tv The Rachel Maddow Show MSNBC October 18, 2021 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT
reason, a policy reason, but even with the individual reason, there is good data to suggest that if you had covid, getting vaccinated makes sense. it boosts your protection against reinfection and also provides a comprehensive way to boost immunity in the future that is not just, you know, a natural reinfection. >> that's absolutely much more reliable, much more durable. we'll probably see the longevity of our immune response. you're able to boost more in case that's needed, but it's better than severe hospitalization or death. >> doctor, that was very helpful. thank you very much. that's all for "all in." rachel maddow is next. president biden tonight has ordered flags across the country flown at half staff to honor the legacy of general colin powell who has died today at the age of
84. because of general powell's remarkable record of service to the united states, his status is just a singular figure in modern public service. american flags will fly at half staff in colin powell's honor not for a day but for every day this week until sunset on friday night. general powell's legacy is an important, powerful, complex thing that operates on a lot of different levels. we're going to have much more on his passing coming up over the course of this hour. he's just about the only american i can think of who was not a u.s. president but for whom you nevertheless need to consult a presidential historian to talk about his role in our country and his role in modern history, how he changed this country as a singular figure. we're going to do that later on this hour. we've got much more ahead on that coming up. we are also following a number of developing stories
tonight. the committee investigating the january 6 attack on the u.s. capitol tonight has released a formal report recommending something that hasn't been done in nearly 40 years. former president trump's campaign manager and one-time white house advisor steve bannon has lately settled into a sort of marginal role as a right-wing podcaster and effectively a trump surrogate. he travels around the country promoting the myth that joe biden really didn't win the 2020 election. former president trump is going to somehow be reinstated. steve bannon has become like the mypillow guy but without the pillows. it was less than a year ago that trump pardoned him for the felony fraud charges he was facing for his role in a fake border wall fundraising scheme that appears to have separated lots of gullible trump supporters from lots of their money. that money just ended up going into the pockets of steve bannon
and the co-defendants. the co-defendants, personally, was not paid for by president trump. steve bannon snubbed the subpoena. they're real things, but bannon has decided to defy the one he got regarding the january 6 investigation. tonight the committee investigating the january 6 attack, they just released a report tonight which recommends that bannon should, therefore, be referred to the justice department for prosecution. now, the committee is going to formally vote tomorrow night to make that referral for prosecution. then what will happen is that the justice department, the u.s. attorney for washington, d.c., will have to decide what to do about it. it has been nearly 40 years since a former government
official has been prosecuted for denying a subpoena like this. but hey, you never know. couldn't happen to a nicer guy. that high drama tonight around trump's former campaign manager, who he has had to pardon once -- that drama came after president trump and designating the january 6 attack. he is trying to stop the investigation sblit his attack. he followed that lawsuit tonight on the. before he filed the lawsuit tonight, earlier this afternoon trump completed a 4 350i7b9 dlv civil lawsuits that are currently pending.
these plaintiffs allege that trump encouraged violence, they allege that trump is responsible for the violence, and that's because the security guards responsible for this violence worked for him. the suit has been around for several years. in this case and in several other cases, he was able to delay having to give any deposition or any other testimony in these cases because he was serving as president. now thatly no longer appearing for these things. in fact. ms. vrbo says trump defamed with
her sdinld. he's facing another potential deposition and potentially a dna test in a similar case brought by a different woman who also saysly trump claims of? . people were do you happened into investing in a bunch of worthlessly now that he is no. there's a bunch of these. i could go on. before today, the last time he was actually deposed in one of these civil suits. it was elected in 20. in that case he was retlitd another fraud case like hids
12th wedding an verse. harder have, in 21 billion dollar, right before he was sworn in as president. i many. we should have known at the time that was nachblt em wants to watch over thechl right before he becomes president. but in 2015, in if. this is the last as of today they have started back up. so we're watching that. also as of tonight we've got eyes on the u.s. supreme court.
the u.s. justice department has gone to the supreme court on the issue of texas' abortion ban. you'll recall that the supreme court allowed that texas abortion ban to go into effect in september, last month. the justice department is fighting it. today doj basically asked the supreme court to look at the case from a different angle than the way they previously looked at it. the justice department wants the supreme court to block the law, basically, on the grounds that texas can't do something that deliberately violates the u.s. constitution, and then block the federal courts from reviewing it. so, again, the justice department could have gone back to a lower appeals court. . itly to potentially fold that in with the other major abortion case thaz rlt.
anti-abortionlyie rad dpalts. eyes in the supreme court in that case tonight as well. there is a lot going on, and on top of all of that, when it comes to the democratic party, and the democratic party trying to get its u nielsly. ly on this long saga that we have been r mostly coalescing behind hind stop progress toward these things many. in the same room to go tg
bipartisan infrastructure it approximate bill as the united states senate. she's been the lead on the progressive side. on a sing get side, there is no need for a voter. he would probably still not have to fight against who has their p. on the wos tchl. ly penl drat to watch thim nsly. there are more talks directly between her and president biden. what is even more interesting and newsworthy is what she did after her meeting with president
biden. it is nbc news garrett haake that held a meeting with president obama, and she had another meeting with a guy named joe in the middle of this drama. she had a building with the people who need to fight this out. senator manchin is one of two, count them, two -- who will has. i want to do exactly sure, whether they want to cut it, they don't care if it's smaller or if they should cut different things. it depends how good the mood is on.
>> it looks like it would match up to the president's agenda at all. . they are likely to be strepd out. on joe manchin said how he wants to cut down the child tax credit. at the same time, everybody else in the party, their frustration with joe manchin seemed to reach a tipping point. saturday night, the budget committee, head of the senate. he wrote an p-ed for the charleston paper u. sdpll the key back brl program.
senator said all of those thijz will post another delly we need eveily article. publishing that in senator manchin's hometown paper in west virginia. he doesn't like anyone else handing him those discussions except him. he defined that op-ed in a snippy removal. no op-ed from a self-declared independent socialist is going to change that.
so all of that made it seem like the prospects for democrats figuring something out, coming to some kind of resolution, it seems like those prospects were getting skp and oo. but then today apps. from the first time these talks began, you have a lead investigate or, jayapal, somehow managing to get into the same room as one of the two elusive senators holding up this deal. from the very beginning, for those of us who aren't politicians, for those of us who watch this because we care about the policy and the human drama of it, those of us who are not politicians instinct actively felt, couldn't jayapal and manchin talk about this? what if they made an argument to each other without anyone else
there? could senator manchin sit in the same room and talk about it one on one. obviously they both have points to make. if they talked about it 101 in this. sources tell msnbc news that after the meeting with jayapal and manchin, each of them laid out their priorities for the build back better drill. but they each laid out their correct. again, this is. and also senator manchin held another bun in one meeting with senator manchin.
later a chip per thought they were leaving and went to get sued o'fill. >> we're talking. >> you're going to havely a revolution by the end of the week? >> do you care to make. you sort of sefrd something there as they goett got out of their cars. . ly the quote, never give up, bernie. what does that mean? cnn reported that in addition to senator man thin meeting with senator jay a paul. senator faen call with president
biden today? does this mean that things are changing? what does it mean that the key progressives in this despite we're meeting runly tlou the indicate progress? i have just the porn to ask. joining usually. congressass cloou. ly again, i'm watching from the cheap seats as is everybody in this country who is a stakeholder in this fight, who you knows how transformative this could be who justlily do the drama. what can you tell us about that meeting with senator manchin and how we should understand it in terms of whether this thing is going to get done?
>> i have said for a long time that we're going to get them done. we're going to get them done. everybody knows there are differences. we have to bridge them and come pogue, because at the end of the day, we have to deliver both bills, the build become better deal and the one that goes -- i don't think i'll have details for us to be talking to each other, and i think that thosing. we're not going to be able to make ng unless we all talk to each other. that's what today was about. . thls the president's agenda and
i am really proud of the caucus for what we did to actually get the build back better act onto the table and have us negotiating on it, have a real discussion around it. because unlike the bipartisan bill which you and i talked about and i think we were both kind of skeptical, honestly, that it was going to get done. but it took five months and eventually it got done. but this also has really only been two weeks of negotiation. it's only since the progressive caucus said we're not going to do one without the other, that we then were able to get people to take this negotiation seriously and come to the table. and that's what we're doing right now. i'm not saying it's going to -- i don't know that it's going to be done tomorrow, right? we're going to keep having these conversations. i'm back at the white house tomorrow with some of my progressive colleagues. i know the president is also doing another meeting with some of the other centrist democrats, but this is important, and i do think it's important that the president himself has been really engaged, because as i've
been saying on tv, i said it to him directly, he thanked me for this -- it's the president's agenda. it's the agenda that joe biden ran on, that democrats ran on, and he is at the center of that. he is working really hard to get us to resolution. >> do you believe that senator manchin wants to pass the build back better act? do you see at the very top of your remarks there that you believe both these things will pass. if he doesn't want build back better to pass, it won't pass. do you believe he wants a bill and it's just a matter of finding out what it is exactly that he can say yes. . there are dimpss some of them have been reported in the farpz. there are differences -- one of
the things that's always interesting for me when i'm talking to people that are from very different states is just what is it like in your state, and that's an important pardon of we're getting kt bo, between us and the white house, but this was an important step to listen to each other directly. and to be able to say that, for example, for me to be able to say, yes, i do believe that senator manchin wants to build a bill to pass. is it a different bill than i want to pass? yes. will we get to some resolution, i hope so, but it may look a little opaque on the outside and
it but can we do something for the country that really does provide a real investment in client, housing, all of the things we've been talking about, i do think that we will deliver something very tragic and something for the country, i really do. >> you just said the bill they want to pass is not the bill senator manchin wants to pass. i have to ask you, does senator manchin think he is going to get everything he wants? does he actually tharpg. i ask that not to bely snooid
fld. everybody who wants to pats this bill needs to be willing about whattist nl. they won't dictate they get. do you feel like you know that after meeting with michlt i'm certainly not going to. mobile fe. i think that we are going to get this bill done. it is going to be more than some people wanted, it is going to be less than what other people wanted. what i'm concerned about is, is it transformative? is it going to be a massive investment in people's lives, in improving people's lives, so
that, rachel, at the end of the day, they actually trust us in government to deliver. that to me is the biggest thing here and that's why i'm looking at every piece of this through that lens? will we. a. we are going to fight for everything. we just may not get nvrg, you know, for the longer term. we have got to deliver something at least nonconfrontational. can you be in politics without being an op to mist. i don't think it's going to be simple, i don't think it needs
to be soon and we'll get there. >> any follow-up plans to meet with senator sinema. >> i had one quietly and would be ready to talking to at any time. we've got to get this kun. that's all i want at the end of the day, people to wake up and say, you know what, they fought for me and they made my life better. maybe they didn't get everything from me and i think what we'll soon be able to hear that. >> congresswoman jayapal, both in the room with senator than chin and davis.
>> thank you very much. ily this is getting to be remarkably dynamic. we'll stay right here. stay with us. dynamic we'll stay right here. stay with us regina approaches the all-electric cadillac lyriq. it's a sunny day. nah, a stormy day. classical music plays. um uh, brass band, new orleans. ♪ ♪ she drives hands free... along the coast. make it palm springs. ♪ cadillac is going electric. if you want to be bold, you have to go off-script. experience the all-electric cadillac lyriq.
able to run for president. >> colin powell announcing he will not be running for the presidency. public opinion at the time showed that he was the single most popular figure in the united states of america at that time. before he made that speech in '95 announcing he would not run for the presidency, it was very, very possible that he would run. he had written two speeches, one announcing he would run and one announcing that he wouldn't. either was possible. he had written a memoir that was a smash success. people mobbed his book events as though they were campaign events. he did travel to some crucial states. he did campaign events to see if running for president would be right for him. colin powell had been an independent and legitimate nonpartisan throughout his 35 years of military service. both parties, in fact, considered him as a potential
standard bear in his presidential campaign before he did test the waters in 1995. but in 1995 when he was testing those waters, he made it clear he was a republican. after leaving the military, the nomination he thought about pursuing in 1996 would have been the republican party's presidential nomination, which meant that in 1996 he would have been running to try to make bill clinton a one-term president. if he had succeeded, that general election that year would have been incumbent president bill clinton versus republican nominee colin powell. my friend steve bennen, who is a long-time writer for this show, steve told me today, quote, you would be amazed at how many people in the clinton white house that day were watching general powell's speech live. because the stakes were so high. looking back at it now, looking back at the huge margin by which
bill clinton won reelection in 1996, in retrospect it seems like a fait accompli that bill clinton would get reelected. after bill clinton's term in 1995, the prospect of running against that one guy, the prospect of running against colin powell made blood run cold in the clinton white house. the single most popular figure in the united states of america. but he decided not to run. general powell died today at the age of 84 from complications of covid-19. he was 84 years old. he had survived an earlier bout with prostate cancer, he had parkinson's disease, he also had multiple myeloma which is a form of cancer that meant that he was severely immune suppressed. being vaccinated against covid-19 as general powell was, it greatly reduces your risk of getting covid, it greatly reduces your risk of dying from
covid if you do get infected, but with the rest -- as is true with the unvaccinated population, age and medical co comorbidities make things worse. he was especially vulnerable to infection and ultimately he did not survive it. by now you have heard over and over again today the almost unbelievable resume and list of firsts. he was national security advisor to president ronald reagan, he was president of the joint chiefs of staff to president george h.w. bush and president clinton, he was secretary of state to president george w. bush. left office in 2004. at each of those cheers of achievement, colin powell was the first african-american to hold any of those positions. the pulitzer prize-winning columnist wrote today, powell
knew how his obituaries would someday describe him, the first after american secretary of state, the first african-american champl of the joint chiefs of state and the first african-american national security advisor to the president. colin l. powell shouldered that responsibility while giving the impression that the weight was light as a feather. he was the son of immigrants from jamaica. he was born in harlem raised in the south bronx. he went to city college in new york. entered the army through the rotc program. he was highly decorated for two long, difficult combat tours in vietnam. he was the youngest one-star general in the united states army by the time he was 42 years old. he led the invasion of panama, he led the first gulf war in 1991. but his impact on the country was beyond even what he did in the u.s. military, and the
strength of his example as a public servant. it was profoundly political. he announced that he was a republican in 1995. he announced that he could no longer consider himself a republican this year after the attack on the u.s. capitol by trump supporters on january 6. that said, he was still a republican and he was a decades-long friend of john mccain, someone who had been floated as a potential running mate for john mccain in 2008 when colin powell instead shocked the country by endorsing the democratic candidate who was running against john mccain. he endorsed democratic candidate barack obama for president. that was two weeks before the election in 2008, and some people say that the election might as well have just ended then. if republicans needed permission to cross the aisle and vote for this democrat, barack obama, nobody could provide a more powerful permission slip than colin powell did two weeks before that election.
his political impact was profound, and it was complex. of course, in the first sentence of every obituary of general powell today, along with all of the firsts, and there were many of them, there is also the apex tragedy of his time in public life. his 76-minute-long speech in 1973 to the united nations in which he made a long, detailed, fairly impassioned and profoundly false case to the world that the united states needed to invade iraq and urgently. >> every statement i make today is backed up by sources, solid sources. these are not assertions. we're giving you facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence. >> i remember listening to that live when it happened, listening to those opening lines and being
bewildered that this man, colin powell, was making that case. the tragedy unfolded in iraq with the u.s. invasion, and in the eyes of everyone touched by that catastrophic war in those false pretenses. but the tragedy of the moment was because of who he was. it was only because general colin powell had so much credibility rightfully earned that they put him out to make the most unbelievable, unsustainable, ultimately unforgivable false argument for the iraq war. if they hadn't had him, they wouldn't have made the case that way. if they had only been able to put out someone of lesser stature, lesser reputation, less widespread respect. if they hadn't had him, they would have had to aim lower in making that case. the false pretext for the war was that much more false and
that much more spectacularly made specifically because they had him, because they had someone so respected to use as a mouthpiece for it. and for that, general colin powell lost to us today is a tragic figure. not a victim, he wasn't unwillingly or unwittingly used. he knew what was up. that speech is something he spoke bluntly about within two years of making it. it was a source of lifelong regret for him about which he was outspoken. and for all of us, we are all more than the worst thing that we have ever done, right? in the case of colin powell, he was so much more than that terrible worse thing that he did, which, again, was a lifelong source of regret and which will reflect forever our understanding of how he changed american life, american history in ways hard to attribute. it weighs large and small, but
large in ways that people who aren't u.s. presidents almost never, ever attain. joining us now is nbc news historian michael beschloss. mr. beschloss, it's wonderful to see you tonight. >> thank you, rachel, for having me, and you beautifully captured colin powell who we're thinking about tonight. >> let me tell you about this frame and why i wanted to call on you about it today. i do think there are, sort of in the early days of american history, some of the founding fathers, some of the important founding fathers were never presidents, and some of the most important figures in u.s. history, in our ancient history, were not presidents. but in modern time, i don't know of that many other figures that had the kind of direct personal inflection on u.s. history in military terms and in political terms and in our understanding of public service than colin
powell did. i mean, you're a presidential historian, but i didn't know who else to call today to get the big picture look at him besides you. >> you're absolutely right. you were talking about the fact that the gallup poll found him the most popular man of more than one year. how many non-presidents do that, or non-popes? pretty rare. it shows he was a figure in american history to the likes of general pershing and others -- >> sorry, michael, but i want to ask about his decision in 2008 to endorse then-candidate barack obama. i said slightly tongue in cheek that a lot of people looking back at that said, well, it's two weeks before the election but you could have ended the election then. it feels like such a determinative moment in that election. is it right to look at it that way? >> sure, it is, because barack
obama is not ready for prime time. if you and i had to choose one person two weeks before the election of 2008 to vouch for the fact that barack obama would not only protect the nation but be as -- powell called him a transformational figure that took the heart out of the argument. >> in terms of what happened in 2003, i was struck looking back at that timeline today that he had given that speech in february 2003. in 2004, he left government service. by 2005, he was giving national interviews sort of rending his heart over that, talking about how it was his responsibility and great regret for what he did. he didn't wait for ten years down the road. he was doing it in a matter of months. that feels like a singular tragedy, as i said, but a remarkable personal moment for him as a historical figure.
>> it tells everything about him. ralph mcnamara was fired. he still didn't know at that point whether lbj fired him or not, but he was having qualms about vietnam but waited almost 30 years to write a book that said, we all made mistakes in vietnam. we didn't all make them, he made them, and why did we have to wait for 30 years? in colin powell's case, this is someone with such integrity that he suffered from the fact that he had delivered that speech that allowed there to be a war that privately he had, at best, huge reservations about and probably did not want to see a war in iraq even though he thought there might be wmds, and at the same time if you were trying to torture colin powell, what's the one thing you would take away from him? his authority, his credibility. and that's what that speech did. it was unwitting because he
believed the intelligence he had studied. a lot of intelligence thought he was wrong, but the result was in that one moment of decade he is remembered for will take that to his grave. >> michael beschloss, msnbc historian, thank you for being here. it's a big loss for our country but his legacy will be studied for a long time, the good and the bad of it. thank you for helping us do that tonight. thank you. >> he was a great man. thank you for having me, rachel. be well. >> stay with us. ank you for hav. be well. >> stay with us. smelling fresh way longer than detergent alone. if you want laundry to smell fresh for weeks, make sure you have downy unstopables in-wash scent boosters. ♪ (vo) subaru presents... the underdogs. they may have lost an eye, or their hearing,
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political spy named richard steele as russia was trying to help get donald trump into the white house. the allegations in that dossier have been debated and litigated and dem and litigated and investigated and demagogued ever since. still being vekted by bill barr special counsel john durham. two years after the release of the mueller report, after being relentlessly attacked and dragged through the mud by president trump and allies, christopher steel himself is finally speaking for himself in an extensive interview with abc news's george stephanopoulos. it will drive critics insane he did it. steel is putting himself out there on camera and asserting none of what he reported in the dossier has been disproven and he says he stands by it. if anything, he says the mueller report reinforces it.
>> robert mueller said could not establish firm evidence of the criminal conspiracy. >> mueller was working to beyond reasonable doubt there was evidence in criminal cases and prosecutions and in much intelligence work you never get to the point where you're 99% certain of the evidence and secure a conviction. >> on the whole, does the mueller report reinforce the dossier or reinforce it? >> it reinforces it. there was a whole scale campaign that was organized by the leadership in russia. the aim was to get donald trump elected. and there was a lot of evidence of contacts between the trump campaign and russians which they didn't report and didn't admit to. >> so you stand by the dossier? >> i stand by the work we did, the sources that we had and the professionalism which we applied to it.
>> so you believe donald trump was clueding with the russians? >> i think that evidence suggests that, yes. >> i think the evidence suggests that, yes. that is christopher steel's view. you may be thinking what about that very specific allegations about the tape and the -- what about that? surely christopher steel is disavowing the part of the do dossier and donald trump with prostitutes and something that shouldn't happen on a bed. nope. steel says in his view he still thinks that tape probably exists. it remains his view there was collusion. he believes that tape probably exists. as for the other specific allegations, he remains adamant that none of them have been disproven and that will infuriate absolutely everyone. watch this face. everyone. watch this face. it all starts with the most innovative technology. like the new miracle-earmini, available exclusively at miracle-ear.
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potentially some big news coming on the issue of booster shots. you remember that last week an advisory panel to the fda discussed some promising data that suggested that mixing and matching doses of different vaccines could be safe. and it could be particularly effective for people who got the single dose of the johnson & johnson vaccine. tonight "the new york times" is reporting that the fda might grant approval for the mix and match approach as early as this week. on wednesday, day after tomorrow, the fda expected to authorize booster shots for moderna and j&j. the mix and match recommendation could come that same day on wednesday. the cdc will then have its booster shot meeting on thursday. what that means is it's possible that by the end of this week, all three available covid-19 vaccines may have an approved booster dose including the option for mixing and matching between brands. which, of course, would be a big deal. watch this space. ing. so you can bounce back fast with alka-seltzer plus.
all right. that is going to do it for us tonight the we'll see you again tomorrow. i'm scheduled to be hitting a grand slam for the boston red sox. everybody gets a turn. now it's time for ow the last word." good evening, lawrence. >> rachael, i don't get it. you're doing a live tv show from 9:00 to 10:00 p.m. i you don't see how you would have any idea how many grand slams have been hit in boston tonight. because, i he mean, how could you? u' -
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