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tv   Stephanie Ruhle Reports  MSNBC  September 16, 2021 6:00am-7:00am PDT

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of your podcast. >> thank you so much. >> you can get it on apple or spotify and it is wonderful. >> i like to do things before anybody else does things. >> leading edge. >> willie, you are right. i think the people want to hear more about stamp collecting and coin collections. >> you talked through that stamp for two hours. >> stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. hi. i'm reel reel live at msnbc world headquarters in new york city. it is thursday, september 16th. this morning, officials in washington are ramping up security ahead of saturday's planned rally in support of the rioters. insurrectionists who stormed the capitol on january 6th. now new reporting that the far right is discouraging followers from going. emotional testimony from the
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world's greatest gymnasts sharing their stories of sexually abused by usa doctor larry nassar. what they are saying now is the people who are supposed to protect them failed to do their jobs. now in the final details of the $3.5 trillion spending bill. new signs that moderates in the house could sink the whole thing. we are starting with spacex and the crew orbiting 360 miles above thing earth's surface. they are up there right now after a successful blastoff last night. >> four, three, two, one. >> ignition. and liftoff. >> i can watch it 1,000 times and get the chills every time. the rocket roared into the
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night's sky from the same launch pad from the apollo moon mission. it will orbit the earth for the next three days. they will reenter the atmosphere and splash down into the atlantic ocean. the crew will conduct a series of scientific and medical experiments. i have cal perry in port canaval, florida. cal, walk us through the next three days. when we think of richard branson or the bezos brothers, they were up there for a few minutes. >> reporter: there is a different experience you can offer, at least at this point, very rich customers on the trip
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to space. deeper than the international space station. on time launch. 8:02 last night. they are currently traveling at 17,500 miles an hour. every 90 minutes. 15 sunrises and sun sets every day. they are trying to study the human body and how it reacts to space travel. the idea, stephanie, this is becoming cheap enough that you or i could get on the spacecraft without a lot of experience and have this kind of a trip. the other thing that is happening and we will see this play out over the next week. the massive fund raising effort for st. jude's hospital. they are hoping to raise $200 million. we saw last night online they took out one of the small stuffed animals they are auctioning online and sold out. they are hoping to get the to $200 million before they touchdown on saturday. >> leroy, are you a veteran of four space flights from 1994 to 2005. for me, this is extraordinary.
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i never thought a civilian like me could experience something like this. did you think we would experience this in your lifetime? >> this happened more quickly than i anticipated. of course, when i was at nasa, we were beginning to fly the first paying commercial on russian spacecraft. those were fantastically expensive. spacex has been flying astronauts for a few missions. to have a fully automated spacecraft with an amateur crew on board. they are able to do it. it worked. >> spacex has said their goal is to make space travel more accessible. do you think this mission helps accomplish that? >> spacex has done things that the experts said could never been done. recovering first stage boosters and flying back and landing and
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refurbishing and reusing. that brought down the cost of launching satellites. spacex is really being innovative on how these things work. the experts all said they couldn't be done. that brought the price down. cal pointed out that it is way out of reach for most of us. still in the 30-ish or 40-ish million dollars. if you divide that by four people on board, it is still a big number. >> it is. cal, i'm asking again. where is elon musk? don't tell me he is shy or awkward. why isn't he there? >> reporter: he is here. he was here last night. we saw a tweet from spacex at 4:19. a picture of him in front of the crew. they were happy he was there. we talked about this yesterday. a lot of this is being influenced by netflix and this show they put together called "countdown."
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that is why we are not seeing content. they are saving that for the show. it will be interesting to see if we see a lot of behind the scenes elon musk stuff. he is flamboyant. it is surprising we are not hearing from him on social media. i wonder if this is a slick rollout. thisis a big advertisement. >> i want to know why he is not in space. cal perry and leroy, thank you. we turn to the coronavirus pandemic and the battle over boosters intensifying. pfizer and moderna releasing research. pfizer calling it an urgent public health issue. on wednesday, the fda said a booster shot is not necessary. this is all happening before the key fda vaccine advisory committee meeting that is set to
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take place tomorrow. at the white house, president biden touting the effectiveness of the employer mandates from companies like disney, microsoft and walgreens. >> here is what wall street had to say. goldman sachs. vaccinations will have positive impact on employment. means less threat of covid to help people return to work. moody's. vaccinations means fewer hospitalizations and deaths. in turn, a stronger economy. i thank everyone for joining me. >> this meeting comes after a week since the president announced sweeping rules for companies with more than 100 employees to require vaccination or weekly testing. i want to remind people of that. require vaccination or weekly testing for anyone who is forced to vaccinate. they are not. monica alba is at the white house and gabe gutierrez is here
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in new york city and dr. redletter is with us. gabe, a lot of mixed messages on boosters. help us understand the latest. >> reporter: stephanie, tomorrow, as you mentioned, pfizer will breakdown the booster shoot data to the panel of outside advisers to the fda. that panel is expected to recommend whether americans should get that extra shot to help protect against covid. stephanie, as you stated, this is a very controversial issue in the medical community. moderna's president told nbc news yesterday that research shows waning protection over time. pfizer with a 52-page report citing information from israel. those people who were vaccinated in january had about a twofold increase risk of breakthrough
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infections compared to those vaccinated in april. staff at the fda has declined to take a position. top public health officials and doctors saying there is not enough evidence to support that so far. they say the focus should be on making sure more people get the first dose rather than trying to talk about a booster shot and this is something that will play out over the coming days. we expect to get more information tomorrow once that panel of outside experts looks at the data. some criticism, stephanie, is the research from israel is not a large sample size. some public health officials say there is not enough evidence out there and there should not be the emphasis placed on booster shots yet. >> doctor, where do you come out on this? pfizer and moderna saying it is urgent. they are the ones who make the boosters. >> they are, stephanie. the thing is that this is really
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ignited one of the biggest controversies we had from protecting people from covid-19. there is conflicting data and conflicting opinions. that will not be resolved any time soon. the bigger problem is this is another race against time. i fact, if people's immunity is waning, then there is a real emergency to get their immunity boosted by the booster shot sooner rather than later. the data from israel is actually relatively small piece of data. enough to convince israeli public health officials that a booster shot is absolutely necessary. as far as i understand it, dr. fauci and others at the nih believe that is the case. people need to get boosters and if they are going to, we should start as soon as possible. the tamp down and breakthrough
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infections of the people already vaccinated. >> ray lahood is the head of the transportation agency. now requiring all in the transportation industry to be vaccinated. what is the white house saying? >> reporter: stephanie, there is nothing off the table. discussions about every possible option and using every lever at their disposal with the mandates. at the same time, most of the discussion has focused on international travel. yesterday, jeff zients said that's where they are looking to potentially make changes in the coming weeks and having more strict requirements for foreign nationals coming into the united states. of course, right now, there are some travel restrictions internationally like the uk asked the u.s. to lessen. the biden administration holding
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firm. given the delta variant and surge, we will keep those in place. domestically, yesterday, dr. fauci said he would support vaccine mandates for all of those traveling within the united states. clearly, these conversations continue behind the scenes in the white house. the press secretary yesterday did not say if the president would support that or not. instead, what they rolled out in terms of the requirements for businesses and employers with more than 100 workers, that's where the priority and focus is right now. that's why the president met with the invited ceos to the white house, steph. this is somewhere it could be going and the white house says there will be additional steps rolled out in the weeks to come. potentially something in the airline industry. as you know, many heads of those airlines right now are worried about what mandates could mean for their business this fall. >> i want everyone to think about this for a moment. president biden quoting a report from goldman sachs in support of
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the vaccine mandates. you know who loves those reports from goldman sachs? the rich republicans who live in palm beach. what does ron desantis think about that or more importantly, what do they think about blocking the mandates? still ahead, a devastating day of testimony from current and former team usa gymnasts about how the fbi failed them in the larry nassar sexual abuse case. >> it was like serving innocent children up to a pedophile on a silverplatter. >>. and fencing is going up ahead the saturday. we will tell you what they are doing to prepare so this is not a repeat of january 6th. s not a repeat of january 6th. would b. i was diagnosed with parkinson's. i had to retire from law enforcement. it was devastating. one of my medications is three thousand dollars per month.
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your first month for just $30 at now to the emotional testimony from four of the country's top gymnasts on capitol hill. those athletes sharing the sexual abuse claims by larry nassar and taking the fbi to task. olympic gold medalist aly haly raisman talking to the "today" show. >> looking at the usa gymnastics
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and interplay along the organizations need to be investigated independently and we need to look at the connection how they all three worked together. >> the very organizations and agencies designed to protect them. anne thompson has the latest from washington. anne. >> reporter: good morning, stephanie. the gymnasts say they were gratified by the support they heard from the senators at the hearing yesterday. as the women described their sexual abuse by the team's doctor and in excruciating detail. the horror doesn't end there. they spoke up. they detailed their abuse to the fbi. the agents did nothing. by doing nothing, the fbi allowed more children to be abused. >> we have been failed and we deserve answers.
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>> reporter: in get wrenching testimony on wednesday, the four gymnasts told the committee to hold the fbi accountable for the sexual abuse they suffered at the hands of usa gymnasts doctor larry nassar. >> i don't want another gymnast or athlete or individual to experience the horror that i and hundreds of others have endured before, during and continuing to this day in the wake -- of the larry nassar abuse. >> reporter: nassar is serving up to 150 years in prison. pleading guilty of the 10 of more than 265 accusers coming forward. mckayla maroney telling lawmakers in 2015, she spent three hours on the phone with
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the fbi agent. sharing details of the abuse she had not shared with her own mother. >> i was crying over the memory of the phone and there was dead silence. i was shocked at the disregard for my trauma. after that minute of silence, he said is that all. >> reporter: and aly raisman said the issue had a devastating impact. >> the fbi made me feel like my abuse didn't count or wasn't a big deal. >> reporter: the fbi did not officially open an investigation until nearly a year after it learned of the allegations. in that time. it is estimated that nassar abused another 70 gymnasts. >> i'm deeply and profoundly sorry. >> reporter: chris wray is acknowledging the mishandling of the case. of the two agents who lied of
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the actions, one has retired and one has been fired. reforms are already under way. maggie nichols was the first to report the abuse in 2015. her mother, gina, told savannah in a 2015 "dateline" by how frustrated she was. >> i reported this over a year ago. you are the first person from any form of law enforcement that has called me. i said when did you get this assignment. he told me yesterday. >> reporter: maggie nichols wants answers. >> what is justice? >> i think justice is holding those accountable who failed us in our career and childhood. >> reporter: the fbi director did show up at the hearing yesterday, other justice department officials who so far refused to charge those two former agents for lying about what they did -- those officials declined to attend.
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as a result, the gymnasts say they feel the justice department doesn't care. stephanie. >> anne thompson, thank you. those officials declined to attend. they didn't want to hear the truth. turning to the state of south carolina and that ongoing trauma. this extraordinary story. the drama involving a legal family. we learned alex murdaugh will turn himself in today. police say he plotted the attack as a huge $10 million insurance scam. our own catie beck has latest from south carolina. catie. >> reporter: soon alex will stand before a judge in a courtroom he knows very well. this time, it will be as a defendant. not attorney. ranged for another man to take his life
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part of the insurance scheme. kurt smith is charged in the plot. police say he was enlisted by murdaugh to pull the trigger. it all comes three months after the unsolved murders of his wife and son. the death of maggie and paul, along with several others tied to the family, are now getting a closer look from authorities. overnight, south carolina law enforcement announced a criminal investigation into the death of gloria satterfield. she worked as the housekeeper for two decades. according to the wrongful death settlement, she died after a trip and fall accident in 2018. her two sons pursued the wrongful death and a settlement was reached. >> how much money have they received? >> zero. >> reporter: now a new complaint
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to find out what happened. >> not people of great means and not people to buck the system. >> reporter: their lawyers say they were frightened to challenge a powerful household name in a small community. until now. >> i'll chase anybody through the gates of hell to get the money these kids deserve. >> reporter: murdaugh's lawyers telling nbc news we cannot address the claims until we have the opportunity to review and discuss with alex. at the same of his death, paul was facing charges related to a boating accident that left 19-year-old mallory beach dead. >> p people covered up. >> their goal is accountability. >> there are two systems of justice? when and where? the haves have a certain level of accountability. the have-nots have another level of accountability. >> catie beck, thank you. being super wealthy doesn't mean you don't have to follow the
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law. coming up next, house committee prepares to brief members of the human infrastructure bill, president biden meets with two key senators. manchin and sinema. don't forget, these two may be the face, but a lot of other democrats in there that are not quite ready to sign up. e ready p people with moderate to severe psoriasis, or psoriatic arthritis, are rethinking the choices they make like the splash they create
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this morning, democrats are getting down to the nitty gritty with the spending package. trying to figure out what is in and what is out and what can pass. president biden will deliver remarks about the spending plan and the economy this afternoon. it comes a day after he met with joe manchin and krysten sinema. two key votes he needs to get the bill through. i want to bring in sahil kapur.
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i know the house is getting the pieces of the bill together. what are the sticking pieces? >> reporter: stephanie, house committees wrapped up the markups of the $3.5 trillion bill. we see the struggle to get the democrats on the same page. yesterday, the committee deadlocked on the prescription drug title to negotiate down. it did not move forward. three democrats objected to it. that will be a challenge for speaker pelosi and the white house to get the votes on the floor. they say they are not giving up on that. the issue of the democrats, particularly from new york and new jersey, raised the s.a.l.t. cap. cap the $10,000 per person, per filer in 2017 by republicans. a number of democrats say that cap needs to be lifted or they will not support the final outcome. beyond that, the timing and
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procedures. stephanie murphy, the democrat from florida, voted against every provision in the committee. she said she needs more time. some are pushing pelosi to come up with a version of the bill to pass the senate before it gets to the floor in the house. that is not what progressives want. they want this to move quickly. >> sahil, thank you. democrats have said the goal is to make sure the whole thing, $3.5 trillion package, is fully paid for. yesterday, chief of staff ron clain said the cost of the build back better plan is zero. how will that happen? a lot coming from raising taxes. the democrats plan is starting with raising the top marginal tax rate for individuals and couples from 37% to 39.6%. the flat corporate tax rate at 21% currently and changes it to
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a graduated structure. the top rate at 26.5%. it raises the top rate for capital gains from 20% to 25%. it adds a 3% sur tax for individual income over $5 million. got that? the joint committee on taxation looked at it and said together it would only raise $2 trillion over the next ten years. there is still $1.5 trillion short. what is in plan b? one possibility is do what president biden wanted in the first place. jack the overall corporate tax rate to 28% which is still below where it used to be and capital gains rate at under 40% which is nearly double where it is now. i want to bring in jason furman. the obama former white house adviser. and maya guinness. maya, by my math, democrats have $1.5 trillion unpaid.
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what is ron talking about when he says this will cost zero? >> well, the white house has put out a really impressive objective which is this bill will be fully paid for. the problem is, the policy coming from congress right now, is not getting close to that objective. the white house, to its credit, put out a full list of policies that would have paid for this bill. what we are looking at is all of the great things in the spending bill. now the members of congress are looking at the pay fors and saying not comfortable with that. the whole thing is watered down. the question is will they find more pay fors? they are out there if they look for them. will they scale back or borrow more than they planned and add more to the national debt. >> jason y do they have to pay for the whole thing? if the plan is to put programs in place to help the economy,
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could we grow our way out of it? do we have to have this paid for? >> yes. stephanie, they don't need to pay for all of it. they certainly should pay for a bunch of it. i'm glad they are taking a lot of steps. they are still politically tough to do it, most in the right way. right now, interest rates are effectively negative after you adjust for inflation. when the government pays back a decade from now, it is paying less and what it borrowed. on the other side of the scale, a lot of what is talked about here are real long-term investments like preschool. i don't know they will pay for themselves over time, but generate additional revenue to offset costs. if they pay for a lot of it and don't pay for all of it and what it is is very good and well designed with preschool, i certainly think they should go
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ahead and pass it regardless of whether it adds up exactly or not. >> maya, take us to school. why not pay for it? most people would be off by a gazillion. >> give or take a gazillion. i'll disagree with jason. here is why. interest rates are low. that means it is easier to borrow than otherwise would be. the good news. the bad news is the government has a plan if we do nothing else. borrow for nothing else, to borrow $13 trillion over the next decade. that is the reason our debt relative to the economy is likely to be growing. that's while interesting rates are relatively low. likely to go up some. if they go up more than expected, because we have the huge debt load, our interest payments will go up very quickly and squeeze out other parts of
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the budget and in a dangerous way and have a negative effect on the economy. it is not prudent to borrow until we hit the limit and then figure out how to pay the cost. we are already paying $300 billion plus every year. that will trickle over the next decade. if rates went up more or borrowing goes up more, that will increase. that leaves us vulnerable to the next big emergency where we should borrow. it was important we borrowed for covid. we have to borrow for future emergencies. we don't want to push ourselves. that is what we should do. we made a huge mistake in borrowing for covid for the tax cuts and spending increases. that was reckless. itis time to pay for the priorities. they are important. they are worth it to many people. that means it is worth it to pay for them. >> we are out of time. jason, quickly.
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$3.5 trillion. do you think it goes through? >> i certainly hope so. we have a lot of unmet needs in our country. i'm more worried about the fact the united states is one of the lowest preschool attendance rates of the rich countries than i am about the debt. if we make that adjustment. >> we will soon find out. jason and maya, thank you. before we go to break, child care say huge part of it. long before covid, parents have been and still are struggling to work and take care of their kids. treasury secretary janet yellen and vice president harris spoke about it yesterday. for the secretary, she explained how this issue is personal to her. she knows what it is like to be a working mom and said child care, good child care made all the difference for her family
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and career. >> we were fortunate. our experience with child care was definitely not the norm at the time and it is far from the norm today. looking back, i'm not sure whether i would be here in this job today if i didn't have an excellent babysitter 40 years ago. >> that is her truth. far from the norm today. less than 12% of job gains went to women last month. mostly because we do not have good, affordable child care. it is hard to come by. her point was important. ask yourself. what does every successful working parent have in common? the answer is child care. no matter how smart and talented you are. if it is 3:00 p.m. and you are at work and thinking about your kid sitting on that weird chair in the nurse's office with nobody to pick them up or mom or dad is the latest because you
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are afraid to tell your boss you have to go, you will never been successful. we have to do better. we have to make sure all working parents have better access to child care. parents have better access to child care attacks i've had. but my nunormal with nucala? fewer asthma attacks. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection-site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your doctor about nucala. find your nunormal with nucala. age-related macular degeneration may lead to severe vision loss, so the national eye institute did 20 years of clinical studies on a formula found in preservision. if it were my vision, i'd ask my doctor about preservision. it's the most studied eye vitamin brand. if it were my vision, i'd look into preservision preservision areds 2 contains the exact nutrient formula
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gold. your strategic advantage. back now to capitol hill. fencing went up overnight to prepare for a potentially violent rally on saturday. the justice for j6 rally. an event in support of the pro-trump rioters on the spot where they stormed the capitol. people are getting message. far right steering people away from the rally. claiming it could be a plot to armor rioters. leigh ann caldwell is outside the capitol. if the plan is to be peaceful, why not the far right to show up to show support for the friends, the insurrectionists.
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>> reporter: well, that's an excellent question. who knows what is inside their minds? it seems like there is about 700 people expected at the rally. according to the department of homeland security and the estimate. regardless of the relatively small number compared to what happened on january 6th, capitol police are taking everything into consideration. every worst-case scenario and that's why overnight they reinstalled the temporary fencing around the capitol. it is around the perimeter of the capitol like we saw after january 6th. it does allow traffic to move around the capitol. in addition, they installed the new security cameras over the past week. we know there are three of those. high-tech high-security cameras to ensure the safety. we have a better watch of what is happening on that day. now what you are looking at is
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the east front of the capitol. that is the center steps of the capitol where the rioters went up the steps and into the capitol. i will say, steph, talking to people around here, members of congress are tweeting. saying it is extremely depressing that once again the fences around the capitol concerned about what threat could come on saturday. >> the fencing is depressing. the state of the world is depressing. i warrant to bring in ben collins. you know him. he covers disinformation for us here at nbc. take us inside the dark web. you know it best. what's going on? they are now saying they are not going? >> yeah, basically. all of the forums that planned january 6th, posting blueprints and maps of the tunnels at the capitol, they are not so hot on this one. not in the same stance as they
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were back on january 6th. they are calling this an fbi rally. they say this is filled with federal informants. they are telling people not to go. that is a good way to cya here. to cover yourself, in case something does happen. any violent action that takes place, this is a false flag to drum up more hate against trump supporters. they conspiracy theory themselves into never being able to effectively organize again. some people are showing up anyway to prove they can still do it. >> well, they can. you are allowed to peacefully protest here in the united states. what you can't do is storm the capitol. ben, leigh ann, thank you. you will both be busy this weekend. coming up, calls for investigation after facebook knew about how toxic its
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instagram app was for teenagers. the reporter who broke the story join us on what if there is anything we can do. there is. i promise. we can do there is i promise. like little walks. and, getting screened for colon cancer. that's big because when caught in early stages, it's more treatable. hey, cologuard! hi. i'm noninvasive and i detect altered dna in your stool to find 92% of colon cancers, even in early stages. early stages! yep, it's for people 45 plus at average risk for colon cancer, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider if cologuard is right for you. count me in! me too! as someone who resembles someone else... i appreciate that liberty mutualt me in! knows everyone's unique. that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. [ nautical horn blows ] i mean just because you look like someone else doesn't mean you eat off the floor, or yell at the vacuum, or need flea medication. oh, yeah. that's the spot.
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now to the story that is no doubt a topic, topic number one around dinner tables this week. senators are calling for an investigation into facebook and its photo sharing app instagram. after the wall street journal revealed that facebook has known for years about the dangers instagram poses for kids. they never told the public. erin mclaughlin has more. >> reporter: instagram can be damaging for teenagers. noably teenage girls. the journal citing three years of the tech giant's internal studies, including one leaked power point slide from march of 2020. 32% of teen girls said when they felt bad about their bodies, instagram made them feel worse. another from 2019reads, tens
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blame instagram in the rate of anxiety and depression. the wall street journal writing 6% of american teen users traced the desire to kill themselves to instagram. >> this could have life altering consequences. >> reporter: the findings are not shocking to the 18-year-old. she says she developed an eating disorder when she was 13. around the same time she joined instagram. >> it is obviously extremely difficult when you see the phone and the feed of perfect photos. >> reporter: the latest reporting showing facebook publicly downplayed the effects of instagram. >> the research we have seen is using the social apps to connect with other people can have positive mental health benefits. >> reporter: instagram hitting back at the reporting. it focuses on a limited set of findings and casts them in a negative light.
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noting the people's well being is mixed and social media is not good or bad for people. promising to address the problems. >> mark zuckerberg there saying instagram can have a positive mental impact. what know it has a negative impact. i want to bring in georgia wells, who co-wrote the piece for the washington journal and dr. melissa hunt, clinical psychologist and associate director of clinical training at the university of pennsylvania. she has been studying this for years. doctor, i want to start with you. for people who aren't exactly familiar with how instagram works, explain how the platform is built and why it's so dangerous. >> particularly dangerous for young people, because the very nature of the platform is it's a photo-sharing platform. and it allows for editing and
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filters and all sorts of things that make people look better. now when this was just a platform for sharing photos with grandma, that was fine. but the way in which instagram has been monetized is that it depends on people spending hours and hours every day, passively scrolling through feeds posted by strangers and, in particular, posted by celebrities, posted by instagram influencers, who are monetizing their instagram presence themselves. these are not real-life photos. and young people see these photos and think, oh, my life is supposed to be like that. and so they do a lot of social comparison and it makes them feel terrible about their own lives. >> georgia, anecdotally, right, i'm a parent of a teen. we've all been saying for years, wow, what this does for teens, feeling like looking at other people's fabulous lives and their lives are terrible. we've all seen it.
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when you were working on this report, digging into it, what stuck out to you that was a serious wow, this is a huge problem? >> one of the key findings in the documents was that negative social comparison was worse on instagram than other social media apps. the reason that matters is in the past when we've spoken to executives at instagram, facebook, they often describe these issues as ones that affect social media more broadly. this isn't just an instagram problem. it's a social media problem. in the documents, it spells out that part of what makes instagram a place with more negative social comparisons for teen girls is the focus on body and lifestyle. they say on tiktok, much of the content is couched in performance, that can take the edge off the comparative aspects of it. on snap chat many of the filters are silly, giving yourself a puppy face rather than
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beautifying. >> i do like the puppy face. doctor, mark zuckerberg testified before congress in march. he seemed rather naive and said the jury was still out in terms of whether or not it's damaging. look what he said. >> yes or no, do you agree, too much time in front of screens, passively consuming content, is harmful to children's mental health? >> congresswoman, the research i've seen on this suggests that if people are using computers and social apps -- >> can you answer that yes or no? >> there's -- i don't think that the research is conclusive on that. >> you've done research. is it conclusive? >> research is absolutely conclusive. yes, the research is conclusive. when you do the research well, when you, for example, assign people conditions so you know what the causal direction is, when you get objective metrics
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about the time that they're spending, you don't rely on self reporting and certainly don't rely on retrospective self report. well, how much social media do you think you consumed over this past week but download things to track the amount of time that the app is open on their screen. in those -- when the research is done well, it is absolutely conclusive. if a young person is distressed and spend more than an hour a day on social media, their distress continues and magnifies. however, if a person is distressed and reduce their social media use to 30 to 60 minutes a day, their distress will reduce immensely. it's not just how much time we spent, it's also who we're following. passively consuming content produced by strangers is the worst possible way to use social media. of course, that's exactly how instagram is monetized and has a
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lot of features that actually encourage the views that we know to be most harmful. >> facebook wasn't regulated to do anything but when they found out definitively about the negative impact from instagram, did they choose to do anything? >> the research discusses different measures they believe could lessen harmful effects and so then we see the company -- the biggest effort that the company makes with regard to these issues is called project daisy. it was an effort to give users the option to move accounts on photos and videos. it didn't move the needle very much when they rolled this out. >> doctor, here is the thing. it's not just instagram. all of this is part of our culture. it's been in our culture for years. earlier this week, we all -- many of us watched the met gala red carpet and watched celebrity after celebrity. we talked about it earlier this
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week, talked about they couldn't wait to get sthie because they were starving, hadn't eaten for days. they didn't knowingly say that to be harmful to viewers. it is how they live their lives. what do we do to address this? the problem is much bigger than instagram. >> the problem is bigger than instagram. you're quite right. we've known for, you know, decades and decades and decades, long before cell phones even existed, that if you handed a young woman a copy of a fashion magazine and left her alone in a room, her body image was going to decline and she was going to start to feel bad about herself. so, this isn't a new problem. but the real issue is that you didn't have vogue magazine in your hand 24/7, before school, after school, during school, before bed, while you're supposed to be doing your homework. the dozens of these platforms in these young people's hands and
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the degree to which the platforms pretend to showcase the lives of real people. nobody looks at vogue magazine and thinks that the supermodel is like a normal person. but when we look at instagram influencers, they're often pretending to be sort of normal people next door. so, that's part of the reason that instagram is so pernicious. in fact, the research reports this, that instagram is the most damaging platform out there. >> influencers, not the girl or boy next door. thank you both for joining us. you definitely made us smarter this morning. that wraps up this very busy hour. i'm stephanie ruhle. thanks for watching. hallie jackson picks up coverage on the other side of the break. e on the other side of the break instantly ready to start working. so you can bounce back fast with alka-seltzer plus.
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