tv The Rachel Maddow Show MSNBC August 11, 2021 9:00pm-10:01pm PDT
>> the word failure is almost never good news, the word failure coming from a doctor all the more so. but when you hear that word used as it was today by the clinical director of one states flak ship university and number one trauma, when you hear that word failure, used this specific way by this specific kind of doctor, that is not just bad news, that is national news. >> so, since the pandemic i think the things that hospitals
have feared the most's total failure, total failure of the hospital system. if we track back a week or so and we look at the case positivity rate, the number of new positives that we're seeing, the rate of the testing positive and the rate of hospitalizations based on what we are seeing, if we continue that trajectory within the next five, to 7 to 10 days, we're gonna see failure of the hospital system in mississippi. hospitals are full from memphis to meridian, everything is full. if there were schools opening back, a bus of kids, we would not be able to take care of all those kids at this hospital. we're in a pretty serious situation. we see federal teams come in, it needs to open peoples eyes to the fact that this is a serious situation.
so we're hopeful that we can get people to wear masks and get vaccinated, and stay way from each other. and that this rapid rate of rise that we are seeing will peak or plateau pretty quickly here, so that we don't get into a situation where there is nowhere to transfer a patient at all. we have to stop ambulances. some of the things that we just don't want to do as a system. that is our nightmare, we do not want to do that, because we know that when we do that, not the covid patients, but all the other patients, the heart attacks, the strokes, all the things that we need to take care of that have time sensitive care issues, we're not gonna be able to take care of. that is why we got into health care for. i hope people can understand that it is a very serious situation, i don't want to say dire, i don't want to say that we have reached the point of
failure. we are definitely headed that way though. >> we are definitely headed that way. that is doctor alan jones. he was speaking this afternoon at a pull the fire alarm press conference convened at the flagship hospital, the leading medical center in all of mississippi. the university of mississippi medical center. he's talking about that states hospitals just being swamped. with six people with covid. the exact quote there that got so much attention today after the convene this press conference, he said if we continue the trajectory were on, within the next five to 7 to 10 days, i think we're going to see failure of the hospital system in mississippi. republican governor tate reeves of mississippi has publicly been playing down the severity of the covid situation in his state saying, literally, there's no reason to panic, everything is fine, stop
panicking. that led to headlines like this one, this was in mississippi today, mississippi lives are at risk, our governor is hiding. it led to this headline in the mississippi free press, with mississippi hospitals near calamity, governor reeves leaves state for political event. and that's true, he did. but while the state's governor is otherwise occupied in telling everyone everything is fine, and criticizing the use of masks and refusing to talk about vaccines in a way that is designed to get people vaccinated, he saying everything is fine and keeping up his political travel, you heard doctor jones mention that when federal teams come in it should tell you that this is a very serious situation, when he's talking about there is that the mississippi state government has his own issues, the federal government of the united states has actually, today, answered a call for help
from mississippi's hospitals. >> we are in the midst of a very serious situation. i know that you have probably all heard by now that we haven't been part of a request for some federal assistance, so working with the department of health and through media the governor's office, we've made a request we have along with the number of entities made a request for federal help, and we were not sure what that would look like, if even we would be able to get any, we are glad that in fact, yes, we have gotten the notification that we will be getting some federal assistance in the way of manpower. what we're planning to do is deployed to field hospital into the basement of garage be and
utilize these additional personnel in that facility as it turns out we are getting some physicians, nurses, respiratory therapists, pharmacists, were hoping by friday to be able to start seeing patients in the temporary facility. >> we anticipate that we will see a disaster medical assistance team arrive here in the next day to two days, depending on when the flights come in. we are deploying the states mobile field hospital to our parking garage, so that we have a field hospital that we can then use the b staff to take care of patients. >> where are these doctors and medical personnel coming from? >> because as i've heard, it's hard to find anybody to come help you guys out. >> u.s. health and human services. these are federal employees. the best analogy is similar to
the national guard, these clinicians have day jobs, but they're also part-time federal employees that can be activated by the federal government and deployed in times of disaster. >> how many people can you treat in this mobile hospital? >> the maximum is gonna be 50, but that will decrease depending on acuity, the higher acuity, the sicker the patients and the few where the patients will be able to treat. you >> mentioned the pediatric hospital. where is the capacity for the pediatric hospital? >> so our pediatric hospital is full. we had 21 pediatric patients today, six in the icu, for on ventilators, definitely the highest number that we've had through the entire pandemic. boarding pediatric patients and our pediatric er, i think about ten. all of our hospitals are full.
this asset that is being deployed, potentially, being able to take care of older teenagers which may help some, but we are seeing a number definitely more than we've ever had before of healthy children that are getting hospitalized with covid. >> for kids on ventilators, ten k deaths that are boarding the emergency room waiting for hospital beds, as he said there are more healthy children getting hospitalized because of sickness with covid than they've ever dealt with before. the contingency planning they're doing here, in realtime, and explaining to the press, mississippi is stark stuff, this is and of the line stuff, they're hoping they may be able to put older teenagers into the field hospital, they're putting up right now, in the parking garage for the university of mississippi medical center, they're hoping they can up the federal disaster teams that are coming into staff that hospital
in the garage, they're hoping maybe they can treat older kids, even though it's not designed as pediatric unit. they have so many kids hospitalized, that they need space to put little kids in hospital beds, inside the hospital or else they're out of space. and all hospital including little kids that are sick enough to be and i see, and to be on ventilators. >> i mean, this is not what the warning might happen, this is what's happening today. the state of mississippi is in trouble. again, this is not warning about what might happen, in the hospitals and the states are full including the pediatric hospitals and the case numbers are rising every day, they have six and 7000 new cases every day. it means 500 hospitalizations over the course of the next few days, according to the state medical director. when the flagship hospital announced at every hospital in the state is at capacity, when they're announcing their between five and ten days of total failure of the hospital
system in the entire state, this is trouble. total failure of the hospital system doesn't mean the hospitals closed, but it means that if you call 9-1-1, and you can get yourself an ambulance the ambulance will turn your way at the hospital. again, that was the word at this afternoon from the university of mississippi medical center which is in jackson, the state capital. also in mississippi, ellison barber went about a hunch rig miles down to ocean springs mississippi, vaguely near gulfport mississippi, allison went there to try to understand this kind of situation in mississippi means on the units. what it means for doctors and nurses in mississippi right now who are in the midst of what is a national level crisis, trying to hold back this tidal wave of new very sick patients, as the state exhaust its resources. part of what allison heard is
that so many younger people are getting sick or now, it's driving how hard this is right now on doctors and nurses. here is doctor ijlal babar, in oceans bring mississippi. >> they are often family members who will talk to us, and when the most difficult things is discussing end-of-life, and worsening status with family members of these young patients. whereas before we were talking to children of these elderly people who are often prepared in their minds for eventual demise, now we're talking to parents, were talking to young spouses and they tell us that this patient has a ten-year-old or 15 year old and it breaks our hearts. when you start talking about
end-of-life with people like this, in this age group, it's very difficult. it's very difficult. the reactions we get -- you know, some people are dumbstruck, some people are angry, it is very's. and then of course we have to take care of these patients at the bedside, this doctor was putting a chest tube in one patient and then just gonna go put another one and another patient. so you basically are going from one room to another, and at the same time you're getting calls from the er about more people rolling in. so, it's constant. you know, i wish our governor would step up and say very clearly how important the vaccines are. i think that everyone in every way they can should come out and say so that people can be encouraged to go and get vaccinated. because otherwise, until it
hits you, you don't realize what it means, when your own loved one is dying that's when it means something. >> doctor ijlal babar is the head of critical care at singing river held in ocean springs mississippi, down by gulfport mississippi. he went on in the interview to say that one of the challenges that they are growing into now is nurses who are working so hard and working double time, triple time, nurses finding that ultimately they cannot keep working in the icu, they can't take it anymore under the circumstances, in part because of the frustration as he put it, that almost all of the suffering could be prevented if people just got vaccinated. frustration over that is driving nurses to leave critical care, at this critical time also with these increasing numbers of sick people, they are just exhausted and can't go on. >> we have a solution by
getting the vaccine and wearing our masks and doing what we need to do. we're tired. nurses are so tired. it's getting to the point where we need help. we've been helping as much as we can and we need help from our community. i respect everybody's choice to get vaccinated or not but when it comes down to it it's just gonna continue to get worse. and it's gonna get to a point where it affects our kids, you know. that's my biggest fear. it's gonna keep mutating and we could've done everything in our power to stop it and you know, eradicate diseases like vaccines are supposed to do and if it keeps going on like this it can get to the point where our kids, we're gonna have kids on vents and different parts of the state and -- you know, we won't be able to say that we did everything to protect our children, you know. the people that will take a
bullet for the kid, it can't be as easy as taking a shot. so, as a nurse it does wear on you to feel like it's not coming to an end anytime soon. so that's -- >> our you surprise it still this bad after a year and a half? >> yeah, yeah. >> how do you find the strength to do this again and again? >> you know, i don't have any strength left. honestly, i've given so much and i can't keep going. that's why i decided to move to a different department, because it's been affecting me in ways that i never thought possible. and it is not going to get better and i have to protect myself and my family and my sanity. because if, you know, people aren't doing what they need to
do to protect us -- and you know we're human. we're not robots were not machines. we can continue to do this forever at this capacity. >> your owners on the icu floor right now -- >> know, i can't, i can do this anymore. i've seen more deaths than i ever thought that i would see in my entire life. i've held more hands of patients in their last moments when their families couldn't be by their side. more than i thought i ever would. and i know this is the icu and people pass. it shouldn't be to this level, though. you know, when i chose to be an icu nurse, i knew this is what i signed up for but i don't think anybody really realize that this is going to be part of the deal. that this was going to be this exhausting. in every way.
it's just heartbreaking in every way i don't even know how to describe it. it's... overwhelming. and i just can't even really speak about it anymore. i'm so exhausted from mental strain of the process of this. just... just... it's all here here, it's all you see, you know? this whole debate about vaccines and then coming in here and you wake up every morning and you know that it's just going to be the same devastation as the day before. you know, there's not really...
it's always a win when somebody leaves and goes home, but they never go home the same way that they came in. >> a nurse at singing river health and oceans rings, mississippi. that was her speaking with our colleague today from their critical care unit which is overwhelmed completely at capacity just like every other critical care unit and every hospital, full stop, in the state of mississippi right now. the state health officer in mississippi warned at the beginning of this week that with six and 7000 new cases being reported in the state every day now, quote, this will translate into around 500 new hospitalizations in the coming days while we have zero icu beds at level 1 to 3 hospitals in the state and we have more than 200 patients waiting in emergency rooms to get a hospital room. that, as i said, has led in jackson to a new hospital unit being set up in the parking garage at the university of
mississippi medical center. that would be stopped by dozens of medical personnel being shipped in as a disaster management team from the federal government. it means the hospitals and icus, even pediatric hospitals everywhere in that state are totally full and down on coal sport, as you saw, it means nurses are to heartbroken to frustrated and too exhausted to work in the icu day after day they can't do it anymore. i know we've been talking about covid in front of paging covid stories for a long time, now for a year and a half now but this is new, what we are seeing now. the covid disaster unfolding particularly in the south right now. definitely unfolding in states with low vaccination rates. it is getting to be a next level disaster. we didn't previously see states talking about entire hospital systems failing statewide. mississippi thinks it's their within the next 5 to 10 days. i mean, you can see the strain in the states, if you look closely enough. this is a bad enough situation
in the states now that it's also going to be a new test of the federal government's ability to target, literally, disaster resources to places in our country where the health system fails. because that is starting in some states and you are seeing that with the deployment of this disaster management team to jackson, mississippi. very stark stuff. it's not like it has been it is time once again to start thinking about what we all can do to support health workers in our lives. i mean, the first thing they will tell you is to get vaccinated and get everybody in your life vaccinated. it's the best thing you can do for that. beyond that, doctors and nurses and respiratory therapists who work on the front lines in these increasing swamp hospitals over huge parts of the country, they are a group of our fellow americans who are going to need, not just, you know, recognition and thanks. they are likely to need help from the rest of us given this super human being we are asking then to do now piled on top of
it the additional frustration and heartbreak and exciting knowing this could be preventable if there were a greater uptick of vaccines. just a serious thing. all right, so, there is a lot of news we are going to be talking about tonight. it's one of those nights when a lot is going on into the evening hours. we've got to change our rundown over the course of today's production day. first of all, you should know a filibuster is underway right now as we speak. a real, won a talking filibuster in texas, and in texas while you are filibustering you cannot eat anything, you can't drink anything. you can't even lean against a thing while you are holding the floor. but that filibuster effort is being led right now in texas by texas democratic state senator carol alvarado. she is leading democrats in that ongoing filibuster right now. this is in the texas state senate where they're using the filibuster there to try to stop the republican voting restriction bill. you'll remember text mcas from the house fled the state
capital to deny a quorum in the house, the other legislative chamber in texas those texas house democrats as of today are facing arrest warrants that were sworn out for them last night. can we will be checking in with one of those democrats tonight to find out what their plan is and how they are coping with the threat of arrest. this filibuster is underway in austin, and looks like it may go at least overnight. tonight, as the department of homeland security is warning police departments around the country about a renewed threat of political violence from trump supporters who believe trump's claims that there was fraud in the election, who believe trump is supposed to be reinstated sometime this month which is part of the trump election fraud fantasy. tonight, we are getting the first reporting on what happened behind closed doors today in washington. one former trump appointed u.s. attorney p.j. pack testified in a closed-door session to a senate committee to you how trump used the --
to stay in power, despite, you know, democracy. p.j. pack resigned as u.s. attorney in georgia in early january under very mysterious circumstances while trump was trying to make georgia the first state to nullify its election results. it's election results after biden won there. the bj pak resignation is under investigation, both by congressional committees and by the office of inspector general at the justice department. the senate judiciary committee investigation into these matters has let some senators on the committee to suggest already that the prospect of criminal charges is real here. bj pak testimony, again, behind closed doors but we've got katie benner from the new york times here. she's had this story by the horns since it first broke. she was the first national reporter today to report on what he said at his closed-door testimony. speaking with her in just a moment. i should tell you tonight we are getting late word that a conservative trump appointed federal judge in d.c. has just
ruled that a multi billion dollar lawsuit against rudy giuliani's sydney powell and mike lindell, the pillow company guy, that multi billion dollar lawsuit will be allowed to proceed against them. this is a lawsuit by the company dominion which makes voting machines. they've been at the center of trump fueling these conspiracy theories of how the election must have been stolen from him. but with giuliani having his law license suspended now, and sidney powell facing sanctions and potential disbarment. with this huge lawsuit now proceeding against them and mike lindell, former president trump's lawyers and his surrogates that have been pushing these trash theories for him are facing increasingly serious consequences for doing so. even as the department of homeland security warns that the consequences for the country might be more political violence this month. for president trump, of course, there's been no negative consequences whatsoever for soaking any of the stuff, but everybody working on his behalf as seen things get significantly more dire.
so, like i said, a lot of news still unfolding over the course of the night tonight. there is lots to get to. stay with us. to. stay with us and ask your doctor about biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to and stay undetectable. that's when the amount of virus is so low it cannot be measured by a lab test. research shows people who take h-i-v treatment every day and get to and stay undetectable can no longer transmit h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. rare, life-threatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems. do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. tell your doctor about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. if you have hepatitis b, do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your doctor. common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache.
arrest warrants. the warnings are for the democrats of the texas house would have been camped out in d.c. for the last few weeks in an effort to deny republicans back home the warmth they need to pass an anti voting rights bill. back home in austin, the texas house sergeant at arms this morning went door to door at the state capital with those arrest warrants in hands looking for those missing democrats at their offices, looking to arrest them. meanwhile, this is live footage of the texas state senate right now, where democratic state senator is leading a filibuster tonight, against the republican anti voting bill. this time in the senate. the texas senate has one of those old school filibuster rule were not allowed to stop speaking or sit down or lean on something while you filibuster, or it's all instantly over. senator alvarado is allowed to take questions, that is some of what we are seeing, other democrats rise to ask question,
she has been added for more than two hours now, we don't know how long it's going to go. we talked with senator alvarado this afternoon before the filibuster started, she told us quote, this is a tool we have at our disposal, and i'm going to use it. the house democrats are doing their part, everyone is doing their part, this is my contribution. joining us now is trey martinez fischer one of the democratic members of the house, who led the effort in d.c. to stop the anti voting rights, he still in d.c., thank you so much for being here, we really appreciate you taking the time. >> thank, you rachel. >> so, we're watching all these moving parts. we have seen a handful of democrats leave d.c. and go back to texas, we have seen these arrest warrants sworn out by the republican house speaker, we're not seeing the effort, dramatic effort in the senate to slow things down there, to actively filibuster the anti
voting bill in the senate. give us the lay of the land of how you're doing, and how you see these moving parts? >> texans are fed up. you see what's happening in the senate, senator alvarado i applaud her for doing her part. we have been doing this for a month, in the texas house. we now have warrants out for arrest, that is not going to deter us, that is only going to make a stronger. can you give us more resolve, and we will continue to fight. then you also see things like our mayors in county judges, in our school districts are also suing the government because he won't protect them and get out of the way and let our local officials provide public health. texas is on the brink. the only way we know how to demonstrate our disappointment is to have this sort of disobedience to walk out of the chamber, to file lawsuits, to fight and push back and we hope the country is watching and i hope they know that you can only push so much in the state of texas, we are gonna come
back and we are gonna fight back and protect our rights. >> of course, it's not an accident that when you all left texas you came to washington d.c.. we've talked about this multiple times, you've been able to be with us on the show about the effort to turn this crisis in texas into an incentive, catalyst in washington to pass a national voting rights law that will stop states like texas from doing this and stop states everywhere from taking voting rights. last night, we had some development on that front, late at night i think it was close to four in the morning as the senate finished up its work to pass the big infrastructure bill over the house, they tended one last thing before they went on recess, they took a procedural vote that sets up a voting rights vote as the very first thing they will do when they come back just after labor day. that is not the same thing is passing a voting rights bill,
but is that idle encouraging to you? >> it absolutely is. we woke up to a 4:30 am email with a consolation for a meeting we had with our good friend amy senator klobuchar, who has been a leader on this issue to tell us that we will cancel the meeting, she will be flying back home, but we were hoping to be there in the senate when they took this vote. of course it happened at 4 am, i think it's important to note that the unanimous consensus was blocked by ted cruz and i guess every generation has its thurman and he wants to play a part. we are hardened that schumer said make no mistake when the senate resumes in september, the very first item they will take up will be the voting rights bill, it will be the for the people act and i think it's important for everybody in this country during this recess to make sure that we are being very vocal, that we do not let our guard down and we continue to fight, not only for this
bill but to make it very clear that if republicans don't want to be bipartisan or pragmatic, we are not going to let a tradition in the u.s. senate get in the way of our constitutional right to vote, and we need the senate to act and we hope they act in september just like leader schumer projects. >> representative trey martinez fischer, democrat in the senate state house was in d.c. on a mission with his fellow democrats. his republicans back home threatening with arrest and worse, sir, thank you for being here, thank you. >> thank you. >> much more news to get to, stay with us. stay with us
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as in his reason for leaving. the timing of that resignation has bugged me ever since like a mosquito buzzing in my bedroom at night. i can't sleep. i'm so annoyed, i need to know. i mean, here's the u.s. attorney in georgia, one of the pivotal states in the 2020 election, he resigned january 4th. that means he resigns right after the washington post published audio of that call where trump was pressuring georgia election officials that they needed to overturn the election and proclaim him to be the winner. it was the day after that that the u.s. attorney resigned. it was two days before the january 6th attack on the capitol by trump supporters. it was a day before the u.s. senate runoffs were due to happen in georgia, which would ultimately decide, control of the united states senate. he resigns right in the middle of all that and it is just for unforeseen circumstances and that's it? within a week of bjp pack resigning, it was a wall street journal that reported that he was forced to resign by the
white house, but the nature and circumstances of why he was forced to resign at whose request, what his resignation was supposed to accomplish has always remained murky. groundbreaking reporting by the new york times benny banner has revealed that his resignation was preceded by contentious meeting the night before in the oval office. this was a meeting january 3rd, and at that meeting trump's attorney general jeff rosen, and another justice official, a trump guy who was trying to cast doubt in the election results, fought it out in a meeting with trump. they argued over which of them should leave the justice department whether rosen should stay the attorney general or trump should replace him with this geoff clark guy, they argued whether it should falsely legitimize trump's claim about the election being stolen which jeff clark might have seemed willing to do. going into that meeting several
justice department officials were so worried that trump was going to go ahead and do it, that he was gonna take rosen out as attorney general and put this jeff clark guy instead, they were so worried about that that they agreed that they would all resign en masse if that occurred. really hair raising stuff, there will be movies made about this someday. they're reporting about that meeting suggested that when the dust settled and the attorney general was not replaced, rosen stayed in his position, one senior official wrote at the time it's sounds like the sound of justice has won, rosen got to stay and not be replaced by this geoff clark guy. but something else happened after that meeting, which still to this day doesn't make sense to me. we have these documents that were recently released by the house oversight committee, and they show us that after that meeting was over, when everybody was like did justice succeed? is he still attorney general? it's clark gonna take over? something else happens on a
totally separate track, one of the participants in that meeting, the deputy attorney general sends an email to be jay pack in georgia, to the u.s. attorney in georgia at 10:09 pm, eastern time, this is after the oval office showdown and he tolls tells him to call him asap. by 7:41 the next morning, be jay pack had resigned as u.s. attorney, and within a few hours richard donahue sent him in email thanking him for resigning and calling him a class act for doing so. why was donahue thanking him -- first of all why did pack resign? first of all why did he get all this urgent call from the number two official that led to his resignation? why did that happen after the oval office meeting? and why after the governor signed did he get flanked by the number two official in the doj. when someone resigns you think for it if you did it at your request? why would he have asked the u.s. attorney to resign?
so what happened here? well, today be jay pat gave his side of the sordid to the senate judiciary committee. behind closed doors. the times is katie benner reports that his closed-door testimony lasted more than three hours. the times report that pack told investigators questioning him of the hearing that his resignation had been prompted by justice department officials warning him that president trump intended to fire him for refusing to say the widespread voter fraud had been found in georgia. as the time put said resigning would preempt a public dismissal. pack also told the committee that trump had been dismays death his office had never investigated allegations of fraud in fulton county georgia and not found any evidence to support those allegations. so, weijia pack resigned rather than be publicly fired, and so it also seems like he resigned at the request at the number two official in the justice department. why would you ask somebody to
resign so they could avoid being publicly fired? it just doesn't make sense. joining us now is new york times justice reporter katie benner, who has had this story by the horns since the very beginning. katy, thank you so much for being with us tonight, i know it's kind of a big night. >> thank you for having me. >> let me ask first if i am asking the right questions. i feel like mr. packs resignation has been mysterious from the beginning and maybe important from the beginning. resignations happen for a number of reasons, you resigned because you're asked to do something unconscionable, you resigned in protest. you resigned as a favor to somebody, you resigned in order to stymie some plot whether or not you're gonna speak out about it. i don't know what category of resignation too could to be jay pak resignation get, do you feel like you know? >> i think there is no context
we can bring to bear. if you look what happened in other department officials in the trump administration in the several weeks leading to the january 6th attack you saw officials who refused to comply with trump officials who pushed back on the idea that trump had one including bill barr, they were publicly scurried by the -- and it was very very -- and this is something that all sorts of officials talked about saying that it was not a fate that anybody wanted, especially if you are still young and wanted to get another job perhaps in conservative politics, perhaps within the republican party. it was considered of faith that you really wanted to avoid. and so, as you laid out in your introduction, you have a situation where officials have gone to the oval office late on a sunday and they've realized that not only this president trump really want somebody in georgia to say that the election was fraudulent, but he's obsessed with georgia and he complained about it
throughout this very strange argument that his top officials were having about who would run the justice department. i am told in this testimony today, bj pak discussed this. he knew he was going to leave by the way. he'd be fired or would resign and rich donna he was giving him an opportunity to make the decision how he wanted to lead the department, but he was most certainly leaving. >> when mr. donahue responded to the resignation of bj pak by sending an email which we've seen, it was released by the oversight committee. sending an email that thanked him for resigning and called him a class act for resigning. i feel like the cast that put retroactively on the rescue nations seem to suggest mister don he wasn't giving him a choice as to whether or not he wanted to jump or be pushed. it seemed like donahue suggested to him that this was the right thing to do. or ask him to do this. essentially, as a favor, or the right thing to do for the
country or us something that would have positive consequences. and i reading that wrong? >> i think you're probably reading it correctly and if you think about it from the point of view of the justice department officials who lived through a very long set of weeks including a very long evening they saw a situation in which the present was extremely volatile. they felt they were on the brink at any moment of an utterance being made that would throw the election results into complete chaos, and mollifying trump is the route they chose we can debate whether or not it was the correct thing to do, but it is what this group of officials chose to do. part of mollifying trump is getting rid of things that are going to trigger him or make him react or make him upset. one of those things at that moment was bj pak. i don't think you are reading things incorrectly. again i think it's going to be up for debate and will be a question for the history books as to whether or not it was the right thing to do for these officials to stay mom and push back on the white house quietly amongst themselves, or if they should have been public about what was happening.
>> there's a consequence that once bj pak does resign whether or not it is that the direct request of the senior officials or whether he did it because he wanted to avoid getting yelled at by the president or whatever it was, there was an effective in terms of the georgia plot which is at the white house then handpicked another official, they went outside the line of succession and in bj pak office picked someone else and insulted their, who presumably thought would be more mean-able to these concerns or be lust burned to the saddle of the president who was obsessed, as you report, with georgia at that point so mr. bj pak resigning didn't throw a wrench in the works of this georgia plot it seems to have, if anything, facilitated >> it did and it didn't it's one of the really interesting things about that twist you mention. you are right, bj pak was replaced by bobby christine was thought to be somebody who is a close ally of president trump 's. interestingly, several days after christine gets to the
office, audio of a meeting he has with the stuff there is leaked to the atlanta journal-constitution in that audio, bobby christine says, i now look at these cases myself i am not seeing fraud i expected to comment and find a lot of fraud based on things i've been seeing and heard i got here and i found the exact same thing that bj pak found. indeed, while people were worried that bobby christine was going to come in and do something dramatic for trump, instead what he did is he came in, said nothing, and suddenly this interesting audio leaks out where he himself says there is no fraud once again, reiterating what bj pak had privately said. what jeffrey rosen had privately set and would bill barr has said privately and publicly. we are not finding the widespread fraud that would impact the results of this election whatsoever. but >> last question for you on this, katy we believe that the department of justice inspector
general is looking at mr. bj pak resignation and the circumstances they're in as part of the investigation as to what happened at the white house press wearing the justice department around trying to overturn the election results we've also seen some senators come out of earlier testimony in this ongoing investigation and say they think that there may be criminal charges implicated here in terms of some of the behavior t they've her testimony about. the further understanding we are developing about bj pak do you think that materially impacts the fulton county criminal resignation of trump, or the potential inspector general investigation, the seriousness of it, any potential criminal charges? >> based on the reporting i have coming out of that meeting, it does sound like people who are listening to the testimony and he felt there were bigger questions that needed to be asked about whether or not anybody could be held criminally responsible for the kind of efforts that were being undertaken to basically overturn the results of the election. keep in mind, the idea of
criminal charges, criminal case, that is such a slow-moving -- a politically-charged situation that there is a feeling within the justice department it would be better if the inspector general ran his course, fully investigated, and decided whether or not it would be appropriate to make a criminal referral to the justice department that is a slow process and an ig report usually takes about a year. i am not thinking this is going to result in criminal charges anytime soon if at all again this is going to be the most methodical investigation is going to be the most careful because it involves a senior former justice department official and involves people who are working in the white house including people who were probably helping president trump try to overturn the results of the election. and that is what these committees are trying to get to the bottom of. it's what they're asking and the justice department officials who spoke so far and the justice department in general have only provided so
much information for them to really understand what was going on with trump's efforts to overturn the election and whether or not there is criminality criminal behavior they need to speak to people who were working at the white house. who had the full picture. >> new york times estimate reported katie benner it's a real pleasure to have you here. thank you for your clarity on this as always. i appreciate it. we've got more ahead tonight. stay with us. onight stay with us ♪ rock the boat don't rock the boat, baby ♪ ♪ rock the boat don't tip the boat over ♪ here we go. ♪ don't rock the boat, baby rock the boat ♪ see disney's jungle cruise. it's time to rock the boat, america. >> tomorrow, the government is
going to release the results of the 2020 census. at least going to release the parts of it that tend to make people the most crazy. the washington post previewed a slice of that data this week with this headline that made the hosts that fox news primetime should coffee out all their collective noses all at the same time. we are seeing a increase in diversity in our country, population growth is driven entirely by people of color. the number of white people declining for the first time in this country's history.
that was just a preview earlier this week, again in the washington post. tomorrow, we will get all the definitive details on how the country and how specific neighborhoods have shifted in terms of race and voting age and other things. state legislators will use the official data we are getting tomorrow to redraw districts for the next ten years of elections so, tomorrow's data is going to be a really big deal. i know just the president i'm going to want to talk to you about all this. the former attorney general of the united states, eric holder, is now chair of the national democratic redistricting committee. he is going to be here live tomorrow night to talk about that data and more. you will not want to miss it. be right back, stay with us. back, stay with us. ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google, turn up the heat. ♪ ♪ ♪
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to achieve - to change the game and inspire >> all right that is gonna do the team of tomorrow. it for us tonight, thank you for being, here you know tomorrow is? it's friday eve, what? see you again tomorrow night, now it's time for the last word where ali velshi is in for lawrence. >> are you in on friday? >> yes. >> friday is the day that the pillow guy says the president in the vice president are going to resign in the previous guys gonna become the president again, he's put out the date. >> i'm totally going to love that, it's gonna be a big day. >> that might be what we talk about on friday night, i don't think so. katie benner is the soundtrack to the survival of democracy, we're getting most of her information from her. i'm curious about one thing she said about the ig report of necessity and methodical and it could take a year.
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