tv Morning Joe MSNBC January 29, 2021 3:00am-6:00am PST
there's evidence. that's why i think you will continue to see more of this. >> all right. jim, always a smart conversation. thank you so much for being up early with us. we really appreciate it. after everything we just talked about with jim, we may be getting some snow here. i'm going to focus on taking my toddler out for a fun weekend in the snow if we get it. i need to set this week aside. hope you can get some time with your families too. thank you for getting up "way too early". don't go anywhere. "morning joe" starts right now. i've gone from not understanding the stock market to extra not understanding the stock market. experts are saying the stock market is now in the world's first ever meme stock bubble. it sounds like the worst musical festival. luckily, none of this affects me. as you know, all my money is securely invested in beanie
babies. >> the game stop frenzy continues with backlash against robin hood for redistricting amateur trading. good morning and welcome to "morning joe". restricting. it is friday, january 29th. with us we have white house reporter for "the asci press", jonathan lemire, michael steele, and former aide to the george w. bush white house elise jordan, msnbc analyst as well. so we will get to the latest in game stop. that story ahead. plus, a full year into the fight against covid. and we're learning troubling details about the pandemic. a federal investigation found that u.s. officials who greeted american evacuees from wuhan did not have training in infectious disease control and were told
not to wear masks. that's according to the "washington post". the state's attorney general is investigating why the cuomo administration failed to report 3,800 hospital deaths as being linked to nursing homes, an undercount of 40%. we've got details on both of those stories coming up on "morning joe". but we begin with lawmakers continuing to fear for their safety as ongoing security threats at the u.s. capitol continue to surface. d.c. police arrested a 71 west virginia man at the capitol yesterday with a gun, 20 rounds of ammunition, and stop the steal paperwork in his car. court documents show that dennis westover allegedly told police that he was, quote, concerned about the honesty and integrity of the election. he was charged with carrying a gun without a license. possession of unregistered
ammunition and unlawful firearm. they warn they are easy, quote targets as personal information, including their home addresses and event skrepblgs are all public. they are asking for increased funds to this year's member representational allowance citing increased threat level. and the acting chief of the u.s. capitol police is calling for permanent fencing around the capitol building and is requesting availability of ready backup forces in close proximity to the capitol, something that wasn't there january 6th. but a fence won't keep out those who are already allowed into the building. here's house speaker nancy pelosi speaking yesterday.
>> what exactly did you mean when you said the enemy is within? >> we have members that want to bring guns on the floor and have threatened other members of congress with violence. >> what i'm concerned about is the republican leadership in the house of representatives who is willing to overlook, ignore those statements, assigning her to the education committee when she has mocked the killing of little children at sandy hook elementary school. when she has mocked the killing of teenagers in high school at the marjory stoneman douglas high school. what could they be thinking, or thinking too generous a word, for what they might be doing. it's absolutely appalling. >> when speaker pelosi was referring to is the recent
outcry congresswoman marjorie taylor greene faced after video surfaced of her following and harassing david hogg, the gun safety activist who survived a massacre at his high school in parkland, florida. >> you are using your lobby and the money behind it and the kids to try to take away my second amendment rights. how did you get over 30 appointments with senators? how did you do that? school zones are protected by security guards with zones there would be no. he's a coward. he can't say one word because he can't defend his stance. >> a coward who was in a school shooting. and, again, this person actually said that that was a hoax.
that parkland was a hope. that it was a false flag. that it was a hoax. mika, we have talked to so many -- the parents who have endured the worst pain any parent can endure. >> this is not just a one situation deal here. >> no, it's not. >> she suggested that 2017, the shooting in las vegas, the deadliest in the country's history targeted a mostly conservative audience of country music fans since it was part of a plot from gun control activists. greene has also written in log posts the pizza gate conspiracy theory which claimed there was a satanic child sex trafficking ring at a washington pizzeria restaurant might be real. and greene said the deadly white supremacist rally in charlottesville that year was an inside job to further the agenda
of the elites. greene has also claimed that a plane never crashed into the pentagon on 9/11 and said that former president barack obama is a muslim. and then downed power lines was the cause of the deadliest wildfire two years ago when the camp fire killed people. marjorie taylor greene reportedly wrote in a facebook post, quote, there are all these people who saw what they said looked like laysers or blue beams of light causing the fires and pictures of videos. that according to a screen shot of that post was shared by liberal meeting media matters. the post also also falsely speculated that pacific gas and electric and then governor jerry brown were involved in causing the fire.
and the 77 mile rail is to be built. she has lots of videos about january 6th, joe, where she is getting ready for the big insurrection. she did a video at the white house. >> yeah. we haven't even gone to those yet, which are the most relevant to what nancy pelosi said. she had a video at the white house talking about whipping people up for january the 6th. we have her ad where she is holding an ar-15 and has three women of color, what a coincidence that is, that are members of congress she is going to target, that she is coming after.
that obviously causes grave concern. and jim, there's all the likes on the posts talking about putting a bullet in nancy pelosi's head. she also of course talked about the lynching of barack obama and another president, i believe it was. and she said -- told everybody they needed to just stay calm, that people were being put in place. and it was going to happen. yeah. the lynching of barack obama and hillary clinton. and said it was all going to be put in place very carefully. and this is the person now the republican congress. nancy pelosi said yesterday in front of the cameras a lot of republicans are now saying
privately behind cameras and they're trying to figure out exactly why kevin mccarthy supported her election to the united states house. and now they don't feel safe. >> i mean, there's parallels with how they handled donald trump. he we reported that steve scalise, warned she's radioactive, dangerous, that she said all kinds of crazy thing and she could tear apart the party if elected. they did nothing. why? because a lot of the base likes this stuff. people on twitter hate when we talk about trump and how he will loom large over the party. i'm sorry, he is. whatever moment there was where there was self-reflection and how the party might change passed in three days. now mccarthy going to kiss his boot in florida yesterday.
or defending members like her now. if you listen to conservative media, it didn't even matter if trump were to run again. big media, big business, big government. they are trying to shut you down, shut you up. and they say it over and over again. what happens when people say that to you? it's not a small academic matter about the size of tax cuts. it goes to your very being. you feel like someone is attacking you. it's a call to arms. it becomes visceral. when things are that visceral, that's why the department of homeland security is saying it could fuel attacks on members of congress who now -- you worked up there. you have to be able to go through a magnet to make sure you're not bringing a gun to the
floor. you have to go through a fence on the outside. you have to pay attention to it. it's not getting better. in fact, ben shapiro and others are telling us it's going to get worse. if it gets worse bad things like what happened at the capitol can happen again. dry kindling is as dry as ever and a lot of people are trying to spark it. >> when i was up there, when you were up there reporting, jim, if a member of either party had done one-tenth of these things had been holding an ar 15, had liked or endorsed the call to assassinate a speaker of the house, either party would have gone to the floor immediately, would have stripped them of their committees and expelled them from congress. the fact that we're still even talking about this is crazy.
and you're exactly right. this whole cancel culture, people saying they're being canceled while they're speaking to millions and millions, people saying they're canceled while they're writing front page editorials for "the new york post", one of the stupidest headlines and one of the stupidest covers of the new york post in quite some time. they put tape over josh hawley's mouth and give him the front page with him talking about how he's being silenced. it's such rank horse you know what. and your you're right, they say this to stupid people long enough. i didn't think stupid people were going to really believe at the end of the day the preposterous lies they were told leading up to january 6th. stupid people believed that. they're not deplorables. but they're stupid people if
they constantly choose to ignore reality, the truth. if they see trump judges, trump officials saying, no, this was a fair election over and over again, trump federal judge in pennsylvania saying this was a fair election. a trump federal judge all across the northeast and michigan, trump judges everywhere. bill bar. like, you know, secretaries of state in georgia, brian kemp, the boot licker of donald trump before the election was done. if they're stupid -- they can't believe this. they're not that stupid. now you have all of these other conspiracy theories that are going. you know, michael steele, i hate to just boil it all down to politics, but this stuff doesn't work in the long run. they lost the house.
they lost the senate. they lost the white house over the past four years. they lost a hell of a lot of legislative seats across the nation. of course when they went full-on crazy after the election, they lost georgia. like they lost two senate seats in georgia to, as i've said, one of the guys looked like an extra in the movie "reds." a guy who would never win that state, win a race statewide. but they did it because the republicans. and this continues. do they really think giving this woman a committee seat while trying to go after liz cheney is their future? if so, man, things are going to get a lot worse for them electorally fast. . >> well, you just set up the real dynamic and the real challenge which is a huge
problem. people need to take apart of what jim just said because it is real. it is deep. a lot of us would be surprised to hear and see, you know, begin to realize oh, my gosh, these folks over here really think this. so you have two things that are setting up for the gop right now. you've got this cultural/victimhood piece that everyone is after them. and the conspiracies and all of those wild theories. then you have the political piece where that also gets played out. because the rest of the country is looking at this and saying you guys are crazy as hell. no, i'm not electing you. i'm not giving you the keys to the white house and the congress and the courts.
and so it's going to be very, very hard to make the case to the american people that we have ideas that matter when they look around and see qanon crazy. they look around and see, wait a minute, you are stoking senator hawley, or senator cruz, jim jordan. you are stalking and pushing out insurrection. how they square that will be their political misfortune going forward. marjorie taylor greene, countless videos of her using foul language, language you would be fired from any job from using. let's take a look at her campaign ad and go from there.
why would republicans want to continue in this direction. her campaign ad here. i don't know if you can see. she is holding --. >> an ar-15. >> yeah. and you see three members of congress in the direction of the ar-15. are you kidding me? i don't have the words. but how could they have quite frankly the appetite for somebody like this to be in under midst. . >> marjorie taylor greene isn't a person you would want to house-sit for you, babysit for you. the things that are coming out of her mouth are absolutely and completely insane. and what i don't understand, there were so many republican member who cowered, republican leaders who cower cooed at donald trump. and they were so petrified of donald trump. and he had a big megaphone. he did have a lot of power. i just don't understand why this
freshman congresswoman is someone that they seem to be cowering from doing anything to. instead, they put her on the education committee. i don't understand why she has any committee assignments. i don't understand why the leadership just is so incredibly powerless when it's one lone congresswoman in a very, very safe seat. . >> yeah. that they were actually warned, jonathan lemire, time and time again. warned about by people high up. look at this advertisement, woman carrying an ar-15 saying that she is going to be -- carrying the ar-15 in the direction of their images, saying that she is going to be these three members of congress's worst nightmares. and she's put on the education
committee by kevin mccarthy. who has mishandled this situation from the very beginning. there are people on the house floor who fear for their life. as i said yesterday, yes, the predominant number of unhinged people right now appear to be on the far trump right. but ask steve scalise whether there aren't unhinged people on the far left as well. talk about kindling fire, this starts the fire. and this brings crazies out all over the place who may not be ideological. they may just be anarchists. they may just be nilists. they may just want to kill members of congress. and this, kevin mccarthy, you're going down to talk to donald trump. you're talking about targeting liz cheney, trying to punish liz
cheney and letting someone who is literally targeting three members of the united states congress in her ads. you're giving her an education committee assignment. jonathan lemire, this is -- preposterous is not the correct word. this is dangerous. in light of january 6th, it's untenable. >> it's deeply dangerous, joe. that's precisely it. it is violent rhetoric. we know we have seen how much of this country right now is ready to explode and ripe and willing and ready to listen to conspiracy theories that endorse violence. pizza gate qanon among them. we have the freshman congresswoman from colorado who tweeted at david hogg yesterday. this is a feature for part of
the republican party. and we saw yesterday sort of another sign and infection point if you will about the hold that trump still has on the republican party. matt gaetz traveled to wyoming to campaign against liz cheney in her home state and had a crowd of about 1,000 people. and the photograph of kevin mccarthy, trying to mend fences there, after the two men had an exchange when mccarthy finally put some blame at trump's feet for the january 6th insurrection. he read the room here. in the republican party right now he knows he needs president trump's blessing. he needs donald trump's blessing if he wants to be speaker in 2022 if republicans are able to maintain the house. you are right. there are widespread ramifications. these are the images they want to put out there to be a
national party. but we shouldn't lose sight of the fact of this. i was in the white house most of the week talking to biden officials behind the scenes. the popular vote is about 7 million. that's a comfortable victory. in the swing states that decided this thing, it was still pretty close. almost to a person that i talked to in the biden white house, certainly if the pandemic had not happened or if trump had been a little more responsible, a little more somber and sober about it, you know, that he would have still have been a tough candidate to beat. it speaks to the true divided nature of this country right now and how the smallest spark could set off another explosion. >> all right. well, this is how high tensions are and how much lawmakers are still reeling from the attack on the capitol. yesterday democratic congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez tweeted about the
game stop story saying robin hood's decision to block retailers investors was unacceptable. republican senator ted cruz said he fully agreed with her stance. but she wants nothing to do with him. i'm happy to work on republicans on this issue where there is common ground. you almost had me murdered three weeks ago so you can sit this one out. happy to work with almost any other gop that aren't trying the get me killed. in the meant if you want to help, you can resign. so michael steele, i think that's kind of a fair response. i think twitter is a place where people are lobbing pot shots at each other. it's not helpful, honestly. but it was ted cruz trying to weasel his way back in after being an insurrectionist and
inciting a mob, a mob that murdered. no thank you. since twitter can't control these people, since twitter has no sense of responsibility as to what shows up and who shows up on their platform, i guess alexandria ocasio-cortez has to stand up for yourself. >> she had to clear the decks and make it clear across the spectrum. no, you can sit this one out. thank you very much. and what you are going to see, and it's already begun, and joe have talked about it and others have reported on it, you know, the backstroke. okay. well, that was then and this is no. no, we really, really weren't involved in that little thing that happened january 6th. so they want people to forget. so we want to go to business as usual. given the reporting that's out there. given what we were just talking about. given the actions of the likes of kevin mccarthy, as everyone has appropriately referred to as going to kiss the boot of donald
trump, blame the congresswoman for saying you know what, i really don't want to do this one with you because you are a threat to me. and you have shown that by your words and your incitements. in some cases members of your party and their actions. we put up a poster of a congresswoman with ocasio-cortez's face on it. unless you want to take that down and be a part of not associating with that ted cruz, how can i take working with you any other way that hostile? and just think about it. in any normal work environment, if you have a fellow employee who was threatening you and threatening other employees, you would be very hesitant to get that close to them in a work space to work through big issues. regardless of what they are. so we're going to see the gop
try to spin this two ways. you know, keep close to trump and keep that fettered base just stirred up. at the same time, to the rest of the country saying we'll just do business as usual. we want to do what joe biden is talking about, unity. and we want to do, you know, what former congressman scarborough used to say. it's not believable. and that's their problem. >> no way. no way. >> jim, you think the republicans would know better than anybody what one or two members of congress can do for the other side in elections. we had so many people coming up to us defending their support for donald trump despite he is a horrible human being, i would never have him at my house, he's despicable. but if he loses and aoc is going to be running the white house
with joe biden. omar will be running the white house. you know, it's -- i think it's preposterous that unless something really horrific is done, the back benchers get so much time and so much attention because they don't -- they usually don't have that much of an impact. here you have a woman that obviously, because it appears she's been calling for the murder of members of congress and then applauding the others who have called for the murder of members of congress and murder of former presidents and secretaries of state, obviously that is going to draw. and it should draw a lot of attention. and that's going to be tofpd attached to every republican that runs for office over the next two years. why wouldn't they censure her or strip her of her committee
assignments? why wouldn't they expel her? it's not like -- it's not like in doug collins' old district, you're not going to find something that is a rock-ribbed conservative active that is going to represent that district. fear. that's it. fear. they feel there will be a backlash. they feel the base, when looking at their constituents are having, a lot of people they feel are closer to her than they might be to him. why did john boehner leave? why does kevin mccarthy think he has the worst job in american politics? it's hard when all the rank and file members believe some of this stuff. >> jim, let me stop you there for one second. just for one second. you say the base. there is -- i still believe, a republican base that is somewhat conservative. yes, they are radical.
there are some of those people out there. this congresswoman's base is qanon. now, are you saying that qanon base has spread -- has become so widespread that that now is the republican base? >> i'm saying a big chunk of the base might not believe qanon but they believe a lot of these conspiracy theories. there are more of those people than there are dick cheney, liz cheney republicans. again, go to wyoming. look at the coverage some wyoming. it is almost impossible that reporters are going there to even defend liz cheney. a lot you could probably find a lot of people that would defend the congresswoman. trump fomented a lot of this. to be honest, they don't know what to do. they don't want to deal with this stuff every day. they would lookic to oust her.
members of congress, leadership are often never profiles in courage. they do what would give them self-preservation. all kevin mccarthy is thinking about is how do i become house speaker in 2025. i have to go to mar-a-lago, talk to trump, talk to him like i don't think he's crazy. that's the mentality that's driving it. that's why they tolerate this. liz cheney up to be the number three republican in the house in leadership. i wouldn't be surprised if there is a vote and it's secret ballot and they oust her. the party is on fire right now. the idea that liz cheney, dick chain requesty, paul ryan faction has really swat, they don't -- why did rob portman say i'm getting out of town? he's a serious guy that wants to legislate and do what you say you want to have done.
he said if i run i have to either act crazy, tolerate crazy, be crazy or get crushed. that's the calculation that so many of these members have to make. i think there's a majority in the congressional districts. crack pots and goof balls have been elected in the history of the country. it's not that new. if you're in a place that has been jerry manned erred the right way, almost anybody can win if they get through the primary. >> yeah. again -- jim -- i understand what jim is saying, and i agree with it. if you're a republican and you want to win general elections, this further peels off support from republicans.
from former republicans who look at what happened in georgia. they still can't believe they lost that race. those two races. what happened was pretty clear. you had black voters consolidate their support and white suburban voters, hispanic suburban voters, black suburban voters, asian american suburban voters who used to vote republican who said, eh, i'm checked out. i'm not going to vote for a party that is going to be run by conspiracy theories. they lose georgia, they lose the senate. start multipling that across the country and other swing states. and this is a road to nowhere for republicans. i'm not saying that with any joy. i'm not saying that with any angst. i'm just saying this is the road to nowhere.
we're a 50/50 country. georgia proved you can't peel off 2%, 3%, 4% of your supporters because you're so crazy. so now we're going to the next step of crazy here with republicans in the house. do they want to peel off another 2%, 3% of that vote? because it will politically be toxic and will lead to them staying in the minority for the rest of their lives. >> i don't get it. we'll see. co founder and ceo of "axios" jim srapbd high, thank you very much for being on this morning. let's get to the latest with game stop and other surging stocks backed by reddit users. brokerage firms are restricting trading in these shares. robin hood, td ameritrade, interactive brokers group all made the decision yesterday to limit activity on these stocks. only allowing traders who were hoping to capitalize on the
gains with two options, hold or sell. however, hedge funds were still able to make moves on these stocks. this caused a dip in shares for the high-flying stocks. gamestop dropped 44%. amc down 57%. and other targets of wall street bets, nokia, blackberry, bad bath and beyond and tootsy all posted losses. >> these platforms better call their lawyers. >> these moves ignited widespread criticism and a group of individual investors filed a class-action complaint against robin hood yesterday claiming that the platform deprived their customers of the ability to use their service as well as potential gains from trading for no legitimate reasons. robin hood needed to emergency fund raise to support activity
and will allow limited buys on reddit stocks today. >> let's bring in columnist and business insider and host of can kcrw left right and center. josh, i'm justation dumb country lawyer. but one of the platforms said, hey, listen, we think we're going to rig the market. we're not going to let so-and-so buy. i say, hey, you know what, i can't help you here that much. i can just tell you that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard. they put themselves in some problems. let's see if this whole thing from 30,000 feet. i think this is the stupidest thing i have ever heard. a lot of good people decided they're going to play in the market. and at the end of the day, the valuations for game stop and the valuations for amc will be the valuations. again, i don't know a whole lot about the market. that's why you are here.
it seems they're going to lose their money. in the words of the old 1970s song what goes up must come down. it's going to come down hard, isn't it, josh? >> yeah. yeah. i mean, some of those people who are upset they weren't able to trade yesterday may have saved them a lot of money in the end. to give you a sense, gamestop, there was a dispute among investors for a substantial period. sit a retailer of video games, brick and mortar. it is a declining business. that activity shifted online. people more download things. the stock was performing poorly. they thought this was going to continue and continue to decline. another story about gamestop they could pivot somewhat and become an online player. but it was beaten up too much. where the stock is now, $400 a share, that makes it worth about as much as best buy. they have five times as many
sales, three times more employees. it made a billion and a half dollars. game stop lost $400 million. so these valuations are completely untethered from anything actually to do with the company. it's a frenzy, a fad. yes, your instinct is correct. what goes up in the long run, the market doesn't price things perfectly. game stop should not have gone up by a factor of a hundred based on that sort of analysis. what happens with brokerage firms that cut off trading, they are facing issues with the firms that close the stock transactions. it takes a few days when it moves in the pipe and when shares move around. if you have an order to buy game stop and you find out you don't have enough money, in a normal situation, that's fine. you find somebody else to buy
the stock. here the concern is two days from now the share price will be way lower than it is and the clearing firm will not pay somebody else to pay the price you did. so they are going to robin hood and other brokerages and say handling these trades is risky. they are facing a real logistical issue. the money robin hood raised should help pay for that and have a more reliable service. the reason the clearing firms are so nervous about this are reasons investors should be so nervous about this. it doesn't make sense that they are trading $400 a share or even $100 a share. i think people are bored from the pandemic. the stock market has done great. bitcoin is up strapblly since the spring. if you were sitting at home, you continued to receive your salary, you had extra money because you weren't going to
restaurants, you weren't traveling and you thought maybe i should go into the stock market, you have probably done well the last nine months. people get into the frenzies and make money. that is not how it will work in the long run. . >> approximate i don't think so. i'm not a better, but i would think you have a better chance betting on the super bowl than game stop and amc. neither one of those companies are going to see those valuations. can i ask you one other question. i saw you tweeted about it. >> yeah. >> the story gets dumber by the day. the san francisco school board decided that they were going to take cancel culture to a new extreme and decided that abraham lincoln and dianne feinstein were two, too, racist to have schools named after them.
this morning we get additional word that willie brown had his name stripped from a school because of his efforts in gentrification of san francisco, which leads to the question, were any of these people in san francisco when willie brown was mayor there? . >> it's so insane. and the mayor, london breed, has been talking repeatedly how insane this is. the schools in san francisco are not open. the school board spent seven hours changing any name that anybody possibly raised any offense too, including abe lincoln, george washington, dianne feinstein. it is political correctness run amok. when the school system faces such a crisis and needs to be focus using on how can we safely reopen the schools, it is
ridiculous even by standards of san francisco politics. but the mayor doesn't run the schools. it's up to the people in the city who want to decide do we want a school board focused on education or stupid outrages like this. but so far, you know, a few months ago an advisory board was recommending this. and i thought the school board hasn't voted on it and are they really going with this? and the answer to that is yes. >> it was a 6-1 vote. in the middle of covid when they have so many things are worried about and they are worried about abraham lincoln. >> and the one no vote said give all the schools numbers. like in new york. they are numbered and also named in new york because it's not -- we to the floor a numbering system so number is offended by any possible name on a school. even the one member of the board that voted against had a
different proposal how to deal with the fact that people are offended by names. >> where do they find these people? >> josh, thank you very much. still ahead on "morning joe", the biden administration continues efforts to ramp up coronavirus vaccinations. and now fema is requested help from the department of defense. plus, the latest on the unrest in russia after a court rejected an appeal by opposition leader alexei navalny for his release from jail. you're watching "morning joe". we'll be right back. ♪ ♪
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that radicalize people. we saw that during the like lives matter marches when there was an assassination of a federal agent in oakland. what we found out was a bugaloo boy that had been radicalized, went out and assassinated that person, that law enforcement officer, hoping of course to have it blamed on the protests. but then there was an investigation into facebook and its practices. and sure enough, they would get people and push them towards these radical violent groups. their algorithms, actually, they figured out that it helped them make more money. helped them make more billions. they have been -- history will bear this out, by the way. >> yeah. >> i don't know anybody at facebook. i have no reason to like or
dislike anybody at facebook other than the fact they have had as big a role in destroying american democracy as any corporation over the past four years, over the past 40 years. no business has spread more lies about the pandemic. no business has spread more lies about politics. no business has spread more lives about american democrat say. no business has spread more lies about voting. than has facebook. over 50% of americans say they get their news from facebook. facebook needs to be regulated. they need to be regulated like cable networks are regulated. they need to be regulated. but more important than that, they need to be thrown into the free market system. all right. no more socialism for zuckerberg. no more protection for facebook.
they need to be thrown into the free market system. they're a monday nonly. they need to be broken up. they know they are a monday oply. everybody on the hill and the white house knows they're a monday oply. break them up. that's what we did with the bells in the 1970s. one company didn't own a telephone. we broke up the bells. 20 years later we have cell phones. we can choose our own plans. facebook is monopoly. they are reckless. there is no accountability. they are destroying not just american democracy, they are destroying democracy across the globe. they are actually working with
tyrannical governments. they are a malignant force across the globe. yesterday tim cook who runs apple said this. in a moment of rampant disinformation and conspiracy theories juiced by algorithms -- and this relates to everything we have been saying last 30 minutes. facebook is spreading these lies that get cops killed! facebook has been spreading these lies that gets the united states capitol sacked. facebook has been spreading these lies that get police officers bludgeoned almost to death with an american flag. they spread the lies. they spread the lies during the pandemic. if you have a neighbor that thinks masks spread covid, thank
facebook for that. if you go into a store and somebody is crazy and they're like ripping up a display for masks that working class people are going to have to -- thank facebook for that. the lies are all disseminated on facebook. and this is what tim cook said yesterday. at a moment of rampant disinformation and conspiracy theories juiced by algorithms, which of course created by facebook for their site, we can no longer turn a blind eye to a theory of technology that says all engagement is good and the longer the better. this is what tim cook says. friends, let me just tell you something right now. people that work in silicon valley, they don't let their children on phones. they don't give them the screen time that the rest of us give screen time to our children. why?
because they know that it's garbage in, garbage out. so i'm glad tim told the truth about facebook. and i challenge the biden administration. i challenge republicans and democrats on the hill. you better reform this company before they completely break america. you better, if not strip them of their 230 immunity, you better reform it like hell and hold them accountable as publishers just like you hold the "new york times", "the wall street journal", and local newspapers. you better do it. you will look back and it will be too late. facebook is turned into a monster. and the old rules when it comes to antitrust does not apply to
facebook, does not apply to other tech companies. this reminds me so much of what was happening in the lead up to the 2008 crash where people just kept looking, wait, are these credit defaults in i don't get it. they must be smart. no! no! the big banks didn't know what they were doing other than trying to make as much money as possible. and when the crash came, it was working class americans whose lives were ruined. you let the banks on wall street self-regulate. and it damn near killed our economy. and you've been letting facebook self-regulate for almost two decades now. it's time to stop. this should be an issue republicans and democrats both agree on. i say get rid of 230.
you say we need 230. okay. we'll reform it in such a way that it can't be used to spread disinformation and lies about people. i've got to be able to sue facebook. you've got to be able to sue facebook. let's not put them up on a mountain top anymore saying they're beyond the rest of us. that this monopoly cannot be touched. that this monopoly cannot be broken into pieces. that this monopoly cannot continue to stop small businesses from entering into the market because they are anti competitive. they are anti democratic. they are bad for america. we'll be right back. th aeyre bad for america we'll be right back. er in every zip code? add an employee. or ten... then easily and automatically pay your team and file payroll taxes. that means... world domination! or just the west side. run payroll in less than five minutes with intuit quickbooks.
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just a minute before the top of the hour, 7:00 on the east coast here on "morning joe". a lot to get to this hour. joe, we want to bring in the president of the counsel on foreign relations and author of the book "the world." a brief introduction. >> chiefs or bucs next week? >> chiefs. not even close. richard, i want you to discuss. i'm glad you're there and mika is here. you say i'm hard-pressed to think of another venue less suited than the u.s. senate to judgment impeachment at this time. too much remains unknown. several senators may have become complicit and politics not law
will be paramount. all of which means trump will get off regardless. explain. >> we all grew up hearing it is the most deliberate body. guess what, it's not. there is no chance 17 republicans will peel away and find donald trump guilty of what he did. so you have to -- play chess here. is it good this happens, he gets off when he shouldn't get off? i think not. it will potentially fuel his political return. what i would say is pursue this in the courts. pursue this through congressional hearings. pursue this through the ballot box ultimately, pursue this maybe through censure. but essentially those who want impeachment -- i understand why. it is not about the merits. but you have chosen the one venue in all of america which is loaded. and the playing field isn't even close to being level. so i just don't understand why there's going to be -- you're
not going to get satisfaction going down this path. >> yeah. and following up on richard's point, a lot of people may wonder why give donald trump a victory? he's lost time and time again since november. why give him this victory where he can run around and say i beat the wrap twice. two times they tried to impeach me and they lost both times. i am vindicated again. >> yeah. he will do that. there's no doubt about it. that is part of the calculation that many of the senate republicans who are standing pat with donald trump have made. but the reality that we as citizens and as a free people and republic have to contend with is accountability. how else do you hold him accountable? there are probably other avenues. you could have censured. you could have said other things. but you have to meet the measure of the offense. so given the evidence that's out
there, it really pressed the point that as a country we had to respond. we have to respond in the strongest terms possible. and, look, a part of this whole narrative we have been talking about the last hour, joe, is around this idea of dee constructing the administrative state, which is exactly the game plan that the president had when he came into office. and it continues unabated. so at some point we have to decide whether these institutions that richard was just talking about and the processes that we all know that are out there to deal with this, whether or not they have the strength to do that. and if they do, then we as citizens have to back them up. yeah. we may not like the outcome from what happens when this vote goes down in the senate. but as citizens, we still have the power to hold the men and women who cast that vote accountable. if it's inconsistent with the
values set we have decided is most important. >> all right. michael steele, thank you so much for being on with us this morning. we want to move on to navalny. he appeared in court via video link from prison. he was denied release. he is currently held under fraud and money laundering charges which he said are politically motivated. meanwhile, russian authorities detained several allies of navalny and even warned social media companies about protests in support of him. last week, tens of thousands of russians demonstrated across the country reflecting the growing opposition to russian president vladimir putin. elise jordan, i'll let you take the next question to richard haass. but what a story surrounding not just navalny himself, his
heroism, but the people of russia rising up. >> and, richard, i'm just curious how you see this evolving and how the biden administration is going -- what kind of challenge it presents to the biden administration? and it's a little bit surprising that vladimir putin is being so bold and so -- and cracking down so forcefully when there is a new cop in town when it comes to the united states. >> well, i think what's going to happen on the ground is navalny is going to stay in jail. people will come out this sunday, maybe the sunday after this. but sooner other later what i'm worried about is authorities will grind down the opposition through brutality and through arrests and unlimited detention and rigged trials. putin -- what's so interesting is the scale of these protests across the country, how many people are so brave, putin is
increasingly unpopular. there is no real economy. the pandemic is having a real effect. but so long as security forces stand by the state, it state is going to prevail. for the biden administration, it's difficult. we don't have a lot of tools. plus, one of the priorities is to extend the soon-to-expire nuclear arms agreement, the so-called new start agreement. we have other concerns. ukraine, the middle east, what have you. we can use our voice. we can use sanctions. but at the end of the day, putin is going to absorb whatever price we mete out. at the end of the day, what vladimir putin cares about is his own position, his own power, his own wealth. he will pay an enormous price from us or anyone else in order to retain power. . >> richard, we of course are hearing an awful lot of variants of the coronavirus. so obviously it's important not only that americans get vaccinated but also people
across the globe get vaccinated. i want to ask you how that best gets done globally. but before i do, we heard something earlier this week from a member of the world health organization, a leader of the world health organization acting ignorant as to where this began. oh, i really don't know if this began in wuhan or china. we're going to have to do some more research. it seems to me they are playing really into their critics' worst instincts. what's going on there? and is the world health organization captive to china the way trump supporters have long said it is? >> well, they are clearly unwilling to take china on. china is a powerful sovereign country. they, among other things, have a big say over the personnel and funding of the world health organization. china is not allowing the world health organization the access it needs to determine exactly where and how this began. my hunch is, joe, we may never
find out exactly how and where -- we know it was china. we know it was wuhan. whether it happened from animals or came out of this government lab, we don't know. china is clearly hiding something. but i don't see the world health organization having the strength or the backbone to ultimately stand up to it. and it raises real questions do we need something else. >> yeah. richard, are they a health organization or political organization? again, they seem -- everybody freaked out when we were removed from the world health organization. now the world health organization is acting in such a way i think we will hear another round of that. they can't stand up to china when china was responsible for letting this virus loose on the world? i'm deeply, deeply confused that these people get funding and they still can't tell us what we
already know, that this virus began in china? >> well, what can i tell you? the world health organization does some good things. on the other hand, it is also flawed. like any other international organization, it is not able to stand up to the powerful countries on the u.n. security council who essentially control its fate. so you've got to say, do we live with it, does some good. it is also flawed. what do we do to compensate for flawed? my answer to you, joe, is we probably need to see the creation of an independent organization to be somewhat of a global health watch dog. that way the w.h.o. does what it can with governments that are willing to cooperate. but before it can't step, we need something much more powerful and independent. >> okay. >> richard haass, thank you very much for being on this morning. we will see you again soon. we turn now to the continued aftermath of the january 6th
attack on the capitol with lawmakers continuing to fear for their safety. d.c. police arrested a 71-year-old west virginia man neither capitol yesterday with a gun, 20 rounds of ammunition, and stop the steal paperwork in his car. court documents show that dennis westover allegedly told police he was, quote, concerned about the honesty and integrity of the election. he was charged with carrying a gun without a license, possession of unregistered ammunition, and unlawful possession of a firearm according to an incident report obtained by nbc news. and now the acting chief of the u.s. capitol police is calling for permanent fencing around the capitol building. a fence won't keep out those who are already allowed in the building. here is house speaker nancy pelosi speaking yesterday. >> what exactly did you mean when you said the enemy is
within? what exactly -- >> it means that we have members of congress who want to bring guns on the floor and that have threatened violence on other members of congress. >> what i'm concerned about is the republican leadership in the house of representatives who are willing to overlook, ignore those statements assigning her to the education committee when she has mocked the killing of little children at sandy hook elementary school, when she has mocked the killing of teenagers in high school at the marjory stoneman douglas high school. what could they -- >> what speaker was referring to is the recent outcry congresswoman marjorie taylor
greene. david hogg, who survived a massacre at his high school in parkland, florida. >> i'm a gun owner. i have a concealed carry permit. i carry a gun for protection for myself. and you are using your lobby and the money behind it and the kids to try to take away my second amendment rights. how did you get over 30 appointments with senators? how did you do that? school zones are protected with security zones about guns there would be no mass shootings. and he's a coward. he can't say one word because he can't stand his offense. >> he is a kid who survived a massacre -- >> full stop. >> at his high school. . >> full stop. >> the cruelty is extraordinary. and it is now becoming not the bug but the feature of donald trump's republican party. the cruelty is extraordinary.
>> greene has repeated claimed that parkland and sandy hook shootings were false flag events. >> what she is saying the parents of sandy hook are lying about their 5-year-olds and 6-year-olds being slaughtered. >> greene has also suggested the 2017 shooting in las vegas, the deadliest in this country's history targeted a mostly conservative audience of country music fans since it was part of a plot from gun control activists. greene has written in blog posts that the debunked pizza gate conspiracy theory which claimed there was a satanic child sex trafficking ring at a washington pizza restaurant might be real. and in 2017 a blog post she said the deadly white supremacist rally held in charlottesville that year was an inside job to further the agenda of the
elites. greene has also claimed that a plane never crashed into the pentagon on 9/11 and said that former president barack obama is a muslim. and back in september in facebook, facebook actually removed this photo that greene posted of her holding a rifle next to photos of three congresswomen of color, two muslims claiming she is the squad's worst nightmare. >> just look at that. those duly elected members of congress have to go to work every day with someone that is holding an ar-15 and calling herself the squad's worst nightmare. with a gun aimed in the direction of their images. just think about where we are in
2021 and why a fence perimeter around the capitol will not protect members from possible murders inside the capitol. >> and here is marjorie taylor greene outside the white house. she also helped fan the flames ahead of the capitol insurrection tweeting in part, donald trump deserves his day in court. and we are definitely going to give him his day in congress. we have a rapidly growing group of house members and senators. january 6 challenge is on. this tweet came with a video. take a look. >> just finished with our meetings here at the white house this afternoon. we had a great planning session for our january 6 objection. we aren't going to let this election be stolen by joe biden and the democrats. president trump won by a landslide. call your house reps. call your senators from your states. we've got to make sure they're on board. and we already have a lot of
people engaged. okay. stay tuned. >> and there are her social media posts that we reported on earlier this week. a series of facebook posts where she repeatedly endorsed violence against democratic leaders. cnn reviewed hundreds of her facebook posts and comments from 2018 and 2019 before she was elected to congress. the review found that greene frequently posted what cnn categorized as far right extremist and debunked conspiracy theories on her page. and one post from january of 2019, greene liked a comment that said, quote, a bullet to the head would be quicker to remove house speaker nancy pelosi. in another post from april of 2018, a commenter asked, now do we get to hang them? referring to former president barack obama and hillary clinton. in response, greene wrote, stage is being set. players are being put in place.
>> she said the stage is being set for barack obama and hillary clinton to be hung. the stage is being set and players are being put in place to hang barack obama and hillary clinton. she's saying we must be patient. this will be done perfectly, the hanging of barack obama and hillary clinton. >> on twitter, greene called the cnn report a hit piece, focused on her time before running for political office but did not dispute the authenticity of the post. what more do you need? bring in national affairs analyst of the recount, executive producer of show time's the circus john heilman. and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. republican strategist and msnbc contributor susan dell percenteo, and donnie deutsche is with us as well.
i remember years ago when certain things were being used during a certain campaign that ended up in gunfire and deaths. and we've already seen what has happened at the capitol. i'm confused there are people that don't see the problem here. >> yeah. it's very, very plain to see this. this is not us freaking out. >> with targets all over the place. you had a member of congress, gabby giffords who was gunned down. the debate raged on who was responsible for it. but here we have, john heilman, something pretty direct. a member of congress that kevin mccarthy helped make a member of congress when you had steve scalise and liz cheney warning him she should not come anywhere near congress. but kevin mccarthy supported her for congress. so now here we are.
and kevin mccarthy has quite a few republicans understandably upset about what's going on. and democrats scared out of their minds that they may get gunned down inside of congress, in the halls of congress or back in their home districts. >> just really quickly, in that shooting, six people were killed. the congresswoman was maimed. she survived. >> so the question is, what's the wakeup call for kevin mccarthy? we whrr had january 6th. now you have this woman who we have all of this information where she has called for the assassination of nancy pelosi. she's called for the hanging of barack obama. she's called for the hanging of hillary clinton.
what else does kevin mccarthy need to see to do what they did at least to steve king? >> well, i think you used a phrase just now that is the most important phrase. bug or feature. this is -- you're asking me in some ways the wrong question. kevin mccarthy -- we're focused on marjorie taylor greene.monst. she is just the most extreme symptom of what it is that animates the republican party now. kevin mccarthy is not -- there's not a wakeup call. kevin mccarthy is not just not acting. he's not just tolerating her. he is by not acting and tolerating her, he is embracing her. this is the spirit, the energy of the republican base that kevin mccarthy and other leaders of the republican party, thras the heart and soul they believe
of the republican party. not that everyone is marjorie taylor greene. the political calculus now is that the party needs that energy. they would be repudiating too much of the party. it's not like something is going to happen. january 6th happened. kevin mccarthy got up on the floor and said donald trump was responsible for this. donald trump needs to take responsibility of this. now we are three weeks later, and he's down at mar-a-lago saying embrace donald trump. it's the same thing. this isn't like there's a wakeup call that is going to come. the wakeup call has come. it's been walked past. everything jim said about this is right. that moment has passed. the moment for possible change has not only past it without some reformation or some wakeup call, we all have to change. we have to figure out a way to
get to grips and reform the party. the water is out of control. it's dangerous. there are conspiracy theorists among us, armed insurrectionists among us. they have seen the chasm of hell and said we're going in. we're not going to try to avoid it. we are putting our arms around these people. we're going to put them on committees. kevin mccarthy said he's going to have a conversation with marjorie taylor greene. you know, that conversation is not going to be -- even that admonishment. alexandria ocasio-cortez said i would love to hear what he has to say to her. what he will say quietly is you need to maybe tone it down a little bit. she didn't say this. she said i think he would encourage her. i think he would say you need to tone this down a little bit but all good. all good. this is what the party is now. this is not like some other thing is going to happen.
they recognize this is too large of a part of what makes up the republican party now is represented by these kinds of people. the qanon people, conspiracy theorists, people who animated the insurrection, if not took part directly in it. there would be no republican party without that part of the base. that is kevin mccarthy's understanding. we recognize it for what it is. and that is why so many democrats, almost all of them, and many republicans are scared to death right now to go to work on capitol hill. and will be scared to death. and should be scared to death to go to work on capitol hill for now for the foreseeable future. . >> so donnie deutsche, you're hired to help the republicans fix their brand, build their brand. what would be your advice on marjorie taylor greene? >> let me first ta you can to democrats. the first thing i would do is stop calling her marjorie taylor
greene. give her the name of mtg. just like aoc. look where the party is going. you go, girl. you keep staying out there. you're only one of 535 people in congress. but if i can use you as the poster, this is the republican party. it's not just donald trump. it's marjorie taylor greene. mtg. and this is what your party stands for. that might be great for the base. that might be great in a primary. you are going to lose general election. stick around, young lady. i think you are -- and everybody at home is going, why are we covering oh, some i god, it's disgusting. she's a gift. she is a gift to the democrats. because we will use you just like the republicans used aoc a few years past. joe, you even said it the last hour. i'm going to vote for trump because it's the party of aoc. now the republicans are a party of mtg. you live long, you live strong because you will take down your party in general elections. >> you would think, donnie, that
republicans would understand that they lied to voters and said, oh, if joe biden gets elected that aoc is going to be running the democratic party. aoc doesn't even get the time of day from the speaker of the house who mocks, you know, mocks the green new deal. you know, when she's asked in "60 minutes" interviews about aoc and the progressive caucus, she is like what are you talking about? four people. i'm a progressive. i have been a progressive for years. republicans spread that lie, one of many lies they spread during 2020. but it worked. it stuck. people were stupid enough to come up and tell me they were voting for trump even though they hated him because if biden won, aoc would run the white house. which is like saying i'm going to run the boston red sox next
year. i think the republicans would be smarter than this. but listen to what i just said. republicans were so stupid that they lost both senate seats in georgia. they couldn't help themselves. >> yeah. gene robinson is with us. to donnie's point, i would say i don't see a lot of equivalence between aoc and mtg. but to give her a quick name that everybody turns to. look, i'm at a loss as to how this woman is still in the party and sitting in congress with the way she behaves. this is trump-like. in any other business or industry or local government, she would be kicked out, thrown out the door, possibly thrown in jail. >> absolutely. she is a security threat to the u.s. capitol and to -- not just
the members of congress she works with, by the way. but those thousands of staffers who work on capitol hill in and around the capitol every day. imagine how they must feel with mtg and other radical republicans. carrying weapons onto the floor of the house and carrying weapons elsewhere in the complex. listen to the conversation we're having, the conversation about the physical safety of members of congress inside the u.s. capitol. earlier we were talking about permanent fencing. you know, this is all insane.
it has gone insane. it is living in a different reality that's not real. the election was stolen from him. and they're keeping up this fiction. and they're going to continue with this. they have decided they're going to ride this. and i hope they ride it to their own irrelevance and destruction as, you know, this is who you want as the face of your party, as donnie said, just come on with it. come on with it. >> so susan dell percio, am i being nye avenue that this extremistism is peeling away
supporters from the trump base, from the trump train, from this maddening -- because just looking at some conservative writers who spent the past four years trying to keep their clicks up by being anti-anti-trumpers turned on trump. said he lost the election. said this is anti-american. i could go down the list but i don't want to say their names because they spend so much time cynically being anti-anti-trumpers. but i tend to think this is going to backfire and i tend to think more people will pressure at least republican members of the senate to start being more reality based or else they're going to lose 2022. am i way too optimistic? >> no. i actually think you're spot-on. to donnie's point about mtg, i would call her republican congresswoman greene.
i would label her the face of the republican party and call her republican congresswoman greene. don't give her some nickname people can use. make sure everyone knows this is where the republican party is standing. they have not broken from her. and make no mistake, the reason why kevin mccarthy went down to see donald trump is because he knows he can't raise money in corporate america. he needs the fund-raising help from donald trump and his supporters. that's where he has to go to if he wants to fulfill his dream of becoming majority leader, which he will not. because soon, hopefully very soon, many more members of congress, republicans, will have to show who they are. do you stand with marjorie greene? do you think she should be on the education committee? do you like her ads? they should be asked every day, just like they did with steve king. mitch mcconnell in the senate,
he has one shot at 2020 to taking back majority leader. you have races in georgia coming up. that special election was just until 2022. kelly in arizona. but he also has to defend a lot of seats. like in ohio, wisconsin, north carolina. so what does he need? a lot of money. and he knows he can -- if he looks rationale, he can appeal to the traditional republican donors. so he is trying everything he can to do it. but you have the likes of ted cruz and rand paul who want to fight their own battles. but the republican party needs to be shown for what they are, who they are. and if you stand with these people, that's who you are. and that's the only way frankly you could burn it down enough to start to rebuild. >> so, john heilman, let me, let's look good. i keep trying to break through
to my republican colleagues. i don't want a far left senate. i don't want a far left house. i don't know if our dear loyal viewers know this or not, but i am a conservative. and i am still a conservative. i kind of like things how they are right now. but, john, like, republicans have to look back. i know mitch knows this. they lost a seat in arizona two years ago. kristen sinema. they lost a seat in arizona this year. last year to mark kelly, right? two red, red republican seats they lost because there were just enough republicans who said i'm off the crazy train. you can go to colorado. cory gardner got pounded. why? crazy train. enough people in colorado said
i'm off the crazy train. hickenlooper not always perfect but i'm going to hickenlooper. you can go to georgia. these are two solid republican seats. they lost because suburban voters in northern georgia said i can't just keep voting for republicans. if they're going to get crazier and crazier. and crazy was turned up to 10. and now we have post election, january 6th, a member of congress getting plum committee assignments who has been threatened to kill democrats for years. crank the crazy up to 11. and mitch mcconnell has to know it just keeps getting worse for the republican party. when is somebody inside that chamber going to wake up?
>> well, look, joe, you mentioned him a few times. you and i have had this ongoing discussion from january 6th to now. and mitch mcconnell woke up. we saw mitch mcconnell wake up. he has seen what has been happening. he's looking to 2022. he tried in the way mitch mcconnell does. he sent the clearest signals you could send in how he has handled the impeachment matter. the way to start is to excise donald trump from the party. and he sent the clearest signals he could send on multiple occasions, we started them telling them effectively, begging his republican colleagues in the senate to come along with it and vote to convict donald trump. that would be a symbolic thing but the beginning in mcconnell's mind how to purge donald trump from the party so it can begin the process of getting back where he thinks the -- what the
old mainstream of what -- you might not like it. a lot of people don't like old mainstream republican thinking. that is what mcconnell was doing. he looked up, and the verdict is in. he looked up and said my caucus is not with me. i'm not going to get donald trump convicted. i've read my caucus. i've read public opinion. i have looked over the house. i see where the base of the party is. i waged this battle. again, we can critique with whether he more direct, outspoken. but in the way mitch mcconnell wages battles, he fought the battle. i open the door. i tried to show people out the door. i have read the wind and weather, and i realize the party is not with me. my caucus is not with me. they are not ready to begin this process. if you can't repudiate marjorie taylor greene, you will not reattitude kwraeut donald trump.
it's the same thing. and mcconnell i think he had his wakeup call, joe. he woke up. he's now looked around and taken a realistic assessment of the rest of the party and seen they are not interested in waking up, his colleagues are not. and he thinks there is more political peril waking up than there is in continuing on the path that they're on. that's where the party is now. >> john heilman, thank you very much. we appreciate it. former president trump's impeachment trial is set to get under way the week of february 8th. and the lawyer for an arizona man who took part in the capitol riots said his client is willing to testify. jacob chansley who calls himself the qanon shaman is facing federal charges stemming from the siege. you'll recall he was the shirtless rioter who sported face paint and the horned had.
his lawyer says his he was previously smitten by trump but now feels let down after his refusal to grant chansley and others who participated in the insurrection in a pardon. he felt like he was betrayed by the president. court records show chansley told investigators he came to the capitol, quote, at the request of the president that all patriots come to d.c. january 6th. joining us now state attorney for palm beach county, dave aaronberg. where is the best place for this i guess accountability to be played out? because, you know, political experts will say impeachment won't work. it won't pass through the senate. >> yeah. the tough guy is on a hunger
strike because he wasn't getting organic food in jail. i'll leave it at that. >> oh, yeah. >> as far as accountability, it's going to come probably in a courtroom for the leaders of the insurrection. there will be charges, i believe, for counts of seditious conspiracy, perhaps incitement of insurrection or riot. i don't think it will go to president trump himself because the first amendment offers very broad protection. as for this guy, i know he's disappointed. but, you know, what did you think? president trump is transactional. he wants to know what you can do for him. that's why he pardoned bannon and stone and manafort and flynn. this guy was just an embarrassment. if he showed up at mar-a-lago, he would never be allowed inside the gates, let alone inside his lawn. no surprise he was disappointed. i think the senate trial is not going to go well. it may go well for trump but not america. that is not the best venue to hold the president accountable
in the senate. it's a political decision. and the republican senators have proven time and time again that they are going with trump because trump owns the republican party. . >> dave, you suggested to me that steve bannon who got parred by the president for federal crimes, might well be prosecuted in the state of florida. explain. >> joe, state crimes are proof. build the wall charity, although it was charged by the feds, it is located in panama city beach. it is registered in florida. state prosecutors could conceivably file against bannon for the same conduct for which he was pardoned. plus, federal prosecutors, in my view, could still even file federal charges against bannon because, for some reason, the
pardon of bannon, just like the pardon of manafort and stone were not as broad as michael flynn. they left a lot out. for bannon, it didn't cover all of his crimes. so the feds could still charge the crime of mail and wire fraud, which the feds love to do. whether they will do it is a different matter. i think justice could still be coming for the leaders of maga world. and i think if you're in the mood for justice and the rule of law, perhaps the best is still yet to come. >> all right. dave aronberg, thank you so much for being with us, always. we really appreciate it. now to the latest with the coronavirus. the first known case of the south african variant emerged yesterday in the united states as the country rushes to push vaccination rates to 1 million a day. the variant moved to the united states was first identified in two separate cases in south carolina. both adults in different parts of that state.
the two people do not appear to be linked and have not traveled recently. on wednesday, a i pfizer lab found that both this south african variant and the uk variant only made a small impact against the efficacy against the company's vaccine. the director of the center for infectious disease research and policy professor in the medical school at the university of minnesota, dr. michael osterman. we had troubling news yesterday about some vaccines that weren't quite as effective of the south african variant. what should we be looking for? >> well, first of all, just to make sure that everyone understands, the variants are basically the same coronavirus we have been dealing with. they have just gone through a series of mutations. we are concerned of one of three things, they can be transmitted
more easily to more people. two, they cause more severe disease. or number three, they escape the immune protection of the vaccine or natural disease. it is staring us in the face right now in this country is the uk variant. that's what we expect to see the next 6 to 14 weeks, a major increase in cases. while we are all appreciative that we are not 300,000 cases a day but rather 150,000, which is still an aft no, ma'amicly high base, i think we will see the number of cases build dramatically the next coming weeks. that is because of the first variant. the variant you just talked about, joe, in terms of the issue around the vaccine did in fact, provide troubling data yesterday when a vaccine showed really very good protection against what we would call the garden variety strains of the virus. against the variant in south africa only provided 50%
protection, which is still better than zero but not 100%. >> gene robinson is with us and has a question. >> doctor, is there evidence that the south african variant in particular causes more severe disease, could cause more deaths, or is it strictly a matter of easier transmissibility and more cases? >> well, let me just quickly summarize all three of them that we're most concerned about. the uk variant is -- the real concern is around more serious disease but not escaping the vaccine. the p1 or the one called the brazil variant and the one from south africa appear they may do all three. more transmission, more severe disease, and escape immune protection. we now know all three of these variants are circulated in the united states and it won't be long before we will see much more of the illnesses caused by
these three variantinging happening here in our own backyard. >> susan has a question. >> doctor, right now, like you said, we're going to see more cases come up. you think we're in for a much rougher six weeks than -- or eight weeks than anticipated, peaking after the holidays. my question, without getting political, what funding is needed right now to help states and municipalities? what would you need to see funded and in the government's hands to help people with covid. >>. >> from you know, this is a critical point. and let me just say to kind of set the text and tone for this. we in 24 country are really, really good about pumping the brakes after we have wrapped the car around the tree. what we are going to be doing now is we will be responding to when the case numbers rapidly increase to shutting down
businesses again, you know, the terrible l term, the lockdown, which other countries in europe have had to do in very extensive ways to stop the transmission of the uk variant there. and so we need support for small businesses, for individuals who are without work, to help make this happen. governments need support to carry out both vaccine campaigns, as well as doing testing. so all of these resources are desperately needed. right now the biden plan is our best hope to make our responses as effective as possible out here. we hope congress takes this very seriously and acts on it as quickly as possible. >> all right. dr. michael oster holm, we look forward to hearing from you again. democrats prepare to move forward with president biden's economic aid package. with the plan struggling to win the support from republicans, will democrats try to pass it
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democrats are making plans to push through the $2 trillion economic aid package with or without republican support. speaker nancy pelosi said the house will lay the groundwork next week for reconciliation, a process that would allow the bill to pass with only democratic votes. yesterday white house press secretary jen psaki reiterated they would like republican support and lawmakers say bipartisan talks are ongoing. the president spoke to senator susan collins and rob portman this week as he tries to assess where republicans stand on the bill. however, some administration officials acknowledged privately
reconciliation seems increasingly likely. joining us now, democrat senator shaheen of new hampshire, a member of the foreign relations committee. thank you for joining us. the bill potentially will go through either way. what's the potential you could get republican support? >> well, i think there are provisions in the bill that republicans do support, or at least a number of republicans support. hopefully they will decide that they can support those. i think we're still in a negotiation period. we're going to have to make a decision soon. because as we look at particularly the spread of the variant and the need to get vaccines out to the states and get vaccinations into people's arms, the urgency becomes even greater. and states need these dollars. we need them not just for vaccinations. but still for ppe, for research
and to the jean ohmic changes in the coronavirus, we are not doing as well as we should. so it's really important that resources get out there and we are also able to help people who are still suffering because of the coronavirus. >> so, senator, you obviously have been part of a group of republicans and democrats that have been trying to forge a middle path on issues such as this. do you have concerns about democrats going it alone, on reconciliation and any concerns about that actually stopping republicans from cooperating in the future if that's -- if there's any chance of that at all now any way? >> well, president biden has said he would like to see us work together and get bipartisan support for his proposals. i think as we look at what comes next, whether it's immigration reform or the need to address
health care in a broader sense and the other challenges that we're facing, an infrastructure bill, it's important to work with republicans. so i'm still hopeful that even if we can't get their support for an initial package, that they'll help us as we're looking in greater detail at that package and think about working on amendments, for example. >> so does using reconciliation, though, does that poison any future efforts for republicans and democrats working together? >> i hope not. we've seen in the past that there has been bipartisan support for reconciliation measures. so i -- as i talked to some of my republican colleagues, they've said we could support certain provisions of the bill and then you could do the rest by reconciliation. that indicates they're willing to continue to think about working together even if some portion of the bill is done by
reconciliation. >> all right. senator, thank you so much for being on the show. we so greatly appreciate it. >> thank you. now this. legendary and pioneering actress cicely tyson died yesterday at the age of 96. the emmy and tony-winning actress was known for taking on roles in the '60s and '70s of strong black women shattering stereotypes and paving the way for future generations. tyson refused to take roles that demeaned black people, encouraging others to do the same. it often meant going without work at times but she stayed true to her principles until the right job came along. among them, the leading role in the 1972 drama "sounder" where she played the wife of an imprisoned sharecropper forced to rise to the occasion to take care of her family. after a long career that spanned
film, broadway and television, tyson returned to broadway in 2013 in a production of the "trip to bountiful." that role earned her a tony award making her the oldest person to win a tony at the age of the 88. in a tribute former president barack obama tweeted in her extraordinary career cicely tyson, one of the rare award winning actors whose work on the screen was surpassed only by what she was able to accomplish off of it. she had a heart unlike any other. for 96 years she left a mark on the world that few will ever match. >> gene robinson of the "new york times" referred to cicely tyson as both regal and strong and the headline of her obituary. boy, those two words certainly seem to fit this remarkable actor.
>> yes, what a life and what a career, but she was -- as president obama said, it was not just what she did on the screen and she was nominated for an oscar, given an honorary oscar, won a bunch of emmys. a lot of her work was in television mini series and dramas. some of them really spectacular. but also what she did off the screen. she was an activist. if you think of the scope of her life, born in 1924, she lived through the civil rights movement and participated in it from start to finish. and was a stalwart of that movement. and an icon not just for african-americans but for americans. she was an amazing person.
just a side note, in the '80s she also rescued from the brink of disaster one of the greatest musicians in our history, miles davis, who was in a downward spiral and she sort of brought him out of it. eventually they were married for a while. but she was just a great person. she had a great life. may she rest in power. >> may she rest in power. also we didn't note yesterday, cloris leachman, also a long-time renowned actor passed away. i believe at the age of 94. donny deutsch, before we leave, i wanted to circle back to what and party. as you know, democrats are not
as good at framing democrats as democrats are at framing republicans. what do they need to be doing in the next few weeks and over the next two years? >> joe, i said so many stupid things on the show, this morning i said one of my rare bright things. i want the democrats to pay attention. that mgt is a gift. it's the one simple branding s.w.a.t. instead of screaming why -- no, put her on more committees. the republican party is the party of mgt. it's like a jiu-jitsu move. as a branding piece of architecture, mgt, long live mgt, this is the republican party. we'll see you at every national election. >> okay. donny deutsch, thank you very much. coming up, how to fix four years of trump's war against government. that's ahead on "morning joe."
sounds like the worst music festival. luckily, none of this affects me. as you know, all my money is securely invested in beanie babies. >> it is friday, january 29th. with us we have white house reporter for the associated press, jonathan lemire, former chair of the republican national committee, and an msnb political analyst, michael steele and former aide to the george w. bush white house and state departments, elise jordan, these an msnbc political analyst as well. so we will get to the latest in game stop. that story ahead. plus, a full year into the fight against covid. and we're learning troubling details about the pandemic. a federal investigation found that u.s. officials who greeted american evacuees from wuhan did not have training in infectious disease control and were told not to wear masks. that's according to the
"washington post." and in new york, the state's attorney general is investigating why the cuomo administration failed to report 3,800 hospital deaths as being linked to nursing homes, an undercount of 40%. we begin with lawmakers continuing to fear for their safety as ongoing security threats at the u.s. capitol continue to surface. d.c. police arrested a 71-year-old west virginia man at the capitol yesterday with a gun, 20 rounds of ammunition, and stop the steal paperwork in his car. court documents show that dennis westover allegedly told police that he was, quote, concerned about the honesty and integrity of the election. he was charged with carrying a gun without a license. possession of unregistered ammunition and unlawful possession of a firearm according to an incident report
obtained by nbc news. a bipartisan letter addressed to house leadership yesterday warns that they are easy targets as personal information, including their home addresses and event schedules are all public. they are asking for increased funds to this year's member representational allowance citing that increased threat level. and the acting chief of the u.s. capitol police is calling for permanent fencing around the capitol building and is requesting availability of ready backup forces in close proximity to the capitol, something that wasn't there january 6th. but a fence won't keep out those who are already allowed into the building. here's house speaker nancy pelosi speaking yesterday. >> what exactly did you mean when you said the enemy is within? >> it means that we have members of congress that want to
bring guns on the floor and have threatened violence on other members of congress. what i'm concerned about is the republican leadership in the house of representatives who is willing to overlook, ignore those statements, assigning her to the education committee when she has mocked the killing of little children at sandy hook elementary school. when she has mocked the killing of teenagers in high school at the marjory stoneman douglas high school. what could they be thinking, or is thinking too generous a word for what they might be doing. it's absolutely appalling. >> what speaker pelosi is referring to is the recent outcry congresswoman marjorie taylor greene faced after video surfaced of her following and
harassing david hogg, the gun safety activist who survived a massacre at his high school in parkland, florida. >> i'm a gun owner. i have a conceal carry permit. i carry a gun for protection for myself and you are using your lobby and the money behind it and the kids to try to take away my second amendment rights. how did you get over 30 appointments with senators? how did you do that? school zones are protected by security guards with guns there would be no mass shootings at schools. he's a coward. he can't say one word because he can't defend his stance. >> a coward who was in a school shooting. and, again, this person actually said that that was a hoax. that parkland was a hoax, that it was a false flag. that it was a hoax. mika, we have talked to so
many -- the parents who have endured the worst pain any parent can endure. >> this is not just a one situation deal here. she's -- >> no, it's not. >> she suggested that 2017, the shooting in las vegas, the deadliest in the country's history targeted a mostly conservative audience of country music fans since it was part of a plot from gun control activists. greene has also written in blog posts the pizzagate conspiracy theory which claimed there was a satanic child sex trafficking ring at a washington pizzeria restaurant might be real. and in a 2017 blog post greene said the deadly white supremacist rally in charlottesville that year was an inside job to further the agenda of the elites. greene has also claimed that a plane never crashed into the
pentagon on 9/11, and said that former president barack obama is a muslim. and then there's this, downed power lines was the cause of california's deadliest wildfire two years ago when the camp fire killed 85 people. but as the fire raged, marjorie taylor greene reportedly wrote in a facebook post that, quote, there are all these people who saw what they said looked like lasers or blue beams of light causing the fires and pictures of videos. that according to a screen shot of that post was shared by liberal media watchdog media matters. the post also also falsely speculated that pacific gas and electric and then governor jerry brown were involved in causing the fire. it also must be just a coincidence that the fires are burning in the same projected areas that the $77 billion high speed rail project is to be
built, which also is governor brown's pet project green wrote according to the screen shot. she has lots of videos about january 6th, joe, where she is talking about getting ready for this big insurrection. she did a video at the white house. >> yeah. we haven't even gotten to those yet, which are the most relevant to what nancy pelosi said. she had a video at the white house talking about whipping people up for january the 6th. we have her ad where she is holding an ar-15 and has three women of color, and what a coincidence that is, that are members of congress that she says she's going to target, that she's coming after. that obviously causes grave concern.
and jim vandehei, there's all the likes on the posts talking about putting a bullet in nancy pelosi's head. she also of course talked about the lynching of barack obama and another president, i believe it was. and she said -- told everybody they needed to just stay calm, that people were being put in place. and it was going to happen. yeah. the lynching of barack obama and hillary clinton. and said it was all going to be put in place very carefully. and this is the person that right now the republican caucus is split on. nancy pelosi said yesterday in front of the cameras a lot of republicans are now saying privately behind cameras and they're trying to figure out exactly why kevin mccarthy supported her election to the
united states house. and now they don't feel safe. >> i mean, there's parallels with how they handled donald trump. he we reported that steve scalise, liz zany and liz cheney and others warned months ago that she's radioactive, dangerous, that she said all kinds of crazy thing and she could tear apart the party if elected. they did nothing. why? because a lot of the base likes this stuff. i know people especially on twitter hate it when we talk about trump and how he will loom large over the party, but i'm sorry, he is. whatever moment there was where there was self-reflection and how the party might change passed in three days. now all the forces of trump are causing mccarthy going to kiss his boot in florida yesterday or defending members like her now. if you listen to conservative media, if you watch conservative
media, there's now a common grievance that even transcends trump -- it doesn't matter if trump runs again. the common grievance big media, big business, big government are trying to shut you down, shut you up. and they say it over and over again. what happens when people say that to you? it's not a small academic matter about the size of tax cuts. it goes to your very being. you feel like someone is attacking you. it's a call to arms. it becomes personal. it becomes visceral. when things are that visceral, that's why the department of homeland security is warning that false narratives could fuel attacks on members of congress who now -- you worked up there. they have to get more money for self protection at home. they have to have a -- you have to be able to go through a magnet to make sure you're not bringing a gun to the floor. you have to put up a fence on the outside. all this stuff is interrelated.
you have to pay attention to it. it's not getting better. in fact, ben shapiro and others are telling us it's going to get worse. if it gets worse bad things like what happened at the capitol can happen again. people should not be naive about that. that dry kindling is as dry as ever and people are trying to spark it. still ahead, the political ad that has lots of lawmakers nervous right now. a member of congress holding a weapon with her political targets in the background. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ? then make a name for yourself. even if your office, and bank balance are... far from glamorous. that means expensing nothing but pizza. your expenses look good, and your books are set for the month! ...going up against this guy... and pitching your idea 100 times. no, no, no! no. i like it. -he likes it! ...and you definitely love that. intuit quickbooks helps small businesses be more successful with payments,
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the past four years. they lost a hell of a lot of legislative seats across the nation. of course when they went full-on crazy after the election, they lost georgia. like they lost two senate seats in georgia to, as i've said, one of the guys looked like an extra in the movie "reds." a guy who would never win that state, win a race statewide. but they did it because the republicans. and this continues. do they really think giving this woman a committee seat while trying to go after liz cheney is their future? because if so, man, things are going to get a lot worse for them electorally fast. >> well, you just set up the real dynamic and the real challenge which is a huge problem, going to be a huge problem for the party. i think people really need to take to heart the reporting of
jim vandehei and what he just said because it's real and it is deep. and it is pervasive in communities that i think a lot of us would be surprised to hear and see and -- you know, begin to realize, oh, my gosh, these folks over here really think this. so you have two things that are setting up for the gop right you've got this cultural/victimhood piece that everybody is after them and the conspiracies and all of those wild theories. then you have the political piece where that also gets played out. because the rest of the country is looking at this and saying you guys are crazy as hell. no, i'm not electing you. i'm not giving you the keys to the white house and the congress and the courts. and so it's going to be very, very hard to make the case to
the american people that we can be a mature governing majority and we have policies and ideas that matter when they look around and they see qanon crazy. they look around and see, wait a minute, you are stoking senator hawley, senator cruz, jim yord jordan, and you guys are stalking and pushing out insurrection. how they square that will be their political misfortune going forward. >> elise, this member of congress, marjorie taylor greene, there are countless videos of her using foul language, language you would be fired from any job from using. let's take a look at her campaign ad and go from there. why would republicans want to continue in this direction. her campaign ad here.
i don't know if you can see. she is holding -- >> an ar-15. >> yeah. and you see three members of congress in the direction of the ar-15. are you kidding me? i don't have the words. but how could they have quite frankly the appetite for someone like this to be in their midst? >> marjorie taylor greene is a person you wouldn't want to housesit for you, to babysit for you. the things that are coming out of her mouth are absolutely and completely insane. and what i don't understand, there were so many republican men who cowered, republican leaders who cowered at donald trump. they were so petrified of donald trump. and he had a big megaphone. he was president, he had a lot of power. i just don't understand why this freshman congresswoman is someone that they seem to be cowering from doing anything to.
and instead they put her on the education committee. i don't understand why she has any committee assignments. i don't understand why the leadership just is so incredibly powerless when it's one lone congresswoman in a very, very safe seat. still ahead, biden's vital but fraught battle against domestic terrorism. we'll read from that new piece in the "new yorker" coming up on "morning joe." my nunormal: fewer asthma attacks. less oral steroids. taking my treatment at home. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. not for sudden breathing problems.
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let's get to the latest with gamestop and other surging stocks backed by reddit users. online brokerage firms are taking action and restricting trading in these inflated shares. robinhood, td ameritrade, e-trade, interactive brokers group all made the decision yesterday to limit activity on these stocks only allowing traders who were hoping to capitalize on the gains with two options, hold or sell. however hedge funds were still able to make moves on these stocks.
this caused a dip in shares for the high-flying stocks. gamestop dropped 44%. amc down 57%, and other targets like nokia, bed bath & beyond, express and tootsie all posted losses despite being up for the week. >> these platforms better call their lawyers. >> these moves ignited widespread criticism and a group of individual investors filed a class-action complaint against robinhood yesterday claiming that the platform deprived their customers of the ability to use their service as well as potential gains from trading for no legitimate reasons. robinhood needed to emergency fundraise$1 billion from existing investors to support activity and will allow limited buys on reddit stocks today. >> let's bring in columnist and business insider and host of can
kcrw's left, right and center. josh, i'm just a dump country lawyer, but if one of those platforms said hey, listen, we think we're going to rig the market. we're not going to let so-and-so buy. i say, hey, you know what, i can't help you here that much. i can just tell you that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard. don't do it. they put themselves in some problems. let's talk first about -- let's see this whole thing from 30,000 feet. i think this is the stupidest thing i have ever heard. there's a lot of good people that decided they'll play in the market and at the end of the day the valuations for gamestop and the valuations for amc will be the valuations. and a lot of people, i think -- again, i don't know a whole lot about the market, that's why you're here, but it seems they're going to lose their money. in the words of the old 1970s song what goes up must come down. it's going to come down hard,
isn't it, josh? >> yeah. yeah. i mean, some of those people who are upset that they weren't able to trade yesterday, that may have saved them a lot of money in the end. to give you a sense, gamestop, there was a dispute among investors for a substantial period. gamestop is a retailer of video games, mostly brick-and-mortar. it is a declining business. that activity shifted online. people don't really buy video games anymore, they download things. the stock was performing poorly. they thought this was going to continue and continue to decline. another story about gamestop they could pivot somewhat and become an online player. the stock was beaten up too much. but where the stock is trading now, the last i looked, almost $400 a share, that makes gamestop worth about as much as best buy. they have five times as many sales, three times more employees. it made a billion and a half dollars.
game stop lost $400 million. so these valuations are completely untethered from anything actually to do with the company. it's a frenzy, a fad. yes, your instinct is correct. what goes up in the long run, stock prices -- obviously the market doesn't price things perfectly, but in general the stock market is going to value the future profits the company will make. gamestop should not have gone up by a factor of a hundred based on that sort of analysis. what happens with brokerage firms that cut off trading, they facing their own issues with the clearing firms closing these stock transactions. it takes a few days when it moves in the pipe and when the shares move around. the issue is if you have an order to buy gamestop and they figure out a couple days later that you don't have the money in the account to cover that purchase, in a normal situation, that's fine. you find something else to buy the stock. it probably didn't move that much in price. here the concern is two days from now the share price will be way lower than it is and the
clearing firm will not pay somebody else to pay the price you did. so they are going to robinhood and other brokerages and saying you need to raise a lot of money because the trading is too risky here. they are facing a real logistical issue. the money robinhood raised should help pay for that and have a more reliable service. the reason the clearing firms are so nervous about this are reasons investors should be so nervous about this. it doesn't make sense that gamestop is trading at $400 a share or $100 a share. it's not a reliable way to make money. there's been trends like this not as high profile since the spring. the stock market has done great since the spring. bitcoin is up substantially since the spring. if you were sitting at home, you continue to receive your salary, you had extra money because you weren't going to restaurants or traveling. you're like maybe i should get into the stock market, you probably have done well over the past nine months. most things have gone up in the
last nine months. most people think get into these frenzies and make money. coming up, how images like this have become an increasingly common presence in american political life. the "new york times" magazine has a new profile on the rise of armed protest at state capitols. we'll talk about that straight ahead on "morning joe."
this just out, johnson & johnson has released the results of its coronavirus vaccine trial finding its candidate was 66% effective at preventing moderate and severe illness. the difference is the j & j vaccine is a single shot. the study finds the vaccine was more effective in the united states, 72%. it's compared to 66% in areas in latin america and 57% in south
africa. overall, it was 85% effective at preventing severe disease. johnson & johnson is now expected to apply for emergency use authorization next week, which if approved would put it on track for public use by late february or early march. meanwhile, a federal investigation found that u.s. officials who greeted american evacuees from wuhan about a year ago who were fleeing the epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak did not have any training in infectious disease control and they were even told not to wear masks. let me tell you that again, the government instructed them not to wear masks. this is according to the "washington post." the paper obtained two federal reports which detailed how u.s. officials were asked to remove their protective equipment to avoid "bad optics."
wow. no bad optics were wanted when meeting the 200 evacuees at a u.s. air base in california. it was the country's first close encounter with the coronavirus. the situation resulted in a whistle-blower complaint which prompted an internal probe by the department of health and human services and the u.s. office of special counsel. yesterday they wrote to president biden that the most troubling finding was the government's handling of evacuees which increased the risk of infection transmission not only to deployed personnel but also to the american public as a whole. the special counsel criticized the attempts to shame the whistle-blower. let's bring in susan delpersio.
i would say it's hard to believe but nothing is hard to believe from the trump administration, trump administration officials ordered those meeting the evacuees from wuhan who were escaping the coronavirus to not wear masks because it would produce "bad optics." imagine the spreading of the disease that occurred that early in the process there. >> it's not surprising because what was happening during that time? donald trump was trying to figure out the final phases of his tariff negotiations with china. some argue, and i believe it, that that's one of the reasons why he didn't force the world health organization and american doctors to go into china early to start tracking this when they knew it was a problem and had not had the spread in january, but they knew it was a problem but donald trump didn't want to put anything at risk with the
economy or those tariff deals which he thought would lead to his re-election. it's not surprising if you look at donald trump's actions. in fact, it's very consistent. and it's also down to the point of even trying to hurt the whistle-blower. that's what donald trump's administration did. thankfully we have a new administration who is willing to take responsibility and follow the science. >> of course compare that to how people were treated when they returned from affected areas during the ebola crisis and that outbreak. they were actually not allowed to go inside of airports. they were kept in tents outside of airports and still donald trump and other republicans were critical of that response. let's turn now to politics editor for the "new york times" magazine, charles homans. he looks at how americans have often ignored the implications of the country's arsenal of privately owned guns asking if
the january 6th attack on the capitol will change that. also with us is executive editor of newyorker.com, david rohde. david writes in part this. a current senior law enforcement official told me that a mandate from biden in congress to crack down on domestic extremist violence is welcomed. but the official who asked not to be named cautioned that the federal and state law enforcement officials have no legal authority and little desire to be drawn into targeting specific ideologies or type of speech. "our concern is the violence. our concern is the conduct. remember, hate speech is protected speech, the official said. you don't want law enforcement overreach. we learned that lesson. the official added that elected leaders could play a central role in combating domestic
extremism. quote, a lot depends on our political leadership. if there's an effort to bring down some of the temperature. thank you very much for being with us, david. those quotes remind me of a piece that i read soon after january 6th and they were listing the types of organizations that the federal government was going to start paying a closer watch to and listed among all of these frightening groups that we all have been talking about were anti-abortion protesters. i said there thinking got to be careful about mixing apples and oranges there. yes, violent anti-abortion protesters, yes, they're there. but there is a real danger of people moving from the actions to the political speech. talk about that. >> yeah. that's the challenge here.
i completely agree with you. it's sort of back to american basics. illegal conduct and violence is totally unacceptable. that fbi official and many others are eager to enforce the law. but there's the danger of overkill, of smearing groups. i think the line that person drew about we need the political class to bring down the rhetoric is the right one. if we overreact to this, if we need to have public trials of everybody that was, you know, arrested and involved in the riot, the insurrection at the capitol. but we can't have excessive secrecy or i agree with you the smearing of certain groups that have not engaged in violence. >> david, susan del percio here. the one thing i'm curious about. it seems there's a fine line between an armed protester and a domestic terrorist these days. and it's hard to define which one is which especially when you hear some of the stories -- not
stories, the case of the michigan governor, you know, having been targeted for kidnapping and death. and when you look at the capitols that had to be boarded up because they were worried about people coming with firearms because they're not banned. how do we start tackling that more definitively and calling people who they are? >> i think this is the challenge. this is why i use the word fraught. it's legal under michigan law and in some states for people to bring weapons to protests outside of state capitols and i think even inside them. so the political class needs to start drafting new laws to declare when is it appropriate to have a weapon and when it isn't. i think the political class needs to talk about the third problem here, it is weaponry and what's going on. that's a big issue. disinformation. we have a crisis of information
in this country. the earlier segment about marjorie taylor greene rampant conspiracy theories. i think we need new laws about speech in the digital age, social platforms. quickly, i think there has to be consequences for what you say. i think it's good that dominion sued rudy giuliani for $1.6 billion for making false claims about election conspiracies. so we need -- the last thing we need to do, law enforcement and force the laws aggressively. the political class bringing down the rhetoric and enacting new laws and counter disinformation. there should be come kind of libel laws applied to social media platforms where if you smear someone you can be sued. i could be sued for my story, that's a deterrent on these conspiracy theories. >> every time i talk about either getting rid of section 230 or reforming section 230 i get howls and cries that this is the end of free speech online.
i'll use my example, i think it's preposterous that the president of the united states can call me a murderer 12 times, can slander the memory of a woman who died 19 years ago claiming that her death was part of a conspiracy theory and i'm told i can't sue the president because he's the president, he has liability. then i'm told i can't sue twitter and facebook for publishing that. do you know what would happen if the "new yorker" published that or if the new york times published that or if "vanity fair" published that? i would already have a settlement from your publication, from the "new york times," from anybody else that published that. that regurgitated that and printed it, reproduced it as fact.
you are exactly right. these absolutists are actually -- are actually guilty of being a part of this problem that allows people to spread disinformation that hurts our economy, that hurts our democracy, and hurts public health. >> that's the challenge today. that's the challenge of our generation and the digital age. these rules should apply. social media, twitter, the tech platforms that made this money, they're amplifying to 150 the instant message of donald trump. twitter ended that. but information is power, and you have to have some responsibility when you disseminate that information. so i agree with you. new laws that apply, lawsuits and libel and defamation should be applied to social media platforms. >> charles, in your latest for
the "new york times" magazine you write in part there are 400 million privately owned guns in america. by some estimates americans have generally whistled past full implication of their own privately held arsenal. this is partly a function of the country's unbroken modern record of peaceful transfers of power. it is also a triumph of second amendment activists messaging and their ability to successfully navigate that message's central paradox that the right to bear arms is constitutionally guaranteed because of the potential need to overthrow the same government that codifies the right in the first place. so let's first of all talk, charles, about the situation right now. and i am a gun owner. i know a lot of people who voted for joe biden that were not gun owners before this last election who are gun owners now. i can tell you something you
probably already know, it's next to impossible to get ammunition. i mean, the gun sales have skyrocketed over the past six months as have sales for ammunition and anything else gun related. you can't find ammunition. you can't find guns in a lot of stores now. >> i think that's true. i think it speaks to a phenomenon that feeds into what i wrote about in that piece which is how much the gun debate, which has always been very fraught that really merged with partisan politics in this country which lends of this cast that it implicitly had before but didn't have explicitly that it has acquired it in the last year or so, where you have multiple state capitols where the actual democratic processes had to be temporarily shut down because of armed demonstrations and you have the gun lobby
both -- gun manufacturers and sort of, you know, owners of guns really converging fully with the republican party in terms of their view of the political process and what's happening. we've always seen, you know, for many years we've seen gun sales fluctuate more or less in concert with whether there was a democratic or republican president in office. and i think we're seeing an acceleration of what you're describing as a result of how kind of intense this whole debate has gotten. >> yeah. you know, susan, i've said this for the past decade, certainly since sandy hook. the guys i grew up with in mississippi and alabama and georgia and northwest florida who all went hunting, started hunting with their dads when they 5, 6, 7, 8 years old, they don't understand the extreme language. they don't understand -- you can
have debate on ar-15s, but they always say to me, i don't need an ar-15 to kill a deer. the only reason you need an ar-15 is if you want to hunt humans in schools or if you want to kill members of the government that are coming to your doors. when i engage in the debate and ask, why do you need this gun or that gun? it does very often revolve and go back to this paranoid belief that the government is coming after them and they need to be stockpiled to fight the government to which i laugh and say -- i think scalia may have said this. i said, buddy, if you have an ar-15 inside your house, they'll just bring the drone in and melt the weapon out of your hand. it's not -- it's just not a rational way of thinking. but that sort of fear mongering is what drives the sales of a lot of weapons.
>> that type of fear mongering also created the environment of if you ban this weapon, it's a slippery slope until the government takes away all your guns. and one of the people or organizations that were a real proponent of that is the nra and the way they fought and their political influence. charles, my question to you is now that the nra has been disband to some extent their influence, they don't have the resources, what's the next level of communication or representation to fill that void of the voice of the nra and can they be held a little more responsible? >> that's an interesting question. i guess i would say i don't know whether that sort of institutional leadership is really necessary to the movement at this point because the sort of view that the nra has put forward for so many years. it's so widely held by such a large group of gun owners at
this point. and as joe was talking about, i think there's been a real shift in the relationship between, you know, what people traditionally thought of as gun owners and the arguments on behalf of owning hunting rifles and absolute position that both holds that we should have access to really just a totally unlimited arsenal, and any attempt to sort of regulate that around the edges amounts to the beginning of a slippery slope to banning all guns. and so i think, i mean one thing that you cena lot of these protests is that there's a mix of organizations involved from sort of conventional second amendment rights groups to armed organized militias. but they don't really seem to require, you know, somebody like the nra leading them necessarily. i mean, it's become, you know, it's kind of rolled in like everything else with the partisan divide in this country to the point where these things sort of will happen whether or not a group like that is as
powerful as the nra has been, i think. >> david, quick question. we've been told for some time there have been complaints that we don't have domestic terrorism law, like we have terrorist laws for international terrorism. is that going to change over the next few years? >> there's a chance it gets enacted but i think there's plenty of laws now to enforce this, and i think we can do this. the ku klux klan was marginalized and defeated, left as revolutionaries in the '70s and were defeated. if we're calm we can get through this crisis period, i'm confident of it. >> thank you so much, david, as always, thank you, charles, it was great having you here, we really appreciate it. coming up next, steve bannon once said that donald trump's goal as president was to, quote, deconstruct the administrative
state. our next guest says joe biden's goal should be putting it back together again. that's next. i think the sketchy website i bought this turtle from stole all of my info. ooh, have you looked on the bright side? discover never holds you responsible for unauthorized purchases on your card. (giggling) that's my turtle. fraud protection. discover. something brighter.
record pace of executive orders yesterday, rolling back anti-abortion measures put in place by the trump administration, and signing measures to shore up the affordable care act after four years of efforts to dismantle it. biden is reportedly planning to wind down his initial burst of executive actions by midnext week and shift his focus to getting key parts of his legislative agenda passed. three administrative officials tell nbc news with a $1.9 trillion coronavirus relief package joe biden's top priority. with us now former deputy secretary of labor chris lou, and attorney alexa kissinger who served as special assistant to president obama from 2013 to 2015. alexa wrote a new york op-ed titled for to fix four years of trump's war against government.
hours after being sworn in president biden took bold action of freezing a litany of final and pending agency regulations and signed a bevy of executive orders reversing trump-era policies but the scope of the problem requires more aggressive action. the biden administration should also use the congressional review act to reverse even more of the recent rules. the wins in georgia's senate races, giving democrats control of both houses of congress and the presidency changing hands, provide the rare opportunity to use this little known law. first of all, alexa, i got the impression, and i know a lot of people got the impression back when donald trump took control that there's a very scattered shot approach and he just didn't have professionals around him who understood exactly how washington worked and understood how all the bureaucracies work, you get a real sense of the biden people who have gamed all of this out long before they walked into the white house on january the 20th.
>> absolutely. i think you've seen it was one of the most historically productive transition periods. this administration is barely nine days old and is already moving in historically efficient, focused and really values driven ways to honor the campaign promises that the american people sent them there to do and honestly they are just getting started. so it is night and day from the neglect and interference of the trump administration showed with our federal institutions over the last four years. >> and you say they can do more. talk about specifically what you want to see them do over the next few weeks. >> well, i think the biden administration would be the first to say, you know, that these initial executive actions are to stem the bleeding. they are to stop an amount of hurt that four years of deconstructing our government and harmful policies have done. i'm going to be honest, i haven't read every single
executive order but i think nowhere in them does it say and this is all we're going to do on the topic. it is just the beginning. my co-author wrote a piece that really talked about the long and hard work of rebuilding back our federal institutions. one of the ways i think democrats should look at it is is using the congressional review act which really is a very little known law but that would allow democrats by a simple majority vote, so avoiding the filibuster, which as we know is very important, to look and repeal actions that we call midnight rules, so the very final actions of the trump administration in the last 60 legislative days of their session, it would allow a simple majority rule to repeal those rules and prevent them from being enacted again. so i think it's worth taking a look at as part of the biden administration's comprehensive strategy. >> chris lou, you've been in government, what does the biden administration need to do next if the government is to reverse some of the damage they believe
was done during the trump administration. >> as alexa just said they've gotten out of the gate fast and that's been impressive. the reason you need to move fast is that in many instances you need regulations from agencies to implement them and that often takes months to do. the other reason you want to move fast is because you want to try to effectuate change, behavioral, attitude change. the more transgenders that serve in the military, the more they're integrated, the harder it becomes for anybody to undo that and finally what's important is that they've really focused on a lot of very popular agenda items, whether it's daca protections, whether it's reopening the affordable care act, whether it's the eviction moratoriums. so while republicans may complain about executive overreach, which is frankly a concept they haven't talked about for four years, these are broadly popular items. but the bigger lesson from the obama administration is going
back to economic relief. we need to go big, and it needs to be sustained and what we learned from the great recession is that if you cut off the money soon, then the recovery takes longer and the pain worsens for all americans. so the executive orders are important but the legislation has to follow this. >> chris, you know, i'm from the days where good government was good politics. joe biden delivering on operations right now to help the public is critical. what do you think about dividing this relief bill, covid relief bill to get money directly in for ppp, vaccinations and other things, and allowing people to just feel that the government is helping them? >> you know, i think that makes a lot of sense. i think the challenge is doing reconciliation, and trying to put it all into one package. you may only have one shot to do that but look if there's broad agreement on getting money out for vaccines right now, which desperately needs to happen if
we're going to hit that 100 million vaccination goal in the 100 days there needs to be more money, there needs to be more money for schools to reopen but also understand this, the stimulus package that was passed in december only extends enhanced unemployment benefits until march so like in about a month and a half we're going to be at this point on economic relief, and given the pace at which congress moves it may make sense just to do the whole thing at one time. >> all right. chris lou, and alexa kissinger, thank you all both so much, hope you will come back very soon and susan del percio, as always, thank you so much for being with us, stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. hi there, i'm stephanie ruhle, it's friday, january 29th and we have got major breaking news, a new weapon that could completely alter the battlefield in the fight against covid-19. just moments ago johnson & johnson released the findings of it
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