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tv   Hallie Jackson Reports  MSNBC  December 10, 2021 12:00pm-1:00pm PST

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right now on msnbc reports, the new report out today on this apparently inflation nation affecting people who live coast to coast. virtually everything you buy getting more expensive, with inflation last month soaring to levels not seen since ronald reagan. we're live at the white house with what the president just said as wall street seems to be doing all right in this last hour of trading because investors thought inflation was going to go up more than it did. we'll be joined live one-on-one with this in a minute. weaver also live in texas where the supreme court is leaving the
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state's strict abortion law in place. plus, the new political headlines breaking from georgia. one involves david perdue, and one involves kanye west. what it means for 2022. i'm hallie jackson in washington. i'm joined by leah caldwell and kyle cheney. as both of you well know, we're getting a new batch of subpoenas in from the january 6th committee. it's about a half dozen names. walk us through the on the significance here. >> reporter: yeah, hallie, it is six new subpoenas from the committee. the committee says they expect these witnesses to join hundreds of individuals who have already cooperated, but goes on to say that they have had direct communication with the former president regarding the rally directly preceding the attack on
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the u.s. capitol. some witnesses worked to stage the rallies on january 5th as well, and as far as who the people are, people like bobby peede and max miller who reportedly met with the former president in his private dining room of the oval office on january 4th. brian jack who was the director of political affairs to the former president, and reached out to several members of congress on behalf of the former president to ask them to speak on january 6th. other people, brian lewis, ed martin, kimberly fletcher, all having roles with the ellipse rally on that day. it's important to note that max miller is someone who's now running for congress in ohio. he was originally running to unseat representative gonzalez who voted to impeach -- a republican who voted to impeach the former president because of january 6th. he's no longer running.
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so max miller is the trump endorsed candidate for actually a new district in ohio, and then brian jack is someone -- this is the person who worked for the president's political -- he was his political director. he now works for gop leader kevin mccarthy in his political arm. he was hired by leader mccarthy march of 2021. so just two months after january 6th. so this new batch of subpoenas comes as the committee has really received a lot of information this week from depositions, and gotten into a legal battle with the former chief of staff mark meadows, to the former president and also got some good news to the courts over documents from the former president. so this has been a pretty big week for the committee, and one note i want to say, hallie is as far as mark meadows is concerned, while he says he is
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no longer cooperating and has filed a suit, in the weeks he did cooperate, he has turned over 9,000 pages of documents, hallie. >> kyle, i know you cover this day in and day out. tell me what stands out to you on this list. i know we mentioned someone trying to forge a political future for himself, max miller. talk about what you see as significant as it relates to the investigation thaw cover. >> reporter: sure. while leeann laid it out well, also representing a handful of the rioters as an attorney in court, and he actually ties into this in another way as well. actually one of the things that jumped out to me was the schedule of these depositions for the people they've subpoenaed. >> explain that. >> reporter: that's particularly notable because the investigation means it will extend well into the new year. they're still in the information-gathering phase here, so it seems like they're just revving up. >> we had information coming out
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in the last 24 hours about the number of witnesses, you know, the number of people that the select committee has made contact with, right? the information that as leeann alluded to, they received mark meadows, and and the assumption had been this would go well into next year. the question is with the midterms looming less than a year from now and if, you know, the house is not kept by democrats, you know, what happens to the committee then? right, as far as timeline? >> reporter: well, and max miller actually as you mentioned he's running for congress and he even said yesterday he looks forward to winning, so he can help shut this committee down. this is interesting here. this is operating with the knowledge they could be shut down within a year. they want to wrap up on the early side maybe the spring of 2022 so they can present their findings or whatever they have at that point to the public. so i think they know what they're up against, and that's why it's interesting that they are setting these depositions well into january because it
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means they're still deep in the information-gathering phase even as they're thinking about how to finalize their product. >> such a good point. kyle cheney, and leeann caldwell. appreciate you being with us at the top of the show. thanks. we just heard from president biden not long ago who took a question on the inflation report. we're paying more for just about everything. nearly 7% more, and that's the highest in more than 40 years, and the president says it's another reason to pass the build back better that's part of his agenda. watch. >> if they're paying considerably less for child care, health care, insulin, down the list of being able to take care of their parents, all the things that are in the build back better plan, the reason economists think it's going to, in fact, diminish the impact on inflation is because it's reducing cost for ordinary people. >> i want to bring in joel
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lincan. there's a generation of americans, a generation and a half who have never seen this big jump in consumer prices. it was before you and i were born. we can safely say this was the last time the prices went up this much was 1982. what's the significance, what's driving it, and what have we heard? >> reporter: this is broad-based inflation that goes just beyond the pandemic and supply chain concerns and slowing down. so when you look at the numbers it's not just food and gasoline prices that are going up significantly, but you see persistent increases in rent, in shelter, and that really is driving a lot of the concern here, and it's going to put even a bigger question to the fed chair jerome powell next week as to whether or not they taper bond-buying and they take more action to try to curb this kind of inflation, but the numbers are pretty remarkable if you look at beef prices. they're up 21% year over year,
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gas prices up, you know, 58%, more than 58% year over year, and if you look down into the minutia of the report, we see that even coffee, 7.5% up, peanut butter, 6.8% up, and these things are very, very important to look at because these are staple foods that people are buying as part of their daily budgets when that is no longer, you know, affordable. you see more families especially lower income tapping food banks and having to look at other alternatives, and it affects the way people are able to pay for their housing and survive, and so when you look at the top issues that so many people vote on, it's the pocketbook. it's the economy, and so -- >> right. >> -- this is complicating president biden's agenda, and that's probably an understatement at this point. >> when he says that the reason he says for the inflation happening is the supply chain problems that are so severe. is he right? is that it?
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is that the whole thing? or is there more to it? >> there is more to it, yes. the supply chain coupled with record consumer demand is driving up prices and there is a subset of the population that did save a lot of money during the pandemic and they are able to pay prices, but that result also means we can't forget the massive unemployment and the food lines we saw during the height of the pandemic and even still now so you really see lower income americans being hit so much harder, higher income americans being able to absorb that cost, and it's a broader issue, and that's why the fed and the treasury are looking at this so closely trying to figure out, you know, how to curb this, but inflation may, some economists believe, you know, it may taper off in terms of the intensity. the rate of growth month to month was less fast compared to last month, but you still see, you know, the records since 1982
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as you mentioned, 6.8%, significant for people who didn't need these numbers to begin with to understand that inflation really hurts right now. >> jo ling kent, thank you. i'm joined from the white house by cecilia rausch, chair of the council. thank you for being here. >> good afternoon. >> we heard from the president say that priek price spikes may be slowing down. do you think inflation is peaking? are we seeing that peak right now? >> look. let's look at the economy in the totality. first of all we know that we have had record recovery in our labor market. unemployment is down 4.2%. we saw improvements in labor participation. on many dimensions, we have a very strong economy but we did get a cbi report today which tell us as you just reported
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that we've seen some significant inflation led by food and energy. we know that energy and car prices were accounted for about half of the month on month increase and half of the year on year increase. i do believe they are due to the pandemic and the fact we have supply not in line with demand, and that as we get through the pandemic, we will see prices begin to ease. so we are optimistic that over the coming months, we will see an easing of these price pleasures. oil and gas and energy prices did mediate some at the tail end of november and into december. that is in the right direction, but, you know, we don't get through this pandemic until we get through this pandemic, but we are optimistic that overall prices will ease going forward. >> so prices will ease going forward. i know you don't have a crystal ball, but as somebody whose job is looking at the economy on
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these type of things, will inflation go down in the coming months, are we talking 2 or 12 or 50? americans are looking at this and going to the grocery store, and they feel it and they see it. it has an effect on their life. >> i completely appreciate that, which is why it was so important to the president to first of all passing our rescue plan to ensure that households had the resources that they needed. i know we have been reporting that yes, wages -- real wages on average with the added resources that americans have had through other sources, their overall disposable incomes is ahead. so we understand that prices are higher and people -- and that's a challenge, but that's exactly why it was important that we support families getting through this pandemic. so look. i don't have a crystal ball. forecasters on average expected inflation to be about half of what it is today this time next year, but honestly it will depend on the pandemic and as we get through this, but as you
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noted, the fed is watching. >> mm-hmm. >> inflation is part of the fed's mandate, and, you know, chair powell signaled that they are going to be thinking about their bond-buying program, thinking about increasing interest rates sooner than they had been anticipating. they will be meeting next week and, you know, that's in their purview, and they'll help us through. >> one of the things you mentioned is the build back better act of course. keeping with the president's agenda saying, hey. this is another reason for congress to get this done. the chamber of commerce sent out a tweet saying, quote -- i want to quote it for you here. time to hit the pause button on the so-called build back better bill which will only add more gasoline to the fire. why are they wrong? >> it's not stimulus. if we were talking about giving
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deficit financed meaning that the government was borrowing money to put money into people's pockets because we felt we were in a recession, that would be the wrong thing to do. that would be inflationary. the build back better plan actually makes really important investments in our people that help people get the schooling that they need to be more productive, to help parents pay for child care so they can go to work, to make investments in our 3 and 4-year-olds so they become productive adults. economists agree that those investments pay for themselves over time, and they're not inflationary for three reasons. one is they play out over ten years. it's not juicing the economy over a series of months. it's spread out over about ten years. two, it is -- there are the resources it has paid for. it is not deficit finance. the build back better plan has revenue sources to pa for this as well. the president insisted this will be fiscally responsible, and the plan is, and three, something that's not well appreciated, and i'm going to do four, is that when we look at the change in
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what the fiscal support has been, there are the -- what we call the fiscal cliff is rather steep in 2022, but le me say the last part. this makes our economy more productive. they increase productivity, increase our capacity, and that's where we get the inflationary pressure going forward. >> okay, and in one sentence or less, can you tell me what you would say to people when you look at the president's disapproval rating? what do you say to americans who think he's not doing enough? >> i would say think about where we were this time last year. we have made tremendous progress in this economy. yes, it's been a hard, not just one-year, but a hard 20 months or so. we have progress. we're not through this pandemic, but when we think about where we were, we are doing really very well. >> thank you so much for joining us from the white house. we appreciate your time this afternoon. please come back. coming up, what to know about that big decision from the supreme court on the texas abortion law, and why the lead plaintiff in that challenge
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against the law says texans deserve better. she is going to join me live later in the show. plus, the trump-backed candidate running for georgia governor in the next election new suing to relitigate the last one. e next election new suing to relitigate the last one. fresh flavors... classic dishes... ♪♪ and a new seat at the table. ♪♪ tide pods ultra oxi one ups the cleaning power of liquid. and a new seat at the table. can it one up whatever they're doing? for sure. seriously? one up the power of liquid, one up the toughest stains. any further questions? uh uh! one up the power of liquid with tide pods ultra oxi. superpowers from a spider bite? i could use some help showing the world how liberty mutual customizes their car insurance. ow! i'm ok! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ only in theaters december 17th. (vo) subaru and our retailers believe in giving back. that's why, in difficult times, we provided
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the supreme court today giving abortion providers in texas kind of a half win, but a disappointing half win for abortion rights advocates. here's the deal. the court in a flurry of rulings saying that some of the lawsuits challenging the ban can move forward, but at the same time, the justices left the law in effect by declining for now to block its enforcement. i want to bring in pete williams, and pete, the stage is set. forgive me for the term, but for this lengthy legal battle here, and the justices did that by not blocking the law's enforcement. take us through that. >> reporter: i think the best way to understand this is it's all about who can you sue? if you sue somebody, and you go to court and say, this law is unconstitutional, and you win, the reason the law can't be
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enforced is because the judge will then say, all right. you officials, you can't enforce this law. so an injunction forbids people, organizations, entities to enforce the law. so the question here is who do you sue? texas said you can't sue us. we're state officials. we don't enforce the law. it's all those people who file the private lawsuits. that's really the problem here, is who do you get to sue? today the supreme court said you can't sue supreme court judges. they don't really, you know, they don't enforce anything. they're just umpires. you can't sue state court clerks. you can't sue the state attorney general, but you can sue the members of the state medical board. now you're looking at the breakdown on the different aspects of how this came out, so 5-4 that you can't sue the clerks or the state attorney general, and then one just one, clarence thomas on the court said you can sue the medical licensing board, but that's a
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very narrow read on which to carry on these lawsuits. so yes, the lawsuits can go forward. yes, it's somewhat of a setback from texas which thought it was constructing an absolute bomb-proof law. turns out there is a chink in that armor, but how strong will it be? this is about lawsuits in federal court. there are separate lawsuits going on in state court. so these lawsuits will go forward, but the supreme court today took away a lot of the ammunition of these groups to try to get the law shut down. >> pete williams, thank you for that. we'll talk more about this issue later on in the show. next up, why an election worker in georgia reportedly got a visit from kanye west. wait until you hear this. it's next. west. it until you hear this it's next. ♪ say it's all right ♪ ♪ say it's all right, it's all right ♪ ♪ have a good time 'cause it's all right ♪
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the 2022 election in georgia is going to be one of the big headliners of the midterm year. if that is, the state can ever move past the 2020 election, and some headlines out today make that in question, right? because today, just days after getting to the republican primary for governor, former senator david perdue is leaning
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into the big lie. he says he and former president trump both actually won the races they lost. you remember donald trump lost georgia by about 12,000 votes to joe biden. david perdue lost his senate seat by an even bigger margin to jon ossoff. they're pulling out suitcases of ballots and they counted them multiple times and that's why georgia went blue. there's no evidence of widespread fraud in georgia. multiple independent investigations proved that the ballots were even counted three times there and that suitcase thing is a conspiracy theory that's been disproved. there's that today, and then some separate news about this notorious phone call now that happened right after the 2020 election. not the phone call between then-president trump and georgia's secretary of state that you have heard about, but another one that reuters is reporting today. including the person who reps this guy, rapper kanye west, usually responsible for dealing with paparazzi, or keeping a divorce out of the tabloids, but
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this publicist used her job to try to interfere with the 2020 election results. she called an election worker and threatened her, and told her to lie, and say she tampered with the election results, the ones that show joe biden won and said if she did not, she would be arrested. we're going to talk about that in a second, but let's bring in greg bluestein. let's talk about this first. you had david perdue announcing this run for governor, and donald trump endorsed the candidacy. then you had the fraud talk and the runoff in the 2020 election. is there anything other than political strategy here? i ask that legitimately. perdue didn't have a problem with the results until now. >> reporter: you had david perdue with interviews saying he wouldn't have certified the election results if he called for a special session to investigate these false claims
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of voter fraud. so this is clearly his open play in this race. he's called for some policy issues as well, but his opening play has been trying to be the favorite of donald trump and use the same lies to promote them, and this lawsuit is an example. it revives those false claims and as you noted in the headlines, we heard over and over and over again, and this is the very same lawsuit and it was laughed out of court two months ago, and with this, david perdue is putting it front and center all over again, and to a certain element and a certain number of republican supporters, they believe this. and they're energized by this. >> what did -- i'm curious on a couple of things. what did perdue say when you asked him about this, and interviewed him? >> i didn't know about the lawsuit obviously, but when i asked him about how he feels like he can unify republican voters by challenging the incumbent republican governor, he said that it all goes down to his belief that brian kemp
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cannot beat stacey abrams. she is this unique motivating factor in the republican party right now in georgia, you know, used to be nancy pelosi who was the number one villain of republicans in georgia, and now it's clearly stacey abrams. everything from dogcatcher and supervisor is running against her. >> are you being literal or is the dogcatcher actually running against her? >> there are county, you know, commissioners and city council members in parts of rural georgia putting stacey abrams front and center of their campaign for real. >> talk to me about the gop primary. it's interesting. we're actually -- without pulling back the curtain too much, we're interested in what's happening on georgia. i'm working on reporting down there as you know, and the republican primary, right? this race that perdue is involved in, super interesting. you have, of course, the secretary of state race down there in a primary that is also super interesting. >> we have these premier races up and down the ticket.
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you're talking about warnock facing the one from texas. at the top of the ticket, stacey abrams, brian kemp and david perdue, and maybe the downticket contest which is secretary of state brad raffensperger. we have our work cut out for us over the next few years. >> i hope you catch sleep over the holidays. thank you. always great to have you on. appreciate it. turning now overseas to a ruling finding china against humanity. keir simmons is with us. i'm glad to have you. thank you. talk us through what this watchdog found. this is something i know you have been reporting on for a long time.
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>> reporter: well, that's right, hallie, and, in fact, the u.s. has already accused china of genocide over its treatment of this minority group, and then you have now this independent tribunal now. it's not legally binding and the evidence is pretty chilling. the response today from the chinese and specifically the chinese embassy here in london is robust to say the least. they're saying this is nothing but a political tool used by a few anti-china elements to mislead the public. muslims, a minority group from western china have been speaking out at the tribunal's meetings saying, punishments included savage beatings, sleep and food deprivation. police officers took the children away by force. among the evidence, the panel has reviewed, leaked documents alleging china's president authorized this treatment.
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she has documented 232 re-education camps, 257 prisons. >> there is a genocide going on. there are millions of people being locked up in this so-called re-education camps. >> reporter: we traveled to istanbul where thousands of refugees live in exile. here in a chinese re-education camp where refugees are being used in china right now. they call them concentration camps with torture rooms. >> this is an interrogation room. >> yeah. this is the tiger chair. >> a tiger chair? >> we call it a tiger chair. >> reporter: even outside china, they don't feel safe. her husband was arrested in morocco earlier this year. she is left with their young children and fears he will be sent to a chinese prison. >> i should stay strong. i am -- i have three children. >> reporter: while we are with her, she gets a call from him in
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prison. what did he say? >> he said he was really scared. >> reporter: families divided by chinese authorities who accuse them of trying to -- security and development interests. their statements ending, stop making irresponsible remarks. are you scared? >> no. >> why not? >> i think the worst is happening already, and it can't be even worse than this. >> reporter: the u.s. has already accused china of genocide while this week, more countries joined america's diplomatic boycott of the beijing games. tom? >> i'm hallie. of course, keir as you're well aware. one of the reasons the u.s. is planning this diplomatic boycott on beijing is this issue of, you
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know, the human rights issue that you just talked about, and the abuses. we have seen some countries follow suit, right, in its diplomatic boycott. canada, australia. others have not. do you think we're hitting or will hit a tipping point or is what we've seen it? what's your sense? >> reporter: it's a great question, and here's why. it really does shine a light on the challenges for president biden or putting pressure on china over his human rights records. so as you rightly say, canada, the uk here, australia, have followed the u.s. in this diplomatic boycott of the olympics, but if you look at the europeans, they really right now as we speak don't know what to do. so the chancellor of germany has said he hasn't decided. president macron of france has suggested this is pointless to have a democratic -- a diplomatic boycott of the games. another country like hungary in europe is thought very unlikely to do it. the europeans will meet on monday to try to make a unified
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decision, but of course, the problem, hallie, is if you are going to challenge china over these issues, you need unity and right now, that unity for the u.s. and western europeans, looking pretty shaky. >> keir simmons, thank you for staying up late for a friday night for us there. after the break, we take you live to texas where the impact of a supreme court decision letting that texas abortion law stay in effect. we know people are already feeling. plus, later, hundreds of thousands of gen z-ers joining a movement saying birds aren't real. they're actually drones. we'll explain why with the reporter behind this one in a sec. sec. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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as experts warn of the effects on well-being caused by the pandemic. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ when our daughter and her kids moved in with us... our bargain detergent couldn't keep up. turns out it's mostly water. so, we switched back to tide. one wash, stains are gone. [daughter] slurping don't pay for water. pay for clean. it's got to be tide. we have been talking about today's ruling from the supreme court on the texas abortion law. that says essentially while abortion providers can still keep up their legal fight against the law, the state can also keep enforcing it. meaning effectively the
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procedure was banned after a fetal heartbeat was detected which is usually around six weeks of pregnancy, before many women know they're pregnant. there's a loophole, which means that everyday texans can file lawsuits against abortion providers or anybody believed to be helping in an abortion procedure. i want to bring in nbc news correspondent morgan chefski. you are on the ground, and that is where this is being felt the most, right? >> reporter: hallie, you're absolutely right, and both sides walking away from this ruling feeling like a victory was had, but for abortion rights groups, it is being met with frustration and in some cases, anger. they feel by keeping this in effect, that women's lives, particularly those from a soesh
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owe economic low background are being put at risk. they have to travel out of state to have procedures done here. abortions in the state of texas in september 1st, one group says have dropped by 50%. i want to hear what jen psaki had to say about the supreme court's decision earlier today. take a listen. >> the president is very concerned by the supreme court's decision allowing this to remain in effect, given the consequences the law has for women in texas and around the country and for the rule of law. the ruling this morning is a reminder of how much these rights are at risk. >> reporter: so let's talk a little bit about what sb8 entails, hallie. you mentioned this bans abortions as early as six weeks. that is when that fetal heartbeat can be detected, and abortions -- we're also seeing a surge in patients traveling to out of state clinics as you mentioned. the average one-way clinic distance has now increased
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12-fold -- from 12 miles to 248 miles. texas, of course, a massive state. some travels significant distances here, and now groups are saying that more patients are carrying unwanted pregnancies to term here. we have heard from both sides as of this point in time. dan patrick responded on twitter earlier today. i want you to read what he had so a, saying that texas' heartbeat bill remains intact following the preliminary ruling. texas is a solidly pro-life state. a great victory for the unborn. meanwhile, we are also hearing from vice president kamala harris who had this to say. every day we wait, every day we don't address maternal mortality is a day a mother could die, and we are working on ending this trend. this being one of the primary points we have heard the vice president addressing over the last several weeks and months. here in texas, a lot of these clinics, while this
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constitutionality of sb8 can now be challenged at the state level are choosing to simply wait until this is carried out through the courts, they say that every day that this goes by, goesen to, it puts more women's health at risk. >> morgan, live for us there in dallas. thank you. i want to bring in amy hagstrom miller, founder and ceo of whole women's health challenging this law in court. good afternoon to you. it's good to have you back on the show. >> good afternoon, thank you. >> i know your organization said you, quote, won, but on very -- won on very narrow grounds. as you heard my colleague just lay out though, obviously some real concerns for abortion rights providers. talk about where you go from here. >> so as on abortion provider, we are face to face with the impacts on real people's lives in the communities all across texas. abortion adds value to our
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communities. it makes our families healthier, and our families safer, and right now the vast majority of people are being denied abortion care all across texas. today is day 101 of this law being in effect, and so while we had a win today on paper in the legal scheme in many ways, that win is not realized or actualized for the hundreds and thousands of people all over the state who are still being denied access to safe care. >> so are you ready? are you prepared as the next step to take this case back to the supreme court? where do you go from a legal perspective here? >> sure. so where i go first is to comfort our clinic staff who are on the front lines and heartbroken that they still have to deny care to patients, and then when talking to our lawyers, we're talking about next steps. we don't plan to stop fighting. we are very dedicated to trying to bring justice on behalf of the people who need us. keep in mind that people don't
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just have abortions because there's clinics here. people have safe abortions because clinics are open. the same amount of people in texas still need access to safe abortion, and now they're being forced to either leave the state or carry the pregnancy that they don't feel ready for. so this needs our attention. >> you talk about the impact on women in texas. can you talk more about that, and provide an update for example in this time period in the last let's say 100 days since this law went into effect versus this time last year, let's say? >> sure. so we have had to turn hundreds and hundreds of patients away. whole women's health operates four clinics in the state of texas in mckinney, in fort worth, in austin, and mcallen. all across the state from north to south, and in every community, we have had to turn hundreds of people away because of this law's limit to only about six weeks into pregnancy. we're only about to see about 20% to 25% of the people we would normally see for safe abortion care. so the rest of folks are being
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blocked really from getting safe care by this law, and by politicians inserting their views into people's personal lives and really damaging their outcomes and maternal mortality like the vice president was talking about. in texas, it's worse, and this is going to have an effect on generations as people are forced to carry pregnancies they don't feel ready for. it's really awful to watch this on our watch in the united states where people look to us for freedom and liberty and equality to see this being enacted for this long in our country right now is really devastating. >> amy hagstrom miller, thank you for being with us and talking us through where you are and plan to go. thank you. next up, we're going inside a gen z conspiracy theory movement. who started it, and maybe more importantly, why? because spoiler, birds are real. we're talking about it next. it . (vo) t-mobile for business helps small business owners
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jr.'s qanon predicted resolution. theories that are a toxic concoction of online misinformation, political division, and maybe, just maybe detachment from the fabric of reality. leave to it the youths, though, to the kids, to gen z, to fight back against these movements in their own way. we are talking about births around real. you see it there. a conspiracy theory that says birds, pigeons or blue birds or falconss, whatever, they are not birds, they are government surveillance drones. they don't even like twitter, whose logo is a bird. here are some of the followers outside the company's headquarters in san francisco [ crowd chanting, birds aren't real ] >> the catch? yes, thankfully, there is a catch. it is basically one big kind of inside joke. it's parody, satire designed to show ow ridiculous the on line
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theories are, the, quote, unquote, real -- we say real meaning those unreal words, and how quickly they spread. the leader of the movement stayed in character. >> birds sit on power lines, we believe they are charging on power lines. bird pop on cars is liquid tracking apparatus. >> for the first time now he is breaking his conspiracy theorist character and talking about why he created it to the "new york times." the author of the profile in the "new york times," the tech reporter. you have talk to this boy who has been around the country as the face this conspiracy theory for years. why is he breaking character with you now? >> as you mentioned this joke
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has been going on about four years now. it has gotten to the point where the movement has hundreds of thousands of young followers. the whole thing is sort of aimed at poking fun at misinformation and conspiracy theories and media illiteracy. i think he feels like now is the time to come clean and let people know, hey this is all a joke. he doesn't want harm to come from the movement. >> you talk about fighting lunacy with lunacy. do you think it's working, has worked or is starting to work? >> yeah. it seems to be working. i mean, members what have they call the bird brigade, which are followers of the birds aren't real movement have been successfully showing up and counter protesting a lot of different types of qanon rallies, white lives matter rallies, anti-abortion rallies. they kinds of join forces with
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these raleighs and chant "births around real" alongside the other conspiracy theorists and as you mentioned, they are fighting lunacy with lunsy. >> shining a light on how ridiculous it is. that's the content. >> yeah. exactly. and providing a safe space for young people who grew up in the world overrun with misinformation to collectively bond and get involved in something so they don't get sucked into more seriously harmful conspiracies. births aren't real is a positive community they can get involved with. yes, it's conspiracy oriented. but they all, you know, know it is a conspiracy. it's kinds of the joke. >> you quote him saying the group was quote a safe space for people the come together and attack the conspiracy theory group of america. are there people who are like wait a minute, i thought this
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was legit and births around real. that doesn't happen? >> as the cofounder put it the me, if they believe that births around real, there is probably no conspiracy they don't believe in. and this is the least harmful one of the grand scheme. >> everybody gets it. >> it is teenager and college kids. they are savvy. that's the point. it is tongue in cheek. >> taylor lawrence, another great piece of reporting grchlt to see you back on the show. thank you for being with us. thanks to all of you for watching this hour of hallie jackson reports, where births are real every day. find us at hallie on msnbc. and of course on our streaming channel. i will see you there in an hour. "deadline: white house" starts right after this quick break. ses right after this quick break i was unable to eat. it was very hard. kimberly came to clearchoice with a bunch of missing teeth, struggling with pain, with dental disease.
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hi there, everyone. it's health care in new york. it be that kind of week that let congressman jamie raskin yesterday on this program to say this -- everything is moving in our direction. it is a week of staggering developments and has given the investigation into the juks select committee a boost of energy. hours ago they released a list of


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