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tv   Hallie Jackson Reports  MSNBC  December 15, 2021 12:00pm-1:00pm PST

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there is breaking news as we come on the air. president biden now on the ground in kentucky seeing firsthand the unprecedented destruction from the deadly tornados as we learn the number of people has risen to 75. video from the scene shows the president talking to survivors who are standing on the rubble of what is left. right now he's on his way to a third grief-tricken community and expected to make remarks on the federal response in the next hour. and health officials are bracing for a surge in cases of omicron. the cdc director said early data shows every two days the number of cases has doubled. will the booster be enough to slow it? i'll ask the nih director dr. francis collins when he sits
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down for a one-on-one just ahead. plus sources telling nbc news that senate democrats are preparing to miss next week's deadline to pass the president's sweeping social spending bill. in fact, a vote could slide all the way into march. so a lot going on. good afternoon, i'm chris jansing at msnbc world headquarters in new york. we begin with mike memoli traveling with the president in dawson springs, kentucky. allison barber is there where she's been in touch with survivors. and nbc's gabe guiterrez in mayfield, kentucky. let's start with allison. as we await president biden's arrival there in dawson springs, you've been on the ground, you've looked for yourself, seen the destruction, seen the scale of the need, what is the president going to see and experience when he gets there? >> reporter: he's going to see homes like this one. this belonged to a woman named shauna. you could see a lot of her
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children's things here. what remains of christmas wrapping paper. she was inside her house in kind of this hallway area almost where that pink piece of clothing is, hunkered down with her 9-year-old and her 3-year-old. her 9-year-old daughter she said she talks about still days later about feeling the tornado come through. her feet lifting up as she clung on to her mother. we were talking about what she hopes the president sees, what she needs from the president. she was back here because she was looking to try and see if she could find any sort of identification. she said she doesn't have an i.d., when she's trying to get help and get a new i.d. so maybe get a holt or rent a car. she needs some other proof of identification. every bit of mail she had that showed where she lived, her home, all of it is gone. so the idea of trying to rebuild, it is hard for them to even see where they start, what
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people keep tells us is we need help and we need it immediately. they hope that the president coming here will be more than just in their words a photo on and that they will see something concrete, some sort of help. because you look back here and see it is not just one home damaged, it is not just a dozen, it is hundreds. and 14 people lost their lives in dawson springs alone, the youngest a 2-month-old little girl and the oldest an 86-year-old. people have lost again and we can't say it enough, everything. and when you've lost everything, where you go to restart, it is so hard to see, so hard to comprehend. people are grateful to be alive and helping each other but they have a long way to go, chris. >> it is president knows tr more than a photo on and presidents go there, because it means something to them, that the
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president of the united states acknowledges that something incredibly horrible has happened to their community, to their lives. on the other hand there is that, so what are you could going to help us do about it, what would you expect to see and hear from the president? >> well, chris, two of the recurring themes of biden's presidency so far have been one, the need for democratic government to show that it can deliver. i use democrat in a small d. but also this idea that we need to unify the country. and so the president has done this before, this is the fifth time he's had to visit a community devastated by a natural disaster. and he, as we have heard through him in thedy and at fort campbell and mayfield and just now arriving in dawson spring, is to praise the way everyone has worked together. the ordinary citizens working with the loadal government and state government and to try to get people what they need in
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this moment. as the white house said, to demonstrate we'll be here for as long as it takes until everyone here gets the response that they need from the government. now as we expect to see the president here shortly, he'll be with the governor of kentucky andy bashear, also with steven bashear, the governor of kentucky a decade ago. this town, dawson springs was the home town of steven bashear so that will give him an extra layer of the personal impact of what the town is dealing with. and we'll hear remarks from the president later. and he is traveling to a community devastated by a natural disaster and the frequency and intensity of this kind of storm is being attributed to climate change and and the president is going to make that point as well. we need to strengthen our resilient to do more to combat climate change but ultimately this is a president as consoler in chief who wants to hear directly from those dealing with this loss now and do whatever he can to offer solace as well.
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>> one of the most impactful statements was when governor bashear the number of missing on sunday when he was talking to chuck ran eight pages single spaces. gabe, over in mayfield, where the president made a stop this afternoon, i wonder what you're hearing from the community about what they thought about the visit and also federal action overall? >> reporter: hi there, chris. well certainly they're glad for the attention. but they want to see the follow up. i've noticed today, even more so than yesterday, you see all of this activity here. and down here, if you could look, this power pole is one of many that were splintered and so many people here with without power. just a few minutes ago, actually right over there behind me there was a utility crew putting up new power poles and continues that work just down the street and the recovery effort here is really moving at a quick pace. of course, can't come quick enough for some of these
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families that have lost their homes. we just spoke with one business owner, chris, and these are some of the stories that you hear here and we heard them from allison just a few moments ago, but this one business owner, he lost three businesses in one block and making things worse for him, he barely had any insurance. so he really doesn't know where things will go next. but as you said, chris, the more than 100 people still unaccounted for here in kentucky. the hope is that number will will drop in the coming days. just a short time ago we got news that a 75th person has been added to the death toll here in kentucky as a result of these storms. it is a 67-year-old who was cleaning up at a relative's house that happens during these natural disasters and the aftermath can be deadly. but certainly this is a community as is dawson springs and so many other cities and towns here in kentucky are now battling or just trying to find some sense of normalcy here. the power is starting to return
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here and we're starting to get slightly better cell phone signal as the infrastructure begins to be built back up again. but local officials estimate the damage here could stretch easily into the hundreds of million dollars if not top a billion and for the residents here they're glad to see the president's trip but they hope that the follow-through that federal officials will continue to keep their attention even after the cameras leave and after the attention, you know, goes away in just a few days. >> >> then they have a long road ahead. gabe guiterrez and allison and mike, thank you. i'm joined now by derek parent, a city council member in mayfield, kentucky. thank you so much. and i understand you met with president biden when he arrived. did you a chance to speak to him at all? what do you want the president to know? >> i like the president to know that, you know, that we need help here. got people that is hurting now and they're going to a good job.
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you have community, people in the community around the region, the state and people all over, they have their feet on the ground, going to -- so i'm thankful for that. we've had a lot of support from people outside of the community. and the community as well. we're doing all we can to try to get things cleaned up, you know, and make sure that people with immediate needs are being met. right now most importantly is making sure that we have -- people have shelter. that is most important right now. >> and what is the status of that? are people staying with friends, are there shelters set up? are there people who are still struggling to figure out where they're going to live? >> as of now, people are in surrounding towns and hotels and also at the state park. they have shelter set up there. and the county, you know, there is power there, so people are
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staying with others that live in the county. >> i know you have a lot of immediate things that need to be done and i'm sure that all of you who are on the council, all of you who are in public positions are working to do things like make sure people have a place to live. having said that, i wonder if you've had a chance to do any kind of financial assessment if your town, what it would take to rebuild and are the people who you represent on the council, are your friends and neighbors saying they want to stay and rebuild? >> i'm pretty sure that everyone wants to stay for the most part. but we have people andn subsidized housing that have nothing to go back to. also, the houses here are destroyed. so the next step is them trying to find out what is next. with the president being here, he had mentioned that, you know, that he will be here, you know,
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through a month from now, six months from now, making sure that we have the resources that are necessary. i think that is big down the road because a few weeks from now, when we start to rebuild and you know when people no longer have funds for shelters, then what is next? that is when resources will really be needed. at this current time, like i said, we have support from everywhere, which we're very thankful for that. from all over. it is coming in, doing whatever they can to help. >> and there are questions raised, does it have to be as bad as it it was. we know that those eight people confirmed to have died in the candle factory in mayfield, five of the survivors that were working that night told nbc news the supervisors refused to allow employees to leave. if those reports are true, are you confident that there will be an investigation and those that are responsible will be held
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liable? >> i don't know about that. as far as what was told at the candle company. i mean, you heard as well as myself, so i really don't know what was told, what the supervisors had told the people that were there. >> one part of a -- i was going to say that is one part of a very complicated future that is facing all of you. how are you doing, derek? >> i'm blessed. for now i'm currently standing at a hotel in paducah. there was no serious impact down at my house. so i'm going to say i'm blessed. and i'm alive as well. my family is too. so, my condolences and prayers go out to those that lost loved ones. not only here in mayfield, but in the other areas that were hit by the tornado as well. >> as all of us, we're grateful that you and your family are
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okay and our thoughts and prayers continue to go to those who have lost so much. derek parent, thank you so much. we do appreciate you taking the time to talk to us. good luck going forward. >> thank you, i appreciate it. we are staying close to kentucky all hour long because we're waiting for president biden to visit another town devastated by that tornado outbreak. we'll take you there live when he does. but first some brand-new reporting from capitol hill. spelling out a big setback for the president's build back better plan. sources telling our team that chuck schumer's now likely to punt a vote until next year. and later, what is next in the fight for former trump's tax returns now that a judge has ruled congress can get its hands on them. on them. similar. until always discreet invented a pad that protects differently. with two rapiddry layers. for strong protection, that's always discreet. question your protection. try always discreet.
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a potentially big setback for president biden at this hour. it looks unlikely now that his build back better plan will go to a vote by the democrats'
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self-imposed deadly at the end of the year. chuck schumer saying he likely will push that vote to 2022, perhaps march of '22. fuelling the pessimism, senator joe manchin still the lone holdout in his party. still a lot of negotiating still to be done. we should note that publicly neither schumer nor speaker pelosi is throwning in the towel but the plan is focusing on the voting rights act and looking at that until the christmas recess. joining us now, saw hill capper and john brenna han. john, the reason for that self-imposed deadline was the generally accepted wisdom that if you push back build back better into the midterm year, it gets a lot harder to get it done. how much harder and what does it mean for the fate of the bill potentially? >> yeah, you did a good setup. it hasn't been formally dropped yet. let's start there. senator schumer hasn't done
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that. the white house hasn't given any of that. but it does look like it is -- it is real trouble here to get it done by christmas. the point is when they put a dead line on lawmakers, they do that to try to force them into action. senators don't make choices until they have to, okay. and by putting a deadline on it, trying to force his colleagues, his 49 democratic colleagues into taking a stand. the problem is, with manchin, took a stand against him. so that is a problem for schumer. that is what he fiss. and it doesn't get any easier in january. there is a bad inflation report in january. does that help democrats or the president? i don't think it gets easier as the calendar runs into the election year. >> so, saw hill where is manchin holding out and what are folks telling you?
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>> he has a number of demands. he wants provisions like paid leave out of the bill and many democrats have made their peace with it. he wants tweaks to the electric applied to nonunion factors. not a big deal. but more recently he's complained about something else more difficult to fix. which is the sunset provisions. a number of programs are set to expire on the bill after one year, after two years, after less than ten years and they're funded by taxes over a long haul. manchin is now operating on the assumption that all of these programs will be extended and therefore have to be paid for on a ten-year basis which requires raising an extra several trillion dollars to pay for it. that is not going to happen. so the question is manchin posturing for one final sacrifice from this bill where he could finally get a yes, will he take an off-ramp and say i'll vote for these programs now but i won't extend them later or demand a structural change to the bill that could make it
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potentially not salvageable. let's listen to what he said about the timeline going forward. >> -- build back better before christmas. do you think that -- >> what now? >> that your issues could be resolved before christmas. >> we haven't even gotten anything back from the attorney. so procedurally, we don't have anything to vote on. >> so they need to clear the bill with the parliamentarian, they need 50 votes and hold all of the 50 votes through voter amma to amend and tweak and poison the bill and christmas is just ten days a way. it is a long way off. >> what does this mean for voting rights, john, and is that something that could get done by christmas? >> yeah, we were talking to senator rafael warknock of georgia, he's pushed on this issue. right now to get this done, they need some kind of rule to get the voting rights bill through
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and, you know, it doesn't look like that is going to happen. other senators are involved, senator thune of virginia and senator tester, democrats are pushing on this. but, you know, we may see democrats try to push a vote and it doesn't move through the senate and do some nominations, some big nominations and report nominations and then head home and try to see where they could go on build back better. so i mean, everything is up in the air right now. it is so fluid. but right now it is very difficult to see major bill going through at this moment. >> you know, part of this is what this means for president biden, u-gov polling putting him below 50%. there was a new poll that came out, most americans are warn out by covid, he doesn't get high numbers for how he's dealing with covid, that is a new monmouth poll.
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so does that play into the president's agenda and frankly how much mojo he has to push on this stuff? >> well, 100%. and look, we have another potential surge in covid right now. we're -- in some states and cities they're reinstating mask mandates and that is an ongoing debate. that might overwhelm anything. we have hhs secretary talking about they might need more funding. so this is concerning right now. i do think that biden is -- this is a low point in his presidency so far. goes into his anniversary of him taking over is january 20th. he goes into early 2022, you know, not in a strong point. i think that not getting bbb done right now hurts them. if you talk to white house officials they say the important thing is to get it done. we don't care if it is done by christmas or january, if we
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could get it done and that is the message they're putting out right now. >> john and sawhill, thank you very much. we appreciate it. we want to go very briefly to dawson springs in kentucky. the president has arrived there now. you could see the back of his head there. he has the baseball cap on and he has been going around, there is a lot of folks there who are sifting through what is left of their homes, of their lives. talking to them and making assurances that the federal government is there, that they're going to stay there and they're not going to leave when all of the television cameras are gone. so we're keeping our eye and waiting to hear more from the president there in kentucky. after the break, we're going to go one-on-one with a top public health official, nih director dr. francis collins what you need to know and what we should be doing as we approach the holidays. oh my goodness... wow, look at all those! you get hungry for more and then you're just like, “wow, i'm learning about my family.”
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right now omicron represents only about 3% of new cases nationwide. but 13% of cases in new york and new jersey. and it is all happening as we're seeing outbreaks among pro-sports, the nfl, the nba, nhl, more than a hundred people placed in covid protocols just this week. eight cleveland browns players, ten chicago bulls an seven brooklyn nets. the nfl had 70 players test positive on monday and tuesday. and the l.a. rams have been forced to close their practice facility. with me, dr. francis collins, the last week as the director for the national institute of health. so good to see you. i hope you have a good holiday season planned. but in the meantime, if i can, director collins, officials have been saying omicron doesn't appear to cause more severe disease but if it has a doubling rate of two days, where does that leave us heading into the
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holidays? >> well, not in a good place. in terms of what we could expect to happen in the next two or three weeks. and this is very much what was also seen in south africa where omicron first emerged. and seeing right now in the united kingdom where something like 44% of cases in london are now omicron and again doubling about every two or three days. so the bad news is this is a very contagious virus, it spreads more rapidly than delta or the original virus from wuhan. it is just really good at getting from one person to the next. the somewhat more encouraging news is it seems not to be causing disease that is quite as severe. although we need better data about what that is going to look like in the u.s. the other news of course is are we protective from this, from current vaccines an the answer is yes, sort of. but if you really want to be
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protected against omicron, the booster is critical. it gives you a much better chance of shrugging off this virus if it floats past. so if there is one message i hope everybody listening to this would here, if you haven't yet gotten that booster and you are eligible, most adults are, now is the time. do not wait. if you want to be protected for when this omicron surge hits us, which is likely to be by the end of this month or certainly in january, the booster is your best way for yourself and your family. so don't wait. >> and dr. fauci echoed what you said earlier and he said you don't need an omicron specific booster, just get the booster. having said that, do we have any idea how long that might be effective? >> we don't. we haven't had enough time with boosters to really see how long they last. the earliest booster program in israel just got started at the end of july. and it still, as you could look at the calendar and say, a bit
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soon so find out whether that wanes as well. we'll know more about the spring perhaps, but certainly right now whether or not that booster is going to last you for six months or six years, you want it right now because we have this really big challenge coming our way called omicron and my hope and prayer is that most of them will be really mild and hospitalizations won't be so common but that depends on people getting that booster. and by the way, the 50 million people who haven't even gotten their first dose, they are really at high risk now and it is not too late for those folks to get started. that would be a very good thing to do. give yourself a christmas present and finally take action because a vaccine is safe and effective and their your best protection. >> there is a level of relief with these early indications that omicron doesn't cause as severe disease as delta has. having said that, we have had a number of doctors on the ground in the trenches, as they have
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been for two years now, and they're saying their big concern is their seeing their colleagues testing positive, and yes, they're not severely ill, but they're out of work. and it is happening to teachers, happening to health care, it is happening we're seeing it as we said in professional sports. but let me ask you about health care in particular. do you share concerns of many of the doctors that we've talked to that could be devastating as we go into the holiday season, where we know the case loads are going to be up, the drss and nurses may be sidelined because they've been exposed to omicron. >> yeah, this is certainly a big concern. and unfortunately this is happening at a time where some parts of the country are already very stressed from delta infections which are on the upswing. delta is still with us and causing a lot of grief. especially in the northern states, maybe because of cold weather. and again, sadly, most of the people who are really getting sick from delta are the
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unvaccinated. and that is why in many instances we have terrible stresses on the health care system. and yes, if omicron gets added to that, i think most frontline health care workers if anybody wants the booster, that is them and i hope they're all now if not already receiving that and doing so next week or so because this is going to be a really important moment to have those folks protected so they could continue to go to work. you could still get a break thru infection even after a booster but it is generally mild and less likely to happen in the first place. so this is our best hope to try to keep things going is use those boosters. >> on some companies who are taking employees very seriously, taking action against employees who are holdouts, kroger has ended paid leave for unvaccinated employees, google taking a similar step, delta is adding a $200 surcharge on to workers on their company health care if they're not getting vaccinated. i mean, where do we need to go with this?
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yesterday, as i'm sure you well know, was the one year anniversary of the first shot in arm of a shot here in the united states. our numbers are below many major industrialized countries that are 80%, 85% vaccinated. is this what -- what are do -- do we do now? >> i hate that we have to do anything other than providing people with compelling information. >> but it hasn't worked. >> it hasn't worked for 50 million people. so we have to defend for the protection of the vulnerable people around us who are actually the ones that are at greatest risk if people around them are not vaccinated to do something. so hence the mandates, hence every kind of incentive that you could think of to try to convince those who are hesitant to go ahead and roll up their sleeves. i work, i'm the head of this agency that has some 20,000 employees. our vaccination rates weren't that great to be honest, even though in it is the nih, until
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the mandate came along, now it is over 97%. i'm sorry to see challenges being placed, if you're just interested in public health and recognize that freedom is not just about liberties, it is also about responsibles, these mandates make total sense. they're the historically the way we got through things like smallpox. >> dr. francis collins, we are very pleased that you took some of your closing minutes as the nih director to speak with us and our viewers and we wish you a wonderful holiday and another act whatever that might be. thank you so much for your service. we appreciate it. >> thanks, a lot, chris. get your boosters, everybody. >> coming up, how soon the justice department could decide whether to pursue criminal contempt charges against former trump chief of staff mark meadows.
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the moment court watchers have been waiting for could happen soon. former minneapolis police officer kim potter taking the stand at her own murder trial tor shooting dante write during a traffic stop. potters said she meant to use a taser instead of a gun. joining us, nbc news shaq brewster who is in minneapolis. shaq, what could you tell us about today's testimony and do we have any kind of a schedule yet that would suggest when we might hear from potter herself? >> reporter: nothing formal just yet, chris. but when you compare to what we've heard from the prosecution and the state presented that case and you look at the witness list, they're getting toward the end of that witness list. which mean this is could go to the defense at any point now. which at that point, that would mean we could hear from kim potter who the attorneys say we will hear from at some point during this trial. but the testimony today has focused around the use of force. the jury hearing from a use of
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force expert hired by the prosecution who studied this entire case and went through all of the video and the statements made and came to a conclusion over whether the use of deadly force in this instance was appropriate. listen to his conclusion. >> the use of deadly force was not appropriate and the evidence suggests that a reasonable officer in an officer's position could not have believed that it was proportional to the threat at the time. in other words, the use of force was apparently excessive and inappropriate. >> reporter: he went on to say that even the use of a taser as potter apparently intended to do, he said that would have been inappropriate because of the risks to the driver and the other officers who were involved in the situation at this time. and that contradicts what you've heard from the defense which is arguing that even if potter meant to use her taser, that is justified use of force and even
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if she intended to use her weapon, the defense is arguing that was justified. so you have the prosecution using their experts to go at directly what the defense has been arguing. a little bit, something else to note is that this earlier today and yesterday, we heard from the actual sergeant who was training officers on the use of tasers, it got very complex, there were a lot of powerpoint slides and text and you could tell that at least based on the accounts from the reporters in the room, the jurors were getting a little restless. at one point the judge told them to stand up and take a stretch. so that they could focus on one of the reporters said there was nodding off happening in the jury room. that is not the case that we're hearing today. they seem much more engaged, taking a few more notes than yesterday, chris. >> and you could bet that won't be the case when the defendant takes the stand. shaq brewster, thank you. there is a big question on capitol hill today. and that is will former trump chief of staff mark meadows face criminal charges. late last night the full house voted to recommend that the justice department pursue those
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charges against meadows after he refused to appear for a deposition. and while the doj makes that decision, the house ways and means committee is one step closer to getting its hands on former president trump's tax returns. a federal judge on tuesday throwing out a lawsuit that trump hopes would block the release of those documents. his lawyers quickly appealed the decision. i'm joined now by capitol hill correspondent leeann caldwell and pete williams. so leeann, that house paging the contempt vote overnight. what happens now and how quickly? >> reporter: hey, chris. so it goes to the department of justice where the department of justice decides on if case or n. what they're going to do, that is probably a better question for pete than me. but we saw this process play out with steve bannon just a few weeks ago and it did take some time for the department of justice to say that they were going to take up the case trxt
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is a different threshold for them to do so. mark meadows was the former chief of staff to the former president at the time of january 6. just like steve bannon was not a member of the administration at the time. so there could be a little bit more of an executive privilege claim there. just a little bit. again, a great question for pete. but, i will say, the fact that last night in this house vote only two republicans voted to hold meadows in this criminal contempt referral compared to nine republicans who did so with steve bannon. well i asked one of those republicans who switched their vote from bannon to meadows, representative fred upton of michigan why he and his colleagues didn't vote for meadows and he didn't say it was because of the this claim of executive privilege. he said he thought that the committee rushed it a little bit. he wanted to wait and others wanted to wait a few more weeks to see if meadows would continue to comply. so they thought it moved a little bit too quickly and that is why they have most of those -- those no-votes from the
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other seven republicans who did vote to refer steve bannon, chris. >> so pete, the timing obviously, the members of committee would like the doj to make a ruling immediately. but do they feel that pressure at all, is there any indication of how quickly we might hear something? >> no, none at all. and they don't do this very often before the bannon decision it had been decades before the justice department had actually presented a contempt citation to a grand jury. so, i would say, you know, it is going to be at least a couple of weeks. i would be surprised if they get this done before the new year. because there some novel questions to look at here. there are the executive privilege question, there is the issue that there is i long standing justice department policy that said executive branch officials current and former can't even be compelled to appear before a congress. what the committee said here is well this is different. that may involve privileged materials, what they wanted is for meadows to come up and
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testify about material that he's already given them. that he himself said in nonprivileged. so that is another issue the justice department has to wade through. >> we only have 30 seconds left because you don't have a crystal ball, but the federal judge tossing out the lawsuit and the appeal, where does that go now? >> it does go to the d.c. court of appeals. they'll now decide this. this is a decision, remember, written by a trump judge who said that as long as there is a law, and there is one, that said congress can get tax returns from any individual, the treasury department has to turn this over. so, if the trump legal team loses in the d.c. court of appeals, their next stop would be the supreme court. but there is no guarantee the court would even take the case. so this will all play out though over the next -- this is going toik a couple of months to resolve. >> pete williams and leeann caldwell, thank you. lawyers for prince andrew in a filing in u.s. district court argued that a sexual abuse
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lawsuit against him should be thrown out. the case involves accusations from virginia due fray, that she was raped and sexually assaulted by them, accusations the prince has denied. the following reasons since she was over the legal age of consent at the time, 17, her lawsuit under that state's child victim's act should be dismissed. lawyers will be in court on january 4th to argue that motion. and we're keeping a close eye on president biden where he continues to see firsthand the devastation left behind by the tornados. he's talking to survivors. any minute now he is scheduled to speak. but first why a qanon follower was just sentenced to more than two years in prison. n two years in prison. 're 55 and u, t- mobile has plans built just for you. whether you need a single line or lines for family members, you'll get great value on america's most reliable 5g network. like 2 lines of unlimited for just $27.50 a line. only at t-mobile.
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obsession with qanon saying he took it hook, line, and sinker and really fell into that hole. joining us, the reporter whose name is on the buy line. he never made it there, but he brought with him an arsenal, didn't he, josh? >> that's right. he had a trailer behind that truck that broke down. he did eventually make to it the capitol late on the night of january 6th, early on january 7th. and that was trailer was filled with weapons, both assault-type rifle, pistol, and a stunning amount of ammunition. i think 2,500 rounds of ammunition for the various weapons that he had in his trailer when he sort of holed up in a hotel room on that very tense night that followed the january th storage of the capitol. >> for a lot of folks they look at this from the outside and they say, yeah, he never made it, though, and he never did anything. he wasn't part of the people storming the capitol.
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so what was behind the judge's decision, the decision for more than two years behind bars? >> well, you know, if there hadn't been any weapons involved and there hadn't been any travel to washington and it was just spouting off on the enter, i think he would have gotten a lighter sentence. but the judge, judge amy berman jackson, who has handled prominent cases in washington basically said she thought there were some steps towards doing these sorts of things. and she said that the people that knew cleveland meredith the best, his parents, his family members, they were urgently trying to reach law enforcement that day. and that wasn't because they thought they had a family member saying foolish things on text messages. that was because they also thought there was a reasonable chance he might do something. indeed, on january 7th, in d.c., meredith got in an altercation, with a motorist, who he thought was driving too slow or blocking
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traffic, came up and head butted the man in the street. there is some indication this is someone who has anger management issues that go beyond spouting off on social media. >> judge amy berman jackson kind of rails against this kind of heated rhetoric that eventually can, indeed, lead to violence. >> yeah, i mean, she said -- this is ironic, i think, that some of the comments president trump, former president trump has made in the last few months, like suggesting that he still believes that he won the election or that there was widespread fraud, and the way that many republicans acted in lock step with him really is a reason that some of trump's followers kneeled to be punished more severely, because this threat hasn't gone away and people like mr. meredith that may lack some of the filters that a lot of other folks have that lead them to weed out those kinds of messages or ignore or not act on them. some people don't have those filters. and when you are putting those kinds of metaphors out there and
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those kind of suggestions that the democracy has been stolen, it's not surprising that some people act on those or progress towards more violent kind of tendencies like explicit dead threats here against house speaker nancy pelosi, and also the mayor of the district of columbia, muriel bouz ir. >> josh, thanks. nice christmas tree, and stockings, i hope they are filled with good things on christmas morning. >> thank you. >> thank you for watching this hour of hallie jackson reports. i am chris jansing. "deadline: white house" starts after this. "deadline: white hous after this if it works on nfl jerseys it'll work for you. seriously! just perfect! and it'll save up to $150 a year. and it's cold! so you will turn to cold? fine! i'll turn to cold! that guy needs to chill out! this was a cold call!
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♪♪ hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. we are watching dawson springs, kentucky, devastated over weekend by those deadly tornados. president biden spent the morning surveying the damage and visiting survivors in kentucky. we will bring you his remarks when they start. we begin today in uncharted territory in terms of the places the depths into which the twice impeached expresident is leading us. the slow assault on democracy doesn't come into view often enough to sustain the public's attention and drive a national conversation but there are clear signs that that's about to change. right now in no small part due the republican liz cheney's commitment to row vealing the trump led gop


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