tv Deadline White House MSNBC December 29, 2021 1:00pm-3:00pm PST
hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. there are few americans who have shaped our politics in the past few decades the way that former senate majority leader harry reid has. even fewer have had such a meteoric rise from the most humble beginnings as reid who passed away after pancreatic cancer.
even by the standards of the political profession where against the odds biographies are common, what mr. reid overcome was extraordinary. he was raised in kenzian circumstances, his home had no indoor plumbing. his father an alcoholic miner who died by suicide and his mother helped the family survive by taking in laundry from local brothels. here's what he said in his farewell speech in 2016. >> i didn't make it because of my good looks, because i am a genius. i made it because i worked hard. >> one of the longest serving senate majority leaders of all time, reid was one of the most powerful figures in washington during the president sees of george w. bush and barack obama. crafting a legislative legacy from obamacare to a mass live
stimulus bill and new regulations for wall street in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis that is practically unmatched. from the "washington post," acknowledged even by republican adversaries as a wiley tactician and master of the senate's archean rules, mr. reid notched his greatest legislative achievement in 2009 when he steered a landmark health care bill through the senate over solid gop opposition. tributes have been pouring in from political allies anded a ver saerks folks from the other side of the aisle. in a statement, president biden said this -- during the two decades we served together in the u.s. senate and the eight years we worked together while i served as vice president, harry met the marker for what i always believed is the most important thing by which you can measure a person, their action and their word f. harry said he would do something, he did it. if he gave you his word, you could bank on it. that is how he got things dodd for the good of the country for decades. from his one-time republican
rival in the senate, mitch mcconnell, this, quote, the nature of harry's and my jobs brought us into frequent and sometimes intense conflict over politics and policy, but i never doubted that harry was always doing what he earnestly deeply felt was right, for nevada and for our country. but arguably, the most touching tribute came from the man whose own legacy issin intimately connected to harry reid in many ways, president barack obama. reid wr0e9 in his autobiography he once gave the then junior senator from illinois unsolicited advice, he urged him to run for president. saying this, quote, if you want to be president, you can be president now. reid turned out to be right. more than a dozen years later president obama wrote a letter to reid in his final days. here's a little bit of it. you were a great leader in the senate. early on you were more generous to me than i had any right to
expect. i wouldn't have been president had it not been for your encouragement and support. i would not have gotten most of what i got done without your skill and determination. most of all, you have been a good friends. as different as we are i think we both saw something of ourselves in each other, a couple of outsiders who defied the to odds and new how to take a punch and cared about the little guy. you know what? we made a pretty good team. the world is better because of what you have done. not bad for a skinny poor kid from kerchlight. that is where we gwynn today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. robert gibs is here, former press secretary to president obama. and mark leebo vich. both msnbc contributors. robert gibbs that letter from president obama pulls the threads that you might not think of when you look at the two men. but they were so important, each to the other. >> absolutely. i mean, it's arguably to say,
nicolle, that barack obama might not have run for president were it not for the encourage men of harry reid. at the end of 2005 we had done a lot of political travel. then senator obama was taken away from his family on the weekend. he began to understand, if i run for president i am not going the see my girls, see michelle as much. he began to think of reasons not to run for president. unsolicited harry reid calls him over to his office -- i tweeted this out last night. both senator obama and i didn't know what harry had in mind. usually the staff would give us a heads up because harry goss going to ask senator obama to do so and they would give the staff a heads up, you can start doing this thing. he came back to my office, and i said, what did harry want? he wants me to run for president. it then gave then senator obama
reasons to run now, not reasons not to run now. it was a surprise to senator obama. it was an interesting day, to say the least. i think it was genuine and heart felt from senator reid. and it really made him rethink how he would spend that year and what he would do next year. >> and then you look at the forceful nature and sort of tactical and strategic success of how he pushed through the president's agenda, especially obamacare. but i know there was more than that. was that -- is there a sense that that commitment was sort of made to then-senator obama when he urged him to run? or was that sort of more in the vein of doing his majority as senate majority leader? what was president obama's sense? >> i think it was both of those things. i also think, you know, what animated senator reid around
getting obamacare done -- in reality, you know, whether senator reid or speaker nancy pelosi, both had as big a stamp as anybody on getting that through in those final few months of early 2010 i think what animated, too, harry reidst wasn't each his president or his friend or as a senator, but having grown up the way he had, not having health care, understanding the impact it had on him, his family, and the impact it could have possible ble for millions drove him in a way that that few reporters are driven. i think really in both president obama and senator reid -- you mentioned what president obama wrote at the end of that letter. i think they both saw in each other the amazing improbability of their -- of what they had achieved, right? the improbability of this poor kid from searchlight, the improbability of this skinny
black hit from hawaii. i think that united them and they had a genuine affection for each other. >> that's what so powerful about that letter, that reminder. mark leibovich, the most powerful politicians are the ones -- we will talk later in the program about john madden. the most powerful people in this country are ones that never lose touch not just where they came from, but where people live. you can say that of harry reid, of president obama, of john madden, but that that was the foundation of their bond seems like such an important reminder as we wade and muddle through this moment in politics, mark. >> absolutely. i think, you know, harry reid, in addition to his very kind of quirky gifts, was a great listener. i mean, there was no one in the senate, certainly no one in leadership in either party for a long time who listened to what his members needed and wanted, but who also did not need the spotlight the way other legislative leaders do often.
he didn't care if someone else went on the sunday show. he didn't care if someone else got credit for a, b, or c, that to him was the essence of getting things done, that was the essence of vote counting, that was the essence of the substance of things he felt he was here for. i mean, he was really able to understand politicians on both sides of the aisle in ways that people underestimated. he was understated. he did not demand credit, didn't demand the floor, didn't control the floor. he was someone who was as forceful a leader as we have seen in a long time up here. >> i think the correct term would be a work horse, not a show horse. mark, i want to read something you wrote about him. reid's den is a dorm that the bright painted par trot of the martin luther king, one of his
heroes whose view that the arc of the moral universe is long but bends towards justice was often echoed by president obama. reid himself always seemed disposed that the arc of universe bent toward a brawl. just clarence thomas, an embarrassment, and president george w. bush a loser for which he later apologize and a liar for which he did not n. 2016 he dismissed trump as a big fat guy who didn't win many fights. reid himself was more than ready to fight and fight dirty. i was always willing to do things that others were not willing to do, he told me. that's an important aspect to his tenure, his leadership. i worked for the president. i remember feeling like he went for the gutter in those attacks against the president. but it was part of, to say it, his recipe for success. >> yeah. i mean, look, we should not sugar coat this.
i mean, this was a very, very hard-nosed, somewhat bare knuckled cynical politician. you know, it shouldn't necessarily be celebrated. in 2012, he came right out and said that, mitt romney didn't pay any taxes. he said i have a friends in new jersey or something who told me. i don't know what his rationale was. but it turned out not to be true. he later apologized to the then governor romney. he said, look, this is the dirty work that not a lot of people around washington are willing to do right now. he was extremely tough. some called him dirty. and she was an absolute street fighter. he boxed. his background was fuge illistic. ultimately, he was not someone to be trifled with. >> i want to play something that
harry reid said about the man who would be president after your old boss, robert gibbs. this is harry reid on donald trump in a november 15, 2016 speech. >> many of our fellow americans believe that trump's election val dates the bullying and aggressive behavior trump modelled on a daily basis. how can we teach our children that -- we fail to hold trump accountable, we all bear responsibility for normalizing his behavior. >> tragically, that was preciousient. his colleagues on both sides of the aisle, many of them are celebrating his leadership, the good, the bad, and the ugly today, did exactly what harry warned them against, if we don't hold him accountable we all bear responsibility to normalizing his behavior. what stands out to me is the
moment in which he said that. normalizing the "access hollywood" tape where he brags about grabbing women between the legs. and at why the republican party is impotent in calling trump out for anything, inciting an insurrection, good people on both sides -- all of it. all of it goes back to that moment that they started normalizing everything that trump did. what was the behind the scenes conversation between people like harry reid and president obama about what was happening to the republican party in that moment? >> look, you could begin to see it certainly not to the degree it is now, but you could begin to see it really at the beginning of 2009, not far after the election, you know, senator mcconnell and others are basically saying, look, we are going to shut the whole thing down. we are not going to give obama anything. so i think they -- they understood, senator reid
understood that you can be involved in bare knuckle politics, but the game was changing in a markedly different way. and i think you saw that happen a bit over the obama presidency, but nothing compared to what you saw at the beginning of and continued through the entirety of trump's term. and i think, you know, it -- as mark said, you could understand harry reid as a street fighter, and everybody that interacted with him knew that. i think he realized, though, that with donald trump, the game was changing in a fundamental way that you couldn't -- you could never put that jeany back in the bottle. and we see it manifesting itself still today. >> mark leibovich, reid said this to you. they can say what they want. we had over 100 judges that we couldn't get approve so i had no
choice. either obama's presidency would be a joke or one of fruition. this is the debate before the senate now. what would harry reid do about voting rights and other aspects of this president's agenda that are stuck? >> my guess is -- obviously he has been out of the game for a while but i think he would go right ahead and blow the thing up. a lot of republicans sort of blamed him for taking the first step around what happened with the filibuster the last few years. what he was saying about obama's judges was at that moment very fresh after the merrick garland situation in 2016. you know, essentially republicans had just blockaded a supreme court nomination that republicans -- or that democrats expected to have and that president obama put forward. so i think that's the context. but, no, i think whichever one of you used the jeany out of the bottle metaphor, i think that's sort of where we are. i think in some ways harry reid
was an extremely steely realist. i mean, he was someone who -- one of the things that was kind of i think charming about him is he was not the eternal optimist in politics. he was an eternal pessimist. he always sort of boasted about that. it kind of came from his hard and skrubl minutes. but he had a very clear minded view of what he thought -- and what adversaries to do to him and his sides. >> i want to welcome in harry dockis. there are so many tributes to harry reid that resonate with all the conversations you and i have around the filibuster. take a stab at the question i just asked mark. what would harry reid do about the filibuster when it comes to voting rights? >> i have no doubt that senator reid would be in favor of doing
whatever it took to protect voting rights. you know, we talk about senator reid being a street fighter. but he was a street fighter for a cause. you know, he wasn't a street fighter for the sake of being a street fighter. he was a street fighter because he believed that it was important that the affordable care act passed. a street fighter to make sure that the rich paid their fair share of taxes, a street fighter to make sure the hard working men and women in the country got a fair deal out of government. he was a realist. he was not an unbridled optimist. if he was he were looking at the senate today and voting rights today based on everything i know about him, the tfrgss i have had with him, he would -- the conversations i have had with him, he would say we need to do what we need to do in order to protect the right to vote in our democracy. >> you see it in mitch mcconnell's glowing tribute to him. he was unafraid to use the power that he had. i think that is in some ways the
most stark contrast between the current majority leader. is that fair? mark elias? >> i don't think -- i wouldn't draw a contrast to the current majority leader. i think both of them have had to deal with the numbers in the senate. and there are auto -- 50 democrats in the senate. and you need to line up all 50 democrats. that's something that senator reid dealt with and was very -- was very realistic about the limits what have he could get done. but also not sentimental about the rules of the senate as such. i mean that's i think better than saying that he was a pessimist -- i would say he was not a sentimentalist. he was not going to say, well, because there is this filibuster rule that has been around a long time we have to continue to have this filibuster rule if it is not serving to the interests of the american people.
>> here's what he wrote on this topic. the filibuster is suffocating the will of the american people, the senate is now a place where the most pressing issues facing our country are disrared along with the will of the american people overwhelmingly calling for action. the future of our country is sacrificed at the altar of the filibuster. something must change. that's why i am calling on the senate to apolish the filibuster in all of its forms. where would we be if we heed this call? >> if we heed harry reid's call, we have an opportunity to save our democracy f. we don't, we are allowing the big lie to succeed. that's the stakes we have coming up in front of us in the u.s. senate. and i pray every night that we choose wisely. >> mark elias, thank you so much for being part of our coverage. my thanks as well to robert
gibbs. mark leibovich will be back with us in the next hour. when we come back, for some, for many, confusion about where we are with covid and what we are supposed to do if we test positive remains high. where to get our tests as the case count across this country continues to break new records. we will try to sort through the good and the bad. plus, sometimes they don't even try to hide it. a trump white house trade adviser confesses to getting together with steve bannon the try overturn the will of the voters and keep donald trump as president. also, remembering john madden. all those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break of don't go anywhere. continues after a quick break of don't go anywhere. building a future where cancers can be cured. strokes can be reversed. joints can be 3-d printed. and there isn't one definition of what well feels like.
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today the biden administration detailed their latest efforts to assist states and struggling hospitals while warning that this current spike in cases is likely to grow higher. president biden's covid team says the federal government has boosted support to more than 30 states in the last two weeks including most recently 2100 federal personnel, 1 million gloves, almost 350 face coverings and thousands of ventilators. but on testing, as demand soars with the rising case count the administration is facing questions not just about the supply at at-home rapid tests but now about the accuracy of them. the fda says research shows while some of those tests do detect the omicron variant the at-home tests may have quote reduced sensitivity to it meaning they could miss an infection. some blunt guidance on that
front from the cdc director this morning. watch. >> we do know that the antigen test may not perform as well as it had for prior variants but it's still picking up quite a bit of infection. so a really helpful tool. what we would reiterate, also in our guidance is if you have a negative antigen test and you have symptoms then you should go ahead and get the pcr test. >> joining us now, michael anderson a critical care physician and senior adviser. and mike himly. this white house is dealing with this incredible omicron spike in the country. i had chief of staff ran complain on yesterday. it is clear the white house is still firing on all cylinders pushing out aid to the states
and pushing out messaging. they have all of their health officials all over the air wave this is week. i wonder if you can take me inside what the effort looks like. >> nicolle, i think it is so interesting you mentioned your enter rue with ron complain yesterday. you gave him an opportunity to respond to what -- maybe i will get in trouble for saying this, to me one of the sillier manufactured controversies having to do with a very much out of context comment president biden made earlier this week in a conversation with governors. the reason it is silly is because there are more legitimate things to pose questions to the white house about, how they have been handling things, especially the issue of testing to focus on that with a a bit much to me. as we mark the end of the calendar year here and take stock of how the administration has handled covid we think back to candidate biden promising a clear break with the trump administration in running a science first, we will follow the science administration. we have seen a subtle shift over
the last few months in how they have approached this. i cite three comments from three of his top medical advisors. dr. francis collins, who leaving his post at the nih weeks ago was asked what he would do differently. he said he would do more studies of human behavior. one of things that stymied this fight against the pandemic is there is a small amount of people in the united states who refuse to do what we need to do to stop covid. the on monday, you heard dr. fauci talk about the word balance and shrinking the isolation time to five days. he was referring to the balance between the need to keep critical functions of our country running and following the science about when the transmission is likely to occur. and dr. wallensky said science
can't operate in a vacuum. so when you look at the way this president has operated we have heard so often the white house describe his super power as empathy. but one of his great political skills, what got him to this point is being able to identify that the majority of the country may not be the loudest part of the country, the noisiest, the angriest. and president biden has over time begun to share that frustration that covid is very much a part of their life and they feel like they have been doing everything they have been asked to do and yet we still have to do this. that's what we have seen in the evolution of this administration's approach. yes, following the science but being mindful of the fact that americans want to go back to normal as much as possible. all of the new guidelines are about getting us to that point as much as is possible. >> it is so interesting, mike. i agree with you, i mean, the notion that this president who -- i think next week the
united states supreme court will hear arguments on his mandate. of course he views the federal government as leading the charge in defeating the pandemic. and it was interesting to hear -- i guess on the defensive isn't even the right term. but you are right, we spent days in this omicron surge asking questions about what he meant. flesh out -- you pulled so many threads there. human behavior. i wonder how much understanding human behavior plays into a mental health crisis, not just for adults but in children in light of the fact that the idea of staying home for five days is not a luxury for many people. this idea of ten days is not anything actual people might have done. it doesn't incentivize testing. talk about the real world and their understanding of human behavior, if it had any role in
the five-day recommendation. >> it absolutely did. dr. wallensky said something also to this point today. she wants to put forward recommendations that people will actually follow. >> yeah. >> there was a recognition that ten days was too much to ask of americans, especially as it relates to school. you know, this president -- he's married to a teacher. teachers unions have always basketball supportive of him. but he was at odds with them to a certain extent earlier this year during his efforts of doing more to put students back into the classroom. perhaps because his wife is teacher he knows the importance of them being in a classroom. a lot of their efforts have been getting to this test to day strategy rather than the prosupposition being if there are positive tests you shut a school down, but rather you follow the guidance, being a close contact doesn't necessarily mean you have to quarantine. now that we have more and more students that are vaccinated, it allows students to remain open
as much as possible. but the administration is reckoning with the fact that the case counts are exponentially so much higher now than they were a few weeks ago and even higher than they were at the peak. so that is what a driving a pragmatic strategy here than something that is simply about following what might be the best science. there are an important component to what they keep recommending, the isolation and quarantining has to be coupled with mask wearing in the second half of that ten-day period. that's a high burden for them in deal with a public that refuses to do it. but it is essential, as we know. >> dr. anderson we are going to get to all of this with you. i want to do something basic with you. i remember at earlier points in the pandemic when we would get the day's case number and scientists and doctors said that's what tested positive. the actual number is a factor of x. two days ago the case number was 500,000.
i don't know what it is today. that's the number of positive tests. what is your view of the number of positives i don't understand he and she who tested positive? >> especially with omicron. we know it's much higher because this is a much more contagious variant. i have got friends across the country that are double vaccinated and boosted but unfortunately getting breakthrough cases. they are in that number because they have been tested. to your point we know there are a lot of folks out there that aren't getting tested. the number has got to be higher. that's disconcerting going into the third year of this. this is the two-year anniversary of when reports first emerged on this virus. i think your point is well taken that the numbers are probably scary higher than that. >> can you just -- i also -- half the people i know tested positive. a lot of them were in isolation for ten days because the new guidance hadn't come out yet. go threw -- remind everybody. you test positive. what do you do?
>> yeah, testing positive, there is a big fork in the road. are you symptomatic? are you coughing? do you have a soar throat? you have the headache that seems to come with omicron? really you have got to get away -- be away from folks so you don't spread it. you have got to take care of yourself. contact your primary care prior. if you are at high risk there are therapies out there, new therapies emerging for covid, and you have just got to make sure you do whatever you can to prevent the spread of this. if you are asymptom addic, you test positive because you were exposed or maybe you had a sniffle and you are feeling better, that five days, i think, as mike points out is really important. but also after that five days, and i know people are sick of masks, i know they are hearing about hand washing and avoiding crowds but it's really important that we maintain those basics of good public health hygiene after that five-day period. >> dr. anderson, we have talked over the two years about kids.
so many times. thank god the gift of science, the vaccine is now available for kids between 5 and 11. and when i look at -- i think it is important to be cautious about how we describe this. there are more kids hospitalized for covid. but some of the kids are hospitalized for other things and tested positive for covid. make sure that we have that understood correctly. and then talk about how vaccines are protecting kids. it's my understanding that there are not a lot of vaccinated kids hospitalized with quid. >> you are right. we are seeing increasing numbers. but we are testing kids as they come in for something else and they turn out positive. the numbers are going up. thank god, it is rare we see a kid critically ill. it is not unheard of. we are seeing kids still in the intensive care unit.
about but as you point out kids under 5 don't qualify yet for the vaccine. we have got to do everything that we can to protect them. you also point out that kids 5 and above, the 5 to 12 age range, it is probably only just a little above 20% of kids that are fully vaccinated. the long-term ramifications of this virus are so unknown and so scary if i could take one message and highlight it tonight, it's get your child vaccinated. it is safe. it's effective. it prevents the rare child from getting critically ill from there. and of course we have got to push as a pediatric community to get the vaccine for kids under 5. >> mike, my last question for you is about dr. biden. will she take on this sort of really yawning gap -- i think it's 24% of kids between 5 and 11 that are vaccinated. it has been available since the beginning of november. i wonder as kids kind of
endeavor to go back to school after the christmas and new year's holiday, will she take on a bigger role? what is the plan to sort of tie staying in in-person school which i think every american agree is a priority, to getting kids in that age group vaccinated? >> well, nicolle, she won't take it on. she's already been doing it. rather quietly, not with a lot of notice from the washington press corps but the first lady will be traveling the country extensively over the last few weeks especially with the education secretary visiting schools, visiting classrooms, visiting hospitals, stressing how important it is to get young people vaccinated. this is something she feels very passionately about. it is obviously a voice within the president in terms of who the president listens to. she brings information back, talks with families she is encountering and shares that experience with her husband and that helps to inform his own
thinking. as we talk about the key players in this administration over the force of this first year, dr. biden is often overlooked. but look over the travel schedule she has had advocating for a number of her husband's priorities, especially this one. it's one we expect her to continue as well. >> it is something she's doing we don't necessarily know about it. if you get a chance to talk to her about it we would broadcast that on this program. i think this is the next front. if you want your kids to stay in school most schools will give kids an opportunity to test out of a quarantine if they have had a close contact. it is enter twined with keeping your kid inside a classroom. dr. anderson, mike himly, thank you both. another day, another coup plot revealed, this time buy one of the orchestrators himself. peter navarro admitting to trying to line up 100 republican lawmakers to object to president
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green bay team as linemen, halfbacks and fullbacks, pulling guards who were going to make sure we remanned the results back to the battleground states for a couple of weeks so we could get to the bottom of that. >> so, in case you didn't recognize him in a black t-shirt that was former white house trade guy peter in a elevatoro last month telling steve bannon he's the hero of january 6th for their joint plan on how to stop the certification of president joe biden's victory, presidency. essentially admitting to the coup plot. now new reporting in the daily beast sheds now light on their operation and how politicians like gosar and ted cruz were in on it. navaro says quote it was the perfect plan and it all predicated on peace and calm on capitol hill. we didn't even need protesters because we had over 100 congressmen committed to it. the daily beast reporting goes on to say this, quote, their
hope was to run the clock as long as possible to increase public pressure on then vice president mike pence to send the electoral votes back to six contested states where republican led legislature koss overturn the results. joining us item -- tim miller and eugene. tim, the six committee is interested in pursuing criminal referrals. one of them is obstructing a congressional proceeding. it doesn't require the violence part of it. just impeding it. and navarro said it out loud. >> what does that tell us about their level of comfort within the conservative bubble? i think a lot of these folks were worried for a while that they were going to be held to account within their own party.
right? that they were going to be ostracized. they have come to realize very quickly just the opposite. the person who quote, unquote, quarterbacked the attempted insurrection is now someone to celebrate, something to brag about, because you can see that the voters and that the republican politicians, with a small handful of exceptions, weren't going to do anything to hold them accountable. the question now is will the courts, and will the committee? the committee i think is doing their best. i am happy we have yet another criminal referral on the under once indicted and then pardoned steve bannon. i think obviously peter navarro has now put himself front and center. i think the important thing to take away from this beyond kind the what's next and we will wait and see what the committee and the courts do is that there are a lot of people out there as we head into 2022 and 2024 that are going to down play this, say
that this was the dog that caught the car, they didn't know what they were doing, all of a sudden they were in the capitol, there was no plan, don't use that word, coup. this was a plan. it was a dumb plan. but it was a plan. that had multiple levers that included the state legislatures, including the secretary of states, that including having their foot soldiers, their rivals outside the capitol. including having ted cruz on the inside and josh hawley who were going to extent the debate over all of this long enough to allow what was going on outside the capitol. it was not going to succeed but it was a real plan to stay in power using threats, violence, using multiple levers of government. and i think that peter navarro saying that out loud, you know s something that should be used to remind those, you know, who are going to want to down play this, you for example as we look ahead to the mid terms and next
election. >> i agree with tim on how this will be covered and perceived on the right, and the permission structure is real, and none of us living in fact-based america should ever underestimate its power, it's sort of mind altering and speech altering impact of peter navarro is exhibit a of that. but the fact remains that we have learned in the last seven days that the 1/6 committee is looking at two specific areas of crime. one is fraudulent -- wire fraud using the lie to raise money. and the other is this -- this obstruction of an official proceeding. not only did peter navarro confess to that one but he complicated this, quote, my role is to provide the receipts for the 100 congressmen or so who would make their cases who could rely in part on body of evidence i collected. he was in charge i guess of trade, peddles some disinformation on different frnts but he was going to finds
receipts that bill barr couldn't fine, chris krebs couldn't find. what was going on, eugene? >> that's a good question. it didn't exist. there were no receipts to be find, navarro or anybody else on the case. tim is right, what we are seeing here is a complete lack of remorse for what happened on that day. after the insurrection, the deaths on and connected with that day, after what was done to this country, the belief in the free and fair elections in this country. there is no remorse. revelations like his continue to reus january 6th wasn't just about that day, wasn't just about trump supporters looking around and saying they wanted to hang mike pence. they didn't come up with their plan on their own. they didn't come up with these ideas that the election was stolen on their own. trump loyalists are bound, the government, people in congress,
and steve bannon, right wing media spread the lies, and they were willing to extort the american people to do that. that's what is key to this heart of this conversation as to what the january 6th committee is doing. they are determining what happened before january 6th, between then and the election and what happened on that day so they can figure out the who, what, when, where and why so they can stop it from happening again. there is the belief in the lie, that the election was stolen, that joe biden wasn't elected in a free and fair election. but we know he was. chris krebs, people who looked into this, secretaries of state all over the country, republican secretaries of state signed off on this election saying it was one of the safest in our history. that's why we know that the january 6th committee has their hands full trying to tie all these things together because if
there is no political ramifications like tim said there is not going to be, then what are the legal ramifications. >> sick stuff. eugene and tim are sticking around. there is incredible new report about a right ring radio guy who is not so quietly building a media empire of his own with the reach he says that could help put donald trump back in power. is there a place in truth amid the noise of someone as incendiary as a guy named dan bongino. that is next. dan bongino. that is next
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one of the defeated ex-president's biggest cheerleaders is leveraging his audience in an attempt to catapult the ex-president back to office. he might be someone you've never heard of. maybe you have. right wing radio host, guy named dan bongino. a profile in "the new yorker" lays out his stunning rise, quote, no one in america media has profited more than than bongino. since 2015, he has gone from hosting a podcast in his basement to addressing audiences of millions. a watchdog group says quote, what scares me about him is that this guy could end up controlling or building the infrastructure that houses a whole range of extremism. i want to read this from the
reporting. it's a great piece. new yorker writes this, if january 6 made anything clear, it was that some number of americans will eventually abandon a distinction between rhetorical battle and the real thing. his business thrives in that border land. the realm of thinking where the best way to stay safe is to buy the shotguns he advertises on his show. tim? >> this is really scary stuff. i think that there's so much accountability in the mainstream media. there are a million watchdogs left and right watching everything you say on this program. if you make a mistake, you have to correct it. even in the more mainstream right, i think that a lot of your influential right folks will want you to think the right is represented by brett bair or sean hannity. they have audiences that far
eclipse more well-known people inside the belt way. his rhetoric is more extreme and dangerous. he's bidding his audience to combat. he's not shy of conspiracies. and just as a culture and a society, figuring out a way to break through these bubbles and people who are not watching mainstream cable news anymore, who are not watching the nightly news. it's not like the old days where walter cronkite could speak to them. figuring out other avenue news to speak to them is critical. i want to add to the last thing. i said their plan for a coup last time was dumb. it was and it wasn't likely to succeed. it was because joe biden won by a lot. if this was a close election and came down to florida and had marjorie taylor greene or one of dan's puppets been in there, it might have worked. this guy is chopping at the bit for that fight next time.
he's got a big audience. >> they've also installed so many of their people. softer doors to push on next time. i want to read one more piece from this great piece in "the new yorker." one of the people reading according to an analyst was ashley babbott. she was killed by police while trying to storm the capitol. in the last week of her life, she retweeted bongino at least 50 times. >> tim's right. this article, this great article lays out exactly what a lot of people who studied democracy and think about democracy are worried about is that after what happened, the different blueprints we've seen, there's another one for what folks can do in 2024 and most importantly, when it comes to the idea that these people had, they didn't create these on their own. they came from somewhere. and so all those folks who
stormed the capitol, these are people who have been listening for years. hearing different things and it kind of goes back to even when trump was running, taking him serious but not literally. we've known, a lot of us have known for years, people like trump and others, both serious and literally because the people listening are doing both. it's also concerning because what is the counter to that? that these things aren't true. they shouldn't storm the capitol. they shouldn't take up arms against the country. i've spoken to a lot of people sure you guys both have. what they always say is that these kinds of things build slowly. you start seeing it this way. and if you were told over and over that an election was stolen, that the person you
supported and loved lost and you believed that and someone told you and you believed them, what would you do? that's exactly what we saw on january 6th. that's the concern about what can move forward in the future especially as people like dan bongino and people like him continue to spread these lies and make money off of it. >> tim, you owe your fans on twitter an explanation for being so dressed up today. you have lots of compliments. >> i can't put on a jacket? >> i think you look great. >> it's new. >> you're breaking twitter. just thought i'd let you know. full service here. when we come back, the jury in the trial of ghislaine maxwell has reached a verdict. don't go anywhere. maxwell has reached vea rdict. don't go anywhere.
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struggling with pain, with dental disease. clearchoice dental implants solved her dental issues. [ kimberly ] i feel so much better. i feel energized to go outside and play with my daughter. i can ate anything. like, i don't have to worry. clearchoice changed my life. we have breaking news. the jury has reached a verdict in the sex trafficking trial of ghislaine maxwell. she is charged with recruiting teenagers to be sexually assaulted by jeffrey epstein. let's bring in ron allen. what do you know? >> reporter: we're waiting to hear exactly what this verdict is. we just got word that it's going to be read in court. we don't know exactly what it is. maxwell faces multiple, the most serious is child sex
trafficking, which carries a maximum sentence of potentially 40 years in prison. and this involves the use of an underage girl. all these cases date back to the 1994 to 2004 or so. there have been two and a half weeks or so of testimony. the jury has been deliberating on this matter now for almost 35 hours. this was the fifth full day of testimony and i keep glancing down to hear or to see when -- the jury is being brought into the courtroom as we speak. again, we don't know the details of all this. the indictment has six counts. they are three counts of conspiracy and three counts that involve abuse of minors. maxwell, we all know, was an associate of the late jeffrey
epstein. this case has been going on now for several weeks. there have been, there's been a lot of witness testimony. it all seems to hinge on the testimony of the women, they're now older women. young women who have been accusers who were underage, who have taken the stand and told very emotional testimony of how maxwell groomed them, lured them, and eventually led them to a place where epstein was abusing them. in one case, the youngest alleged victim said she was underage, said this began when she was 14 years old and that maxwell and epstein had abused her as many as 100 times. now, again, we're still trying to get something from the court as to exactly what the jury has decided. we don't know. again, there are six counts and she could be found guilty or not guilty on any or all of them.
and the jury has been deliberating again now for a very long time. there was some question about how much longer they were going to deliberate into the week. the judge said because of the covid concerns here in the city of new york and because of cases had reached astronomical numbers, the judge said, the jury was going to deliberate tomorrow, friday, and on into the new year's holiday if need be, but suddenly, now just in the last half hour or so, we have gotten word that there is a verdict that the judge is going to read any moment now. let me see what more i can find out. >> don't go away. i want to read the six charges. conspiracy to entice minors to travel to engage in illegal sex acts. enticing a minor to engage in illegal sex acts. conspiracy to transport minors with intent to engage in criminal sexual activity. transporting a minor with intent
to engage in criminal sexual activity. and two counts of perjury related to testimony she gave in 2016. i want to add to our conversation, if we have her, msnbc legal analyst, joyce vance, former u.s. attorney now professor at the university of alabama, school of law. joyce, based on, i mean the evidence was graphic. tom winter has been covering this as well for our network and i've read his tweets, which have detailed some of the really graphic and disturbing nature of the evidence that this jury has seen. based on what they have seen in terms of the evidence and the questions they had as they were deliberating, what sort of expectations, what are you looking to understand in terms of the decision they reached? >> well, the most important thing about this indictment going into the jury's verdict is to understand how complicated it is.
as thomas has said, there are six counts. three involve conspiracies. those are three different conspiracies. each with its own very complicated set of what prosecutors call over outs. the conduct of the conspiracy and evidence against miss maxwell. then there are specific charges and perhaps one of the most important things to understand although the jury doesn't focus on this in its deliberations is that these charges carry very different sentencing potential. for instance, for some of the basic conspiracies, only five years, but for one of the trafficking charges involving victim four, that could be life in prison. depending on whether this jury returns a verdict on all counts or some, the sentence here could be very hefty. >> she faces up to 70 years in prison if convicted on all six counts. weigh in on what ron allen is reporting, that because of
rising concerns about the omicron variant in new york city and if you live in new york city, you live under this constant fear and anxiety of the pandemic at this moment. the judge said that she would tell jurors that deliberations would continue as needed every day going forward including new year's eve, day, january 2nd, until there's a verdict in an effort to avoid a mistrial related to case spikes due to omicron. also requiring n-95 masks or high quality masks for everyone in the courthouse. an historic trial of historic importance. really taking place under i would imagine mostly unprecedented circumstances. >> so we'll definitely see this issue make an appearance when the case goes up on appeal if there are convictions, maxwell's lawyers will argue that the jury felt rushed to reach a verdict and that that played into the conviction unless they have some specific evidence though that indicates that the jurors felt
coerced or rushed. that sort of an argument won't go any place. as you say though, this is an enormously unusual context for a jury and i can't imagine the pressure and the stress they feel. i always have enormous admiration for the service that jurors provide. they walk away from their real lives. in this case, for weeks. and that doesn't mean that they're day-to-day concerns like earning a living or childcare or staying in touch with elderly relatives go away. so it really is an act of service to the republic. a way of affirming our belief in the rule of law and democracy and this jury's service goes above and beyond. >> let me ask the control room, do we have the verdict? joyce, i know you don't like to project any expectations, but just based on the final questions about i believe even today, this jury wanted, had more questions about the evidence. wanted to see evidence again.
it was tom winters' sense the evidence was so graphic -- do we have ron? do we have the verdict? so i'm going to read this to you, joyce. she -- she was found guilty on five counts. not guilty on one. count one, guilty, three, four, five, and six, not guilty on count two. does that surprise you based on what you know about the evidence and how long this jury deliberated? >> so with your permission, nicolle, i'll take a look at my little cheat sheet on the indictment which tells me count two was the enticement of victim one to travel. and there had been some suggestion that this case in large part would be, would turn on whether the jurors believed the victims. the defense tried to paint them out as people who had been willing participants and who were essentially participating
in this case in an effort to make money or bring intention to themselves. but it seems clear that the jury rejected that because they convicted, according to what we're hearing on the conspiracy count involving that victim, as well as on the other counts, this is an enormous victory for the government, but far more importantly than that, this is a verdict that signifies that girls who were trafficked, girls who were groomed, girls who are criminally subjected to sex in this sort of manner can achieve vindication in court that jurors will listen to their stories and that more people subjected to trafficking should feel confident that if they report what has happened to them to law enforcement, that they will be taken seriously and that their concerns will be heard. >> the ghislaine maxwell has been found guilty on five of the six charges.
conspiracy to transport minors with -- here they are. count three, conspiracy to transport a minor with intent to engage in criminal sexual activity. transporting a minor with the intent to engage in criminal sexual activity. and those two counts of perjury related to testimony. in 2016 as well as conspiracy to commit sex trafficking. of minors. joyce, i wonder if you can speak to whether this has further and farther reaching ramifications to sex trafficking prosecutions moving forward? >> these are such difficult cases to bring for so many reasons. for a long time, prosecutors were required to rely on a law called the man out more recently and the more serious counts of conviction we see in this indictment, statutes that specifically apply to trafficking of minors were put in place to make it, to give
prosecutors frankly more tools to use to go after these sorts of criminals. so what we can see here is that the law here is responsive to the needs to protect people against predators and traffickers. that there is the ability to reach back in time because typically in a federal case, there's a five-year statute of limitations. these charges of course are much older and that's because congress has aggregated that statute of limitations for crimes involving children and provided a much lengthier pullback that gives prosecutors the ability to charge these crimes after children who are victims come of age and are able to tell their stories and are more comfortable telling their stories. so this is certainly a victory in the individual case. this is some accountability for the victims in this case, but it sends a larger message about the willingness of the justice department to take on sex trafficking, which can be a tough crime for state
prosecutors to attack because by its very nature, it often involves interstate travel and that makes it difficult for a prosecutor in one state to go after all the aspects of these groups that are involved in it. it really requires federal involvement. these are difficult cases to bring. these prosecutors plowed through a lot of criticism early on in the case where there was a lot of criticism of their early witnesses as being unprepared or not compelling. so getting this verdict is a vindication for both these victims, but also for the larger work in this area of prosecuting trafficking. >> you know, some of the victims courageously spoke out in a few interviews. i wonder if you can speak to how a jury sort of perceives that testimony. again, it was graphic. upsetting. painful. jeffrey epstein, the sordid
nature of his abuse was covered by journalists nationally and locally for a long time. talk about what these witnesses went through and how sort of re-traumatizing it likely was for them. >> because society stigmatizes people who have been victims of trafficking just like victims in rape cases were stigmatized and still are to some extent for many years, these are some of the most difficult crimes for victims to take the stand and testify about. a lot the way the jury reacts, the tone is set by the judge. judges are very aware of that. and judges do a really good job, in my view, in the overwhelming majority of these case, of setting context for jurors. about the evidence they'll hear. about giving them a comfort level with handling it, but ultimately, it's up to the jurors themselves and it's something that's very affirming about our system of justice is
to see a jury handling a difficult situation. evidence that can be very traumatic. victims who are all too often being retraumatized when they're on the witness stand and being subject to both direct examination and also to cross-examination, and the ability to have juries to review the evidence, to follow the instructions about the law in a dispassionate way in these very difficult situations is something that has always affirmed to me that our system of justice really does work. we talk a lot about its imperfections and failures and the fact it's aspirational, but this is something we should feel good about. that these really difficult sorts of cases can be decided and handled by juries and these victims who my heart just goes out to as a prosecutor. every time you put a witness on the stand to testify to these sorts of very difficult facts, you understood that it came at a great cost to them and you often
had just remarkable appreciation of the emotional toll it took on them and their families but, this need to find justice to hold these particular defendants accountable and to create a generalized deterrent that prevents these crimes in the future as people become more aware of the likelihood of conviction and the lengthy sentences people involved in these crimes face, this is such an important accomplishment. >> stay with us. i want to add to our coverage, nbc news correspondent, tom winter. he was inside the courthouse when the verdict was read. "the new york times" is describing this as the courtroom reckoning epstein never had because he was found dead. your reaction to that and what you just saw. >> a manhattan jail that has now emptied out. there are no prisoners insideover it. just one of another marker of how much has changed. as you said, ghislaine maxwell has been found guilty of five of
six counts by a federal jury of 12. behind me moments ago, the jurors delivering the verdict. the foreperson, who we don't have our identity, but it is a woman who's the foreperson, finding her guilty of all counts except for two, which is the enticement of an individual under the age of 17, referring to the victim identified only by a pseudonym as jane to travel with the intent to engage in illegal sexual activity. that was the only not guilty count. that's count two. but most important as far as ghislaine maxwell's future, having turned 60 several days ago on christmas day, is that she was convicted of count six, sex trafficking of an individual under the age of 18. that's tied to the victim identified at carolyn. for her future's sake, that count carries a maximum penalty of 40 years in prison. even if she was only to receive half of it, that would mean she would be in jail until she was at least 80 years old.
somebody who had significant health concerns. as a matter of fact, her attorney addressed that. once the jury was dismissed, asking the judge to see if maxwell could get a booster shot while she remains in custody. she will not be released pending the conclusion of this trial. she has been held in custody since she was taken into custody by the fbi in a new hampshire home where she was hiding out to use prosecutors words, for several months back in june of 2020. excuse me, july of 2020. at the time, federal prosecutor said in court documents they thought maxwell was trying to intentionally hide while she was at that home. when she was taken into custody, they found her cell phone wrapped in tinfoil. it's been quite a journey for maxwell, as a person who was described as not only the right hand man of jeffrey epstein, but somebody who worked hand in hand with him in trying to find these
girls to satisfy his sexual needs, which at one point, three massages a day, which turned sexual and involved underage girls. the jury here with a complete reputeuation of the defense's arguments that these women could not be believed, that they were in this for money, that's the reason why they came forward. pretty quick verdict as it was read in court and a trial and saga that's been several decades in the making appearing now to have concluded. >> tom, you have described for your followers and in your reports on this, the evidence as just incredibly graphic. that the case of the prosecution presented was, the nothing else compelling in its specificity and nature. can you talk about what you saw in the evidence of her crimes? >> so not only did you have the victims in this case that spoke, four of them, but you had various family members or those
that knew them at the time. perhaps ex-boyfriends in several instances that could corroborate statements they made either at the time of this or shortly after the alleged abuse or incidents took place. but perhaps several years later when epstein would come up in conversations tied to news reports. so that was something that the jury heard. the jury was able to see the actual massage table from the florida home. the palm beach mansion that has been so talked about over the years, belonging to epstein, where a lot of these sexual incidents took place. on top of that, they were also able to see a number of photographs that really detailed how close maxwell and epstein were. we saw maxwell giving a massage to epstein's foot on a plane in a state of some undress. we saw the two of them traveling all over the world appearing to be potentially in rome or italy. we saw pictures of the private jet. we were able to see the decor, not only of epstein's florida
home, which we had seen before thanks to public images and videos that had been released, but for the first time, we were taken inside when the jury was taken inside the upper east side mansion that epstein had at the time of his death that they say where a lot of this abuse occurred over the years. so they were able to see that. i think a couple of other things that were potentially important were the flight logs over the years and civil litigation, we had seen those come out that mentioned famous actors, two former presidents and former president bill clinton and donald trump as passengers on those jets, but we were able to see even more of those records as a result of this trial. they heard from the two men at the front of the plane flying it. talked about what they saw, what they didn't see. they were flying the plane, they were not in the back where epstein and maxwell were. they were also able to hear from the fbi case agent and able to get other information as far as what they found in the searches
of epstein's home. in totality, there was probably a significant amount of evidence that led jurors to the conclusion they came to today including fedex receipts that somehow fedex still had and the jurors were able to see which helped prove some of the counts, or at least some of the underlying conduct, nicolle, that tied epstein to this idea of interstate commerce. that's one of the things that allowed them to charge this case federally and to involve federal prosecutors here in new york. that he would send packages to these girls. they also heard how epstein would take some of these girls as young as 14 years old, to shopping. in one instance, to victoria's secret, to buy underwear. it's difficult for the jury to get over the fact that why was epstein and maxwell, if they weren't doing anything wrong, why were they hanging out with these teenage girls, buying them clothes and underwear? >> it's really jarring.
i wonder if you can speak to what the final requests for from this jury. i believe even today, a request to see more evidence. you followed this closely. i've queried you about it when i've seen you at the halls at 30 rock. were there any surprises for you as someone who's followed this so closely? >> you know, a lot of people like to look at jury notes and see if there's any tea leaves. i think over the years, you can look at jury notes the same way you can look at any piece of paper. on either side. i think people looked today and thought, oh, man, this case could be coming to conclusion next year and we could be going past the new year before we hear from this jury. when you looked at the notes today, they started to signal they were pushing towards the carolyn counts, the count six, when they asked for her former boyfriend's testimony and they were starting to get into defense witnesses and some of the last prosecution witnesses. so that may have been a sign that they were coming to the end of it.
you know, i've gone gavel to gavel from the beginning of the trial to the end of the trial on numerous high profile cases over the years. sometimes juries ask for a lot to be read back to them. other times they essentially go it alone on their own notes and memories and the exhibits they're handed, but i think with some complicated testimony, the cross-examination that occurred, the pressing of the memories of some of these victims, it's not surprising to me that i think they asked for so many transcripts and in the end, they were able to get a verdict. i think most importantly, and certainly judge nathan's biggest concern was that they were able to get to this verdict before they had a coronavirus incident interrupt this proceeding. whether it be one of the attorneys, maxwell herself or one of the jurors that would be testing positive for this and that we would get to a point that because of a quarantine or delays or illness, a mistrial
would have to be declared. they were able to reach a unanimous verdict so i think from the court's perspective, this was a success just in the fact the trial was able to be held and not be interrupted by this virus. >> when i saw this was going to break at the top of the hour, i said i hope tom is there and you were and i'm so grateful for you spending time with us on this breaking news. joyce vance, you, too. thank you so much for steering our coverage this hour. ghislaine maxwell found guilty on five of the six charges. when we come back, back to the news as it was before this news broke. remembering huge american icon, legendary football coach, and broadcaster, john madden. plus, one of the big fears we're hearing from medical experts as covid says soar is that hospitals will be too full to help treat other non-covid related patients and injuries. we have a heartbreaking story from iowa that underscores that growing concern later in the
program. deadline white house continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere today. after a quicbrk eak. don't go anywhere today. favorits is qunol turmeric. turmeric helps with healthy joints and inflammation support. unlike regular turmeric supplements qunol's superior absorption helps me get the full benefits of turmeric. the brand i trust is qunol. ♪ ♪ ♪
you know there's a saying that the criteria for greatness and being the best in what you do or ever done is can the history of what you did be written without mentioning your name? >> he just clubbed him. if you want to be a nose tackle in life, that's the way to play it. if you give him a lane in there, a pass rush lane, he'll take it. you see that hole right there? he sees it and knows that he can get all the way to the goal line with it.
see that heat coming out the top of your head? you could have a barbecue on that head. >> can i go for a nice, cold beer from miller. >> john, how many times have i told you, use the door, huh? >> i forgot, i'm sorry. >> i just say this, i thank you all very much and this has been the sweetest ride of them all. thank you. >> cultural icon does not begin to describe him. this is not just a football story. for millions upon millions of americans from all walks of life. generation after generation after generation, john madden was football. maybe you knew him as a hall of fame super bowl winning coach of the oakland raiders back in the '60s and '70s, the one who never had a losing season. if you were born after that and a fan after that, perhaps you remember him, the beating heart
in the broadcast booth. or maybe you know the name. madden. on the covers of a multibillion dollar video game franchise. whatever your connection to john madden, four in five americans know his name. the point remains his popularity across race, class, age, political affiliation, you name it, was and is a mighty rare thing. especially in an era we live in today of such bigger division. by now, you've likely heard the sad news. he died last night unexpectedly at the age of 85. in the hours since, internet and air waves have nearly burst with words of praise shared with the world in multitudes. jerry jones said this, quote, this is a loss as big as the legendary that -- the legacy that john madden created, a legacy of love, love for family and football and for life. raiders radio broadcaster said this, madden's ability to deal with humans on their level and
his level was outstanding. our nbc colleague shared his reflections this morning on the "today" show on his one-time partner in the broadcast booth. >> it was a great naturalness to him. this wasn't trying to play announcer or analyst or somebody on television. this was john. what you saw is what you got and that was john away from the booth as well as in the booth. so he didn't have to put a different persona. and people can understand that and he loved the game like nobody has ever loved the game of football and you knew it. he was excited and excitable and people just gravitated to him and i don't think there will ever be anybody like that in the history of broadcasting as far as i'm concerned. >> return to the question john madden asked in a eulogy for his partner, can the history of football be told without mentioning the name john madden?
the answer is to most people, easy and unequivocal no. let's bring in nbc's sports peter king and mark is back with us. new york times chief national correspondent. peter, so i'm from the bay area. my family, we were raiders fans, so john madden was you know, at the dinner table with us and raiders fans chased his legacy forever and still. we knew he didn't fly. took a bus. you took one of those rides with him. the longest ride i think he took. talk about it. >> in 1990, i was working for sports illustrated, i convinced john and his agent to let me take the bus ride from pleasonton, california, to manhattan where he was a friendly neighbor with the yoko ohno. i was on the bus with him for 3100 miles and what really
struck me as we watched videotape late at night one night, it was about 1:30 in the morning, we were in the middle of wyoming and what really struck me is how much this man loved his job and how interested he was in the intrakwasis of football. but it wasn't only that. i believe quite literally john madden is a guy who should be remembered because he retired at the age of 42. i mean, bill belichick has coached 29 years after the age of 42. and john madden retired at 42. and he literally stopped and smelled the flowers. on that trip, we stopped by the side of the highway, by the side of i-80 in nebraska and it was a beautiful october day. and he looked out, he said, stop. so he picked out a book out of his, out of a drawer in the bus.
he saw these beautiful red wild flowers on the side of the road. and he picked out a book called wild flowers across america and he said i want to go see what those flowers are. he stood outside for ten minutes, looked it up, finally found it and on that day was his moment of great triumph. so he really liked all of life. not just football. >> for people who may be aren't football fans and we were going to start with this story, talk about why he matters and matters so much now. >> because he probably, when he retired from football at age 42, he had done enough at that point in his chosen profession to be elected to the pro football hall of fame after only coaching ten years. you know, only lost 32 games in ten years, so clearly, he was a tran senn dent coach. the next two things he did in life he really was better at.
you know? he was the best broadcaster probably color analyst of all time in any sport. number one. and then he lent his name and expertise and his business sense and also the football part of it to the madden video game, which is one of the most popular video games in the history of the planet. it's grossed over $7 billion. so imagine you leave your chosen profession and in your second and third lives, you're better at those two things. to me, nicolle, he is the most influential person about pro football in the history of our country. >> and mark, if you do what we do, if you communicate on television, there are so many lessons from how he did that. and one of the most important people to ever work at this network was connected to him in a way that tom brokaw writes about. i want to read that to you.
this is a tribute to tim russet written by brokaw. madden and russert shared a talent for describing the complexities of their fields in ways that even the casual viewer could understand. as tim's son put it, when john madden described the wish bone offense, even the non-football fan would get it. it was like my dad explaining the electoral college. it was what was likely to happen punctuated with his enthusias expressions morphed into tim's use of the white board to spell out florida, florida, florida. tim had a special appreciation of madden's powers of observation like his admonition to hotel guests not to sleep on the side of the bed where the telephone is located because the mattress is likely to sag.
those talents, those gifts certainly transcend his chosen field. mark. >> well, i mean, i think you see the nature of enthusiasm. whether you're in an entertainment empire like the nfl or the news business. i think the thing that john madden did is he just did it with his full soul and his whole heart and it was, he really, he transcended to so many of the divides in this country. it's very hard to think of a single figure who not only crossed different cultural realms, it's hard to find anyone anywhere who doesn't have a nice thing to say about him. not just because he happened to die 24 hours ago. really because this is a figure who just crossed so many boundaries and there are so few people in this day and age who are just so universally beloved across so many sectors. so look, john madden was a true
original. we talked a lot about people, harry reid earlier in the show, who are just true originals and who are truly american in some ways and i think there's something really special about that. you know, especially when you sort of come to an end of a century or come to the beginning of a new century, come to the end of a year where things seem divided and serious and as much of a debbie downer as ever. john madden will be sorely missed and i think a number of people would say the same. >> mark, you are today on tribute duty. you were at the last hour, talking about harry reid. your book about the nfl points out the good, the bad, and the ugly with the league. what impact did john madden have on it and what do you see in terms of what they're grappling with today? >> john madden was only a net plus for the nfl. you can't find anyone you know, in the players, you know, among
tv, the market, just in the nfl offices, the ownership, who would have a bad word to say about him. he brought so much joy to so many fans. so many video game players. and also the players who played for him on the raiders swore by him. he was very much a player's coach, but he managed up very well. davis was not picnic to work for. he was someone whose humanity really shown through in all directions. i think if they were 32 john madden coaches in the nfl and broadcasters across many networks and you know, just entertainers but also authentic figures in the nfl, it would be a lot healthier league right now and i think it would be you know, just in a much happier place. >> peter, your reporting sort of gets to where his optimism came from. it wasn't, it was how he saw his country, his fellow americans. i'm going to read from some of
your reporting from the coast to coast ride. this is from november 26th, 1990. you wrote this. he reflected on the trip and the country he had crossed, quote, i think we're in pretty good shape, he said. the thing that's always amazed me is how it works. people who live on farms don't want to live in big cities. if everyone wanted the same thing or wanted to live in same place, the thing would never work. there are people who are as happy as hell living in nebraska. people happy as hell living in the middle of nowhere. people are nice. you go to a big city and you hear the world is going to hell, it's not true. small parts of it are. it all isn't. hey, all we have to do is spread out a little bit because we have a lot of space. you get out there and it makes you feel better about america. the thing works. do you think he remained that optimistic for the rest of his life after he made those comments to you, peter? >> definitely did. he had no interest in politics. he did not understand that era,
that area of life. and i, you know, one memory i have, a vivid, vivid memory of that trip, that grandpa's steak house that we were walking out of, when he made those comments, i had to rush back on to the bus and say you got to say that again. it's perfect because we walked out of that restaurant and he said two or three times, he said isn't it amazing how this all works? he said, you and i might not want to live in carney, nebraska, but look at our waitress tonight. she was so happy. you know, and she likes her life and the guy who owns this place, i'm friendly with. and like, you know, he just saw that there's a place in this country for everybody. and that's one of the reasons why right now, i think it's so frustrating for a lot of people who are optimists. okay, you know, there's a lot of people we don't agree with and i
disagree with the whole concept of flyover country and he did, too, but he made this point over and over again. he kept saying to me, people need to see this. >> yeah. >> people need to see america. and i think that was one of the big things i wanted to get across in that story. >> it's a great story. i spent a lot of time on a bus in my time in politics and it's so true. when you work on a campaign, you're obviously on one side or the other, but the people you meet may not always be on your side, but it isn't experienced that way when you're out there and traveling like that. another thing about him was he was very, very funny. i want to play some of his, and i have to say, i ate a turducken once because of him. let me show this. >> you notice, pat, troy aikman's trying to grow a beard and he just can't do it. blond haired guys, a lot of them have trouble. you got a little in here, a
little up there, but he doesn't have anything here at all. watch, when you take it off, he doesn't have anything going up in there. there's always been like a mother and father. like this is the father bucket. this is the mother bucket. and since the last game, they had a baby bucket. so this is the baby bucket. so they got three now. there had always been two. one's going to go to parcel. another to another assistant an the other will go to another player later in the game. >> turducken. >> you see you cut it like right down here. see and this is what it looks like inside. >> oh. >> turducken, i do not endorse. there's not enough of this really anywhere. football isn't as funny as he was and frankly neither is what either of us do. the simple and good, decent nature of his humor was also a big part of his appeal.
>> there are young football fans across america today who probably learned the birds and the bees from the little lecture on the buckets. how reproduction works and parcells gets one and another assistant gets one. the guy was fun. he was hilarious. laughter can transcend a lot of divides and john madden was a great example of that. >> peter, mark, i know there are other big headlines in the news. we've got a pandemic to deal with, but i really appreciate both of you taking the time to remember john madden. i'm grateful to both of you. thank you. >> thanks, nicolle. when we come back, the skyrocketing rise in covid cases leading medical experts to sound the alarm that hospitals will not be able to treat non-covid patients. tragic new reporting on exactly that happening already. after a quick break for us,
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a person's decision not to get vaccinated against covid-19 puts that person's life at risk, but not only that person's life, it puts the lives of all of the rest of us at risk as well. as we all know now, unvaccinated people make up the largest majority of those hospitalized with covid and as they overwhelm
hospitals from coast to coast, even more so now with omicron surging, those people are using resources that others perhaps dealing with non-covid related health emergencies need. we're already seeing that thousand. just recently, a man named dale weeks sick was unable to be treated because there were no open beds. he was finally transferred after waiting 15 days, but his condition had worsened so much that he died of complications after surgery. "washington post" reports quote, the family believes their father was the latest victim of the pandemic and that he would have survived his diagnosis if he was immediately admitted to a larger medical center that had an open bed. his daughter told "the washington post" this, quote, the thing that bothers me the most is people's self-irk decision not to get vaccinated
and the failure to see how this avgts a greater group of people. joining our conversation, shack brewster in chicago, and dr. blackstock, founder and ceo of advancing health equity. dr. bl. people have thought of this as an abstract, something that may happen in the future, the idea of rationing care. but i imagine doctors are making decisions every moment of every day. you have a crisis, an accident, someone needing surgery. and the beds you have are the beds you have, the doctors you have are the doctors you have. tell me what is happening right now. >> we're seeing the domino effect of what happens when hospitals are at and over capacity. i think people don't recognize that even people who are
vaccinated are impacted by this. we have a fixed number of health care providers, a fixed amount of oxygen, of ventilators. when those are used up, and other critical patients come in, they will not be able to get or receive competent care. i wrote a piece in "the washington post" earlier this year, about my own child who was in the pediatric icu a few years ago, and what would have happened if they were not able to receive the care they deserve because the hospital was at capacity. this domino effect impacts numerous patients, whether covid or non-covid related. >> are there guidelines or ethics that help determine this? because parents are angry that
doctors are care is not available because people made the choice not to get vaccinated. >> right. so there are scarce allocation protocols that people and providers use in hospitals. it can vary hospital to hospital, and there are ethics counselors, but it includes the age of the patient, the co-morbidities, are they likely to survive? obviously, this is the last resort, having to use that kind of criteria, when there are scarce resources. we've seen this before in the pandemic, and we're seeing it again. even though the omicron variant seems to treat milder disease, just because of the sheer number of hospitalizations of patients,
we're going to see these protocols be reinstituted once again. >> so, what is the picture in hospitals in chicago and around the country right now? >> reporter: well, you definitely see that dire situation, hospitals continuing to fill up. and you have that capacity continuing to grow. we heard from local leaders today. one of the things they're focused on is the spread they're seeing in this community. the mayor mentioned the fact that the positivity rate in chicago, for example, is about 16%. last week, it was 8%. the week before that, it was 4%. they're saying they're seeing cases at a rate they have not seen in the entire pandemic. that's the concern, and the anxiety you have when you look at the return of students to classrooms in just about a week or so, less than a week, in a matter of days. that's why you have many parents
expressing concern. we're at a testing site right now, you have a line of people waiting to get that test. chicago public schools sending out more than 150,000 at-home test kits for students, telling them to get tested at home, and ship it back by tomorrow. but we also know about the testing concerns and the testing crunch in the city. i mentioned the 150,000 test kits going out to students. this district has about 300,000 students. that gives you a sense of the testing struggles. although there are good intentions, there are a lot of hurdles. >> the head of the fda and the head of the cdc said there are a chance some tests may not pick up the omicron variant. why are we not talking about vaccine mandates for students in schools? >> reporter: that's a great
question. one thing that chicago is implementing, they said the vaccine mandate is chicago is still onboard to go in effect on january 3rd. they're going to have restaurants, bars, gyms, not only checking vaccine cards, but also checking the i.d. along with the vaccine cards, and having other officers go out and enforce that, other health officials go out and make sure these businesses are enforcing the mandate. that's a bigger question than what you can do with students. one thing we also saw yesterday, our data team crunched the federal data numbers, and in terms of hospitalizations, we're seeing a rise in hospitalizations, which is somewhat expected with the rise in cases. but the rate of increase among pediatric patients, among kids, is almost double that of adults. that adds to the anxiety for so many parents, with the return to school and with the spread that looks uncontrollable.
epstein's associate, ghislaine maxwell, found guilty of sex trafficking. plus, sharon stone on "the beat," tonight by the end of the hour. we begin with the mounting coronavirus. the united states has seen more cases this week than ever before. a record seven-day average now of 265,000 daily cases. the cdc is under fire for how it's announce this shorter isolation guidelines. it's down to five days. the cdc director is out talking to a lot of different folks, five networks and counting, to defend how they rolled this out. >> the most transmission happens in the first one to two days after you have symptoms, then the next five days after you have symptoms. >> they may very well not