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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  August 23, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT

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but mother jones dug deeper and found he had done so only twice since taking office. tonight, baby gaetz, mediocre politician, and even lower rent version of your tacky orange idol who didn't even find you worth pardoning, you're pathetic, and you're also the absolute worst. and that's tonight's "reidout." "all in" starts now. >> tonight, on "all in" -- >> the fda has given its full and final approval. the moment you have been waiting for is here. >> a big announcement from the current president, as the last one cowers before an anti-vax crowd. >> i did it. it's good. take the vaccine. but you got -- no, that's okay. that's all right. you got your freedoms. >> tonight, why the pandemic is somehow worse than ever in states like florida. how a failure of leadership helped make it so. and why fda approval of pfizer could change the game with vaccine requirements. >> then, how stephen miller and
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the anti-immigrant zealots in the trump white house helped create the refugee crisis in afghanistan. and what we're learning tonight about the latest alleged maga bomber charged with threatening to use a weapon of mass destruction to blow up washington. "all in" starts right now. >> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. i can't believe i'm about to say this, but here it goes. right now, in the state of florida, as of today, more people are dying per day than at any point in the covid pandemic. just think about that for a minute, as you look at this chart. look at this chart. it's august of 2021. right? wi have been battling this implacable viral foe for nearly 18 months. through incredible human ingenuity, diligent work by scientists and public health workers, we have a variety of safe and effective vaccines, one of which received full approval from the food and drug administration today. we are also the richest country
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in the world. we're sitting on the world's biggest stockpile of vaccine doses. people around the world are desperate for the vaccines that we have. those vaccines are the best tool for fighting this thing that has been ravaging our fellow americans, our fellow humans across the world, and yet this, this. that spike, this is what's happening in florida. seven-day rolling average of fatalities, deaths, exceeds every other previous wave since the start of the pandemic. how? how is this possible? the answer to that question is complicated, of course. the delta variant really is more transmissible. there are a lot of factors. some of it is probably random, honestly, we have seen this a lot. but the key revelatory moment that tells a lot of the story about what's happening in florida didn't happen in florida. it happened in alabama, it
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happened this weekend. let me set the scene for you. the disgraced twice impeached ex-president who is nothing if not a junky for the adoration of fawning crowds is hold agbig rally on a farm north of birmingham. the heart of trump country, friendly group coming out to see donald trump in front of a big alabama crowd. and before them, up on stage, he does something i have to say, somewhat unexpected. he endorses the vaccines. but the way that he does it and what happens after is the real story. we're going to play it for you now and try to take it all in. >> you know what, i believe totally in your freedoms. i do. you have to do what you have to do. but i recommend taking the vaccines. i did it. it's good. take the vaccines. but you got -- no, that's okay. that's all right. you got your freedoms. but i happen to take the vaccine. if it doesn't work, you'll be the first to know. okay. >> okay, so what just happened
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there? he said essentially i got the vaccine, you should too. take the vaccines, and someone, maybe a few people, maybe a few dozen people in the crowd, booed him. they booed donald trump for recommending the vaccine. and you can see the panic in his eyes as he makes a hasty retreat. you have your freedoms. and you can hear him screwing up what tiny bit of courage he has before he enters the riff, knowing this is probably going to happen, looking as terrified as a 9-year-old on a high diving board trying to get himself to jump. this, mr. braggadocios, mr. donald trump, everything is great, and bold, and beautiful, and i'm the best. and he's terrified of what he's going to say because donald trump fears that crowd. he knows some of them hate vaccines, and he fears they will reject even him, their leader, if he says the simple obvious truth, which is they should get vaccinated. and then, his worst fears are proven in that moment, and so he retreats like a coward. >> you know what, i believe totally in your freedoms.
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i do. you have to do what you have to do. but i recommend taking the vaccines. i did it. it's good. take the vaccines. but you got -- no, that's okay. that's all right. you got your freedoms. but i happened to take the vaccine. if it doesn't work, you'll be the first to know, okay. >> but, but, don't beat up on me. i'm still your guy. you know, whatever. you got your freedoms. maybe more, i don't know. think about this. there were thousands of people at that alabama farm on saturday night. right now, 56% of the eligible population of alabama has received at least one vaccine dose. that's not high enough, but that is a majority of the people who can get it. so just i would bet a fair number of people at that rally were vaccinated. and again, you can see the crowd right behind him. it's not like tens of thousands of people booed in unison when he said get the vaccines. he got heckled a little bit. and those people, the kind of people who not only show up to a donald trump rally in alabama in
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august outside, but boo donald trump when he says you should get the vaccine, they are statistically, i think, a tiny portion of the population of this country. they were a tiny portion of the crowd. and yet, they have effectively seized veto power over american public health policy. that is the story when you look at this chart of covid deaths in florida. at least in part, those kinds of people, the ones who show up at school board meetings and scream at public health officials and follow them to their car and say everyone is going to know your name, they are not the majority of our fellow americans. of all political persuasions, they're not. these are the people driving public health policy in the republican party, one of only two viable political coalitions that govern this country. and that public health policy is getting people killed. in fact, no less a figure than radio host alex jones who is the personification of destructive,
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fringe, conspiracy madness, guy who believes sandy hook and 9/11 were inside jobs, that guy tore into donald trump for having the temerity to recommend the vaccine. >> shame onnia, trump. seriously, hey, if you don't have the good sense to save yourself, your political career, that's okay. at least you're going get good republicans elected and we like you. but my god. maybe you're not that bright. maybe trump is actually a dumb ass. >> that guy, a ridiculous disgraced carnival barker, that guy, think about this, donald trump is scared of criticism from that guy, from alex jones. and so in his own way, alex jones has some veto power over public health policy in the republican party. alex jones and the fringe far-right people who booed trump at the alabama rally this weekend. so that is how you get a situation like what is happening in florida. republican governor ron desantis wants the votes and support of those hecklers. and he has treated the pandemic
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largely like a liberal bogeyman. last year, he lifted all covid restrictions on businesses way back in september, well before the vaccines were available. now, with the state's vaccine rate lagging behind other large states, about 59% of eligible population fully vaccinated, this disaster is raging. it's just objectively a terrible situation. hundreds of floridians dying, and governor desantis is not taking care of the citizens he represents. instead, he has been busying himself with nonsense, like shadow boxing with joe biden over the border and assuring people that florida's hospitals are, quote, open for business, which what the heck, open for business? he has displayed not one iota of the kind of normal seriousness an elected official of either party should when presiding over a disaster, a tragedy, a mass death event. he has shown he is capable of it. this is not a dumb guy. earlier this summer, when that condo tower collapsed near miami
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beach, you remember that, governor desantis played the role of completely normal official overseeing a terrible tragedy. he mourned the dead. provided information, pledged to find out what happened, met with president joe biden. they had an event together that was completely amicable and serious. ron desantis can do that. he's capable of it. he just will not do it with the pandemic. because if he does, if he admits this is a crisis for his state right now, more people dying than at any point, that his state needs to take some necessary steps to save their people, that they need to push vaccinations more strenuously, he will face the same backlash from the kinds of folks who heckled donald trump, and if he does that, he fears his political future in the republican party is over. so that's where we are. all the posturing, the ridiculous fights about mask mandates in schools chrk i think the evidence shows tangibly make floridians and florida people
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less safe, but those fights serve a vital function for governor desantis, an expressive function. they are his wink and nod to hecklers in the crowd showing he's on their side, and you cannot defeat the virus if you cater to those hecklers. again, we're not talking about a majority. look at the numbers. this is new polling we have from nbc. it shows the populations, the sort of subdemographics least enthusiastic about getting vaccinates are the ones you would expect, trump supporters and people in rural areas. but even among those populations, which are the least supportive, still a 50/50 proposition. it's not like they overwhelmingly reject the vaccine, and even the hardest core trump people, those who tell pollsters they're republicans and sort of are trump people first, as opposed to republican party members first, it's a smart division by the pollsters here, they're at 47% vaccinated or planning to get it as soon as they can. there are millions of people who are conservative who like donald trump who own maga gear, voted
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for donald trump, watch fox news, and got vaccinated. who want to get vaccinated, who think other people should get vaccinated. i think that a majority on the right, we're talking about a small fraction of americans who are driving this. and honestly, they are a huge part of why we are where we are. they are a huge reason this chart looks the way it does, because ultimately, those yahoos who booed the former president when he meekly almost apologetically said, hey, safe and effective vaccine could prevent you from dying a horrible disease. i got it because i don't want to die, they're the ones who have managed to seize a veto on covid policy for a huge part of america. kristen soltis anderson is the cofounder of echelon insights. jeff charlotte is a contributor editor of vanity fair. >> kristen, the polling on all
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of this stuff is complicated. you can slice it and dice it a bunch of ways and it's little bit of a moving target, but i think when you talk about vaccines, it is still a majority -- like a healthy majority of americans either got the vaccine or want the vaccine, and that's thought even that controversial. it's really a subset of one part of americans. and it extends across all political ideologies, but particularly strong in this part of the republican party that is kind of an outlier. >> very grateful that you have shown all of that data about a majority of trump voters, for instance, being vaccinated. because i think so often the conversation around vaccines and our politics conflates people's views on the vaccines itself with policies like vaccine mandates. so you can look at the modern gop, and you can see about a third of republicans, maybe a little less, outright say i'm not getting vaccinated. i don't want it, no thank you. but most are pretty -- they have either said they have gotten it
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themselves, they're open to it, they don't think it's a bad idea. where you do lose them is on mandates. part of that is early on in the pandemic, you had this crisis moment where people's idealogical priors got set aside. i liken it almost to how immediately after 9/11, a lot of people set their idealogical priors aside. on september 10th, a lot of people might have said i don't think we should invade a foreign country who on september 11th felt different. early in covid, a lot of republicans said i'm fine with lockdown, i'm fine with masks. as you went from 15 days to 15 weeks to 15 months, that atrophies. so you you have a lot of republicans who are interested in protecting themselves but not interested in government telling them what they have to do. >> i think it's important, thougherse because there's a few different segments. there's an opposition to mandates and requirements, and even that, again, we should be clear, there's a lot of republicans who support those.
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>> yes. >> this is not like some overwhelming crazy 90/10 issue. what has festered, and this is the problem in a numerical sense. if we want to stamp out the virus, and we have the vaccines to do it because god bless america, we're sitting on tens of millions of venes, you need thresholds of compliance and of vaccination that are hard to get with this hard core crew. and jeff, i feel like one of the things we saw, and you know, not to get too biblical here, but i know you studied religion. there's a little bit of, like, give us barabas moment in front of that crowd with trump looking like pilot, where it's like, i don't know. what do you want? you want the vaccines, you don't want the vaccines? he's catering to the crowd. he's not telling them. this stuff is not coming from him. it's coming from somewhere else. >> yeah, i think that's such an important point. while we focus on trump, on desantis, on greg abbott, we focus on these villains, we have
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to recognize that this kind of anti-vaccination hysteria has deep historical roots in the right. it goes back to the 19th century where you start encountering terms like medical tyranny, medical liberty, natural immunity, and it's conflated with whiteness. the idea that white people somehow through their good genes, very good genes as trump would put it, have that immunity. so trump, desantis, abbott, all these folks are pulling on a right-wing populist and religious thread in american life, and pulling it horribly into the present. they didn't invent it, they exploited it. >> and here's where the rubber hits the road, kristen, when you think about these different factions. what i have observed in republican politicians and desantis is an example, and abbott, too, was it wasn't they were going around being anti-vax. they were nominally pro-vaccine. they said take it. but they weren't really putting their back into it.
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like y know what it looks like when ron desantis wants to ride an issue. i have seen it. i know what it looks like when greg abbott wants to ride an issue. i have seen that. this is not an issue they wanted to ride. it wasn't like, they weren't doing a bunch of events. they weren't showing on the cameras, they weren't going on fox news, and it was because within their faction, there was this division that they would rather avoid than confront. >> i disagree with you a little bit on that. desantis actually took blowback early on in the pandemic because he had set up a bunch of vaccination stations at publix, a very popular grocery store in my home state of florida. he focused heavily on seniors and got flack because originally the guidelines said, wait, you're not necessarily supposed to do it by age. you're supposed to look at all these categories. i push back on this idea, even with sarah huckabee sanders just a few weeks ago, she's running for the governor's race in arkansas, she puts on an op-ed saying please get this vaccine. i would push back on the idea
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theseroomen politicians have not been pushing the vaccine. >> i disagree, and i disagree for this reason. it me, it's a difference between being on the record and deciding it's something you want to say. we have seen republican politicians, phil scott in vermont, do the thing where they really go out day after day to make sure that their state is vaccinated. there are republican governors who have done that. i think mike dewine has done it to a certain extent, but i think the veto power of the heckler, the heckler's veto, jeff, that we saw from that crowd, it cows everyone. that is the thing. they are scared of those people. they do not want to get cross wise of them. >> that's the tendency of today's republican party. when we look at anti-vaccination sentiment and its roots in qanon, qanon which already had this deep fear of big pharma, this idea that elites were harvesting strange substances and trying to put it in their bodies or who knows what, these
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conspiracy theories. qanon is a fringe movement, a fringe movement that we know at this point in many ways drives the republican party. what you're saying resonates with me. i'm a vermonter, not a republican, but i appreciate my governor phil scott for giving me the best vaccination defense in the nation. not listening to qanon, not listening to that single heckler in the crowd. >> kristen soltis anderson, jeff charlotte, that was great. thank you both. >> thank you. tonight, the pfizer vaccine becomes the first covid shot to get full fda approval. now this might not sound like that big of a deal, millions of shots have been dwiblted, after all, people have been getting it for the past nine months, so what changes today? it could be a crucial turning point in the fight against the disease. i'm going to explain why right after this break. don't go anywhere. ♪♪
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we finally got it. today, the food and drug administration granted pfizer full approval for its coronavirus vaccine for people 16 and up. the past nine months, the pfizer vaccine has been distributed under what's called an emergency use authorization, something granted in public health emergencies like a pandemic. now, more than 200 million doses of that vaccine, the pfizer vaccine, have been administered, shots in arms. now, with more time and data, the fda is giving the vaccine the strongest endorsement a drug can get. immediately following this
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announcement, the pentagon moved to require all military service members be vaccinated. that's a blanket requirement. also, new york city public schools, the largest school district in the country, requiring shots for basically all staff in its schools. not just teachers. every adult in that building. and the question now is with this full approval, will it pave the way for further vaccine requirements and will it convince more people to get vaccinated? dr. guwanda has been nominated to lead global health development. she's also a staff writer for the new yorker, and dr. julie morita is executive vice president of robert wood johnson foundation. formerly served as a commissioner for chicago's department of public health. together, they both served on president biden's transition advisory board, and they both join me now. doctor, let me start with you on the kind of, i just sort of technical question here, you know, you never want to be the
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kind of guy at the bar just being like, oh, what's the matter with these people? why don't they approve it? but i felt a little bit that way about the fda process, like it does seem a little weird, there was this emergency use authorization. there's literally hundreds of millions of shots going into arms. like, what's the difference why now, what does this mean? >> great question, chris. i think you're not alone in asking this question at this point. the emergency use authorization is something that's only used in a time of a public health emergency like a pandemic, as you pointed out. and in that situation, the fda will review the vaccines and not look at them for as long a period of time before they actually approve them for use. so what's different about the licenser that happened today is the vaccines have been studied for six months, which allowed them to look at more safety data, more efficacy data from that period of time.
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in addition to that, the fda actually looked at the manufacturing processes and chemistry aspects of the vaccine that weren't looked at in as great of detail when the emergency use authorization was made. the key thing from my perspective is by issuing the emergency use authorization, we have saved lives. the use of the vaccine for that approval as a result of that approval has really led to many, many lives being saved. >> doctor, there's a question, if you hang out in let's say vaccine skeptical social media spaces, which i sometimes do just sort of out of curiosity, you will see that it is a fairly frequent talking point, this idea about emergency use authorization, like it does get invoked. you can hear it from people who are a little vaccine hesitant. i guess there's a real question and i think it's an open empirical question about whether it matters. in terms of people's hesitancy and whether there's some marginal set of people that wouldn't have gotten it before and will now. >> i would agree.
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the effect on people's changing people's minds will be modest. there probably are some people who had been waiting for approval before jumping in. but for many people, it was more of an argument to make. and the goalposts often move in these debates, so once you have met the one goalpost, someone will push -- they'll just move it further. the really big deal is what you outlined which is many places now that it's approved will feel much more comfortable at an institutional level requiring vaccination, especially in places where people are at a lot of risk. such as in public venues or in health care and hospital settings. my own hospital, because we're holding off on mandating vaccination for everybody until approval, and that is now coming out and will be under way. >> it's interesting you note that because this has been a surprising thing for me to learn. we had dr. collins who runs
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national institutes of health, and they have a functional hospital there, thousands of employees. he made the point at the national institutes of health, they couldn't or weren't requiring the vaccine for employees in their hospital until it reached full approval. again, i found the logic there like a little tenuous to be totally honest. but how much of a difference does it make? maybe it's just a kind of bureaucratic or institutional comfort thing, but it sounds like this could be a big deal for employers. public institutions, and the like. >> yeah, chris, there was a little grayness regarding whether or not having a licensure would be required before mandates could occur. although the equal employment opportunity commission had weighed in to say that mandates could occur as long as reasonable accommodations were made for people with disabilities or religious reasons. there was a reluctance to issue
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mandates. i think we'll see in the coming days and weeks increasing numbers of mandates because we know that mandates actually are highly effective in getting people vaccinated. we have years and years of experience with childhood vaccines as well as health care worker vaccination with influenza vaccine, hepatitis b vaccines and measles vaccines and they're incredibly effective in getting higherates of coverage and protection within our communities. >> yeah, i always think about someone i know close to me, doctor, who at some point was required to get a flu vaccine for the work that she was doing. and that was a thing that, i was like, oh, huh, and i knew the flu vaccine was out there, i figured it was effective. i never was a flu vaccine person until that moment when it hit home to me where this is really important, and it did have an effect, i think, in not just in that individual but in a broader kind of social expectation on that specific vaccine. >> well, so this has been a common part of public health, to
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go to schools, in order to prevent outbreaks of everything from diphtheria to whooping cough, we had effective vaccine regimens that would never have worked without some basic requirements in order to get the levels up high enough that you could eliminate these diseases. we have seen measles come back because of weakening in those categories. and this is a disease that is killing people in nursing homes, hospitals, who are at high risk even when vaccinated because of their immune resistance. so there are settings where this is going to be very important. >> yeah, it's going to be really interesting to watch. we have new york city public schools today, the pentagon in the next few weeks and what happens to the daily numbers because we have realtime data. the doctor has a great piece about public health and mortality and life expectancy in new york that you should check out, thank you both.
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>> as thousands more flee afghanistan each day, there's been a continued scrutiny over the hobbled evacuation of afghan citizens who have helped the u.s. military in the last 20 years, who should have protection under a special visa process. according to one former trump white house official, there's something about the story we're missing. and this goes back to the trump administration and its former immigration adviser, stephen miller. olivia troye is here to tell us what she knows, ahead. with the oreo shake ♪ ♪ get some whipped cream on the top too ♪ ♪ two straws, one check, girl, i got you ♪ ♪ bougie like natty in the styrofoam ♪ ♪ squeak-squeakin' in the truck bed all the way home ♪ ♪ some alabama-jamma, she my dixieland delight ♪ ♪ ayy, that's how we do, ♪ ♪ how we do, fancy like, oh ♪
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a little preparation will make you and your family safer in an emergency. a week's worth of food and water, radio, flashlight, batteries and first aid kit are a good start to learn more, visit last thursday, 49-year-old floyd ray roseberry drove from north carolina to washington, d.c. and parked his black chevrolet pickup truck on the sidewalk outside the library of congress. that's right near the u.s. capitol and the supreme court. he went on a tirade about a coming revolution. he said he was a patriot. he threw money out of the window of his truck at one point, demanded to speak with president joe biden or he would blow up
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2 1/2 city blocks with an explosive device. congressional offices and nearby homes were evacuated amid a tense back and forth negotiation between the man and law enforcement. and after about five hours of that, he eventually surrendered peacefully, so good news there. now, at first, and i was on vacation at this point, so sort of monitoring the story in the periphery, police said no bomb was found in the truck, but possible bomb making materials were collected, which is vague, but i kind of came away from the story thinking this was like someone sticking up a bank with a note and a finger in their pocket, no actual gun, but no, that's not it. it's quite a bit more serious than that. in fact, according to charging documents, he had threatened to use a weapon of mass destruction against a person and property within the united states, in a video from that morning, he was holding an old metal can that appeared to have been fashioned into an explosive device. you can see it here in this image. and after roseberry's arrest,
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the can was recovered in the front seat of the truck. it was old and rusted. it had approximately 1 to 2 inches of an unknown powder in the bottom of it, a fabricated trigger was attached to the top of the can. so this isn't just about a bomb threat and a guy who has a beef with government. i mean, it looks like as far as we know, he had materials in his cars that could be used to make explosives. maybe he tried to make one and it just didn't work. this is, of course, the monster that the trump administration created over the last four years and particularly in the wake of the election. facebook in a livestream that took place before and during the stand-off, this man ranted about, youerant surprised to learn, election conspiracy saying once biden is out of office, democrats sitting in the jailhouse, our president will be donald trump, and he went on about the lack of access to health care, while claiming it all goes to immigrants and afghan refugees. my wife goes to the doctor, she has cancer, and they told her
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they wouldn't cover it anymore because it's cosmetic. where's your insurance. you keep letting all these illegal mexicans, these illegal immigrants from afghanistan, you're giving it to them. you're giving it to them. that rant is essentially indistinguishable from what you can hear at a trump rally or at fox news night in and night out and any number of right-wing websites if you go on tght now. theoric. it's deeper than that. it's been operationalized in our government. which is a huge part of the story of why the air lift out of afghanistan has been so chaotic and fraught. it is in part because people like stephen miller, whose views on immigration are shared apparently by the would-be
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bomber, wanted it that way. just a moment i'll talk to someone who worked in the trump administration and was in the room when stephen miller turned racist hysteria into the u.s. policy that helped create this chaos. that's right after this. ash you. loaded with b vitamins... ...and other key essential nutrients...'s a tasty way to conquer your day. try centrum multi gummies. now with a new look. introducing fidelity income planning. we look at how much you've saved, how much you'll need, and build a straightforward plan to generate income, even when you're not working. a plan that gives you the chance to grow your savings and create cash flow that lasts. along the way, we'll give you ways to be tax efficient. and you can start, stop or adjust your plan at any time without the unnecessary fees. talk to us today, so we can help you go from living. ♪ ♪
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because better protection costs a whole lot less. you're in good hands with allstate. click or call for a lower auto rate today. with schizophrenia, i see progress differently. it's in the small things i look forward to. with the people i want to share it with. it's doing my best to follow through. it's the little signs that make me feel like things could be better. signs that make it feel like real progress. caplyta effectively treats adults with schizophrenia. and it's just one pill, once a day, with no titration. caplyta can cause serious side effects. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor about fever, stiff muscles or confusion, which can mean a life-threatening reaction or uncontrollable muscle movements which may be permanent. dizziness upon standing, falls, and impaired judgment may occur. most common side effects include sleepiness and dry mouth. high cholesterol and weight gain may occur, as can high blood sugar which may be fatal.
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in clinical trials, weight, cholesterol and blood sugar changes were similar to placebo. if you're affected by schizophrenia, ask your doctor about caplyta from intra-cellular therapies. before he was a senior policy adviser in the trump white house, stephen miller appeared on steve bannon's right-wing radio show to warn how bipartisan immigration bills would decimate the united states. and miller has never really hid the fact his goal is to curb all immigration to this country, including totally legal channels. he's been clear about that. in 2018, he was pressuring the department of homeland security to limit legal immigrants from obtaining green cards. he's obviously now out of the white house, but that has not stopped him. last week, he tweeted, it's become increasingly clear biden and his radical deputies will use afghanistan as a pretex for doing to america what angela merkel did to germany. he's referring to the decision to welcome hundreds of thousands
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of migrants back in 2015. people in desperate straits fleeing death and destruction of war. he's arguing this country should not be accepting legal refugees from a crisis we helped create with 20 years of war, while also dog whistling for the white nationalist great replacement theory which posits that immigrants are shaping to reshape america's very image, that democrats are importing them to replace white people. we know this hard line anti-immigrant stance was miller's near singular focus in the white house. now we're seeing the fall pup out unfold in afghanistan. olivia troye served as a top aide to mike pence where she saw the government's ability to bring afghan translators and other refugees to this country hollowed out under miller's watch. quote, there were cabinet meetings about this where stephen miller would peddle his racist hysteria about afghanistan and iraq. they would undermine anyone who worked on solving the special immigrant visa issue by devastating the system at department of homeland security
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and the state department. and olivia troye joins me now. a lot of people read what you had to write, had to say over the weekend with a lot of interest, including myself, and in doing some reporting on this as i had sort of come back into this story, the special immigrant -- the special visa has been a huge obstacle here. can you explain what we're talking about and why it's so central to understanding the story? >> yeah, no, it's critical because what it is is it's a special program set aside for people that really assist us when we're on the ground, you know, translators, interpreters, or people who work for the u.s. government directly, whether it's the embassy or other operations, military intelligence community, and so it's a special set of visas set aside for people that work with us in these programs. there's also other siv programs that also assist with people who are helping with programs that are yew funded on the ground, so this is a case, there's also the
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p-2 program that you'll hear about, which we'll talk about, about refugees which also falls under that, which is also assisting in other lanes, when sivs, that program comes to an end like it did in iraq, they qualify for p-2s. biden actually just institu havd the u.s., been allies, but also have credible fear of reprisal when now the government has fallen to the taliban, and you're saying that even years ago, that miller was sort of really focused on shrinking and getting rid of the category, right? like essentially deconstructing it so you couldn't use it as a category to get people in. >> yes, but he does it in a very
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crafty way. what's happening here is what probably the public saw was the reporting about the refugee ceiling that was being decreased on a jiri basis under the trump administration. you see the travel ban order, you see the anti-refugee where they're not going to do refugee resettlement at the beginning of the start of the administration. all of these things contribute to a scenario of like the reduction of resources at dhs and these offices that work these issues, the reduction of resources at state. what you see is the construct of the narrative developing. so the reason i put my tweet is because i was getting so upset at watching the images of these people who really have been by our side and watching the narrative start to surface that they don't belong here, that these people don't belong here, which is such stephen miller rhetoric that i heard repeatedly during my the trump administration. >> and part of it, too, is just one of the things is such a frustrating reality that we have seen that the biden administration shares significant part of the blame
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for this, at least in terms of using this siv route, which many people warned them had been -- there's this maddening bureaucratic bottleneck, it has been unstuck a bit. we're seeing tens of thousands of folks airlifted out, but my understanding was in some ways miller was the architect of the bottleneck, because he didn't want the bottle to flow. he wanted to create and sort of interrupt the processes as arcane as they are by which these kinds of people can be brought in. >> yes, and this is already, like you said, a very challenging and cumbersome process. and let me tell you, the vetting that goes into the people that apply for these visas, this is some of the most stringent vetting in the national security system. it's well known that this is a very tough process to get through. what happened under stephen miller's watch is that the people doing the vetting and the processes, they start to become even more cumbersome and it becomes even more challenging. and stow you can kind of see the
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narrative coming together where he is clearly going out of his way, and look, here's a bigger issue. during these cabinet meetings, there was discussions about sivs, and the p-2 translators, especially when it comes to afghanistan, iraq, generals and intelligence community people, and where we pushed back on this narrative, and so we say, ork, the decision was made to prioritize these populations, but when you look at the numbers, the numbers speak for themselves. when you see that not many make it through the system, not many are issued. so it may have been said that we would prioritize them, but certainly that's not exactly how it played out and what happened. >> so you're saying even under the last administration, there would be an agreement to prioritize them, and the operational part of that would not happen. >> exactly, and that is where we realized, many of us working on the process, where we were making phone calls trying to we all clearly know, and you have reports
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on refugees where some of the language is stephen miller rhetoric and language he inserts there. that tells you the power this man had. >> olivia troye, thanks so much for joiningt. >> thanks for having me. don't go anywhere. there's one person in the senate to talk to about the situation in afghanistan, what congress should investigate, it's senator chris murphy. he joins me next. you need an ecolab scientific clean here. and you need it here. and here.
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baaam. internet that doesn't miss a beat. man: ...for al that's cute, but my internet streams to my ride. adorable, but does yours block malware? nope. -it crushes it. pshh, mine's so fast, no one can catch me. that's because you all have the same internet. xfinity xfi. so powerful, it keeps one-upping itself. can your internet do that? according to the pentagon, as of right now, there are 200 military aircraft flying nonstop, evacuating afghans and u.s. citizens out of afghanistan. nearly 40,000 people have been evacuated since two weeks ago. 16,000 leaving afghanistan over a 24-hour period this weekend. a massive undertaking. military planes, private air
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carriers alike taking part. other partner countries helping the effort, fairying tens of thousands out of the airport in kabul to destinations like the u.s. air base in germany. since sunday, at least five flights have landed at dulles international airport in washington, d.c., according to the pentagon, like this united airlines flight arriving from germany this morning. many in congress including democrats are calling for investigations into how the withdrawal is being conducted. senator chris murphy, a democrat of connecticut, sits on the foreign relations committee which announced it will investigate the circumstances around the withdrawal, including the trump administration's deal with the taliban, and he thinkathize committee needs to look beyond even that, and he joins me now. senator, first, let's start with the most sort of recent developments in the last, say, three or four days. it does seem that the pace, the efficacy of the air lift has appreciably improved. and we're getting more people out. what's your reaction to that?
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>> these images are heartbreaking to watch babies being lifted over walls, to hear the stories of afghan families, people who helped us over the last 20 years, having difficulty getting to the airport, having their lives threatened. all that being said, the numbers are starting to speak for themselves. we have now taken out around 50,000 individuals, just in the nine days since the country fell. and whether or not we should have known that the government and military were going to collapse overnight, we have put this all together in a period of nine to ten days. so while i think it's hard to label any of this a success, it is extraordinary, the effort that's under way. and i guess what i worry is that we are going to allow the people who cheer led us into this war and to stay for 20 years try to make the world and the country believe that there was some way to conduct this effort in a way
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that did not look chaotic. i think when the government and the military fall overnight, like they did, there's no way to avoid some of the chaos that we're seeing, and i do applaud all those that are involved for getting to the numbers we see today, 10,000 people every day being air lifted out. >> yeah, i want to follow up on that. first, i want to talk about, there was an intel briefing over on the house side, and some of those members coming out of that briefing, jason crow said that after -- he doesn't think it's possible to get everyone out by this august 31st deadline. urging biden to keep troops there despite what the taliban is saying, which is basically, look, we're sort of going along with this. it's not like they have been handing people roses and walter, but they have not been pulling off large scale attacks. they're saying that changes after august 31. crow saying these are our people. i just -- i don't know. what do you think about this
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idea about the 31st and that as a deadline? >> well, i don't think we should let the taliban decide when we stop air lifting americans or those who were most closely helping us out of the country. of course, it would be better to get all of this done by the 31st. but it may be that we will have to call the taliban's bluff here. so i leave that to the judgment of the administration, but i would certainly be willing to support u.s. forces staying there for as long as it takes. this is, you know, an essential mission for the united states of america, not leaving any of our people behind. at some point, we'll have to have a hard discussion about how many afghans we can pull out, what is our obligation. obviously, there were 300,000 people fighting for the afghan army at the time that we left. we can't bring all of them out of the country, but certainly those who were working most closely with us, we should, and it may take us beyond the end of
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this month to do that. >> you said something before that resonates with my reaction to watching this unfold, and again, i have been away, but i sort of feel like this is what it looks like when you lose a war. i mean, no one wants to say that. no one wants to utter those words. but we all know what the images of the saigon helicopter over the u.s. embassy was and the reason it happened was because the army we were fighting defeated the army we were supporting. quite quickly, in this case, the army we were fighting defeated the army we were supporting, after 20 years in about as much time as they probably would have back in 2002, frankly. and i just feel like that is the fundamental core of the thing here that people don't want to reckon with. >> of course, there was going to be chaos. of course, there was going to be panic on the streets of kabul
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after their government and military fell apart overnight. now, again, there will be a question as to whether we should have seen that coming, but the people of afghanistan did not see that coming. and so when they heard that the united states of america was air lifting people out, of course, there was a rush to the airport. and so again, i worry here that the same people who sort of fed us this story for 20 years that there was some magical way to train the afghan army to be able to fight for itself are now sort of feeding us this story that there should have been a way for us to withdraw and then in the wake of the collapse of the government and military, to avoid this kind of chaos. i mean, the scenes, again, are devastating to watch. i'm just not sure that there was any way to avoid it given what happened, given the fact that our 20-year occupation and training mission was a total complete failure. and when that came to light, i
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think it was inevitably going to be a chaotic situation on the ground and we're trying to manage it. >> senator chris murphy, thank you so much. >> thank you. that is "all in" for this evening. the "rachel maddow show" starts right now. good evening. rachel. >> how was your time off, chris? we missed you terribly. >> oh, that's kind of you. it was blissful, a lot of time with my family, a lot of sun. it was wonderful. huge thanks to mehdi and zerlina for making that happen. i feel tan, rested, and ready. >> i will say following along with your fresh pasta making and like kind of like walking your kids through, this is how we in the hayes family make our fresh pasta, go get the drying rack, very impressive. >> yes. the shaw/hayes family. you have to start them young on the pasta making, and the pasta made last night was -- it was very good. >> very