tv The Rachel Maddow Show MSNBC January 4, 2022 9:00pm-10:00pm PST
and famously proud of the company because they come from canada, just like me. if your blackberry runs on android software you can still use it. but today rest in peace to the once again, we are having a weird one in terms of a news night. tonight, the january six investigation has written to a cable news holes to ask him to preserve his communications related to the january 6th attack on the capital including his communications with former president trump and others at the trump white house. they are asking him to come in for a transcribed interview.
asking to come in voluntarily for a transcribed interview. they are not subpoenaing him nor are the raising that prospect. but that kind of a prospect looms with other people. in this letter, to this cable news hose, they have released a series of his texts, his communications with trump white house chief of staff mark meadows in particular. the reason they have released those text, it appears, is to make the case both to him and the public that he is an important fact witness for the investigation. and they need to ask him questions about what he knows. because he may know stuff that other people really don't. now, the tv host in question is a man name sean hannity. he's a primetime week knows. and regardless of whether you have heard of him or seen his show or his commentary about january six are about trump, it does appear from what the investigation released tonight that mr. sean hannity is kind
of in the thick of it. at least, what's the white house chief of staff and apparently with the president himself. they say, quote, they're mr. hannity the select committee now's information indicating that you had advance knowledge regarding president trump and his legal teams planning for january six. it also appears that you were expressing concerns and providing advice to presidential and answered and whiteout staff regarding the planning. you also had relevant communications while the riot was underway and in the days thereafter. these communications make you a fact witness in our investigation. the select committee is in possession of dozens of text messages you sent to and received from white house chief of staff mark meadows. these are related to the 2020 election and trump's effort to contest the outcome of that vote. for example, on december 31st, 2020, you texted mr. meadows the following, quote, we can't lose the entire white house counsel's office. i do not see january six
happening the way he is being told. he presumably meaning the president. after the six, he should announce that he will lead the nationwide effort to reform of voting integrity. go to, florida, and watch joe mess up daily. staying gauged. when he speaks people will listen. quote, this techs suggest that you had knowledge of concerns by president trump's white house counsel office regarding the legality of the former presidents plans for january six. these facts are directly relevant to our inquiry. similarly on january 5th, the night before the violent riot, you sent and received a stream of text. you wrote, quote, i'm very worried about the next 48 hours. with the counting of the electoral vote scheduled for the following day, january six at 1 pm, why were you concerned about the next 48 hours? also, on the eve of january 5th,
you texted mark meadows, quote, pence pressure. white house counsel will lead. what communications or information led you to conclude that white house counsel would leave? what precisely did you know at that time? the committee continues, quote, it also appears from other text messages that you may have had a conversation with president trump on the evening of january 5th. and perhaps at other times regarding his planning for january six. we are also aware of and interested in your communication with mark meadows during the violent attack of january six as the rioters were attempting to occupy the capital building. for example, you texted mark meadows press coverage related to a potential effort by members of trump's cabinet to remove him from office using the 25th amendment. as you may recall, secretary devos and secretary chao both resigned following presidents conduct on january six as did members of the presidents white house staff. we would like to question you
regarding any conversations you had with mark meadows or others about any effort to remove president trump using the 25th amendment. additionally, you appeared to have had a discussion with president trump on january 10th that may have raised the number of specific concerns about his actions in the days before the an occupation on january 20th. you wrote to mark meadows and congressman jim jordan on january 10th, quote, guys we have a clear path to land the plane in nine days. he can't mention the election again, ever. i did not have a good goal with him today. and worse, i am not sure what is left to do or say. and i don't like not knowing if it's truly understood. ideas? again, the text message sent to mark meadows. and trump being republican congressman jim jordan. the committee continues, quote, none of these communications are subject to any privilege. they all bear directly to the issues of our committee. we cannot in good faith filled
to question you to the specifics relevant to our investigations. these are related to the interference with the peaceful transfer of power. this is interesting. again, the gentleman to who this letter has been director -- is a cable news hose. we stress that our goal is not to seek information regarding any of your broadcast, or your political views, or your commentary. we have deep respect for the first amendment to our constitution. as we detailed above, you appear to have factual information directly relevant to the events of january 6th and the attack on the institutions of our democracy. we have a duty to understand all of the underlying facts and to make legislation to recommendations. please identify for the select committee the name of your council. we will work with a person to schedule time for a transcribed interview with the select committee. we are also interested in other communications teammate had with the white house, president trump, the trump legal team, or any other persons involved in the events of january six. we now ask you to preserve all records of such communications.
we have no doubt that you love our country and respect our constitution. now is the time to step forward and serve the interests of your country. we thank you in advance for your cooperation. and it is signed, bernie thompson and liz cheney. the vice chair of the investigation. >> what a world we are in. again, this letter sent tonight to a cable news host of the popular fox news channel, we don't know how you will respond. we don't know if he will provide information with the committee or not. the committee had noted that the previously released another of his text messages to the white house in which he pleaded for the then president trump to his supporters to leave the capital on january six. so we know from this man's private communications that he believed, at the time of the attack on the capital, that trump was responsible for and he could control the behavior of the trump supporting mob
that day. for what it is worth, that sentiment, that trump was responsible and could've stopped january six if you wanted to, that is not something that this gentleman has articulated publicly about january six. although the private communication suggests that it may be the case. so we will see. his lawyer says that he is reviewing the request from the committee and there's been no response yet. we shall see. in terms of connecting the dots here. there had been previous reporting, including from testimony to the senate, that trump's white house chief of staff, pat cipollone, had said at the white house meeting on january 3rd that he would resign as white house counsel. he was reported to have said that at a january 3rd meeting in the oval office where trump was discussing the possibility of installing a new attorney so that he can use the justice department to basically force the falsification of the
election results. we knew, previously from other testimonies that cipollone had threatened to resign at that meeting. over that prospect of the justice department being used in that way. these new text from mr. hannity would seem to suggest that the white house counsel also threatened to resign even earlier than that. four days earlier than that. as early as last new years eve. what was that threat to resign about? also, from the text from mr. hannity that was released by the investigation tonight, it would appear that the white house counsel also was renewing those threats to resign on days later. on january 5th, the night before the attack on the capitol. acrding to the taxthat threat to resign would appear to be a response to the pressure that was being put on vice president, mike pence, by trump and his coconspirators. pressure to try to get mike pence effectively spoil the counting of the electoral votes on congress on january six.
did pat cipollone threatened to resign on new year's eve, on january 3rd, on january 5th? again, we do not know if mr. hannity will respond to this request to provide information to this committee and flush out the facts of those previously unknown details about what happened. it is interesting that they are appealing to this in asking him to give information to the committee. i don't know, i think regardless of party, regardless of cable news outlet of your choice, all americans would like to know what mr. hannity knew on january 5th that made him text to the white house, i am very worried about the next 48 hours. what did he know about what was going to happen in the next 48 hours that made him tell the white house chief of staff that he was very worried? we shall see. but tonight we've also got something else that is new. the publication of a book, today, by a member of the
january six investigation who was also the lead impeachment manager appointed by house speaker nancy pelosi to prosecute the case against former president trump in the second impeachment. the impeachment for inciting the attack on the capital, this time last year. and as you will recall, it feels like it's been both five minutes and also 50 years. this time last year, the house voted to impeach trump. the vote in the house was january 13. one month later, a majority of the u.s. senate, 57 senators also voted to convict the former president that was the largest bipartisan vote for an impeachment in american history. but a 57 vote majority is not enough to secure a conviction in the senate. to get a conviction you need a two third vote. you need 67, not 57 votes. looking back on that, the historical consequences are
really stark. had enough republican senators, that they, voted to obtain that formal conviction, had been 67 senators voting to convict and not 57, former president donald trump would not just be the only president twice impeached in u.s. history, which he is, he would've also become the first ever president barred by law from ever running from any public office again. had they actually convicted him, had they got 67 votes, he would've been barred from running for public office again. but he was not convicted. 57 votes. not 67. because he was not convicted he is not barred from running for office again. he is likely to run for president again. even as the justice department of the january six investigation where the question right now of whether he could ever be held criminally liable. this is for his role in the
conspiracy to trump the transfer of power to the new president and thereby overthrow the united states government. the january 6th attack on the capital was part of that plan. we now know, next to the year of investigation, it was only part of the. plante was the integral part of the plan but it was just part of it. three term maryland congressman, jamie raskin, sits on the january six investigation now. he also was the lead impeachment manager. he personally led the impeachment effort against trump for the january 6th attempt. the week the capital was attacked last year, jamie raskin also lost his beloved 25 year old son tommy to suicide. tommy died on december 31st. he was buried on january 5th. january 5th last year. congressman jamie raskin was with its daughter and his son-in-law at the u.s. capital the following day, the day after his son's funeral on january six when the attack on
the capitol happened. congressman jamie raskin's new book is out today. it is called "unthinkable: trauma, truth, and the trials of american democracy". the book is in some sense a biography of his son. a love letter to his son. it is also in astonishing, very difficult, loving account of losing his son. it is also a memoir about congressman raskin's own life. his own leap in particular from being a constitutional law professor to being a very high-profile member of congress. it is also a searing and original at times very surprising attack on the january six. and the apartment that followed a lot of insider information about the impeachment effort we never had before. it is also a clear and call about the ongoing threat from trump and from the authoritarian anti-democratic forces that he has unleashed in this country that are more that are more dangerous than dangerous now than they've ever been ever the government. . in jamie raskin's new, book out
today. we learned, among other things, that he had a little initially proposed a motion that senators should vote on senators impeachment by secret ballot. they should not stand up and vote, but they shouldn't conduct their vote in secret. i think a lot of americans believe that had been a secret ballot, the conviction of trump would not have just been a shirt, it might have been unanimous. raskin also proposes senators should sit alphabetically rather than by party, breaking senators apart from their partisan bonds, at least in that physical sense, so that could more easily vote,. we learned then raskin's book that he has come to see the attack on january six is three coincided and brinks, the first ring, the outer ring, the rioters. screaming and smashing things. up the second ring, the middle ring, the insurrectionists, who came to actually stop the congressional vote counting process, including the
paramilitaries among them, who are trained, and who in some cases brought arms to the capital region, to try and achieve that goal. but then the innermost ring, the one that he calls is the ring of the coup. raskin says, quote, in my mind it was here, in the bull's-eye center of the action, that trump operated, likely along with chief of staff mark meadows, rudy giuliani oh, house my -- senator josh hawley, representative jim jordan, and the most extreme elements of the gop house and senate conferences. this is where the actual strategy for trump to stay in power was being executed. the basic idea, he says, turned on getting vice president mike pence to declare an announcer hitherto unknown and unilateral power in the vice presidency to repudiate electoral votes from specific states. if and when pence did, that by vaguely citing allegations of fraud in those states in returning their votes to the state legislators, pence would succeed in lowering biden's electoral vote total tupelo to 70, which would immediately
trigger, under the 12th amendment, a contingent election. the house contingent election was the one place where trump could still win the election. again, those are the three wings of the attack, that raskin describes, in terms of what was going on on january 6th. of course, there is, tonight, ahead of attorney general eric garland speech tomorrow, on january 6th. merrick garland is going to give an address, tomorrow, to the american public, about the january six investigation and his prosecution. there is, tonight, still a wide open pressing question as to whether anybody in that innermost ring, what raskin calls the ring of the coop, the people who actually devised and implemented the plan to overthrow the government there -- remains an open question tonight, as to whether they will get off scot-free. as to whether their efforts will go unanswered. the question remains whether
they will have to answer for that. for what they did, with anything more then more chances to try and do it again. here's how jamie raskin breaks it down from that day, from the floor of the house. he says, quote, boom. i hear the sound i will never forget. it sounded like a battering ram, the sound of a group of people barreling up against the central door with some huge, hard, thick object, hell-bent on entering the house chamber. the members nearby press furniture up against the door, and a number of us farther away run to the door to protect it, but then we are quickly told to get back up capitol police officers, who russian and defend the entranceway with their guns drawn. the pounding of the door accelerates, we can hear the sound of -- hang mike pence, also we want trump.
someone official calls upon us to evacuate right away, calmly. everyone moves, some people run, to the speakers lobby, carrying their gas masks. i look up to the gallery, against your colleagues, you've been frozen in place on the democratic side, now awkwardly crouching in sliding through the rows to make their way to the gallery above the republican side. i see new hampshire representative annie kuster, and california represent sarah jacobs, who's only one for three on the job, crawling their way. over to the gallery above the republican side. when we escape in our reunited you later, a colleague tells me they decide to cross over to the republican side because they thought a mass shooter who would enter would be less likely to aim at the republican side of the house. meantime, the offices up there have locked on the doors to keep the rioters from breaking in, but they will now presumably unlock him to get her colleagues out. i feel strange but leaving them up there, but then again, who knows where we are going. where will any of us fund
safety on january 6th? a bloodthirsty mobs of hundreds outside -- with no security check, who knows well weapons are carrying. what if one of the riders is carrying an ar-15? many of us are thinking the same thought. i wonder where all this chaos is taking us, whether tabatha, hank, and julia are safe at the capitol. whether they'll be rescued soon. whether i should try and turn back and find officers, whether these insurrectionists have firearms. whether donald trump's allies planned to escalate the violence. whether we're facing an insurrection, a coup, or even a civil war, whether we will finally impeach the trader for setting loose the dogs of war upon us. perhaps invoke, at last, the unsung 25th amendment, whether deer merica will survive this appalling headfirst descent into political madness. i feel curiosity, anger, resolve, but there's one thing i do not feel as, we travel down down, down, down as we are
escorted into the dark complex basement passageways of the capitol, one thing i don't sense as we are jostled this way and shepherded that. there's one emotion that i am experienced at all, on this persistently gloomy and objectively terrifying day and then i will not experience all through the night, and that is fear. i feel no fear. i have felt no fear today at all. for we have lost our tommy raskin, and the very thing that ever could've happened to us has already happened. but i am still in the land of the living, and tommy is with me someery step of the way. he's occupying my heart and filling my chest with oxygen, he showed me the way to some kind of safety. my beautiful son is giving me courage as we flee to the u.s. capitol building for our lives. my trauma, my wound has now become my shield of defense in my path of escape, and all i can think of his my son propelling me forward to fight.
joining us now, congressman jamie raskin, democrat of maryland. the author of the new book, unthinkable, trauma, truth in, the trials of the american democracy. thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me, rachel. i have to ask you. >> reading the book, having spoken to you over the last couple of years. you are incredibly articulate -- unimaginably articulate about your choice to state, keep working, and write this book in the midst of this grief and challenge. now that you're putting it out to the world, able to talk about, it does it still feel like the right thing to do? does it still feel like you had to do? it >> tommy was a young man, indeed he was a boy who was filled with extraordinary moral and political passions. i think, it feels right because
of who he was in what he wanted for the world. tommy was in a second year of harvard law school when we lost him, deeply engaged in movements for human rights against war or animal rights and welfare, and to defend and expand democracy. he was asking a lot more of democracy, not less. so, i did feel very much in my heart, and my chest through the entire period. it's been a tough year, rachel, as you know. that wasn't getting a lot of sleep for a long time, i was up at night time, there were very few people to call, even on the west coast, even when i was up so late. i decided that i can either spin or as to my life obsessed with this 50-day period of my life, or i can try to record it for my daughters, for my family, for my constituents, for my friends, for my fellow countrymen and i would do that
trying to make sense out of what happened. a year on, how do you feel tommy would feel about the work that's happen in the? country >> in response said the attack in the effort to try and investigate what happened, in the effort to pursue accountability. obviously, the first step to pursue accountability was the effort you led, the impeachment. you're a member of the january six investigation, we learned so much more since, there's still so many open questions about what happened and how it will be accounted for. how do you think he would view our progress over the year? >> well, when tommy was not under the dark midst of his depression, he was the life of the party. he was radically optimistic and buoyant about our prospects for
changing things in america and all over the world. i think, he'd be looking on the bright side of how many people are cooperating with our investigation, how many people are coming forward to tell the truth about what happened, and how many people want to solidify the institutions of american democracy. there's no doubt that as we get closer to donald trump, there is a coterie of people, like steve bannon and mark meadows, who are very much protecting the secrets of what took place. i think the truth will prevail. i think tommy had confidence in democracy, you're not going to be up to fool all of the people, all of the time. the truth will resurface. >> you are hard on yourself throughout the book, both in terms of seeing the signs of what was going on with your son, also seeing the signs of what was going on with the country, and with a democracy. you write in detail about how
speaker pelosi, in the spring of 2020, who would ask you and some colleagues, to basically game out all the ways that the election could be messed with. the ways trump and his cohort might try to corrupt the election result, trying to steal it. you describe all the different scenarios that you prepared for. but then you say this, in essence we predicted every maneuver coming our way except for, won the unleashing of mob violence to intimidate the vice president in congress, overwhelm and stop the counting of votes in provided protects and contacts for trump to potentially enter varying with military force under the insurrection act to put down the uprising he had helped organize. hindsight is 2020 here, but i'm wondering if you had -- the thing you beat yourself up for, is not seeing that coming. had you seen that coming, had you been able to predict that, is there something that could've been done, proactively to, stop it from happening? >> we just spent countless hours figuring out every
possible parliamentary maneuver and counter maneuver, if vice president pence tried to clear these extra constitutional lawless powers to reject in rebuffed electoral college votes. if the gop pursue their objections -- we had tried to predict every possible parliamentary maneuver. of course, being democrats, and being liberal minded people, we were thinking within the context of the constitutional and legal system. that's why i quote some of the right-wing's favorite philosophers, like carl schmidt, saying sovereign is he who controls the exception. on january 6th, we moved outside of the rule of law, into this twilight land of the exception, where they were talking about invoking the insurrection act. they were making things up about the electoral count act,
making things up about the constitution. that we had not prepared for. i fault myself for that. just like i say i fault myself for not talk about suicide to tommy, and i like him not talking to a depressed person to not talking to a teenager about sex. you think somehow you're being clever, by suppressing a reality that you don't want to materialize, but, in fact, you're making it worse. when you don't speak these words, it in taoism with more power. i like not talking about suicide to not talking about fascism. i think we have to talk about fascism, which madeleine albright has reminded us, it's not a specific ideological system, with polar content. it's just a strategy for taking power and maintaining power, against the rule of law, and against the majority in democracy. >> and it's something that doesn't happen all at once,
it's something that happen, as you describe, in places you might not expect. it creeps. if you ignore while it's starting, it only grows. congressman, we're going to have to take a quick break, i hope you don't mind me asking you to stay through the break. i want to talk to about the investigation in january 6th -- to testify for my documents to the committee. that's a red hot question in a live prospects for a lot of reasons. if you don't mind, sir, i love to ask you about that when we come back. ♪ ♪ just two pills for all day pain relief. aleve it, and see what's possible. and also try alevex topical pain relief. i always wanted to know more about my grandfather.
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you can keep your internet and all those shows you love, and save money while you're at it with special offers just for movers we are back with congressman at xfinity.com/moving. jamie raskin up -- with this incredible new book out today, it's called "unthinkable: trauma, truth, and the trials of american democracy". congressman raskin, thank you for sticking with us. i really appreciate you being here. so there is this surprise news tonight that the january 6th investigation, you are a member of that nine member investigation. they are seeking the cooperation of sean hannity because of his techs with white house chief of staff mark meadows and apparently has communication with other people
at the white house around january six. you are a constitutional law professor, i know you have an acute sensitivity to not only the first amendment to all the rights in shined in our constitution and the bill of rights. are there any first amendment concerns that you have? or any first amendment concerns that should be aired around this request that mr. hannity provide information to the investigation? >> the supreme court has repeatedly said, rachel, that on a truthful testimony to congress or to court that we kept calling -- so you can be a elementary school driver or elementary school teacher. you could be a doctor or you can be a worker for msnbc or fox news. but if you have evidence that is from live into a congressional investigation or to report cases, you turn over the evidence. now, we were very clear in this letter that was sent to mr. hannity, there was not about anything that he said on air he
is not going to be in trouble for any political viewpoint that he has taken. that of course would trouble me a lot. this is about what he knew about plans to attack the peaceful transfer of power on january the six. so he has to come and testify just like everybody else does. >> it does seem, from the messages attributed to mr. hannity that was released from the investigation tonight, it is advancing the story for us a little bit. it had previously been described to the senate, actually, by witnesses testifying to the senate that the white house counsel had threatened to resign. on january 3rd, in reaction to trump working out some planned by which he would have the justice department essentially act to falsify the election results. and it again, had previously been described, publicly in that testimony, that the white house counsel was going to resign over that. mr. hannity's text messages would suggest that there was at least a couple of other
instances in which the council was threatening to resign one, on january december 31st. and the night before the january 6th attack. am i correct glee reading into those that he is describing a new standoff within the administration? new concerns about the -- legality that we didn't previously know about? >> we knew that trump's own appointed leadership with the apartment of justice, for example, was threatening to resign if he indeed would go forward with this plan to install richard clark as a new attorney general so that he could proclaim the big lie as justification for getting mike pence to reject electoral college votes and kick the whole thing into a contingent election. and this is the exact same process that there were people who saw the constitutional danger of what donald trump was doing and they tried to blow
the whistle a little bit in their way. they tried to act as a restraining force. of course, they didn't go out to talk to the department of justice. they didn't go out to talk to the media. they didn't blow the whistle publicly. but at least they were doing what they could behind the scenes to try and stop it. it tells us a lot about what was taking place there and about how we might be able to avoid a situation like this in the future. and of course, that is the charge of the january six committee. to tell the truth and to tell a comprehensive and painstaking and find green way about what took police. and then to make recommendations, legislative and policy recommendations about how to avoid a future attack on american democracy like this one. >> congressman, one lets question for you about the investigation. again, you are the only constitutional law professor in congress. it comes in handy way more often than it's comfortable for it to come in handy these days. but, given your unique perspective i wondered if you had a view on whether or not congress has the power to
subpoena its own members for an investigation like this? congressman jim jordan, congressman scott perry both have refused or seem to look a stance to voluntarily provide information to the investigation. if you and your fellow members of the investigation decide that you want to subpoena them, do you believe you have the power to do that? it has never been done before. >> well, without saying anything about what the committee may or may not do i think it's clear that we do are such a power under article one. we have the power to define the rules of our own proceedings. we have the power to discipline and potentially expel members. also, the speech debate clause says that members of congress will not be questioned anywhere else other than congress. this is about conduct that they may have engaged in. and i think that that clearly indicates permission for questioning our own members. which is something of course we do all the time in the ethics committee. >> congressman jamie raskin,
democratic congressman from maryland, author of a really, really excellent heartbreaking new book which is called "unthinkable: trauma, truth, and the trials of american democracy". congressman, thank you for writing the book. thank you for talking to us about it tonight. i know that nothing is easy at this point. including conversations like this one. but bless you for having them. thank you for being here. >> and thank you very much for reading my book and having me rachel. >> appreciate it. thank you. we've got much more ahead tonight. stay with us. ght. stay with us if it works on nfl jerseys it'll work for you. and it's cold. so you will turn to cold? fine! that guy needs to chill out!
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to you about that part of it. ask me five minutes, let's see. president biden met with the covid response team at the white house. he said that the omicron wave is crashing over the country now, is something we should be concerned about, but not alarmed about, if we are vaccinated. still, the distance between concern and alarm is a fine distance. it's a small distance for a lot of us. the great state of maryland, today, for example, declared a 30-day state of emergency to mobilize the military to help health officials respond to the virus. saving maryland's hospitals. we also learned today that new military medical teams are fanning out in more states. military medical personnel arm working i intend states across the country. here's my worry, that we've been talking about for a few days now, hospital numbers are tracking upward in multiple states. our trajectory are basically looking a steep is as the
president's -- infection numbers going up now like crazy is one, thing with seeing those grasses hospitalizations going up, just a steeply, that's unsettling as well. the white house today announced that they're doubling the size the order of pfizer's very effective, but very scarce anti viral pill. there are ordering 20 million not, 10 million -- the cdc -- should get their pfizer booster five months after your second pfizer shot, rather than waiting to six months. the fda has just approved booster shots for kids aged 12 to 15. there's a lot going on, there's a lot of movement, there's a lot of action happening in terms of response to this wave. but, the hospitalizations numbers and case numbers are both looking scary right now. honestly. joining us now, david kessler. a great source of guidance for us, here, over the past few months. the chief science adviser to the biden ministration.
doctor kessler, it's always an honor to have time with you. thank you for making time. >> thank you for having, me rachel. >> the president said, if you're vaccinated and boosted you should look at these rising case numbers and this current wave with concern, but not with alarm. i will tell you, honestly, i feel alarmed, looking at the hospitalization numbers rising so steeply. i was not alarm about the case numbers rising, because we have been told, and you have explained that the cases are more mild. they're not necessarily as more as threatening. seeing the hospitalization numbers going up so steeply, when the hospitals were already tax, i'm worried about that. >> so, let's go through what we know. first, cases are everywhere. yes, there is an increase in hospitalizations, and my friends in the icu units, they are crushed. no question, increase in
hospitalization. i think we are seeing something fundamentally different. that could change, this could be due to the variant, it could be due to the extent of the immunity. if you look at the rate of hospitalization, all these people who are now infected, the number of hospitalizations is reduced. most importantly, this is key, this should comfort you, rachel. if you get into the hospital, there's less chance that you're going to end up on a breathing machine, or in the icu, and there's less death. that's key. we're going to get through this. this is fundamentally -- something is different in the long pathology with this variant. yes, enormous number of cases, but i think we're going to get
through this. i think the president is exactly right. >> to be clear, what you're saying is that even among those who are hospitalized, we're seeing less clinical severity, in terms of progression to being incubated or on a ventilator. progression to death. the clinical severity is less even amongst those who are hospitalized. is that where you're saying? >> that's exactly correct. that doesn't mean these hospitals are in very strained, but the fact is, there is less death, less advancement to the icu. that is very good news. >> that is good. news it is something that i've seen preliminary data, and some foreign data about. hearing you put that in that simple terms, that's a significant thing. obviously, part of what is different, now, in the hospitals --
and even in the outpatient setting, compared to a year ago. one of the things it's different, the means that we have to treat people. we did just see this announcement that we're doubling the order of the new therapeutics, with anti viral pill. i have to ask you, does that mean will get it any sooner? obviously, means we're going to get more, in the end, but are we going to get access to significant ember of doses any faster? >> we're going to get some sooner. supply will still be very tight, in the near term. we'll have about 200,000 courses in the next month. next, we get to 650,000 courses by. march by april, we get to 2 million. that's when things open up. by june, will have the first 10 million, mid september, will have 20 million. the most important thing, in the meantime, even if you don't have access to that pfizer pill, there are three other treatments.
there is over 4 million doses of those treatments available this month, don't forget, the most important thing, even if you haven't had your first dose of vaccine, please go get that, that's absolutely key. there are a lot of treatments available, more on the way. >> doctor david kessler, chief science adviser to the biden administration. another is a lot going on in terms of policy response, trying to be nimble in response to the gigantic new wave, thank you for taking time to help us understand. i appreciated, sir. >> my pleasure, rachel. >> we'll be right back, stay with us. with us. was a bit of a buzz kill, right? so she ordered sunglasses with prime, one day delivery. ♪♪ clever girl. people realized she's actually hilarious once you get to know her. eugh. as if. ♪♪
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merrick garland is due to give a speech about the progress, the justice department has made in prosecuting crimes that took place at the capitol on january six last year. as you can imagine, there's been a lot of anticipation about the speech. particularly to the question of whether the justice department is only going to prosecute low-level people or whether they will actually bring prosecutions against anybody who defies and tried to implement the overall plan to overthrow the government. nobody knows what the attorney general is going to say, but msnbc will carry that speech live when it happens tomorrow at 2:30 pm eastern. so watch this space. that's going to do it for us for now. i'll see you again tomorrow night and now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. >> good evening rachel. that was an extraordinary interview with jamie raskin. there is obviously so much in that book and you presented both the book and his story