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tv   Ayman Mohyeldin Reports  MSNBC  April 6, 2021 12:00pm-1:00pm PDT

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after that? >> yeah, we do cpr classes on a rotating basis. so every other year they go through cpr. >> now i would like to talk to you about a couple of the minneapolis policies if we could. so there's essentially two minneapolis police policies that deal with emergency medical response, correct? >> correct. >> one being after a use of force, correct? >> that is correct. >> and that being as soon as
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reasonably practical, determined if anyone was injured and render medical aid consistent with training and request ems, if necessary, correct? >> correct. >> that's policy 5-306 involving a use of force, correct? >> yes, sir. >> and so the policy is somewhat qualified, correct, meaning it's as soon as practically reasonable? >> correct. >> so in the course of the medical training, one of the things you train officers to do in the administration of first aid is to consider other circumstances, right? >> correct, you'd have to make sure that your scene is safe before you are able to render aid. >> right. >> and there's the scene being safe could be -- not being safe could come from a number of factors, correct? >> absolutely. >> environmental factors such as where you are located, right? >> yes. >> whether there's a lot of traffic, correct? >> yes. >> or whether there's a lot of
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bystanders, correct? >> correct. >> depending on their behavior, right? >> yes. >> so scene safety is important and, in fact, minneapolis police or the emts won't come to a scene until it's declared code 4 generally, correct? >> generally, yes. >> so oftentimes it's not uncommon for emts to stage off site until police call a scene code 4, correct? >> correct. >> code 4 being all clear, all safe come on in. >> yes. >> so in that situation, if a scene is unsafe, emts don't come in at that point. >> correct. >> right? the other policy that we deal with here -- too many things open here.
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is minneapolis police policy 7-350. that's in front of you right now? >> it is. >> and again, instant or relative to the emergency medical response, minneapolis police officers are required to request ems as soon as practical, correct? >> correct. >> and so there may be certain things that prevent an officer from calling in the ems, right? >> absolutely. >> so both of the medical policies are somewhat qualified or contingent upon what's going on at the scene at the time, right? >> yes. >> now in terms of -- exhibit 111, which is the cpr presentation that you've presented. turn to --
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i'm going to turn to 21856 down at the bottom there. there is a reference to aginal breathing. >> what is that? >> it's something you'll see in somebody who is unresponsive and they're in some sort of respiratory distress. we see this quite often with opioid overdoses, medical emergencies, drownings, what have you. >> can you describe what exactly aginal breathing is? >> well, by name it's kind of a bad term for it because it's not effective breathing. it's more or less kind of an irregular gasp for air. >> okay. >> it's really like your brain's
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last ditch effort to try to pull some air out. >> and a person observing someone going through agonal breathing, it's common or would be possibly that they would misinterpret that as actual breathing, effective breathing? >> yes, they can be easily confused with real breathing. that's why we teach this is not effective. >> so an officer is dealing with someone who is experiencing agonal breathing. they would potentially be possible for an officer to misinterpret agonal breathing for effective breathing? >> it could. >> and in certain circumstances where there's a lot of noise or a lot of commotion, would it be more likely that that could happen? >> yes. >> now, you were shown this slide in terms of when do we stop cpr. and one of the reasons you stop performing cpr is because it's not safe, right?
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>> correct. >> and by it being not safe, are you referring to the process of actually giving cpr or the environment that you would be doing it in? >> it would be the environment around you. >> okay. and so it stands to reason that if the environment around you, you determine to be not safe, you may not start it right away. >> that would be accurate -- reasonable, yes. >> now you also testified that you teach on narcan and the use of narcan? >> correct. >> and i am going to show you, you can see this training in front of you? >> yes. >> is this training that you provide to minneapolis police officers? >> yes. >> and this is the -- this is the program on like the broader course on how to administer
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narcan, correct? >> correct. >> and do you recognize this as a record that you keep in the ordinary course of your business? >> yes, sir. >> this, mr. swisher, i had labeled as -- exhibit 1041. and i would move to admit exhibit 1041. >> no objection. >> 1041 is received.
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>> and permission to publish 1041? this is from the minneapolis police department in service from july of 2018. >> correct. >> if mr. chauvin had attended this program or his inservice in july through september of 2018, he would have received this training, correct? >> correct. >> now in recent years, fentanyl has become more of a concern for officers to be aware of, correct? >> absolutely. >> and ultimately you train officers in the use of narcan to contra indicate or to contradict, i should say, the effects of narcan. right? excuse me --
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>> opiates. >> including fentanyl. >> correct. >> in your experience as a police officer and medical trainer, have you experienced individuals who take combinations of drugs? >> yes. >> have you heard the term speed ball? >> i have. >> would you agree that that is generally the combination of both a stimulant, like methamphetamine and a depressant like fentanyl? >> yes. >> objection. sidebar, your honor. e discoverie , marie could only imagine enjoying freshly squeezed orange juice. now no fruit is forbidden. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for all-day, all-night protection. can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn? ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. thank you! hey, hey, no, no limu, no limu!
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only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ can you describe for the jury what a speedball is? >> it's essentially a combination of an upper and a downer. >> and has that become commonplace in your experience? >> yes. >> as fentanyl has become more prominent, do you see that in legal forms such as patches or other pills that may be administered by a hospital? >> objection, leading. >> overruled. >> do you see that on the streets? >> yes. you'll see totally legitimate pharmaceutical purposes and then also illicit, you know, drugs that were manufactured.
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>> can you explain for the jury whether, in your experience, you've seen illicit fentanyl use on the rise? >> yes, absolutely. >> and i'm going to just show you, generally when you talk about someone -- you show it to officers in this training, when someone is on the -- experiencing an opiate overdose you may see this type of behavior, is that correct? >> you could, yes. >> someone may fall asleep. someone may be very tired, kind of out of it, right? >> leading. >> -- >> sorry. would this be consistent with what you'd see generally on a opiate overdose? >> it could be. >> have you ever been at a scene where an opiate overdose, someone can be more responsive? >> yes. >> even though they've taken an opiate? >> correct. >> now in terms of fentanyl, can
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you explain this slide? >> certainly. so this is a diagram to show you just what could be considered a lethal dose of fentanyl. it's more of a visual indicator because we already know how dangerous heroin is, and you can see a trace amount of that could be deadly with fentanyl and even more so with carfentanyl. >> even fentanyl in small doses canning -- >> objection, your honor. sidebar. >> i'll rephrase the question. >> persistent objection, your honor. >> sidebar. swollen, painful. tremfya® is approved to help reduce joint symptoms in adults with active psoriatic arthritis. some patients even felt less fatigued. serious allergic reactions may occur.
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so these are the training materials that you present to minneapolis police officers relevant to the use of narcan and controlled substances that they may encounter while in their performance of their duties, correct? >> correct. >> all right. now in terms of -- let me take
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this down. in terms of just again general training, you had already said you discussed with officers the concepts of excited delirium, correct? >> correct. >> and you provide them with training and materials about what that means, correct? >> yes. >> all right. and generally speaking, without reviewing to your training materials, can you describe what you train minneapolis police officers about excited delirium? >> certainly. this is a class that is taught at the academy. it's a one-hour block of instruction to recognize the signs and symptoms of excited delirium and your best responses for handling that. so excited delirium is a combination of psychomotor agitation, psychosis, hypothermia, a wide variety of things you might see in a person
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or rather bizarre behavior. and recognizing that this is a medical condition, not necessarily a criminal matter. >> would that include discussion of controlled substances in the context of excited delirium? >> yes, because we're usually teaching that most of the people that are experiencing something like excited delirium, usually there's illicit drugs on board that may be a contributing factor. >> and as far as -- what do you train minneapolis police officers relevant to the physical attributes of a person experiencing excited delirium? >> the person might be experiencing hyperthermia, elevated body temperature. could be a display of someone taking off their clothes in a place not appropriate to take
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off their clothes, like in the middle of winter, something like that. and just based on their activity, their heart rate may be extremely elevated, and they might be insensitive to pain. >> how does it affect strength? >> because you don't really have that pain compliance that would normally otherwise control somebody's behavior, so if somebody is experiencing this, they might have what we call superhuman strength. they might be able to lift things they wouldn't normally otherwise be able to lift. they might be breaking things. where they then have blood-like substances that you need to be cautious of. >> thank you. now in terms of -- i'm going to just back up and talk a little bit more about the response to a medical emergency by ems. again, based on your experience as a police officer and an emt.
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you talked about how sometimes ems will stage off site until a scene is clear and safe, correct? >> correct. >> and have you heard the term load and go? >> yes. >> can you describe for the jury what that is? >> load and go, it's more like an informal term that's used with first responders. that essentially means that as soon as they are going to be arriving, it's a priority to get that person into the ambulance as soon as possible and get en route to the hospital as soon as possible. >> are there reasons why an emt would or pair medic would choose to do that rather than administering first aid at the scene? >> yes. >> what are those reasons? >> -- >> if you know. if you don't know, just say so. >> sure. i feel comfortable answering it. by way of an example, if maybe
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somebody had a knife in their chest. obviously, there's only so many things you can do for that person prehospital. really the only thing that's going to save that person is immediate surgery. >> so there may be conditions of the individual that warrant that type of pick-up and go? >> yeah. >> and what about people in the area? could that affect an emt's decision to load and go? >> yes. >> how so? >> if you had a very hostile or volatile crowd, i know it sounds unreasonable, but bystanders do occasionally attack ems crews, so sometimes just getting out of the situation is kind of the best way to defuse it. >> okay. and have you ever had to perform emergency services in a -- not even a hostile crowd, just a loud, excitd crowd?
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>> yes. >> is that in your experience, more or less difficult? >> it's incredibly difficult. >> why? >> because if you are trying to be heads down on a patient that you need to render aid to, it's very difficult to focus on that patient while there's other things around you. if you don't feel safe around you, if you don't have enough resources, it's very difficult to focus on the one thing in front of you. >> you can get distracted? >> absolutely. >> so does it make it more difficult to assess a patient? >> it does. >> does it make it more likely that you may miss signs that a patient is experiencing something? >> yes. >> and so the distraction can actually harm the potential care of the patient? >> yes. >> i have no further questions.
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>> good afternoon. i'm geoff bennett in for ayman mohyeldin. we've been watching day seven of testimony in the murder trial of former minneapolis police officer derek chauvin. today we heard from multiple members of the minneapolis police department. their testimony centered on the training that officers receive at mpd. joining me is nbc news correspondent shaquille brewster live in minneapolis. civil rights attorney and former prosecutor david henderson. and the director of reshaping prosecution at the vera institute of justice, jami haud. welcome to the three of you. shaq, there have been reports that a member of the jury during today's proceedings fell asleep and that other jurors appear to be disinterested, perhaps distracted. give us a sense of what's happening in the courtroom today. >> yeah, geoff, this comes from our pool reporters. the two reporters who are inside the courtroom. remember, we're limited because of social distancing and the
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court's rules there. based on a pool report we got earlier today, we got a sense that some of the jurors have been paying attention and taking lots of notes but there was one juror in particular who the pool report says in the back row appeared to be sleeping. the other jurors seemed very attentive watching nelson and the lieutenant as they were going through and testifying. but when a graphic was shown on the screen about ground control and was put up on the screen, you saw one juror -- we saw all the jurors look up at that graphic but the other juror that had the head down did not look up as well. so the suspicion is that this juror was sleeping. this is something that we noticed the testimony this week has been less emotional. less compelling than what we saw during the first week when we had witnesses in tears every single day. sometimes we're getting to technical matters. we're getting to specific policies and training techniques and if it's a little slower, sometimes, and you see in that instance it appears as if one of the jurors did kind of doze off
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a little bit, geoff. >> david henderson, to shaq's point. we've been hearing from a number of fact witnesses today. lastly, we heard from nicole mckenzie, a medical support coordinator. earlier in the day, a use of force instructor, a crisis intervention trainer. give us a sense of how these folks add to the case that the prosecution is making and what do you make of the fact that one juror appears to have fallen asleep and others appear disinterested today? >> i'm not at all surprised that a juror would be falling asleep on this case. the questioning is moving along at a snail's pace. i'm not sure how many times they'll have to ask again, do you know who derek chauvin is? do you see derek chauvin in the courtroom? can you identify derek chauvin? i think every single witness has been asked that same question. when you start falling into rhythms like that you start to lose people's attention, and they lose their ability to focus on what's most important to your case. the most important facts to be
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developing right now are building on what the second paramedic we heard from said, and that was any lay person should have started performing chest compressions. i don't know why minneapolis police department didn't start doing it. now we're hearing from someone who is confirming that, yes, derek chauvin did know how to perform cpr. that's important. that's what you want to focus on because that's not the type of omission that a jury is going to forgive when your whole argument is, i was out there trying to do my job and sometimes my job gets difficult. >> we heard as the court was wrapping up today, before they took that break, that the defense was trying to make a case that the crowd of bystanders, perhaps, presented some sort of distraction or threat that could have caused derek chauvin to leave his knee perhaps placed on george floyd's neck for as long as he did. what do you make of that argument?
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>> -- trying to make which is trying to show both that george floyd himself was dangerous and trying to point to bystanders as dangerous. and it's important that we understand that this tactic of attaching dangerousness to black skin is deeply rooted in historical context. it is that dehumanization of black people that allows this incident to occur on may 25th. it's a foil that we need to understand is very damaging and is deeply rooted in the dehumanization of black people that happens in our criminal justice system and law enforcement interactions more broadly. >> david henderson, the prosecution is trying to make the case that chauvin acted outside of the policy, the training, the values of the minneapolis police department. what do you make of the case they presented so far?
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>> they presented that case well so far, geoff. i'll be honest with you. i have mixed feelings about how this evidence is coming out. this is a point we have to start distinguishing between effective arguments to make in a courtroom and discussions to have in a forum like this where we're focused more on what's objectively true and not what's persuasive. the minneapolis police department is partly to blame for george floyd's death. they did fail to properly train officers. failed to properly supervise them. policies and procedures in place that led exactly to the type of harm, but fortunately, the defense is not pointing that out on cross-examination. and i say fortunately because i do firmly believe that derek chauvin is guilty. but that doesn't make the minneapolis police department innocent. >> jami, we heard the defense again mention drugs and substance abuse in their lining questioning, even after the physician who treated mr. floyd said he likely died of
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asphyxiation norkts a heart attack from a drug overdose. why does the defense then keep pressing that point? >> they -- it's their job, right? their job is to try to make a case to at least point holes in the prosecutor's case and we have to remember that george floyd is not the one on trial here. derek chauvin is the one on trial. and so these tactics of referencing drug use, really have nothing to do with whether or not those actions, particularly as we've heard in the testimony from officers who do the training, once he was in handcuffs, drug use does not have anything to do with whether or not having a knee on his neck for this period of time was justified. it's something we continue to do, but george floyd is not the one on trial. >> shaq there was some back and forth this morning over whether morries hall who was a friend of george floyd's who was with him when he was arrested, whether or not morries hall would testify.
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where do we stand on that? >> well, the judge essentially told the defense to draft the questions that they want to ask morries hall and the attorneys, both the defense, the prosecution and morries hall's attorney. they'll go through and essentially come to an agreement over which questions can be asked if you brought him to court. you heard his attorneys say that if he were called, compelled to testify, he would use his fifth amendment protections. the concern there is that if the defense is saying that morries hall provided the drugs to george floyd, the defense is saying george floyd died of a drug overdose, then that could implicate morries hall. so in order to avoid that, the judge is saying give me a list of questions you plan to ask. it has to be narrow in scope and involve the behavior of george floyd in the car, for example, and not whether or not you supplied the drugs to him. and if they can come to an agreement on what those questions are, then we can
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likely see morries hall in court at some point. >> all right. shaquille brewster, david hend henderson and jamila hodge. president biden is expected to make a major announcement on covid vaccine eligibility. you're watching msnbc reports.
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i'm not hungry! right now. you're having one more bite! no! one more bite! ♪ kraft. for the win win. today russian authorities arrested supporters of putin critic alexei navalny, protesting outside his prison camp, including his personal doctor. a cnn team and other journalists were also briefly held. navalny is on a hunger strike over what he alleges is a lack of proper medical care for back and leg pain, which russian authorities deny. though his team -- through his team narks valny also says he has a high fever and his lawyer tells the guardian he is, quote, seriously ill. a russian newspaper reported
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navalny was moved to his prison's medical unit but nbc news has not confirmed that detail. sky news correspondent deanna magnay filed this report from outside the prison a short time ago. diana? >> i'm outside penal colony number two in the town about 100 kilometers east of moscow which is where alexei navalny is currently in jail. according to the avestia newspaper, he's been moved to a prison hospital here. although we haven't been able to confirm that ourselves. last night he got the message out on instagram via his lawyers that he has a high fever and a severe cough. he also said three of his cellmates had been hospitalized for tuberculosis, although the paper cited prison officials as saying that wasn't true. that comes on top of a hunger strike which is now on day six that he called because he said he's not getting the medical attention that he needs for
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severe back pain and numbness in both his legs, which he said was probably caused by some kind of trapped nerve in the succession of prison vehicles and police cells he's been in ever since his return from germany where, of course, he was recovering from a novichok nerve agent attack. so it is quite a cumulation of health problems which are concerning to his supporters. today a few supporters came down here to try and demand that the prison let in a qualified medical specialist to see alexei to check on his conditions and how he's doing but their demands were not met. in fact, six of them were arrested. we have not been allowed to get into the prison, but as you might expect, russian media was last week. maria bhutina was jailed in the u.s. in 2018 as a foreign agent, went in there, and her reports
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detailed how alexei's conditions were far preferable to what she experienced in the u.s. it's the kind of narrative that you might expect from kremlin media. as for the kremlin itself, they have, of course, always denied anything to do with the poisoning of alexei navalny and today the kremlin's spokesman said that any prisoner who is ill will get the appropriate treatment. geoff? >> thanks. the u.s. and iran are beginning indirect talks over salvaging the iran nuclear deal which the u.s. pulled out of in 2018 under former president trump. countries still part of the accord are meeting in vienna with the u.s. delegation close by. joining us with more from iran is nbc news tehran bureau chief ali aruzzi. >> the first round of nuclear talks between iran and world powers in vienna has ended and expectations have been met in so far as there is no breakthrough nor breakdown. the meeting ended with all sides
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agreeing to continue consultations at expert level this friday where they'll told discussions about sanctions relief and how to get iran back into full compliance. but these are still very early days. it's also important to be clear eyed that there are significant political and technical challenges to bypass both in tehran and washington, leaving a tricky path to navigate. crucially, iran is still insisting the sanctions need to be removed before the needle moves in tehran. during the meeting, the head of the iranian delegation stressed the removal of u.s. sanctions is the first and most important step in order to revive the nuclear deal, and that shouldn't come as a big surprise. it's a position maintained by iran's supreme leader and reiterated consistently by iranian officials. then there's the added complication of the biden administration seeking a longer and stronger deal that addresses
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iran's missile program and regional influence. and a notion that's been dismissed out of hand by tehran who says those issues are completely off the table. we're also hearing from iranian media that an offer was made to the iranian delegation to stop 20% enrichment in return for about a billion dollars of iranian assets being unfrozen. the iranian delegation turned down that offer. nonetheless, just the fact that these meetings are taking place is a step in the right direction, even if tehran and washington aren't talking directly. there may not be a solid diplomatic solution at this point but efforts at diplomacy are being made. back here in washington, any moment now, president biden will head to the state dining room in the white house to announce that all american adults will be eligible to receive the covid vaccine starting on april 19th. this comes hours after he visited a vaccine distribution site just across the river in
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alexandria, virginia. so now let's go to nbc news kelly o'donnell who joins us from the white house. good to see you, friend. what else are we expecting to hear from the president when he speaks moments from now? >> we expect a few key things. the white house wants to emphasize that by april 19th, all adults in the u.s. will be eligible to sign up to get in line, if you will, for their vaccine. so as we've watched the age eligibility or occupation eligibility or personal health history eligibility come into play in different states, now it will be all american adults able to sign up and get in line. the white house is saying that seniors should especially hurry up and get in line now because there may be more demand as more people are eligible. the president when he was touring that alexandria, virginia, suburban, washington, d.c., vaccination site talked about the importance of going there, bringing the network cameras along so that the public will see people getting shots in arms as the president was standing right there. as further evidence that they
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should get the shots. the president also said you'll hear about variants, and he said some of those are virulent and scary, but that the various vaccines currently available work against those variants as well. encouraging people to take the shot. so part of what the white house is doing here, they say, is an educational push to make sure there's clarity in the minds of the public that they won't have to wait for a longer period based on their age or what have you to qualify. it comes at a time when many governors around the world already established these rules. it has been a patchwork state by state about when people are eligible. so they'll tout that as well as an expectation that the president says that there will be 200 million doses administered by his 100 days in office at the end of the month. geoff? >> kelly, as we keep an eye on that, for now empty podium in the state dining room, i want to ask you about these vaccine passports because we've heard from a number of republicans who have expressed concerns about
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the potential use of these vaccine passports either for international travel or even for things like getting into a concert or sporting event back when -- assuming those come online some time soon. what's the white house saying about this issue? >> well, the white house is saying that's not our thing. now as you point out, there are different ways that as parts of our society and economy reopen and people emerge and there are chances to congregate in larger groups than we've been doing in the last year-plus, is there a way to demonstrate that you've had a vaccine. when you get the shots there is a little card that comes with it that is not a secure document like a traveling passport. and so there's been some talk, would there need to be this kind of document? the white house is saying they'll not be part of that. it came up in the briefing today. here's press secretary jen psaki. >> the government is not now nor will we be supporting a system that requires americans to carry a credential. there will be no federal
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vaccinations database and no federal mandate requiring everyone to obtain a single vaccination credential. as these tools are being considered by the private and nonprofit sectors, our interest is simple from the federal government, which is americans' privacy and rights should be protected so that these systems are not used against people unfairly. >> so they are going to say, in essence, that if your employer, for example, wants you to demonstrate that you've been vaccinated, that's something that an employer can do or a private organization. but the government is not going to get behind, at least at the federal level, any kind of a proof of vaccination card that we would have to show. geoff? >> got it. the federal government is not in the vaccine passport business. nbc's kelly o'donnell, thanks for your time this afternoon. let's head to capitol hill where president biden's massive infrastructure plan just got a bit of a boost. the senate parliamentarian now says that budget rules will allow democrats to use reconciliation to pass the $2.3
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trillion plan. that means the bill can pass with just 51 votes and bypass a potential republican filibuster. joining us now is nbc news leigh ann caldwell on capitol hill. so what does this all mean for the infrastructure push? >> well, geoff, that's right. the infrastructure plan did get a boost by this ruling by the senate parliamentarian. but the road ahead is also quite bumpy because just because the parliamentarian says they can use this reonciliation process that we were talking about just a few weeks ago, the fact they can use it again, means democrats have to get all 50 of their own on the same page. and they're not quite there yet. senator joe manchin of west virginia has expressed concerns about the corporate tax rate, raising that to 28%. he says he doesn't want to go much above 25%. but he's not alone. senator mark warner of virginia,
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although he wasn't specific on what his concerns were, he said that he's not completely on board with the biden plan just yet either. so there's still a lot of negotiations that have to be done among democrats. and as far as republicans are concerned, it seems like democrats are going alone, but the white house, jen psaki, said today that the president is going to invite members of congress to the white house next week to talk about infrastructure. that's the same thing the president did with covid relief as well. there was still no republican support. so while it does look like they're going down this partisan path, they still have a lot of work to do just to get their own members on the same page, geoff. >> leigh ann, if you could clear up something for us. if democrats use reconciliation again if they are allowed to use it again, the underlying rules for budget reconciliation still
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apply. they couldn't then use this to pass voting rights. they couldn't use it to pass, you know, immigration overhaul because ultimately, whatever they pass, has to have some sort of impact on the budget, is that right? >> that's absolutely right. it has to have an impact on the budget so some of the democratic priorities cannot fit within budget reconciliation like you mentioned voting rights, gun control legislation. some components of immigration, although some immigration advocates say that some aspects of it could be done through reconciliation. that's a fight down the road and something that's going to be debated, geoff. >> nbc's leigh ann caldwell, thanks as always. as we wait for the president's remarks on vaccinations, i'll be joined by the chair of the house transportation and infrastructure committee. what's his take on president biden's pitch to use a corporate tax hike to fix our country's infrastructure? you're watching msnbc reports. (vo) ideas exist inside you, electrify you.
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at the top of hour, how democrats will hold a virtual meeting with treasury secretary janet yellen to talk about the biden administration's efforts to rebuild the economy. it's all happening as some democrats are expressing concerns about raising corporate taxes to help pay for fixing america's crumbling infrastructure. >> the bill will not be in the same form you've seen it introduced.
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we're -- i'm not talking about raising taxes, other than i think corporate should never have been below 25. it's more than just me. there's six or seven more democrats who feel strongly. we have to be competitive. joining us is peter defazio, who will play a key role in this process, because he's chair of the house transportation and infrastructure committee. thanks for being with us. >> thank you. your name has synonymous with infrastructure. why is this so needed, in your view? >> we've been living off the legacy of dwight eisenhower. we built the interstate system with the threat threat. the new era is climb changes.
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the eisenhower era has aged out. bridges are collapsing. americans are tired of potholes, tired of water they can't drink. they're way ahead of congress on this. we can argue forever about how you pay for it. we've got to get this done. it's been put off for too long. we can rebuild it, resilient to climate change. we can electrify it to deal with fossil fuel pollutes. we can deal with issues of equity, which the president has emphasized and rejoin neighborhoods that were split asunder. and the minority who haven't been served by the system and we can put millions of people to work. the rate of return is phenomenal. moody's and georgetown we get
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1 1/2 bucks back for every dollar we put in. >> how do you pay for it? where do you stand in this debate over how high to raise the corporate tax rates? >> i'm not on the ways and means committee. i don't get to say how to pay for it, but like every other democrat in the house and the senate, i voted against the trump tax plan. we can debate what the proper level is for corporations, but the 55 largest most profitable corporation in america, they paid negative. they didn't pay taxes. they got rebates. that's crazy. the american people don't think that's fair when they're being dinged from their first dallas with the fica tax. traditionally we have used user fees. we can bond and have user fees.
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this is has been put out of for far too long. we could just even borrow the money, you know if you own a company and you're going to expand your factory, a bank will lend you moan. this is rebuilding our country. >> what do you make of the republican argument, as jan kennedy said, this is a green new deal, a welfare and being charitable, he says, less than 10% of the bill is devoted to infrastructure. what's your reaction to that? >> i would say way more than 10% is devoted. you look at harbors, wastewater, you go to energy and commerce, you look at drinking water. broadband is infrastructure, and, you know, it's way more
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than that fraction that he's talking about. by the way, he comes from a state that's sinking, and they need incredible investments in their infrastructure because of the sea level rise. that goes to the corps of engineers for protecting new orleans and other areas. these are all definitive infrastructure. >> the public appears to be on board for this, but clearly not republican colleagues. one of the reasons the president sought to divide this into two. was to potential get some republican buy-in. how do democrats go about doing that successfully, do you think? >> well, i've been working with my republican colleagues on the company. we did harbor maintenance last year and other critical bills. the ranking republican and i
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have agreed to support member-directed projects, which means a lot of members can have some skin in the game through a reform process. there won't be any scandals from this, but why should it be the state bureaucrats or state capital if you know where all money goes. i'm now trying to work with that on policy. we held a hearing two weeks ago. they don't have to believe in climate change, but gm is going all electric. where are people going to charge their cars? fred smith testified from fedex. they can come -- they don't have to believe in climate change, because they pretend they don't. >> congressman, thank you for
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your time, sir. >> thanks for the opportunity. and to honor the capitol police officer, nancy pelosi and senate majority leader chuck schumer announced today that officer billy evans will lie in honor at the rotunda next tuesday. he was an 18-year veteran of the force and the father of those two children there. his family released a statement -- his death has left a gaping void in our lives. the statement continues -- while family was always first, billy had the opening, welcoming person that led him to make friends with anyone he left. he relished in making sure everyone was included and was proud to be a capitol police officer. that wraps it up for me.
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hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. in just a few moments president biden will make two major announcements in the historic push to get america vaccinated. president biden will ask all states to move of the deadline by two weeks. and had he'll announce that 150 million shots having administered blowing past his first goal of 100 million in the first 100 days, putting america on tech to hit the goal of 200 million in 100 days. the president's remarks will begin any moment now. the accelerating pace of vac nation


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