tv The Beat With Ari Melber MSNBC January 4, 2022 3:00pm-4:00pm PST
officials and reportedly talking to trump himself about what hannity viewed as the problem coming straight to america and the trump administration on january 6th. if that sounds different than what sean hannity sometimes has said in public, that's because it is. now, this is brand new stuff, in fact, as we do sometimes around here, we like the documents. we have them. they're interesting. let me give you some highlights before i bring in our experts. on the eve of the insurrection, hannity wrote, i'm very worried about the next 48 hours. this to a top trump white house official as he was trying to get to trump. the question is why was hannity so worried? the panel also revealing new conversations that hannity reportedly had with then president trump himself because hannity texted mark meadows and jim jordan. this is a week before trump left office saying, guys, we have a clear path to land the plane in nine days. he, presumably donald trump, can't mention the election again ever. i did not have a good call with
him today. so what we're seeing here is basically two things at once. let me explain to you exactly what we think is happening. one, we have a letter that formally asks for sean hannity's cooperation. now, it says voluntary because he is a member of an organization that defines itself as a news organization, and it is very tricky to try to get compulsory cooperation from anyone inside any news organization. so they've said voluntary. they talk about the first amendment in here. we can get to that. but number two, that might be the law over here. the news over here is in making this request you have congress basically blowing the whistle and revealing the type of text you almost never see, certainly not in realtime, between someone who claims to be a journalist but also gives a lot of advice as you can see from the text. he seems to be acting like kind of a shadow quarterback, lobbying top officials, talking to the president, telling him what to do. and what's interesting about
that and goes towards a problem for trump is it seems that sean hannity thought that all the talk of overthrowing the election or staging any type of violent rally is a bad thing. this is a remarkable development and it was a few weeks after one of the top officials on the committee liz cheney first revealed that hannity and other fox anchors were sending these kind of texts to the white house before and during the riot. >> multiple fox news hosts knew the president needed to act immediately. they texted mr. meadows, and he has turned over those texts. can he make a statement? ask people to leave the capitol, sean hannity urged. >> that we are now learning for the first time tonight was just part of the trove. what's in here is important as evidence. evidence doesn't have an opinion. evidence doesn't have a bias. evidence is the actual reliable
information in an investigation that taken together with other information can help fact finders, in this case congress or in other cases the prosecutors try to figure out what the hell went down, and what this evidence appears to suggest is that the people who supported donald trump the most and the most vocally and the most in public were privately very worried because they thought he was being fed a pack of lies and pushed towards illegal activities including a potential insurrection, which we know is what occurred. i want to bring in our experts on a breaking story because we're all trying to make sense of it together. we're doing this together. i have "the new york times" michelle goldberg, eric buller who follows fox news very closely and the editor of pressrun.media and cornell belcher. michelle, i understand the kind of jump in the media and on the internet to always say, well, didn't we know some of this? okay, so what? i'm curious, though, with an eye on the evidence what you think about the fact that the congress
eastman. we've seen the memos from other people who have this kind of quasi legal or at least bureaucratic strategy to go along with the insurrectionary strategy. they thought if they could delay the counting of the vote, there was something they were going to accomplish with regards to the actual counting of the votes and certification of it. but he's clearly worried that trump is going to ask the white house counsel's office to do something that is going to cause them all to resign, and so what is that? that's something we need to know. you know, at another point as he mentioned, he says i'm very worried about the next 48 hours. why? what does he think is going to happen, right? this isn't just that he was appalled by the -- privately appalled by the insurrection, even though he's never blamed trump for it publicly, it's that he had some intimation that something menacing was coming down the pike. >> very well put and appreciate
your take on it. as i said, we're making sense of it as we got it. eric, you watch more fox news and have monitored sean hannity's work and impact more than most people including his loyal viewers. what do you see specifically here in the relationship between someone who obviously has the benefit of a media tv career but is texting with the bravado and the quarterback power to rival almost anyone i've seen in any white house, cornell can speak to this because he's worked around government officials. this guy doesn't sound like a reporter. he doesn't sound like a random donor. he sounds like he works every lever and knows exactly what michelle just said, that if they go too far breaking the law, they could have another nixon style mass resignation. >> yeah, the beauty i think -- what i love is the january 6th commission is going to drag fox news at every opportunity it has. i hope it happens all year because it's very revealing, and to your point, look, there was
an old tradition if you go back to fdr and jfk, washington columnists had the ear of the president off the record. they kind of worked as ad hoc advisers. what hannity's doing is much different. when you get entangled in a criminal enterprise, which is what the trump white house was in engaged in in terms of trying to stop congress from certifying a legal election, then all bets are off, and you know, the joke was that sean hannity was really trump's fifth chief of staff over the years, and he did that just through television. trump is so obsessed with watching cable tv that he would much rather take his daily advice from someone at 9:00 at night or 8:00 at night or whatever. in terms of hannity being a journalist, you know, and he gets protections, i suppose he does as kind of a joke. i mean, he's a journalist the way alex jones is a journalist, the way rush limbaugh was a journalist. just because you get behind a microphone and spread lies, it
shouldn't give you any protection. this is embarrassing for fox news, not that they have any shame -- but this puts them right in the middle of everything -- >> let me cut in on that -- >> it's embarrassing because they're a propaganda arm. >> let me cut in on that. i'll let you continue. i like to give everyone all the facts and this is new stuff. the letter came out moments before we came on air. your view is he's not much of a journalist. as for what the congress is doing, had they're not taking that position just to be clear. they are saying that they have, quote, immense respect -- i'm just going to read this so viewers can hear them as well as you. the congress says in this committee they have immense respect for the first amendment, freedom of the press and the rights of americans to express their political opinions openly, and they say for that reason we don't intend to seek information from you regarding your broadcast or radio tv or your public reporting or your political views, and then they go on to say they have an investigation -- obligation to find the facts, so my point here for viewers to understand and then you can continue including you're welcome to criticize whoever you want, free speech
goes both ways, but the congress isn't saying hannity is a lesser reporter and thus has to comply. they're saying that they believe he has information that's germane, and they want him to voluntarily provide it. >> yeah, i think it's a smart move. if they try to subpoena him, it's a dead end. you're not going to subpoena a journalist, i think it was a smart pr move saying hey, just come forward and we're going to spill all of this information via the text. i said when the first text came out weeks ago, anyone who thinks these three texts from hannity, ingraham and the others from fox news, there were many and the back and forth was nonstop and now we get a better view. yes, we kind of knew fox news was a propaganda arm, but wow, hannity's literally planning or warning about the insurrection in realtime. >> cornell. >> for me ari, how is this going to land with the voters? there's a lot of information out
here and we keep getting breaking news, and a lot of different -- a lot of smoke, right, to piece this together, and there was a lot of pulling out there, which shows, you know, that's it's a real partisan split on what happened on january 6th. you know, my question is, you know, does more of this come out that, quite frank areally implicates so many different people not only in the white house but in the media knew that there was a plan, and they were all in on a plan around january 6th. they were all in on a plan quite frankly to to try to overthrow the unlawful election. you know, does this begin to have more weight among voters? right now it seems that many voters are like, eh, i don't know what's happening here, but i think as more and more of his evidence comes out and more and more people are implicated, do americans really start paying more attention, and do americans really weigh this in their
consideration for voting in the next round of midterms? >> michelle, the other thing i'm curious about your interpretation is when hannity says, again, in these newly leaked texts from the government, quote, trump can't mention the election again ever. what's he getting at there? >> well, i think he's getting at that he wants trump to stop talking about a stolen election and you know, he wants some sort of a -- when he talks about landing the plane, he's talking about a peaceful transition of power. i think at that point they were a little bit worried about him getting either impeached or removed via the 25th amendment. again, what i think it shows is that despite what hannity says on television, he understood that the election was legitimate and that trump lost it, right? and if he really believed the election was stoln from trump, he wouldn't be telling him to never speak of it again.
sean hannity is a propagandist. there's something so striking in the gap between what he says privately and publicly, and just the journalistic failure of having that kind of scoop, of understanding that the president of the united states is preparing to do something illegal to subvert the election and not telling your audience about it, you know, it's such a sort of betrayal of his role, even if it's a role that we all believe he doesn't take very seriously. >> that's such an incisive point you make, and it dove tails with, again, it's one of these nights we're getting a lot of news, i'm just told in my ear the producers that donald trump was planning this big news conference at mar-a-lago on january 6th trying to seize attention or time or whatever. the news breaking just now as we're on the air that he is canceling that. an ex-president and politician
who has sought many ways to seek attention from his blogs to his press appearances backing down, apparently, or canceling that. that's brand new. before we go, i do want to play one piece of sound that speaks to exactly the point michelle goldberg was just reminding us, that on the one hand sean hannity appears to be the, quote, concerned or worried person in the room about the next 48 hours. that's what he said, and the committee investigators view that credibly. at night and on air he kept trying to distance what happened at the capitol from trump and from the trump movement even as his texts showed he was very much aware that it was what donald trump appeared to want. that's what he seemed to be quote, worried about. here's a little bit of sean hannity on air. >> people who acted violently today, they don't represent the millions of law-abiding hardworking tax paying citizens responsible american patriots that are worried about election
person who he thought could call the shots, donald trump, to get those people, those trump supporters summoned by trump to stop the violence. that's perhaps a coda on this story that will keep going. i want to thank michelle and eric for kicking us off. cornell comes back. later tonight we actually have and we didn't plan it this way, i have an interview with a potential key witness in that probe who knows a lot about the trump era, and covid breaking new records, president biden says they have more they can do, and there is a way out. we also have an obama insider on joe biden's hopes for the new power play against mcconnell. apparently liberals winning this tactical question as schumer wants to end part of the filibuster. filibuster
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throughout the next 10. through projectup, comcast is committing $1 billion so millions more students, past... and present, can continue to get the tools they need to build a future of unlimited possibilities. congress is back at work, our top story tonight was news coming out of the democratic investigations out of that bipartisan committee that nancy pelosi organized, but the other big story today is what the democrats are trying to do legislatively vowing formal action on voting rights. mitch mcconnell has his obstruction strategy denying basically what everyone can see. trump loyalists trying to get control over election posts at the state level. that's a big issue when it comes to the next election, and january 6th which we've discussed, you have republicans in congress voting against certifying the election and trying to somehow use that to seize power.
now, today the reason i'm mentioning this is that as chuck schumer talks about potentially taking away mitch mcconnell's obstruction filibuster powers mcconnell responds by denying this is all happening, and that's the reason he says you don't need reform. >> why would any legislator, any legislature in america want to overturn the counting of votes? the notion that some state legislature would be crazy enough to say to their own voters we're not going to honor the results of the election is ridiculous on its face. >> what do you do with that? i guess if you just apply it to recent history, then the republican party's entire reaction to 2020 was, quote, ridiculous. again, according to the republican leader. democrats view mcconnell as someone who can't be trusted anyway. liberals have been urging the democratic leaders to play more hardball and, again, up through
the end of last year schumer and others were not willing to do that. they talked about the idea, but what's different this week, what's new tonight is that schumer is pushing a plan this month to gut some of the filibuster rules that give mcconnell his obstruction powers. >> let's be really clear, our democracy is imperilled, and time is running out. >> if republicans continue to hijack the rules of the chamber to prevent action on something as critical as protecting our democracy, then the senate will debate and consider changes to the rules on or before january 17th, martin luther king day. >> on or before mlk day, that's within two weeks, and the connection is deliberate. dr. martin luther king was never in congress. he was not what we call a lawmaker, and yet, he was as a matter of factual and legal
history, one of the most influential maker of laws in the modern era. it was his work that led to the original voting rights act, and the civil rights act. and after his passing, housing the rights act that he advocated later passed. that's a lot of laws. you can actually see mlk with lbj, we just had that up there because the president recognized him as one of the people who was a lawmaker in that sense. so all of this comes together. it is not coincidence. it's not symbolism. it's the reality of democrats deciding they are going to actually force the hand and try to change these senate rules. now, they need all 50 senators. the holdouts on most issues, sinema and manchin have not yet embraced this. as one former senator told us recently on this program, schumer wouldn't go this far unless he had some kind of plan. does he? where does he go next? our special guest an obama veteran in 60 seconds.
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obama pollster cornell belcher is back. nice to see you again, sir. >> happy new year. >> happy new year. we had you at the top of the show on that breaking news. this is another big story that i will say, at least on this broadcast, would be the top story if not for that if you change these senate rules. i mentioned that martin luther king was a lawmaker in the most literal sense of the term. that's why lbj had him up there. that's why chuck schumer makes this connection to voting rights, something that mlk helped get into federal law. your view of where this issue heads with changing the filibuster. >> i think it's a critical issue. i think it's critical on a couple of different fronts. one is, ari, i've been really frustrated over the last couple of months because i think there is a -- there's still a cohort of democratic strategists who have not seen voting rights as necessarily a broadly sort of
out front winning issue broadly for democrats going into the midterms, and i sort of have been arguing i think that's problematic. if you look at the new "usa today" polling out shows that over 80% of americans are actually worried about democracy. senator warnock is right that democracy's in peril, and americans overwhelmingly feel worried about democracy. so i think there is now some political traction there broadly. but also when you talk about sort of base mobilization, and looks, we've talked about this before. you know, those young people that democrats need to turn out who turned out in 2020 and flipped states for democrats, you know, we talked about before, ari, they're not marching for bridges and roads, right? they're marching for justice and equality, and voting rights is absolutely a mobilizing issue for them. so i think democrats have to a certain extent i like what
schumer's doing. they're coming to their senses and pivoting to not only an issue that democrats can move to mobilize younger voters and voters of color who they desperately need to turn out in the midterms elections, but also more importantly i think if democrats message this right, i think they can connect this to the middle of the electorate as well as a bigger issue, right? go bigger and more values based issue around, quite frankly, the health and well-being of our democracy at stake. and put democrats on one side and republicans on the other. >> and let me play you manchin today. take a look. >> it's a very, very difficult, it's a heavy lift. anytime there's a carveout, you need to hold turkey. there's nothing left. >> you've said and it seems like you're saying this again, you would not be open to changing the rules without republican buy-in in some shape? >> that's my absolute preference. >> preference different than red
line? >> that's my preference. >> translation, preference is not no. chuck schumer's got to get him to yes by mlk day. >> i think not only does chuck schumer have to, but i think this is also an opportunity where if you look at inside the president's numbers again, look at the "usa today" poll, a lot of what sort of the wet blanket hanging over biden's overall approval numbers has to do with them taking action and being a strong leader. i think you'll see a full court press from the president and the vice president here on the next -- over the next couple of days, next week or so about getting this done. i think it's going to be really hard for manchin and others, especially with the ideal that manchin put together his own compromise plan and put it before republicans, and of course republicans, as you know, mitch mcconnell is going to reject it. i think they've sort of boxed
themselves in here, but i also think it's an opportunity for the president and vice president to put strong pressure on senate democrats but also barn storm the country and start talking about this and putting pressure on at local level and an important states about the importance of this issue and have an inside, outside game. >> cornell belcher on the two for one special tonight. we appreciate you on both stories. good to see you. coming up tonight, we also still have a special interview that i don't think you'll see anywhere else. meanwhile, tech titans making headlines for the way they're spending during the pandemic crunch, and soaring poverty, are accountability on the wealth gap and solutions coming up. accountp and solutions coming up.
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the new year has featured some wild parties from the world's billionaires. amazon's jeff bezos ended 2021 with a, quote, crazy disco party on a yacht in st. bart's. elon musk started the year with $32 billion in wealth growth in a day. the billionaires are literally blasting into space, but context matters. 37 million americans are starting this year in poverty. the wealthiest country in the world does not always do the basics for them, even when they are prescribed under law. for example, there's a report showing that many states are sitting on over $5 billion in
welfare funds that go unspent despite a pandemic emergency that stretched for years and poverty, it comes after a lot of republican rhetoric attacking the government and insisting it should not help even when it might be able to. >> government is not the solution to our problem. government is the problem. the nine most terrifying words in the english language are i'm from the government, and i'm here to help. i'm joined by nyu law professor and our friend melissa murray. what do you see here in a situation where it would appear some of these funds are legally available, they have been mandated, and they're being denied to people during these tough times? >> first of all, we can trace a lot of this back to the welfare reforms of the 1990s. in 1996, bill clint ton ushered in welfare reforms to change welfare as we knew it. part of that reform effort involved tightening up requirements for welfare, making
sure that those who are in receipt of public assistance also maintain jobs, so tagging welfare benefits to employment, and we also gave states broader latitude to decide what they could use their federal block grants for, so they have much more discretion in how they can disburse those funds. some of it can go to welfare, but quite a lot of it has gone to other thing, abstinence prevention or abstinence programs for sex education or crisis pregnancy centers in some states. a lot of this has been shifted on the local level to reflect local and state level concerns as opposed to the broader effort to address the broader concern of poverty within some of these states. >> isn't this something that would upset voters if they knew about it? >> i think it would depend. i mean, again, the whole idea of public assistance and welfare has gotten a pretty bad rap. a lot of it began in the reagan administration as your package noted, but again, i think the idea that here we are in a pandemic where so many people
have been without health insurance, so many people have been without assistance, have lost their jobs, have lost their homes, the idea that many of these states are running a surplus with federal funds, i think would strike some as being an incredible misuse of taxpayer funds. >> yeah, and in preparing this story, we saw in one of the states that's on a big crackdown, which is pretty red, texas, over 90% of these welfare applications are rejected. as you point out, it is mixed, in some places that might be where the political wins are. when we look at the reaction to the stimulus and pandemic spending, there certainly was interest in government assistance for the needy, whether you call it the w word or something else as you say, they also impact people. we wanted to get this on the air tonight because it's important and we wanted to get on with somebody who's a good expert for us. professor, thanks for doing that. >> thanks for having me. >> thank you. coming up, the january 6th investigators going after sean hannity for the first time. we go inside the probe on that breaking news with a very
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at xfinity.com/moving. . welcome back. our next guest is someone close to former president trump, an economist and harvard alumni, peter navarro served as a senior trump administration official including as assistant to the president. >> white house trade and senior economic adviser peter navarro. >> trump vet peter navarro is leaking their own january 6th plans. >> assistant to the president and director of the office of trade and manufacturing policy, peter navarro. >> so peter navarro just admitted out loud what 100 lawmakers were willing to do on january 6th. >> former white house trade guy, peter navarro. >> as you can tell, a man often in the news. peter navarro is our guest tonight, and his new book "in trump time" is out now. thanks for being here.
>> ari great to be with you. i guess i am the trade guy, but tonight i think i'm the january 6th guy. the "in trump time" book shows unequivocally that both steven k. bannon and president trump should be exonerated. any violence on capitol hill on january 6th, and what i show in the "in trump time" book, this plan we had called the green bay suite clearly between constitutional and legal lines to basically have only legal voted counted in the election -- >> yep, you mentioned that. we prepared for that, so let's take a look. you mentioned this plan. here's steve bannon talking about it on january 6th. >> i keep saying the mantra, you call the play and i run the play, right? it's like the old green bay power sweep. it's very simple. just one thing leads to another, very logical, and victory's affirmed. >> so go ahead and tell us in
your own words what was the plan and who was in on it besides you, bannon and trump? >> sure, the back story is while i was in the administration after the election beginning on thanksgiving, i produced what would be an exhaustive three-volume report. i went over tens of thousands of pages of documents and proved that the election was in all likelihood stolen through fraud and election regularregularitie. that's the background. on january 6th -- >> that's false. that's false, but the question for the startup fine. >> you can say that that's fine. >> yes, it is fine. but the question for the start of the interview is -- i just want to make sure we're kind of going by the rules of the road. >> the question is -- >> and you'll get time to talk -- >> i know you got to say that and what i'm saying is that -- >> i don't have to say anything, sir, i'm asking you -- the question is what was the plan itself, and who was in on it? >> exactly. and i'm going to tell you that. the plan was simply this.
we had over 100 congressmen and senators on capitol hill ready to implement the sweep. the sweep was simply that. we were going to challenge the results of the election in the six battleground states. they were michigan, pennsylvania, georgia, wisconsin, nevada, and basically these were the places where we believed that if the votes were sent back those battleground states and looked at again that there would be enough concern amongst the legislatures that most or all of those states would decertify the election. that would throw the election to the house of representatives, and i would say to you here, ari, that all of this, again, was in the lanes legally. it was prescribed by the constitution. there is a provision to go rather than through the electoral college to the house of representatives, and all this required was peace and calm on
capitol hill, and at 1:00 p.m. ted cruz, senator ted cruz and gosar, a representative started the green bay sweep beautifully challenging the results of arizona. here's the most important thing i can tell you about this. the thing that we were trying to deal with was a media which refused to acknowledge any kind of possible fraud or irregulari irregularities. >> right, well, let's get into it -- peter, i've given you some time here, and i think you've explained that, and i'm going to follow up here, and i want us to have a back and forth, but that involves both of us. you just described away -- yeah. you just described this plan as a way to take an election where the outcome was established by independent secretaries of state, but the voters of those states and legal remedies have been exhausted with the supreme court never even taking, let alone siding with any of the claims that you just referred to, so legally they went
nowhere, and then you're describing a way that the incumbent -- hold on. you will get your turn. i just let you go for a while. let's go back and forth. you will lose the incumbent losing party's power, that was the republican party's power to overtake and reverse that outcome. do you realize you are describing a coup? >> no, i totally reject many of your premises there. first of all, the election was still in doubt and would be until it was certified. second, the idea that secretaries of state, particularly in michigan and pennsylvania were like innocent parties, i mean, jocelyn benson and kathy bookfar, the secretaries of state in michigan and pennsylvania, they were put in power by george soros for the express purpose of shifting the playing field to the democrats. they were found in both states to have broken the law. the point here is, ari, that we
were following the constitution and rules of the senate to simply get a recount of what the votes were, and we were looking for these battleground states to basically review whether -- >> peter, let me press you on this, people don't always hear -- >> that's by the book. that's by the book. >> people don't always hear directly from the folks involved. steve bannon, as you know, is risking going to jail rather than just provide testimony about it. you by contrast are describing it in your book some of the same stuff. so i don't know what he's afraid of that clearly you're not, but when you describe a system where after all of the legal remedies are exhausted, the people who lost just make noise and then say that they won and seize power, don't you understand -- i mean, this is my question for you because i get to talk to you directly here, don't you understand that if that actually were the system it would be dumb and dangerous? if the people who lost could just get up there and say, well, we want to do our own count, not
the state law recount, not what the supreme court provides for, everyone remembers bush v. gore, there are situations where they get involved, but just people in the trump administration decide, well, we disagree. don't you understand why people see yourthing where when you lose you stay in power, they see that as really dangerous? >> your presumption is the remedies were exhausted. my presumption is the remedies weren't exhausted at all. the remedy was for vice president pence as the quarterback in the green bay sweep to remand those votes back to the six battleground states for ten days for a look to see if there were any election irregularities or fraud. >> let's get into that from your book. i'm going to read from your book and go back to you. quickly you said i'm taking that contention, i don't have any contention. i quoted the facts of the supreme court. >> but you said it was -- you said the remeies were exhausted. >> in the courts, and that's true. we can live in a world where you -- we can live in a world
where you say the supreme court is in canada. you can say that, you have the right to say that, but the supreme court's in d.c. and the supreme court -- >> that is a -- >> -- in d.c. did not take these cases. let's read from your book with regard to your contention about the vice president. you say, quote, pence refused to take by repeated phone calls about election irregularities despite a direct request from president trump to do so. what was your vision that you would get pence to do that which trump couldn't get him to do? >> no, my only reason to talk to vice president mike pence was to explain to him as i documented in my three volume report that in all likelihood, there was significant election fraud and irregularities across the six battleground states. i mean, these were ubiquitous six dimensions of fraud. i simply wanted to brief mike on what i had found. i had what we called the receipts, and that's all the conversation -- >> why wouldn't he listen to you do you think?
why wouldn't he listen to you? >> i talk about it in the book, his chief of staff mark short who is a network conservative meaning that he's a never trumper basically walled off vice president pence from the day mark took chief of staff's a sad story. the thing about mike's betrayal of president trump, which is really interesting is he never shared the legal analysis of his general counsel and mark short. >> but that brings us back to the same point and this may be, this may be relevant in the future elections, which is don't you think somebody would have thought of this if the income -- income bent administration, we have a system designed for it, i want to say respectfully, but it's the truth to stop
people like you. the reviewers of the voters, you trump the supreme court no pun intended, people like you are what the constitution are designed to stop and it worked and did stop you, which i guess brings us to this idea of the goals that you talk about in the book because again, you're out here and work for the president. i'll let you respend and you say the goal is not to get election overturned today. what do you say to the system doing that not through partisans like you but in the next time if we hear about this in the next midterms or next election, that's what the states and courts already do. >> well, they didn't do their duty. this is a failure of the judicial branch. everything -- >> they did. >> was rejected on process, not fact. there was no evidence hearings,
including the supreme court. >> you're describing something that's very bad for your side, which is the cases were still weak and didn't reach the march -- merits. >> you just read from my book, all we wanted was to look at what i found. look, ari, the difference between me and everyone else in the debate, i did the homework. i'm the guy who had thousands of pages of documents, did the analysis. i went in with an idea trying to figure out what happened and what happened was a very elaborate thing. if you look at the molly ball cover story, if you read that, they admit they stole it. come on, ari. >> peter, i can't fact check everything in realtime and also do the interview but some of what you said is false. folks can stay informed. i want to turn to covid before i lose you because you're news
worthy on more than one topic. >> before covid shut down the u.s., back in 2020 some warnings proved correct. you wrote a memo about the risk of a worst case pandemic scenario. why weren't you listened to more? >> interestingly, tony fauci is a key person that wouldn't listen to a word i had to say. i think that i had the benefit of knowing communist china of basically writing a book back in 2006 that predicted there might be a pandemic from communist china. in trump time, talks about all the people in the west wing who were really tone deaf to the crisis. you know, i can't explain why they thought that way. i do know that there was three people in the white house were taken it seriously with robert o'bryan, national security advisor, myself and yes,
president trump and that's why he did the travel ban in january. that's why he had me write a series of significant memos, one on february 9th, which got operational warp speed started and got us vaccines much quicker than i think any other president could have delivered but ari, i can't tell you how frustrated i was in february and march having to fight people in the west wing -- >> well, look, i want to show one more thing, peter. but we did show "the new york times" headline. it is interesting how you warned then people are well familiar with the covid issues and what president did and didn't do. that was interesting. last thing you mentioned, fauci, i thought you might. when we spoke to him, he had choice words for you. take a look. >> the people who weaponize lies are killing people. so the only question i have is that when you show tucker carlson and peter navarro criticiing me, i consider that
a badge of honor. >> peter, that's the final question on the big issue as covid continues to proliferate. let me get the question out, sir. he served with you and many people. he says the very active you, peter navarro criticizing him is a badge of honor, the suggestion being while you did hold these posts, you're not credible at all. i want to give you the benefit of responding to dr. fauci. >> every time i confronted fauci going back to the first time i met him and didn't know who he was, i was right, and he was wrong. that's weird. i'm the economists. he's supposed to be the health care professional. let's be honest, throughout this pandemic, fauci has been uncertain in just about everything. the biggest thing i think he said was this noble lie when he lied about masks because he thought there might be a shortage. i mean, that i think revealed his character. fast forward to the latest thing he said, hey, we'll keep people
off airplanes so we can force them to vaccinate. i'm one of the guys who got that vaccination thing going and we did a great job doing it but i can tell you, ari, it's only meant for people who are senior citizens and people with co-morbidities. it's not something we should be putting in children. we can argue about that. fauci has blood on his hands -- >> i'm out of time. we spent -- sir. >> rand paul. >> we saved a lot of time. i appreciate you taking the questions. some of what you said was false and we'll do our updates on the program but appreciate you coming on. peter navarro, we'll be right back. coming on. peter navarro, we'll be right back and a commitment to get you the best price on every trade, which saved investors over $1.5 billion last year. that's decision tech. only from fidelity.
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