tv Deadline White House MSNBC October 26, 2021 1:00pm-3:00pm PDT
it's a race that has largely been nationalized at the most urgent chapter in president biden battle for the soul of america. president biden descending on virginia this evening just a few hours from now, going all in as the race described as quote, both the president and democratic party are embracing the notion that it is in large part, a referendum on their handling of the pandemic and their support of massive government spending programs as well as a broader reputeuation of the january 6 attacks on the united states capitol. it is a race that has captured national attention by encompassing many of the same flash points dominating local and national politics. with donald trump steering his party toward deepening political divisions, culture wars and lies about voter fraud. with the department of homeland security still on guard for how those divisions could incite future violent extremists. democratic candidate, terry
mcauliffe, has been out on the trail highlighting his republican opponent's work in furthering trump's agenda. take for example the recent rally for youngkin by none other than steve bannon who was just held in contempt of congress for obstructing the january 6 investigation with potential criminal charges coming his way from doj. it was an event that opened with a pledge of allegiance to a flag that was present at the insurrection, an event that featured a barrage of falsehoods about the 2020 election result and even includes a phone call from the disgraced ex-president himself. youngkin would distance himself from the event and would call the pledge, quote, weird and wrong. described him as walking a trump tight rope and keeping the president partly at arm's length, but the ties on the 2020 election are hardly foreign to youngkin. he made stolen election claims a center piece of his early
campaign, failing to ever publicly acknowledge that joe biden won the election until after he had secured his state's gop nomination for governor and he'll continue to call for an audit of voting machines in his state as recently as this month. now with the race in a statistical dead heat with exactly one week to go before the polls close, "the new york times" says youngkin is now training his focus on the classroom. quote, each candidate has landed on a favorite issue. both of which are likely to feature prominently elsewhere. for youngkin, his wedge issue is a war against school boards and a rallying cry for parental control of education. politico writes he's betting on parents anger with school boards nationwide recently making headlines for focusing on a parent who wanted to remove a tony morrison book from his son's curriculum. vowing to ban critical race theory even though it's not taught in virginia schools and
even attacking fbi for a new initiative to address violent threats directed at school officers and teachers. youngkin falsely claiming that the fbi is quote, trying to silence parents over an action attorney general garland says the merely designed to prevent violence. >> we are trying to prevent violence and threats of violence. it's not only about schools. we have similar concerns with election workers, with respect to hate crime, with respect to judges and police officers. this is a rising problem in the united states of threats of violence and we are trying to prevent the violence. >> the race for virginia governor is the latest litmus test for the gop's tolerance and appetite for potential of incitement of violence, which is where we start today. jonathan is here. politico's new bureau chief. also now the newly minted host of msnbc's way too early.
congratulations on all of that. also with us, former senator, claire mccaskill and "washington post" contributing columnist, former congresswoman, donna edwards. lucky for us, all three msnbc contributors. >> jonathan, how does it feel now that it's official? it's all yours. >> well, thank you. i appreciate that very much. it's been a great feeling. i'm honored to do it. certainly i aim to bring to 5:00 a.m. my reporter sensibleties and we'll start the day with the inside analysis, interviews that people need to begin their day. and everyone on this panel today, you have an open invitation. >> when i'm up walking my puppy, i'll tune in. i want to talk with you about the president's trip to stump for mcauliffe. talk about how the white house
sees this race then we'll head down to virginia. >> yeah. the white house is watching this wearily. they recognize here that this is fairly or not, it's a bellwether, a referendum. it's an off off year election. we saw that governor in california. this race, it's a dead heat and mcauliffe and biden are fairly similarly in terms of their ideology. more moderate democrats. this is a state joe biden won by ten points just a year ago. we know the president's poll numbers have sagged in the wake of the afghanistan withdrawal. in the wake of covid cases surging over the summer, now of course declining, and in the wake of the seemingly stalled negotiations in congress over his agenda. mcauliffe has issued an unpres debited plea to get the
infrastructure bill done so he has something to run on. the white house is hopefully making progress, but they're not there just yet. we've seen heavy hitters from the democratic party go out there. president obama, the first lady, the president and joe biden. white house aides say they think mcauliffe will pull this out. they think it will be close and that's a warning sign going forward. >> let me read to you, claire mccaskill, what "the washington post" writes. a wealthy kmektive turned political newcomer, he has what amounts to a conventional republican campaign. seeking to court rule white conservatives and moderates, but he's encouraged republicans who swallowed former president trump's lie that last year's election was stolen and that american elections are not to be trusted. at a moment when democracy is under assault, he chose to --
rather than stand up squarely for the truth. in doing so, he proved himself unfit for office. so that man is currently neck and neck in the polls with mcauliffe. what do you think that's about, claire? >> well, this is going to be really interesting because there are a lot of republican office holders that are watching this carefully to see if they can get away with this. and that is trying to have it both ways. this man can't get elected without trump voters and he can't get elected holding hands with trump so he's trying to be all things to all people and usually voters smell out that kind of phoniness. i have a hard time believing the suburban moderates who voted for trump are going to say, oh, yeah, we're going to go with this guy who's all squishy about whether or not trump is a good
guy or a bad guy. about whether or not he actually won the election or didn't win the election. and if he pulls this off, they're going to be so many republican senators going, whew, we can do this. we can keep pretending that trump is not a nut ball who is embarrassing our country on a national stage. continuing to embarrass our country on a national stage. i know trump motivated democratic voters so it's not surprising that mcauliffe is making that the theme of his election. but this is all about turnout. about whether or not democratic voters are so frustrated with the gridlock within the democratic party that they stay home. >> what's your prediction, claire? >> i think they'll come out. i think they will be closer than the state is. i think virginia is a blue state at this point. it's going to feel purple, i think, next tuesday night, but i
believe mcauliffe will squeak it out because of donald trump. >> let me show everyone what the closing arguments are in this race. and i know from my own time on campaigns that whatever you are closing with seven days out is sort of the last thing voters have on their mind when they go to the polls. the last cycle that penetrates all the way through. this is mr. youngkin's closing message. with only a week to go, he released an ad featuring a fairfax county resident who waged a battle in schools beginning in 2013, after her son said it gave him nightmares while reading for an advanced placement literature class. this is mcauliffe's response then as the final feud plays in 2021, the united states of america. mcauliffe responded like this, glenn youngkin has doubled down on the same culture wars that
have fueled his campaign from the beginning. his message of book banning and silencing esteemed black authors is a racist dog whistle. mainly his top endorser and surrogate, donald trump. cynical, depressing, appalling, but to claire's point, we all have to watch and see if this is what sells on the right. >> well, in the list of things that "the washington post" outlined in their editorial, i would add to that race baiting. as you can see in these closing ads. youngkin spent the time advertising on television and i know because i live in the washington region. i see the ads. pretending that he was a garden variety, old school conservative republican. meanwhile, he's out on the campaign trial race baiting, embracing this idea of election integrity, challenging the virginia elections, and buying
into donald trump's tropes. and i think that he embraced himself with donald trump early on in this campaign and that really has never left. i think at the end of the day, that democrats are going to be able to drive up the turnout where they need to. that's the reason that president biden is coming to virginia. it's the reason that barack obama and other high profile surrogates have been in virginia and i think that this is all about turnout. about making sure that people understand what's at stake. i think president biden will make that case tonight. glenn youngkin is the worst because he pretends to be one thing but at the bottom of it, he is a race baiting, divisive aligned with the insurrectionist kind of republican in the state of virginia and i hope that they turn him back. >> and jonathan, you mentioned
president obama. everyone has mentioned president obama's turn on the stump for terry mcauliffe. that was his message. let me read this. he said when your supporters hold a rally where they pledge allegiance to a flag flown at the insurrection, the biggest threat to democracy in my lifetime, when you don't separate yourselves from them, it's a problem. is the president expected to make an argument along those lines? that this is someone so out of the mainstream, someone standing with those who brought their flags to the insurrection. >> yeah, some of biden's advisers have made that exact point. they acknowledge that mr. youngkin, to this point, has you know, just simply grading on his performance, has threaded the needle pretty well in terms of not fully rejecting donald trump to the point where trump would
encourage trump's wrath, but at the same time, keeping enough of his distance to appeal to republicans in the state that is far more purple leaning blue than many others in the country. other part of the state are fairly red, still. but it is n. the message we expect to hear from president biden is a solemn warning. the idea that if this case, if a democrat were to lose, not only could it immediately just send shiver up the spine of democrats and cause them to think twice about casting difficult votes for biden's agenda, but it's more about opening the door for what could come next. like giving license to republicanss, you're going to pay no penalty here for supporting january 6th. he criticized the flag, but he hasn't distanced himself from trump fully. he's had insurrectionists there to support him and has welcomed that support and if he were to win, it would give free license
to other republicans to potentially if they were to win, too, you know, what kind of place would the country be in? that's the president's message tonight. there is concern that this is something where the republicans have at this point, effectively down played what happened on january 6th and have whitewashes that day for so many of their supporters and independents who initially were so horrified by it, but now seem to come to peace with it. >> claire mccaskill, there is palpable dread on your face and donna edwards. what is the problem? donald trump is worse. we know that he is far worse than any of the four of us thought he was while he was president. we know that he tried to get his department of justice to declare the election corrupt and the rest of the gop bozos would carry out the rest. we're learning more details of just how committed he was to carrying out a coup plot. why aren't the democrats fired
up? >> i think they are frustrated because we're fighting among ourselves and keep in mind now, virginia has a front row seat to all this. the media in virginia is dominated most voters, the media is dominated by what's going on in washington because they're so close to the nation's capitol, but let's just boil this down. you talked about their closing arguments and you're exactly right. i decided my closing argument many times in campaigns. it's very important because many voters only tune in at the end. so what we had in the closing argument was trump versus culture wars. keep in mind the culture wars had been working for the republican party. they no longer talk about economics or deficits or trade policy or foreign policy. it is all about phony culture wars. democrats won and beat a record turnout for donald trump by using donald trump's norm
busting bad behavior. and so that's what it's going to boil down to on tuesday. will the culture wars win and if they do, what does that mean to the democratic party going forward or will donald trump still be the best way we have of getting democratic voters out and democratic candidates elected. >> you know, donna, i spent my time and i have shared my regret and remorse many, many times, but a republican would be running on all the stuff biden got done early in his presidency. we were on a path to unprecedented death and despair and destruction. the president turned that around, distributing the vaccine. i think every person in american now lives within five miles of a shot. it was a massive change in how the federal government sought to meet people in their real lives. he's fighting for infrastructure. i don't understand why democrats aren't also running on their own accomplishments thus far.
>> i think it's complicated. i do think the media environment contributes to that. you know, as claire said, although all of virginia obviously isn't in the washington media market, the vote rich areas of northern virginia are. and i think people you know, hear this. but here's what i think is difference is. i've been talking to my contacts in virginia throughout the state. they are at the doors. they are on the phones talking with voters in the richmond area, on the shore, on the eastern shore, and in the metropolitan washington area. they know that this is an election that's about turnout and it's not a surprise and it has been a nationalized election. there are only two governors races up in november. and i think that it's important for the president to go into those places and to talk to democrats. keep in mind what president biden will be doing on behalf of terry mcauliffe is speaking to
democrats. that's who we need energized. he's not speaking to all those other voters. he'll be able to talk about his accomplishments and i think it's frustrating to have been engaged in this battle over build back better and wanting to bring it to home plate in this late stage, but mcauliffe has run a campaign that's connected to communities and i think those voters are going to show up. >> claire, we have spent a lot of time here covering what texas has done to reproductive liberties in america. we've all talked about watching the supreme court. governors race, it would appear the stake is no less than overturning roe versus wade in their states. what else do democrats need to be fired up other than this very respectable record on the pandemic? the stakes of roe versus wade being overturned and a guy, you
know, buddied up, wrapped around arms and legs the insurrection in chief, donald trump. >> well, i think you've hit on one thing. and i do believe the democrats have failed to wage our own culture wars. culture wars and equality and freedom. because we are the party that at this juncture is really fighting for equality and freedom. freedom to be able to vote. freedom to not have a vigilante following you to your doctor's office or spying on you in order to collect a bounty if you take the morning after pill if you've been raped. these are powerful culture wars democrats should be waging. but we typically have not done that. we've typically been policy heavy and in this instance, when you're trying to motivate voters, the secret weapon is donald trump to motivate voters. unfortunately, i wish it weren't that way, but i do think we
should look and see what the republicans have done with culture wars and take that part of that fight that most americans agree with us. whether it's guns or reproductive freedom or access to vote. those are all important issues in culture wars and we should make them much more front and center than we have. >> okay, so claire, you just tantalized and awoke the former political operative in me so we have to keep going. what does that look like? here's where i lose the plot on the democratic thinking and the lack of being on offense. a majority of pro-life republicans are against the texas bill. every republican-led state has said they're going to take a look at the texas ban which bans essentially all abortions. anything that takes place after six weeks. they don't have their own party behind policies that extreme. how do you get democrats to wage a culture war that unites the vast majority of american people? >> first of all, i think they've
got to be smart about messaging and they've got to be disciplined about messaging because part of the problem is if you look at the culture war that the republicans do, they pick off a tiny piece of something, right? they offer freedom except freedom to protest by kneeling during the national anthem then there's no freedom. they can't be against guy rights because everybody's for gay rights, but they can be against trans using bathrooms and worrying about bathrooms. so we've got to do the same thing. they are trying to go after women for, at the moment of fertilization. and so they are going to do away with iuds. they're going to do away with in vitro fertilization. they're going to send out vigilantes. it really is offensive to people.
and i would agree with you that there are other things they should be talking about. jobs are up. wages are up. the deficit is down. what's wrong with that? we've got economics on our side right now. >> you will never be done explaining psychology of being a democrat to me. jonathan, donna, thank you so much. claire sticks around. when we come back, as facebook continues to face new scrutiny, a lot of it from inside, there's reporting today offering another cultural flash point where facebook front and center. the road ahead for the social media giant. plus, officer fanone saying the american people deserve to know who participated in what he says is sedition against our country. and later in the program, desperation by republicans to control elections nationwide. the tipping point for democrats who are seeking to preserve american democracy all by themselves. all those stories and more when
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you cannot trust big tech with your kids. this moment is for big tech a big tobacco moment. it is a moment of reckoning. fact is that like tobacco, big tech has lured teens knowing its products can be harmful and like tobacco, facebook hid from parents and the public substantial evidence that instagram could have a negative
effect on teen health. our goal is not to burn facebook to the ground. to impose accountability. >> that was is that right richard blumenthal at a hearing today calling out the toxicity of online platforms. this comes amid new reporting from "the new york times" about the role big tech plays before protests in wisconsin turned deadly last summer. the footage ran on fox news and news max. it fueled rivers and conspiracy theories, conversations within the white house which themselves fell back on to fox news. it ricochetted around the online platforms by the third day, august 25th, were convinced they had to do something. who, when reaching for an explanation would often reach for a video. when i asked a local man what possessed him to leave his home armed with a rifle to attend a pizza place across town, he
directed me to the footage of the beating outside the danish brotherhood lodge. quote, this, he wrote this to me in a facebook message, is what triggered us citizens that day. then specifically about kyle writtenhous, who was accused of killing two people and injuried a third. quote, prosecutors have yet to produce evidence that he held extremist views. throughout the evening, he was surrounded by men who were undisciplined with their firearms and more aggressive toward the demonstrators. the facebook pages and reddit threads were full of fantasies about shooting people in the streets. joining us now, one of the most widely listened to, watched and respects journalist in the country. cara swisher, host of the podcast, sway and pivot. i've wanted to talk to you for so long about everything that's happened and i feel like we've been having the conversation for
five years, what is wrong with facebook. but i'm wondering if you can help me understand what's happening at facebook right now. >> well, actually, it's really interesting because there's sort of a rebellion within the ranks. that's what happened with the whistleblower and others who are leaking things. former facebook people talking about rather significantly now and that hasn't happened before. so frances haugen has set off what has been clearly happening within facebook for months now, which is a real group of people who are sick and tired of what's happening within facebook and want to change it because they can't get their management to change it. >> i understand that they're so big they can't please everything, but what i don't understand is why they don't react like a human being when bad behavior is identified. i went back and listened to some of your interviews with mark zuckerberg. this was on facebook around the kyle writtenhaus killings --
take up arms and let's defend our city. meet at civic center park at 8:00 p.m. piled up hundreds of rsvps. he says to you, we're not going to let people plan violence or attack each other. let me play some of the interview. >> we're not going to let people plan violence or attack each other or do bad things. we feel like our responsibility is to prevent hoaxes from going viral and being widely distributed. >> okay. >> so the approach that we've taken to false news is not that, not to say you can't say something wrong on the internet. everyone gets things wrong. if we were taking down people's accounts when they got a few things wrong, then that would be a hard world for giving people a voice and for saying that you
care about that. but at the same time, we have a responsibility, if you look at the top hundred things that are going viral or getting distribution on facebook within a day, i think we have a responsibility to make sure that those aren't hoaxes and misinformation. >> literally the opposite is true. facebook's brand mission statement could be hoaxes going viral and being widely distributed on our platform. that is what they do. >> they do. that was an interesting conversation because then we got into these issues around holocaust deniers and immediately he said they don't mean to lie. i thought, o goodness, really. i think that's the definition of what they do. he then went on to make a mess of it and saying that he would keep them on the platform. two years later, he changed his opinion and did what i had been talking to him about. so that's what happens here is it's sort of the education of
mark zuckerberg at the expense of the rest of us. i don't think he's a bad person. i know a lot of people are sort of attacking him for various things, but i think he's incapable of dealing with what he's created. it's not the person that's bad. it's the architecture of facebook. the problem is what do you do about that at this point given how big it is. >> i want to understand more about whether internally, there's some sort of tipping point that zuckerberg has on his hands. a little of this is working inside government during controversial times. there's never one whistleblower. always one that opens the door for the second which opens the door for the third which opens the door for mass resignations, investigations. do they understand that that is the precipice at which they sit? >> i think they've escaped it so many times they think they're
going to sort of brazen it out again because they've done it a number of times, the kind of thing. there's been sort of mini or smaller crisis, but crisis none is. there's a couple of things they might do. on thursday, supposedly, this has been a lot of reporting, they're going to change the name of the company and create a larger conglomerate that holds all the different divisions of facebook of which there are many. instagram, occulus. he might not be the ceo of facebook anymore. he might put someone in place then become the ceo of this other corporation and essentially disappear because he's the personification of the problem and that's unfortunately the problem with a lot of founders and so it will be interesting to see what they do on that, but that might be a tactic they use to move him out of the spotlight. >> do they have any shame about
their role in spreading disinformation and i wasn't even really aware of how saturated right wing disinformation gets on facebook until i went out and interviewed trump voters in 2016 and i asked a question, where do you get your information about mike flynn or jim comey. none of them said fox news. not one of them were fox news viewers. they got all their news on facebook. >> yes, they did. it's become the most important distribution news some throughout the world and in this country, it's not as big as it is in other countries. that's one of the things this document is showing, the damage in other county tr is because of this. i did a great interview with the woman who won the nobel peace prize. she was the first person who started me down this path in 2015 showing me data that showed enormous attacks by the government on her and her company, an investigative online
publication, i guess you would call it. one of the thing that was interesting, she had the data, warned mark zuckerberg, cherl sandburg. in the world right now, facebook is the internet. is the internet, period. >> i want to ask you to be prescriptive for us. we're going to talk more about facebook's future as congress tries to figure out how and if to regulate it. and the news that they're considering a name change. but first, i want to tell viewers about breaking news. an fda advisory panel has voted to recommend pfizer's covid-19 vaccination for kids 5-11. it's a long awaited hurdle that the vaccine has now cleared. news many, many parents across the country have been waiting for. the vote will be put to the fda itself, which is expected to make a final ruling in the coming days.
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reporting by 17 media outlets was quote, an effort to leak documents about our company. so far, papers detail the role in hate speech and zuckerberg's personal role in facilitating government censorship abroad. it is no wonder that there are reports that facebook intended to rebrand itself with a name change. joining me now, donny deutsch. i want to bring you in in a second, but i want to ask you, kara, about something our friend, steve schmidt, accused facebook of doing. he called it algorithmic imprisonment. >> not sure what that word means. it is kind of funny that mark's quote, that was kind of a very hostile quote by him, which signals a lot of fear and worry about himself. it says to me that someone whose platform is accused of trafficking and conspiracy theories is now alleging a
conspiracy theory. among 17 different news organizations. obviously, this has been well coordinated by the whistleblower and so what. she knows what she's up against, but i think to call it, he's sort of calling it a conspiracy theory, i think that's what's going on there. >> that's what it sounds like. and my time in politics when you have no facts and you have no high ground, you allege malarky or a conspiracy theory. donny, i want to bring you in on this notion of a name change. you can't be as big as facebook and sweep your problems under the rug by changing your name, can you? >> well, it's a strategic decision. they want to be known, the future according to zuckerberg, he's not wrong, is everything is virtual reality and what he's calling the metaverse, where social media and the internet meet virtual reality. they just invested $10 billion in it. he wants to known, it's like say facebook is the cigarette company, but they're into other things that it's just a piece of
it and that abc company just like google i the holding company is where people pay attention to. it's a tactic, but it's not going the change the problems they have. i want to push back on something kara said because she's always the smartest person in the room. that you know, we have to hold people accountable. when you say things like he's not a bad guy, and i don't know zuckerberg, but he's worth $150 billion. a trillion and a half dollar company. he is responsible. his company, which he controls unilaterally along with sheryl sandberg, is responsible for 50% of the news that goes out and is responsible for all the misinformation about january 6th. is responsible for all the misinformation about vaccines and violence that i don't, seems a nice guy. sorry, if i had that much money and i was in control of this, i would feel responsible. i would feel the moral center. >> yes. >> to take whatever steps -- i
think it's the same with people like ted cruz. well, he's smart because he went to harvard. no, he's not smart. we can't say zuckerberg's not a bad guy. he is a bad guy. >> i think, all right, let me clarify. i think a lot of this stuff goes into his personal looks, all kinds of things. >> no, not that. >> architecture. i think he gets a lot of that and it takes away from the real point which is that this guy cannot run this company in the way it needs to be run because anyone could have a difficult time dealing with all these social, political, everything else that's happened on facebook and he's entirely incompetent to the task, even though he's a terrific technologist. i think one of the issues we have here is everything is within mark zuckerberg and it's a bigger, larger problem the fact that congress hasn't done a thing to regulate any of tech. if you want to add up all the laws that help regulate tech, you'd come to the number, zero.
is that a number? anyway. it would be zero. and we haven't had any. let's focus on the people that have the pour to do something, which is congress, which can't seem to agree on lunch at this point. they are coming together on big tech and we have to move beyond zuckerberg and start to regulate in some way a lot of this stuff around data, around privacy. and all kind of areas and stop arguing about free speech. and discuss large companies that have enormous power over all of us, especially during the pandemic which allowed mark zuckerberg to become that rich or any of them to become that wealthy. i think focusing on him is a mistake. >> let me follow. i see it as donny sees it. i don't have the relationships, the expertise in tech, but people make the tobacco parallel. i don't think that's strong enough. tobacco companies knew they were killing people. i don't think they felt bad, but they didn't really resist warnings saying these are cancer sticks.
they'll kill you. facebook, and i know some people, they think they're benevolent and they're not. how do you reframe what they actually are in society in their own minds? >> i think one of the problems they have is they feel like they've done a lot of good and everybody's focused on the bad. that's unfortunate, but they're the richest and most powerful people in the world and they can do it. i think imagining that they thought this was going to happen. in the case of the cigarette companies, there was evidence they knew exactly what they were doing. and in this case, finally, there were the receipts that they were aware of these massive problems. i think in that case, congress has to move in and do something about it. you're right. they're not the cigarette companies. not the opioid company, although there are addictive elements. you could go through lots of metaphors and try to figure out which it is, but it's an issue across the entire spectrum. youtube has to be in here and many other sites have to be in here. it's about power and control over society in areas that are
very difficult, that have become very difficult and amplified what is a partisan atmosphere in this country and throughout democracies. >> donny, where would you start if you were going to not just regulate, but try to reform the behavior? >> the algorithms. this is what a lot of the expose has talked about. if there's an emoji, some emotional emoji comes up to the top, the kind of dastardly way in which they cor core graph th it's got to start with the algorithms. >> what's the chance of that happening? >> i think that's very difficult. i think it's a multifaceted approach, including the fact there's no such thing as big tech. there's big tech companies, but no one big thing. there's privacy regulation. there's allowing our government
agencies have more money and staff. right now, facebook is more pr people. jokingly, there's six of them on me right now. i think one of the issues is we've got to think of it in many ways then there's lawsuits and then the most important thing of all is the reform of antitrust legislation so that things, ftc and the justice department can do something because right now, courts have been overruling this stuff because the way we have been doing antitrust for 100 years or more is, has changed rather dramatically. so it's a multifaceted approach and it's not easy, but every bit will affect everything else and i think that's the problem is there's no easy thing to do to fix this and then there's all the issues around young people. another thing. that's yet another add to the log pile here of this terrible bonfire. >> it deserves as much attention as we've paid. so we'll stick a pin in that and i'd like for both of you to come back. thank you so much for spending
some time with us today. >> thanks. up next, as investigators work to find out who helped plan the insurrection on january 6th, one member of congress today said he'd be darn proud to have his staff take part in the deadly day. that really happened and it's next. adly day that really happened and it's next we're making the fagioli! ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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elected leaders, staff members who may have conspired in the activities of that day. i think that their constituents and the american people deserve to know if there were individuals who participated in sedition against this country. >> calling it sedition now as we should. this morning, d.c. police officer michael fanone demanding answers about the planning behind january 6th that may have led to the riot where he was dragged and beaten by insurrectionists. as the january 6th committee works to get to the bottom of all of it, at least one republican member of congress says he would be proud of his staff if they contributed to the rally that led to fanone's pain and suffering, physical and mental. in the deadly attack. republican congressman mo brooks of alabama denied involvement in planning that morning's insurrection or the rally where he spoke. and the same one he admittedly wore body armor to. he tells the birmingham news
this. "i don't know if my staff did. quite frankly, i would be proud of them if they did help organize a first amendment rally to protest voter fraud and election theft." of course there was no voter fraud or election theft, but that didn't stop him. joining our conversation, msnbc legal analyst joyce vance, former u.s. attorney, now law professor at the university of alabama, claire still here. claire, absolutely ghoulish to hear a person paid by the taxpayers of this country say he would be proud of someone who planned the events that led to law enforcement officers dying by suicide, being maimed in that event, many of them still suffering from their injuries and ptsd. >> yeah, and by the way, i know my friend, joyce, will back me up on this. when you know there's a problem is when someone obviously is lying when they talk. when he says he doesn't know whether his staff participated, that's a lie. that's just a big fat lie.
he knows if his staff participated. he knows exactly what his staff was doing. and frankly, i think electronic phone records and other records could show what he was doing. i mean, we've got to get all of the information, all of the documentary evidence, the electronic evidence around the willard war room. who was there, who was talking to the people who were there, who had talked to them within days, clearly they planned this. and him throwing his staff under the bus and lying about whether he knew about it is not going to help him. >> joyce, i've been a white house staffer, and all these fights taking place certainly don't apply to a capitol hill staffer, say, for example, a member of the staff of mo brooks. why aren't there electronic records to the select committee today? >> they should all be to the select committee, and claire's absolutely right when she says
that all of the documentary and electronic evidence is important here. every time mo brooks or someone else who was involved in the rally opens their mouth and tries to make an exculpatory statement excusing their behavior, i just have more questions, and i assume that both congressional investigators and the folks at doj do too. is brooks just talking about the rally at the ellipse? or is he talking about the attack on the capitol? and as claire says, and this is what rings so untrue in the whole statement, the notion that he didn't know whether or not his staff was involved in planning this event that he spoke out where he actually took the podium and said it was time to take names and kick, we all know what he said, and then there's this incredible moment where we learn that he's wearing body armor, which is uncomfortable and heavy and takes a little bit of planning to get it, so what was it that his involvement in the war room at the willard told him about this event? so many questions that need to
be answered, under oath, for the american people so that as officer fanone says, we can get to the truth that we're all entitled to. >> claire, it is merrick garland prosecutes steve bannon for contempt of congress? >> he should. he should. and he should do it quickly. this -- you know, every day that passes, i mean, i will just tell you this, and i know joyce was a federal prosecutor, but you know, they make molasses look like it moves quickly. i mean, the feds are notoriously slow. that's because they don't have to respond to 911 calls. they can ponder and they can go down one other alley. i mean, come on. this is really straightforward. either you're going to or you're not. you're either going to appoint a special counsel to do it or you're not. and every day that passes is a win for the people who planned the insurrection. it's a win for donald trump and
his lying bunch of clown lawyers, and i do not understand why merrick garland cannot make a decision today. he's still got a couple hours before the close of business. >> well, if it happens in the next 1 hour and 3 minutes, we'll call both of your back to your cameras. joyce vance, claire mccaskill, thank you so much. the next hour of "deadline white house" starts after a quick break. don't go anywhere. s after a quick break. don't go anywhere. that there is no place like wayfair. i never thought i'd buy a pink velvet sofa, but when i saw it, i was like 'ah'. and then i sat on it, and i was like 'ooh'. ooh! stylish and napable. okay now. i can relate to this one. i'm a working mom with three boys. [ yelling ] wayfair is my therapy. amen, kim! yup! i'm hiding from my kids, as we speak. i brought in ensure max protein, with thirty grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks! ( sighs wearily ) here, i'll take that!
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a bill about protecting the vote in america. we can't even debate a bill that would end gerrymandering, we can't even debate a bill that would at least push back against dark money. i think what they're doing is wrong and as i say, shameful. but i've long been in favor of getting rid of the filibuster. and i think that the need to protect the vote is like the sharpest example of why we need to get rid of the filibuster. >> hi again, everyone, 5:00 in new york. now unless senator elizabeth warren is able to convince every single one of her democratic colleagues in the senate that she is correct in everything she just uttered, federal legislation to deal with gerrymandering and voter suppression and voter nullification is dead. and that inconvenient and uncomfortable and tragic truth has some democrats at a tipping point. the atlanta journal constitution reports natasha brown tells them
she blames republicans who have used numerous filibusters to block measures key to the biden administration's agenda for being obstructionist but brown wants to see more action and less talk from democrats. she knows that washington is controlled by democrats today, partially because of activists such as her who worked tirelessly through the 2020 presidential election and the january u.s. senate runoffs in georgia. she and many other activists perceive the larger issue is democrats' reluctance to alter the filibuster. charles blow of the "new york times" writes this about the filibuster. "defenders of the administration's approach tell us this is all part of the choreography of washington, this is the dance that must be danced and in the end, it will all work out. some version of the spending bill will be passed, which will free the president to defend voting rights more forcefully. i hope that all of this is true. i think we need what's in the spending bill. it's just that we need voting more." because if americans are not able to cast their ballots or if they cast their ballots and
they're thrown out by partisan actors, where does that leave any of us? where does that leave our democracy? the man at the forefront of the legal voting rights writes this. "republicans have an election fraud problem. no matter how hard they look, they can't seem to find any. the crown jewel of right-wing fraud propaganda, the heritage foundation's election fraud database, only claimed that there had been 1,032 instances of proven voter fraud in 30 years. when you consider there are thousands of state and local elections, it's a drop in the ocean, not a bucket." which brings us to where we are now. in their desperation, republicans are developing new definitions of fraud to undo future elections that they don't like. ergo, the new laws we've seen enacted at alarming speed. of them, elias writes this. "each of these new provisions transforms normal, even exemplary behavior into voter fraud. provide water to the thirsty.
fraud. help citizens apply for absentee ballots. fraud. prevent mass challenges to lawful votes. fraud. by manufacturing fraud from ordinary activity, republicans create the foundation to challenge election results in 2022 and 2024. by manufacturing fake fraud, these new laws provide defeated candidates in 2022 and 2024 with the propaganda necessary to support their own big lies in the future. the increasingly shameful and desperate fight to preserve american democracy from republicans is where we start this hour with the aforementioned marc elias. you know, i love that elizabeth warren outburst about what is shameful. what is shameful is the republicans' effort to do exactly what you articulate there. they're making it -- they're changing with the definition of fraud is. to these government practices, as you so correctly point out, so that next time, when they
claim they didn't really lose, they were just the victims of fraud, they'll have a legislative ground to stand on. >> that's exactly right, nicole. i mean, this is, i think, part of the republican long game. they realize that they lost in 2020 because more people voted for joe biden than voted for donald trump. and donald trump tried a version of this in the big lie, to claim that it was the result of fraud, but of course, there was no fraud. there was nothing fraudulent in the election for him to grasp on to. so what republicans are doing now is they are redefining ordinary and even exemplary behavior and redefining it to be fraudulent so that when people engage in this behavior, like handing a bottle of water to someone who's thirsty, the republicans can now say, you see, that was all fraudulent. and it's a really pernicious way that i think republicans are preparing to challenge the
results of the elections in the future. >> i want to ask you about the cases that you and your team have filed, but i want to read some more from your new piece about fake fraud. you write, the primary audience for this macabre spectacle will not be the courts. even the most conservative judges are hesitant to throw out an election based on manufactured evidence of fake fraud. instead, their audience will be partisan officials responsible for counting ballots and certifying election. these officials, ranging from county canvas board members to secretaries of state and governors, are responsible for tallying the polling place vote totals and creating a countywide or statewide certified election result. these are the exact people, and we can find most of their names because ultimately news outlets reported on who donald trump called. these are the exact people and brad raffensperger's perhaps the most famous but not the only one. these are the exact people who are being primaried and pushed out and these are the exact
people who donald trump needed in his corner to have a different outcome in 2020. do you feel like if 2020 were to happen again, if we were to call an election tomorrow, that trump has installed enough loyalists to have the outcome different? >> look, i think that the greatest risk to our democracy, i've written this before, is in the election certification process. so, you know, you outlined in the introduction two things. number one, make sure people can vote. the second is that their vote counts. the third, which we didn't used to have to think about in america, was that once the votes are counted, that the people responsible for, you know, the calligraphy certificates and putting a seal on a fancy document would do their jobs. and i am very worried that the certification process in our country, which is essential to being seated in the house and in the senate and to having your electors vote during the electoral college, that ceremony of democracy is being -- is
going to be hijacked by republican partisans as a way to prevent the lawful seating or the lawful victors from taking their office. so i'm very worried about it. look at who the trump people are putting up for secretary of state. look at who they're endorsing in those races at the county level. it wasn't just raffensperger in georgia. remember, president trump tried to call and intervene in the wayne county canvassing board in michigan and then the state canvassing board in michigan. >> yeah. i mean, i guess i want to ask if you see this even more sort of starkly in light of the eastman memo. i mean, they actually put theirs on paper. it either signals their stupidity or brazenness or certainty they would overturn the will of the vote. do you feel like -- and i mean, republicans understand that because many republican senators
and house members got a copy of the eastman memo. do you feel like democrats understand what's happening under their noses? >> you know, i'm not sure. it's one of the things i worry about. it's one of the things that i worry about is that the other side is single-mindedly focused on this issue. the thing that united states the republican party from top to bottom, from east to west, is election administration and to make voting harder, to install their loyalists in positions of power in the counting and certification process, and to perpetuate the big lie. and democrats and this is not to say that there are not a myriad of important issues before the country, there are, but democrats have their attention scattered across a variety of pressing issues facing the country. and i worry that the -- that republicans' single-minded focus on this gives them an advantage and that democrats need to be aware of that. >> there is this scene, i've quoted this before, but in tom
cruise and cuba gooding and he says, help me help you. i mean, help me help you explain. as a former republican, what you're saying is absolutely correct. they have no governing agenda. they have no reverence for the rule of law. they have no respect for the institutions in which they serve, which is why they did not vote to hold steve bannon in contempt of congress. they are only focused on changing the rules of the road and it's not even for 2024. donald trump could run again and lose again. but i'm not sure joe biden would be seated, would be voted in, and i wonder what else needs to be conveyed to put this issue front and center. >> look, i think that you do a great job with this, and thank you for that. i think the other thing, which, again, you do a really good job in, but some of your colleagues in the media don't, is having a pro-democracy bent. you know, part of the problem is it's so easy to report politics as a sport between who's up and
who's down that you wind up losing the morality of it and the right and wrong of it, and that, i think, is super important. the other thing is to not allow these things to be disconnected. the rules that affect how people vote are the same rules that will allow republicans to subvert elections. the same rules that is going to make the mother of three children waiting in line for three hours not be able to stand in line because she doesn't have any water, is the same rule that is going to allow republicans to say that that mother of three is a law-breaker and should be criminally prosecuted. so, we need to make sure that we are looking at these things from january 6th to voter suppression to a tax on election subversion, that these are all of a piece. they're all the centerpiece of the republican party agenda. >> without federal voting rights legislation, what can you accomplish ahead of the 2022 or 2024 elections in court? >> look, what my job is, is to
every day wake up and fight in court for democracy. we're going to win some. we're going to lose some. but fundamentally, it is the job of the courts to protect fundamental rights when the political branches fail to do so. and right now, the political branches are not just failing to protect constitutional rights, they are going out of their way in state after state to trample on those rights. so, what i do every day is go to court and fry to fight that. in the end, what i hope to do is to buy time for democracy. i'm not going to solve democracy in court. no one's going to solve democracy in courts. but if we are able to throw enough up to prevent these bad laws from taking effect and were able to push off the effects of the big lie and republican election subversion for another two years, four years, six years, then maybe the country can come to its senses. maybe there can be a break of the fever of anti-democracy
within the republican party and we can restore it to something closer to normal. >> and that is the best case scenario, that maybe the fever will break. i see it the same way. marc elias, thank you so much for taking some time out of what i know is a busy day to talk to us about all of it. we're grateful. >> thank you. joining our conversation, alexi mccammond and coauthor of the book "i alone can fix it," both msnbc contributors. there are always two places i like to go back to. one, there was no voter fraud. there wasn't any. chris krebs said it was the most secure election in our country's history, lifelong republican in charge of election security. bill barr who gladly did a whole lot of donald trump's bidding, it seemed from the outside, couldn't find any and leaves before the coup plot really gets serious. i wonder if we can talk a little
bit about the fact checking that's still ongoing. there's a great piece by aaron blake today in the "washington post" about the dead people cited by donald trump and we all remember those tweets, over and over and over again. aaron blake writes this. the specific dead people cited by trump and his allies have in most cases proved to not have been cases of dead people's identities used fraudulently to vote. in several other cases in which a dead person was actually recorded as voting, the culprit has been identified, not a systemic effort but rather a republican. here's one of the examples. the latest example involves a man in nevada who said someone had voted in the name of his dead wife, rose marie. this was held widely on conservative media. it was the case that nevada gop said showed the, quote, concrete evidence of irregularities. we learned late last week there might have been fraud involved but the alleged fraud was perpetuated by a republican with ties to the trump campaign. the man has been charged with
voting in his dead wife's name. the people committing voter fraud were voting for donald trump, alexi. >> i can't make it make sense more than aaron blake's wonderful article made it make sense and your analysis does too, nicole. other than what i think is the sad reality is we know for the folks pushing these conspiracies, for the people pushing this idea that there was rampant voter fraud, that the facts simply do not matter and donald trump still has gone out at these rallies that he has been attending and putting on after that so-called arizona audit showed joe biden winning over and over again over president trump, he still went out and passed out on it and criticized the process and is really just putting the whole process into doubt and polls are showing now that many, a plurality of republican voters identify as being a republican in large part by identifying with believing that donald trump actually won the 2020 election.
>> it's so -- it's such a sort of circular conversation here in the reality-based landscape in which all of us operate. but it's so important to start with the foundational law, that there wasn't fraud, and alexi is talking about where we are today. when we talk about a prodemocratic party, the democratic party and anti-democratic party, it is not democratic to undermine the hallmark of our democracies, to undermine our elections and furthering those lies to be responsive to your base that believes them is anti-democratic. i wonder if any of those larger sort of democracy on the line arguments have made their way into the conversations at the highest level of the democratic party about the filibuster. >> you know, nicole, they certainly have, and it's one of the reasons why, and this has been building for many months, by the way, why biden and the white house have been under such pressure to try to prioritize voting rights, to try to do
something to take advantage of this democratic majority, slim majority, that they have in congress that could expire, by the way, in the midterm elections a year from now, to use this moment to secure the access to vote. it's essential for american democracy as democrats see it and yet it has not been the foremost priority of this president and of this white house, and you're hearing from activists around the country growing very frustrated that they're not seeing more muscle from the president behind this effort to get voting rights through by breaking through the filibuster to get that passed. they're obviously not going to be getting republican support for voting rights. that was made clear just in that procedural senate vote a week or so ago, but there is a possibility, if you change the senate rules, and get rid of that filibuster, to get this bill through with the 50-plus-1, the 1 being vice president harris, and yet biden has been so focused on these spending bills, on the infrastructure
bill, but also on the domestic programs, central, of course, to the democratic agenda, but not as essential to american democracy as voting rights and that's why you're seeing voices and activists like latasha brown speaking out about it. >> also, not as popular. i mean, spending is divisive. and it really strains your popularity among independents, which are the whole game based on every poll i've seen. 62% of all voters support making it easier to vote, not harder. i mean, 57% support the very measures that are being banned in states like texas. why not go with something that really doesn't cost anything and that's more politically popular and powerful? >> you know -- >> it's a great question. >> sorry, alexi first and then you, phil. >> i've talked to activists who are frustrated about this same thing, who are sort of saying, we might end up passing some sort of voting rights legislation with the help of the filibuster otherwise, but is it actually going to address the
republican roadblocks that have been put up across the country and the republican voting restrictions that we see across the country, or is it just going to be something that democrats can say, well, look, we passed this. president biden had a huge, as we all know, agenda coming into his presidency, coming into this administration, a various list of priorities that others outside, as we all know well, wanted him to focus on voting rights. because of what we saw with the 2020 election alone and the attack on voting laws and voting rights then that certainly wasn't going to stop then and we're seeing that now. the priorities have been all over the place and now activists are sounding the alarm, not just in georgia but in places like texas, north carolina, iowa, and the like that are all crucial for 2022 and beyond. >> yeah, i mean, phil, the why -- i can't be pounded into my head, the why. this was more popular. this was more urgent. this was more definitional for the democratic party base and i wonder what your reporting is or what your sense is about the level of patience among the
democratic party base for action. >> the patience is starting to run out here, nicole, in part because democratic party activists and leaders around the country are seeing the poll numbers that we're all seeing, which is that biden's popularity is declining in some of these key states it appears increasingly likely, at this point, of course, that could change, but that democrats could lose their house majority in the midterm elections next year so there's a sense that time is running out, the clock is ticking and biden isn't focused on voting rights the way a lot of democrats would like him to be and we should keep one thing in mind which is that the trump attempt at a coup failed not because the institutions were so strong and held but failed because trump and his team just didn't have their act together. they weren't efficient or smart or strategic and had he been a smarter president with more of a strategy and a plan, he very well could have accomplished overturning some of those election results, and so there's
a lot of work that smart lawyers like marc elias and others believe need to be done to the system to help fortify it to prevent a coup attempt like that in the future from a more strategic and a more savvy president or presidential candidate and that work is not being done right now. >> it is such an important point. we do not come back to it enough. the coup failed because trump was too stupid to pull it off, not because he hadn't succeeded in putting actors at d.o.d., at the pentagon and all over capitol hill. it's such a haunting, haunting thought. phil rucker, thank you so much for spending time with us. alexi mccammond sticks around. attorney general merrick garland sure to face questions from senators tomorrow about how far doj will go to investigate the disgraced ex-president's efforts to plot a coup and overturn the result. plus, parents are one step closer to the news we've been waiting for, for a long, long time, covid vaccines for kids
ages 5 to 11, soon to be available. we'll tell you about the latest move from the fda and when those shots could be ready to go in kids' arms. and with president biden just hours away from hitting the campaign trail in virginia, we'll run the numbers on the all-important governor's race there with our friend, steve kornacki, live at the big board. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. continues afr tea quick break. don't go anywhere. (sfx: video game vehicle noises, horns beeping,) (engines revving, cars hitting one another.) (sfx: continued vehicle calamity.) just think, he'll be driving for real soon. every new chevy equinox comes standard with chevy safety assist,
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michael myers is the essence of evil. the boogeyman... needs to die. if you track michael's victims, it's a straight line to michael's childhood home. [ screaming ] tonight my family will kill him. [ gasps ] [ screaming ] so, tomorrow, attorney general merrick garland will again find himself on the receiving end of a potentially intense and maybe even combative congressional oversight hearing. mere hours after he sat before
the house judiciary committee last week, the full house passed a resolution finding steve bannon in contempt of congress. in other words,garland's appearance before senate judiciary tomorrow will be his first oversight hearing since it became his department's responsibility and among many democrats, expectation to enforce a congressional subpoena against steve bannon. he might not be able to dodge questions tomorrow, considering what we learned from the "washington post" this week about bannon's involvement about what is being called headquarters for the insurrection. joining us now, our friend neal katyal, former acting u.s. solicitor general, now a georgetown university professor. i was able to sleep after that vote because you assured me that doj would enforce that subpoena. do you believe that will be the case? >> i do. so, i think the justice department has a very cautious attitude in which they examine the stuff case by case but this is a case in which literally the subpoena is about a war on our democracy and a guy who's afraid to tell the truth under oath.
i think it is virtually impossible for the justice department and merrick garland to look past that and say, oh no, we think there's actually an executive privilege claim here for this guy who never even worked for the president when all these events were happening. i think this is a pretty easy call. >> and i, you know, worked in government long enough to understand that at doj, this is about one case. this is about one decision. this is about one prosecution. but i want to show you something dan goldman said because i think it is about this larger question about the garland justice department's posture against trump and his cronies and the insurrectionists. watch. >> we don't know whether there's an investigation. there's been no reporting that there is an investigation. i tend to think that given all of the various leaks that we have had over the last several years, if this were an investigation, either a defense attorney representing a witness or someone in congress, i don't
think that this would be kept as confidential as it should be, and i think there would be word trickling out, and we haven't heard that, but i don't know whether there is an investigation or not. all i know is that there absolutely should be. >> so, first, do you agree that there should a doj investigation into donald trump and his allies in congress? >> heck yes. i mean, this is, like, i can't imagine more fundamental duty of the justice department than to investigate what happened when our capitol was attacked, yeah. i think absolutely. >> so, do you share dan goldman's assessment that -- and we all saw this, watched it unfold, largely in the papers of the "new york times" and the "washington post," the mueller probe, what we saw was largely because lawyers representing various people who were called either couldn't keep their mouths shut or it just got out. do you share dan goldman's concern that because we've heard nothing of anyone representing anyone going before any
investigators that it isn't happening? >> i love dan but i guess i have a somewhat different view on this. i mean, i don't think you can use the baseline of the last four years, because i think two things happened in that baseline. one is career people in the government got disgusted with what was happening at the justice department and other places and leaked information, and i just don't think that's occurring right now. and the second thing is that the justice department and government officials themselves were providing information, and again, i don't know that's happening here, so you know, merrick garland is just about the most cautious, principled, careful person in this town, so it's possible that he has an investigation that hasn't, you know, gone public, that hasn't actually started to interview witnesses that would create the kind of defense attorney leaks that you're talking about. i don't know. i do agree with dan, absolutely, that an investigation has to take place, and i'm willing to -- i've been willing to give merrick garland the benefit of
the doubt, because, you know, dan knows a heck of a lot more than i do, but at some point, patience runs thin and the investigation has to take shape and form now and we can't wait much longer so i'm curious to see what he says tomorrow. >> are you in the camp that is sort of spilling into public, there's a piece by max boot, former republican, in the "washington post" today that says, i think garland needs to appoint a special counsel to thoroughly investigate trump's abuses of power. naturally trump and his partisans would describe any investigations as a witch hunt but they'll make the same accusations against local prosecutors who are also democrats. it would be up to a jury to convict him and provide political insulation. you know more about special counsels than anyone we get to talk to. is that a good idea? >> well, i think the predicate that max boot says is right, which is every single day, we find out more and more involvement by the trump organization and the folks in the january 6th events,
including "the washington post" story that you referenced. i mean, is it just me or does a list -- every list grow every time we look at house republicans and january 6th? i mean, it's kind of like planning a wedding or something. if you invite gosar then you have to invite boebert and marjorie taylor greene is going to crash no matter what. all of these people look involved and that is, i think, one of the kind of things that you think about when you appoint a special counsel. the classic case is a, quote, conflict of interest, which doesn't exist here. it's not like garland being asked to prosecute biden or something like that. but the way we wrote the special counsel regulations was to say that if a special counsel was in the public interest, a broader standard, it could be done. i just don't know that we've reached that point here. again, it's garland who's heading the justice department, not some presidential crony or some party apparatus the way there was in the last administration and so, you know,
i actually think it matters a lot who the attorney general is and if merrick garland decides to bring this investigation, i think it does have credibility, and of course trump is going to cry about it, just as he cried about every so-called judge who ruled against him, as so many did, but at the end of the day, i think, you know, most americans respected those judges who ruled against him and i think they would respect merrick garland if that's the step he decided to take. >> all right, we'll keep watching all of it with your help. neal katyal, thank you so much for joining us today. when we come back, a big step forward in the effort to get kids under 12 years old vaccinated and protected against covid. we'll get reaction from our medical expert after a very short break. don't go anywhere. after a very short break. don't go anywhere. this is worth. that takes wealth. but this is worth. and that - that's actually worth more than you think. don't open that. wealth is important,
some really welcome breaking news this afternoon, in a major milestone for pediatric covid vaccines, fda advisors just voted 17-0 with just one abstention to recommend pfizer's smaller two-dose vaccine regimen for emergency use in kids 5 to 11 years old. it is the first in a series of meetings by federal regulators that could expand vaccine eligibility to the 28 million kids in this country as early as next wednesday. much-anticipated protection for school-age children whose vulnerability has long worried parents and educators. the biden administration says it has enough doses for this entire age group and has been preparing for months to quickly and
equitably roll out the shots at thousands of providers, pharmacies, clinics and health centers. let's bring into our conversation, msnbc medical contributor, dr. bhadelia, director of boston emergency center for emerging infectious diseases policy and research. alexi is still with us. doctor, you know, because every doctor that comes on this show is peppered with questions on the air and off about my anxiety about kids and covid, especially heading back to school this fall amid the delta surge. talk about why this is so important. >> yeah, nicole, and this one directly is talking to the parents because i know that not only are we talking about the impact of their schooling but really there's a health benefit to reducing the risk of kids getting covid-19 and the data presented today made it very obvious. kids in this age group, 5 to 11, made up about 11% of all the cases nationwide, ending the week of october 14th. delta has really changed the equation, right? we think this is not deadly to kids, but that's not true.
covid-19 in this age group is a top ten cause of death, and so we really have to look at this and beyond that, you know, over 8,000 hospitalizations, which, by the way, are completely -- the impact is disparate, three times higher rate in communities of color compared to white kids so this impact being disproportionate, this impact having a major health sort of barrier on our kids, what the committee basically saw was that in the setting of the fact that we're still at 70,000 cases a day, the small risk of heart inflammation, which, by the way, parents should know that the -- these numbers that we're talking about, you know, 70 cases in a million for the 16 to 17-year-olds to, you know, 40 cases in kids from 12 to 15. these are small numbers compared to the fact that if you get covid, as a child in this age, if you get -- or a child in general gets covid-19, 37 times higher rates of heart inflammation compared to if you
didn't get covid so there's real benefit for parents, for communities and of course for children. >> how do we get the shot for kids? do you think that the doses, these smaller doses have been distributed already? are they going to be at pediatricians? what happens next? >> yeah, so, the next steps are the fda's likely to take the recommendation that's generally what they do from the committee, and then next week, the cdc's advisory committee on tuesday is going to look to see, you know, the guidance to providers, to states, and as i'm guessing the cdc director will do, she'll approve this and the day after, november 3rd, you might see the presence of this in places where adults got vaccines. one way to find out where you might get it is vaccine.gov. put in your zip code and see the facilities that are providing this vaccine and you're exactly right, this is a different dosing and pfizer has been working with the administration to pre-align the 20 million early doses that have been bought by the administration to
all the places where they need to be, and this is where the equity component becomes important, nicole, because of the disparate sort of impact that i just talked about as well. so starting next wednesday, i'll say, but one thing -- last thing to say is that kids -- parents should consider getting their kids vaccinated immediately because we're looking at the holiday season. if you're traveling with your child in this age group for thanksgiving, you're going to have one dose in, so remember that's partial protection from what we understand and still taking measures, making sure adults around the kids are vaccinated and taking those rapid tests to make sure if there are people who are not vaccinated, they can take those tests as well. >> really quick on the timeline. is the pfizer it's a two-shot regimen, celebrated by three or four weeks, is that right, for kids? >> it's about three weeks and so by the time you might get your hands on the first dose, it might be after thanksgiving before you can get that second dose as well. >> all right, so, alexi, i remember feeling like covering covid in august was in some ways
as grim and depressing as any other moment in this very, very sad chapter in our country's history because every moment that i thought there would be a trip wire, when the fever and the partisanship and the disinformation would stop, i was sort of shocked and appalled and knew to see that it didn't happen and when pediatric wards started filling up with covid kids, it was appalling to see some of the political fights increase, not decrease. to see florida's governor, texas's governor ban mask mandates, so see that kids weren't spared from the toxic politics around covid. that stipulated, what's sort of the best case scenario for the kid vaccine? >> politically? hopefully, my -- i mean, as you've -- this is something i've been thinking about is you two were talking, it's obviously along partisan lines. polls show that as the covid-19 vaccines have been politicized,
there's a larger and larger gap between republicans and democrats in terms of who is pro-vaccines and who is against them. republicans are, you know, largely against them. that's now the same for their kids, but the other thing that we know to be true, nicole, is that misinformation and disinformation has been rampant around these vaccines but conspiracy theories, misinformation and disinformation around democrats and children for whatever reason has been a particularly gross and salient issue for that weird online constituency of republican voters who like to spread misinformation around these issues so i think the best case scenario is to really keep that in check so that parents who are maybe nervous and looking to make a decision about whether and how to get their kids vaccinated are inundated at the same level or worse of misinformation and disinformation as we have been in the past. >> it is sadly the reality in which we're all fighting the covid pandemic. dr. bhadelia, thank you so much.
alexi sticks around. when we come back, we are one week away, seven days away from election day. the key races in virginia and new jersey. we get to check in with our friend, steve kornacki, at the big board after a quick break. don't go anywhere. big board aft. don't go anywhere. i always protect my voice. it's how i make my living. and you and i make a country with our voices. your vote is your voice. but more than ever, our freedom to vote is under attack. so please: call congress.
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to campaign for terry mcauliffe. he's in a tight election for governor that president biden and the party view as referendum on their performance. democrats are hoping that the president's appearance tonight, coming off a star-studded month of visits, including ones from former president barack obama and stacey abrams will help put him over the finish line. joining us now from the big board to break it all down is nbc's national political correspondent steve kornacki, who will of course be on duty all night one week from today. alexi's still with us. same conversation on teef we just had off tv. it's really, really close. >> take a look. here's the average of all the polls, basically a one-point race. we saw a couple of 50/50s, today, 48-46 right now. the two things that are kind of in conflict here in virginia, the recent trend has been democratic. this century, basically, barack
obama flipped it in 2008. joe biden won it by ten points last year. so there's a democratic trend, big picture. but the other trend in virginia, we got it here, we can show you, these governors races always come a year after the presidential election and what you're seeing here, these are modern times, basically, 1977 on. here's the party that controlled the white house for every virginia governor's race since '77. here's the party that won the governorship and if you notice, it's almost always the opposite political political party. there is, actually, one exception. this is the lone exception. this is 2013. barack obama was the president, democrat, and the democrats did win virginia. it was a very close race. but they did win in 2013. the candidate, for what it's worth, was terry mcauliffe. >> what are the closing issues here and is it fair to say that if the republican wins, then the insurrection isn't the stain that we think it is? >> i think it's all about, it's sort of two questions or two potential issues that have
resonance in the suburbs. the suburbs of northern virginia, the suburbs of richmond, the metropolitan areas in virginia that have been moving democratic and especially moved democratic in the trump era. let's look at northern virginia, for instance. couple places we could go here. but let's show you luiten county. it's a biggie. it's growing really quickly. this is suburban, ex-urban so you see joe biden won here by 25 points over donald trump in 2020. check out the trend in loudoun county. you see a lot of this around northern virginia. hillary clinton won by 17, 25 for the dems in 2020, 17 in 2016. that's with the trump presidency did to loudoun county. look at this. when mitt romney was the republican nominee in 2012, republicans almost won loudoun county so this is the trump effect in loudoun county, and this is the trump effect, you see it in northern virginia. you see it in suburbs in virginia. so, what terry mcauliffe is doing, he believes what you say
about donald trump and january 6th, that's why he's saying trump over and over a thousand times a day, he thinks that is what's going to keep a place like loudoun county voting more like it did in 2020, less like it did in 2012. now, the flip side is, youngkin, the republicans, they've been talking education and curriculum. they believe that issue has resonance, especially in a place like loudoun county. they don't think it's going to win loudoun county for them but they think it's going to erase a lot of surge gains democrats made in the trump era. maybe instead of biden getting 61.5%, maybe mcauliffe gets 55, 54%. if they can keep it around 10, 12 points, democrats can win. >> steve, let me bring alexi into this. >> steve, it's an honor.
love kornacki at the big board. quick question. you were do you have access to the information it skips from '14 to '12. instead i can tell you. it's a smaller scale version of what you're seeing in the biden victory. northern virginia, richmond suburbs. i think there's two ways to look at it. there's one that kind of would bode well for mcauliffe. think about it, democrat in the white house. mcauliffe made the race about his republican opponent, ken
cuccinelli. mcauliffe was able to defy history and win the election. maybe for democrats that's hopeful for this year. the flip side is can cuccinelli make it as easy as glenn youngkin is to call him an extremist? mcauliffe, he won with 47% of the vote. well under 50%. a third party candidate got 7% because both cuccinelli and mcauliffe were so unpopular. >> steve kornacki, it's bizarre that we're back at the big board but it's so great to see you in front of the big board. i can't wait to call on you over the next seven days and beyond. do you think we'll know early? >> yeah. remember 2020. virginia was pretty efficient. the state got called at 12:04 a.m. calling around talking to election officials, i think we're going to have more vote earlier than that. the polls close at 7 p.m.
we'll have a lot in the first 10 minutes. >> might be an early night. steve kornacki, thank you so much. alexi, thank you for spending time with us today. quick break for us. we'll be right back. it's clinically proven, reduces inflammation and comes in original prescription strength. salonpas. it's good medicine. this is... ♪ ♪ this is iowa. we just haven't been properly introduced. say hello to the place where rolling hills meets low bills. where our fields, inside and out, are always growing. and where the fun is just getting started. this is iowa. so, when are you coming to see us? ♪ ♪ >> tech: when you get a chip in your windshield... trust safelite. this couple was headed to the farmers market... when they got a chip. they drove to safelite for a same-day repair.
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out. from the past two years i've spoken a great deal on the subject from this chamber. there will be time enough later to return to it in other settings. >> that was former arizona senator republican jeff flake in 2018. tragically he was right about threats to our democracy and that he'd get another opportunity to talk about them in a different setting. today the senate confirmed flake to be the u.s. ambassador to turkey. the senate also confirmed cindy mccain, the u.s. representative to the u.n. agencies for food and agriculture. taken together, a good day for arizona republicans who stood up to donald trump. we'll be right back.
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thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we're grateful. the beat with ari melber starts right now. >> hi, nicole. welcome to "the beat" everyone. we begin with breaking news. i am ari melber. the fda moving forward, its panel voting unanimously to recommend something many parents have been eager for when it's safe. they are giving the green light for kids age 5 to 11 to have a small dose of the pfizer vaccine. >> this concludes the vote. out of 18 voting members, 17 voted yes and we had one abstain. thank you.