tv The Rachel Maddow Show MSNBC August 12, 2021 1:00am-2:00am PDT
disagree on the masks, but i'm glad you're coming in speaking out about vaccine mandates. i appreciate you coming out professor ilya somin. thank. you >> thank you very much. >> that's all for all. we good evening. thank you, my friend. thanks for joining us this hour. the word failure is never good news. coming from a doctor, all the more so. but when you hear that word used as it was today by the clinical director of one state's flagship university hospital and level one trauma center, when you hear that word, failure, used this specific way by this specific kind of doctor, that is not just bad news. that is national news. >> so since the pandemic, i think the thing that hospitals have feared the most is just
total failure of the hospital system. and, you know, if we track back a week or so, when we look at the case positivity rate, the number of new positives that we're seeing, the rate of the testing positives, and the rate of hospitalizations based on what we're seeing, if we continue that trajectory, within the next five, seven, to ten days, i think we're going to see failure of the hospital system in mississippi. hospitals are full from memphis to gulfport, everything is full. if there were, schools coming back, if there were a bus wreck of kids, we would not be able to take care of these kids. we're in a serious situation. when you see federal teams come in, it really needs to open people's eyes to the fact that it is a serious situation.
we're hopeful that, you know, we can get people to wear masks and get vaccinated and stay away from each other, and that this rapid rate of rise that we're seeing will peak or plateau pretty quickly here so we don't get into a situation where there is nowhere to transfer a patient at all. and we have to stop ambulances and some of the things that we just don't want to do as a system. that is our nightmare. we do not want to do that. because we know when we do that, you know, not the covid patients, but all the other patients, heart attacks, strokes, the things we need to take care of that have time-sensitive care issues, we're not going to be able to take care of them. and that's not what we got into health care for. so, you know, i hope people can just understand, it is a very serious situation. i don't want to say dire, and i don't want to say that we have reached the point of failure, but we're definitely headed that
way. >> we're definitely headed that way. that is dr. alan jones, speaking this afternoon at a pull the fire alarm press conference convened at the flagship hospital, the leading medical center in all of mississippi. the university of mississippi medical center. and he's talking of course about that state's hospitals just being swamped with sick people, with covid. the exact quote that got so much attention today, he said, if we continue the trajectory we're on, within the next five to seven to ten days, i think we're going to see failure of the hospital system in mississippi. republican governor tate reeves of mississippi has publicly been playing down the severity of the covid situation in his state. saying, there's no reason to panic. everything is fine. there's no panicking.
that led to headlines like this one around the state, this is from mississippi today, mississippi lives are at risk, our governor is hiding. led to this headline tonight, with mississippi hospitals near calamity, governor reeves leaves state for republican political event. and that's true, he did. but while the state's governor is, you know, otherwise occupied in telling everything is fine, and criticizing the use of masks, and refusing to talk about any -- refusing to talk about vaccines in a way that is designed to get everybody in the state vaccinated, he's saying everything is fine and he's keeping up his regular political travel. but dr. jones said, when federal teams come in, that's a serious situation. what he's talking about there, while the mississippi state government has its own issues,
the federal government of the united states has today answered a call for help from mississippi's hospitals. >> we're in the midst of a very serious situation. i know that you have probably all heard by now that we have been part of a request for some federal assistance. so working with the department of health and through nema, the governor's office, we've made a request, we have, along with a number of other entities, have made a request for federal help. and, you know, we were not sure what that would look like, if even we were able to get any. we are glad that in fact, yes, we have gotten the notification that we will be getting some federal assistance in the way of manpower. what we're planning to do is to deploy the field hospital into the basement of garage "b," and to then utilize these additional
personnel in that facility. as it turns out, we are getting some physicians, nurses, therapists, pharmacists. we're hoping by friday to be able to start seeing patients in that temporary facility. >> we anticipate that we'll see a disaster medical assistance team arrive here in the next day to two days, depending on when the flights come in. we're deploying the state's medical field hospital to our parking garage "b," to have a field hospital where we can use the dmat staff in to take care of patients. >> where are these doctors and medical personnel coming from? as we've heard, it's been hard to find anybody to help you guys out. >> u.s. health and human services. these are federal employees. the best analogy is similar to the national guard.
they have day jobs, but they're also part-time federal employees that can be activated by the federal government and deployed in times of disaster. >> how many people can you treat at this mobile hospital? >> the maximum will be 50. but that will decrease depending on acuity. the higher acuity, the sicker the patients, the fewer the patients we'll be able to treat. >> you mentioned the pediatric hospital. where is the capacity for the pediatric hospital? >> so, our pediatric hospital is full. we have 21 pediatric patients in the hospital today. six in the icu, four on ventilators. definitely the highest number that we've had through the entire pandemic. boarding pediatric patients in our pediatric e.r., i think about ten. so all of our hospitals are full. this asset that is being
deployed potentially will be able to take care of some older teenagers, but we're seeing a number, definitely more than we have ever before, of healthy children that are getting hospitalized with covid. >> four kids on ventilators. ten kids that are boarding in the emergency room waiting for hospital beds. as he said, there are more healthy children getting hospitalized with covid than ever before. the contingency planning they're doing here in real time, and explaining to the press in mississippi is stark stuff. this is end of the line stuff. they're hoping they may be able to put older teenagers into the field hospital they're putting up right now in the parking garage for the university of mississippi medical center. they're hoping they can maybe have the federal disaster teams that are coming in to staff that hospital in the garage, they're
hoping maybe they can also treat older kids, even though it's not designed as a pediatric unit. because they have so many kids hospitalized that they need space to put littler kids in hospital beds, inside the hospital. otherwise, they're out of space in all hospitals in the state, including for little kids who are sick enough with covid to be in the icu and on ventilators. this is not what they're warning might happen, this is today, it's happening right now. the state of mississippi is in trouble. again, this is not warning about what might happen, the hospitals in the state are full, including the pediatric hospitals. and the case numbers are rising every day. 6,000 and 7,000 new cases every day, that means 500 hospitalizations over the next few days. when the flagship hospital in the state announces that every hospital in the state is above capacity, they're five to ten days away from total failure of the hospital in the state, we're in trouble.
total failure of the hospital system. it doesn't mean the hospital's closed, but if you call 911 and you can get yourself an ambulance, that ambulance will be turned away at the hospital. that was the word today, this afternoon, from the university of mississippi medical center, in jackson, in the state capital. today also in mississippi, ellison barber went to ocean springs, mississippi. vaguely near gulfport, on the gulf coast. went there to try to understand what this kind of situation in mississippi means on the units. what it means for doctors and nurses in mississippi right now, who are in the midst of what is a national level crisis. trying to hold back this tidal wave of new very sick patients, as the state exhausts its resources. part of what ellison heard was that the fact that so many young people are getting so much
sicker now is driving a lot of how hard this is on doctors and nurses. here's the director of critical care at singing river health in ocean springs, mississippi. >> there are often family members who want to talk to us one of the most difficult things is discussing end of life, and worsening status with family members of these young patients. so whereas before, we were talking to children of these elderly people who were often prepared in their minds for their eventual demise. now we're talking to parents. we're talking to young spouses. and they tell us that this patient has a 10-year-old or a 15-year-old. and it breaks our hearts. you know, when you start talking about end of life with people
like this, in this age group, it's very difficult. it's very difficult. and the reactions we get are, you know, some people are just dumbstruck, some are angry. it just varies. and then we have to go and take care of these patients at the bedside. a doctor was putting a chest tube in one patient, and then going to the next tube and putting a chest tube in the next patient. then you're getting more calls from the e.r. about more people rolling in. it's just constant. i wish our governor would step up and say very clearly how important the vaccines are. i think that everyone in every way they can should come out and say it, so people can be encouraged to go and get vaccinated. because otherwise, you know, until it hits you, you don't
realize what it means. when your own loved one is dying, that's when it means something. >> that is the head of critical care at singing river health in ocean springs, mississippi, by gulfport, mississippi. he went on in the interview to say that one of the challenges they're growing into now is nurses who are working so hard and working double-time, triple-time, nurses finding that they can't keep working in the icu. they can't take it anymore, part of it is because of the frustration that almost all of the suffering could be prevented if people just got vaccinated. frustration is driving nurses to leave critical care at this critical time. also just with these relentlessly increasing numbers of very sick people, they're also exhausted and they can't go on. >> we have a solution by getting the vaccine, and wearing our
masks and doing what we need to do. nurses are so tired. it's getting to the point where we need help. we've been helping as much as we can, and we need help from, you know, our community. i respect everybody's choice to get vaccinated or not, but it's just going to continue to get worse. and it's going to get to the point where it affects our kids. you know, we're -- that's my biggest fear. it's going to keep mutating, and we've done everything in our power to stop it, and, you know, eradicate diseases like vaccine are supposed to do. if it keeps going like this, it could get to the point where it hurts our kids. we already have kids on vents in different parts of the state. if, you know, we won't be able to say that we did everything to protect our children. you know, the people that would take a bullet for their kid, it
could be as easy as taking a shot. it does wear on you to feel like it's not coming to an end any time soon. >> are you surprised it's still this bad after a year and a half? >> yeah, yeah. >> how do you find the strength to do this again and again and again? >> really, i don't have any strength left. honestly, i've given so much, i can't keep going. that's why i decided to move to a different department, because it's affected me in ways that i never thought possible. and it is not going to get better, and i have to protect myself and my family and my sanity. because if, you know, people aren't doing what they need to
do to protect us, and, you know, we're human. we're not robots, we're not machines. we can't continue to do this forever. at this capacity. >> you're a nurse on the floor, but you're going to leave? >> no, i can't, i can't do this anymore. i've seen more death than i thought i'd see in my entire life. i've held more hands of patients in their last moments, when their families couldn't be by their side. more than i ever thought would happen. i know this is the icu, and people pass. it shouldn't be to this level, though. when i chose to be an icu nurse, i knew this is what i signed up for. but i don't think anybody really realized that this was going to be part of the deal, that this was going to be this exhausting. in every way.
it's -- it's just heartbreaking, in every way. i don't even know how to describe it. it's overwhelming. and i just -- i can't. i can't even really speak about it anymore. i'm so exhausted from the mental strain of the process of it. just, it's all you hear. it's all you see. you know, it's this whole debate about vaccines, then coming in here and you wake up every morning. you know that it's just going to be the same devastation as the day before. you know, there's not really --
it's always a win when somebody leaves and goes home. but they never go home the same way that they came in. >> a nurse at singing river health in ocean springs, mississippi, speaking with ellison barber today, from their critical care unit. which is overwhelmed, just like every other critical care unit in every hospital, full stop, in the state of mississippi is right now. the state health officer in mississippi warned, with 6,000 and 7,000 new cases being reported every day, this will translate into over 500 new hospitalizations in the coming days. we have zero hospital beds, and more than 200 patients waiting in emergency rooms to get a hospital room. that has led to a new hospital unit in jackson to be set up in the parking garage at the university of mississippi medical center. with a disaster team coming in
from the federal government, and hospitals are totally full. in gulfport, as you saw, nurses are too heartbroken, frustrated, and exhausted to keep working in the icu. they just can't do it anymore. i know we've been talking about covid for a long time now, but this is new, what we're seeing now. the covid disaster unfolding particularly in the south, definitely in states with low vaccination rates. it is getting to be a next level disaster. we didn't previously see states talking about entire hospital systems failing statewide. mississippi thinks it's there within the next five to ten days. you can see the strain in the states if you look closely enough. this is a bad enough situation in the states now that it's also
going to be a new test, i think, of the federal government's ability, the biden administration's ability to target literally disaster resources to places in our country where the health system fails. because that is starting in some states, and you're seeing that with the deployment of this disaster management team to jackson, mississippi. this is very stark stuff. this is not like it has been. it's time to start thinking about what we all can do to support health workers in our lives. the first thing they'll tell you is to get vaccinated and get everybody in your life vaccinated. beyond that, doctors and nurses and health care workers, they're likely to need help from the rest of us, given this superhuman thing we're asking them to do. now piled on top of it, the additional frustration and heartbreak that this could be
preventable if there were more people getting vaccines. it's just a serious thing. there's other news, it's one of those nights where there's a lot going on into the evening hours. we had to change your rundown over the course of the production day. first of all, you should know that a filibuster is under way as we speak, a talking filibuster, in texas. when you're filibustering in texas, you can't eat, drink, or lean against anything while you're holding the floor. that is being led right now by carol alvarado. she is leading democrats in the ongoing filibuster right now. this is in the texas state senate, where they're trying to stop the republican voting restriction bill. you remember texas democrats from the house fled the state capital to deny a quorum in the
house. the texas house democrats are facing arrest warrants sworn out for them last night. we'll be checking in with one of them tonight. to find out there plan and how they are planning to cope with the arrests. but this filibuster is under way in austin. it looks like it may go at least overnight. tonight, as the department of homeland security is warning about the renewed threat of political violence from trump supporters, who believe his claims that there was fraud in the election, and that he will be re-instated later this month. part of the trump election fraud fantasy. tonight, we're getting the first reporting on what happened behind closed doors today in washington, when a former u.s. attorney, b.j. pak, testified in a closed door session about how trump used the justice department to try to invalidate election results in multiple states to try to stay in power.
despite, you know, democracy. pak resigned as u.s. attorney in georgia in early january under very mysterious circumstances while trump was trying to make georgia the first state to nullify its election results after biden won there. the b.j. pak resignation is under investigation by congressional committees and the office of inspector general at the justice department. the senate judiciary committee investigation has led some senators to suggest that the prospect of criminal charges is real here. pak's testimony was behind closed doors. but katie benner is here from "the new york times," she was the first national reporter today to report on what he said. speaking with katie in just a moment. and tonight, we're getting late word that a conservative trump-appointed federal judge in d.c. has just ruled that a multi-billion lawsuit against
rudy giuliani, sidney powell, and mike lindell will be allowed to proceed. this is from the company dominion, who was at the center of the election conspiracy theories. with giuliani having his law license suspended now and with this huge lawsuit now proceeding against them, former president trump's lawyers and his surrogates that have been pushing these trash theories for him are facing increasingly serious consequences for doing so. even as the department of homeland security warns that the consequences for the country might be more political violence this month. for president trump, of course, there's been no negative consequences whatsoever for stoking any of this stuff. but people working on his behalf have seen things get more dire.
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but i'm just as they are. botox® cosmetic is fda approved to temporarily make frown lines, crow's feet and forehead lines look better. the effects of botox® cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness may be a sign of a life-threatening condition. do not receive botox® cosmetic if you have a skin infection. side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow, eyelid drooping, and eyelid swelling. tell your doctor about your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications including botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. see for yourself at botoxcosmetic.com in the fight over voting rights, things have taken a dramatic and personal turn in the state of texas. last night the texas house
speaker signed arrest warrants for 52 democrats in the state legislature, who have been camped out in d.c. for the last few weeks in an effort to deny republicans in the quorum they need to pass an anti-voting rights bill. in austin, the texas house sergeant at arms went door to door at the state capitol looking for those democrats so they can arrest them. right now, this is live footage of carol alvarado leading a filibuster in the texas senate. the senate has old-school filibuster rules where you can't eat or drink or lean on anything while you have the floor during filibuster. the senator is allowed to take questions from her fellow legislators. she has been at it for more than two hours.
we don't know how long it will go. we talked to her before the filibuster started. she said, this is a tool we have at our disposal and i'm going to use it. house democrats are doing their part. everyone is doing their part. this is my contribution. joining us now, trey martinez-fisher, who led the effort in d.c. in an attempt to stop the bill. he's still in d.c. this evening. thank you for being with us. >> thank you, rachel. >> so, we're watching all these moving parts. we've seen a handful of democrats leave d.c. and go back to texas. we've seen these arrest warrants sworn out by the republican house speaker, renouncing this effort. a dramatic effort to slow down the bill in the senate. give us the lay of the land and tell us how you're doing, and
how you see all these moving parts. >> well, in a word, just texans are fed up. you see what is happening in the senate, we have been doing this for about a month now in the texas house. we have now have warrants out for our arrests. that will not detur us. that will only give us more resolve, and we'll continue to fight. and you'll also see things like mayors and judges suing the governor because he will not protect them and let local officials provide public health. texas is on the brink. the only way we know how to demonstrate our disappointment is to have this sort of disobedience, to walk out of the chamber, file lawsuits, and push back. we hope the country is watching and they know that you can only push us so much in the state of texas, we're going to fight back and protect our rights. >> of course, it's not an
accident that when you all left texas, you came to washington, d.c. we've talked about the effort to turn this crisis in texas into an incentive, impetus, catalyst in washington to stop people everywhere from taking voting rights away. last night, we did have some development in that front. when it was close to 4:00 a.m., the senate finished up its work. they did one last thing before they went on recess. they took a procedural vote that sets up a voting rights vote as the first thing they will do when they come back, just after labor day. that's not the same thing as passing a voting rights bill. but i have to ask, is that encouraging to you? >> absolutely.
we woke up to a 4:00 a.m. email, telling us that we're going to counsel the meeting, she's going to be flying back home. but we were hoping to be there in the senate when they took this vote. it happened at 4:00 a.m. it's important to note that it was blocked by senator ted cruz of texas. but we're heartened and encouraged by the fact that senator schumer said the first item they'll take up will be the voting rights bill or be the for the people act. it's so important that we make sure to be very vocal, that we do not let our guard down, and we continue to fight not only for this bill, but to make it very clear, if republicans don't want to be bipartisan or pragmatic, we're not going to
let a rule or a tradition get in the u.s. senate get in our way of our right to vote. and we need the senate to act just like senator schumer has said. >> representative, thank you for keeping us apprised. hope to have you back soon. >> thank you. >> all right. much more news to get to here tonight. stay with us. do you have a life insurance policy you no longer need? now you can sell your policy, even a term policy, for an immediate cash payment. call coventry direct to learn more. we thought we had planned carefully for our retirement. but we quickly realized that we needed a way to supplement our income. our friends sold their policy to help pay for their medical bills and that got me thinking. maybe selling our policy could help with our retirement. i'm skeptical, so i did some research and called coventry
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♪♪ i'm chi lan, i am a mom, and a real estate agent. after having a kid, everything that you used to do for yourself goes out the window. the lines that i was seeing in my forehead were getting deeper than i was used to them being. and i realized, you know, what i can focus again on myself. so, what do you see when you look at yourself? i see someone who is growing and changing, who loves and is loved. botox® cosmetic is fda approved
to temporarily make frown lines, crow's feet and forehead lines look better. the effects of botox® cosmetic may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness may be a sign of a life-threatening condition. do not receive botox® cosmetic if you have a skin infection. side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow, eyelid drooping, and eyelid swelling. tell your doctor about your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications including botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. see for yourself at botoxcosmetic.com today we got a few more answers to a mystery that has been bothering me since the beginning of this year. january 4th, the u.s. attorney for the northern district of georgia, b.j. pak, suddenly resigned. citing unforseen circumstances as his reason for leaving. the timing of that resignation
has bugged me ever since. like a mosquito buzzing around my bedroom at night. i can't sleep. i'm so annoyed. i need to know. here's the u.s. attorney in georgia, one of the pivotal states in the 2020 election, resigns january 4th. right after "the washington post" published audio of the call that trump was pressuring georgia election officials to overturn the election and proclaim him the win wither. it was the day after that which he resigned. two days before the january 6th attack on the u.s. capitol by trump supporters. a day before the u.s. senate runoffs that would decide control of the u.s. senate. he resigns in the middle of all of that, and it's for unforeseen circumstances and that's it? within a week of b.j. pak resigning, "the wall street journal" reported that he was forced to resign by the white house. but the nature of the
circumstances, what it was supposed to accomplish, has always remained murky. katie benner reporting that pak's resignation was preceded with a contentious meeting in the oval office, with jeffrey rosen and jeff clark, a trump guy who was trying to cast doubt on the election results along with trump, they fought it out. they argued over which should lead the justice department, whether rosen should stay the attorney general, or whether trump should replace him with this jeff clark guy. whether the justice department should look into claim ans that the election was stolen. going into that meeting, several justice department officials were so worried that trump would take rosen out and put clark in
there instead, that they agreed they would all resign if that occurred. very hair-raising stuff. there will be movies made about this someday. but the reporting about that meeting suggested that when the dust settled and the attorney general was not replaced, rosen stayed in his position, one senior official wrote at the time, it sounds like the cause of justice has won. but something else happened after that meeting. which doesn't, still, to this day, make sense to me. we have these documents that were recently released by the house oversight committee, showing after that meeting was over, and everybody is like, did justice succeed, or is clark taking over? while that is being settled, something else happens on a totally separate track.
one participant in that meeting, the deputy attorney general, rich donoghue, sends an email to b.j. pak to call him asap. by 7:41 a.m. the next morning, pak had resigned as u.s. attorney. within a few hours, he was sent an email thanking him for resigning, and calling him a class act for doing so. first of all, why did pak resign, and why did he get this urgent call from the number two official in the justice department? and why after the guy resigned did he get thanked by the number two official in the justice department? when somebody resigns, you thank them for it if they did it at your request. why would he have asked this u.s. attorney to resign? so what happened here?
today, b.j. pak gave his side of the story behind closed doors. katie benner reports that his testimony lasted more than three hours. he told them that his resignation had been prompted by officials warning him that president trump was going to fire him, and resigning would preempt a public dismissal. reported that trump had been dismayed that mr. pak had investigated allegations of fraud and not found any evidence to support those allegations. so pak resigned rather than be publicly fired. it also sort of seems like he resigned at the request of the number two official in the justice department. why would you ask somebody to resign so they could avoid being publicly fired? it just doesn't make sense.
joining us now, katie benner of "the new york times." thank you so much for being here. i know it's kind of a big night. >> thanks for having me. >> let me ask first if i'm asking the right questions. i feel like mr. pak's resignation has been mysterious from the beginning, and potentially important because of its timing. resignations happen for a number of reasons, because you want to spend more time with your family, you can resign in protest, as a favor to somebody, you resign in order to stymie some plot, whether or not you're going to speak out about it. i don't know what category of resignation to put pak's in yet. do you feel like you know? >> i think there's some context you can bring to bear to the resignation. if you look at other trump
officials in the weeks leading up to the january 6th attack, you saw officials who refused to comply with trump, who pushed back on the idea that trump had won, including former attorney general bill barr, they were publicly excoriated by president trump, and they were ripped apart in conservative media, and it was very difficult for them. others spoke off the record saying it was not a fate that anybody wanted, especially if you were still young, and you wanted to get another job. perhaps within the republican party. it was considered a fate that you wanted to avoid. as you laid out, you have a situation where officials go into the oval office late on a sunday, they realize president trump wants somebody in georgia to say the election was fraudulent, he's obsessed with georgia, and he complained it throughout this argument that the officials were having about who would run the justice department.
i'm told in his testimony today, pak said he knew he would either be fired or resign. and rich donaghue was giving him a choice on how to leave, but he was most certainly leaving. >> and when the response was sent, an email that thanked him for resigning and called him a class act for resigning, i feel like the cast that put retroactively on the resignation didn't seem like he was giving him a choice. it seemed like he had suggested to him that this was the right thing to do, or had asked him to do this, essentially as a favor, or something that would have positive consequences. am i reading that wrong? >> no, i think you're probably
reading it correctly. when you look at it from the point of view of the justice department officials, president trump was extremely volatile. they felt they were on the brink at any moment of complete chaos, and mollifying trump is the route they chose. you can debate whether it was the correct thing to do, but it's what they chose to do. part of mollifying trump is getting rid of things that will make him upset. and at that moment, it was getting pak to resign. you could question about whether that was the right thing to do, but that's what they did. >> and once pak does resign, whether it was at the direct
request of officials or whatever it was, there was an effect of it in terms of the georgia plot. the white house then hand-picked another official, they went outside the line of succession, picked somebody else, and installed him there. who presumably they thought would be more amenable to it. to the concerns or less of a burr in the saddle at that point. so mr. pak resigning didn't throw a wrench in the works of the georgia plot. if anything, it seems to have facilitated it. >> it did and it didn't. this is the really interesting twist about the thing you mentioned. you're right, pak was replaced by bobby christine, who was thought to be a close ally of president trump's. but several days after he gets to the office, audio of a meeting that he has with the staff is leaked to the atlanta journal-constitution.
and christine says, i've looked at these cases myself, i'm not seeing fraud. i expected to come in and see a lot of fraud based on things i'm reading and have heard, but i'm finding the same things that b.j. pak found. so people were worried that christine would do some dramatic for trump, but he came in, said nothing, and then this interesting audio leaks out where he says there's no fraud. reiterating what b.j. pak had privately said, what jeffrey rosen had privately said, and bill barr had said publicly and privately. we're not finding the kind of widespread fraud that would impact the results of this election whatsoever. >> last question for you on this. we believe that the department of justice inspector general is looking at mr. pack's
resignation and the circumstances therein as part of his investigation as to what happened with the white house pressuring the justice department around trying to overturn the election results. we've also seen some senators come out of earlier testimony in this ongoing investigation and say that they think that there may be criminal charged implicated here in terms of some of the behavior that they've heard testimony about. the further understanding that we are developing about b.j. pak, do you think that materially impacts the fulton county criminal investigation of trump or the potential inspector general investigation, the seriousness of it? any potential criminal charges? >> sure, based on the reporting that i have coming out of that meeting, it does sound like people who are listening to mr. pak's testimony indeed felt there were bigger questions that needed to be asked about whether or not anybody could be held criminally responsible for the kind of efforts that were being undertaken to basically overturn the results of the election. keep in mind, the idea of criminal charges, criminal case, that is such a slow-moving animal.
this is such a politically charged situation that there is a feeling within justice department it would be better if the inspector general ran his course, fully investigated, and decided whether or not it would be appropriate to make a criminal referral to the justice department. that is a slow process. an ig report usually takes about a year. so i'm not thinking that this is going to result in criminal charges any time soon, if at all. again, this is going to be the most methodical investigation, it's going to be the most careful, because it involves senior former justice department officials and it involves people who are working in the white house, including people who were probably helping president trump try to overturn the results of the election. and that is what these committees are trying to get to the bottom of. it's what they're asking. and the justice department officials who have spoken so far and the justice department in general can only provide so much information. for them to really understand what was going on with trump's efforts to overturn the election
and whether or not there was criminality, criminal behavior, they need to speak to people who are working at the white house, who had the full picture. >> "new york times" justice department reporter katie benner, thank you for your clarity on this as always, i really appreciate it. we've got more ahead tonight, stay with us.
going to release the results of the 2020 census. at least they're going to release the parts of it that tend to make people the most crazy. "the washington post" previewed a slice of that data with this headline that made the hosts at fox news primetime shoot coffee all out their collective noses all at the same time. we are seeing a marked increase in diversity in our country. population growth is driven entirely by people of color. the number of white people declining for the first time in this country's history. that was just a preview earlier this week, again, "the washington post."
tomorrow we will get all the definitive details on how the country and how specific neighborhoods have shifted in terms of race and voting age and other things. state legislatures will use the official data we're getting tomorrow to redraw districts for the next ten years of elections. so tomorrow's data is going to be a really big deal. i know just the person i'm going to want to talk to about all this, the former attorney general of the united states, eric holder, is now chair of the national democratic redistricting committee. he's going to be here live tomorrow night to talk about that data and more. you will not want to miss it. we'll be right back. stay with us. we'll be right bac. stay with us verizon launched the first 5g network and now we want to be the first to give everyone the joy of 5g, by giving every customer a new 5g phone. old customers. new customers new 5g phones when you trade in your old ones. upgrade your phone. upgrade your network.
all right, that is going to do it for us tonight. thank you for being here. you know what tomorrow is? it's friday eve, what? see you again tomorrow night. "way too early" is up next. with covid cases surging, the cdc is changing its guidance to recommend that pregnant women get vaccinated. the fda is also poised to authorize booster shots for people with certain health conditions. the question is, will third doses get approved for everyone else. plus senator joe manchin says he has serious concerns about his party's massive spending. the question is could he derail biden's plan. and jeopardy is set to replace alex trebek with two hosts. the question
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