tv The Beat With Ari Melber MSNBC October 19, 2021 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
get started today. thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we're grateful. hi, ari. >> hi, nicolle. welcome to "the beat." we're tracking a big story. news coming out of capitol hill is preparations are under way for a vote tonight to hold trump aide steve bannon in contempt of congress. here is what we know. tonight's vote is the first time the january 6th committee is using these powers to enforce its mandate. it's suggested they have to votes to hold him in contempt. now, if that happens, then congress hands a criminal referral of bannon to attorney
general garland, who can then make a call on whether or not to prosecute bannon. a conviction could land him in jail for over or about a year. the entire clash is not what democrats are aiming for. they pushed for bannon's cooperation to gather facts about the insurrection. he is the one escalating this with total defiance we've seen. he's following donald trump's calls to duck the request as it probes how so many people came to washington with such aggressive tactics and plans to storm the capitol, which they did. it's also eyeing statements like this from bannon to the maga faithful before the riot, a dark warning, this was on the eve of the gathering and the same day he reportedly met with trump's team. >> all hell is going to break loose tomorrow. just understand this. all hell is going to break loose tomorrow. it's going to be moving, it's going to be quick. >> the committee wants evidence and testimony from bannon on what he knew and why he was
talking like that and what kind of hell he was rooting for or plotting about. it's also released a new report about the case for contempt which draws on evidence suggesting that bannon played a multi facetted role in the events of january 6th, including speaking with trump directly. as for his pledges of hell breaking loose on january 6th, that was the same day that investigators in congress, according to what they've found, they say he joined a, quote, war room meeting with trump lawyers organized at the willard hotel. security failures and attacks on the united states are just about always met with investigations, it's literally part of congress' job. after the kennedy assassination or 9/11, few would suggest that the probes would not be cooperated with, let alone would you expect that from a former white house official in any
party. but here we are. this matters tonight. the vote congress will hold first in that committee room that we're keeping an eye on, our camera is in the hallways to see if there's any news before we begin, the vote is to compel cooperation and gather facts. that's its tactical purpose. before we bring in experts, i want to be clear about something else tonight with you, because we go through these news events together and the last five years a lot has happened. this is also tonight about something broader. it's about showing that the rule of law still matters, still functions in this country, against not only the formal insurrection that occurred on a single day, where where prosecutions continue against many of those individuals, but also dealing with an ongoing attack on democracy and the rule of law in america, which is now in front of all of our faces very much a feature of right
wing politics, where no democratic tradition in that view and what they're pushing for would be sacred. not the building that houses the actual representatives, not in its rules or demands. and apparently not the premise of democracy itself, that the peaceful transition of power be honored because it is more significant than who wins or loses any given election. that's what tonight is about. january 6th committee member congressman jamie raskin has agreed to join us. first we want to bring in our experts, michelle goldberg and former watergate prosecutor, nick ackerman. nick, your view of the stakes in this kind of clash, a field you know well. >> i think the stakes are extremely high. what's really important here is not only asserting the rule of law, but also congress asserting itself as a separate independent
branch of our government. you mentioned before that this would be going to the department of justice for criminal prosecution, but if you look at this resolution, it is not limited to just criminal contempt. basically the speaker of the house is allowed to take whatever action is necessary to enforce these subpoenas, which would include civil contempt, which in a way is counterintuitive because civil contempt actually has more teeth to it than criminal contempt. steve bannon knows he can go through discovery and it can take time before anything happens. before civil contempt, all they need to do is have the sergeant at arms go out, take steve bannon in, bring him to the committee room, sit him down and have him questioned. if he refuses to testify, he goes straight to jail.
he can come out of jail if, in fact, he decides he wants to testify. this is not an unusual power. i did this as an assistant u.s. attorney. i had a mob witness who was in a major crime family. i asked him one question, do you know frank sinatra, he refused to answer that the grounds that a truthful answer would incriminate him. i showed him an order that basically gave him immunity forcing him to testify. i asked him again, do you know frank sinatra. he refused to answer the question and spent time in prison. that's the same thing they can do with steve bannon. now, keep in mind, the major strategy here on trump's behalf is to run the clock. he wants to get everybody going for months on end in courts and tied up. certainly the civil contempt doesn't do that, but it's
certainly with either criminal or civil, he's still going to try and run the clock. but it's a lot harder to run the clock when you're sitting in prison. >> right. and the clock and leverage goes the other way. michelle, nick is reminding stuff of what we've been covering. there's more than one type of contempt. some people have actually been jailed under it, although the congressional version of that happens a little less often than others, than the prosecutorial. nick is absolutely right that this is part of what they're looking at. we have from the actual contempt report, which is what they'll be voting on, the possibility of civil, it says bannon's failure to respond to the subpoena could result in a referral to doj, as well as a responsibility of a civil action against bannon personally to enforce the subpoena. so he's up against a lot, michelle. what do you see here tonight? >> look, i would love to see congress kind of asserting its
prerogatives. that was something that jamie raskin talked about a lot when the trump administration was still looking at all the subpoenas and congress has powers it hasn't exercised. in some ways i think that would be more of an escalation than referring it to the justice department for possible prosecution. my guess is that that's what ends up happening. the question is merrick garland, who in some cases has been a reticent -- he's been anti-bill bar and that means a lot but in terms of vindicating the rule of law with regard to january 6th and the rule of law with regard to whether or not congressional subpoenas are going to be optional, you want someone, i think, who is going to be a bit more of a bulldog and we'll see if he steps up. >> yeah, and let's take a little
listen to how bannon is playing this today on his war room podcast. take a look. >> what actions, it's going to be actions that convince the deplore abls their votes are going to count. so what actions are they taking to make sure this is going to count. everybody says your vote counts. seth has made a name for himself going around the country. >> he almost see the tension there, michelle, of someone who is discussing voter turnout and republicans and firing up the base, which is standard and both parties do that, but against the backdrop of constantly having to echo trump's claims that everything is stolen. >> it tells us so much that youngkin goes on steve bannon's show in the first place. that's what you have to do to turn out republican voters and that's what hangs over the entire republican party, because
trump's demand of all of that is that they continue to echo this big lie and the threat that he has looming over them, if they don't do that he will discourage people from voting the way he discouraged people from voting in the georgia senate election that ended up flipping the senate for democrats. >> nick? >> no, look, i think they've got to be tough here. they've got to play hardball. they can't just sit back and let the trump people try and beat the clock. if you look at this resolution that they're voting on tonight, if you take this and you compare it to the supreme court case that came down by the supreme court as a result of the teapot dome scandal, which was the harding administration scandal, which was considered the presidential scandal until watergate came along. you look at that opinion and go through the resolution and they
have done a very good job of basically covering all the bases that the supreme court says ought to be covered if the congress is going to invoke its power of civil contempt. they particularize all of the reasons why they think bannon has information, who he has information about, where he was at the willard hotel, the headquarters of this group of people that were overseeing the insurrection that day. he talks about roger stone, who is a key player here. talks about rudy giuliani and the other lawyer who was involved. he goes through all of this. and basically this document, and steve bannon was arrested and brought into congress, this document would be exhibit a before any court where steve bannon would try to contest his arrest by congress. and that's what they should do.
>> let me take it to jamie raskin, who has the vote in the matter. i want to thank nick and michelle for kicking us off. i want to bring in congressman jamie raskin. what is the purpose of tonight's vote, and based on your knowledge of the committee, which has operated in somewhat bipartisan fashion, do you expect it to pass unanimously? >> it's operated in totally bipartisan fashion and it's actually the best committee i've ever been on in terms of people actually being focused on substance and not in a lot of rhetorical fire on the dias. we're receiving a report on the possibility of referring steve bannon for a criminal contempt prosecution for not showing up. you don't have the right in the united states of america if you get a subpoena from a court or from the united states congress just to blow it off and not show up. and that's precisely what he did. if he is guilty of something and
he's afraid he's going to implicate himself, he's got a right to show up and invoke the fifth amendment and the privilege against self-incrimination. then we have the right to offer him immunity in advance, to confer that upon him in advance. you don't have the right to blow off a subpoena. and i know there's a sense of entitlement and privilege among donald trump and his advisers that doesn't apply to the hundreds of people who are being prosecuted now for breaking into the building, smashing windows, beating up cops. those people, at least, are facing the rule of law and steve bannon and donald trump, of course, want to skip away, and we're not going to have it. >> so if this passes the committee tonight and the house floor, what is the likelihood that steve bannon ends up in jail? >> well, if he were to end up in jail under just a criminal contempt citation, it would be for the fact that he didn't show
up. and that's going to require a u.s. attorney to go to a grand jury, for the grand jury to be convinced and issue an indictment and for them to bring the charges against him. but as your guests were just pointing out, there's also the possibility of civil contempt as well, which is he could be facing civil contempt charges and that's the kind of contempt where the common law says you hold the key to your own freedom because you're essentially thrown in jail and here's the key. you can come out as soon as you decide to come and testify. that's another possibility. then there's another possibility of inherent contempt charges before the u.s. house of representatives itself. the supreme court has said that each house of congress in the aforementioned case, each house of congress has the author to bring civil contempt proceedings against people who act in contempt of the american people and act in contempt of the u.s.
congress, and also house of congress has the same authority that a court would to enforce its own orders. we're exploring every option we have to see that everybody follows the rule of law and we get the information we need in order to deliver a complete report to the american people about this attack on congress. >> when you lay that out, your answer sounds procedural. you're saying you have door number one, congress do it, itself, but congress hasn't done that since the '30s, you have civil, which takes longer, and the moment a person agrees to comply they get out of prison and that would be a civil suit filed by your committee, or the doj. so i guess what i'm asking you, if we take all of those options together, is it above or below 50% odds that steve bannon winds up in jail? because a lot of people are watching and saying, okay, complex history lessons, is he going to pay or not? >> i think he'll back down before he goes to jail.
i know he loves the attention. he relishes it. in some sense, that's why i'm a little disappointed he's getting so much attention out of this. but we're going to be going after anybody who doesn't comply. on door number two, it is not remotely a foregone conclusion that it takes longer under civil contempt than criminal contempt. i disagree with that conclusion. >> to get to your point, you're saying your framework is you think he will blink. you think you guys are putting on the pressure and this is a significant vote, put your expectation is when he sees door number two or three leading to a real chance of jail, you think he'll blink and try to cooperate with the investigation? >> i don't know exactly at what point in the process it will happen, but steve bannon is going to have to accept the fact that he's a u.s. citizen like everybody else and he's subject to the law and that doesn't just mean ripping off donald trump's
supporters and enjoying all the benefits that life in america has, including federal employment until you get fired. being an american citizen means that you have to follow this law, and in this case there was a massive attack which he knew a lot about on the democracy in an attempt to overthrow the election. he promised that all hell was going to break loose. they were clearly involved in an attempt at a political coup against vice president pence and a violent insurrection, which donald trump incited as robust bipartisan majority determined back in february. >> it's a big note and i know the vote is coming up. congressman raskin, thank you. >> the pleasure is all mine. congress can clearly do more than one thing at a time. there's this vote, but also ongoing negotiations and we have a look at how joe manchin has
demands for biden that might actually hurt some of his own constituents in west virginia. and later a fact check as we look at vaccine disinformation from police to colin powell. i want to tell you there's also good news tonight on covid dropping and then by the end of the hour, we become steve schmidt back to "the beat." stay with us. rd. get advice like: try hypnosis... or... quit cold turkey. kidding me?! instead, start small. with nicorette. which can lead to something big. start stopping with nicorette [coins clinking in jar] ♪ you can get it if you really want it, by jimmy cliff ♪ [suitcase closing] [gusts of wind] [ding] hearing is important to living life to the fullest. that's why inside every miracle-ear store, you'll find a better life. it all starts with the most innovative technology.
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president biden continues to press his economic agenda trying to hammer out a deal that at this point is about what he can work out in his own party. the president also met with the senate holdouts, manchin and sinema, and manchin spoke to reporters today. >> when does talking actually amount to action. >> we've got a lot of action going on. >> are you saying you oppose the climate tax or you aren't talking about it? carbon tax. >> carbon tax is not on the board at all. >> we're negotiating and talking about everything. >> talking about everything, but some things aren't on the table. this is manchin doing manchin and he is clearly trying to make sure some things aren't in the package while saying everything can be discussed. now, there's also a growing critique here that is not just arguing that manchin should be more liberal, because the party is liberal, but rather evidence
that some of what he's fighting to get out of this bill would actually be good for his constituents, that stripping it might hurt them. for example, manchin demands that the child tax credit include a work requirement, but a nobel prize economist notes that's an especially bad idea for west virginia. manchin trying to limit the tax credit to families that earn less than 60k, but there is evidence showing up to 190,000 children in west virginia would lose out on this benefit which comes from the federal government, should it would be help going into that state. then there's climate change and this is a biggie, because he has been very clear about trying to support business as usual in coal in west virginia. there's data that shows that west virginia is suffering more than almost anywhere from extreme weather. the times noting west virginia more exposed to worsening floods than literally anywhere else in the country. now, that is just "the new york
times." it's not liberal activists, per se. it is just data and evidence about what's going on in his state and it raises a larger question with a raiser thin majority in the senate of whether there's any room left for democratic leaders to push manchin on what is good for his constituents in his state, while also keeping this thing alive to get to the finish line before or near halloween, one of the deadlines. we're going to get into it with someone who knows the issue well, david plouffe, and someone who knows them from outside, libby casey, when we're back in 60 seconds. th proname ir toothpa, we can help actively repair enamel in its weakened state. it's innovative. my go to toothpaste is going to be pronamel repair. (burke) i've seen this movie before. my g(woman)othpaste you have? (burke) sure, this is the part where all is lost and the hero searches for hope. then, a mysterious figure reminds her that she has the farmers home policy perk, guaranteed replacement cost.
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what the agreement is yet. take a listen. >> we had a very spirited discussion at our lunch, passionate, strong, and there was universal agreement in that room that we have to come to an agreement. >> universal agreement we have to come to an agreement. david, no one envies his job, but, you know, come on, where are we here? >> well, ari, you and i have talked about this. my belief is this is where we're headed, which is they're going to get something done and something historic done. and i think what needs to happen -- when you're engaged in all the back and forth and sausage making it's not a pretty picture. but i think democrats across the board, members of congress, governors, mayors, need to be talking about the things we agree on. i think that's being lost, which is investments in preschool, child care, eldercare, making our tax system much more fair,
huge investments that republicans are blocking. as democrats are trying to build our economy the only thing republicans seem interested in doing is tearing down our democracy. it's never fun when you're going through the details but this is is not just a significant piece of legislation, these are two pieces of historic legislation that will help our economy and families for decades. there's no guarantees, the democrats will stay in the majority. i hope they will. so you better take a big swing now. that's where we're headed. i would like to see the democrats focus on what they agree on and who is going to be help by this legislation. >> mitch mcconnell is out there arguing, as this process plays out, it may be a drag on the democrats. take a look. >> the difficulty our democratic
friends are having getting everybody in place on this reckless tax and spend proposal, the longer this lays out there, the more unpopular it becomes. >> libby? >> so what he's focused on are the divisions within the democratic party. he's not talking about the things in the bill that are very popular when you lay them out to americans. when republicans talk about this, they talk about the bottom line, how much it's going to cost. and there hasn't been the nuance in the discussion really about there are a lot of pay fors in here and part of the process is democrats are trying to work out is how these things would be paid for. the more republicans can point to democrats fighting, the more they can focus on that. you didn't just hear chuck schumer coming out today, you also heard progressives coming out of a meeting with joe biden saying they are feeling
optimistic. there's an attempt to get a message of we are moving forward, we are getting somewhere and we're going to see president biden trying to sell this on the road. the clock is ticking. there are so many arbitrary deadlines in washington. but there are some very substantive deadlines coming up, like president biden going on the global stage to talk about the threats of climate change. if he can't go to glasgow, scotland, with something to talk about that america is doing it's going to be tough for leadership. that's one of the messages that president biden is trying to give to democrats this week. >> david, how about these reports and the criticism that some of what manchin is trying to strip out of the bill would be good for working people and lower economic households in his home state? >> well, ari, there's no question i think that pretty much everything in this package is going to be good for people in every state. there may be some specific things like on climate where west virginia would even be
helped. but manchin is where he is. maybe he'll move a little bit. it sounds like the ultimate price tag is going to be a little north of what his red line was. but i think we have to get to the declaring victory stage of this debate and go out and sell this. not just the president on the road, which will help every member of congress, he needs to be doing multiple events a week for the next 52 weeks. they need to be running campaign ads on this. we can be sophisticated with data these days so we know who benefitted. libby's point is right, the way this is paid for is more popular than all the programs. basically providing help to people tabing care of aging parents, giving workers assistance and child care and paying for that by taxing the wealthiest in this country. that is enormously powerful politics that the democrats need to sell, but they also need to make the case the republicans stood in opposition and if they gain power, they'll restore the tax cuts for the wealthy and give working people the shaft.
>> david, if we took this conversation and turned it into one of those government transcripts and then we read between the lines of what you're saying, it sounds like between the lines you're saying the democrats and your friends in the white house could be doing a better job on how to robustly push this right now than they are doing, although the skilled communicator that you are, you would never actually say that. >> well, listen, when you're in the middle of these negotiations that's all that tends to be covered. you're kind of shouting into a category 5 hurricane. that's in washington. out in the country -- and some members have done this, you ignore what's happening in the negotiations and go out and do events and messaging around what's in the bill. we've got catchup to do and we've got time. i always love mcconnell, my democratic friends, in his ghoulish way. there's plenty of time to go out and story tell. a lot of these benefits, unlike
the affordable care act, are going to be happening right away. you don't have to wait years for people to realize those benefits in their lives. >> and briefly, if this thing is on the road to passage, are there any republicans who want to come along to be able to say they supported some of the spending or some of the infrastructure? >> infrastructure, that's a different topic. but when you're talking about the president's build back better agenda, this is going have to be all democrats, that's why it's essential to work with senator sinema and manchin. we are watching the west virginia's race. that's another area where democrats would love to see a win before november 2nd. although they're already going to the polls. there are deadlines coming up that are putting the pressure on everyone, including joe manchin, to try to see something happen to sort of salvage the messaging democrats can do it. bernie sanders are writing an
op-ed in west virginia trying to communicate directly with west virginians to try to sell the agenda to them. no one likes it when another senator comes into their home state. senator sanders is saying we're talking about the pharmaceutical industry, we're talking about helping children, making your medication cheaper, so democrats are trying to find ways to get that message to constituents. the question is, can they get on the same page and pass something in the next couple of weeks heading into maybe the end of this year. >> david and libby, thank you both very much. when we come back, we go where "the daily show" is going, including inside the mind of some maga fans. >> wouldn't trump be reinstated as president? >> he's never left. there's no doubt in my mind. >> and steve bannon takes his cues from trump and there's no pardon that can save him this time. we are tracking the contempt vote happening tonight in the committee room. steve schmidt is here on all of
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i'm joined by steve schmidt, a political strategist who has now left the republican party. good to see you and have you back, sir. >> good to see you, ari. how are you? >> i'm good. we heard from congressman raskin earlier tonight about the prerogatives, the several options. his working theory is he thinks bannon will blink if this is credible threat of jail. your view of that comment from him and the import of tonight's vote. >> i think the vote is very important. i think that the committee has to show real steel here and cannot tolerate obstruction, whitewashing and evasions around getting to matters of fact around an insurrection that ended this country's history of a peaceful transition of power. and so this is a nation, at least for a little while longer, that remains a nation of the
rule of law. the congress has acted lawfully, the subpoena is lawful. he is required and compelled to respond to it as a citizen of the united states, should he seek not to do so, then he will face justice. and i think that's the message from the commit. now, whether he blinks or not, i have no idea. i'm not a psychologist. i don't know if steve bannon is trying to martyr himself, i don't know if steve bannon thinks that 12 months in the pokey is time to get in good shape and begin the next chapter of his career and write a book, like others have fun from the fascist movement. but in the end, what congress needs to do and to send a signal to all the witnesses, is you will comply with these lawful subpoenas and we will use the full weight, the full power of this committee under the constitution of the united states to enforce them, full
stop. >> and donald trump is out here urging defiance. it's one thing for people who are fan fiction and writing things online to react to that, it's another for those who would end up in the slammer and have their life affected that way. it's also a long ways from where bannon claimed to be because they did have a falling out, when i interviewed him once in his townhouse where he does some of his media and other political work, i pressed him on this point. i'm curious your reaction because apparently it's shifted. this is back when he was saying he didn't care much of what trump even thought of him. take a look. >> what's your current relationship with president trump? >> you can see it every day on tv. it's exactly what people report. president trump is doing his thing, i'm doing my thing. i didn't know president trump that well before i stepped in as ceo of the campaign. >> he said a lot about you when you had a public pardon. do you think he still believes those things about you?
>> i don't know and i don't care. >> steve? >> i don't care either. and i don't think any of it matters. donald trump doesn't have friends. donald trump doesn't have relationships. everyone needs to understand that. he has transactions. and he's in a transactional relationship with steve bannon. does it mean anything when steve bannon assembles a couple hundred alumni of republican administrations and prepares them for when they take power again to enter executive offices and rapidly deconstruct and tear down the institutions? that just happened. that has meaning. the meaning to me is that he presumes that he will once again be in power. if you consider the fact there's been three occasions in 120 years where the incumbent
president's party has picked up seats in the first midterm, when you look at democratic losses that will surely occur from redistricting, you look at how far and how hard the republican party has radicalized around the big lie, you look at the parity in fundraising, the lack of consequences, republicans are feeling very good about taking control of congress. and at that point being able to zero in and to destroy the biden administration's agenda completely, all the while trump is planning to run for president and remains the front runner for the party. that's what's going on. it has nothing to do with any of these people's relationships. >> and then you have, of course, a schizophrenic defense of january 6th. bannon and these folks are saying it was fine, in essence. then you've got other folks saying maybe it was bad, but it wasn't caused by trump maga
people, which is a type of lie or propaganda that matters. we mentioned "the daily show" was talking about this. >> people say trump, it's a cult, blah, blah, blah, but i feel like cult is such a negative word. we are not a cult. we are a group of americans that love our country and want it back. >> are there any things you hope you go back to? >> whatever spews out of his mouth, i love it. >> the people in that crowd did it. >> who was behind? >> antifa were used, other groups like that. >> it seemed like a lot of them were going into the capitol to attack nancy pelosi and perhaps hang -- >> who? which one? the one with the bull horns? he's not a trump supporter. >> steve? >> well, we have a large segment of the country that has opted out of reality and the number is
too high and we have to deal with the problem and get as many of them back to the reality side of the line over time. but right now a majority of the country is, in fact, not insane and we watched it play out. we watched trump incite it, we watched trump lie about the results of the election, we watched republicans after it condemn it before they forgot it, and before they became complicit in the whitewashing. what you saw was a fascist mob with extremist groups storm and murder in the capitol of the united states, deaf indicating in the hallways of the temples of democracy, urinating on the walls, carrying the confederate flag through the rotunda, ending the peaceful transition of power. we now know that there was a plan. there is a memo. there were meetings in the oval office around that memo.
for the president to deny the result of the freest and fairest election in american history and try to become a dictator. that is what happened. it couldn't be more serious. and so i think that two things, it's, one, you can't fix people who have opted out of reality. two, we need to understand the causes of their opting out of reality, which is partly trump's lying, but also a vast propaganda network that imprisons them to some degree to follow this bs. >> i think it's a very important point. steve schmidt with perspective. thank you. when we come back, we have good news on covid and a fact check on tucker carlson. nsurance, so i only pay for what i need. how about a throwback? ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪
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covid, and people get their information about it from different sources, which then inform these ongoing debates about how covid is going and what we should do about it. medical and journalistic sources are not random chatter from friends or facebook posts from who knows what it's by. i will tell you the press has a different issue. our approach and tone about covid does have its own shortcomings, one being we cover it more when things are bad and less when things are good, which is where this covid story is leading lately. the good news is after the delta surge, covid cases are dropping across america down 20% in the last two weeks alone and down by even more if you date back to the delta highs. so why are things getting a bit better right now? evidence shows the answer is vaccines and vaccine policy, by which i mean, vaccines cut the case load and related deaths over 99% of covid deaths are among the unvaccinated and
recent vaccine mandates, by which i refer to vaccine policy are increaing the number of people getting vaccinated, which helps with all this. take a look at the trends on this map. bright green shows higher vaccination rates and lower hospitalization rates, a good thing. the purple is where fewer people are getting vaccinated and that leads to more people who are so sick they need to go to the hospital. the map tells the story and it's all real data. after months of asking people to get vaccinated, federal policy is pushing towards largely requiring either vaccination or testing for most employees for example, which is spurring a shift. and other types of mandates are already in force which we know is juicing vaccination rates. so that means we have the facts to show mandates work. they make people safer where enforced. there can be valid debates over the tradeoffs.
you discuss this if works and it does. you say at what cost? people can debate the cost of personal liberty and nomonopolys about requiring vaccinations on the right and left air among maga and union leaders and sports leaders and police groups. the public health facts are clear. take this police example in the news this week. police officers have been dying more from covid than anything else, even in a job where they put their life on the line. more than 460 officers dying, the most common cause of duty related deaths is covid. "the new york times" notes. so that's not debatable. the debate is over how employers and the government balance these risks and how to choose whether you are going to compile with the rule or you want to object to it. of course, you own risk of covid can control those around you and people intent on misleading for their agenda. take the news with colin powell
dying. his immune system was weakened from his fight with cancer most likely. that's a known factor with the covid related death but tucker carlson said maybe the vaccine failed and last night at the end he had to issue a rare correction to his claims. >> colin powell was fully vaccinated against covid and yet, according to his family and doctors colin powell died of covid. of course, that fact does not make his death less sad or unusual. many thousands of vaccinated americans have died of covid. what does that tell you? you've been lied to. people who have been fully vaccinated can get the virus and transmit it and still die from covid. colin powell is hardly the only example of that. at the beginning of the show we told you about colin powell, we left out that colin powell was suffering from a number of different health problems, but
of course, that's the point. >> no, it's not. leaving out those other contributing causes of death was very misleading. it was not the point carlson was trying to make. the vaccines work, and if you want to look at the numbers, the death rate among fully vaccinated people is so small, it's under .01% over 180 million americans who have been fully vaccinated. over in florida you have the governor banning vaccine mandates and the mother of a teacher who just died of covid is speaking out. >> you can say i don't trust it. ir don't want to wear a mask. i don't want to get vaccinated. but the day you watch them -- you watch them rush into your son's room as he codes, you will regret everything in that moment. it will change your life.
>> that's someone who really lived through it. we begin with the premise all life has value and all people are equal but that doesn't mean that all people's knowledge is equal or that all people's experience is equal. that's someone who lived through it and that's different than people who may not have studied up on it or lived through it and are kind of echoing what they're hearing from misleading sources or media or a general know nothing mood. >> i just decided i'm not going to do it. i'm a guinea pig, if that's the case. >> also hasn't been proven to be effective. >> i'm not just going to jump on a band wagon with something that's not been tested. >> i don't trust it now. >> you're entitled to an opinion but these are facts. >> are they, though? are they facts? >> yes, they are facts. and as i emphasize and i go out of my way to say it respectfully, there is a tradeoff debate. there is a policy debate.
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committee will hold a vote whether to hold steve bannon in contempt of congress facing possible jail time. tomorrow we'll have reaction from a key member of the committee. congressman adam schiff will be on "the beat" tomorrow 6:0 p.m. eastern. join me for that and our special coverage of this historic night continues. "the reidout" with joy reid starts now. thanks for setting that up for us so well. we begin "the reidout" with a vote before the house select committee. let me start by explaining what is going to happen tonight. in 30 minutes from now the nine members on january 6th will convene a meeting to refer steve bannon for criminal charges. the long-time trump whisperer defied the subpoena refusing to even show up for his scheduled deposition last thursday. now he faces the consequences and let's just make it plain, the committee's investigation not only represents the last best chance to hold people accountable forhe
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