tv The Rachel Maddow Show MSNBC February 3, 2022 1:00am-2:00am PST
harvard medical school is not attached to its own hospital. like, for example, stanford medical school is really highly ranked. same goes for johns hopkins goen they've got that incredibly highly ranked medical school, johns hopkins university hospital. also at the university of pennsylvania's hospital inso philadelphia. that's a common setup for big highly-ranked medical schools but that is not how it works for harvard. harvard is the top-ranked or one of the top-ranked schools in the united states year after year. but they don't have their own individual teaching hospital. instead, harvard medical school partners with a whole bunch of hospitals. they partner with more than a dozenre different hospitals and medical institutions in the boston area and they use all of them as their teaching hospitals and affiliates.
it's a major teaching hospital, asl. i said it is affiliated wi harvard medical school. it is really prestigious. really accomplished. one of the most highly rated hospitals notis only in the unid states, it's one of the highly rated hospitals in the whole world. and a week and a half ago, at brigham and women's hospital in boston, this happened. they had an outbreak of nazis. this is a neo nazi group based in worcester, massachusetts. we know that because they put they're mail address on the threatening flier that the group handed out at the hospital. high proton mail, your servers are being used as contact information for literal nazi recruitment efforts in the united states.te did you know that the nazi group was out in front of brigham and women's hospital, a week ago saturday, they handed out flyers, targeting two doctors be name, accusing them of anti-white genocidal policy, and these guys lined up in their pants and their
little matching shirts and their masks, and they held up this big sign. brigham and women's hospital killssi whites. really? the hospital kills whites. kills white people. and so the nazis are out there in front of the hospital, on saturday morning, defending all of the poor white people from the doctors and the hospitals are trying to kill all of the white people. why do the nazis think that the hospitals are trying to killdo e white people? where do they get this from? well, this happened, exactly one week prior. >> the left is now rationing life-saving therapeutics based on race, discriminating against and denigrating, just denigrating white people to determine who lives andgr who dies. if you're white, you don't get the vaccine or if you're white, due get therapeutics. if you're white, you have to go to the back of the line to get
medical help. think of it. if you're white, you go right to the back of the line. think of it. if you're right, you go right to the back'r of the line. that was trump speaking saturday the 15th. it was saturday the 22nd, exactly one week later, there's the nazis. outside the hospital in boston. with their big sign, this hospital kills white people. they're so pleased with themselves, they posted like a travel log of themselves all taking the t in boston, wearing their little nazi outfits and handing out nazi flyers to people on the platform waiting for the train and heil hitler nazi salutes during the transportation doing the white power hand gesture thing. more nazi salutes. never get tired of that one. this is massachusetts last weekend. the identity of the nazi group in question was confirmed by a a news group and we will be joined by annd investigative reporter a minute who has been covering this story. but we are having kind of a
moment with this stuff right now. last night, we reported on the rash of bomb threats that have and terrorized historically black colleges and universities. over and over again over the past month. then first threats, against mo than half a dozen black colleges came in on january 4th. thenn this week on monday, another half dozen black colleges and universities got hit b with more bomb threats. then yesterday, on tuesday, at least 16 different black colleges and universities got more bomb threats. theyrs had to send out emergenc warnings and close their campuses and canceled class, ana they had to people to shelter in place, while bomb-sniffing dogs and law enforcement searched for the explosives. today, a law enforcement source tells multiple news organizations including nbcnf ns that the fbi has identified multipleth persons of interest thens investigation into these apparentlyth connected bomb threats topa historically black colleges and universities. we'll see if that information pans out, we'll if there are arrests to come, we'll also see
if thear threats stop or if the just keep coming. i'll tell you that the threats against black colleges and universities have been front so far.s in a few communities, in communities where the bomb threats haveco arrived, in plac like daytona beach florida, you can see on their front page, you can see the front page above the foldca headline there, also greenwood,e, mississippi, mississippi valley state university gets bomb threat. marshall texas, wily collegel outlined safety preparations amid hbcu bomb threats. but i got toep tell you, these e small toplaces, in places where these colleges are right there ince the community. the factin that more than two dozen hbcus in the united states of america have had bomb threats now, just in the past month, including 16 in one day, this week, kind of seems like it ought to be more of a national front pageto story since it doe appear tofr be a sustained coordinated effort to terrorize a hugeco number of some of the
most important blackge institutions in the united states. i don't know. itin seems like bigger than thi to me. i mentioned that daytona beach lorida is one of the places where the b local paper of the daytona beachlo news journal ha front paged the story and followed it closely. that is one of the communities that i have to tell youy. where that bomb threat to the local black college was phoned in by someone whok explicitly claime that he was a neo nazi and it was a neo nazi group that had planted the bombing on campus. same thing in arkansas. thesa guy who phoned in bomb threats in arkansas that he was a neo nazi and a neo nazi had planted c-4 all over the campuses and blow the places up. like we don't have enough going on in the country right now to have to be dealing with this outbreak of nazis everywhere, kind of a theme right now, it seems to be kind of a lot of going on, i did mention daytona beach there,th elsewher in florida,id this was suburban orlando, this weekend, a nazi
group, flying swastikas, holding signs about how the jews are behind it all. berating people in suburban orlando and screaming about the jews and hile hitler from the side of the road. at one point, a young man, a student at the university of florida and driving by and according to reporting from fox 35 in orlando, the nazi demonstrators sawo, an israeli flag icon that he had on the license plate frame and grabbed him and punched him and kinged him and pepper sprayed him and spit in his face. the young man spoke with fox 35 about the attack and being the descendant of holocaust survivors. the local orange county sheriff insu florida has now told local reporters he expects that there will be charges filed against those nazis who beat up that jewish student as part of the road side demonstration in orlando. the sheriff said those charges
will bela forthcoming but as of this point we know of no arrests and no charges but i'll tell you have that neo nazi demonstration in orlando on saturday, where a jewish student got beat up, the very nextje day, another group neo nazis turned up on a highway overpass over the interstate in orlando over i-4 and lots of confident sounding reporting immediately thereafter that the nazis who did this demonstration with their swastikas and anti-semitic signsd and let's brandon antijoe biden signs, too,br lots of confident soundi reporting after this happened thisg weekend that you know, don't worry, they'll get them, it's illegal to hang a sign on an t overpass like that in flora so definitely those guys got in trouble for that.el well, thatot confidence may hav been misplaced. theve orlando sentinel reportin today that while police did respond to the scene of those nazis with their swastika banners on that overpass, police made no arrests. they let the nazis all leave under their own recognizance.
how's things going in florida these w'days? in addition to this rash of nazi incidents, in addition to the nazi incidents themselves, it's kind of a follow-on scandal that is now simmering in florida involving florida's republican governor ron desantis. when the nazi group showed up in central florida on saturday, right,ce screaming anti-semitic abuse of people and beating up at least p one jewish passer-by and then the nazis showed up the following day in thisth overpas as well. and this was upsetting right in central florida and local and state leader, democrat and republican, they all rushed to condemn the nazis, one by one, the local mayor, the sheriff, members of congress, florida's republican u.s. senator rick scott,na they all volunteered themselves, they all came forward andnt condemned the eves in no uncertain terms. but from the governor, it's been a little weird. the only initial response from florida'se republican governor ronor desantis was this tweet fm his press secretary saying quote, do we each know if they
are -- even know if they are nazis? yeah, they volunteered that they are. and alsos? the swastika banners helpar with that. she's since deleteds that twee. you will be happy to know that after that wobbly start to this whole crisis governor desantis did finally get around to addressing the nazis in orlando issue. here's what he said. >> please rond to the nazi demonstration in orlando over the weekend. why you feel hate groups would feel comfortable -- >> so what i'm going to say is these people -- >> i'm just going to stop that there for a second and what i'm going to say is these people -- you can sort of guess where he's going, right? whatue i'm going to say is thes people, what do you think he is going to say next, whatop i am going to say is these people -- these neo nazi hate groups, they in florida, no placeac in florida, i condemn tm in the strongest terms, you figure that's where he is going
say, you figure that's where he is going to go with that statement, because that is the easiest most straightforward question in american politician can get, please respond to the nazis. right? that's like a long slow softball right over the flate. there is only one right answer to that and you shouldn't have to memorize it. it's an easy one. please respond to the nazis. that's what ron desantis was asked. what i amis going to say to the people -- what do you think he sayso next? >> so what i'm going to say is these people, these democrats who were trying to use this as some sort of political issue, to try to smear me, as if i had something to do with m it, we'r not playing their game. >> not going to play their game of condemning nazis? because that's a democrat game that you don't want to get dragged into to muddy yourself? i'm not kidding when i tell you
that florida's governor ron desantis his answer continued for another two and a half minutes in which he talked about joer biden, and inflation, and immigration, and crime, even talked about airbnb, but he never actually got around to condemning the nazis. today, here's something new. debra lipstadt, a holocaust historian, one of the most cited, mostca revered skol efrs the holocaust in the whole world, president biden nominated her for an important job in the u.s. government, he nominated her to be the u.s. government special envoy on anti-semitism, this was not a job created by her, this is not a job that was created by biden, it was created int the u.s. government nearly0 years ago in the george w. bush administration and it is an important job, come with the rank of ambassador and a absorb that requires senate confirmation. for more than six months republicanco senators have refud to allow deborah lipstadt's
nomination to be considered. they have a hold on the nomination. they won't let anybody fill that job. they won't hold l hearings abou putting her in the job. why? why? i mean i don't know any urgency around this issue at all in our countryme right now?co republican senators did finally relent today, and allowed at last that they will hold the confirmation hearing. the anti-semitism envoy position. today they finally allowed after holding it up for more than six months. all it took was, in the past week, a bunch of neo nazi banners flying over the interstate in florida, more neo nazisa, beating up and spittingn and pepper spraying a jewish student because they were in the middle of screaming heil hitler on the side of the road when they saw a star of david on his car. the hours long hostage standoff with the rabbi and parishioners held at gunpoint while a lunatic
rantednt and raved how the jews control everything an armada about dumping nazis, heil boston coming on public transportation in bostonmi and terrorize two doctors whose namesin and photo they put on the flyers to accuse them and their hospital of killing white people. after their let's go brandon hero got up his rally the week before to say the hospitals are killing white people now,ek it'a disgrace,ki we got to do somethg about it. that'sce all it took. apparently that's all it took to get her a confirmation hearing date. maybe now theti republican senatorsda on the u.s. foreign relations,s. u.s. senate foreig relations committeere have seen enoughre to maybe consider the nomination for this envoy position. youna think? you think there's been enough? or do we want to wait for more? because the way things are going, i am going to bet there is going to be more. not just in the south, not just in florida, it will be in new
england, it will be in california, it will be all over. we're having a problem with this as a country right now. how are we dealing with it? part of the way we are dealing with it is by good investigative reporting. joining us now is philip martin, a senior investigative reporter for gvh news in boston. mr. martin, it is a pleasure to have you us with tonight. thank you very much. >> thank you. much appreciated. >> let me ask if there is anything else that you've been able to report out about this disturbing demonstration, this group that showed up at the hospital in boston, is there anything that you can tell us about the size of this group, the other kind of stuff that they've been doing? >> we can talk about the size, to some degree, your summary by the way was excellent. the size, this has always been a minute and fringe organization, but right now, they're part of you see as the mainstreaming of extremism. this is a fringe group that has suddenly attracted new members,
we know that because the antidefamation league of new england has been counting them and said that the demonstration outside of the brigham and women's hospital, that you pointed out, was larger than most of their demonstrations. most occasions they might attract four or five people and this time they have attracted about two dozen people. that is still small when we talk about organizations, but as far as an extreme right neo nazi organization, it's considered significant. >> one of the things that i thought was really interesting about your reporting, philip, was to context ulgize this, over time, this is not the first time these doctors have been targeted, including by name and this case, very disturbing, their photos distributed, right, at their place of work and also at the same time the hospital has been target the. i was interested in the context of the scholarly work they've done, some of the pioneering
research thosee doctors took pt inri was about heart failure, patients with heart failure have better outcomes in the cardiologyti unit rather than treated in general medicine. these doctorsra were among a research team that found that things being equal, black and latino patients with heart failure were lessan likely to b put in the cardiology unit. and that's where you get better outcomes. there's g a really specific kin of racial health disparity that they identified, that they proved, and that they've since beenat trying to fix. i just want to make sure that i understandt that, that right, that's the first thing i had known about the link between those doctors and research in your reporting and is that the way they're being targeted for that kind of work? >> that's right. what you and me, many other, most people we call striving for equity and equality in medicine, trying to get past the legacy of what harry washington called medical apartheid, to try to
createei justice within the medical field, they've identifiedme a specific problem is patients, as pointed out, that black, latino, latinx patients were not receiving the same quality of care and therefore they want to level the playing field within thet hospital t system. described by neo nazis who are essentially echoing others, such as donald trump, i'm afraid, that has been described as preferential treatment and anti-white. they are indeed claiming a sentiment that is widespread on social media, where the medical equity in the context ofer medicine and many other things for thatdi matter, it is constrd as anti-white. it's a very insidious type of propaganda,ou that we're hearin now, that goes with the
trend and it has seeped, not seeped, it has flooded into the mainstream. and that's what we're dealing with right now, rachel. >> mr. martin, i sort of tried to put this in context a little medical rms of the community in boston. because boston has a big powerful health care community, it is some of the best hospitals inni the world, they do attract medical talent from all overor e world, now that this harassment and targeted harassment of individualsm doctors and to a certain degree individual hospitals has reached this level of scariness and frankly to my eyes disgusting levels, is there any sign that these doctors, who have been personally targeted and terrorized like this, and the hospital, too,an are they getting support? are they getting backup from the broader end, as i say, powerful influential medical community in boston andin around new england?
>> to a large degree, yes. the american medical association, for example, ama, traditionally conserve tive, not only known for being within the racial progress vanguard if you will, their equity efforts are led by a doctor who has done quite a bit of, aletha maybank, who has been working tirelessly to basically create equity, as the chief equity officer for the medical association. they introduced a plan, to attack structural racism, within the medical field, and particularly within the ama. and these doctors in boston also received support from fellow doctors within the teaching hospitals, but specifically at harvard medical school. perhaps not as robust as they should be. andpe they're working on that. they recognize that their
internal problems within the organization and they're basically zeroing in on that, it's thero reason also why this report today, the report that youre referenced, we focused ye atre the top, yes, on the neo naziss, demonstrating and threatening these doctors, but weat also zero in on their research. very important. and that research is in fact receiving support around the country, doctors like menetia sharma in california, and equity networks of various sorts, equal access, various grass roots and progressive organizations that arean targeting the causes of inequality and injustice within the medical field. >> part of it is being targeted and getting back up and getting defense when that happens and part of it is sticking to your guns and not being intimidated out ofns doing this work no matr what anybody else tries to make it into. philipe martin, senior
investigative reporter for gvh news in boston, thank you for your work and thank you for helping us understand it tonight, i appreciate it sir. >>ni rachel, thank you. thank you for having me on. much more ahead tonight, stay with us. for having me on. much more ahead tonight, much more ahead tonight, stay with us and now, save 50% on the sleep number 360 limited edition smart bed. plus, 0% interest for 24 months. only for a limited time. do you uggle to fall asleep and stay asleep? qunol sleep formula combines 5 key nutrients that can help you fall asleep faster, stay asleep longer, and wake up refreshed. the brand i trust is qunol.
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interesting breaking news tonight from "the new york times," on a story that we've been covering here aggressively over the past few week, the story of republicans in a number of states forging paperwork to try to cast fake votes in the electoral college for donald trump. you can see in the headline here on the story that broke just as we were getting on the air, memos show roots of trump's focus on january 6th and alternate electors. here's the lead. quote, 15 days after election day in 2020, a lawyer for the trump campaign in wisconsin referred a memo setting out what became the rationale for an aush dacious strategy to put in place alternate slight slates of electors in states where trump was trying to overturn his loss. the memo may not be the first
time that lawyers and allies of dr. plump had weighed the possibility of naming their own electors in the hopes that they would eventually succeed in the battleground states and baselessly asserting widespread fraud. but the november 18th memo, and another one, three weeks later, they are among the earliest known efforts to put on paper proposals for preparing alternate electors. it helped to shape a crucial strategy that trump embraced with profound consequences for himself and the nation. so we have been covering for weeks now, on this show, the evolving understanding of this theme by trump and friends, to falsify the election results, and try to keep trump in power even though he lost. and part of that is this thing that is emerging with more and more clarity all the time, part of the scheme was to send fake slates of electors to congress.
pro-trump republicans in at least five states that biden won, they got together and created and signed, forged fraudulent certificates declaring themselves to be the real true presidential electors for their states. that was in five states and two other states, republicans created and sent these certificates in, but they included language saying they were just a backup, in case trump prevailed in his lawsuits to try to overturn the election and five said they were the real electors and they really weren't the real electors. they didn't keep it secret that they were doing this at this time but these gatherings and these documents were largely written off as a sort of, you know, cookie trump supporters engaging in wishful fulfillment fantasies or at least shenanigans and a few weeks ago we started to understand this was a serious and coordinated effort across many states, the trump campaign coordinated the effort, in order to get these fraudulent slates of electors in front of vice president mike pence on january 6th, as part of
an effort to pressure mike pence to use the fake trump elector slates, to count the fake electors instead of the real ones, to overturn biden's election and to declare that trump had won. so we knew that it happened at the time. we didn't understand that it was coordinated. or how it fit into a larger more serious scheme but that has been evolving over the last few weeks. all the while the sort of origins of the scheme, who came up with the idea, how it was communicated to the people on the ground, to these republicans who gathered and forged these documents and then got them to the right places at the right time, they sort of command and control of this conspiracy has all been a little murky. these new memos published tonight by "the new york times" shed some light on that murk, they shet shed some light from how it came together, november 15th, after the election, a memo written to a trump campaign
lawyer in wisconsin to another lawyer he apparently consulted for advice, that first memo essentially lays the ground work for the scheme, the date we need to be focused on january 6th. that's our last chance to overturn biden's win in wisconsin but if we're going to do that, a slate of trump electors from wisconsin needs to meet on december 14th in the wisconsin state capitol and they need to cast their supposed votes for trump because that's what the law would require real electors to do, had trump won, if their electoral college votes were going to be seen as valid. so that's the memo that happens 15 days afrts election, november 18th. then there's a second memo three weeks later, between the same two lawyers, that lays out not just what the trump electors fake trump electors in wisconsin would have to do, but what they would have to do in several states that biden won that trump was trying to nevertheless overturn. this was less than a week before december 14th, which is the date where presidential elector does have to cast their votes, and
that second memo, laid out in detail what the fake trump electors would have to do, in each state, step by step, in order to have their forgeries appear valid and pseudo legal under the law. we learned from the second memo why perhaps so many of the fake electors were so insistent on getting inside state capitols. remember the fake trump electors in michigan, pounding on the door and trying to talk their way past the state police, because they wanted to get inside the fake capitol building and insisting they were the real electors and they had to get inside. apparently in michigan, and in several other states, electors are required to cast their votes inside the capitol, in order to be considered valid. in michigan, they did not get in. but in other states, they did, the trump campaign was reportedly involved in booking space inside state capitols for these groups of fake electors. that second memo, december 9th memo lace out exactly how the certificates needed to be signed, where the certificates needed to sent, to the national archives and the senate and that
may explain why all of those electors knew exactly what their certificates should look like and where they should sign and where they needed to send them. somebody gave them all the same advice for exactly how to do this. it seems like every time we think we know just how advanced and serious the planning for this part of the plot was, new evidence emerges that shows the plot to be even closer to being realized than we thought. and more tightly connected to the former president and his campaign than we previously might have imagined. january 6th investigation has reportedly turned to this part of the plot as a key part of their ongoing investigation, a member of that investigation is going to join us here live next stay with us. estigation is going to join us here live next stay with us
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ms. adams tendencies that throughout their marriage, the defendant would often brandish firearms in the family home to control her behavior and she testified that the defendant was physically abusing his children. according to ms. adams during the time they were married, elaborate escape tunnels in the couple's backyard, hid unregistered cars in the woods and purchased hundreds of dollars of razor wire, which the defendant intended to install around the perimeter of the property, concealed from view, quote, in case the feds ever came to his door. ms. adams testified that she fear force her safety and the safety of her six children, should the defendant be released. that is what ms. adams testified about her estranged husband. the judge agreed that that was not a portrait of a man who should be trusted to be let out on bail. based in large part on the scary testimony from the defendant's estranged wife, the judge ruled that the defendant wouldn't get bail, we have to stay in jail awaiting trial, and he's charged
with something quite serious, the defendant described here is the leader of the right wing pseudo para-military organization called the oath keepers, arrested last month on seditious conspiracy for his role in helping orchestrate the attack on the capitol on january 6th. still in jail. awaiting trial. and so it was from jail today that this guy gave his deposition to the january 6th investigation in congress. according to mr. rhodes' attorney, he refused to answer some of the investigators' questions by pleading the fifth amendment, by invoking his right to not self incriminate but the lawyer says he answered some of the committee's questions and the testimony lasted six hours. the other person who spook to the january 6th investigation is jeffery clark, not in jail,'s the trump justice department official who was spearheading the effort within the trump administration to try to use the u.s. justice department as part of the overthrow the government
plot. use the justice department to pressure individual states that they should flip or at least sort of rescind the certification of they're election results in states that biden won. donald trump wanted to install jeff clark as the attorney general, as the head of the justice department, so he could carry out that scheme, that never came to pass. jeff clark is as important a person for the january 6th investigation to talk to as anyone, as they try to get to the bottom of trump's efforts to overthrow the government, and prevent the next president from taking office. investigators first tried to interview jeffrey clark last year, he refused to answer their questions, refused to answer, refused to give any substantive answers to basically any line of questioning. the investigation then moved to hold mr. clark in contempt, but they paused those proceedings, after jeff clark said he intended to also plead the fifth. just like the oath keepers guy. he said he intended to assert his fifth amendment rights against self-incrimination.
the investigators planned to give him back a second time to give him a chance to plead the fifth, that was postponed several times due to medical reasons on jeff clark's part but today he showed up and seen entering the capitol today to meet with the january 6th investigation, everyone else wearing a mask but not him. he was there, not long, like i said, stuart rhodes from jail mostly taking the fifth was testifying six hours and jeff clark was there not even two hours. led to speculation that he used most if not all of that time just pleading the fifth
but we don't know. joining us now is maryland congressman jamie raskin a member of the january 6th investigation in congress. congressman, thank you for being here today. thank you. >> hi, rachel, good to see you. all i know about mr. rhodes and mr. clark testifying today is from public reporting which i mostly just summarized. is there anything that you can add to that you're able to tell us about that testimony today?
>> well, not in specific detail but i can report to you that the committee is making remarkable progress, given donald trump's continuing obstructionism and encouragement of others not to participate. we're really filling in the picture of what happened in the events leading up to january 6th, on the day itself, and we're looking at how all of these various actors were motivated and activated by trump to try to overthrow the election. >>
one of the things that has been reported this week, based on the financial filings that came in at the end of the quarter is that it appears that former president trump, his pac, sort of inexplicably dumped a million, mark meadows staff, it stands out as an expenditure because all of the other
expenditures are from the pac are $5,000, one $10,000 but here is a million to support mark meadows and his income. that maps awkwardly i think for those on the outside of the process to what we have seen from mr. meadows in terms of his original cooperation with the investigation and then his u-turn where he stopped providing information and ultimately not only refused to testify, was held in contempt and referred for prosecution but he himself wrote his own lawsuit against the committee. are you looking at a possibility of tampering with witnesses, to bribe or intimidate witnesses into not cooperating with your inquiry? >> it seems pretty clear to the members of the committee that donald trump perfected the art of dangling pardons in front of people who were in a position to give evidence about various crimes he was engaged in, and it does look like he's up to his old tricks again. that was quite a generous
contribution that he offered to mr. meadows' think tank, i think it was, and meadows is obviously in a position to report everything that donald trump was doing on that day. of course, he doesn't leave much to the imagination, rachel, because over the weekend, he was openly talking, trump pardoning january 6th criminals, so that was a message not just to the more than 700 people who essentially followed his exhortations and stormed the capitol, but also to people higher up in the ranks. he's basically saying stick with me, ride it all the way through the election, i'll get back in, and everything's going to be all right and it's an absolute scandal that there are still any self--respecting republican elected officials who are standing by him at this point. >> is that obstruction of justice when he did that? i mean those are ongoing
criminal prosecutions that the justice department is carrying out, as you said, more than 700 of them, this morning, on cnn, there was an interview with defense lawyer who is representing a number of defendants from the january 6th accused, and he said, flat out, oh, yeah, that offer from the president will absolutely change the course a lot of these prosecution, it will reduce the chance that these defendants will provide helpful information to the government, it will reduce the chance that they will try to enter into some sort of plea agreement, and compensation for their help with other prosecutions, it will increase the chance that they will insist on going to trial, because they will be expecting a get out of jail free card at the end of the day. is that obstruction, given that those are ongoing criminal proceedings? >> well, it certainly is in any moral or ethical or vernacular sense, it is obstructing justice. the problem with donald trump of course, is like ritchie rich of the comics, he's per mected the art of -- perfected the art of
saying something and not saying something and always being protected by his army of lawyers and the wealth that surrounds him. and by the way, if you look at the students of rhetoric, they will tell you that both saying something and then not saying something is a hallmark of fascist rhetoric, where you basically make your point, very fine people on both sides, and then you go on and said but i denounce racism so sending the mixed message and that's what he does also in terms of sending signals to people about what he's going to do, does anybody have any doubt that if god forbid he were to get back into office, that he would go ahead and pardon all of the january 6th insurrectionists and coup plotters? of course he would. so he's sending this signal, as to precisely what he would do. just as he said, you know, if you want to keep your country, you got to fight like hell, when fraud is involved, you're allowed to use separate rules, i mean this stuff is happening in
broad daylight, and i keep saying, if you rob the bank in broad daylight you're still robbing a bank, it can't be just because it is overt somehow you're not guilty of the offense. >> one last question for you, congressman, and i really appreciate your time tonight, we have heard, we particularly heard over the, before the holiday break, at the end of the year, that there would be open hearing, public hearings, held by the january 6th investigation, so that the public could hear from witnesses, could hear the testimony for themselves, and in fact, that these hears might be extensive. is that still the plan? is that still your expectation? and if so, do you have any guidance for us in terms of what we should expect in terms of timing? >> very much so. the only thing slowing us down of course is the foot dragging and the road blocks being put up by trump's immediate entourage, mark meadows, and steve bannon, and roger stone. you know, the people right on the inside, but we are putting
the story together, and you know, no one is more eager to get going with the hearings than we are. but we also want to be able to tell a complete story. these are not going to be fragmentary episodic hearings, a little bit here and a little bit here, we will tell a complete story, beginning middle and end to best explain to people what we think happened on jan ray 6th and the events leading up to it, and why it took place and what to do to prevent future political coups and insurrections leveled against our democracy. >> so we plan for it to be both fine grain and particular but also comprehensive. and i would believe, rachel, that it is going to pack a very serious punch when people put it together like that, just like it did during the impeachment trial. what rioters were doing to our officers. >> maryland congressman jamie
raskin who many other things is a member of the january 6th investigate. thank you as always. thank you for being here. >> thank you so much. i should also tell you that there is an absolutely incredible documentary that is going to air this weekend on msnbc that is about congressman raskin, i cannot recommend this highly enough, it is called loving the constitution. it is a fascinating illustration of this place in history that we are in right now, through the eyes of somebody with one of the most interesting vantage points there is. congressman raskin of course led the impeachment inquiry of trump for inciting the attack on the capitol, weeks after suffering unspeakable tragedy of losing his son tommy to suicide, and this portrait of congressman raskin and this time in american history is stunning. there is a lot to be gained from watching this thing. it is airing here on msnbc, 10:00 p.m. eastern on sunday night, you should plan now to watch it. 10:00 p.m. eastern sunday night. all right more ahead tonight. stay with us. day night.
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it was yesterday that we learned the new mexico senator has recently suffered a stroke, senator lujan checked himself into hospital in santa fe after he felt dizziness and fatigue thursday last week. doctors in santa fe then transferred him to albuquerque to the university of new mexico hospital, for further evaluation. a statement from his office at the time said that senator lujan was found to have suffered a stroke in the cerebellum, affecting his balance, as part of his treatment plan he subsequently underwent decompressive surgery to ease swelling. that means a serious stroke and urgent surgery because of it. the good news here is that the senator's office said from the beginning he is expected to make a full recovery. today we got a hopeful new update from two of his senior staff members. they say that senator lujan is actually expected to be back in the united states senate in four to six weeks. which means he could be back in the office come early march. and you know, god bless him. let it be so.
and in health terms everyone is pulling for senator lujan obviously. in political terms, his absence from the senate erases the democrats razor thin majority, and of course, as president biden prepares to nominate and try to confirm a new justice to the supreme court. but again, the news is hopeful. senator lujan is expected to have a full recovery and get back to the senate next month. let it be so. watch this space. nth. let it be so watch this space p longer, and wake up refreshed. the brand i trust is qunol.
that's going to do it for us tonight. i will see you again here from this same weird place tomorrow night. "way too early" is jonathan lemire is up next. breaking news overnight. as the u.s. military carries out its largest operation in syria in years. the question is, who was the target? and after placing u.s. forces on alert, the pentagon says the president will deploy about 3,000 troops to reinforce nato allies ahead of a possible russian invasion of ukraine. the question is, how long will the mission last? and thousands of flights grounded as a powerful winter storm moves across the country. with snow, sleet and freezing rain, the question is, how much damage and disruption will it cause? it's "way too early" for this.
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