that does it for us tonight. thank you so much for watching. rachel will be back here tomorrow. i'm here in my basement. you know what i mean. i'll see you at 4:00 eastern tomorrow. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. hi, lawrence. >> good evening, nicole. i'm just guessing it's my coal by the sound of your voice because there is absolutely nothing on my monitor right now

around thank you for filling in on rachel tonight on a night she needed to take off. >> thank you, lawrence, have a freight show. >> thanks, i'll be watching tomorrow, nicole. thank you. well, today jay nye delivered the most important expert testimony of the trial so far. from dr. martin tobin took the witness stand. >> how long have you been a physician, sir? >> i have been a physician for three months short of 46 years, over 45 years. >> and where did you go to school? >> i went to medical school in dublin, ireland, and i took my degree there. >> not that anybody noticed the accent. but are you from dublin? >> no, i'm not from dublin. i'm from a small village called frankfort in rural ireland.

>> 662 people at last count live in the village of fresh? ford in the county of kilkenny where he grew up. its 70 miles west of dublin, where he went to medical school and coming to united states first in miami and now in chicago and along the way, martin tobin has become run u one of the world's leading authorities on pulmonary and critical care mid sin. his work has been published many times in the most important medical journals in the world. he is an expert on how we all stay alive moment to moment by breathing. dr. tobin's clarity and authority effortlessly held everyone in his grip for every second that he was speaking. >> how long can the brain go without oxygen? >> that's well worked out, if

you stop the flow of oxygen to the brain, you lose consciousness in 8 seconds. >> eight seconds. the stunned silence that you just heard after dr. tobin spoke was exactly eight seconds long. that is how much time it would take for george floyd to go from saying, "i can't breathe," to dying. eight seconds. >> so it tells you how dangerous this is the concept of, if you can breathe or if you can speak, you can breathe. yes, that is true. on the surface. but highly misleading. very, a very dangerous mantra out there. the cause of death is a low

level of oxygen that caused the brain damage and caused the heart to stop. >> dr. tobin delivered the single-most haunting line of expert testimony in the trial so far when he identified the precise moment when the life goes out of george floyd's body. a 17-year-old bravely held up her phone to record video testified she regrets she didn't do more. she testified that she can't sleep at night wishing she could have taken action to stop what derek chauvin was doing to george floyd. but the action that she did take enabled martin tobin to identify that haunting moment and so today in court, the work of a 17-year-old girl from minneapolis minneapolis, teams up with the expertise of a world renowned medical scientist from

a small village in ireland to deliver the most important moment in the trial while the jury was being shown. darnella frazier's video. >> you can see his eyes, he's conscious. and then you see that he isn't. p that's the moment the life goes out of his body. >> dr. tobin said that no one could have survived what george floyd was subjected to. >> a healthy person subjected to what mr. floyd was subjected to would have died as a result of what he was subjected to. >> dr. tobin testified that nothing in george floyd's medical history contributed to his death and nothing in george floyd's history of drug use, including small traces of drugs found in his system contributed to his death.

dr. tobin testified that the police officers's weights holding down george floyd essentially shut down his left lung. >> because of the knee that was rammed in against the left side of his chest, sometimes the knee was down on the arm or in against the chest, so this would have the same effects of basically on the left side of his lung, it was almost like a surgically -- almost to the effect if a surgeon had gone in and removed the lung. >> dr. tobin gave the jury a new crucially important time measurement. using police body cam video that was being shown to the jury at the time, dr. tobin testified that the amount of time from when george floyd takes his last breath to when derek chauvin takes his knee off george

floyd's neck was three minutes, 27 seconds. >> when he last take a breath, the knee remains on the neck for another three minutes and 27 seconds after he takes his last breath. there is the knee remains after there is no pulse, the knee remains on the neck for another two minutes and 44 seconds after the officers have found themselves, there is no pulse, the knee remains on the neck another two minutes 44 seconds. >> thank you, dr. tobin, no further questions. >> reading off our discussion tonight, the professor of law at new york university and a former law clerk to justice sonia sotomayor, she is an msnbc contributor and the director of the 21st century policing project is the former new york city police detective and professor mari, let me begin

with you. this testimony we've heard today, many commentaries have already said the most powerful expert testimony yet, especially in a case where the entire defense has presented in the opening statement by defense counsel is going to be about cause of death. >> i think that's exactly right, lawrence. not only was this the most important expert testimony we've heard so far. it was probably the most effective. everything the reporters in the courtroom have said that jury was absolutely wrapped as dr. tobin walk them through the entire nine minutes and 29 second george floyd was thrown ought and explain to them in layman's terms, incredibly technical material that made clear that asphyxiation hypoxia were the contributing causes of death. as you say, that's the factors here. the first question is whether offense chauvin's direct cause

of the death. once that's established, it refers to the defense that officer chauvin, his use of force was reasonable under the circumstances. so first determining that cause of death is absolutely critical. >> and professor burkehalter, the examples that dr. tobin reached for when he was trying to make a medical point to this jury were so excessable and made so much sense. he talked about the absence of bruising which is defense is going to want to make a lot of, they're going to make that a major why, an absence of bruising to the neck of george floyd. he used an example of going to church to make his point about that. let's listen to that. >> there was also a reference made to the absence of bruising on the neck during autopsy. >> yes. >> does that make any difference to you whatsoever? >> no, obviously, whenever i go to church, i sit on a hard

bench. i don't get bruising of my buttocks when i leave. so i wouldn't expect anything if tomorrows of that so if you have somebody, this was a static force. it's not as if somebody is jamming against it. so you wouldn't expect anything in the way of bruising. >> professor burkehalter, your reaction to that. >> i thought it was really quite amazing. you know, expert witnesses sometime can really kill you because they're overly technical and the jury don't understand i want. the doctor said the way she described this intensely dense and important subject matter was aken to you know the best fooe teacher or professor you ever had and you felt like, wow, i'm riveted to my seat and i understand every word this person is saying, even though the subject smatter so complicated. he is the first person if i'm not mistaken to address the lack of bruising on the body and every time the defense has had an opportunity, they have certainly made a point about

that. it seems like common sense that there would be bruising, but here he gave this explanation that just really hit home and those are the things that tend to stick with lay people more so than the technical descriptions. >> and professor, i think we can detect a pattern here where a lead prosecutor jerry blackwell, who is especially hired just for this case seems to always be the one who gets up to hand him the most important moments in the trial. it's almost a message to the jury that if prosecutor blackwell is on his feet, pay attention, this is a very, very important moment. he delivered the opening statement for the prosecution and he has stepped in on days like today for this kind of crucial testimony. >> that's exactly right. a trial is nothing more than a choreographed story-telling session between the lawyers and the jury, itself. and here, every time they set

up, the jury knows he is about to say something pivotal to the case to make the underlying point that the state has to approve and again has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt in order to secure a condition here. again, they're dog masterful job of being consistent on that messaging to the jury. >> and another thing we heard from dr. tobin today is what doesn't show up in autopsy reports and that frequently can be as important as what is in an autopsy report and he made the point that there actually isn't a way of seeing the loss of oxygen in an autopsy report. he says, that doesn't leave a fingerprint. let's listen to the way he said that. >> no objection jen is a function of just like an arrhythmia is a function. it doesn't leave a fingerprint on the alms. it's just there. it's something that happened. it's -- but it won't leave any

fingerprint afterwards. you don't see it. >> but it doesn't mean a person didn't die of lack of oxygen? >> if you take somebody and yusuf indicate them with a pillow, it's very clear to you, the person is dead from the pillow, you will not see the effects of the low oxygen. >> professor burkehalter, another example of the way dr. tone was able to make these things so clear to the jury. >> yes. and this was really an important strategy for the prosecution. so what the prosecution was doing here with dr. tobin was actually attacking the defense's case before they had an opportunity to put it off. the defense has been pointing to this, you know, issues surrounding whether there was a lack of oxygen, not a look of oxygen, what was not found in the body and trying to get the jury to draw inferences from that. so knowing what your adversary's theory of the case is going to be, it's your job to preempt

that attack. don't wait for your adversary to take that pre-shot. that's what the prosecution did by putting dr. tobin on the stand, they did it in a rather artful manner. we saw that the defense got up on cross and attempted to walk back some of those things and the prosecution i thought it was rather masterful at being, giving a redirect that was crisp, short, to the point, did george floyd die of a covid? did this happen? no, the millie seconds, does it matter in the totality of the event? it was crisp and that's what the jury was left with. >> it was such a point, blackwell comes back on redirect after there has been a cross examination by defense counsel, professor, he comes back with such confidence about it and kind of dispatches everything you just heard in the defense cross examination in a matter of a couple of minutes. >> it's very crisp.

it's very succinct. it will stay with the jury. to ask what you professor burkehalter said, the other point of this testimony that's critically important in anticipating the defense to come is basically a battle of the medical examiners. the medical examiner who performed the autopsy will be a key part of the defense's case going forward is going to say, this wasn't caused by a lack of oxygen but rather a heart attack, cardiac arrest. what they are saying is this person never had contact. they never saw him in the prone position and as a consequent, they didn't know what to look what was hiding in plain sight that low level of oxygen that actually was the cause of death. so they anticipated it and rebutted it be every the defense has had a chance to make that case. >> we have to go to a break. i have to ask you one more thing. it's about police training. because today on the witness stand, dr. tobin really destroyed the idea that if you can speak you can breathe and we heard that in police training in the past, that has been a bake

message in training. when you were trained for the nypd, was that the theory at the time, if they can speak, they can breathe? >> well, believe it or not, it goes a little further than that. there was no training with regards to what asphyxia looks like, what will happen if someone was being choked out, so to speak. programs you had asked the question. this was many years ago as training evolved. it does show the need where training by medical officials and something, while i have great respect for men and women, they're police officers, it might be a time where we start integrating more civilians into the training process, perhaps someone like dr. tobin might be an effective person to start with. >> thank you both for starting off our discussion tonight. i really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thank you. >>. coming up, congressman matt

gaetz had a bad day in court. even though he wasn't in court. but his friend joel greenberg was. he couldn't provide information to prosecutors about matt gaetz in the federal investigation of congressman for the sex trafficking of a minor. former federal prosecutor andrew weissman joins us next. cutor anw weissman joins us next ordinary antiperspirants. the new provitamin b5 formula is gentle on skin. with secret, outlast anything! no sweat. secret when it comes to autism, finding the right words can be tough. finding understanding doesn't have to be. we can create a kinder, more inclusive world for the millions of people on the autism spectrum. go to autismspeaks.org. cranky-pated: a bad mood related to a sluggish gut. miralax is different. it works naturally with the water in your body to unblock your gut.

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. justice department prosecutors may have a new key witness in the federal investigation of congressman matt gaetz. that new witness could be matt gaetz' friend joel greenberg, who faces currently 12 years in prison for charges of sex trafficking of a minor as well as stalking, bribery and while he was at it defrauding the pandemic-related paycheck protection program. during a procedural hearing today in the case against him that lasted only six minutes,

lawyers for both joel greenberg and a federal government said that they expect the case to be resolved with a plea by may 15th. here's what joel greenberg's attorney said outside the federal court in orlando, florida today. >> does he have anything to worry about? >> discuss matt gaetz -- that is such a -- does he have anything to worry about? you are asking me to get into the mind of that case? >> reporter: from your mind? >> from my mind? >> based on what your client has. >> based on what my client has? i thought if i kept on talking, i could avoid this question. i have to say i'm sure matt gaetz is not feeling very

comfortable. >> yes, it was a strange camera angle for a very strange sounding lawyer. joel greenberg's lawyer did not say whether his client provided information about matt gaetz to federal prosecutors. he said joel greenberg is uniquely positioned, that was his phrase, to do that the "new york times" says they have known him since 2017 when he began serving in congress could provide prosecutors with a witness who has a deep knowledge of mr. gaetz' dealing and how they paid women and bought and used drugs like ecstasy. congressman gaetz has denied that he violated any laws. joining us now is andrew weissman, former general counsel and member of the mueller investigation. he is now an msnbc analyst. andrew, you are reading on where this situation i don't know what to call it.

i can't quite call it the gaetz case, where this situation was as of tonight with a possible guilty plea in the greenberg case? >> you know, a lot of people try to be very careful when reading tea leaves at this point, but there is no question that today was, you know, a big tea leaf for reading. you know, for weeks, we have been looking at the fact that there will be a very good paper trail that there is going to be records of financial transactions. it seems to be witnesses, whether they're in congress or staffers for even matt gaetz, who may be witnesses, there are going to be victims because the women who are involved are all going to be interviewed. but today signaled something that although it is not clear yet, it is certainly looking like greenberg will become a

cooperating witness and as your viewers and you know having an insider is critical. with someone like greenberg, they will make sure they can corroborate what he says. will you never go to trial based on his word. if he ends up flipping, that will be a huge development. >> and i have to say you know when i see who your lawyer, is i get a sense of who you are in some situations and that lawyer today outside the federal courthouse in orlando kind of rambling on about questions that he should not have responded to at all. it was really striking to me because it indicates that we could be hearing all sorts of strange things developing in this case from all sorts of source like possibly lawyers like that. >> well, one thing that was a chip off. there is no question that you would expect him to have been a little more polished and

prepared to either speak or not speak. but the tip-off i think that he is really going to contemplate cooperating is that that was not as inarticulate as it was. it was not the statement of somebody who is planning to fight the government, that is planning on either defending himself at trial or trying to anticipate what they're going to say at sentencing and i sense that attention in terms of, you know, what can i say but not really hurt the government when my client becomes cooperator? so that was the reticents. >> to go to the situation that's developing where donald trump and matt gaetz seem to be in a race who ends up as a criminal

defendant. donald trump multiple exposures in georgia and manhattan and matt gaetz i guess hoping for some public encouragement from donald trump that he's not really getting? >> yeah, but i think one of the things that this is real education for your audience in terms of how a case is made. if you look at what's happening, joe greenberg was facing a host of charges. he was on his third superseding indictment. so he is facing an enormous amount of time. in manhattan, the prosecutors are clearly trying to flip insiders like the cfo of the trump organization. to do that, they need to develop the same kind of case that you've seen the federal prosecutors in florida develop with respect to greenberg. because that's how you flip people. >> now, matt gaetz still has hasn't said anything that really goes straight at these

accusations in terms of, he hasn't presented anything that we could look at and say, well, that's a kind of conventioning form of denial to what he is possibly being accused of. >> that is actually smart of his defense lawyer. wait and see what the government has and then poke holes in it. because right now just giving blanket denials is probably smart strategy and then wait to see what happens. but that's not an enviable position to be in at this point in that wait-and-see mode. because all signs are that he is going to be charged. one thing i would point out is at times he has spoken, where he's given specifics, which has to do with this bizarre extortion claim. that could very well be the subject of an obstruction of justice charge. the sex trafficking statute,

itself, has an obstruction provision. there is also a general obstruction charge. that is certainly going to be something to look at. whether they get to the end of the road, we'll see. >> andrew weissman, thank you for joining us tonight. we always appreciate it. >> my pleasure. >> thank you. coming up, it could be, as i say, that matt gaetz is now in a race with donald trump to see who can become a criminal defendant first. donald trump has a bit of a head start. he has hired a new criminal defense lawyer as the manhattan district attorney has now suspended documents from the former daughter in law of trump's accountant. former manhattan prosecutor and lead counsel to the house during donald trump's first impeachment inquiry, daniel goldman, will join us next. join us next.

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jury investigating donald trump and his business is not full of republican senators, donald trump needs real criminal defense lawyers to handle that case. the "wall street journal" reports the trump organization has hired a criminal defense lawyer. ronald feschetti, who handled organized crime defendants. the washington post is reporting that the former daughter-in-law of trump accountant allen weisselberg handed over the important documents suspended by the grand jury. she told the washington post in an interview, my knowledge of the documents and my voice connect the flow of money from various banks and from personal finances that bleed directly into the trump organization. joining our discussion is daniel goldman for the southern district of new york. he was the lead counsel during

president trump's first impeachment inquiry. thank you very much for joining us tonight. you know all of these players in the new york criminal bar. what do you make of this new hiring on the trump side? >> i find it very interesting. i tried a case against ron, he is an excellent trial lawyer. but he is the last person you would want to hire to cycle through a lot of documents. that is not ron's forte. she really a trial lawyer. he's an outstanding cross examinationer. he's not someone that the trump organization is bringing in to distill the tax returns and the bank records. that's not what he does. so that tells me that they're gearing up for some sort of significant dchs work that needs to be done and in light of the information that came out about the daughter in law cooperating,

providing documents and clearly being very eager to provide not only the documents but her own testimony about what her ex-husband and perhaps her exfather-in-law have said is an indication that this investigation is certainly heating up. >> one of the interesting notes here is that this new hire by the trump team attorney used to be a law partner of mark polleranz, who has been hired by the district attorney's office to help out, if not lead, this prosecution. >> that's right. they practiced together in the '80s before he went back to the southern district of new york and became the criminal chief or the head of the criminal division, the head of all the prosecutors. i don't read much into that. i think that ron freshetti and

allen futerfas has been long-time colleagues and travel in a lot of the same corruption organized crime case circles and that's my guess as to why ron was brought in. but, lawrence, this, as andrew just said in the last segment about how you build a case it's very interesting to me that barry weisselberg, allen's son is suddenly in the hot seat. he also works for the trump organization and, you know, one way to get to work your way up as you start low on the ladder so to speak and barry could be a target for some tax fraud charges now that we know that the trump organization tax returns have gone over to the da. there may be other white collar type of fraud cases that they're looking into. if you charge barry, does barry

then start to cooperate against others in the organization? so, this is prosecution 101. it's what's going on with joel greenberg in the matt gaetz case and the manhattan office is joining in on the trump organization case. >> one of the things when you see an investigation moving towards an individual or company, is there a possibility for a plea agreement? i think with donald trump, we all know that that's impossible. it would be impossible for him to agree to some kind of guilty plea in manhattan or georgia and that his strategy is going to have to be feeting it out if court all the way? >> that's for sure. the real question is right now as i kind of look at this from the outside, we know donald trump does not e-mail. in order to charge donald trump,

particularly with tax fraud case, insurance fraud, bank fraud, you are going to need a cooperating witness who had direct conversations with donald trump about the illegal conduct. it's almost a sure thing that that's what you are going to need in order to prove any case against him. so that's why alan weisselberg seems to be a key possible defendant and potential witness. because he is the one who would have had those conversations. without someone like him, i don't think -- i think it's very hard to make a case against donald trump. daniel goldman, thank you for your invaluable expertise on the workings of criminal prosecutions in new york. we really appreciate it. >> my pleasure. thanks, for having me. coming up, congressman joe nagoose was in the rose garden when president biden announced

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today in the rose garden with guests that included members of congress and families of gun violence victims and the survivors of gun violence, president biden announced a series of executive orders to reduce gun violence. >> our flag was still flying at half-staff for the victims of a hor risk murder of eight, primarily aiding american people in georgia. but ten more lives were taken in a mass murder in colorado. you probably didn't hear it, but between those two incidents less than one week apart, there were more than 850 additional shootings. 850 that took the lives of more

than 250 people and left 500, 500 injured. this is an epidemic, for god's sake. around it has to stop. >> just before the president's speech, there was a mass shooting in south carolina today. five people were killed, including two children and just after the president's speech today there was another mass shooting in brian, texas. one person has died. four people are in critical condition and another is in non-critical condition. one of the president's orders will stop the proliferation of ghost guns untraceable guns. another order requires the registration of stabilizing braces and modification that gives pistols a firing position like rifles that increases their accuracy. the suspect in the supermarket mass murder in boulder, california last month allegedly used one of those stabilizing

braces. joining us now is democratic congressman joe neguse who was in the rose garden today and represents boulder, colorado, where ten people were murdered at a supermarket on march 22nd. congressman, whaflts it like to be in the rose garden there today? i couldn't help thinking as i was watching it, if there were a republican president, none of that would be happening today? >> i think that's certainly the case, lawrence. that was certainly my observation as well at the rose garden during there important ceremony. i'm very grateful to the president for taking action. as you know, it's been a difficult few weeks if boulder, colorado, in my community is very much healing and grieving after a terrible tragedy occurred at the king supermarket, my constituents made it clear inaction is not an option. a number of us in congress have been imploring the president to take action and take steps to

save lives. we sent a letter to him last week requesting he have a concealable assault-style weapons used allegedly by the shooter in boulder as well as if dayton, ohio and other location across the country, where tragedies like these have occurred and we are grateful that the president took that step. he announced he would take that to promulgate regulation and ensure they are under the national firearms act are enforced, in addition to a number of other important steps today. it was a very important day. it's a set of first steps for us to underscore that there is a lot more that we have to do. >> the president mentioned today that when he was a senator in the early 1990s, he managed to get passed a ban of assault weapons and it was a ten-year ban. that's the deal they had to make. they had to put a so-called

legislative end on it to get it passed. it worked to reduce these kind of mass killings and because george w. bush was elected president when that ten years expired, absolutely no action was taken to extend that ban and this president would like to bring it back. >> i certainly agree with him. the fact that the president is willing to so boldly state the need for reenstatement of the assault weapons ban i think is evidence of his commitment to ending gun violence in america and as you said, the empirical data speaks for itself. it's clear the efficacy of the assault weapons ban that was enacted in fine 94 clearly worked in our country and reduced the pervasives in of mass shootings. i would also say what has changed, unfortunately, is that the congress has lacked the

political will to ultimately to what it did successfully 25 years ago. but i think that that pendulum is beginning to shift again. i honestly believe in conversations with my colleagues and so many others that folks are tired of excuses and they're ready to finally make some progress on this issue to save lives in our community and communities across the country. >> one thing i was struck by in the way the president handled this today was doing everything he can at the executive order level and then at the same time that he's doing that recognizing that it's not enough. he doesn't come out and say problems solved. and he lays out the aspirations he has legislatively beyond the executive orders. >> it's a salient point, lawrence, obviously, the president has broad authority constitutionally and under statute to issue the executive orders that he issued today. they will certainly make a difference as i said, i believe the executive orders he issued today will ultimately save lives, but at the end of the

day, it will take the united states congress mustering the necessary political will to enact these common sense gun violence reform measures that the american public so broadly supports. so his willingness to use the bully pulpit to demand, to implore us in congress to get this done was a welcome action today and certainly i am hopeful that we can build on that in the coming weeks and months. >> congressman neguse, thank you very much for joining us tonight. we appreciate it. >> thank you, lawrence. >> thank you. coming up, we'll be joined, once again, by the person who has logged more appearances on this program than any other 91. that's right, the leader of nuns on the bus, president obama personally thanked her for her work in helping to pass the affordable care act and joe biden once signed her bus. how many people can say he

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#. sister simone campbell announced last week she has completed her work as executive director for the network lobby of catholic social justice and will be moving on to other ventures that might or might not involve nuns on a bus. sister simone was an important ally for president obama and the democrats trying to pass the affordable care act. in march of 2010 she published what came to be known as the nun's letter. she wrote, despite false claims to the contrary, the senate bill will not provide taxpayer funding for elective aborgs. it will uphold long standing conscience protections, and it will make historic new investments. $250 million, in support of pregnant women. this is the real pro-life stance, and we as catholics are

all for it." . when the affordable care act became law president obama thanked sister simone privately. in 2012 sister simone spoke at the national democratic convention. >> in cincinnati i met jenny who had just come from her sister's memorial service. when jenny's sister margaret lost her job she lost her health insurance. she developed cancer and had no access to diagnosis or treatment. she died unnecessarily, and that is tragic. and it is wrong. the affordable care act will cover people like margaret. >> president obama invited sister simone to the oval office when she organized nuns on the bus to oppose congressional republicans budget proposals. in 2013 sister simone testified before the house budget committee which was then chaired

by fellow catholic congressman paul ryan. >> everyone has a right to eat in -- to realize their human dignity. and therefore there is a -- in our position, a government responsibility to ensure everyone's capacity to eat. >> joining us now is sister simone campbell, the leader of nuns on the bus, she's a former executive director of the catholic advocacy group network. sister simone. does this mean you have more or less time to be on the bus? >> well, lawrence, it's going to be interesting to see. i believe i'm going to take a vacation for a little bit. i have four months off for a sabbatical and then we'll see what's next. >> i know you'll be active. i remember moderating a discussion in washington that you helped organize. involving rural issues. there's so many -- you have such a range of interests that

doesn't always get expressed, let's say, in these kinds of segments that we do. and so what have you learned in your experience in dealing with washington that you want to bring into the rest of your work? >> well, actually learning from the rural round tables as well as from the bus what we've learned is that listening to people around the country, people who ordinarily don't get heard, and bringing those messages back to d.c. is critically important. we're informing members of congress as well as the administration about the reality on the ground. and it's out of that reality on the ground we can make good change for the entire nation. broad band is one of those issues that's being picked up now, finally, as a national issue. we need to address that and to ensure that all have access. and we know that because of our conversations around the

country. >> in leaving this job certain things happen, like you get a letter from the president of the united states. i want to read what president biden said in his letter to you as you step down from this job. he said as catholics we are called to serve rather than be served, to love our neighbors as ourselves, and to be our brothers' and sisters' keepers. you exemplify these tenets of our faith, and i am so grateful for the passion you bring to everything you do. your support and friendship mean the world to me. god bless you." . what was it like when you received that letter? >> well, i have to say, i was so touched by it. and i know that the president values his faith deeply and to think that i've been a support to him in making challenging decisions, in caring so passionately for the american

people i was really humbled and heartened by it, and i have to confess i got a tear or two in my eye. it just really touched me. >> when you see the work that needs to be done by the biden administration that you fully supported the election of, what do you see as their biggest challenge is this. >> well, i think one of the big challenges is they're not mentioning the last president and the fact that the government itself is decimated because of the policies of the last president, the last administration. and so rather than naming that problem they're just working to make change and that shows up most in immigration. the challenge of addressing the immigration issues at the border are huge. and we need to both fix the law in congress as well as build a

system that can respond with compassion and clarity to the people at the border. >> we're going to have to -- we're going need to hear more from you about that on this program. sister simone campbell, thank you very much for joining us again tonight. >> thank you, lawrence. >> sister simone gets to want's last word. "the 11th hour" with brian williams starts now. good evening once again, i'm ali velshi in for brian williams on this, day 79 of the biden administration. florida congressman matt gaetz is facing a new and potentially much more serious level of legal jeopardy. he's under federal investigation for potential sex trafficking, possibly involving a minor, and that case grew out of a broader probe involving a close associate and ally, a man named joel greenberg who's facing an array of federal charges himself, also