tv Deadline White House MSNBC July 23, 2021 1:00pm-3:00pm PDT
shouldn't something, you know, wacky be happening right now? we thought people could use a break. we've all been through a lot this year. -that makes sense. -yeah. so... ♪♪ now's not a good time 3/5ths of nsync. are you sure? you have us booked all day. -read the room, guys. -yeah. right? hi, everyone. it is 4:00 in the east. as the republican party falls short of protecting its own people, a new model showing that the current covid-19 surge in the u.s. will steadily accelerate through the summer and fall, peaking in mid-october with daily deaths more than triple what they are now. projections that hinge on what percentage of the population gets vaccinated and whether
vaccines can outpace the spread of the highly contagious delta variant. right now it is not looking good. more than half of u.s. states, mostly republican led, have a vaccination rate below the national average. the new surge beginning to imperil return-to-work plans. last night republican governor of alabama, kay ivy, said bluntly in an interview most of her colleagues will not say, that the blame for much of the continued suffering in her state rests squarely on the shoulders of those refuse to go get vac nated. >> what is it going to take to get people to get shots in arms? >> i don't know. you tell me. folks are supposed to have common sense. but it's time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks, not the regular folks. it's the unvaccinated folks that are letting us down. >> wow. one might think governor ivey's frustrations could represent a crack in the republican firewall
against covid protections. and even in washington there are signs republicans are beginning to acknowledge that their voters might be a part of the problem. yesterday house republican leaders gathered with a group of doctors for a press conference billed as a press conference to discuss the need for individuals to get vac nated, uncover the origins of the pandemic and keep schools and businesses open. sounds promising. here is how it played out according to "the new york times." house republican leaders used the event to attack democrats who said without proof dissembled about the virus. "the new york times" ads the appearance by the second and third ranking house republicans, representative steve scalise along with doctors said the spread had not prompted the party to change its town.
the doctor of the previous president even tried to suggest democrats were being misleading. >> asking questions of the democrats as well. how many of the democrats are willing to say whether or not they've been vaccinated? >> here is the thing, dr. jackson, it was reported as early as may that 100% of the democrats had been vaccinated. sean hannity, who was praised for issuing a full endorsement of vaccines and vaccine science, is pushing back against the suggestion that he urged his viewers to get vaccinated. last night on his program he stressed that he has always cheered on the scientists and their advances against covid but insisted, quote, i never told anyone to get a vaccine. i have been very clear. i am simply not qualified. the republican party and the ongoing threat to where we are today. dr. ashish jha and eugene robinson and former republican
congressman. dr. jha, you have said we're just starting the delta surge. what are you watching for? what can we expect? and how concerned are you about the surge among those who were unvaccinated and spilling over into those who are? >> yes, thanks for having me back here. i am concerned about where we are as a country. the surge is just getting going. we have quadrupled the number of daily infections the last few weeks. and we're nowhere near done. we're at about 40,000 new infections a day. we're going to, i think, get to 100,000 a day over the next month or so. and probably keep going. this largely affecting unvaccinated people. the truth is vaccinated and unvaccinated people mix, in grocery stores and restaurants. vaccinated people are getting breakthrough infections because of the high rates of unvaccinated. so it's a really complicated situation. vaccinated people still remain relatively safe from severe
illness. but until we get a lot more people with the shot in the arm, it's going to be a very tough ride for us. >> dr. jha, the vast majority of unvaccinated americans say they probably or definitely won't ever get vaccinated. is there anything, anything, experts and official cans do to break through to them? >> absolutely. i think there are some people still on the fence. i also think what is going to move most people, and by the way, we've done this with lots of other vaccines, mandates. i don't mean from the government. from businesses and schools. if more and more places did that and people had a choice, you could go to your job or you could get -- and be vaccinated or not. most people, i think, not vaccinated would jump off the fence and get vaccinated. the true core of anti-vaxers is quite small. we have to help others get over the hurdle. >> ten states have less than
half of their adult population fully vaccinated. nine of those ten have republican governors. 28 states, mostly republican, are below the national average of adults fully vaxed. in a press conference, supposedly aimed at promoting vaccinations surrounded by doctors further politicizing the issue by blaming covid origins. how do you reckon with that abdication of responsibility, that level of complete disregard for public health outcomes? >> alicia, you mentioned it. the sin was politicizing this. you can respect people's health care decisions. you can encourage people but once you politicize it and make people believe that in order to be real conservatives they shouldn't get vaccinated, that's when you're crossing the line. and republicans did that. they've done that to try to criticize president biden and even when he was running, they
tried to politicize this. and now you see a lot of them change course, come back, wait, wait, no. this is important. now you should do it. but it is too late for some people already. i think some republicans are trying to wake up to the reality it's their voters that are passing away, that are getting really sick. it's a shame that it took this situation to get people to stop politicizing this. that's the kind of politics we have to live with these days. >> eugene, you underscored this in what used to be the conservative movement in this country is becoming a death cult. the measure of its power is less in ballots cast than in how many died. >> it's not just in my view
immoral but it's completely incoherent. they're saying, well, you should be giving donald trump credit for the vaccine. okay. operation warp speed. he green lighted that and a whole lot of money, great. they're saying that we should be pointing the finger at china and let's look into that. absolutely. but none of that has to do with whether people protect themselves and what will happen, i fear, and dr. jha is the expert, of course, but it sounds like thousands and maybe tens of thousands of people are going to die who don't have to die and shouldn't have to die. it's readily available everywhere. it's incoherent. bravo to governor ivey.
>> dr. jha, this is why we circle back to the message and messenger. would we be looking at a different country right now if tucker carlson told the world he'd been vaccinated? what's the mixed messaging and the just asking questions about the credibility of science making all of this an unwinnable war? >> there's two parts to this. for one is that for a year a lot of people have been downplaying the virus saying it's nothing worse than the flu, sniffles and the cold. that sets up pretty tough context to encourage people to get vaccinated. who needs to get vaccinated against the cold? and then, now, they're raising questions and really making up nonsense about the vaccine. and so a year and a half of this campaign, it's going to be pretty tough to reverse. i think it will happen. i think people will see their loved ones getting sick and that will motivate people. i think mandates from businesses will motivate people.
we've built up this difficult barrier that we've done to ourselves, a subset of people have done that. and now we have to figure out how to climb that hill. >> and, eugene, that is why we're coming to this conversation about mandating vaccines and about a return to mandating masks. your colleague writes those who didn't see the virus as a threat wouldn't have been worried about masks or vaccines. this is also the problem with reintroducing rules promoting mask wearing. it is unlikely to be embraced by legislators with significant vaccine-hostile constituencies. americans who are indifferent to the risk posed by the virus would be unlikely to embrace such a reintroduction. those who would approve of mask rules probably have already been vaccinated. what more can the biden administration do and what more will they be willing to do politically? >> i'm not sure. first of all, as you know, the
federal government, the biden administration, cannot impose any sort of national mask mandate. that's in the providence of governors and local officials. they could urge such a thing. i don't know if that would be productive or counterproductive at this point. look, where i live, everybody is vaccinated and a lot of people still wear masks. i mean, in the grocery store and other places indoors because of this uncertainty. because there are so many unvaccinated people around and i think that's going to continue. i think a lot of people will continue mask wearing in some circumstances and, of course, you have to wear a mask on airplanes and trains and buses in a lot of places. and so this weird sort of hybrid system where some people are being extremely safe and other people not safe at all. >> i am just intrigued by the
politicalization of all of this, not just the vaccine but something as simple as mask wearing. tennessee's government is restarting nearly all vaccine outreach. how concerned are you, carlos, about another uptick in political clashes that could further divide these hard-hit states? >> well, look, that's exactly what's happening. and look at what happened in the capitol with this press conference. republicans came together ostensibly to encourage their supporters, really, because it's their half of the country that isn't getting vaccinated, and then they take a sharp turn and just start using the press conference to attack democrats. you asked a question earlier what else can the biden administration do? i think they are doing everything they can to encourage people to get vaccinated. it's up to republican leaders. and to be fair, mitch mcconnell has done his part, but many
others have to step up and tell their supporters, their voters, people who trust them, look, you need to do this if you want to protect yourself and everyone else from getting sick and potentially from dying. that's what needs to happen now and if it doesn't we're going to continue seeing more of the same and the country will be stuck not just for months but maybe for years. >> dr. jha, is vaccine mandates where we're headed? will that be necessary? >> colleges will try to open up campuses without vaccine mandates and we'll see large outbreaks, and business also have a hard time bringing workers back. they're going to look for solutions and there's one, mandate their workers be vaccinated. i think it's the reality on the ground that's going to push organizations and when that happens the experience is vaccine mandates work. most are fine to get vaccinated
if their employer asks them to do so. >> eugene, in this moment, can you disentangle a mandate of any sort, a vaccine mandate or a mask mandate, from what i think we've seen is the ideological knee-jerk reaction that any mandate of any kind is a violation of liberty? >> well, you should be able to if they are mandated by private companies, by universities. a court recently said, i think the university of indiana, was justified in imposing a vaccine mandate to returning students. if it comes from the government, that's a big problem for people. if it comes from institutions and companies, the companies that people work for. and i hope dr. jha is right. i hope dr. jha is right when he
says most people begin that sort of mandate from their employer will comply without a whole lot of trouble. >> dr. jha, one last thing, this video from the olympic opening ceremonies, for those of you listening, it is an empty arena. we have become accustomed to seeing these. a major reminder we are very much not back to normal. what's it going to take? how long will it take for us to see crowds in stands once again? >> 80% to 90% of the world vaccinated. that is doable. we have the technology. it's probably some time early to middle part of next year if we put all of our time, effort, energy into it. we have the capability, the science, the resources. we now need the political will and combat the misinformation that's holding us back. >> i appreciate your optimism. carlos curbelo, thank you for starting us off. eugene robinson, you are sticking around. the former president has spent time out of office raising money off the lie he continues to
spread. the grift goes on now with serious consequences for voters. that story is next. plus, biden's homeland security secretary saying trump has create add space for domestic terrorism with his rewriting of history around january 6th. more evidence of that being true as we hear firsthand from the defendants working their way through the courts, the very latest coming up. and one of the most consequence and controversial decisions for the supreme court could be a few short months away. the impact that could affect millions. all those stories and more when "deadline white house" continues after this. ng] [ringing] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ you bring your best. we'll block the threats. ♪ cyberprotection for every one.
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a whopping $75 million. how much former president trump's political action committee raised in the first half of the year. partly through fund-raising pitches like this one. facebook ads that read, we need you to join the fight to secure our elections. how much of that $75 million went to any of the ballot reviews and so-called audits? zero. reporting instead the save america leadership pac which has few limits on how it can spend its money has paid for some of the former president's travel, legal staff. trump continues to stoke the big lie so profitable for him and his pac with a speech tomorrow in arizona, home to the audit so central to keeping baseless election fraud conspiracies alive. the event is billed as a, quote, rally to protect our elections. joining our conversation jonathan lemire, white house reporter and an msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson is back with us.
eugene, i just want to you react to "the washington post" report. $75 million. that's an incredible sum of money much less an incredible sum to raise off a lie. it feels like the presidency may be over but the grift goes on. >> well, i'm not hearing shock in your voice. i'm not seeing it on your face or on john's face. the grift goes on. i was surprised that donald trump raised all that money and is using it himself, is using itselfishly. the most we've ever seen in our life. you might feel sorry for the people who are giving all this money thinking that it is going to fight this imaginary voter fraud when, in fact, it's going
to pay for trump's staff and his travel and whatever else. but they should know by now that that is what would inevitably happen and that's who he is. >> what i feel, eugene, is worry for our democracy and i know you share that concern. jonathan, i want to talk about the latest brennan center report. the big lie good for trump's bottom line. 18 states have passed 30 laws curbing ballot access, four curbing the use of drop boxes, two states cutting back on early voting hours. none of the states have produced any evidence of the election fraud that led to these voting restrictions. are they past even trying to justify why they're doing this? >> it sure seems that way. for a lot of these states these are measures the republicans wanted to put in place a long time ago, and what happened was
trump's big lie gave them a catalyst. they had an excuse to do so. those states and others are considering similar measures. and this is, for many democrats, the existential threat to our democracy and their ability to win elections. if their voters are the ones disenfranchised it will be hard to win in states where the margins are so close. that's why there's been mounting pressure on president biden to do more here. i was with him last week in philadelphia when he gave his voting rights speech, and it was a good speech, well delivered. one of the best he's delivered since office t. made no mention of the filibuster. none at all this week at the town hall, he said he supported a talking filibuster but there wasn't any specifics in terms of whether or not he would lobby democrats to do that, to make it harder, to make it harder for republicans to stop federal legislation that would protect voting rights which many believe is the only way to do so. instead the message from the
white house is they want to out organize, do voter turnout, make sure registrations can't be challenged, to rely on legal battles, rely on the department of justice. that's all well and good, many democrats and activists say, but not enough. there's no substitute for federal legislation and they need the president to step up. >> your sense of where that resistance is coming from on the part of the president? >> you know, i'm not sure. i'm not sure whether he's just deliberately trying to play it soft and plans to come in with more force and directness. i tend to suspect not because time is awasting as these measures get passed and we're going to be in the election year cycle. before you know it and then it becomes utterly impossible, probably. and so i think -- i don't like
to resign myself of a bad outcome, but i'm also resigned to the fact that democrats are going to be fighting uphill in the next election and maybe the next couple elections if they had a bigger majority in the senate, they could do something about the filibuster. but they can't now. >> it's especially interesting, jonathan, because at the same time that you have that astute analysis from eugene, you also have republicans actually trying to expand the field on which they're playing. so "the post" reporting support is growing in the texas gop for an audit of the election results, but only in big counties which mostly went for biden. i mean, didn't trump win texas? what is the point here? >> eugene's analysis is always astute, first and foremost. you're right, they're running up the score. the will of the people, the will of their constituents, to challenge votes, to challenge,
to restrict access to the ballot. trump won texas and fairly handily, but that could change. for a while now we've been hearing how the democratic shift in that state, the second largest in the country, could eventually favor democrats. certainly most analysts believe we're a couple cycles from that, but it could accelerate. if there is more influx of let's say people from california moving to texas. now democrats have to do a better job than they did last time around, but that still is something that is a deep concern. they know if they lose texas and california is already in the democratic column it will be very hard to ever be elected president again. that is what's fueling a lot of this in these states. some more obvious swing states like florida, georgia, et cetera, where they're trying to just hold on to power there and they have the state legislatures to do it. and right now they don't really see any consequences. there's no federal legislation on the horizon and nothing the democrats in these states can do except for leave and go to washington, d.c. that's a temporary solution not a permanent one. >> eugene, of course jonathan is right to underscore demographic
change in a place like texas especially because it's a big part of the story. the audit would be in larger counties. if you look at the demographics of those counties really gets at the dark racist aspects of the big lie, this idea there was mass voter fraud not just generally but specifically among voters of color. >> yeah, right, massive voter fraud where black and brown people vote and where white people vote. everything is fine. no problem. these sorts of voting restrictions, this is a new load of voter restrictions we're getting, likely to get. in the short term they can tick people off. in the short term they can help democrats drive turnout and so in that sense republicans should be careful what they wish for. in the long term that's what i worry about.
that initial sort of anger and resistance that you might get from democrats in the next election cycle or the next one after that eventually could fade and then you're left in a situation where democrats are more permanently disadvantaged. >> and to say nothing of the ways in which they are structurally restructuring elections. jonathan, i do want to ask you trump issued a statement attacking an arizona state senator who said he was embarrassed by the audit and endorsing his challenger. what is the message he's sending here? is he telling republicans you have to be all in on election fraud fantasies or you don't belong? >> trump put out something on bashing cleveland's new name. he is targeting republicans who are not fully devoted to him. we know how much loyalty matters to the former president. it's a one-way street often as he's been quick to cast aside those who disappoint him.
he has been not shy in attacking those, whether they're federal officials or in this case local ones who aren't doing that. the litmus test in the republican party is whether or not you go along with the big lie. that is what is fueling the gop as it heads to 2022 and tries to reclaim the majority in the house even if perhaps not the senate and 2024. whether or not trump runs or not this is suggesting that trump was robbed and the voter roles are to be dealt with with suspicion and they're trying to take the votes away. no evidence of widespread voter fraud. none. this is what they're doing. trump demands it and very few republicans are willing to defy him. >> i have to read from state senator boyer's response. had trump built the wall like he promised, perhaps he would have prevented the 40,000 bamboo ballots from being imported and if he hadn't started an insurrection, i could have responded directly to him. so there's that.
eugene and jonathan, we have been up together since 6:00 this morning. thank you both so much for making some time for us. now to a new development in the story we brought you earlier this week, a federal judge is allowing 2017 trump inaugural committee chairman tom barrack out on bail. the top trump ally was arrested on tuesday on charges of violating lobbying laws and lying to the fbi. prosecutors have accused barrack of acting as a foreign agent to influence foreign policy during the trump administration. all to benefit the united arab emirates providing officials with sensitive information. now he'll be released on a $250 million bond ahead after hearing on monday a. spokesperson for barrack said he had plead not guilty to the charges. up next, a stunning jailhouse interview with one january 6 defendant who says only one person was responsible for sending him to attack the capitol. an invitation directly from the president. t.
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the secretary of homeland security is connecting trump to domestic terrorism. blaming the former president and his attempts to rewrite the narrative of january 6th for creating a space for domestic terrorism. what secretary mayorkas calls the most significant threat to our homeland right now. here he was with vice news on trump's account that rioters were, quote, peaceful. >> words matter. the words of leaders matter a
lot. those are very injuous words. they create a space that should not be created. >> does he fan the flames of domestic extremism, the former president? >> there certainly is that potential for those words to fan the flames. >> case in point, a capitol defendant charged with assaulting police on january 6th pitched a revealing theory from his jailhouse, that it was police who assaulted the rioters because they had an invitation from the president. >> the president invited people to be there and then who told the police that it was okay to collect weapons and assault those people? like, that's preemptive assault. >> it's hard for people to look at that and think police are assaulting the crowd. >> well, i understand that but
that would be like me inviting you to my house. >> it wasn't his house, though. >> well, i understand that but he's the leader of the executive branch of the united states government. and that property that we were on was federal property. like where did the orders go wrong here? >> wow. let's bring in nbc's washington investigative reporter and clint watts, former consultant to the fbi counterterrorism division and msnbc national security analyst. scott, you've been following all of these capitol defendants. unpack that. they had an invitation from trump that gave them what they thought was a right to an insurrection? >> he doesn't think he commit add crime though he acknowledges he laid hands on police and he keeps saying it's because the president sent him there, sent the crowd there, they were following the president's
direction, according to our interview. something else is underscored in this interview. while we saw a series of case goes to plea agreement this week, even a sentencing this week, some closure. in other cases like landon copeland's, these cases are stuck in the mud. copeland is still in pretrial detention in utah. he hasn't had a chance to enter a guilty or not guilty plea. he was supposed to appear in court today but they cited a scheduling conflict and postponed it further. there are a lot of defendants in pretrial detention trying to get out, trying to get plea agreements. >> trump attacked a republican state senator who criticized arizona's audit. he said he spoke to a, quote, loving crowd at the january 6 rally. the secretary of homeland security knowing how big of a problem these rioters and trump are saying trump's words matter and might fan the flames of
domestic extremism. what can be done to stop the message? >> it's fascinating. we're seeing discussions about future mobilizations for the first time, and that's because former president trump is talking again. and when he starts talking, his supporters start walking to places he designates as places they need to go to. the arizona audit is of concern, talk for rallies for the first time in six to seven months. this shows what happens when the leader of the country and one political party just sort of undermine the idea there was an insurrection at all. this gives acceptance, gives a free pass to others to repeat those sorts of activities. i'm quite concerned the more the president is out and is vocal, the more people hear it. if he picks locations or talks about having rallies or people should go to a certain location, this came up during the election several times. philadelphia was one of those examples when they were doing
the vote recount there. d.c. twice before the insurrection. if the former president starts picking locations and the party continues to support this big lie, you will see people start showing up again. and usually these protests bring counterprotests and violence and incidents like the insurrection. >> if that terrifying reality were to come to pass, what then does the fbi do? >> i think the fbi is doing everything they can. the one sort of silver lining of the awful events of the insurrection it did give probable cause, a motive. it gives them lots of evidence and leads to go after many of these networks that would have been impossible to investigate before because they actually committed an overt act on january 6th. you can see the fbi spanning through networks now going beyond simple charges of assault or disorderly conduct to conspiracy charges and that's really where it has to get to to disrupt these networks overall. what i would note there are
other supporters that were not there on january 6th. remember, january 6th i would say people could make it to washington, d.c., in the middle of the week in january. that is not the norm for a lot of extremists around the country who are going to probably look to targets closer to home. i think as the fall starts to approach, as we have the delta variant spreading around, talking about mask mandates or closures, you're going to have massive complex in terms of the public interest where you will see people start to rally, and if the president continues to push that they were peaceful protesters, based on that behavior there, a lot more protesters show up committing a lot of violence. >> part of why we're also interested in what's happening, your sense of what the latest revelations are from the january 6 cases. how do they further prove the current threat of domestic terrorism and how obligated these people feel they need to do something else? >> every hour brings a new development seemingly including weekend hours.
flagging a couple cases in particular. thomas robertson, a former virginia police officer. he was on january 6th. he's since lost his job. he was released from custody with restrictions. no firearms. the feds say not only did they find firearms in his home after his release, they say they found an active set of components that could have been used to make an ied. he now faces the prospect of going back to jail. also micah j. jackson arrested in arizona appeared for arraignment today. the feds say they saw him amongst the proud boys. he, they say, tried to argue it was antifa and blm, that denialism continues to this day. >> clint, we talked at the top of the show about vaccine hesitancy and what the message is, who can be the messenger. when it comes to being honest about what happened on january 6th, why it happened, is there someone who can be the messenger that actually breaks through to
these people if they were to come to reality themselves? >> i think it mostly comes interest capitol hill. it's got to be republican congressmen that are honest with the american people about the damage done to our democracy on january 6th. mike pence, the former vice president, he alone should be a messenger out there saying, hey look, these people were trying to attack me. they interrupted the democratic process. they did not allow for the peaceful transfer of power. in many of these jurisdictions, arizona, michigan, were these notions of a recount constantly being pushed forward, we need to protect our democracy. in some places, for example, in michigan, there was a republican who came forward and said the election was not stolen. we did a recount and it was accurate. those messages do matter at a local level. we don't always talk about it at a national level. local messengers that look like and talk like and come from the local audience that is are in disbelief, they have an outsized impact when they say the election was fair.
we double counted it. these audits are ridiculous. we have to believe in our defensemen crass or go through the endless rounds of this over time. >> hopefully we'll see more coming forward. thank you both so much for spending some time with us. up next, one state officially calling on the supreme court to overturn roe v. wade. the conservative justices could make abortion legal nationwide fulfilling trump's promise to take away a woman's right to choose.
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the supreme court once again deciding the future of legal abortions in this country. lawyers for the state of mississippi asking the court to overturn roe v. wade. justices already agreeing to hear a case next term on whether a law from that state would ban abortions after 15 weeks is constitutional. the mississippi ag now wants the court to go all the way and overturn its landmark 1973 ruling. over half of americans believe that in most cases abortion should be legal. as the first big abortion rights case in the supreme court reshaped the former president's three justices unfolds the fight over the right to an abortion remains. joining us an attorney and also a writer and editor. katie what would a ruling in favor of mississippi do to abortion rights? >> it's helpful here to understand the context of the law of the land. in 1992 in planned parenthood v.
casey the supreme court upheld roe v. wade and said that a woman has the right to elect to have an abortion up until the point of viability of the fetus, meaning when the fetus can live outside the womb and a state cannot impinge on that right the woman has before the viability point of the fetus. i'm not a doctor, people much smarter say viability happens towards the end of the second trimester. the state doesn't get involved according to the law now. what mississippi did was put in place a near total ban on abortion after 15 weeks. the point of viability. so if mississippi were to win here it would be allowing states to impose regulations on what we understand currently to be the woman's right to elect to have an abortion before that point of viability so other states could be well within their rights to
impose similar laws or perhaps even stricter ones. >> just as you are not a doctor, i am not an attorney, so i want to you break down the legal argument they are making. it's my understanding their argument has evolved since it was first filed. how and why has it evolveevolve? >> they were saying, look, you don't need to overturn roe v. wade. we need a clarification of the precedent. there's confusion here. science has advanced. we have a different understanding of viability. many arguments made. then yesterday, now that they have four grants, four justices who have agreed to pick up the case, there are no holds barred. they're saying now is the time to overturn roe v. wade. it is to overturn the precedent to allow states, individual states, to make their own decisions about how they will restrict or allow women to have
access to abortion. >> katie, how do the new judges change the scope of this battle? >> they absolutely do. we know that all six conservative justices have been hostile to abortion in different ways, either in their personal lives or professionally as a judge or even working for republican hobbled to abortion in personal ways, either in personal lives or professionally as a judge or working for republican administrations in the past. now, justice amy coney barrett, of course we know she is personally against abortion. we don't know how she will rule but we can guess, and we can guess it will be hugely different than justice ruth bader ginsburg who she replaced on the bench. justice kavanaugh, equally important replacing justice kennedy. when kavanaugh was on the sivgt, ruled allow to a 17-year-old immigrant minor in u.s. custody, they allowed her to get an abortion in custody. justice kavanaugh wrote a fiery dissent in that case, saying
that the government created a new right for unlawful immigrant minors to obtain abortion on demand. also an indicator that he would not be friendly to those who are seeking to protect the rights to abortion, and this court you need five votes to win. the three liberal justices would need justice roberts and justice kavanaugh or justice barrett or one of the others. that seems unlikely at this point. >> katie, i do want to ask you about another story because it is all happening as democrats are blasting the fbi over their inquiry into kavanaugh's background. from nbc news, a group of democratic senators demanding more answers from the fbi after the agency revealed new details about the limited scope of its supplemental investigation into brett kavanaugh's background when he was a nominee for the supreme court. jill tyson of the fbi's congressional affairs office acknowledges the department conducted only ten additional interviews in its supplemental investigation even though it had received over 4,500 tips. tyson said relevant tips from phone calls and messages were forwarded to the white house counsel's office.
it is unclear what became of the tips after. katie, what happens now? >> look, this is one of the huge debates that is happening right now with president biden's commission on supreme court reform. the american people through the fbi investigation, through justice kavanaugh's confirmation, through all of the confirmations that we've seen in modern-day times, are looking for transparency, are looking for an understanding of the process, who these individuals are, what the government knows about them and what they're willing to reveal about themselves. and the supreme court is not the most transparent organization in our government, and, in fact, there are many ways we can improve transparency, and that's what biden's commission is looking on. whether they will actually attempt to make any moves to do that, we will see. it is questionable whether anyone can make them, right. they are the co-equal head of one of our three branches of government, so imposing transparency restrictions on them, especially once on the bench, is incredibly difficult legally and constitutionally, but more transparency will
hopefully be what is next. >> all right, katie barlow. thank you for joining us. a change after more than 100 years to a major league baseball club with a little help from tom hanks. that story is next. number one in reliability, 16 times in a row. most awarded for network quality, 27 times in a row. proving once again that nobody builds networks like verizon. that's why we're building 5g right, that's why there's only one best network. as i observe investors balance risk and reward, i see one element securing portfolios, time after time. gold. your strategic advantage. there's no other snack like a planters cashew. what else can go from your car's cup holder to a crystal bowl and seem equally at home? i guess the most well-rounded snack isn't round at all.
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in, and together we are all cleveland guardians. >> it is a new era for cleveland baseball. it was tom hanks announcing a new name for the major league club, the guardians. the nod to the guardians of traffic standing along the hope memorial bridge less than half a mile from progressive field. the change announced today is the end of result of a pressure campaign by those who insist the team's current name is racist. next year it will be the cleveland guardians, and hopefully bring them some luck. cleveland hasn't won a world series since 1948, the longest current title drought in major league baseball but change is on the way. thanks for watching. i hope you will join me this weekend for "american voices." the next hour of "deadline: white house" with michael steele sitting in starts right after this quick break. if you're 55 and up, t-mobile has plans built just for you.
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to deprive black and brown people of our right to vote as we move towards the 2022 election. it jeopardizes democracy for us all. it is a threat to that democracy, and we must rise up at this point and take extraordinary action. hi, everyone. it is 5:00 in the east. i'm michael steele in for nicolle wallace. buckle up. congressman hank johnson just a short time ago sounding the alarm on the attack on our nation's democracy from the growing number of measures that have limited access to the ballot box being enacted across the country. johnson was arrested yesterday after taking part in a rally and standing outside the senate hart building with protesters, demanding the senate take action to protect the right to vote. johnson tweeted a video of him and others chanting while their hands were bound with zip ties
writing, i was arrested today protesting on senate inaction on voting rights legislation in the spirit of my dear friend and mentor the late congressman john lewis, i was getting in good trouble. johnson was the second house democrat detained in just a week. last thursday congresswoman joyce beatty of ohio was also arrested but the u.s. capitol police for demonstrating for voting rights. these protests come as the assault on the right to vote in this country only mounts. according to new numbers from the brennan center for justice, 30 restrictive laws have been passed across 18 states since the beginning of the year, and there's new reporting on the efforts in texas to hold an arizona-style audit of its own despite officials there finding no evidence of widespread fraud, from "the washington post". support is growing among texas republicans for a push to audit the results of the 2020 election in a state that former president donald trump won handily, but the proposal introduced in the
house earlier this month would only reexamine votes in texas's largest counties, most of which went for president biden. the legislation, house bill 241, calls for an independent third party appointed by the state's top gop official to conduct a forensic audit of results in counties with more than 415,000 people. now, folks, of the 13 counties that meet that criteria, ten voted for biden last year. texas is already home to one of the major flashpoints in the fight for voting rights. democratic state lawmakers there fled their state earlier this month to block the passage of new restrictive voting bill and are now in washington lobbying for federal legislation. but in the nation's capital things are at a standstill with republicans unified in their opposition, any federal legislation remains impossible without reforming or removing the filibuster, which is what many democrats and voting rights advocates are calling for.
but they're disappointed in what they feel is a disparity between president biden's words and his actions. "the new york times" reporting, voting rights groups say that mr. biden is not expending sufficient political capital or using the full force of his bully pulpit to persuade congress. they point to the contrast between his soaring language, jim crow on steroids he has called the gop voting laws, and his opposition to abolishing the senate filibuster. ultimately the advocates fear that the biden administration, currently focused on a bipartisan infrastructure deal and an ambitious spending proposal, has largely accepted the republican restrictions as baked in and is now dedicating more of its effort to juicing democratic turnout. the debate over how to combat the continued assault on our democracy is where we start this hour. joining us now, the reverend al sharpton, host of msnbc's "politics nation" and president of the national action network. also with us, tarasett mayor,
former republican strategist, former senior advisor to the lincoln project and now a resident scholar at the university of virginia center for politics. and kneel cotell, an msnbc contributor. welcome, all. start with you, my friend. we heard the president call these new laws jim crow on steroids, and then on wednesday he defended the filibuster. i don't know about you, but how do you reconcile these two comments? >> you know that about two weeks ago we met with the president, leaders of eight national civil rights groups, and really wanted him to, one, use his bully pulpit to speak, which he did do the following tuesday and i was there. and we pushed on the filibuster. he said to us, one, that he was not there yet on the filibuster, and he did not know if we had
the votes to change the filibuster. so we then said, well, the challenge is what congressman clyburn has raised, is can we do a work around the filibuster. our objective is to make sure that we can get voting rights voted by the senate in a majority vote. they do that in other work-arounds. mitch mcconnell has done it in other work-arounds. let's do the work around. that's where we're trying to put pressure on now. we came out of the meeting at the white house saying that we're going to be, various groups including ours, that were going to be doing civil disobedience rallies, culminating in the march on washington on august 28 that martin luther king iii and andre king and i have called, and you will see it all summer long, pushing for the work around the filibuster if there's a required number of amount of votes that you need to stop the filibuster,
which there's a debate on whether you need 60 votes to even change it. but the filibuster has a history of being used for anti-civil rights, anti-voting rights techniques. it is a jim crow method. it should be abolished either way, but we should do the workaround to save us from the fact that right now states are changing laws. we cannot wait and we cannot in any way act as though as time is moving on we are not being disenfranchised in states every day. >> tara, i want to pick up on the rev's point about the civil rights organizations out there that are engaged, working with the reverend, national action network and others, 150 of them by the way wrote a letter to the president urging him to push harder for the two federal voting rights bills to pass. they write in part, while we fully support the ideal of bipartisan cooperation on voting rights, the partisan political agenda of some in the senate
cannot be allowed to block legislation that has broad bipartisan backing and we certainly cannot allow an arcane senate procedural rule to derail efforts that a majority of americans support. we urge you to work closely with congress to support the passage of these bills by whatever means necessary. i love that last part, "by whatever means necessary." talk to us always bit about the gridlock in the senate and what democrats should be doing right now to sort of break that strangle hold that republicans seemingly have, and how things would go if the shoe were on the other foot and republicans are trying to get significant, important legislation to them passed through the senate. >> well, michael, i think we all know that they would -- republicans are masters at using the rules of the senate to their advantage. so i think it is clear that they would do everything it took to get what they want. that's what they did when they changed the rules and used the nuclear option to get judges passed.
but i think that there is something to be said about being cautious about just blowing the filibuster up, because when you are not in power anymore and you are in the minority, the filibuster is a useful tool. i know the history of the filibuster, and it has -- it has been used in ways that have been untoward in the past, but we have to be -- we have to think more than just what is in front of us now. because what happens when republicans take congress back over, take the senate back over and democrats, there's something that they want and you don't have -- or they want to stop and they don't have the filibuster there as a tool. i think what is being discussed right now is a compromise where the filibuster is not something that's statutory. it is a rule in the senate that can be changed and there's a compromise being discussed now where you can make a carve-out. i believe congressman clyburn has discussed this as well. it is something that the house is talking to the senate about, but there's a carve-out where you can use it for -- you can withdraw the filibuster rules for issues that are specific to constitutional rights.
now, i think that there is a room for compromise there in the discussion that way instead of completely blowing up the filibuster, because i think it would come back to haunt democrats if they did that and lost power in the future. >> neil, talk to us a little bit about the need for federal legislation in light of the supreme court decision we saw earlier this month on arizona's voting laws. how do you see that weighing in on what tara raises and reverend al on the impact of the filibuster on the behavior of senators? >> there's no question federal legislation is necessary. let me say it is so exciting to see you in the chair, my friend. >> thanks. >> but, look, i think that this conversation we're having with tara, i think biden and the attorney general need to be stepping it up every day. this is not like other issues. it is not like infrastructure even. there's no constitution for infrastructure. there's no bill of rights about infrastructure, but voting is
central to who we are as americans. and giving a speech last tuesday, even a great speech, is not nearly enough. i understand the impulse, which is to reach across the aisle, you know, not blow up the filibuster, you know, and so on. but when one party is unilaterally making it harder to vote, both sides are not equally invested in a democracy, and that's one value we should be holding up much higher than bipartisanship. it just seems like how can we expect americans to put their faith in the federal government when it won't even protect their right to vote. the way to do so, as you say, is federal legislation, and that was struck down by the supreme court in 2013, with the predecessor case in the supreme court that saved it in 2009 and that was about the voting rights act reauthorized in 2006. the reauthorization vote was 421-3 in the house and 98-0 in the senate.
that was just in 2006. now we can't even get a dozen republicans to come up and stand in favor of voting rights. there's something fundamentally wrong that's happened to that party. >> reverend, neil makes a number of important points, and i want to read a little bit more to you from "the new york times" reporting. quote, in private calls with voting rights groups and civil rights leaders, white house officials and close allies of the president have expressed confidence that it is possible to out-organize voter suppression. according to multiple people familiar with the conversations. now, i have heard and emphasis on organizing said the president, director-counsel of the naacp legal defense and educational fund who visited the oval office to meet with the president two weeks ago. but, she added, we cannot litigate our way out of this and we cannot organize our way out of this. now, i know you met with the president as well and you have had these conversations both in person and through various
chance. what is your reaction to the out organizing option in this scenario? >> well, first of all, the first reaction i have -- and i said this to others both in the white house and among my colleagues in civil rights leadership, we wouldn't have to out organize. we have the right to vote, and, therefore, we are arguing about whether or not americans' rights are being undermined, and the senate should have a workaround this whole question of the filibuster and affirm our rights. i was in the courtroom during oral arguments in 2013 with shelby versus holder when they began eroding the impact of the voting rights act. and then the decision of just three weeks ago by the supreme court that really in many ways carved out section two of the voting rights act. they're making the voting rights act, which has been voted on and
renewed several times since '65 with republican support, now that the republicans have become the cult of trump rather than another of the national parties, they can't get any republicans to stand up and deal with the fact that we're dealing with the right to vote. that's like telling us, well, go out and out-organize segregation or go out and out-organize other abuses to blacks that are being done by whites that are racist. we should be protected by the law, not told to out-organize those that are breaking or bending or eradicating the laws that protect us. >> i think the reverend has put a very fine point on that issue, if you did miss it, folks. neil, a huge and alarming part of these new laws that we're seeing being passed is the
nullification aspect of them. you know, the putting in place of mechanisms that would enable partisan officials to overturn results they don't like. you know, in reality it is pretty tough to out-organize if the results could be overturned, right? >> 100%. these laws are scary, michael. they literally say that the state legislature can undo an election and put in whomever they want. like that's what is going on with the bill in arizona right now. other places, they're just making it much harder to vote. all of these things are as silly, frankly, as checking under your kid's beds for monsters. i mean the monsters aren't there in the first place and you can't really convince them otherwise, but there's this bogey man of voter fraud and so on. and, you know, republicans are not even willing to fund election security. they just want to cry about the last election and pretend like there was some fraud when over 60-plus courts have said to the contrary. you know, it is a quixotic
attempt but it reflect they're afraid of democracy now. they don't have the votes so they want to suppress the vote. >> and that suppression of the vote is really what has moved members of congress to take extraordinary measures. so, for example, tara, after she was detained last week congresswoman betty pointed out the difference in how january 6th rioters were treated, and it is a striking comparison, and it gets us to the issue at the heart of these restrictive laws, how black and brown people will be disproportionately affected by them. how do you see that narrative when you have, you know, folks storming, you know, the congress, none of them arrested, none of them handcuffed, none of them put in zip ties, right? congresswoman, you know, is trying to just get some action on getting good, healthy legislation passed for voters, and there she goes in zip ties off to jail. >> right. i mean we all know that there is
definitely a difference in how both those crowds were treated. there's no question about that, which is infuriating. but, look, i think it is important that they continue to bring attention to this. there cannot be any -- they can't take it for granted that people just understand the importance of this issue. we have not seen an assault on voting rights like this since the civil rights era, and without question there needs to be consistent messaging on this. there needs to be continued efforts, not only to the rev's point, it shouldn't be about out-organizing, it can be a combination of both. there has to be organizing on the ground and grassroots efforts. we saw what stacey abrams was able to accomplish in georgia. ultimately, voting and elections are run at the state and local level. it has to be a wake-up call to folks in the state to make sure they are doing what they need to do at their state and local level to have elected officials
that are not going to suppress your vote, that are not going to vote for legislation that makes it more difficult to vote, and that you have people there that are doing what they're supposed to do to protect the vote. but at the same time there should be also national, national outcry, to neal's point, because what republicans are doing is absolutely despicable. unfortunately, michael, you and i know this all too well, it is not new. it is just out there in the open now. they are out there saying the quiet parts out loud. when you were rnc chairman you knew what some of the voter suppression efforts were going on out there, and you were trying really hard to make sure those sort of untoward things didn't happen and it was a challenge back then. but now because of donald trump and the mindset that we are in now, it seems to be okay. they're telling us what they're trying to do. republicans admitted in arizona they cannot win if everyone has legal access to vote. so everything needs to be done from both a state and local level, and then you know me, i'm a conservative, i get always weary when it gets to the federal level, but i think
there's a way you can do it with a compromise, like i said, versus just throwing out the filibuster, throwing out the baby with the bath water. but democrats need to continue to sound the alarm, and i think good, reasonable americans who feel strongly about the right to vote, it is one of our most fundamental aspects of our democracy, are on board with this and that needs to be an issue going into the mid-terms >> all right. we are going to leave it there for now. my maim neal katyal, thank you for starting us off. reverend al sharpton and tara setmayer are sticking around. when we return nancy pelosi is energizing representatives by taking it to them ahead of the new select committee. we will get the that. a new push to hold americans responsible as cases of coronavirus spike around the country. to that point, a strict new vaccination policy in the national football league has some players up in arms. "deadline: white house" continues aer a quick break. so don't go anywhere.
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. >> act up, cause a problem. something as predictable, it is my responsibility as speaker of the house to make sure we get to the truth on this, and we will not let their antics stand in the way of that. >> speaker pelosi yesterday drawing a line in the sand, refusing to give into republican attempts to derail the january 6th investigation by allowing trump allies like jim jordan to have a seat on the select committee. "the washington post" reporting on how pelosi united her party
around rejecting mccarthy's appointments, giving congress a shot at a serious investigation that would get to the bottom of the january 6th attack. pelosi's move won strong backing from house democrats, many who remain disturbed and angry about the violent incursion of trump supporters into the capitol. the upheaval of congressional norms, several said on thursday, was outweighed by the risk of giving republicans an official platform to distort, minimize and deflect a focused inquiry into the causes of the riot. we are back with the reverend al sharpton and tara setmayer. tara, "politico" is reporting on how taking on trump is a central mission of pelosi's, quote, the volatile former president and pelosi foe is long gone from the white house, but still haunts capitol hill. and as much as some in her party might want to move on from trump, the speaker has made over seeing an investigation of the deadliest attack on the capitol
in two centuries into a core mission this year, putting her squarely in the path of the former president who democrats said played a central role in the insurrection. the truth is there is no moving on from january 6th, now, is there? >> no, and i have to say that nancy pelosi is a boss. i spent a lot of years battling nancy pelosi and democrats on the other side of the aisle, and i have to give her credit where credit is due. she is stepping up as speaker of the house, using every resource available to her to make sure that the insurrection is investigated and taken seriously. what happened on january 6th is a national tragedy, and the republicans trying to white wash it and gaslight the american people into thinking it was tourists, a regular tourist day or as trump said there was a lot of love there, we all know that is a bunch of bs and they should be ashamed of themselves. all of the republicans that used to march around with, you know,
pocket constitutions, with this bravado about how they're patriots standing up for the rule of law and the constitution, where are they now? they're nowhere to be found. they have abdicated their oath of office in order to bend their knee and pledge fealt yrkts to donald trump and to disrupt and distract from what happened to that day and from serious people trying to get to the bottom of it. i applaud nancy pelosi putting her foot down and saying no to disrupters like jim jordan and saying it is going to be serious. i applaud the democrats and nancy pelosi for taking it seriously because the american people deserve it. >> reverend, i just want to touch on you about this for a moment. given the ties between the gop and january 6th, is the gop worried about what the committee may uncover? are they concerned about what is there, their behavior, the phone calls, all of those things? how does that play in the mix of
what will start next week? >> it undermines the real credibility that they have in even being involved in this process. let's not forget that it was congressman mccarthy, the minority leader, that according to all reports confirmed that called donald trump in the middle of the insurrection and told him what was going on, they were under threat, and it was reported trump said something about antifa and mccarthy said, no, these are your people. mccarthy will likely, if the proceedings are as thorough as they appear to be headed, to be called as a witness, to talk about what happened in real-time during the insurrection. for mccarthy to be deciding who is goes to be judge the evidence when he himself is part of the evidence, he should recuse himself. and certainly those that don't want to have to testify in any
way, shape or form, should not be sitting on the panel. clearly those that have been accomplices to the distortion of one of those that are the people they have to investigate, donald trump. donald trump said, we are going to go to washington and we're going to have these kinds of times, inferring exactly what happened. he's the one that called them to go ahead, we're going to march and go to the capitol and let them know how we feel about this vote. well, just imagine if any of us in civil rights, if i had said we're going to march to the capitol and five people ended up dead, you would be given a prison pass to have this. and the difference between trump and i is i show up at my marches. he didn't show up. he watched it on television and then stopped it when it started to get violent. >> rev, bringing the heat. >> he's absolutely right. >> he is, absolutely.
>> you know he's right. >> wait a minute. i know he's right. absolutely i know he's right. that'schuckling because that speaks louder than anything. i want to play for you what one of the members said right here on msnbc, pete aguilar, when he was asked about potential witnesses. >> we will set a series of discussions after that where we will talk about the events that led up to january 6th, how it was financed, how it was carried out, what their intentions were. we will start to peel the onion to get to the truth. and so if individuals, as chairman bennie thompson has mentioned, if people have information that is pertinent and helpful to us, to our investigation and discussion into this, then we would hope that they would share those stories. but we're only concerned about the causes, the effect, ensuring that this doesn't happen again and what led up to the events of january 6th. so to the extent people have information and knowledge, we
would hope that they would voluntarily come forward and share their stories. >> tara, to that point you know when you start to peel an onion, what happens? you start crying, right? it is safe to say mccarthy and republicans aren't going to come forward voluntarily and it could wind up being very frustrating for democrats. what say you? >> well, that's true because there are a handful of republicans there that are basically the proverbial unindicted co-conspirators. the reports there were some members of congress that had given tours beforehand or they were tweeting out locations and encouraging them. we already know what congressmen those are. mo brooks said, go out there and let's kick some ass. they were inciting this and they were a part of the stop the -- in bed with the stop-the-steal organizers. this is something that the leadership leaders in the republican party, they don't want to face that, that you could have members that were part of an active insurrection. no, they don't want to see what
happens when you peel the layers back because in their hearts kevin mccarthy knows good and well that this was wrong. he knows that trump was behind it. he knows that there are members of congress that were problematic in their, you know, participation in this. but they don't want that because it looks bad for them politically so they are sacrificing what is best for our democracy, standing up for our country in order for political expediency, and it is despicable. i, frankly, don't want to hear kevin mccarthy or any of the other republicans whining about how mistreated they are, how victims they are. tell it to the families of the 140 police officers that were injured that day. tell it to the faces of the police officers who defended them that day to hold our capitol. these members of congress are actually disrespecting their service. so i'm glad to see that the police officers will be the first to testify on tuesday because that sets the tone. the video is undeniable. their testimony will be undeniable, and those republicans will have to face that.
i would like to see them try to tell those officers that it was an average tourist day. >> the reverend al sharpton and tara setmayer bringing the heat. we appreciate you both. thank you for spending some time with us. when we return, with the delta variant driving a steep rise in covid cases, there's a shift in messaging towards those who remain unvaccinated. that's next. most reliable network by rootmetrics. and our customers rated us #1 for network quality in america according to j.d. power. number one in reliability, 16 times in a row. most awarded for network quality, 27 times in a row. proving once again that nobody builds networks like verizon. that's why we're building 5g right, that's why there's only one best network.
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if you don't get the overwhelming proportion of the population vaccinated, you will have the continual circulation and replication of the virus in the community. there are enough unvaccinated people that this could go on for a considerable period of time. there will be hospitalizations. there will be deaths. and every death and every hospitalization, particularly every death, is a tragic, avoidable phenomenon. >> dr. fauci telling it like it is on fox news. his warning come amid waning vaccinations and a startling new model that shows us the potential of the highly contagious delta variant. according to the projections from researchers working with the cdc, infections will steadily increase throughout the summer and fall and peak in mid-october when daily deaths will be more than triple what they are today. meanwhile, local leaders and
business owners across the country are putting all of the blame on the unvaccinated, including in touristy provincetown, massachusetts, where a new mask advisory is now in place after an outbreak of covid cases among vaccinated residents. officials there blame the spread on unvaccinated out-of-towners who enjoyed relaxed masking and social distancing rules over the 4th of july weekend. let's bring in nbc correspondent antonia hilta live in provincetown, massachusetts. antonia, give us a sense of what people are talking about in the community. are they -- you know, what are they saying about the unvaccinated people around them, many from out of town? you know, have they felt an impact to their progress in the safety of their community? >> reporter: absolutely. i have been having conversations like that all day today. there's a lot of confusion and
frustration right now. you know, there are 256 one firmed cases here, and of that 70% of them have been breakthrough cases. so people who were fully vaccinated. and as people sort of process that information here, they are feeling a bit frustrated because officials have explained to the community here that they believe this comes from large numbers of unvaccinated people, nonresidents, coming here, partying here, not wearing masks through that holiday weekend. actually, they just confirmed to our team that all of the samples they tested coming out of that are of the delta variant. so they know that this infectious variant is here in the community, and, you know, to put the concern here in perspective, massachusetts is one of the most vaccinated states in this nation and then the cape cod area is the most vaccinated part of massachusetts. so people here feel like they did their part, they listened to their doctors and scientists, they went out and they got vaccinated. almost everyone in this community. now as they've tried to open their businesses and welcome people here with open arms, they
are worried that their health is going to be put at risk. thankfully, these cases have been mild or asymptomatic, but people feel they need to reassess how businesses are going forward. listen to a man who runs a boutique hotel down the road from me and has a zero tolerance policy. everyone who comes on his property has to be vaccinated. >> it is absolutely infuriating when we hear the number of cases here in town and you trace it back to people who are not vaccinated, yet put themselves in a crowded situation maskless. i could never do that. my philosophy is if you are not vaccinated, don't come here. please. >> reporter: ken actually told me that several of his employees are some of the breakthrough cases, and in some cases he has sequestered them in his own hotel rooms, which has meant he has also lost revenue. so for the community here, for
business owners who have been waiting through this really challenging year to make money and finally host people, they feel like this isn't just about health and safety. it is about the health of their businesses, and they are asking people who want to come to p-town this summer to please get vaccinated before you get here. michael. >> antonia hylton in provincetown, massachusetts. thank you very much for your reporting. joining us now, dr. anne ramone, epidemiologist, professor of epidemiology at ucla fielding school of public health and director of the center for global and immigrant health. and philip bump, "washington post" national correspondent. so, dr. ramone, according to npr, quote, the model offers four scenarios as far as projections, varying based on what percent of the population gets vaccinated and how quickly the delta variant spreads. each scenario also includes a range of how bad things could get. the very worst end of the range for the most likely scenario
shows about 240,000 people getting inspected and 4,000 people dying each day at the october peak, which would be almost as bad as last winter. help us, please, put these new predictions into perspective for us. daily deaths in this country are already at 237, and the cdc reported more than 1,500 in just the last week. speak to the importance of vaccines and how it could improve where we are in october. >> well, thank you for having me. here is the thing. where we are right now is a very different please than we were a year ago. we can't talk about this coronavirus the way we talked about it a year ago. it is like when you are playing a video game and you get to the next level and all of a sudden you are dealing with an opponent that is much more difficult to play against, all of the terms have changed here. so this variant, the delta variant, is 200 times more contagious than the original variant. so when you come in contact with
this variant, it is much more dangerous. that's true for everyone. we have so much virus circulating, and also when you are infected with this virus you have to remember 1,000 times more viral copies that are being shed than from the original variant. it is just tough for everybody. so when you have a lot of unvaccinated people around, you have a lot more virus circulating. so as a result, everybody becomes at risk. the vaccines are great at preventing hospitalization, death, severe disease, but they don't necessarily protect you against just becoming infected with that virus. what we don't know is how well a vaccinated person who is infected can spread to other people. it is certainly possible, and that's what we're beginning to see. so it all hinges on how many people can we get vaccinated. how much of this virus can we just tamp down? that's what we're going to see this models continue to change. if we don't have enough people vaccinated, this virus is going to burn through us quickly. we will be in a lot of trouble. >> philip, to dr. rimoin's
point, take a listen to what alabama's republican governor kay ivy said yesterday. >> reporter: what is it going to take to get people to get shots in arms? >> i don't know. you tell me. folks supposed to have common sense. but it is time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks, not the regular folks. it is the unvaccinated folks that are letting us down. >> phil, speak to the change in the messaging that we're hearing now from elected officials on getting vaccinated, including even a republican governor blaming the unvaccinated as the problem. >> right. well, she's obviously right. i mean i think that one of the things to keep in mind about that provincetown story, for example, is that the number of infections you saw among vaccinated people would have been way higher had they not been vaccinated. even when you have the vaccinations, that's an important bulwark, but her point is correct, that this is going on -- it has been called a pandemic of the unvaccinated because they are most at risk. but a lot of republican
officials have found themselves in this difficult spot because they have spent months saying, oh, mask mandates are bad, oh, these social distancing restrictions are bad, i'm not going to impose those. you have sarah huckabee sanders who was running to be governor of arkansas, which is one of the hardest hit states right now, saying on cable news she wasn't going to impose any of those things. if you are not going to do that, you have to have a high level of vaccination or else the virus will burn through your state. a lot of the governors and officials made the bet, hey, the vaccinations are pushing the numbers down, this pandemic is waning, i can come out strong against mask mandates and social distancing mandates and now they found it is being pushed back up. then you have republican governor ron desantis saying, you have to get vaccinated because either you get sick and potentially people die or he has to say you have to start wearing masks again, and he doesn't want either of those to happen.
>> phil, you say there was a lesson to be learned from how the mask advisory. there are those who are most concerned about the virus were most eager to get vaccinated. and those individuals were more likely to be democrats than republicans. this is also the problem with reintroducing rules promoting mask wearing. for president biden, the best hope is that the new increase in cases stalls and the number of deaths it prompts is lessened by the vaccine's themselves. everything beyond that introduces a series of largely difficult choices. do you think it is worth a shot to try mandating masks at this point? >> well, i mean, look, i'm very glad not to be in the position of leadership on this and having to say these things, right. i know from my personal standpoint, my wife and i are both vaccinated and we're both very conscientious because we have two little kids that can't be vaccinated, how and where we expose ourselves to the risk. this is the point.
you have two groups of people in the country. you have people worried about the pandemic, took the measures seriously from the outset and got vaccinated as soon as possible. you have people who aren't worried about the virus, never have been, didn't take a lot of the precautions and aren't particularly worried about getting vaccinated. those tend to overlap with partisan politics to a large extent, but the problem is even now you are not going to get the people who weren't worried about the virus ever and who didn't take the precautions ever and who haven't been vaccinated, what now is going to convince them after 16 months that this is the moment in which they need to start taking it seriously? that's the question to which we don't have an answer. >> exactly. philip bump, thank you for your being with us this evening. dr. anne rimoin is staying with us. when we return, not everyone is on board with the national football league's strict new policy on vaccinations. that's ahead.
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from the league's office, others predictably are not. deandre hopskin tweeted and deleted "what appeared to be a threat to retired." joining us now is kevin blackstone, the university of maryland. and sports commentary for "the washington post," dr. ramon is back with us. kevin, what deandre hopskin don't understand is freedom exist --
>> freedom of the press comes with a tremendous number of responsibilities and i have to uphold those responsibilities. the real cruelty of what deandre hopkins may not understand is relief upwards of 16 or 1700 players, they don't need him. and, the majority of players in the league right now have gotten at least one vaccine dose. so, most of the league believes that vaccines are the way to go. the interesting thing about this is of course the nfl can't mandate this. that would have to be negotiated in the selective bargaining
agreement but they walk right up to that line. they put the owners and everyone involved in the league and other players and owners as well. everybody has to pay a financial price if they don't get in line. >> doctor, here is what the nfl is working right now. according to batista at nfl.com, there is progress of vaccines of 78% of players in the league, league wide have at least one vaccine and 14 teams have at least 85% of players vaccinated. a quarter of the league remains unvaccinated. this is a move that targets the unvaccinated. we are going to broaden this out a little bit and beyond sports, are we going to see any increase in numbers of efforts to put pressure to bring about pressure
campaigns elsewhere in american life with the same desired effect, putting pressure on the vaccinated to force those communities to get over that hump. >> well, this goes along with the whole idea that an infection anywhere ends up eventually to be an infection everywhere. we need high rates of vaccinations. vaccine mandates are going to be a way to do this. the nfl able to walk up to that line but it requires a lot more if you get to that point. it is going to require these kinds of bold moves to get everybody vaccinated. you go back to this whole idea, there is no "i" in team but there could be a lot of infections amongst teammates. the risk of infection and exposing other people and creating breakthrough cases and people who even done what they needed to do is very high. we have seen this province town which we just discussed and we have seen it everywhere.
this is going to be a trend. i am supportive of where we can to make sure we do everything we can to get people vaccinated. it is really the only way forward. >> so before we go, kevin, we have to asked you about today's big news out of cleveland, their baseball team dropped the indians nickname and branding. they're now the guardian. what's your reaction to that? >> it is a long time coming. i have been working with the indians for a number of years now. obviously native americans being first and for most. this is something suzanne harjov has been fighting as a writer and a scholar. you see these names starting to finally disappear.
they were never honorific and they did horrible damage to neighbor youths. and, this is just the latest one to go. there are several others where i think will soon feel the pleasure and change their names as well. >> change can be a good thing. you hear that, congress? kevin blackistone and doctor, thank you for spending some time with us. thank you for spending the hour with us today. nicole will be back on monday. "the beat" with ari melber starts after a quick break so don't go anywhere. ts after a qu don't go anywhere. gold. your strategic advantage.
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welcome to "the beat," i am ari melber. covid is surging. it is worse for areas not getting vaccinated much leading the governor of alabama to say this. >> almost 100 of new hospitalizations are with unvaccinated folks. >> what is it going to take to get people to get shots in arms? >> i don't know, you tell me. folks are supposed to have common sense. it is time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks and not the regular folks. the unvaccinated folks with letting us down.
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