tv Morning Joe MSNBC July 22, 2021 3:00am-6:00am PDT
of them are either not fully vaccinated or not vaccinated at all. so these vaccines are saving lives. they are reducing mortality. >> another republican leader touting the importance and safety of the covid vaccines. trying to undo the severe damage that's been done by the malicious disinformation that has contributed to now a fourth wave of the pandemic. it's real and it is deadly for those who are unvaccinated. also ahead, former fbi director james comey famously said ability his former conversations with former president trump lordy i hope there are tapes. this morning, the authors of a new book have tapes.
that and more to cover on this thursday, july 22nd. but first, willie we'll start on yesterday's move by nancy pelosi that is being called unprecedented. >> house speaker nancy pelosi rejected two of minority leader kevin mccarthy's picks tasked with investigating january 6th. garrett haake has details. >> reporter: a committee in chaos. >> it's an egregious abuse of power. pelosi has broken this institution. >> reporter: republican leader kevin mccarthy withdrawing all of his selections for the january 6th special committee after speaker pelosi announced she would reject two choices for the panel. republicans now calling the committee a sham while democrats vow to push ahead. >> we have a bipartisan quorum
we can proceed. >> reporter: the speaker saying not seeing them was necessary to protect the integrity of the p investigation. >> the fact that she rejected two members that indicated they are not supportive of the committee, is serious and how serious it is to have patriots. >> reporter: now just one republican remains on the committee, liz cheney. defending the investigation to come. >> this must be an investigation focused on facts. the idea that any of this has become politicized is really unworthy of the office that we all hold and unworthy of our republic. >> joining us now, cofounder of punch bowl news jake sherman, white house reporter for the associated press jonathan lemire, doing work on way too early this week. and member of the new york times
editorial board mara gaye. let me start with you, jake. perhaps predictable it was going to go this way when jim jordan was placed on the committee. but republicans are acting like two months ago they did not have the chance to create the commission they're lamenting was not created here. a 9/11 style commission. only six republicans voted to create the commission. now here we are with the select committee, which is falling apart before our eyes. what happens next? >> we have an all democratic panel. that's what happens next. >> plus liz cheney. >> that's right. appointed by nancy pelosi who said yesterday she believes mccarthy should never be speaker and agreed with pelosi's decision to remove jim banks and jim jordan from the committee.
i don't know what the politics of this are. i think, to be honest with you, willie, if you had to read the lines from the pure political angle, they both kind of got what they wanted. i think mccarthy didn't want to participate in this and wouldn't have created it on his own volition, quite obviously, and he's not participating in it now. it's a shame, because this, again, should be a partisan issue, because as somebody who was there that day, it was a tragic incident, that's number one. number two, what you said, willie is the key point republicans are complaining about things they had in their power to put in place. they voted against a bipartisan committee. a committee which they would have had complete veto power over every subpoena, everything that the committee did. so they threw that opportunity away several months ago. and now here we are, they said they're going to do their own investigation, mccarthy, banks,
jordan, those guys on the committee -- which they're all men and a lot of people noted in the capitol -- they said tha their top priority is why wasn't the capitol better prepared. that was a fair question to be asking in the scheme of things, i would say that's not a lot of people's top priorities, generally speaking. mccarthy pointed to the senate investigation, which has been ongoing. clearly he's not very interested and he said this, he doesn't want a committee with pelosi. >> and, of course, mitch mcconnell two months ago whipped votes against the creation of a bipartisan 9/11 style commission to look into this. yesterday when you have minority leader mccarthy standing there talking about the sanctity of the people's house, rolling your eyes is a minimum. they had the chance to do what they wanted and they passed on it. >> now the republicans are going
to emerge from this with their own report which they will put up as a co-equal as to what the democrat plus liz cheney committee is going to do. it's more of the same obscuring and the fog machine as to what happened on january 6th that continues the patterns from republicans downplaying the severity of that day. but we get new video every day of how much worse it could have been if not for some luck and heroism from capitol police officers. they're trying to turn the page on this as quickly as they can, bury it, it's just washington politics again. despite pressure from the white house for it to happen, democrats going into it with a good faith effort, getting to the bottom of it, republicans not going to play ball and it's going to lead to more and more
americans saying look, this is why washington is so broke erie, pa -- why washington is so broken. >> here's more from liz cheney about kevin mccarthy's threat to pull his picks from the committee. >> the rhetoric we have heard from the minority leader is disingenuous. the attack on this building on january 6th was the worst attack on this capitol since 1814. it was an attack on our constitution. the american people deserve to know what happened. the people who did this must be held accountable. there must be an investigation that is nonpartisan, that is sober, that is serious, that gets to the facts wherever they may lead. and at every opportunity, the minority leader has attempted to prevent the american people from understanding what happened. to block this investigation. >> mccarthy, of course, wants to become speaker next year.
do you think he deserves to be speaker in the aftermath of his actions here? >> i think that any person who would be third in line to the presidency must demonstrate a commitment to the constitution and a commitment to the rule of law. and minority leader mccarthy has not done that. >> so mara gaye, i see two strains here in this country. two strains of division and a lack of respect for basic truth that could ultimately lead to the rubber meeting the road for republicans. i know, for the entire trump presidency, we kept hearing this is it, this is it, this is it. but i think these two strains could be it. i'm wondering if this editorial would make it through "the new york times" editorial board but you have a basic impossibility on capitol hill with the two members ruled out of the committee by nancy pelosi because of a basic commitment to truth.
about what happened on january 6th. that it was an insurrection, that it was violent. that it was an attack on our democratic process. there's that basic truth that is being debated, which is an impossibility, you can't debate the truth. and then you have the truth about covid. h and this delta variant that is isolating the lies and the conspiracy theories, again under the umbrella of trump, january 6th and covid. i think this may be where the rubber meets the road for republicans who appear to be running for cover on covid. do you agree? >> mika, it's -- what you lay out is, of course, exactly what's happening in the country. the unfortunate part is that so many times we've talked about it, you and i. we think that the dam is going to break. and it just hasn't. and i think that's why liz
cheney is playing such a crucial role, because her presence on this committee, which should be far more bipartisan and robust in that way than it is, is proof positive that this is a serious task to really get to the bottom of what happened on january 6th. and that this is not about partisanship but, of course, is about protecting democracy. i think unfortunately what we're seeing is just another step, another touch stone of the republican party's slow walk away from democracy and toward just an interest in sheer power. the frustrating thing is that because of the right-wing media juggernaut that is helping pump this disinformation into the eyes and minds and ears of so many americans, they can kind of run -- the party can run on these fumes for much longer than
it otherwise would. so the amount of disinformation i think that americans are receiving is vast. and we're not talking about different points of view. we are talking about untruths, lies, and in this case they're very dangerous that vaccines could be dangerous, that covid isn't that big of a deal. or that, you know, fellow americans are against you somehow. all of these things are lies and they're very dangerous. so that's kind of what democracy is up against. the democratic party cannot do this alone. we need a multi-party democracy, we need competition in elections and in this country. and so, as long as the republican party -- as long as its members truly are getting away electorally with behaving this way, our democracy is in real trouble. the fact that they don't feel a need to take part in this very
basic exercise of defending the capitol and those who were there that day, should really set off alarm bells for the rest of the country and liz cheney should not be standing alone here. this is kind of an all hands -- this is what we call a five alarm fire in new york for democracy. this is a real problem. >> jake, at some point everyone is going to have to take republicans at their word when they say we don't want to look back at january 6th, whether it's ejecting liz cheney from her position of leadership, voting down a 9/11-style commission or now making a farce of the select committee. what else do you see ahead of us in terms of how these two parties attempt to even work together. we have infrastructure on the table, platform on the table, we have all these massive packages in front of us. how does the body that you cover every day proceed? how do they get anything done when there's this complete lack
of good faith and goodwill? >> in the senate, a lot is getting done, seemingly. but there's this bipartisan infrastructure package which is close to completion. and you know, willie, i'm probably the most cynical and pessimistic person on planet earth and i do think there's going to be a deal here on the bipartisan infrastructure package. and i think that it will happen quite soon. now will it pass the senate? i think it will. will it pass the house? i don't know if it will. but let me answer your question directly. there's not one thing that will get done in the house of representatives on a broadly bipartisan basis. i'm not talking about one republican, two republicans, but nothing in the house is going to get done on a bipartisan basis. because republicans feel -- not because, but republicans do feel like they are on the edge of winning the majority. they are going to win the majority. they think. based on history, based on trends, all of those things, and they don't feel the incentive.
listen, willie, we just had kevin mccarthy at donald trump's summer home in new jersey last week. and mccarthy gets very -- i want to make this point because it's important to say. mccarthy gets frustrated about getting asked about trump we see it every week. it's not hard to see that he's frustrated when asked at these press conferences about trump, but how could he not? he's the president's closest political ally. he's going to become speaker with the help, if he becomes speaker, of donald trump. it's quite obvious why he gets asked. and republicans unlike senate republicans, remember when mitch mcconnell was asked about donald trump he doesn't even mention donald trump's name anymore. but republicans are still incredibly closely tied to donald trump. >> all right. jake sherman of punch bowl news,
thank you for being on this morning. now we turn to the latest with coronavirus where cases here in the u.s. have nearly tripled in the last two weeks in a growing number of hospitals. the nation is seeing an influx of covid patients. most of them unvaccinated and young. elson barber returned to one hospital in south carolina. >> give you the best chance -- >> reporter: a year ago the covid icu at lexington medical center was pushed to the brink. now it's feeling like deja vu. this man is the latest patient admitted and the doctor is trying to figure out if he should be on a ventilator. >> there's a high likelihood that he'll require more advanced care. >> reporter: around the corner is another covid patient, just 26 years old.
receiving a plasma transfer. today there are 9 covid patients and the majority are on ventilators. >> the only diagnosis of some. others have no conditions at all and the only link is that they're not vaccinated. >> reporter: almonzo was a patient hospitalized for nearly two months. he was eligible to get vaccinated early in the year but didn't. now he'll tell anyone who will listen. >> go ahead and get the vaccination because the covid is for real. >> reporter: statewide, covid hospitalizations have increased by 103% in less than a month. >> what i would ask from our community is again continue to understand the vaccine, the benefit outweigh the risk 100 to 1. >> yesterday we talked about the cult of trump, the irrational
avoidance of objective, verifiable facts related to covid, the vaccine or the election. and it has all the markings of a cult. the fact that 99% of people who go to hospitals now with covid are those who did not get the vaccine and the fact that most supporters of donald trump still refuse to get the vaccine shows just how powerful that cult has become. look at the people who voted for donald trump who are now dying in hospital beds across middle america and understand this has become a death cult. please understand this. it's not like one. sadly, even doctors who sign death certificates of family members who refuse to get the vaccine and try to save their surviving family members are now subject to threats. one example is an alabama doctor. all but one of the doctor's covid patients at birmingham's
grandview medical center did not receive the coronavirus vaccine. the vaccinated patient is expected to fully recover. but some of the unvaccinated ones are dying. and she pleaded on a post on facebook saying this, i'm admitting young, healthy people to the hospital with very serious covid infections. one of the last things they do before they're intubated is beg me for the vaccine. i hold their hand and tell them that i'm sorry it's too late. a few days later when i call time of death, i hug their family members and tell them the best way to honor their family member is get vaccinated and encourage everyone to do the same. they cry and tell me they didn't know. they thought it was a hoax. they thought it was political. they thought because they had a certain blood type or a certain
skin color that they wouldn't get as sick. they thought it was just the flu. but they were wrong. and they wish they could go back, but they can't. so they thank me and they go get the vaccine. and i go back to my office, i write their death note and say a small prayer that this loss will save more lives. willie? >> that disinformation is deadly. and that's a very powerful piece al.com. everybody ought to read it. i hope it breaks through and convinces people in the state of alabama where the doctor works, and perhaps some of the other states with low vaccination rates. it's also a commentary on where we are as a culture that the doctor is getting threats now because she wrote that piece and as backed off any public facing appearances because of the
threats she's getting describing the work she's doing trying to save people's lives. joining us now, dr. nahid bhadelia, an nbc news contributor. doctor, great to see you, we can get into the particulars of what's happening across the country but i'm interested in your reaction to that piece we heard from the doctor in birmingham. a scene playing out in hospitals now across the country. >> yeah. i'm -- as a physician, it is heartbreaking to see that. and i think it's heartbreaking because all of us in health care have been at bedsides where you wished you could do more. and i can feel that doctor's helplessness in that situation. honestly, it just re -- under scores for me why we're all out here doing this, talking about the vaccine, trying to get the public health message out there. because the deaths happening right now, the majority of them
as we talked about it again and again, are among unvaccinated, if each of us can reach one person who might get the vaccine maybe it's one potentially less person who ends up in the hospital. i speak with a heavy heart. it's hard to see that. >> do you think things may change. i wrote down a list of republicans who have spoken out saying you have to get the vaccine in the last two days, governor ron desantis, majority leader mitch mcconnell, senator tub by tubberville has spoken out again, steve scalise, sean hannity, some other hosts on fox news saying go get the vaccine, it saves lives. do you think we'll see the trajectory change here? as you point out, it's heading in a bad direction in the states where people are not vaccinated. >> that's right. i hope it does, willie. i think that any person -- you
know, any of the government officials that you talked about, particularly in areas that are undervaccinated, for the reasons that we talked about, you know you heard that in the narrative that the doctor wrote, the fact that people thought it was political, after a year and a half and hundreds of thousands of people dead, that potentially people thought this was a hoax. and if it makes a difference, i am all for that. the only thing that i'll make a suggestion is for government officials to be consistent. to keep saying it. i think to say it once, to say your duty is done there, particularly when your states are so heavily affected, it's not enough. we're out here, that doctor is out here putting her name on that and taking death threats. i think if you keep saying it, it will get to some people and change the trajectory of their disease. >> we've seen some counties, like los angeles, reinstitute
mask mandates for people indoors. we know the white house had discussions about whether they should change their messaging about masks indoors, even for people vaccinated. so far the cdc hasn't changed their guidance yet. are we at the point, should americans who are vaccinated, should they be wearing masks inside around other people? >> i think you're going to get a range of opinions on this. i think this is an evolving situation. we're learning about it. my thought is in a heavily vaccinated state, you can't just base it on cases. you should look at the surge and trajectory as they're going up but you also need to look at hospitalizations and death. there should be a disconnect, you should see fewer people hospitalized in those settings. even in areas, heavily vaccinated states, if you see vaccinations go up and cases go
up, it might be time to add an extra layer of mitigation until those come down and more people unvaccinated can be covered. >> dr. bhadelia, first of all, when we talk about being in a fourth wave, what does that mean exactly? are we going back to square one? where it was at its worst? >> i actually don't -- well, again, the tough part here is the delta variant is a much different beast. i think you're finding it's a lot more transmissible. the things working in our favor we have a percentage of our populations in every state vaccinated. some states are low. in those states i think things will get worse than they are right now. with the number of people that have been vaccinated, one hopes it won't be as bad. but you can't predict that. there's a study about the delta variant causing thousand times higher amounts of virus than
when first detected. one hopes in the states that are highly vaccinated that you could see some increases, but we are in a better spot than we were before. it really -- it's hard to sort of see what's happening in -- you know, when you're looking at israel, uk, even there, though you can see the cases have gone up, but hospitalizations and deaths have not gone up as much as they were before. >> i can't think of a country, you know, that comes close to having this sort of rebellion within it to the truth on covid. and it seems to me, as a -- you know, respected member of the public health community one of the biggest issues would be messaging. and how we treat these patients, especially this large number of unvaccinated who are now having the delta variant rip through their lives and take their
lives. i wonder if there's a way to look at it where these doctors are not just treating covid patients but many of them are covid patients who are also victims of a cult, who are people who have suffered at the hands of mass disinformation and have fallen because of it. and is there a way to message differently, as if you are messaging to cult members? i know it might sound crazy but that's where we are. in crazy times where we have people who are dying because they did not know, and it's not just one or two people, it's large swaths of people who choose to remain unvaccinated because of the disinformation we're seeing it anecdotally, and we're seeing it in the data. does the messaging need to change? do we need to start studying how to speak to people who are suffering from two things, covid and cult? >> i think, mika, one of the
biggest surprises for most physicians and public health folks is how prevalent this misinformation were in changing this pandemic. that's one of the things my center is looking at, aside from best strategies for treating patients, how disinformation and public health responses during outbreaks sort of affect each other. so yes, a lot of work needs to be done on that, but what we know from pyre experiences is that it does work to have trusted messengers speak to those individuals. so it's important that republicans continue to speak about this. continue to take -- i would extend that invitation to as many people on right-leaning media as well to take that on, because it is saving lives when they support vaccinations, they are literally playing a role in saving lives. there's a kaiser survey that talks about the fact that when
people talk about who they would listen to, it's their pediatricians, physicians, so having that interface with someone who is potentially treating you for other things could make an impact for a smaller number of people because that amount of time interface allows us to disspell some of that disinformation and misinformation out there. >> let me ask you about kids, a lot of parents watching the show felt like we turned a corner, summer looked good, fall was going to be fine, back to school full time, masks off, back to normal. then we get this guidance recommending masking for kids inside school. all kids. we know 12 and up can get the vaccine, still a lot of work to do in terms of getting 12 and up vaccinated. but 12 and under, no vaccine we hear until perhaps the middle of winter. i know every state, every community is different. but how should parents be thinking about the fall and
school? >> i think, willie, if we want to go back to an environment where people are going indoors, especially where cases are going up, the pathway to get to the point there's safe in-person schooling is to vaccinate as many adults as possible. that way you're reducing the amount of virus in the community that you're in, and then you add extra mitigation layers. i think that's what the cdc guidance was also meant to do, stress vaccination and say in areas you're seeing surges, greater hospitalizations, kids are still part of our communities throughout as they reflected the community transmission. so extra layers could help those schools be safer, particularly when there is greater disease transmission in those communities. so i do agree with the american academy of pediatrics, particularly in those settings.
>> doctor nahid bedelia, thank you for being on this morning. and still ahead on "morning joe," what was president trump's goal on january 6th? what did he hope would happen. those are questions posed by washington post reporter carol loenig. plus transportation secretary pete buttigieg joins us on the heels of yesterday's failed infrastructure vote. what's next? you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. g "morning " we'll be right back. there's an america we build
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against. it needed 60 votes to pass. the vote was intended to pressure the group of lawmakers to quickly finish negotiations. senators working on the legislation say they will keep at it. they write in part, we will continue working hard to ensure we get this critical legislation right and are optimistic that we will finalize and be prepared to advance this historic bipartisan proposal to strengthen america's infrastructure and create good paying jobs in the coming days. meanwhile, new polling shows the overwhelming voters in swing districts support an infrastructure bill and a separate bill, saying they only support the second bill if it's backed by both parties. joining us now ryan clancy and amy levingston. ryan i'll begin with you here in the studio. walk us through the polling.
it looks like 72% of americans support a bipartisan effort at this legislation. but they don't want to spend too much money it appears. >> 72% support the bipartisan infrastructure bill. 76% want it alone, not linked to anything else. what's original about this poll, there's a lot of polling out there about the infrastructure polling. a lot of it is national, party funded to give them the answers they want. a lot of it looks at the specific provision, this is the poll that gets into the 33 district, 20 are swing districts, to really look at a granular level what do people want? what are the tradeoffs they're willing to accept. it's interesting. >> despite the vote yesterday jake sherman was on a minute ago saying he too was optimistic that this bipartisan package was going to get done. go down in your polling, 57% of the people say we want the bipartisan bill, that looks
good. we like parties working together, bridges, roads, all that, but this $4.7 trillion package that the white house and democrats are talking about goes too far. >> i want to give you findings that really get to the public's collective unease. we asked a question where we said if there was that level of spending, what would concern you? here's what we got, 74% would be concerned with runaway inflation. 78% that it would be higher taxes on them personally down the line. 69% lower growth. 69% a negative impact on my family's finances. so it's not that they're against the specific provisions, but collectively you get to these numbers they get nervous. >> amy, jonathan lemire, we talked about there is hope for the bipartisan deal and the white house is saying it's encouraged by mitt romney yesterday saying 10, 11 republicans could be on board next week. since there is hope it gets done
there is a subplot to this that democrats need to make a bipartisan effort to reassure senators, we tried. so even if it falls apart that might make them more comfortable going for the reconciliation bill which would only grow if infrastructure had to be put into that. what's your polling show, the threshold americans want to see in terms of a cost, is there a sense of which party would take more of the blame if this fell apart? >> it's an excellent question. this poll is unique because it asks some edgier, interesting questions around that. it shows a lot of positive news, a high degree of consensus, both as you say and the president saw for the initiative the president is selling hard on reconciliation, there's a lot more work to be done, first and foremost because voters want bipartisan support. i think that there is a wariness
of if one party was to ram it through with razor thin support, it's not going to bode well for them. what voters want is -- there's bipartisan support for bipartisan support, if you will. and to ryan's point a minute ago, there's a lot of concern about the impact on personal finance, high inflation, impact on the economy if it is to be rammed through. >> mara, i wonder what your thoughts are focussing on key swing districts, what do you make of these? >> it means that the democrats are not going to move until they are satisfied that they have found some consensus and that they can really show the american people and reassure democrats in swing districts that they are going to be protected.
there are various ways to do that, so i think behind the scenes there's some confidence on this. there are a lot of local issues remember that these swing district members want to deliver on to their members. and really all politics is local. so what we're talking about here is probably pork. but that's how you get deals done in washington. and i -- i do think there's some confidence that this can be accomplished. >> ryan, the case against this big package that republicans have made is a lot of this isn't infrastructure spending. that democrats are taking liberties with the definition of infrastructure. democrats say the definition of infrastructure has changed since it was bridges, roads and tunnels. what do the american people think? do they believe it should be this hard infrastructure that we've come to know over generations or are they buying into the idea there's more to it right now? >> it's clear democratic and republican leaning districts, people think of the traditional
definition, roads, bridges, water, broadband, the other stuff it's social spending. >> who's winning the argument, republicans saying this is not infrastructure, a lot of what democrats are talking about? >> the support is really muted at best once you add in what's considered social spending. when do we see 7 in 10 voters across, 78% democrats, 70 independents, and 55% of republican leaning voters supporting what's seen as pure infrastructure and that does fall when you add in social spending with the price tag. >> interesting stuff, amy levington, ryan clancy, thanks for bringing the new numbers. coming up with the white house is bringing up pressure on social media platforms to
contain anti-vaccine messaging. plus assistant speaker katherine clark joins us to weigh in on nancy pelosi's decision to block two of kevin mccarthy's picks for the january 6th committee. "morning joe" is coming right back. joe" is coming right back so then i said to him, you oughta customize your car insurance with liberty mutual, so you only pay for what you need.
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another 50 piece. the mvp streaming live on instagram yesterday as he ordered a meal to watch the 50 points scored tuesday night in the title clinching victory over the suns. it's hard to conceive of a more likable star. and as always the best customers service goes to chick-fil-a. >> she had no idea, walked up to that car, the mvp would be sitting inside live streaming it. she didn't blink, took the order, got it done. and giannis, a good guy, likable figure, one who decided against joining some super team somewhere else, stayed put, stayed in milwaukee, signed his extension. and i will say, some of his old tweets when he gets to the u.s.,
is discovering america. >> we agreed you get the number one with lemonade. >> that's right. get the standard sandwich. >> an 8 or 12 piece for dessert on the nuggets. >> reasonable. let's go to olympics where dan craven is the latest to test positive for covid-19. he will be replaced in saturday's race. he said he had been trying to receive a covid-19 vaccine through spain's national health care system but, quote, the bureaucratic system to get registered has just been crazy. four more residents of the olympic village, including two athletes have tested positive for coronavirus. a total of 91 people have tested positive since the beginning of july, not including athletes who
tested positive before their scheduled travel to tokyo where infections are up 150% from last week. with more than 1,800 new cases reported in the city yesterday. but, jonathan lemire, the opening ceremony will go on as scheduled tomorrow night in tokyo. >> on nbc family of networks. >> hosted by our friend savannah guthrie. >> the olympics are always excited. this year will be surreal, there won't be any stands in the fan. first lady jill biden will be in the building. excited but worrisome seems every day another athlete has to drop out. the games themselves will be great. >> the games will go on, mika. >> i'm worried. it's beginning to not feel right. still ahead, new audio recordings reveal how former president trump felt about mike pence following the election.
it's part of the new book "i alone can fix it". we'll hear more coming up on "morning joe." e coming up on "morning joe." vo: the climate crisis is here. berardelli: these temperatures are almost unbelievable even for a meteorologist. vo: and the solution is here too: clean energy. like wind turbines and solar panels. now, congress has to invest in it and the millions of workers ready to install it across the country. because in america, we don't hide from problems like climate change. we take them on. we innovate. we lead.
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back now to the pandemic. which is back. coronavirus cases are on the rise and public health officials say two factors are to blame. the delta variant and vaccine misinformation. nbc news consumer and investigative correspondent vicky nguyen reports on what advocates are doing to evade social media bans. >> reporter: anti-vaccine groups are trying to stop facebook from removing their words by using code words. like in these posts dancing folks are vaccinated people. while facebook said it's working hard to fight misinformation,
removing 18 million falsehoods so far, this new tactic could make that tougher which could impact each other like these sisters who get their information from social media and other sources and don't agree on the vaccine. >> i am a bit skeptical. i don't trust the government too much. >> when you hear your sister say these things, how do you feel? >> it makes me sad. what i've seen is something i should get to help prevent other people from getting sick. >> reporter: some families joined online support groups to help with misinformation, including this group. psychologist sandra vanderlin studies the effects on social media. >> how does social media influence people's relationship with facts? >> when people receive most of their information about covid-19 and vaccination from social media, they're more likely to be misinformed and less likely to get vaccinated. >> reporter: a survey shows 53%
of americans get their news from social media. as for the sisters, they no longer talk about the vaccine. >> we make our own choices. >> mara gae, your thoughts as someone who suffered from coronavirus and also works for an organization that is published, that is adhering to standards, what is happening with social media? why, at this point, would facebook be allowed to sort of continue with all this disinformation really pouring through it and absolutely no accountability? zero. >> mika, that's right. this is another really critical moment to call facebook, and companies like it, what it is. which is a content producer and a publisher of information.
whether accurate or not. and so, i believe that they should be held to the same standard that we are held to. because this is extremely dangerous. and, you know, the companies are getting a little better about doing what they say they can, but it's not enough. it's not acceptable. and i really think it's time for congressional action on that. and for pressure from all areas to get them to crack down and remove disinformation when they see it from their platforms. so that's incredibly important. i think, the other thing that is just happening here is, people are looking at social media platforms, they're sharing it among their own, many times their other communities. and i think that just reinforces the message from doctors and public health officials which is we really need trusted members
of the community in the united states to talk about the safety and efficacy and importance of vaccination. and i think it really is a case where if you know somebody who has gotten very sick or has died from covid, you may be more likely to, if not get a vaccine, at least listen to the argument for the vaccine. we have to get public health messages that are, you know, vital in the room. and in people's minds. even if they choose not to get a vaccine, we need to make sure we can get before them and get them to a place where they're at least open to hearing the argument for it. i fear that for many americans it may be too late, but we should just keep trying. it is heartbreaking to me that this is where we are still. >> yeah. no. it -- on many levels. and we have public health officials that we've put on the show from mississippi even in
the past few days, saying that their voice is being drowned out by facebook. their facts, their science, their public health information, is being drowned out by facebook. shut it down. coming up, house minority leader, kevin mccarthy threatens to pull his january 6th committee speaks after speaker pelosi rejects two of them. will the bipartisan credibility of the committee now rest solely on congresswoman liz cheney. "morning joe" is back in 90 seconds. y. "morning joe" is back in 90 seconds. ng life to the fullest. that's why inside every miracle-ear store, you'll find better cheers with your favorite fans. you'll find a better life is in store at miracle-ear, when you experience the exclusive miracle-ear advantage. our team is devoted to your care, with free service adjustments and cleaning of your miracle-ear hearing aids for life. we're so confident we can improve your life, we're offering a 30-day risk-free trial. call 1-800-miracle today and experience
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welcome back to "morning joe." it is thursday, july 22nd, the ap's jonathan lemire is still with us. and msnbc contributor mike barnicle joins the discussion as well. joe is off today. over the past two weeks covid-19 cases nearly tripled in the united states amid an onslaught of vaccine misinformation. it is putting some hospitals at a tipping point. meanwhile, concerns are mounting over the covid delta variant and its affect on children and the unvaccinated. this comes after an alarming report of a 5-year-old boy from georgia who died from covid-19 without any underlying conditions.
also, a small controversial new study is calling into question one of the vaccine's effectiveness against the delta variant. gabe gutierrez has the latest. >> reporter: as the u.s. sees a thousand new covid infections every hour, a new study suggests that the one shot johnson & johnson vaccine may be less effective against the delta variant. and that the 13 million people who've received it may need a booster. the cdc does not recommend that and the study is facing backlash because it's not been peer reviewed and has a small sample size of 27 people. johnson & johnson said its studies show it does offer protection. >> this was a small study done in a lab boir, not a real world environment. and other studies have shown the johnson & johnson vaccine has been effective. >> reporter: growing concern over the strain. new york city announced it'll require all 42,000 employees of
city-run hospitals to be vaccinated or get weekly covid tests. >> i believe it will be beneficial in the end especially as health care workers we need to be the ones needed to be protected. >> reporter: 42% of them have not gotten a shot. and a jacksonville hospital we visited this week, 40% haven't. across the country about 1 in 4 health care workers are unvaccinated. >> this is about keeping people safe. >> reporter: a family is mourning the loss of 5-year-old wyatt gibson who they say died from covid complications. his father, a sheriff's deputy. wyatt's relatives too heart broken to speak on television wanted us to share this video. they say he had no underlying health conditions. still, serious covid complications and deaths among
children are extremely rare. of the more than 600,000 deaths in in the u.s., only 493 were under 18. >> gabe gutierrez reporting for us there. joining us dean of the brown university school of health, dr. ashish jha. let me start with the j&j vaccines, does it offer protection against the delta variant, which is the worst right now for most of the country. what's your view on that shot and people who got it? it was appealing at the outset because it was a one shot deal with you walked away from it. >> i think the data on j&j is generally quite good. that's one small study in a sea of other studies that show a high level of protection. and all the data so far suggests terrific protection against severe illness and death. so if i got one, i wouldn't do anything right now. we'll have higher quality data
in the next few weeks. at that point we can look and see if people need a second shot. i suspect they won't but we'll have better data in the next few weeks. >> let's talk about the story out of georgia, the five-year-old boy, losing his life to covid. we have to put it into context, there have been 613,000, a little north of that deaths in the states, and under 18 is less than 500. what are the risks right now as parents are watching to children. >> obviously incredibly heartbreaking. as the dad of a 9-year-old i saw that and it was a gut punch. good news is, kids are less likely to get sick and die. but kids are always less likely to get sick and die from every condition. kids are supposed to live long, healthy lives. i feel this is part of the
misinformation of covid underplaying this in children. the question is, what's the risk of kids in covid versus other conditions like the flu, like other things. and the answer is that covid can be tough on kids and kids do get really sick. obviously we should continue to do everything we can to protect children. i don't have any idea that delta variant is particularly bad for kids but it is a serious thing for children and blowing it off and downplaying it i don't think is a useful tactic. >> you've been a level-headed barometer for us dr. jha over the last year and a half. where do you think we are as a country looking at the number of unvaccinated people getting sick, the delta variant infiltrating those states where not enough people have been vaccinated. what's the snapshot of where the country is? >> i have to tell you, i'm worried about where we are, and i haven't felt like this the last six months.
i'm concerned. let me tell you why, delta variant is everywhere in the country. it's incredibly contagious, way more contagious than we all thought in the beginning when we first identified the delta variant. so it's going to be a huge problem for us. and then, of course, as we've talked about and you were discussing lots of pockets of poorly vaccinated communities that are really, ripe for large infectious outbreaks. so we are seeing now a delta surge. what i'm worried about, what's going to slow this down? i don't think there's much of an appetite for large scale public health interventions. i think mask wearing is essential but my sense is people are over that as well. so only one thing stops this, which is large scale vaccinations and that's going to be hard given all the misinformation out there about vaccines. >> i want to ask you about that, doctor, because as dean of the brown university school of public health, brown obviously a
great university and the conversations you must be having among the professors and the student population about how to spread good, consistent public health information in the environment that we live in today. and i guess the question is, what have you heard? how do you compete out there? or is death really the only device that can be effective to communicate to people who are listening to facebook, trump conspiracy theories, and right wing media who are dead wrong, literally? >> yeah. look, this is such a complex problem and such a big problem we need a multi-prong strategy. right. so you need facebook among them. other social media outlets too but particularly facebook, to step up and do a lot more than they have. i appreciate their points that
they've made some efforts it's not nearly enough and they know they can do better. so i don't want to hear they're doing everything they can, they're not. that's number one. they have to block the bad information that's spreading. and the rest of us have to be sources of good information. we have to flood the zone with good, high quality information. the reason bad information thrives is because it's in a vacuum and we're not doing enough to counter it. we need a double pronged strategy here and facebook and other social media outlets have to play a role. >> mike barnicle? >> dr. jha, pfizer, the pfizer vaccine is alleged to have 88% effectiveness against the delta variant. do we have any idea of the effectiveness of the shelf life of the pfizer vaccine? how long it could be effective? do we have any idea of how lethal and long the delta variant will be, and will it be
followed by a series of other variants far into the unknown period of time ahead of us? >> boy, those are two terrific questions. let's talk about the pfizer vaccine as we know it. i think the same thing with moderna. we're seeing preliminary evidence out of israel, and this really -- i want to be cautious here, it's very preliminary. after six months you see waning of anti-bodies. you may start seeing a few more break through infections that means. i worry about this not for the general population. i don't think everyone needs to go out and get boosters but i worry for high risk populations, nursing home residents, the elderly. because even mild break through infections can be for them quite problematic. so we have to pay close attention to that, my hope is that it lasts longer than that. i think the strong protection
against hospitalizations and deaths, that's going to last longer but we have to pay close attention to this topic. the delta variant and future variants. variants arise when there are large outbreaks, basically they show up when we give the virus a chance to replicate, and large outbreaks give the virus a chance to replicate. that's where we receive seen the large outbreaks, as long as we leave parts of america, the world unvaccinated, there will be other variants. delta is really bad and the worst we've seen so far and we can't count on our luck. we have to get people vaccinated in america and around the world if we want to put the pandemic behind us. >> doctor, thank you for being on the show this morning. see you soon. now a new report from the cdc shows life expectancy in the u.s. last year saw the largest
one year drop since world war ii. deaths from covid-19 and drug overdoses fueled the decline, bringing the 2020 life expectancy down to 77.3 years. a 1.5 year decrease from 2019. willie? >> let's turn back to yesterday's move by house speaker nancy pelosi rejecting two of minority leader kevin mccarthy's picks for the committee to invest the attack on the capitol. leann caldwell joins us now. perhaps it's not surprising with the two people kevin mccarthy put up for the committee. what's next? they have hearings that start in a few days. >> speaker pelosi and democrats
on that committee and even representative liz cheney, who is a speaker pelosi pick, are determined to continue their work. they're moving forward with hiring staff, they're moving forward with preparing for that hearing that's just going to take place on tuesday. and at that hearing they're going to hear from rank and file capitol police and d.c. police officers about their experience on january 6th. and so, they had thought all along that with the republicans on the committee could interfere with the work they were trying to do. so, now that they are not going to be on this committee most likely, assuming that mccarthy continues to withdraw them, then they're just going to do the work they think unabashed with little interference from the republicans who they thought were just going to try to undermine their work and also be a distraction. >> so leann, what's the specific
objection from speaker pelosi to these two proposed members of the committee? because there was a third member who also voted to object to the certification of the results? what was the criteria that speaker pelosi used here? >> yeah, it wasn't their objection on january 6th to the electoral college vote. what speaker pelosi and aides and our sources are saying is that it has to do with them undermining the credibility not only of the committee but also the election itself, and representative cheney, she gathered with media yesterday and she said something extremely interesting. she said that one of the members could be a material witness to the select committee's work. she was talking about representative jim jordan, who has been in very close contact with the former president leading up to january 6th was part of a meeting planning with the president about how to
undermine the election results. and he has continuously questioned the legitimacy of president biden's election on, you know -- and continued to undermine and spread these false theories that perhaps biden did not legitimately win this election. so it's not about their vote on january 6th. it's about the actions that they have taken before then and since to undermine, you know, faith in democracy, really. >> that's an important point. that jim jordan and others met, back in december, with former president trump to strategize about january 6th not about the rally and the attack on the capitol. thanks so much. joining us now, assistant speaker of the house, democratic congresswoman katherine clark of massachusetts. i guess my question to you,
katherine, would be how do democrats plan to proceed, especially with the select committee, and have an appearance of credibility and bipartisanship? or is now the select committee exposed to looking too partisan? >> good morning, mika. and what we saw yesterday with the speaker's action was putting integrity back into the process. this is always been about one thing. the truth. let's follow the facts, wherever they lead us. and that has been our commitment as democrats to the american people. let's go back and look at the beginning of this commission. we had the grieving mother of officer sicknick coming and pleading with republicans to set up an independent commission where they could appoint
members, take it out of the political realm into an independent 9/11-style commission. those cries fell on deaf ears. that was voted down after months of negotiation with the ranking member, a republican, john kako of new york. it was tossed aside by republicans. kevin mccarthy does not want to look at the truth of this. there is a party of facts, that's the democrats and there is a party of falsehoods. that's the republicans. >> so i -- i get that. i think the biggest problem here is the same problem we're seeing with covid, and that is, you know, you can scream the truth from the mountaintops but it's not stemming the tide of disinformation about covid or january 6th. i understand why you wouldn't want a member on the select committee that might be a
witness, that could be problematic. but isn't there an argument for bringing in if some of these members who may not see it the same way, and that is being kind, so that there is an opportunity to hold them accountable and to really pour through and battle about the truth of this day in real time so that the american people can see this debate? >> you know, what we have to do is keep pursuing the truth. because that's what matters. walking over here today to the capitol, i was thinking about that day. i can still hear the roar of that angry mob. i can still smell the smoke in the air and the violence that took place, turning this sacred place of democracy into a crime scene, and the long-term implications of that for our democracy, that's what's at
stake. and what the speaker did yesterday was not say we're not going to put anyone on who voted in support of the big lie and against the electoral college. but there were two individuals who are conspiracy theorists, who, through their own words, have never admitted that joe biden is the president, who continue to undermine the very work of that select committee. this work is too important to allow it to turn into a political circus. so we are going to continue to higher professional staff, to put the facts before the american people. and it is those facts and the truth that will get us back to a strong robust, democracy. it is truly all on the line for us. and we cannot be a party to saying, you know, it's going to
be a political mess. and a chance to try and score points against the other side. the republicans are saying outloud what they usually say quietly. they see their role as to obstruct, obstruct everything. obstruct finding the truth, obstruct our elections, obstruct the right to vote. obstruct getting vaccines to people. to reopening our schools and small businesses. the democrats are going to show up every single day and fight for the american people. fight for our economy. move us forward in this moment of racial reckoning and climate justice. that's what we do every single day here. that's what we're going to do continue to do to deliver for the american people. >> it's jonathan lemire, i want to shift gears, congresswoman, yesterday in the senate a vote over the infrastructure deal failed. there is
there is optimism that a deal can be reached, though. the margins in the house are very, very thin. can you give us an assessment as to where things stand there on infrastructure, both this hard deal but also the far bigger reconciliation deal the will be likely democrats only. are these things going to pass? >> they are going to pass because that is what the american people sent us here to do. they said to us in 2020, we want action. we want to be at the center of the priorities again. that's why democrats won the white house, the house, and the senate. it is not going to be easy. our margins are slim. but what we have in abundance is a commitment to getting this done. to making sure that we are creating good jobs, good paying green jobs. that we are looking those who look after our loved ones. our mothers and fathers, our
children. all of the things that make an economy not only roaring but inclusive. and that is exactly the work that we are doing every day. so i can tell you, when it comes to the house democrats, we are not only working diligently, we are excited about the opportunities that are before us with the jobs plan and the families plan. how process through what parliamentary procedure we go forward with this, that's going to be determined in the next weeks and months. but i can tell you that to a member, we are excited about this opportunity to not only build back better, but build back more inclusive. >> assistant speaker, katherine clark, thank you so much for being on the show this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," former president trump keeps teasing a possible 2024
presidential run. but would he keep mike pence on his ticket? what the former president is saying about that in the new book, "ai loan can fix it". plus transportation secretary pete buttigieg will be our guest. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. re watching" we'll be right back. there's an america we build and one we explore. one that's been paved and one that's forever wild. but freedom means you don't have to choose just one adventure. you get both. introducing the wildly civilized all-new 3-row jeep grand cherokee l
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had mike pence had the courage to send it back to the legislatures you would have had a different outcome in my opinion. >> is that what you told him to do? the vice president? >> i didn't tell him to do anything. >> what did you want him to do? what did you expect him to do? >> i thought that the election was rigged. i think when you have more votes than you had voters, i think that the vice president of the united states must protect the
constitution of the united states, right. and it says very, very clearly protect the constitution of the united states. i don't believe he's just supposed to be a statue who gets these votes from the states and immediately hands them over. if you see fraud, then i believe you have an obligation to do one of a number of things. thomas jefferson took the votes, okay, just so you know. so i said, mike, you can be thomas jefferson or you can be mike pence. >> all right. that's brand new audio from our next guest's interview with former president trump at mar-a-lago. joining us is the co-author of the book, "i alone can fix it, donald j. trump's catastrophic final year," phil rucker, correspondent for "the washington post" and political
correspondent for msnbc and nbc news. i want to ask you what you were thinking when he was talking about mike pence and thomas jefferson? what was going through your head. >> first of all, i was thinking this is not constitutional what he wanted mike pence to do. and secondly, for him to be talking about a loyal, steadfast side kick for four years, one of the reasons that trump picked pence was because pence was a statue. he stood there, looking adoreingly at everything that trump said and did. it's just ironic that what trump expected from him that day at the capitol was to be a statue at the moment he couldn't be. >> the reward for that loyalty was a mob chanting hang mike
pence. carol leonnig asked the former president what he wanted to happen when the crowd marched on the capitol. and the answer, capitol police were responsible for what happened that day by allowing the crowds into the building. let's listen to the tape. >> it was a loving crowd too by the way. there was a lot of love. i've heard that from everybody. many, many people told me that was a loving crowd. it was too bad, it was too bad that they did that. >> but mr. president, i apologize, what we're trying to understand is not blame, not castigate -- >> i understand. >> we want to understand what did you want when you said go up there? what did you dream for them to do? >> i would have said that you will show -- not to go in, although they were ushered in by the police. in all fairness, the capitol police were ushering people in.
the capitol police were very friendly, they were hugging and kissing, you don't see that. there's plenty of tape on that, too. because the capitol police were -- that's the way it is. but i wanted -- i mean, personally what i wanted is what they wanted. >> disgraceful, phil and insulting to the legacy of those officers we've seen in video after video after video trying to hold the line, being assaulted by trump supporters, sometimes with american flags, being beaten and at least one case within an inch of his life. but central, it's important to hear that tape because it's central to the army we've heard on other networks, online, that we hear people say the media has blown this out of proportion, it wasn't as bad as it appears that we've seen with our own eyes. >> that comment from the former president is a complete and wholesale distortion of the truth. we watched it unfold. there was not love in that crowd.
there was hate, there was violence, a desire to find and then to hang the vice president, mike pence. that was an ugly day in washington and for this country and it was just chilling for me and carol to hear trump, several months later, describe it in that way, as a loving crowd. and to say what he wanted as the president. he swore an oath to protect the country to hear him say what he wanted was what he wanted, what they wanted was to overturn democracy and hang the vice president. >> yes. his views about the high court have clearly changed because of the election. take a look. >> i needed better judges. the supreme court was afraid to take it. don't forget, if you take all of the -- everything out, take all of the dead people that voted and there were thousands of them
by the way, we have lists. if you take all of that, just look at one thing. the legislatures of the states did not approve all of the things that were done for those elections. and under the constitution of the united states, they have to do that. and the supreme court, they didn't find fact. don't forget, they didn't say well, we disagree. they said, we're not going to hear the case. i'm very disappointed in the supreme court. >> all right. phillip rucker give us the context of these comments, many of which are not true. and also, i just again -- you're sitting there, looking at donald trump saying these things, speaking in this way, what are you thinking? i'm looking at someone who is dot dot dot. finish the sentence for me. >> someone who's living in his own head, has no grasp on
reality, won't accept what actually happened. and, you know, there may be something worse than that. i don't know. i'm not a psychologist, i can't diagnose him but clearly he was not thinking clearly and not thinking in rational truth. look, the comment about the list of obituaries, that's not true. there were -- department of justice, fbi people who looked into these claims of election fraud and did not find enough evidence to be substantial in any way shaping the outcome. what he's talking about with the legislatures, he wanted on january 6th for pence and the congress to send the electoral college counts back in a number of key states, arizona and pennsylvania among them. and his grand plan was republican allies in those state legislatures would somehow through some shenanigans in those state capitols be able to
send a different set of electors into the college who could somehow vote in trump instead of biden. despite the popular vote totals in those states. it's a preposterous plan, it's not constitutional, legal, it's what trump imagined and wanted pence to do. and, of course, it did not happen because january 20th, president biden was sworn in. >> beyond the pressure he put on his vice president. tell us how you find trump was trying to use the levers of government to try to overturn the results of the election. while there, did he give any sense as to what his future plans might be? do you think we'll see him again run for president in 2024? >> that second question first. he certainly indicated to us he wanted to run for president in 2024, he's serious about it, thinking and looking about it. that's three years away. that's a long time in politics. he's already 75 years old, so
who knows when he turns 76, 77, if he's going to feel up for the challenge. it's exhausting to run for president, of course, but he gave every indication he wanted to. i asked him if he would pick pence as his running mate in 2024 and he would not commit to that. he made clear he would leave open the possibility of a different vice presidential running mate. when i said pence wants to run as for president as well, what if you run against each other? he said, that's okay. trump wanted to use every power he could to overturn the results including pressuring attorney general bill barr and later acting attorney general jeffrey rosen to investigate fraud and what he wanted to do was find evidence, come up with something they could claim as evidence for this widespread voter fraud that trump imagined existed.
the evidence didn't exist but trump put the pressure on the justice department and on other branchs. to the point that the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, mark milley, feared he could use the military in a coup to hang onto the power. and they were trying to guard against kind of rash or irrational action the president may have taken in those days. >> i wonder if he understands the deadly consequences of the way he wields his leadership. people went to the capitol to commit acts of violence against leaders in the democratic process against his name. people are refusing the vaccine in the name of trump conspiracy theories. and this is a man who is driven by hatred. here's part of what trump said about the late senator, john mccain. >> john mccain was a bad guy. he was a bully guy and nasty
guy, bad guy. a lot of people disliked him. last in his class at annapolis all that stuff. but he was a bad guy. i say that to you, i don't care. does it affect me? i won arizona, okay, by a lot. didn't turn out that way in terms of the vote, but i won arizona. i didn't get along with john mccain. >> mike barnicle, take it away. what do you make of this? >> so, phil -- phil, let me ask you. you and carol are there, sitting before a clearly irrational human being, a former president of the united states, he, in that statement and many other statements not only just the statement about john mccain but many other statements that he made to you, is clearly clinging to an imagined and sometimes real past that the country has lived through. tell us a little about his physical reaction. how did he look?
he sounds exhausted in many of the answers that he gives to you on the tape. what was his reaction physically to some of the tougher questions that you asked? >> that's a great question. first of all, just to be clear, i know everyone watching at home knows that joe biden won arizona but it needs to be said. what trump just said is true. he did not win arizona in 2020. but to his physical comportment, you know, it was interesting, he wore the full suit, like he normally does, a face full of makeup like he was on television, but we were two people interviewing him with a digital recorder, no cameras anywhere. he seemed relatively high energy in the conversation. we were scheduled to meet with him for an hour to interview him for the book, and he talked to us for two hours and 45 minutes. and every half hour his press secretary would interrupt, sir,
it's been an hour, an hour and a half, to end the conversation if he wanted to, and he didn't because he wanted to keep getting this alternate reality out and he wanted to keep telling the lies as if he told it to us so many times we'd be convinced. but we weren't those kind of reporters we came to him after doing the research with other people who told us what it was like behind the scenes there. this was checking a box at the book reporting process to hear what he had to say. it was enlightening because clearly he's still in that imagined world there. >> wow, phillip rucker thank you very much, the book is "i alone can fix it." coming up while there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud in the 2020 election, at least 18 states have enacted laws this year that make it harder for americans to vote. what it spells out for the
future of access to the ballot, next on "morning joe." joe." vo: the climate crisis is here. berardelli: these temperatures are almost unbelievable even for a meteorologist. vo: and the solution is here too: clean energy. like wind turbines and solar panels. now, congress has to invest in it and the millions of workers ready to install it across the country. because in america, we don't hide from problems like climate change.
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this is jim crow on steroids what we're talking about. so it takes -- go to your second point. i've been saying for a long, long time, the abuse of the filibuster is pretty overwhelming. when i got to the united states senate, at a time when we had guys like jim eastland and robert f. bird and a whole range of people who were very, very, very, very, very, very conservative on race to say the least, even then if you were to filibuster you had to stand on the floor and hold the floor. and that's why strahm i think
set the record at 24 straight hours or something, don't hold me to the number. so you had to take -- there were significantly fewer filibusters in those days, in the middle of the civil rights movement. >> let me talk to you about that -- >> let me finish my answer because i tell you what i'd do. i would go back to that where you have to maintain the floor. you have to stand there and talk and hold the floor. >> president biden talking last night during a cnn town hall, criticizing republican-led attempts to curb voting rights but stopping short of falling for an end to the filibuster. joining us michael waldman and also with us president of the national action network reverend al sharpton. i want to dive into these laws but based on what we've heard last night and we've heard again and again from president biden, last night he said jim crow on
steroids. the suggestion that it's worse than jim crow. a jim crow style assault on voting rights. that allowed some republicans to dismiss what he's saying as if saying this is not comparable to the horrors of jim crow. what do you think about the messaging from the white house? >> i think the messaging is really talking about the existential threat that we have to voting. i think it's right on target. when the eight civil rights leaders, including me, of organizations met with him, this is what we said. this is not a problem. this is a disaster. because you are undermining the right of people to vote in a systemic way all over the country. this is not just a texas problem or florida problem. it's gone all over the country and the president needs to put the gravity of the situation before the american people. it is jim crow with steroids. >> michael let's walk through some of your exclusive new
findings about the state of voting rights, between january and july, at least 18 states enacted 30 law that is restrict access to the vote, among them, limiting the number, location or availability of ballot drop boxes we saw that in florida and georgia, amid other states. other states expanded the purge of voter lists. and you may have heard about efforts to ban water to voters waiting in line to cast ballots and to impose harsher identification requirements for mail-in voting. in your assessment of things, michael, how serious is this problem? >> it is an extraordinarily serious problem. it is a threat to our democracy. and it's happening all over the country, as has been said. it's systemic and the laws, they look neutral on their face, they're different in different places, they're all carefully targeted at voters of color,
young voters, voters that the politicians don't want a voice. we can't look away say it's hard to deal with. it sounds outlandish to yell the alarm but it is a major threat. and president biden the other day, i was there in philadelphia when he spoke. he said it's the gravest threat to our democracy since the civil war. our leaders need to act as if that's true. >> so there's the question of access to voting. that's what you're talking about here. there's also, on the back end, something we've been talking about a lot on this show. who gets to count the votes, challenge the votes, that in many ways is as serious as what's happening in terms of access. >> that's right. that stuff gets slipped into the legislation late at night. that's what happened in georgia and what's happening in texas if they ever pass their bills there when they have their special legislative session. what they did in georgia was give the state legislature the chance to remove county election officials or -- remember when
the secretary of state of georgia when president trump called him and taped the call and said i want you to find 11,000 votes that's what i need. he was a republican, but said no, they took away his power in the legislation. that's authoritarian in its implications. and the only solution is federal action. it's a great clash between these states rushing forward all over the country but congress has the power legally and constitutionally to do something about it. the question is, does it have the political will. >> the secretary of state in georgia held the line there. brad raffensperger held theline somebody installed there won't. >> absolutely. that's why a lot of us call for this national march in washington august 28th. which is 58 years to the day of the father's i have a dream speech, the march on voting rights, because when you look at the fact, this will be an ongoing onslaught, which is why you need federal legislation.
because the census taken last year will go intoic. they will use the same state legislative houses changing voting laws to gerrymander and bring down the numbers of us in the state legislatures. they have a master plan, in my opinion, to really overturn what happened in the voting rights and sill movement rights of the '60s and undermine democracy, because they will use that census data to try to redraw lines, which will draw people out of congress, out of the state legislatures. and we will be in a real intractable position unless we act now with federal law. >> so the speech in philadelphia where the president said this is the greatest civil democracy since the civil war. during that speech, he didn't mention leicester once. he did last night in support of the talking filibuster, some think helps but does not go far enough. can any of this be done?
is there any chance to restore voting rights without the filibuster? if not, why isn't he out doing a full court press to get rid of it? >> we brought that up to him our position in our private meeting with him and as i told you, i talked to him about it in philadelphia. he said they're dealing with it. his position is to change the filibuster at this point. i think congressman clapper's recommendation that we have a work-around. you can work around the philly bust tore do fiscal and financial issues, do a work-around on the constitutional issue of voting. that's the way we can get around it. i'd like to see the filibuster go. at least do the work-around. i think that's what we're trying to push the senate to do. >> a lot of these states run by republicans, these laws will move forward. the texas democrats said our only we course is to see the federals to do something.
>> the house of representatives passed hr-1, the for the people ac. when it was brought to the floor of the senate, it got 50 votes, including senator joe manchin to begin the debate. he has a version of the bill. it's a strong voting rights bill. the real question is, are we willing to tolerate this assault on voting rights and as the reverend said on august 18th, redistricting starts, meaning the gerrymandering starts. time is really of the essence. they don't need to eliminate the filibuster to make it possible for voting rights bims to go -- bills to go forward. it's a matter of political will. this legislation is very popular. i should remember, the supreme court gravely weakened the voting rights act again just a couple weeks ago. congress can fix that as well with the john lewis voting rights advancement act. all of this can happen and there is political support for it.
it just is going to be hard. we need our leaders, including president biden and the others to step up. >> the john lewis legislation may have more support than does the larger one. fascinating. we'll stay on this, michael waldman, brennan, justice for the university school of law. it'sules u always good to see you. great conversation. there appears to be a fracture forming in the group of more than 50 texas democrats who fled to washington, d.c. in order to block a restrictive voting bill from passing. philip cortez, a democrat, who represents san antonio is back in the texas capital this morning after returning from d.c. in a statement, he says he is a part of a small working group of democrats engaging in good faith dialogue with republicans, adding we need to fight this battle on parallel tracks in texas and washington, d.c.
his fellow democrats still in d.c. say cortez is not negotiating on their behalf and are urging him to come back. and still ahead, florida governor ron desantis adds his voice to the globe number of republicans all of a sudden pushing really hard for their constituents to get vaccinated against the coronavirus. plus, the fight over investigating the january 6th capitol insurrection heats up after house speaker nancy pelosi rejects two of minority leader kevin mccarthy's committee picks. "morning joe" is coming right back. back
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vaccinated, the chance of you dying or getting covid is effectively zero. if you look at people admitted to hospitals, over 95% of them are either not fully vaccinated or not vaccinated at all. so these vaccines are saving lives. they are reducing mortality. >> another republican leader touting the importance and safety of the covid vaccines, trying to undo the severe damage that's been done by the malicious disinformation that has contributed to now a fourth wave of the pandemic. it's real and it is deadly for those who are unvaccinated. that and a lot more to cover on this thursday, july 22nd. but first, willie will start on yesterday's move by nancy pelosi that is being called unprecedented. >> yeah, house speaker nancy pelosi rejected two of minority leader kevin mccarthy's picks
for the select committee task with investigating the january 6th attack on the united states capitol. now mccarthy is threatening a complete boivenlth nbc political correspondent gar haake has the details. >> an egregious position of power. pelosi has broken this institution. >> reporter: speaker pelosi announced she would reject two of his choices for the panel. the republicans now calling the in the a sham while democrats vow to push ahead. >> we have a bipartisan car rum. >> reporter: the speaker writing that her unprecedented decision to not seat ohio's jim jordan or indiana's jim banks was necessary to protect the integrity of the investigation. >> reporter: the fact that she has rejected two recommendations for two members who have indicated that they are not supportive of the objective in this select committee is consistent with how serious this
committee is and how important it is to have patriots serving on this committee, not partisans. >> reporter: now just one republican remains on the committee, wyoming's liz cheney, along seven democrats, defending the investigation to come. >> this must be an investigation focused on facts and the idea that any of this has become politicized is really unworthy of the office that we all hold and unworthy of our republic. >> garrett haake reporting from capitol hill. punch bowl news jake sherman and white house reporter for associated press jonathan le mere doing yeoman's work and editor of the new york maura grey. jake, let me start with you and what we saw on capitol hill yesterday perhaps predictable it was going this way when jim jordan was placed on the committee. what strikes me sitting sheer republicans are acting like two months ago they did not have the
chance to create the commission that they're lamenting is not created here, a 9/11-style commission. six republicans made that vote. it wasn't enough to korea it the commission and it failed. and now here we are with this select committee which is falling apart before our eyes. what is going on here? what happens next? >> so what happens next, willie, is that we have an all democratic panel. that's what happens next and plus liz cheney, that's exactly right, appointed by nancy pelosi, who said yesterday mccarthy should never be speaker and she agrees to remove jim jordan and jim banks from the committee. i don't know what the politics of this are. i think to be honest, willie, if i had to read the lines from the pure political angle, they both kind of got what they wanted, right? i think mccarthy didn't want to participate in this and wouldn't
have created it out of his own volition, quite obviously. he's not participating in it now. it's a shame because this again should be a partisan issue because as somebody who was there that day, it was a tragic incident. that's number one. number two, what you said, willie, republicans are complaining about things they had in their power to put in place. they voted against a bipartisan committee. a committee in which they would have had veto power over every subpoena, over everything the committee did. they threw that away several months ago. now here we are. they sigh they will do their own investigation and they said yesterday mccarthy, banks, jordan, all those guy, all men, which a lot of people foy in the capitol, what they said is that their top priority is why wasn't the capitol better prepared? that's a fair character -- question to be asking in the
scheme of things. i would not say that's a lot of people's top priorities, generally speaking. mccarthy points it to the senate version which has been ongoing. clearly, he's not very interested and he said this he doesn't want a committee with pelosi. >> mitch mcconnell two months ago with the the 9/11-style commission him when you have mccarthy standing there talking about the sanctity of the people's house and nancy pelosi, rolling your eyes is the minimum. they had the chance, republicansed that chance to do the kind of investigation that they're talking about and they want us to forget that they passed on it. >> yee. yeah. we hit on the deeply cynical play. republicans will put up a report as a co-equal to what the pelosi's and the democrats plus liz keen will do. two versions of the truth. they will water it down. it's more of the obscuring, the
fog machine as to what happened on january 6th. it continues the pattern on republicans down playing the severity of that day, which by the way we seemingly get new video every day that underscores how harrowing it was and how much was it could have been had it not been for some heroism from police officers. this will become another political talking point and turn the page on this as quickly as they k. bury it saying it's washington politics again, despite pressure from the white house for this to happen. despite democrats going into it seemingly with a good faith effort, a bipartisan attempt to get into the bottom of what happened, to pre ven it-to-from happening again. republicans won't play ball. more and more americans will say, look, this is why washington is so broke. >> so here is more from republican congresswoman liz cheney yesterday about minority leader kevin mccharity's threat to pull his picks for january 6th select committee. >> the rhetoric we have heard from the minority leader is
disingenuous. the attack on this building on juran 6th was the worst attack on this capitol since 1814. it was an attack on our constitution. the american people deserve to know what happened. the people who did this must be held accountable. there must be an investigation that is non-partisan, that is sober, that is serious, that gets to the facts wherever they may lead and at every opportunity the minority leader has attempted to prevent the american people from understanding what happened, to block this investigation. >> mccarthy, of course, wants to become speaker next year. do you think he deserves to be speaker in the aftermath of his actions? >> i think that any person who would be third in line to the presidency must demonstrate a commitment to the constitution and a commitment to the rule of law and minority leader mccarthy has not done that.
>> so margay, i see two strains here in this country, two strains of division and a lack of respect for basic truth that could ultimately lead to the rubber meeting the road for republicans. i know for the entire trump presidency, we kept hearing this is it, this is it, this is it. but i do think these two strains could be it. i'm wondering, if this editorial would make it to the "new york times" editorial board, but you have a bake bake /* basic impossibility ruled out by nancy pelosi because of a basic commitment to truth, about what happened on january 6th, that it was an insurrection. that it was violent. that it was an attack on our democratic process. there is that basic truth that is being debated, which is an impossibility.
you can't deba it the truth. and then have you the truth about covid. and this delta variant that is isolating the lives and the conspiracy theories again under the umbrella of trump. january 6th and covid. and i think this may be where the rubber meets the road for republicans who appear to be running for cover on covid. do you agree? >> oh, mika, what you lay out is, of course, exactly what's happening in this country. the unfortunate part is that so many times we've talked about it, you and i, i mean, we think that the dam is going to break and it just hasn't. and i think that's why liz cheney is playing such a crucial role because her presence on this committee which should be far more bipartisan and robust in that way than it is, is proof positive that this is a serious task to really get to the bottom
of what happened on january 6th and that this is not about partisanship. i think what we are seeing is another step, another touch-tone of the republican party's slow walk away from democracy and towards just an interest in sheer power. the frustrating thing is that because of the right wing media juggernaut that is helping pump this disinformation into the eyes and minds and ears of so many americans, they can kind of run. the party can run on these fumes for much longer than it otherwise would. so the amount of disinformation i think that americans are receiving is vast and we're not talking about different points of view. we are talking about untruths, lies, and in this case, they're very dangerous that vaccines could be dangerous, that covid
isn't that big of a deal or that fellow americans are against you somehow. all of these things are lies and they're very dangerous. so that's kind of what democracy is up against. the democratic party cannot do this alone. we feed a multi-party democracy. we need competition in elections in this country. and so as long as the republican party, as long as its members truly are getting away elect torely behaving this way, our democracy is in real trouble. the fact that they don't feel a need to take part in this very basic exercise of defending the capitol and those who were there that day is, should really set off alarm bells for the rest of the country. and liz cheney should not be standing alone here. this is kind of an all hands what we call a five-alarm fire
in new york for democracy. this is a real problem. >> still ahead, a gut-wrenching reality check for those refusing to get vaccinated. a healthcare worker describes the harrowing final moments of those who realized they should have protected themselves. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. "morning j. we'll be right back. vo: and the solution is here too: clean energy. like wind turbines and solar panels. now, congress has to invest in it and the millions of workers ready to install it across the country. because in america, we don't hide from problems like climate change. we take them on. we innovate. we lead. because if we invest in these workers, and their future at this moment, that's how we build back better. ice cream is like whooping cough, it's not just for kids. whooping cough is highly contagious for people of any age. and it can cause violent uncontrollable coughing fits. ask your doctor or pharmacist about whooping cough vaccination
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now we turn to the latest with coronavirus where cases here in the u.s. have nearly tripled over the last two weeks if a growing number of hospitals. patients most unvaccinated and young. nbc news' allison barber returned to one hospital in south carolina. >> reporter: a year ago the covid icu at lexington medical center was pushed to the brink. this week, doctors say it's feeling like de ja vu. >> we can easily be back in the
same situation. >> reporter: this man is the newest covid patient, they are trying to figure out if he needs to be on a ventilator. >> there is a high likelihood he will need covid care. >> reporter: a patient is receiving a plasma exchange because some of his organs a failing. >> we get here there were zero covid patients. today there are nine and four of them are on ventilators. the vast majority unvaccinated. >> it would be their only diagnosis of some. others had no conditions another all and the only link is that they're not vaccinated. >> reporter: alonzo chromeer was hospitalized for nearly two months. he was el general to get vaccinated earlier in the year and didn't. now he will tell anyone who will listen. >> go get the vaccination.
the covid is for real. it had me on my dying bed. >> reporter: statewide, hospitalizations increased by 103% in less than a month. >> what i ask is to continue to understand the vaccine. the benefit outweigh the risks 100-1. >> oh, god. yesterday, we talked about the cult of trump, the irrational avoidance of objective, verifiable facts related to covid. the vaccine. or the election. and it has all the markings of a cult. the fact that 99% of people who go to hospitals now with covid are those who did not get the vaccine and the fact that most supporters of donald trump still refuse to get the vaccine. it shows how powerful that cult has become. look at the people who voted for donald trump now dying in hospital beds across middle america and understand this has become a death cult. please understand this.
it's not like one. sadly, even doctors who sign death certificates of family peb was refuse to get the vaccine and try to save their surviving family pebs are now subject to threats. one example is an alabama doctor. all but one dr. brittany's patients says birmingham's grand view medical center did not receive the coronavirus vaccine. the vaccinated patient is expected to fully recover. but some of the unvaccinated ones are dying. and she pleaded on a post on facebook saying this. i'm admitting young healthy people to the hospital with very serious covid infections. one of the last things they do before they're intubated is beg me for the vaccine. i hold their hand and i tell them that i'm sorry, but it's too late. a few days later, when i call time of death, i hug their
family members and i tell them the best way to honor their loved one is to go get vaccinated and encourage everyone they know to do the same. they cry and tell me they didn't know. they thought it was a hoax. they thought it was political. they thought because they had a certain blood type or a certain skin color that they wouldn't get as sick. they thought it was just the flu. but they were wrong and they wished they could go back but they can't. so they thank me and they go get the vaccine. and i go back in my office. i write their death note and say a small prayer that this loss will save more lives. coming up, we'll talk to one of president biden's cabinet official transportation secretary pete buttigieg joins us with the latest on the infrastructure debate. morning joe back in a moment. infrastructure debate. morning joe back in a moment
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if mike pence had the courage to send it back to the legislatures, you would have had a different outcome in my opinion. >> is that what you told him to do? >> i didn't tell him to do anything. >> what did you want him to do? >> i thought the election was rigged. i think when you have more votes than you had voters, i think that the vice president of the united states must protect the constitution of the united states. rate? and it says very, very clearly protect the constitution of the united states. i don't believe he's just supposed to be a stash coup who gets these votes from the states and immediately hand them over. if you see fraud, then i believe you have an obligation to do one of a number of things. thomas jefferson took the votes, okay, just so you know. so i said, pike, you can be thomas jefferson or you can be
mike pence. >> all right. that's brand-new audio from our next guest interview with former president trump at mar-a-lago. joining us there was the co-author of the book, i alone can fix it, donald trump's final year. philip rutger a senior washington correspondent and for "the washington post" and political analyst for msnbc and nbc news. phil, i want to first ask you who you were thinking when he was talking there about mike pence and thomas jefferson. now, i just want to know what was going through your head? >> reporter: well, first of august all, i was thinking this is not constitutional what president trump wanted pence to do. it was also a really odd way for him to be talking about a vice president who we all watched with our own eyes for four years as the loyal steadfast scyofant
side kick. he chose him because he was a statue, he would stand over trump's shoulder, smiling, adoringly, approving everything he said and did. yet on january 6th, that seemed to be the breaking point for pence. it's i raonic what trump expected that day is to be a sta statue. there was a word for that, that loyalty was a mob, would haveing through the capitol chanting hang mike pence. carol leonnig asked, and trump suggested capitol police somehow were responsible for what happened that day by allowing the crowds into the building. let's listen to the tape. >> it was a loving crowd, too, by the way. there was a lot of lot. . i've heard that from eb, many, many people have told me that was a loving crowd. and, you know, it was too bad. it was too boyhood that, you
know, that they did that. >> mr. president, i apologize, what we're trying to understand is not blame, not casti gate. >> no, i understand. >> we want to understand what you sid want when you went there? >> that you will show not to go in, although, they were ushered in by the police. i mean, in all fairness, the capitol police were ushering people in. the capitol police were very friendly. you know, they were hugging and kissing. you don't see that. but there's plenty of tape on that, too. because the capitol police were, that's the way it is. but i wanted, i mean, personally what i wanted is what they wanted. >> a disgraceful fill-in, insulting the legacy of those officers we seen in video after video after video trying to hold the line, being assaulted by trump supporters, sometimes with american flags, being beaten in at least one case to within an inch of his life.
but central, it's important to hear that tape. because it's central to the argument we've heard on other networks, that we hear online, miami say the media has broken this out of proportion. it wasn't as bad as we've all seen with our own eyes. >> that's right. that comment is complete and wholesale distortion of the truth. we all watched this unfold. there was not love in that crowd. there was hate. there was violence. a desire to fine and then to hang the vice president mike pence. that was an ugly harrowing day in washington and for this country and it was just chilling for me and carol to hear trump several months later describe it in this way, as a loving crowd. and to say what he wanted as the president. he swore an oath to protect this country. to hear him say what he wanted is what they wanted. well, what they wanted was to stack the capitol, overtake democracy and hang the vice
president. >> philip rutger, thank you very much. the new book is i alone can fix it, donald j. trump's catastrophic final year. coming up, president biden's push to restore relations on the world stage. we'll talk to a leading voice from the european parliament about that. and china's growing influence. that's next on "morning joe." gr. that's next on "morning joe. there's an america we build
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plan in jeopardy. secretary of transportation, pete buttigieg, very happy to have you. you tweeted the framework makes possible for safe roads, modern transit and universal broadband that americans are asking for. we cannot miss this moment. how do we get to yes? how do we not miss this moment? >> well, it feels that things are still headed in a good direction. we are witnessing all of the procedural complexity of the united states congress and it can be messy. but over the coming days, feel confident of reaching the point where this can get to the floor and the sooner this can get to the president's desk for signature is better. on the road last week seeing first hand the need in communities as different as tribal country in arizona and the south side of chicago and what every single party in this country has in common is seeing the immediate need to do more for transit and bridges and
airports to get lead out of our pipes, people get it. there is a broad consensus, including among parties usually not on the same side. today the president and vice president are going to be sitting down at the white house with supporters of this package who come from the business leadership and business community and from labor, who are rarely pulling in the same direction. you got everybody from different building trade, organizations to the chamber of commerce, the national association of manufacturers all saying let's do this. so there is a ton of positive bipartisan momentum to this. in washington nothing moves in a straight line. there will be more twists and turns to get this done. >> well, senators are asking for a new vote on monday. i'm just curious, what is going to get -- you say there is a lot of bipartisan agreement. what can get a vote through and so in this can actually become a reality and are you concerned that there is not a bipartisan
reality for infrastructure? >> so what we have is republican and democratic senators, a critical mass who have shaken hand and said this is the frame for what we want to do. it turns out the devil is in the details and there are pieces that need to work through. the next thing that has to happen is basically vote to have a vote. it's a procedural move that lets the debate begin in earnest, the actual process of getting the text out there. there are a few areas that need smoothed over. but the overall picture looks encouraging. that's important because i think americans are really impatient to get this done. fought just within the context of this year but the many years there has been a lot of talk about infrastructure. what we are seeing is this framework gives us a chance to do the biggest investment, for example, in public transit that we have ever done as a country. the biggest in passenger rail since amtrak was created in the
first place. the most going to roads and bridges since the eisenhower administration. they set up the interstate highway system to begin with. these are big moves, remarkably, they appear to be support that will soon be put to the test. that means the legislation the president is eager to sign. >> it's good to see you this morning. we have been out on the highways a lot this summer driving around and talking to kids about what a marvel it is that these roads even exist. you take them for granted. we all have our complaints about them. the idea that somebody sat down and said let's build roads, the engineering, the work that went into that, the ingenuity that went into that miami are look at what's the next step of infrastructure means in 2021 as we've gone well past generations past highways. at least the establishment of them. so what is it? let's brit down to a ground level. let's say this bipartisan package gets through and it's
passed? what does it look like practically to an average american, what changes? what are the updates that highway systems of the 1950s and today? >> yeah, you are rate. we count on the highway system now and forget you audacious and ambitious it was in the 19 visit when a cross country road trip could take two weeks and you mate not be certain that there were going to be gas stations where you needed them. well, the same thing is true now with electric vehicles. people aren't always certain that they can get a distance of thousands of miles or hundreds of miles and know where the charging stations are. we will change that, building a network of 500,000 electric vehicle charging stations. you think of the internet. it is today in the economy what the interstate highway connection used to be. today you need both. that's why you get every single american internet, which is a part of what this bill is going to do. so tahitian are the kind of changes working into the future.
the truth is, we got to take care of what we got. the same highways, we have been coasting off some of those investments for a long tame. the last tame we spoke, we were looking at fine 10 construction that hundreds of thousands of passengering still count on, it's true when you look in every part of the country, that you see some piece of infrastructure in pittsburgh, looking up on a riverboat to look at lots and dams. i looked up at one of the most important bridges of the city. you can see the pesh hang that they've installed hanging under the bridge to catch the pieces of concrete that fall off it from time to time. so in addition to the exciting futuristic stuff we can do from electric vehicles and beyond, we also got to take care of what we got. >> another way that infrastructure is in the news beyond, of course, the deliberations is the potential target of cyber attacks, the oil pipeline of a few weeks ago.
that attack chief among them. i know with concerns, some ransom ware, some more malicious that attempts to knock out critical pieces of infrastructure, power, water, whatever it might be. can you tell us a little about especially this year, this issue comes to focus, things that your department is doing to seifguard critical pieces of the american infrastructure against cyber attacks, originating domestic or overseas? >> we are paying close attention to this. and in particular working very closely with the department of homeland security, which has a lot of the resources on cyber as well as the overall national security effort led, of course, by the white house and the president. the president has made clear publicly in no uncertain terms that the u.s. will respond, that we aren't going to tolerate the kind of cyber attacks that are being sponsored or blessed by state actors, but, of course, we also see in some ways this sort of distribution or
democratization of these capabilities, some of these ransom ware things are pretty much off the shelf software, any individual or organization can acquire. which is why we are doing to work relationships we have to help encourage players to hardener that targets. so much infrastructure is state and federally owned and operated. when you look at, you know, water systems, those are owned and operated by small towns or communities. when i look at electrical grid or pipelines, they're owned and operated by companies him some of those aren't very big or have resources to deal with this so we have to partner with them to mike sure they have taken the steps to be more immune. we were talking vaccinating inoculating the public. we need to do something to better inknock light late /*
inoculate our infrastructure. >> pete bute girk good to see you. the democrats are trying to get measures to climate change in an infrastructure bills. we are seeing extreme droughts and wildfires sending spoke across the entire country. national correspondent miguel almaguer has the latest. >> reporter: burning hotter, faster and more explosive than ever before, tonight's wildfires in the west are threatening homes and lives. firefighters say what's unfolding here is more than one disaster feeding off another. historic drought is the perfect fuel for these epic conditions. but it's climate change creating infernos larger than ever, a vortex of smoke powerful enough to spawn their own weather systems. the unimaginable is becoming routine.
>> we're seeing hot heat waves like we've never seen before and then the wind is just a formula for disaster. >> reporter: the fire chief and his crew say what's already been lost is devastating. what is still at risk is mind-boggling. >> these fires are moving with such speed that it's exceeding all the models we have used for decades when trying to gauge fire spread. we hear it all the time from citizens, i didn't think the fire was going to get here that quickly. >> reporter: while extreme conditions aren't new, the intensity and duration is. this year, texas was buried under historic snow and ice. tropical storms and hurricanes are forming earlier in the season, catastrophic floods are becoming routine and the cool climates record record heat, 94% is in the keenl of extreme drought. >> the impacts of climate change are largely unknown.
so we do expect increased heat and 2347bd incidents of fire. >> reporter: scientists say greenhouse gas must start the solution. >> it's difficult to go back in time and return the greenhouse gas levels to the level that they were 50 years ago. i do think it's important to not lose hope, to consider that we still have options. >> reporter: these scorching fires burn in the west, toxic smoke drifts thousands of miles and chokes the east. the sun tainted red in its soupy haze. the planet's beauty and peril came wide. and up next, the joint chief of staffs troubling assessment over the in afghanistan. several companies reimpose measures to help stem the
coronavirus. the uk is lifting restrictions. how it plays into europe's struggle to contain a new surge in cases. keep it right here on "morning joe." it right here on "morning joe. ♪ ♪ know this about the jungle, everything that you see wants to kill you and can. ♪ ♪ ♪ born to be wild ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ born to be wild ♪ ♪ ♪ see disney's jungle cruise. applebee's and a movie, now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood.
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than 5300 new cases and 13 new deaths from covid-19 reported since yesterday. according to governor john bell edwards, this spike marks the third highest daily count since the start of the pandemic. willie. >> meanwhile, in ohio, the top medical officer warned anyone who has not received a covid-19 vaccine, as he put it, almost certainly will be infected with covid. ohio's chief medical officer warned residents, they essentially have a choice between the vaccine and the virus saying, quote, it is now a matter of time. it is when not if
presented at most leisure gatherings with more than 50 people. the pass shows if a person was vaccinated and tested negative. the french president is reconsidering new rules in the face of protests against restrictions. joining us, poland's former foreign minister and minister of defense. member of the european parliament, chair of delegation from the parliament that meets regularly with its counterparts in the u.s. house of representatives. it is very good to have you on the show. i guess my first question is are there differences in the challenges that europe is facing in terms of trying to beat back the covid virus and the delta variant and other variations versus the u.s., are you seeing any differences in approach and reaction to the approach? >> the proportions of
vaccinations and i think with casualties are quite similar. we also have the challenge of some people not wanting to vaccinate. they should remember that the anti-vax movement was boosted by russian trolling, active measure to set us against science and set us against our governments, to sew discord and confusion. >> so it seems to me, there's similarities in that the fight against covid is actually a fight against disinformation? >> partly, yes, because this has irrational tendencies in societies have been strongly supported by those who wish i will to our democracy, to our western way of life. in this case, i am afraid it has been very successful. >> you had the first meeting of the transatlantic legislators i
described in the lead in to you. tell us what you learned, what was the biggest source of discussion, and how covid, the fight against the pandemic is impacting the security around the world. >> we met speaker pelosi, meetings at the state department and national security council and exchanges with the co-chair and other congressmen and senators. yes, this is the most urgent issue and here i think we have been able to help each other. remember, the vaccines have been, pfizer, for example, an american company. but turkish immigrants in germany who invented this. remarkable success and the vaccines were invented so quickly. now we need to persuade both sides of the atlantic those who are skeptical. i think we now have a wealth of
data to persuade people vaccination works, that it saves lives, and this is a common challenge. we discussed issues like in order stream, challenges to -- heart attack 6th of january. our challenges in member states. china was very high on the agenda. we need to stick together, europe and the united states. we created the trade and technology council which will monitor investments, standards and regulations to do with our relationship with china. >> certainly china is a flashpoint in president biden's first overseas trip last month to europe for the g7 and so on. can you give us an update about status for the european economy, some member states. for instance, this morning in the u.s., applications for jobless aid rose, though the economy has shown some signs of
improvement, it is not all the way there. there are real pockets people are struggling. what is the economic fallout from the pandemic in europe in terms of is it predickably centered in certain nations? >> we don't know how debts we have taken on will play out. europe has passed what we hope will pass also here, which is to say a huge recovery and investment program, 2 trillion euros, and it will be spent very quickly on improving our health systems, on cyber and digital transformation and on energy transformation. for the first time, european union has taken out 750 billion euros of common debt and it is already reaching member states. >> i want to ask you, you said we have to stick together on a number of levels, especially
against disinformation. also these cyber attacks, what can the european union do to stick together against them pertaining to the sources, potentially china, most probably russia. what aggressively can be done to push back against these before they become what they already are which is modern warfare and do unspeak aj damage to democracies. >> they issued a statement that cyber attacks on nato, europe is not a military super power like you but we are a regular super power. we have the largest, richest common market on earth and we can regulate how people interact with that market, how people use the data of our citizens and we
need to do this because the internet, tech, all wonderful things but as we are discovering, they also have down sides. our citizens are demanding action and european parliament will be at the forefront of this. >> all right. member of the european parliament, thank you. say hello to ann. >> i will. >> appreciate you being on the show this morning. thank you. take care. willie? mika, chairman of joint chiefs of staff mark milley gave this assessment of the situation in afghanistan. as the united states pulls all troops from that country by the end of the summer. >> significant amount of territory has been seized over the course of six, eight, ten months by the taliban. momentum appears to be sort of with the taliban. there's possibility of complete taliban takeover or possibility of any number of other scenarios. i don't think the end game is
yet written. >> jonathan lemire, the momentum on the side of the taliban, complete takeover of the country is possible. this was all predicted. people like general petraeus coming out against the move by president biden to withdraw troops. former president george w. bush as well. how is the white house going to manage this if that's the outcome and taliban overruns the country? >> there was every expectation the taliban was surge. but the speed and success of it caught u.s. military intelligence agents and white house off guard. they didn't think it would be this rapid. this has not as of now changed the white house plan. president biden is committed to and has been for a long time pulling out troops there, honoring the agreement made by president trump as he puts it, but also a belief he had long before he took office on january 20th. feels like the mission was accomplished there, didn't use those words, but they're not there to build a nation state, they were there to root out
terrorists. president biden a few weeks ago predicted that afghanistan would be held by a combination of governments, one government wouldn't hold it. now if you were going to suggest one government would, that government would be the taliban, one organization. that's obviously a great worry. for now, the president doesn't want to commit new forces there. >> open question, what america's role is if the taliban overruns the country, then what, if it becomes a harbor for terrorism. before we go, john, different topic, this weekend starting today begins a four game series, red sox and yankees. you were telling me you've fallen in love with this group of young kids in the bronx. you love the walkoff in the 10th inning by a kid named ryan lemire. you're worried, you hear the footsteps of this lovable bunch. >> fact check, none of it is true except where the yankees, $400 million payroll have been playing better, despite losing players to covid. yankees won a couple series in a row. it will be an important series.
a moment you seize control. >> oh, my lord. that does it for us. stephanie ruhle picks up coverage right now. hi there, i am stephanie ruhle. it is thursday, july 22nd. we have so much to get to this morning. you better sit tight. starting with an alarming jump in covid cases. new infections tripled in the united states in the last two weeks. this thing is not behind us. the cdc says more than 97% of patients hospitalized and nearly 100% of those who die are unvaccinated as of this morning. 56% of americans have gotten at least one dose of the vaccine, 49% are fully vaccinated. at the same time, president biden is doubling down on dangers of misinformation and harmful role it is playing in vaccine