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tv   Deadline White House  MSNBC  August 11, 2021 1:00pm-3:00pm PDT

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-te gold medalist, it comes with the territory. >> hi to everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. the republican party will go to any and all lengths to sustain its assault on our democracy. let's start in texas, where the state house's sergeant at arms is serving civil arrest warrants to the offices of democrats who fled the capital to stop the gop from passing voter suppression bills into law there. "new york times" writes it this way. quote, the move by the texas house sitting in austin came hours after the all-republican texas supreme court, acting on a
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petition by governor greg abbott and house speaker dave falan overturned an earlier ruling. that ruling had determined that the two officials, both republicans, did not have the authority to order the arrest of their fellow lawmakers. ted cruz, texas democrats and all democrats across the country say they so desperately need. senate majority leader chuck schumer promising action next month but without any movement on the filibuster, there is essentially no path for federal voting rights legislation. >> let me be clear. republicans refusing to support anything on voting rights is not an excuse for democrats to do nothing. voting rights, voting rights will be the first matter of legislative business when the senate returns to session in september. our democracy demands no less.
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>> in a tweet texas democrats summed up the situation like this. in the dead of the night, ted cruz blocked critical federal voting rights legislation in the senate. this morning, texas republicans are hunting down our legislators for fighting for the freedom to vote. the assault on our democracy has never been more dangerous than it is right now. the republican war on voting rights is where we start this hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. political strategist and founder of country over party matt dowd is back and co-author of politico play book and msnbc contributor eugene davis is here and political analyst cleric mccaskill starts us off. i don't want to get wrapped around will they or won't they blow up the filibuster but will they or won't they protect the right to vote in what is now 22 states that have passed not just voter suppression laws but laws to really change who counts the
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votes and who decides if the will of the people in a certain state gets to count? >> well, i honestly don't see them getting to 60. the question is, will there be enough pressure brought to bare to reform the filibuster at least to the extent that we can recognize this is a matter of civil rights? this is not, in all due respect to us actually having infrastructure. this isn't about building a bridge. this isn't about deciding what military base gets funding. this is the heart of the matter. this is what makes our democracy work. i will say this, nicole. and i think it's really important that we point this out. almost every time we talk about this. what this also shows not only is the filibuster holding up, protecting our democracy, but we've got to really worry about state legislative races.
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the republicans have been very good about putting money and resources and planning into taking over state legislators in massive numbers. the democrats have been more focused on national elections. it's time for the democrats in this country to begin looking at their state representative. looking at their state senator and finding out, are they with me or are they trying to fight me being able to get a chance to even have my voice heard? >> matt dowd, it's a perfect point. we have an example today, this week, in wisconsin, that state's voter restriction laws were only able to be blocked from becoming law because the democratic governor refused to sign them into law. what part of this is to be processed and require extraordinary action for an extraordinary and malevolent legislative push predicated on a
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lie, so say the republicans involved in it, the lieutenant governor who is a republican, and what part of this is the longer term strategy that claire is talking about of democrats taking on state legislative races and state houses? >> well, what we've learned, what i've learned actually, to my shock over the last few years and especially over the last ten months, is their strategy is to make sure that the country as a whole doesn't have a voice. right? that is basically their strategy. they want a tyranny of the minority. that is fundamentally what they don't want. we can go through all the sociological reasons. they want to hold power and all of that. fundamentally they don't want the voices of all of america to be heard in these rooms. if our democracy loses -- our democracy is failing today. our democracy is fundamentally failing today when the vast majority of the country wants certain things done and it's not
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happening. and this ranges from not only voting rights to, you know, health insurance, to gun reform, to anything that you could name to preserving roe versus wade. all of those things are not happening. that's what a supermajority of the country wants. it's time we say we need to -- instead of saying we need to protect what we have, actually, we need to change what we have. because what we have is broken. our democracy is fundamentally broken. and one of the only paths to fixing our democracy is the voting rights legislation. voting rights, not passing voting rights legislation doesn't mean we're going to lose our democracy. we're already on the path, in my view, of that. it's fundamentally broken. people make the argument democracy is working because we passed an infrastructure bill. it's very easy to pass a giveaway bill that doesn't pay for itself for five, six or $700 billions. where the rubber meets the road
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is the stuff that people have to make the hard decisions on. people did not have to make any hard decision on giving away free money and building bridges and roads. that's not the test of a democracy. test of a democracy is voting rights and we're failing that test today. >> i want to follow up with you, matthew dowd. one of the failures of the last five years has been a constant frame in the media among folks like myself of symmetry. the right does this, the left does this. what the texas democrats have illustrated is that there is no place for symmetry in an ailing democracy. i won't go as far as you are, but it is, indeed, ailing. the wake-up call for democrats or the question for democrats is do you want to fight a losing war with your old tool kit, which seems to be the answer. let's not dance around this. claire's conversations, i'm sure, bear this out. there's no appetite to dealing with the filibuster.
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beto o'rourke's tweet, encouraged to see all senate democrats voting this morning to move forward on democracy legislation. not surprised to see mcconnell and gop stop it for now. the old tool box will not work in the new fight against democracy. >> i hope they're further along than they were 10 months ago, 3 months ago, 30 days ago. i think they finally have to come to the conclusion that holding another subcommittee on whatever they're doing in washington is not what actually americans want and not what we need right now. we are in a fragile, fragile point in our democracy. exceedingly fragile point in our democracy. at its best it's dysfunctional. we're not getting done the big things we need to get done. climate change is facing us, bearing down on us, and we're doing nothing on climate change and everything related to that. i hope they're moving but i still think there are too many democrats who think if we could
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just go back to the old way of doing things, everything will be fine. what i fundamentally say is right now our politics is like a bad relationship where you don't trust the person and the other person across the table of you doesn't share the same values and may even be an abuser. and you can't be in a relationship with that person that's healthy. and that's where we are today with the democrats versus republicans. i wish we had two major parties today that we could fundamentally believe in and share fundamental values. we don't. until democrats admit that people across the aisle from them do not share the same fundamental values and believe in the same constitution they do, they have to discard all the old ways of doing this and go about this in a brand new way. >> the purging of andrew cuomo from democratic party, being a person in good standing, is the sign of a healthy and functioning political party.
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the democratic party abandoned him totally and completely with clarity, when women came forward and the state attorney general produced that report last week. from the top of the democratic party all the way down through state and local officials. he was not acceptable as a public servant, leader of one of the biggest states. the other side is that the republican party purged liz cheney. most recent purging. they purged her because she refused to lie. she refused to repeat a lie that incited a deadly insurrection. the ex-president continues to stir the pot of conspiracies and deadly lies about the violent insurrection against our country that threatened the life of his own vice president. that is the state of the two parties. how many democrats realize that, i interviewed senator padilla yesterday. he said i have a new pitch. are democrats coalesced under one idea, one vehicle, or are they still at the drawing board?
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>> i think they are still at the drawing board on a lot of things. one thing about the democratic party that's always been true is they have considered themselves a victim party. when you look at the facts, that party has always been a bigger tent than the republican party. you have more people of color, different people with different abilities. you have different socioeconomic status, lgbtq people. so they're all trying to get their bills and information passed through congress. sometimes it makes it harder when things come up to get everyone on the same page. we've seen that time and time again. because that practice is -- that has continued, that is where we are now. democrats, when it comes to exactly like matt was saying, fighting for democracy, getting a new tool kit, you have newer people coming into congress now who are ready to flip the table and say this table does not work
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for us. we are facing something different. but folk like joe manchin, for example, who has been there for longer seemingly saying i still believe this can be fixed. whether that's true or not we're going to find out. what that means is voting right s, for example, there's no -- i think we should -- everyone said this and we should be clear. there is no voting rights legislation if the filibuster is there. i skrust don't see it happening. if i'm wrong, i'll be wrong and i'm sure someone will tweet at me and tell me later. but at this point, there's no way. either they're going to keep the filibuster or have voting rights legislation. that is where the democratic party is right now. what that means is that when you talk to voting rights advocates, when you talk to civil rights leaders, they say you have to do something different. the texas democrats who were here, who are here and now under threat of being arrested, i talk ed to a couple today. one of them said his chief of staff called him with the sergeant of arms, had knocked on their door to come arrest him,
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and he's here in d.c. they say this house and members of congress have got to do something different and have to do it fast because they feel like they're running out of time. infrastructure has taken up a lot of the time. it's going to continue that. by the time we get to the begin ing of next year, everyone is going to be focused on 2022. >> but 2022, claire, will be rigged. look at the law in georgia. they are already changing the way georgians' votes will be counted and who gets to count them. i don't want to get stuck in the intractable part of this conversation about the filibuster. i wonder if something else that the texas democrats said, that they don't need the whole package. they don't need to deal with dark money right now. they don't need to deal with everything. they need an inch. they need something. let me show you some of the arguments they've made to democrats largely in the senate over the last month. >> we are sad for democracy in the state of texas.
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and we took a solemn oath to protect the constitution of the united states. >> we are out of time in the state of texas. my constituents and their voting rights are being undermined as we speak. this is not a theatrical conversation. this is not an abstract conversation. it is very tangible, very visceral. if we don't do something now here in washington, then millions of texans will have their freedom to vote undermined. >> what we are experiencing now is we are experiencing a fight of our lives, to be able to cast a vote and have a say in a democracy. and we should have a right. it is the situation where enough is enough. we ought to be -- people ought to be tired of the extent of trying to pass laws. we are americans, like everybody else. >> claire, texas republicans have not lied about what this
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is. they're removing drop boxes from cities like houston where people tend to vote for more democratic politicians than republicans, texas law would ban all drive-through voting, all 24-hour voting, bans officials from sending mail ballot applications. not sending absentee ballots in the mail but applications. it allows for criminal penalties to be levied against anyone who helps a voter cast their ballot. that's why the disabled advocates have been at the white house. according to the texas tribune, this is not about preventing fraud, which didn't happen in texas. they spent tens of thousands of dollars looking for it, didn't find any. most of the fraud that came up was on the other side of the ideological spectrum. is there anything in what the texas democrats have sacrificed that changes the intractable debates in the senate?
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>> i think there may be some things that we can definitely get more than just the democrats to be for. keep in mind, lisa murkowski was an original co-sponsor of the legislation that's been swirling around capitol hill. nicole, for some of us in states like mine, i see that list and we never had the ability to do any of that in my state. we've never had drop boxes. we've never had 24-hour voting. we've never had absentee ballot applications sent out unless you formally request one. so, here is the thing i want to say to my friend, matthew. >> so do you -- >> i would love it. >> i don't know. i don't think so. i think i lost more about donald trump than i did whether or not there was a huge number of people who didn't get access to the ballot. we had a record turnout in democratic areas the year i
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lost. in march, record margins in democratic areas. to my friend, matthew dowd, let me say this. this is an evenly divided country, as much as we don't like it. now, i can argue that the middle of the country, whether you go from the center left to center right and everything in between, those are the supermajorities you're talking about. and i agree with you. there are supermajorities for gun control. there are supermajorities for many things that we need to be talking about. roe v. wade and certainly voters' rights. campaign finance reform. but we have a razor thin margin in washington, d.c. it's not a supermajority. it's a razo thin majority. they're not aoc, they're not people from bright red states. they're not ted cruz but people from states that could go either
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way. and it's never easy to pass anything in congress when you have majorities that are this thin. never in the history of our congress has it been easy to pass anything, anything, if it's this evenly divided. i want to make the point that the people who are going to decide whether or not we're in the majority going forward from this day are the people that we can't lose sight of. and the people that are most worried about losing their seats are not in blue places. they are in purple places, at best. that's why we have to go out and beat people like ron johnson, take that seat in pennsylvania and maybe even take out marco rubio but we won't do that by swinging for the fences when we don't have the votes because congress is so evenly divided. >> go ahead, matthew. >> i agree with claire on part of it. we are evenly divided as to what
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our representeded government currently exists. we are not evenly divided as a country as a whole. this goes to my fundamental problem. the bones of our democraciry broken. the bones of our democracy. i'm a realist like anybody but the fact that we've been a decade of gerrymandering, ensuring that the mantle of the country has not heard has ended up in a place where washington is incredibly evenly divided though the country as a whole is not evenly divided. the entirety of the country is not evenly divided. michigan has an overwhelmingly republican legislature. that's not because people didn't vote democratic. it's because they drew the seats in a way that allowed the republicans to win. same with wisconsin, same in texas. same in state after state after state. and so i agree with the texans who basically say we don't need everything. just give us a little something.
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it's a little bit like the person who is thirsty for water and hasn't had water for seven days and all they want is a gallon jug of water. they don't need indoor plumbing. they don't need their pool filled with water. they just want a gallon jug of water. that's all the texans want in this. fundamentally, until we deal with the bones of our democracy and bones of our country politically, we'll face this time and time again. because where the voters are and where the politicians are, are in two fundamentally different places. >> okay. so we've got to talk about something bigger than the filibuster then. we've got to talk about amending the constitution, because the only way -- there's no gerrymandering in the senate. the deal in the nt is states that have very low population have the same amount of representation as people with big populations. >> agreed. >> so if, in fact, you're talking about changing the bones of our democracy, let's make it clear the mountain we're about to climb is amending our constitution and we would have to remove what the founding
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fathers thought were best, which was two senators from every state. that will have to be done away with, to get to the kind of things that you want to do, regardless of the filibuster. >> well, i would just like -- we could have that discussion, which i'm totally open to having that discussion when six united states senators have the same population as 60 united states senators. >> i get it. >> i'm not saying let's bite off the constitution at this time. but there are things we have to fundamentally understand. and i hope the politicians in washington understand the brokenness of our democracy so they quit jerking around and all the stuff they do every single day and understand the threat to our democracy that exists today, like the texas democrats do, who basically are now under assault from the legislature to be arrested in this. and until we fundamentally come to that conclusion, we'll be having this conversation over and over and over again until we
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understand we're at a five-alarm fire in our country and our democracy is no longer fupgsal. >> let me bring eugene daniels back in. to claire's point, the kinds of members who would have the hardest time being re-elected if the 389 voter suppression and nullification laws -- the only one i've read about being blocked is the one in wisconsin. 22 have been signed to law. the kinds of democrats that won't come back in two years or four or six are the moderates. those are the states where these laws -- that's why the first laws passed in georgia, pushed in florida and pushed in the swing states first. is there an awareness of that? how cognizant are the democrats of that dynamic? >> i think they are, but the exact same people that the senator is talking about, they fundamentally leave those moderates that they shouldn't get rid of it. when you talk to them about you are a person who may lose out if
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that happens and what you hear back from them often times is that they feel it is getting rid of the filibuster will break the senate or something like that. that is where the frustration comes for people like these texas democrats who left and pulled that fire alarm that matt is talking about, left the state and doors are being knocked on in their offices of texas and chiefs of staffs are saying hey they want to come arrest you and bring you here. those kinds of things, that is what they're saying to members of congress. you don't get it. it's unclear how much they understand how big of a deal these things are. they say they're going to continue pushing voting rights leaders and these texas democrats because they say they're not getting it. they're saying they're not understanding how big a deal these things are at this point and that they're very concerned that they're going to run out of time to actually do something
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about it. >> they need a little teaching them how to do hard things. really, really blunt conversation. i'm grateful to all of you. we'll keep it going with texas representative. thank you for starting us off. claire is sticking around all hour long. after the break, we'll ask one of the texas lawmakers who faces arrest how far she's willing to go to protect the right to vote in her state and beyond. also ahead a group of republicans, many with national security backgrounds are sounding the alarm about the extremist threat inside the gop. later in the show, the biden administration gets ready to stand up for local officials, standing up for the health of students and their ability to go back to in-person learning safely. all those stories and more when "deadline white house" continues after a break. ine white house" s after a break. by giving every customer a new 5g phone. old customers. new customers new 5g phones when you trade in your old ones. upgrade your phone. upgrade your network.
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you're going to have to come get us. come and get us. we're going to use every tool we have to fight this. we're not going to let texans' voting rights be taken away just because you feel like it. being arrested, being put in jail, being anything, all these things that they've threatened us with is nothing. what really should matter to texans right now is what's happening under their nose, under governor greg abbott's watch. >> that was texas state representative gene wu reacting to arrest warrants being issued for him and 51 of his democratic colleagues after they broke quorum for the third time. speaker of the texas house
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signed warrants. lawmakers would not be jailed if arrested, they could be brought back into the state capital then giving republicans that quorum. the post is reporting just five more lawmakers are needed back in austin for the state to move ahead with its voting restriction legislation. joining our conversation, texas state representative jasmine crockett, who remains in d.c. claire mccaskill is still with us. how are you? do you fear arrest? >> we said we would stay here so long as the senate was working on voting rights. we saw our wonderful senator catch that shade if you would. we saw ted cruz decided what he wanted to do. of course he had to be the one.
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so that vote took place at 4:00 a.m. so at this point in time, i've done what i said i would do. at this point in time we are handing the baton off. i do feel confident we have given it our all. i'm going to my district, not to the floor. i'm going to stave off the issues we've been having because our governor fails to lead as it relates to covid-19. >> it's interesting they're going to come get you but didn't travel to cancun for him in the middle of another kiesz. >> right. >> we're going back. they only need five. will they have the quorum they need, the republicans, to pass their voter restriction? >> at this point in time, no.
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a writ of habeus copperus, which would prevent anyone from being able to arrest us. we should be able to move about freely by the time i head home. >> so long as we have our writs in place, we could be in austin and there wouldn't be anything they could do about it. honestly, we're not trying to be unreasonable. i know the republicans want to paint it as that. honestly what they need leadership on is covid-19, our failing grid. trying to make sure that our kid owes are safe. let's agree on that the teachers
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have that 13 check, getting back to the things that really matter to the majority of texans. >> your governor just called in reinforcements for the states overloading hospitals. what is the larger fight look like. >> you know, at this point in time, i don't see how they can get re-elected but for cheating, which is why voing rights is number one. permitless carry, telling everyone over the age of 21 you can carry a firearm with no training, no experience, no license. that's what they actually passed. and i have so many republicans tell me that was ridiculous. there is no way i am voting for these people. so, they are trying to get to redistricting, of course, because they want to make these districts that they're in a lot safer for them.
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make them face the music. i am working with as many organizations as i can that are on the ground to make sure we are getting more people registered to vote and honestly to make sure we can get them out and participate, not just get them registered. >> one more question for you, representative. then i want to bring my friend, claire, in. what commitments were made to you by chuck schumer or other senate democrats? >> they absolutely assured us we would have a vote on voting legislation before they recessed. it was more so a test vote. and i'm okay with that. it was more so to prove a point most likely, to those who truly believe it can be a bipartisan issue and they can bring people over.
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they put in this legislation what they thought republicans were okay with. and they couldn't even get to debate on it because of our wonderful senator, ted cruz. >> i know many of us are proud of you. there's my question. i know the kind of coverage. what kind of coverage has there been in texas? most importantly, isn't there a psychological impact when everyone hears over and over again that the republicans in texas don't want them to vote. what do you sense in terms of
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your ability to turn out votrs in a midterm election that typically would not just because they're angry that the republicans are trying to tell them they want to make sure their vote doesn't count? >> they so much for the question. you have always been one of my sheroes. i grew up in st. louis, missouri. >> oh. >> i absolutely appreciate your question. >> yes, i'm a st. louis girl. i'm used to crazy politics. there's a fight monlgs texans that hasn't been there for quite some time, right? for the most part you wake up and say we're a red state. people are really energized. i get dms all the time with people asking me, what can i do? we're ready to get out there.
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we're ready to work. i'm ready to get back on the ground and be helpful to those in my district rather than going to the floor and doing harm to those in my district. i feel confident i'm okay. i think that's one reason the republicans try their best to avoid me. they have been taunting my other colleagues on social media because they're twitter warriors. the reality is that they know they don't have to justify what they're doing. they have the numbers and they're going after some of my colleagues in flipped seat. if you're in a district that's 60% white, 40% people of color and you're getting 51% of the vote, just imagine what's going to happen if any portion of that 40% people of color is disenfranchised and that's what they're pushing for. so you won't have those seats. so i need you guys to stay in this fight and fight very hard.
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so many of them are in situations like that, such as anna maria ramos, who flipped a seat, one of our fiercest fighters. she's in it for the long haul. ultimately if she doesn't have her seat it's not about that. it's about the rights. and she focuses on that. the best way to ensure democracy prevails is by making sure that people have access. real quickly i'll add one other thing. texas recently was sued because texas never gets it right. in that particular lawsuit, it was about them violating federal law as relates to people being able to register online when they registered to vote online when they renew their licenses. texas wasn't offering that. and so that ruling came down maybe in august of last year. by september, texas had to set it up. so the only way that you can now register online to vote is if you do it when you're renewing your license. between september and now, they actually had over a million new people register to vote. and that was just from renewing
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their licenses. so, imagine what would happen if we made that available to everyone. and that's what's scary to them. >> state representative jasmine crockett, one of her sheroes, claire. one of the best conversations i've heard in a very long time. thank you. representative crockett, stay in touch. keep us posted as you head back to your home state. stay safe. >> absolutely. thank you. up next for us as the federal government warns about your violence to come thanks to extremists pushing those election fraud claims, the ex-president today is threatening the brave law enforcement officers who simply went to work and did their job on january 6th. we'll explain. on januaryth 6 we'll explain. with less moderate-to-severe eczema why hide your skin if you can help heal your skin from within. with dupixent adults saw long-lasting, clearer skin and significantly less itch. don't use if you're allergic to dupixent. serious allergic reactions can occur including anaphylaxis, which is severe.
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warning local police departments about potential political violence due to the false election fraud on social media. after noticing an uptick for folks calling for violence. trump today feeding into that very danger, very conspiracy. sympathizing once again with the insurrectionists about the death of capitol rioter ashley babbitt and threatening capitol police officer s saying, quote, we know who killed her. nbc news found his previous
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suggestion were false. during joining our conversation is miles tailor. i want to start with you and claire on the ex-president's statement. i have been grappling how to cover it without amplifying it. the ex-president met with ashley babbitt's mother. the insurrectionists were domestic terrorists. >> i agree unequivocally, in fact. just today i was talking to someone who -- i'm not going to dime out on television but a very prominent, former u.s. commander who said there are elements of the gop that are starting to look like the jihadists that he used to fight in afghanistan and iraq,
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spreading lies and conspiracy theories to radicalize a population. this was a very series four-star commander. that's the environment we're in. no question this was an attack of domestic terrorism and i worry similarlily about the continuing radicalization of the elect orate. if you go back and look in time, and i say this as a counterterrorism guy. terrorism movements don't start immediately with violence. they usually start with a political greerchs that leaders say cannot be solved through peaceful means. then they move to violence. after trump started to propulgate the big lie, a lot of us said what he's doing is actually tilling the fertile soil for extremists to pop up later on. in fact, we saw it as a ticking time bomb for an increase in
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domestic terrorism and over the next two years i think you're going to see that. you'll see the spike in cases and you'll see that because radicalized elements of the republican party now represent a bigger threat to our democracy and organizations like al qaeda or isis ever did. not necessarily human lives, but biggest threat to our democracy because these are political institutions that are attacking our democracy, trying to rewrite the rules and irrevocably breaking their bonds as americans, all from the inside. it's something our enemies could never have even dreamed of. >> can you fathom an example of a politician of another party meeting with the mother of a domestic terrorist and the other party really just sort of shrugging it off? where are we? our politics that the ex-president, inciting violent
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extremism, meets with the mother of, by your definition and by detective hodges, the mother of a terrorist and everyone shrugs it off? >> you were there in the bush years. could you imagine that president bush had met with either the widow or mother of a jihadist that had killed american troops or was trying to kill american troops? it would have been an absolute political scandal of epic proportions. that's what it would have been. and we've become so numb to donald trump's crass, inappropriate, outlandish behavior that it's almost not getting covered in some corners. i'm glad you're raising it, because it is the equivalent of going to meet with someone who was trying to attack our democracy ourselves. the mother of someone who was trying to attack democracy itself. politicizing this issue. as you hinted at the topnd, what this does is it leads to
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radicalization of more people who could potentially pose a threat because it legitimizes that sort of civil disorder and conduct. >> claire mccaskill, you sat on the homeland security, i remember. do you think inside our agencies there's paralysis because of our ex-president's role in associations with domestic terrorists? >> there's no question that during the trump years when i was a ranking member on the committee, we kept trying to push the then chairman, none other than ron johnson, to do more. >> can't make it up. >> yeah. to do more work around domestic terrorism. we saw it. we've had serious domestic terrorism in this country for a long time. hate crimes and if you look at all the anti-semitic groups out there on the dark web, trading ideas about how to bring down
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people who are innocent and the only mistake they've made is not being for donald trump for president. think about this, nicole. i remember the moment that president trump got the question about the proud boys in the debate and a chill went down my spine when he said tell them to stand back and stand by. then what he did was proceeded to tell them as soon as that election was over, okay, don't stand by anymore. you go out and do your thing. he knows they're violent. he knows they have terribly prejudice views about their fellow americans. so, what he did today is as bad as anything he has done. because now what he's saying is -- he's kind of threatening law enforcement for trying to -- >> and mike pence. >> and mike pence. >> nicole, i don't want to break
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the flow here, but there's a unique side-by-side happening on the screen right now. ranking member mccaskill is someone who -- she's a democrat, i'm a republican. i so admired what she was trying to do on domestic terrorism and within the trump administration was trying to put in place the programs to go after domestic terrorist and guess who thwarted senator mccaskill and trump's own staff? trump himself. he didn't want anything done on domestic terrorism because he saw these people as his political constituency. he saw domestic terrorists as voters and that crass behavior. >> just to close a lid, let me sneak in a break and we'll show everyone the new ad from your group. the circle is complete. he incited violence. he then met with the mother of a domestic terrorist today. so it sort of explains why all
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your efforts were thwarted and yours as well, claire. we'll come back with a new ad focused on all these issues, extremeism in the gop. focused on all these issues, extremeism in the gop. if you're 55 and up, t- mobile has plans built just for you. switch today and get 2 lines of unlimited and 2 free smartphones. plus you'll now get netflix on us. all this for up to 50% off vs. verizon. it's all included. 2 lines of unlimited for only $70 bucks. and this rate is fixed. you'll pay exactly $70 bucks total. this month and every month.
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ray loves vacations. but his diabetes never seemed to take one. everything felt like a 'no.' everything. but then ray went from no to know. with freestyle libre 14 day, now he knows his glucose levels when he needs to... and...when he wants to. so ray...can be ray. take the mystery out of your glucose levels, and lower your a1c. now you know. try it for free. visit . we all know the type, the cheaters, the ones who can't stand fair competition. when they lose, they pit a raw screen lie and say they won. when all else fails, they make up new rules so that the next time they can't lose. that's what extremist republicans are doing, acting
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like babies and sore losers. but democracy isn't a game. elections should be free, fair and played by the rules. so republicans, it's tame to grow up and stop playing games with our vote. >> that's the new ad from your group you founded i believe, the renew america movement. it seems to be the squadcy version of the man-up republicans message. tell me who it is aimed to and where it is running. >> look, let me start off by saying this, nicole. this is the right time for this kind of message, because we have been talking a lot about delta variant this week. i think there is a pandemic almost as bad sweeping this country. you talked about it earlier this afternoon. that's the anti-democracy pandemic sweeping the country. almost half the states in america have passed laws to make it harder to vote. so this summer when a group of
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150-plus prominent republicans came together. i'm not talking low-level votes, governors, senators, congressmen, former cabinet secretaries, they said one thing. the gop better clean up its act or we are going to come after them. that's what this ad is. it's the first shot across the bow. we are running it in swing states across the country. microtargeting digitally those places we want to hit and going after the areas where you got gop extremists trying to read, write, rules of democracy this their favor. you have to ask yourself, the answer is obvious, nicole, you put it out there better than anyone, is their guy lost. they are sore losers and we've all sat in a game of scrabble with someone before who lost and flipped the board or tried to save proper nouns were a part of the rules. that's a lie. it's also, by the way, not what americans want, in fact, polls show that americans would rather have every vote counted in an election rather than have their candidate win. they would rather have all the
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votes counted than their candidate win. that tells me that americans want elections played by the rules and played by fair rules. we will go after republicans that don't agree with us. >> there is a goal too make it tenable for the filibuster to be obliterated so the voting rights legislation can be passed? >> well, in the immediate, what we would like to do is get it passed on its own merits without having to change the rulsz. in some ways, i do think there is, there are some problems to change the senate rules to get the bills passed to make sure the state doesn't change the rules. there will be contradictions in there. more extreme measures might have to be taken, this is so central to our democracy and senate rules are not nearly as important as the rules of our democracy. that's something that needs to be taken very seriously by the people who are on the fence about that vote. >> miles taylor, claire
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mccaskill. it's a pleasure and a privilege spending time with you. next, we start after a short break. don't go anywhere. we're just getting started.
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. and one of the things that i find a little disingenuous, when i suggest that people in zones where there is a high risk, where the mass like you all are doing, i am told the government should get out of the way and not do that. they don't have the authority to do that. and i find it interesting that
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some of the very people are saying that who hold government positions are people who are threatening that if a school teacher asked a state of the union in the they have been vaccinated or if a principle says that everyone in my school should wear a mask before the school board votes for it, that governor will nullify that. >> hi again, everyone, it's 5:00 in new york. president biden calling out the governors if places like florida and texas where responses to their state's surges and hospitalizations are coming in the form of bans against mandates of the public health measures that would help stop the spread of the virus. in the case of governor desantis, retaliation for those going say begins him and his bans. the "washington post" reports this, quote, the biden administration is examining
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whether it can direct unused stimulus funds to support educators in florida who may defy the governor's order of mask mandates in school. the announcement on tuesday was a sharp response to republican governor ron desantis, who has threatened to hold the salaries of superintendents and school board members banning class mandates. one of those whose salary could be withheld is carley simon. she received a letter on monday from the state's education commissioner noting his great concern over her county's response to the state's rules, as to which she responded with a letter of her own. it read, quote, the failure to use all of the mitigations strategies available, including masks, will inevitably mean that some of our students will have to receive their education outside of the school setting. we share the governor's view that that is not the desired outcome. the death or serious illness of a child as a result of covid-19 expoure the a far more serious
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injury than any discomfort from serial masking. unlike you, we provide education to all students universal making is the current design we have. desantis refusing to undo the mandate ban he ordered, saying it's up to the parents and a polling shows masks are what families want. 63% of parents with school-age children support masks required in school for people who are unvaccinated. all this comes as we learn the federal government is helping out florida even more they sent hundreds of ventilators to the state to help it respond to a record number of hospitalizations there. yesterday, nearly 15,000 people were hospital easied in florida with covid-19, which is 145% more than the state's previous peak in july of last year. a state governor defiant in the face of facts and science as covid rages in his state.
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we start this hour with some of our favorite reporters around friends. a superintendent of the public schools in north central florida is here. dr. carley simon. thank you so much for being here. the founding director of boston university another center fov for emerging infectious diseases and msnbc medical contributor and a senior columnist for the boston globe and msnbc contributor. let me start with you, dr. simon. i want to read some more from your op-ed that first tell us the current state of play. >> staff and students is much higher than what we were hoping for and so we're coming up with emergency plans that are going to have us focus on virtual meetings, staying pretty much far away from other people or
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meeting outside that are socializings. this is very congress they just and it's impacting, we've decided that we're going to have to move quicker than we had anticipated. >> so the -- we've done this before and this debate that you are embroil in there is sa movie where the guy has amnesia and every day reads his own tattoos. this is the third school year impacted. we learned that the cdc and others recommended things and i wonder if we can talk through all of them and tell me this they're available to you. are you allowed to require testing for your whole student body and faculty? >> we aren't requiring testing to all of our students. in fact, we do have testing the for individuals who need to be
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tested. they are not allowed back into the classroom. we are encouraging staff to do the same. make sure we understand this, at this point we are not currently doing any form of like screening testing. >> are you allowed to require that all of the adults are vaccinated, the teachers and staff? >> at this point we are not requiring it. we are incentivizing. so we are paying the $100 incentive for anyone vaccinated and anyone who gets vaccinated. >> are you keeping your students in pods? are they moving from class to class? >> we are transferring classes. we are talking to students about reducing the interactions and spacings within their classrooms as well. but we do have passing of classes at this point. >> they changed it from three
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feet. are you able to keep your students 3 feet apart indoors? >> i would like to say, with the size of our school buildings and classrooms were built. they just weren't designed to have social distancing in the classroom. then one of the things we also are running into is just the amount of teachers we have available. so even if we had the spacing in the building, i do not believe we would have the amount of adults who are teachers who would be able to help in our work force at this point. >> so i asked you those four questions. the only thing left on the list is max. those are the only tools available to you and your teachers and your students and your students under 12? and anyone that wasn't vaccinetated in your community. i wonder again, what you can do to do it anyway or to go it alone with the masks? >> so that's where we are right now. we are -- we're making it where max are mandatory. we need it to be this way, because we are finding i mean
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just in my office, people who i interact with today i've had my second covid positive person in my interactions and i have as much smaller population in the district building than like, for example, a teacher would or a principle that has quite a few individual on their campus. so we are -- we need the masks in order to attempt to be able to make this through so we can have our schools opened. i will tell you, honestly, i am concerned if beer going to be successful with this. >> do parents of your students and i know there is not a monolithic groups and parents are emotional after 18 months of them, the i know i am, are they more offended by a mask mandate or remote school? i feel you are saying it's one or the other? >> so i think you know everybody is still in that component where they need to work.
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and so, you know, when your children are at home even if you are able to work at home, that is the challenge him so i think most families, including me, would want to have our children at school. remote learning if we have to go that way. we have to go that way. but at this point we're really trying to focus on not having to utilize that aspect. because we know our students are more successful face-to-face and honestly, we know socially our children appreciate having their friends around and so we're trying our best to create that environment where we can have the face-to-face learning in a safe environment. >> dr. bedellia, just looking deat the science, is it possible with zero of the five measures, no masks, no vaccine mandates, no distance, no pausing, no testing? >> no and it's incredibly harmful to our kids. i mean look at the steps that
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they could have been taking in those states even before you go into the four walls of the school or the classroom. you could have introduced mask mandates for everyone so their community transmission goes down. we could have encouraged and had greater uptick of vaccination in the number of states could have gone down. we didn't do anything to make those classrooms safer before the kids get there. now as there is an outbreak. there is a soeltal impact in those states. you are seeing hospitals overwhelmed and the impact from that perspective from elective surgeries that are blocked. but then if parents can't go to work, the societal impact of the fact that kids have to stay home and parents can't work. the economic impact of that it folds up. it's the health of our children but because children can both get sick but they can transmany it to others, it's the health of others and our communities that's at stake. >> do i have this wrong? i spent a lot of time looking at
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schools that did this successfully last year. there wasn't a single example of the school that didn't deploy all five of these things to stay opened? >> what is, where is the breakdown if it isn't just all politics? >> in my mind, it's a huge part of it is politics. let's put this aside. i used an example recently, the cdc says the delta variant is about as transmissible, maybe less than chicken pox. if that's true, i mean, if you had these maximum amounts of disease and other highly communicable disease in our classrooms, would we be these reluctant to stake these steps? the science shows if you can do that testing and make that testing available. if you can do that spacing and ventilation, those masking and require the vaccines, you could create that face-to-face. we don't as you said have a third academic year that's acted by this, so our children are not basically facing the one insult
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from one another because we haven't learned the lessons. >> i don't want to have conversations that feel like they are in another universe. of all those mitigation strategies, is there anything easier than the mask mandate for you and your school and your students? >> no i mean, one of the things that we do try to focus on in the limitations that we have for our facilities are having our students outside. you know, we live in florida and it is extremely hot outside, especially in the month of august and so eastern something that you know if you were in december, this would be a very different discussion. but when we're talking about august, we just -- it's so much. so right now, where we are, the masks are, what i believe, the best that we can do to try to have face-to-face learning. >> so, kim, just to drill down on the politics here. i want to introduce this from max booth who writes in the washington post. i believe it makes sense to get
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vaccinated, senator marco rubio tweeted, everyone must make their own choice. sounds nice, we don't let everyone to drive without a seatbelt many other health matters, why should covid-19 and this plague in the century be any different? you know, republicans have perverted and destroyed the idea of freedom. freedom means the right for dr. simon to bring all of her students and teachers back safely. freedom means the ability for kids to go back to the classroom without worrying or transmitting covid. freedom means getting vaccinated so this is all over. it does not mean destroying all those things for everybody else. >> that's absolutely right, nicole. and the argument for freedom that some republicans are making is belied by so many things. nicole, a year ago, the lallying cry was open the schools, open the schools. well, you have educators and administrators and folks, healthcare officials working very hard just like dr. simon to
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figure out a way to open the schools so that kids can go to school so that parents can go to work. they've figured it out and now the goal past r post has been moved around says you can't do it with masks. which is just striking. i mean, of course, mask mandates are something that is completely within the realm of school officials to impose the same way. five years ago, you said there would be an argument over vaccines for those available in a school when all of us had to be vaccinated in order to go to school right up 32 law school for me. i had to be vaccinated. so this whole idea that it is an infridgement of frooemd freedom is wrong. it ha a has become a political sized weapon used by republicans in the tragedy just as max rose absolutely right, it doesn't at just the fact that the children and families that are opposing this. it affects everyone, everybody who has to go to a school.
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these kids can't be vaccinated yet. they have immunocompromised folks at home, older folks not being able to visit family members. it's really, really tragic. the outcome that could be happening at a time that this variant is just getting worse. we're so close to being able to do all of the things that we want to do maskless but we keep having these setbacks that affect the entire country. >> dr. simon, what do you mean? i know "the washington post" has that report and the white house would like to help school boards and superintendents that run afoul of governor desantis' ban on mask mandates. would that help? what do you need? >> so we obviously need support on many levels. we need to be able to do our job. we need to be able to try to get through the school year and make sure we're educating kids without running up against the governor who is upset with how
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we are choosing to go out doing this. we need families to understand that the mask is a protective device. just like when our children are playing baseball, you know, our batters when they're up at bat, they have to put a helmet on their head. we're not arguing ab those things. no one wants their child to get hit in the head and injured. yet i see we are having this mask component and we're arguing over this. it's the same type of thing. this is a protective safety device that we need our children to have. we need our adults to have. and as a community, i need people that are able to be vaccinated to become vaccinated. because that is how we are going to get back to as close to the normal we used to have in the past where we didn't have to worry about these things. >> when you make your arguments to your school population, how are they received? >> the majority of the families
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and the students absolutely understand, appreciate, many are thankful. there are individuals who do not agree in anyway with what we are trying to do. there is a small amount of people who are very concerned with our decision and how it interacts with the governor's decision and they don't want to budge. i have a parent that doesn't use the options and their child hasn't attended school yet because they aren't willing to select one of the options. >> in california, they can have teachers and school employees. you know, this wave of the coronavirus pandemic, if you look at a map is largely a way of hitting the most unvaccinated
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states, which tend to be in the south right now hitting louisiana, florida and texas. if we end up with vaccinated schools, could we end up with schools opened? it sound like what dr. simon is saying, if there is an outbreak, she could end up back if school. could we end up with education bifurcation too? and the schools that require masking and distancing can stay opened for in-penn learning? >> i think it's completely possible. i think not just schools but larger communities. you are already seeing that. as a healthcare worker, this breaks my heart. it's the 18th month of this pandemic 57d my fellow healthcare workers in those states are having to deal with finding icu bed and this time around for some pediatric patients, which we hadn't seen in the past. so, yes, it's sending both the kid behind but the entire communities behind. the other elements is within those heavily affected states, the schools that are going to be
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more greatly affected are public schools. there are going to be schools that maybe don't have the same amount of resources as potentially private schools who may have more money, more resources to do the ventlation, increased aspects. it's not just between states, within states. my worry is you will see an increased division as more communities that are low resource may see a bicker impact. >> it's an unbelievable state of affairs. dr. simon, come back, even when the school year starts, let us know what is going on. dr. bedellia, thank you to both of you. after the brake for us, the swing state governor who is finally drawing a line in the sand when it comes to the republican war on the right to vote. calling the state of wisconsin a petri dish for republicans to undermine democracy. plus brand-new reporting of donald trump's scheme to
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overturn the loss of the election. he lost bigly, an ousted u.s. attorney who testified for the senate today. a stark warning, u.s. officials say the collapse of afghanistan could be a matter of weeks away. we will be continuing. after a quick break, don't go anywhere.
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. in ways wisconsin has been at the forefront of the national republican efforts to override the will of the people. and now, politicians in states across the country are using their power to overturn the
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election we had just this last november. they're trying to stack the deck so they can get the results they want this time. they're trying to make it harder for every eligible person to cast their ballot. wisconsin has long been a laboratory of democracy. in recent years, we have been put, we are used as a petri dish for republican plans to undermine that democracy. well not anymore, not today. not as long as i am governor of the gait state of wisconsin. >> you don't see that every day. that was wisconsin governor using his defined veto power as governor to block the six restrictive voting bills passed by his g? gop laws, it is one of the only states to have a
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democrat in control of the state house. the republican party in wisconsin does not have enough votes to override his veto. evers also said officials from montgomery county and dane countyings should ignore subpoenas from the gop-led committee to turn over ballots and voting machines as a part of the 2020 election results. when asked whether the clerks should comply with the subpoenas, evers said this, quote, hell, no, you've seen what's going on in arizona, it's a throne show. joining our conversation, manbc contributor at times has to use salty language. kimberly atkins is still her. charlie, it's your state. take it away. >> two points, first of all donald trump has a 37% approval rating in wisconsin, ron johnson is at 35%. you see what the republicans are doing. what really strikes me is the pettiness and the mean spiritedness of these voting laws. they don't do anything
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whatsoever to deal with fraud. they make it harder for certain people to vote. particularly the elderly, the disabled, shut-ins, it makes it harder to cast absentee ballots and also makes it easier to throw out completely legitimate vote. i vote absentee. i live in wisconsin, my vote could be thrown out if there is a small technical error now is routinely fixed by clerks and the republican bills would ban that. so, what you are seeing is, the way that some of the conspiracy theories from the big lie and the stop the steal movement have worked into this lejs legislation. we should underline it has nothing to do with preserving the voting box. the subpoenas are absurd. the governor is right to call it a clown show. this is kind of a rogue committee that is inspired by
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what is going on in arizona. they're looking at that instead of seeing a dumpster fire. they're seeing a model, but you know, at least in wisconsin right now they're drawing the line. we have other problems, however, that remain including the hyper jury mandering of the state. there is not anything to do in the short term. >> i want to come back, the six laws vetoed did nothing about voter fraud because they didn't find voter fraud in wisconsin, it's already a crime, punishable. most of the people that exited the crime of voter fraud and to vote dead relatives for donald trump. so is what's happening in wisconsin sort of the exact echo of what's happening nationally but in the state republicans repeated the lie convinced their base in the state that there was a problem to solve that doesn't exist nationally or in wisconsin? >> no, that's exactly right. they're kind of going through the motions here. the speaker of the state assembly had hired some retired
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cops to look into it. i don't know if that's going anywhere. a former supreme court justice who will be looking at all this. again, this is kind of just you know throwing, you know, throwing bait to the bubbas out there to try to convince them that they are doing something. again the bottom line is, that this makes it harder for people even like me to vote by absentee. it makes it easier to throw out the votes. what is actual willty upside for republican dosing that? other than sew to aspeez people my pillow guy is a credible source of information. it's sort of sad and pathetic and unfortunately we'll probably have some result, some effects on the margin. we would have had effects on the margin because everything is razor tight here in wisconsin. >> they're not hiding, the point for them. the point is to shrink the electorate and include more people that vote republican not
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democratic. it's so malevolent. but it's incredibly effective what republicans are doing. the fact that they're not lying why they are doing it is almost the opportunity democrats have to defeat it. what do you make of sort of this being an outlier? a republican legislature for six bills in his state, with six of the 389 currently racing through state legislatures and only a democratic governor could stop it? >> well, what you are seeing in a way it is an outlier. what we are seeing is a strict partisan divide when it comes to this issue. democrats in the states at least have been strongly unified in trying to stop what has been an entirely republican effort to suppress voting rights of people in that state in order to allow republicans to hold on to power with fewer votes. you are seeing that happening from coast-to-coast, in everywhere that that is possible. at this point it's clear the
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only place to stop it would be for washington. the only place where you do not have that complete united democrat, democratic initiative to stop it is if washington, where there is still this battle over the filibuster. look, you have democrats doing everything they can. and in texas, they are facing arrests. here you have a governor that is standing up and saying, listen, stop this phony audit and don't pass these laws. just for anybody who still believes that there is something credible about an investigation like this, an audit of these votes looking for fraud. there is already a mech name in place if they are suspected of fraud to deal with that. it is called the department of justice and the department of justice of the trump administration and the biden administration have found nothing. so that part is done. this is over. so when you see this happening, former officials, police
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officers, all these other folks who are going to look into this. this is subterfuge to come up with phony evidence that can continue to perpetuate the big lie. this is one example it will stop. there are still others where it's not, it's still ongoing in arizona. >> bill barkin couldn't find it. that should tell you about the nawlins existence of widespread voter fraud. thank you both so much for being a part of this conversation. it's good to see both of you. after the break for us, a story breaking moments ago in the "new york times" reveals details from testimony today by one dj pack. the u.s. attorney from georgia who was forced to resign amid donald trump's maniacal to overturn the election. we'll have the details for you on the other side of the break. don't go anywhere.
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. some breaking news to tell you about. today there is further investigation into trump's campaign to overturn the 2020 election results. you've seen the levers of powers at his disposal. the u.s. government he controlled. the "new york times" is reporting b.j. pack former u.s. attorney for georgia told the senate judiciary committee today he resigned in january doj officials warned him trump officials wanted to fire him for refusing to say widespread voter fraud happened in georgia. he did not discuss trump's role
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to resign at the time. he told the senate panel had been displaced. he had investigated allegations of voter fraud in georgia and not found evidence to support them. people familiar with his statement. it follows weekend testimony from former acting attorney jeffrey rosen that reveals stunning details about donald trump's operational involvement in engaging the doj in overturning the election results. the co-rhode island of i alone can fix it, donald trump's catastrophic final year. caroline is here. i read this story and looked back to when that call came out of donald trump on the phone with brad raffensperger and mark meadows and others. it seems the u.s. attorney for georgia resigned two days after that calm. i wonder what else you find significant in terms of what we know now about an event at the time was suspicious but we didn't have a lot of visibility into it? >> you know, i do feel like i am
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putting out in big pink letters mystery solved because it was something i had tried to understand as well. b.j. pack, the timing was so interesting. as reporters we were all sniffing and wondering what has happened. now he told senate investigators what was really going on behind the scenes. and what also is fascinating about this, nicole is, it's a part of a pattern, not just regarding election fraud claims that the president was trying to make. but also of a pattern of u.s. attorneys that trump either directly or indirectly drove out of office when they didn't do what he wanted. so, first things first, the election fraud. this is the president sort of grasping at the 20th straw for how to stay in power and it follows, you know, some sort of nutty ideas of michael flynns, about martial law that he could declare.
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it follows on the heels of climbs that people could take to the streets and lobby. it follows the president, himself, pressuring a georgia investigator about 22 rungs below him to try to find the number of votes he needed in georgia to be declared the winner in that state. >> but when taken together with what we heard in that hour-and-a-half-long call, i mean, how is it not evidence that may also be presented in the context of a criminal investigation of the ex-president? >> well, you know, that's really actually quite fascinating when you think about what's going on in the state. the investigation there which doesn't hinge on an acting current sitting president is really looking it a improper interference in an election. which is a crime. and if you are pressuring government officials to find you votes, that's already sort of
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good evidence of something you should be looking into as a prosecutor for the potential crime. but if you are on top of that, telling your department of justice leaders if washington that you are going to fire a u.s. attorney ocean that he hasn't sort of manufactured that fraud that you seek, or verified/vindicated your view even though it's baseless, that's another prong of fact that could be quite damaging to the former president donald trump. >> then if you work backward from the insurrection, if are you looking at the insurrection and everything that led up to it, you got on january 6th, he tells his supporters to fight. he says after the insurrection has ended, i love you, you've got on the force, the georgia attorney resigned. you have that sunday night. think because of the insurrection, we don't pull that out as often in proximity to the insurrection, but sunday he was telling raffensperger to find
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11,000 whatever 780 votes. do you think it's also of interest to the january 6th select committee? >> well, gosh, i mean, you'd have to be sort of looking under a pillow case to not think that was important. but the time line to me, i'm so grad that you are putting together the pieces of the time line. because that's critical if are you a fact finder who wants to understand understand this attempt to topple democracy and it's also important if you are a criminal investigator. i'm not alleging any crime, i'm not presuming any facts not in evidence, but the facts that we do know so far and i completely trust by the way the "new york times" reporting about what bj pack told the senate. if you accept the facts in front of us, it's worthy of a deep, deep dive. again as we wrote in our book i
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alone can fix it, the president was literally grasping at every branch that he passed on the river trying to find a way to stay in power. and some of them were hair braden, including this effort that he had to get the acting attorney general after he drove the previous attorney general out of office for not agreeing with him about election fraud, the hair braden scheme that he pressured the acting attorney general to count, which is choosing tos to out vote returns in swing states. you can't bo to the supreme court out of like a standing start. you have to actually face. original jurisdiction is a nerdy word, a nerdy term. but it means something in the court of law. it's something donald trump never really thought about. >> but it makes sense and you have written about and phil write about in both books, he thought the supreme court justices owed him the same
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loyalty that allen wweiselberg obviously pays him, it would appear. so it, all the pieces fit together. i think as someone who sees the pieces after you have written about him, the times has written about him, they look different when have you more of the behind the scenes machinations. other one from your colleague is they don't hide very much of their bad conduct. newly obtained transcript, according to devlin told new york agents it was okay to throw a fake when campaigning, to which his then law partner added, quote, there is no obligation to tell the truth. rudy guiliani in an interview with the justice department, they all conducted in a room at trump's hotel in downtown washington. they don't lie about thinking it's okay to lie. >> yeah. it's so interesting that rudy was saying that in 2018. of course, you know the mueller
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probe was ongoing at that time. and came to a conclusion in that next summer. but it's pretty interesting. the president has been described to me by sources as someone who doesn't care very much about the finer points of fact or truth and has often said to aides when they confront him, i mean pleasantly confront him and say, sir, that's not what happened. this is what happened. he would often retort, well, you know, it doesn't really matter. we're talking about the big points hire. and the big points here are the election was not stolen. so to continue to argue that is, you know, really a slap in the face of something the american people who should be given straight talk from their leadership. >> i think we have been covering since the first hearing of the january 6th committee, the slap in the face, that the entire republican party has seemed to relish giving to the law enforcement officials whose
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bodies were mutilated and tased. so there's wimpblt i wonder what you make of today's news, the 28 impeached president of the mother of ashley bob it. >> it's hard to really comment how somebody is, let me rephrase, if you are the american president, are you supposed to be representing everybody. and you are supposed to be looking out for and sympathizing and emma lies i theseing for all individuals. ashley bab it dying was sad. no question about it, any death is tragic. she was refusing a police order to stop from an officer working to protect house members and house leadership and she was breaking through glass while being told that this was too far and unsafe. because those officers were trying to protect and do their job to protect the leadership.
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so, it's tragic. it's also tragic how many officers for the capitol police have taken their lives in the wake of the ptsd that followed that misevil hand-to-hand combat after the president told his followers to go up to capitol and fight for their country or they weren't going to have a country anymore. so, it seems to me it would be worth while for presidents to meet with the loved ones, forgive me, the family of loved once they've lost on both sides of this argument. >> it's always good to talk to you about all of this. thank you for spending some time with us today. up next, u.s. officials are sounding the alarms about the impending collapse of afghanistan's capitol as taliban fighters begin to regain and retake ground there. and retake ground there.
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without talking to your doctor. talk to your doctor about dupixent. a few folks from the areas of afghanistan or gathered over here. they don't have a place to stay at night. they don't have their own relatives, even in kabul, it's very tough. it's very difficult to just do both, to live a normal life. so that's why because it's of the war, it's because of taliban. >> the collapse in afghanistan's capital city kabul into taliban hand may be imminent far southeastern than u.s. officials spared and predicted a few weeks
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ago. current officials tell "the washington post" the biden administration is preparing for this accelerated time line now. a collapse could happen in nine days or less than the previous ones predicting six months. the worsening embolden by the u.s. departure have taken ground including seven provincial capitals in the span of days. president of righteous media, and the host of the independent americans podcast. paul, i want you to do all the talking and we'll get through all the aspects of this story. but first do you think that's the right time line for the whole collapse? >> it could be faster. i mean, when you plan a strategy, you don't plan for the best course of action. you plan for the worst. and we could see kabal fall in less than 30 days. the rub that i'm seeing,
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especially in military and veterans community is the white house isn't leveling with this. they keep saying, oh, the afghans need to stiffen up and step up and buck up. this is not about will. this is about military precision. it is about logistical support. and this is about the reality that the white house did not have a plan for a responsible withdrawal. now, i don't think we should stay there forever. but i also don't think we should leave our friends to die. and that's what's happening now. it is devolving into a humanitarian disaster. women are being slaughtered. children are being slaughtered. what's next? what are they going to do about it? we can't just wipe our hands clean and say, oh, they have to get tough now. >> quote, we have modern equipment. they've got to fight for themselves. fight for their nation. what is happening on the ground? can you elaborate? >> they're fighting like hell,
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and they're overmatched. and this is part of why i think the white house is not being straight with the american people and with the world. it is not about troop numbers. these 300,000 troops may not actually be 300,000. there could be these ghost soldiers on paper. didn't we learn a long time ago that troop numbers aren't the key to winning modern wars. we had hundreds of thousands of troops on the ground in the iraq and we didn't win there. we didn't win in vietnam and we had overwhelming numbers there, too. the white house has to level with us here that they didn't have a plan. as an example with our interpreters. why didn't they have a country set up where they could send them? why are we playing mother may i for a place to put the people who put their lives on the line for us? now they're paying the price. going into the 20th anniversary of 9/11, we're looking into a
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humanitarian catastrophe. they can't keep passing the buck over to the afghans. >> this is a white house whose central rational is making government work. to your point about evacuating interpreters and allies. the biden administration has overseen three flights for a total of 700. at the current pace it would take two months to fly out the initial group even though u.s. troops depart on august 31st. do they have two months? >> no. they're getting slaughtered right now. they're being slaughtered while we're on television right now. i have been covering this. a lot of folks are trying to ring the alarm here. this is not a military problem. this is a logistic and bureaucratic problem. this is like the dmv line from hell. we're saying get to kabal and maybe we can get you out. they can't get to kabal without being slaughtered.
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we have gotten out 1,500. here is the bottom line, nicole. president biden announced the withdrawal in april. what have they been doing since then? why aren't there lines of planes on the airfield getting these people out? because if we don't stand with the afghans, it is about the next war. when we ask someone to step up with us against north korea or russia or against someone else, they will remember this moment. they will remember the betrayal and the fact that the american public left them out to dry. >> and that endangered the men and the women more than anyone else who rely on them when they're in the battlefield, no? >> yeah. i mean thrks is a betrayal. i think that's why you are seeing so many veterans outraged by this. we knew we were getting out of afghanistan. it was obvious we were going to pull out of afghanistan, but we didn't have to do it like this. what are we going to do in a
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month from now if kabal falls? what are we going to do next? that's where we need the strategic vision from the white house and we need jen psaki to give us more than talking points. that's what it's looking like on your television every single day, and that's our responsibility, not just as an occupying force but as a global power. you can't just leave people to be slaughtered. it is not the american way. it is wrong and it is just despicable. >> with your help, we will stay on this, but we need your help. like we mentioned earlier, the independent american podcast is doing a special episode tomorrow on afghanistan and on all of these topics on saving our allies who are being slaughtered. paul, thank you. keep yourself free around this time every day. we'll stay on this. >> yes, ma'am. >> a quick break for us. we'll be right back. a new 5g phone. old customers. new customers. families. businesses.
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the life of the new chief of the capital police can be separated into two cap chers: the chapter that came before a mob stormed the capital on january 6th and the chapter that comes after that day. it jolted the major out of his comfortable retirement in his suburban maryland home. it meant thrusting himself back into the center of the fray. in a new interview, he describes the profound impression it left on his life and the career in public service he said he left behind. if you had asked me on january 5, i wouldn't have a single thought of going back to work. i did not miss the 24-hour stress of being the police
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chief. then came the insurrection. i got very emotional. it was horrible. i watched cops getting hurt just trying to do their job so the members of congress could do their job. it just took me. now major and his force are asking for help as they fend off threats to the capital amplified by a heightened state of politicization. we need more cops, he told the bulwark, simply. we need more equipment and we need more training. we attempt to honor the sacrifice made by tom major in the wake of one of the darkest days of our nation's history and we honor the brave men and women in uniform that responded on that day. thank you for letting us into your homes. "the beat" with ari melber starts now. >> i want to welcome everyone to "the beat." another big win for the biden agenda coming with two in two days. the president making an fdr style push to


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