something that we at msnbc or nbc news has confirmed that cnn has just reported within the last few minutes on a statement they say they received from the new york attorney general. as you, know the former president trump is making history as the only former president to have ever been known to be under criminal investigation. he's under criminal investigation. by state prosecutors and new york and also in the state of georgia. he is also, his business interests are known to be under civil investigation by the new york attorney generals office. well again, person and tonight, they say they've received a statement from the new york attorney general office saying this. we've informed the trump organization that our investigation into the organization is no longer purely civil in nature, we are now actively investigating the trump organization in a criminal capacity. along with the manhattan da, the new york state prosecutor who is already known to be investigating him in criminal terms. again, that is not been confirmed right now by msnbc without a cnn's reporting.

if so that remarks yet another historic benchmark in what is turning in to be a historic in a bad way post presidency for the former presidency. that will do it for us now. it's time for the last word now pretty meaning lawrence. >> good evening rachel, and lynda saying is amazing. to have turned the f-150 into an electric f-150 was quite a story to unfold in your hour. and to have linda saying, the ford engineer who came up with how to do this and letting her have that moment of telling how it all happened was really wonderful to see. >> oh, thank you. thank you. i mean, i am a car person. i'm obsessed with this stuff. every detail they revealed today, the weight of the battery, the way the -- sits on the battery which is what used to be the drive train which isn't the drive train anymore.

seeing that light bar on the front, her talking about how it could be used as a generator in lots of different ways, all of it was fascinating to me. but nothing is more fascinating than meeting the woman who's been in charge of it for years and now is bringing it to fruition. so really, just whether you're car person or not, it's a really important pivot. >> car talk with rachel maddow tonight. rachel, the attorney general news out of new york is a very big turn for donald trump. for the attorney general to be saying what had been a civil investigation is now a criminal investigation. what we don't know is how long has it been a criminal investigation? the fact that statement came out tonight doesn't mean that it's a new development and so a criminal investigation by the state attorney general, new york state. a criminal investigation, we already know it's criminal by a manhattan district attorney and we know that one is criminal because there's a grand jury involved. and now they want to combine, they want to combine their forces on this investigation.

this is a very big night for trump criminal defense attorneys. >> yeah, and you know, it's an important thing to think too to recognize that this is an investigation for the new york attorney general of the president's business. and so to have potentially criminal penalties against the organization, against the business, has implications for him and his family and his standing in the world that are very very different than potentially civil penalties. and we'll wait to see. we'll have to verify this information and hopefully be able to get more information from the attorney general's office or smart observers on what this might mean but if this pans out, and this is a real thing, this is a big deal. >> and rachel, it's one of the reasons why i'm always semi amused and i kind of stay out of these political pundit discussions about donald trump 's power within the party four

years from now or two years from now. because i think every one of those discussions has to begin by telling me how many crimes will he be convicted of or accused of in how many states between now and then? and please have a political pundit explain to me what that does to his political standing. that's completely unknown political arithmetic. >> right, like what does it mean to have a presidential candidate who's also a fugitive from justice who can't leave certain jurisdictions to cross into others that have extradition treaties with the places that want him arrested and have law enforcement personnel standing by to do so? i mean, whether they try to shelter him someplace from extradition to face potential arrest, that would be a complicating fact for like, you know, planning a rally, let alone a bus store. >> a local prosecutor in florida has already said that this talk of donald trump being able to hide out in florida and

avoid extraditions in new york would never work, that the republican governor of florida could maybe delay it a little bit but it would never work. and so those stories will continue to be studied as donald trump moves around the country and he's moving to jersey already or soon. but these prosecutors in georgia, prosecutors in new york, new york state, new york city, criminal prosecutors closing in on donald trump is the real story of donald trump 's life now. and he knows that. he is so much more worried about that than what liz cheney said yesterday. he is much more worried about the prosecutors closing in on him than any of that stuff. >> yes, and he has to be because he has to work on it constantly and he has to pay for the legal defense. and i will tell you, i just got a note from the control room, lawrence, while we've been talking, we at msnbc on our show have just confirmed with the new york attorney generals

office what cnn reported a few minutes ago which is that in fact the new york attorney general says the trump organization investigation is no longer purely civil, it is now an active investigation of the trump organization in a criminal capacity. we've confirmed that and so that is for real. and you're right, that's the center of his universe right now and in short order, will probably be the sum total of his universe. >> and there's more than a few ways that a business can be involved in criminality but there are tax evasion is a crime. and so being prosecuted in the new york state by the state attorney general so if they see criminal tax evasion going on, and there's instances where your tax returns have issues with it. they say no, we don't think you can deduct that. they don't take that to be a criminal tax evasion but if that business crosses the line in the prosecutors in attorney generals office think of as criminal tax, state tax evasion in new york state, that is one

of the things that eat the attorney generals office would take over and would take the lead on. >> and lawrence, let me just say, not to get too far down the rabbit hole here but if there are tax issues, we know that they've been looking at public reporting, they've been looking at potential for tax fraud, potential bank fraud, potential insurance fraud. if tax fraud or tax evasion is one of the things they're looking at, i'm not an expert in these things but as i understand it, it's almost hard to commit state tax fraud without also committing federal tax fraud. >> right. >> it's hard to evade state taxes without also evading federal taxes and while the justice department of america does not seem to be super eager to be pursuing the dangling sort of tendrils of criminality that trump has left behind him as he left office, if there is going to be a criminal state tax prosecution, it's going to raise very hard questions very quickly for whether or not they should be looking potentially at federal tax charges as well. this is something that the

biden justice department does not want to do at all but it will be right in their lap if that happens. >> yeah, and for a typical person and in individual tax returns, our tax returns, federal, mirror our state tax returns. and they use basically the same numbers. businesses, it's different. new york state has its own tax regime. new york city has its own tax regime that you fall under and so new york is actually possibly the most complex taxing region, state, in the country in the way that interacts with new york city taxation and so there are plenty of ways for the trump organization in new york city and new york state to have crossed a line that actually doesn't exist in federal taxation, because business taxation is so different from the way our -- but for most of us, our individual returns are basically just mirrors of our state returns and if you're guilty of evasion on one, you're guilty of evasion on

another. but this trump organization, there are so many trick wires in new york state law and new york city law on taxation that there's a lot to look at there. >> i want you to get to james on your show. i bet that doesn't happen. it doesn't work that way. >> as we've been talking, rachel, the bookers of the last word have been working furiously and andrew weisman is going to join us and who knows who else because whatever show we were going to do, we'll see what's left of it but we'll get to our first commercial break. >> live tv, baby. that's how it goes. >> that's the way it works. thank you rachel. >> thank you. >> well today, joe biden made his second trip as president to michigan, one of the swing

states that give the seat to donald trump in 2016 and then to joe biden in 2020. trump won michigan by 10,000 votes. four years later, joe biden won michigan by 154,000 votes. in the president's opening line today, at a ford plant in the home state of the american auto industry, the president showed the rhetorical touch that won him a clear majority of michigan voters. >> my name is joe biden and i'm a car guy. >> a car guy indeed. michigan congresswoman debbie dingell was with the president today when he delivered that speech in dearborn, in her congressional district. she will join us in a moment. tomorrow, congresswoman dingell will be voting on a house bill to create a 9/11 style bipartisan commission to investigate the attack on the capital on january six by a trump mob after donald trump urged them to go to the capital and fight fight fight.

it's a bipartisan compromise bill created by democrats and republicans on the house homeland security committee. today, the house minority leader said he is now opposed to that bipartisan compromise bill. and the house minority steve scalise is now urging republican house members to vote against the january six investigative commission. here's what house speaker nancy pelosi told nbc's garrett heck about the legislation. >> i am very pleased that we have a bipartisan bill to come to the floor and it's disappointing but not surprising that the cowardice on the part of some of the republican side, not to want to find the truth. >> another member of the house democratic leadership, congressman hakeem jeffries said this. >> it's hard to take kevin mccarthy seriously at this point. i don't know what kevin

mccarthy is afraid of. >> well, kevin mccarthy could be afraid of being subpoenaed to testify under oath to that commission about what he said to donald trump on the phone and what donald trump said to him on the phone while kevin mccarthy it was in hiding in an undisclosed location during the attack on the capital. here's what kevin mccarthy said on the floor of the house representatives after his phone conversations with donald trump during the attack on the capitol. >> the president bears responsibility for wednesday's attack on congress by mob rioters. he should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding. these facts require immediate action for president trump. >> after that, kevin mccarthy immediately stopped saying unkind things about donald trump and is now in the midst of expelling republicans from the house leadership who say anything unkind about donald trump.

speaking of liz cheney, on sunday, she said that kevin mccarthy should testify under oath to the january 6th commission. >> he absolutely should, and i wouldn't be surprised if he were subpoenaed. i think that he very clearly and said publicly that he's got information about the president 's state of mind that day. >> in the early days, after january 6th, kevin mccarthy privately told republican members of the house that when he was on the telephone with donald trump begging donald trump to make a public statement telling his supporters to leave the capital, donald trump said, well kevin, i guess these people are more upset about the election than you are. one of the people who was more upset about the election than kevin mccarthy is jacob chansley, who entered kevin mccarthy's workplace on january 6th dress like this. in an interview with talking

points memo, jacob chansley's attorney told reporter matt shulan that jacob chansley was more than upset. in the first line of his quote, to match human, the lawyers said i'm going to use this colloquial term, perhaps disrespectfully about a lot of these defendants. well the lawyer then went on to deliver a richly profane statement about the mental health of his client and others who attacked the capital. some of the words that i can say on tv in the lawyers quote are, these are people with brain damage, they were subjected to four plus years of god damn propaganda, the likes of which the world has not seen since effing hitler. today, on the day the president visited michigan, the court in

michigan dismissed the final election fraud case in the state brought by a voter who believed that there should be an audit of the presidential vote. michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson said, the dismissal of the last of the lawsuits attempting to undermine democracy and furtherance of the big lie affirms that despite the intense scrutiny and an unprecedented misinformation campaign, the 2020 election was fair and secure and the results accurately reflect the will of the voters. today in dearborn michigan, the president elected by the voters of michigan toward the ford electric vehicle center wore president biden test drove its new electric pick up truck, the f-1:50 and he spoke about the future of auto workers and promised them that we will leave no one behind. >> we're in a great inflection point in american history. how we handle the next 4 to 10 years is going to determine where we're going to be 30, 40, 50 years from now. it's one of those moments in

american history. the future of the auto industry is electric. there's no turning back. >> we're going to put america to work, modernizing our roads, our highways, our ports, our airports, rails, transit systems. that includes putting ibew members on the union workers to work installing 50,000 charging stations all along our roads and highways. our homes and our apartments. the ibew is ready to do it and they can. now i know many of you watching at home are like the folks i grew up with in scranton delaware. they feel left out, left behind. in an economy and industry that's rapidly changing. i understand it. i really do.

but we will leave no one behind. >> congresswoman debbie dingell was with the president during that speech. congresswoman dingell's late husband john dingell was the longest serving member of the house in history when he passed away in 2019 after 59 years of serving in the house, decades of which overlapped with joe biden's service in the united states senate. >> representative debbie dingell, another dear friend. i know john's looking down and saying we're finally getting it done, huh? getting it done. >> leading off our discussion tonight is democratic congresswoman debbie dingell of michigan. she is the senior democratic

whip. congresswoman dingell, thank you very much for joining us tonight. i want to begin with the january 6th commission that you'll be voting on tomorrow. i imagine you're having no challenges as a whip with democrats on board, but what are you expecting tomorrow now that the republican leadership has turned against this bill? >> so lawrence, i've talked to a lot of republicans and several of them from michigan, others in the problem solvers. others in tuesday group. and i was with the president today so i wasn't on the house floor but as of last night, there were a number, a significant number of -- at least a couple dozen if not more, that are going to vote for this commission. and you know, when people say what it didn't happen or these were visitors to the capital, the american people watched what happened on january six. in fact, i was on the house floor. at first i didn't understand what was happening out there. i thought i was safe. the american people thought what was happening and their symbol of democracy, people like i did. so to say that this didn't happen, it's simply impossible to understand and we all need to worry about the fear and the hatred that has enabled people like that to come to our capital and understand how it happened. >> it's kevin mccarthy who

wants the block this investigation. is watching professional prosecutors around the country from georgia to new york close in on donald trump something we've never seen with a previous president being investigated this way criminally and tonight's news the new york state attorney general is teaming up with the manhattan district attorney to join in a criminal investigation of donald trump's businesses while kevin mccarthy is trying to protect donald trump from an investigation of what he did on january six. it seems like kevin mccarthy country wide, anyway, is fighting a losing battle against the concept of investigating donald trump. >> you know, i quite frankly don't understand how or why so many things that are happening right now. because we see it in front of our eyes. i mean, i want to put the last

four years behind us because i think this nation needs to heal. i think we have a lot of problems that we've got to come together on and reach across the aisle and people that have been pitted against each other for the last four years need to start working together. so that fact that the attorney general would undertake the criminal investigation against the former president, that is a very significant development and there must be very disturbing evidence that has something happening. by the way, i think people need

to be held accountable but i also think this nations got a lot of work to do and we have to find a way that -- i want to stop this fear, this hatred, this continuing division that's hurting the fundamental tenets of our democracy and what's going on right now contributes to it. it's not helpful. >> congresswoman debbie dingell, thank you very much for leading us off tonight. i really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thank you. and joining our discussion now

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minutes ago. we've informed the trump investigation and our investigation into the organization, is no longer purely civil in nature. we are now actively investigating the trump organization in a criminal capacity. along with the manhattan district attorney, we have no additional comments at this time. for additional comment, we are joined now by david pull off. he is an msnbc political analyst. david, this is news unlike any we have ever heard about any previous president before after serving in the presidency. eforhere, you have the new york

state attorney general teaming up with the manhattan district attorney clearly because the trump organization is located in manhattan. manhattan district attorney already running a criminal investigation of the trump business using a grand jury. they are now going to share information and so the new york attorney general will be able to obtain conceivably information that has been gathered by this pre-existing criminal grand jury. this is not a politics question, this is a how do you face this donald trump pretending to spend his day concerned with what republican members of the house might be saying about him. the truth of his life is, this is what occupies his day. worrying about the next thing his criminal defense attorneys are going to tell him. >> hi lawrence, there's no doubt about that. i've well maintained, even though donald trump sought the presidency and won the

presidency, not many people done that i think is going to regret entering the presidential race, much less winning. i think this is just the beginning of the end, potentially. you know, the rest of his days on this earth are going to be faced with dealing with investigations and perhaps against more serious than that. now the question politically, and i agree this about the law and not politics, will this at all shape the republican obsession with their leader? my guess is not. they stuck by him through thick and thin as he tried to shred the constitution and let a very immoral life. but he is in big trouble and i think that this is probably just the beginning. and so he can send out ridiculous statements about arizona ballots and he can applaud them for getting rid of cheney but at the end of the day, this has to occupy his time. and you know, my sense is that his business is not doing well. so he's got a struggling business, and he's got depleting exposure so couldn't

happen too a better guy as far as i'm concerned. >> david, as i was saying to rachel beginning of the hour, i think that is made me just sit out any pundit discussions about donald trump's political power and his political power going forward is i've always thought, you have to tell me about whether we're talking about a convicted criminal or a current criminal defendant and a pending criminal case when we're talking about this character donald trump, the politician. he now has three, count them, three criminal investigations against them right now. one in georgia, two in new york. now, what are the odds, where the odds that donald trump gets lucky on all three? if you know the answer to that, you know the answer to his political future. >> right, but i think the question is there's two questions here. honestly the question is does he run again? i've got real doubts about that. is he someone that can be helpful will swing voters in 22

or is he going to hurt the republican party? and of course the bigger question is, right now, he is a cult leader. he has described the republican party, they all about down to him. they follow him down whatever road he sets out. the big lie being the biggest problem we face right down so my guess is that this won't shake their allegiance to him at all. you know, we saw some local arizona elected officials beginning to speak out and there's been a handful of people in congress but when i don't understand about this, lawrence, is they all decided to say we think he did a good job on some issues but we're done with the big lie. the sun will come up to him, you know, they were basically held hostage by him and i think he's a paper tiger at the end of the day. but this won't shake the allegiance of most republican elected officials and maybe

most republican voters. but still, there's some more stones to be turned out here. >> so let's talk about one of the cult members, marco rubio who ran against donald trump for president calling him a con man, nonstop for a while there. and then when he lost to donald trump in the primaries he kind of immediately throwing the cold. valdes is now on the verge of announcing that she's going to run against marco rubio and florida. so you could have a senate campaign and florida next year or cult member marco rubio has to defend donald trump every day on the campaign trail for the latest twist in turn and a criminal prosecution of donald trump, while val demings, a former law enforcement official herself is out there campaigning against the kind of crime and corruption that donald trump represents and campaigning positively for senate as marco rubio has the job of defending donald trump. >> yeah, grab the popcorn lawrence. so, you're a democrat. or i would say even if you're not a democrat or republican who believes in democracy versus a top percy and realizes that democrats have to hold the senate and the house, this is extraordinarily important news.

so first of all, marco rubio seems afraid of everything. valdes seems like she's afraid of nothing. so i think there's a real contrast in terms of strength and character. but listen, there's a belief that is florida gone for the democratic party? listen, obama wins it narrowly and 12, hillary loses it narrowly in 16, eliminates and lose it in 18, trump opened up a few point when in 20, florida with the right candidate and there are excitement in the right organization is a winning state and you have to look at the senate picture in totality. the democratic party isn't just about maintaining control as important as it is. the 2024 cycle in the senate race is really brutal for the democrats. you know, you've got joe manchin seat, john chester's seat, we're not playing that much offense. maybe a bit of a campaign

against cruz in a presidential year. maybe rick scott. so you have to maximize in this cycle in north carolina, and pennsylvania, you've gotta protect were knocking kelly and those could be both tough races. and you've got to have some states like florida. and i remind people that this time in 2020 cycle, there were very few people in politics, and either party without that either georgia race would be super competitive. and obviously they ended up determining the president -- the senate control. so florida is really important. i think valdes things can play. and you have to have as many shots on goal as possible so you don't have to win them all, not just begin majority but i think the democratic party has the exit 22 with summer despair because you could give up some of that grounded 24. >> david, thank you very much tonight. i really appreciate it. >> no problem. >> and up next, we're gonna have more on the breaking news tonight that the new york state attorney generals office is now

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breaking news of this hour is a statement from the new york attorney general that msnbc received 45 minutes ago. new york attorney general letitia james issue this recent statement saying, we have informed the trump organization that our investigation into the organization is no longer purely civil and nature. we are now actively investigating the trump organization and a criminal capacity. along with the manhattan district attorney. we have no additional comment at this time. tim o'brien is a senior columnist for -- he is the author of the book, trump nation. tim bryan, thank you very much for joining us for this breaking news tonight. you wrote a book about donald

trump's business. has donald trump's to you because you said he was not a billionaire? donald trump lost that lawsuit against you because donald trump is not a billionaire. no one outside of the trump organization knows more about the trump businesses than you do. what is your reaction tonight to this announced publicly announced teamwork now in a criminal investigation of the trump businesses by the new york state attorney general and the manhattan district attorney? >> it's this dramatically ups the legal pressure on trump, on weisselberg and the entire trump organization, lawrence. up until now they've been their consequential of the twoas mo relative to laetitia james is investigation. she's a new york attorney general. because he had a criminal probe. and a criminal probe potentially carries a prison sentence. with it, a civil probe usually at its worst can result in a massive fine. the fact that she, the new york a. g. has decided to convert her case from a civil to criminal probe in a prosecution suggests that she has evidence

of criminal intent. that is the standard and a case that the defendant knew that he or she was doing something wrong and had criminal intent behind it. and that is a very difficult and challenging standard to be in a prosecution. and i would think that both sides dance and letitia james are dotting authorizing crossing all their teams in this investigation because it involves former president and either one of these things would be an epic prosecution and it appears there also joining forces. so this is just a huge development in the investigation of donald trump. >> andrew weizmann told us that the attorney general is under no obligation to make this public statement and under no obligation to communicate this to donald trump's criminal defense lawyers.

so your initial point about the heat of this puts on the people of this case, it seems to have been announced as a way of alerting all of the other potential witnesses or defendants in this case that this is more serious now than you thought it was yesterday. >> and remember that throughout the investigation, the trump family is essentially thumbed their nose and eric trump missed sitting for a deposition as i recall initially with her. she had to compel him to sit for a deposition. we know that at least one of the things she's looking at is how they value the state that trump owns and westminster county. and they haven't played ball and i think the fact that she's going public with this suggests that she wants it to be known as a tool for pressuring them

and bringing them to heal as it were in the course of what she's looking at. >> tim o'brien, who literally wrote the book about trump businesses thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thanks lawrence. >> and coming up, cars move sideways? now of course not. but a district attorney in north carolina thinks that they can and that is one of the reasons he says -- the officers were shot and killed andrew brown or justified. >> they will join us next. y will join us next. feel the clarity, and live claritin clear. ♪ ♪

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as usual, most of those bullets mix the person they were shooting at. as most police bullets do. one of those bullets had a nearby house. two of those bullets hit andrew brown junior behind the wheel of his car. one non lethal bullet entered his right upper arm near the shoulder, the second one hit his head and killed him. the district attorney investigating the case said it was a justified shooting and killing by the police. this is they have no idea which the officers at the scene fired the bullet that actually killed andrew brown, because that bullet was fragmented into three pieces and can be matched into ballistic tests. for the testing could determine which officer filed the fatal -- fired the fatal shot. andrew brown, who was unarmed,

was using a deadly weapon they insisted. the district attorney was andrew brown's car -- the district attorney said they approached his car in his driveway to serve a warrant on him at a press conference today, the -- in the to questions from the reporter. many asking questions whether the district attorney saw in the videos most reporters say the video showed andrew brown trying to avoid hitting the police officers with his car. >> even after going into a corner with no escape, but to move -- whenever his car directly at the officers, brown continued the felonious assault by using his weapon as a deadly -- >> when you employ a car, in a

manner that puts officers lives in danger, that is a flip. i don't care would direction you are going. forward, backwards, sideways -- >> that's the problem. a car cannot go sideways. the officers who claimed to be threatened by andrew brown were standing beside the car, on each side of the car when andrew brown was shot and killed in the back of the head his car wasn't even near any of those police officers it was rolling away from those police officers when he was shot in the back of the head. police claiming the car was used as a deadly weapon when they are standing behind the car, the car that cannot move sideways, and it's been used as a police defensive deadly force first long as cars have existed. that was the defense he used in the boston case that i wrote a book about in the 19 eighties called deadly force.

in that case, the two questions police officers could never answer in court was, if you are beside the car, why didn't you just step backwards away from it? that is a question that district attorney and your warm bowl does not care about. he apparently believes that cars can move sideways. joining us now, kirk burkhalter criminal law professor where he is the director of the 21st century police -- >> and both are former nypd detectives. , i'm sorry we've had to squeeze our discussion into one discussion because of breaking news tonight. let me begin with you mark. >> i think you pointed to the important thing. the district attorney was acting as if he was a defense attorney. the comments that he made, he's trying to shave and develop a

narrative that will survive the investigation, of the alleged investigation that he's conducting, and quite possibly some investigations moving forward. his goal is to defend the police officers, and to develop a narrative that tries to control not you're lying eyes -- >> for sure. lawrence, the statement, i don't care would car the -- which where the car was moving, i can't imagine a lawyer, let alone a prosecutor making that statement. it matters what direction the car was moving, because that has direct bearing on to whether the officers were threatened. they should arrest defenders and bring them in front of the court, not to exact justice based on the criminal record. the person's criminal record, what they were arrested for,

and no way justifies i don't care which direction the cars moving in. i find the statement problematic. >> mark, this district attorney, he sounded like a defense attorney. he sounded like he was describing a case out of the 19 eighties. and the principles of is using, he went so far to say they have a right to shoot him in order to execute these warrants. >> yes, and he used a word i found quite troubling and disturbing about extinguishing the threat. >> yes. >> i was kind of shocked when he even indicated that. troubling in itself. and perhaps quite telling about what is perspective is on these things. he failed to even consider or discuss as an option to present, or possible area to be explored further about -- jeopardy. there's so many things you

failed to present. he was trying to set a narrating forward. >> the fbi is still investigating this case, so there could be more on it for the federal level. thank you for joining us tonight. that's tonight's last word. the 11th hour with brian williams starts now. ms starts now. and good evening once again, they 119 of the biden administration and the breaking news we are covering tonight is about the former president. the new york state attorney general has now joined the manhattan prosecutors criminal investigation into donald trump 's businesses. tonight the, new york a.g. issued a statement that reads, quote, we have informed the trump organization their investigation into the organization is no longer purely civil in nature. we are now actively investigating the trump organization in a criminal capacity, along with the manhattan da. much more on this development and what it might mean