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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  March 29, 2022 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT

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would have not have struck a jimmy kimmel in the same way. but i also don't know that a white comedian would be repeatedly attacking jada from the oscar stage. don't forget, this is chris rock's second time attacking jada. >> well we've got to go, i appreciate you brother, i am for both of them healing, and winning. that is my verdicts, thank you very much. that is tonight's read out, over to chris hayes right now. tonight on all in. who did the president call, and why did he call them? >> 1000 people attacked the capitol, right at that time, that there is this gap, who is he talking to? what is he doing? >> blockbuster new evidence on the january six committee, showing a missing record of white house phone calls, on the
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day of the insurrection. tonight, what we know about the disappearing records, and what they can tell us about criminal intent. plus, as the jimmy thomas scandal grows, new calls for recusal, and the resignation of a supreme court justice with senator elizabeth warren. when we really know about peace talks between russia and ukraine, and why the u.s. government remain skeptical. >> nobody should be fooling ourselves, by the kremlin is now recent claim that it was suddenly just reduce military attacks near kyiv, or any reports that is going to withdrawal its forces. >> when all in starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes, as the investigation at the former presidents attempted coup nears a crescendo, we are learning of what appears to be a massive and blatant cover. white house records from january 6th, that were turned over to the select committee investigating the attacks, show a gap in donald trump's phone
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logs of seven hours and 37 minutes. washington posed, and see as news room the actual documents, which raised a lot of questions, and robert costa explained further this morning. >> as chaos engulfed the capitol building on january 6th, president trump spoke repeatedly on the phone with allies and supporters, some of whom urged him to put an end to the violence. none of those calls are reflected in the 11 pages of those white house records, for january 6th, given to the house select committee. there is a massive seven hour and 37 minute gap in calls, from 11 to 17 am to 60 4:54 pm, which includes the most violent period of the attack. the committee is now investigating whether the president used a so-called burner or disposable phones, to avoid scrutiny of their calls during that time. >> now, those 11 pages of records include five pages of trump's official daily diary, detailing some of his movements and calls. and these six pages, called
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presidential call logs, the colleague includes information for the white house switchboard, and from the ex presidents aides like phone numbers, blacked out here, and the times and durations of calls. it shows a growing calls, placed by trump, this is the first one of the day at a 20 3 am to dance covina, and incoming calls for him including this one from steve biden and 8:37 am. log show -- and 11 people in the evening. but this is zero calls from outgoing or in going, from the end of the call from dave perdue of georgia, just quarter past -- to nearly 7 pm. when he asked the white house operator to call dance casino. that, of course, includes the time that donald trump is actually speaking at the stop the steal rally. but it also covers basically the entire insurrection. when trump supporters at his invitation march the capitol,
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till the building was finally cleared and secured. if you just step back for a second, it is just impossible to believe what those documents indicate and allege, that no one called donald trump, and he called no one, for more than seven hours, while on national television in front of the eyes of the nation, a violent mob besieged the capitol. of course, in fact, we know that's not true. because there has been extensive reporting on at least two conversations trump had during that time. one call that trump made to senator mike lee of utah, seeking to talk to senator tommy to reveal of alabama, and a call he -- kevin mccarthy. so, these records, the official white house records that were turned over to the january six committee, they are just preposterous on their face. last month, when msnbc news reported on the existence of this gap in the colleagues,
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they discuss the possible causes, it could be the result of trump's well-documented habits of his using his personal cell phones to communicate with his aides and associates. it is unclear whether it could be also be the result of incomplete or altered white house records. the washington post reports that the house panel is now investigating, whether trump communicated that day through back channels, phones of aids, or personal disposable phones, known as burner phones. in a statement, trump claimed to have no idea when a burner phone is. but quote, was known for using different phones when he was in the white house, according to people familiar with his activities. we know that, at least around january 6th, many people were trying to get messages to trump through his chief of staff mark meadows. documents that meadows turned over to the house committee, show that he received texts from dozens of people, including fox host sean hannity, his son donald trump jr., and as we have just recently learned, the wife of supreme justice clarence thomas. now, as we have talked about
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before, for years now. much of donald trump's habitual wrongdoing is not out in the open. in fact, we just saw a another example of that today, when trump called on russian president by vladimir putin, whose army he's marauding through the ukraine, killing ukrainians citizens by the thousands, calling on that man, viewed, rightly right now, as kind of a global villain. to do him a solid and and release dirt about his political opponent sons. today, he did that. hey vladimir, if you're not too busy, hook me up. the brazenness of donald trump's wrongdoing, along with the fact that he has no sense of writer, wrong deeply in his marrow. has actually perversely protected him. when he does something awful, his defenders have been able to say, look, he can't mean any harm, he's doing an openly. he doesn't hide anything, he doesn't even realize it's wrong. he really thought his phone
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call with ukrainian president zelenskyy back in 2019, shaken it down for dirt on a political opponent was perfectly legitimate. or when he told georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger, to just find 1100 thousand 780 votes. he really believe there was election fraud. but, when the seven hour and 30 minute gap in donald trump's phone records, on january 6th shows, is that there appears to be a real cover-up of who don't trump was talking to, while the mob was attacking in ransacking the capital. and when it cover-up shows, and this is key, is consciousness of guilt. consciousness of corrupt intent. donald trump and his allies, whether they removed calls from the logs, or made secret calls on burner phones, knew what they were doing was wrong, and try to hide it. simple as that. of course, the obvious comparison here, right, is the nixon case. the famous, infamous, 18 and a half minute gap, during the watergate investigation, taped
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recordings of president richard nixon's conversations, were key evidence that could prove whether nixon himself knew what's going on, and was involved in the wrongdoing. of course, they all knew this, they knew what they had done, and so they just, we'll, got rid of the evidence. >> the los angeles times, a high administration official today is saying that nixon -- erased an 18-minute segment of one of the watergate tapes. the administration officials whose name cannot be used, has told the times, that miss winds will testify in court tomorrow, that she accidentally erased the tape, which contained a conversation between the president and his once top aide hr holder in, a conversation about watergate. >> oh, whoops, would you look at that, managed to erase that watergate combo, my bad. of course, everybody flipped out when that happened, for the obvious reason, obviously, big arrow pointing to guilt. the investigation into how the tapes could be erased, produce
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the infamous image of what could be known as -- peddle recording, well reaching over for the phone. nearly 50 years later, we're in the midst of an investigation of another president, and another apparent cover-up. this comes just one day after a federal judge, looking at donald trump's plot to overturn a free and fair election, said the former president more likely than not committed a federal crime in trying to obstruct the congressional count of electoral college votes on january 6th. now, all this heightens the scrutiny on don't trump's coconspirators, and the criminal nature of what they appear to have done that. jacqui elementary is a washington post congressional correspondent, she's been reporting on the january six investigation, and she joins me now. i just want to start with the technical question. about these documents. right? these documents came from the national security archive, which turned them over to the investigators. but they are furnished to the
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national security archive, originally by the white house. they are what the white house gave them. what do we know about, basically, the chain of custody of these documents, and whether they are accurate or not? >> yes, chris, that's a really good place to start. you know, that is something that all reporters should be trying to verify right now. whether, or, and something that the house committee investigating the january six investigation, is also looking at, according to our reporting this morning from bob woodward, and bob costa, whether or not the committee is investigating a possible cover-up. meaning that, potentially, some of these calls that were made during this 457-minute gap, were potentially erased. that being said, you know, the documents would get archived by the archivist working in the white house, through the national archives and records administration, and nara with
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then be charged with properly archives in these documents, in a way that could be usable potentially by investigators if need be. and obviously, this court ruling, then handed over -- forcing nara to hand over these documents to the january six committee investigating the district insurrection. but, along the way, it is possible that potentially some of these calls, could have been scrubbed at the request of the president, if he made that request. >> right, so again, we have nothing confirming that, we just had the sort of facially unbelievable call record that we have, that's one possibility. the thing i'm stuck on here, right, is receiving the places that there isn't a gap, that there are going to incoming calls. we see people like steve bannon and dan scavino going through the official white house switchboard. the fact of the incoming calls seems to be significant. it's one thing if you say we're up to sketchiness, or is a weird situation, we're gonna go
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off line and use a burner phones. but no one calling into the president is a tougher sell, right? there is no incoming calls to the president while the mob is ransacking the capital and everyone unanimously agreed that he is the one person who can call them off. >> right, and we already know that the committee has collected other evidence showing that fox news, law makers, reporters in a dating white house staff, including white house chief of staff mark meadows with urgent and panicked text messages and calls to intervene with the president to get into put out a statement during that 187 minutes when the attack began, two when he finally issued a statement on twitter. so, this is, why though, the white house is -- sorry, the january six committee is also investigating whether or not the president or people around him used burner phones, disposable, phones or maybe used the phones of his
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aides, of people around him. i think you are right, there is a big question mark here as to, what about these incoming calls, there must have been people, like vice president mike pence who were actually in the capital at the time, in hiding as protesters and pro trump insurrectionists breached security, who are trying to reach the president as well to try to do something, to intervene. >> that's a great point. just a last point, to set the table here. the normal standard operating procedure, the switchboard is a real thing, a controls the communications of the president. and the vice president's summer, and wants to talk to the president urgently, it's like giving the president for the white house switchboard. it's not like you take out your iphone, and start texting some burner number the sub sea earlier. that would be the official barnacle, and it we have no reporting on that. jacqueline alemany, who's been doing great reporting on this, thank you very much.
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congressman elaine luria is a democrat from virginia, she serves on this like committee investigating the january 6th attack on the capitol, she joins me now. i guess i want to start by asking, how do you understand what's seems like this obviously implausible gap in the official records furnished by the white house? >> well chris, it's something that the committee received awhile back from the national archives, and it's always appeared very strange. especially with this reporting from different senators, other people, who have explicitly and publicly talked about the calls they have with the president during that time. it raises a lot of questions, and i think it's really easy to pivot back to the contempt hearing we had last night. because who is with the president during this time? dan scavino is there, by the presidents top side, during the events of january 6th. we need to understand what events happened that day. who can tell us? i said last night in my comments, what is he hiding? what is he trying to cover up? who is he trying to protect?
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so, your reference back to watergate about 50 years ago, the very infamous cover-up. this definitely has overtones of that. again, because there's really no explanation for the seven hours. and, if i was to go in further, we talked a lot in the committee about the 187 minutes, the three plus hours that this was happening on national tv, that the president sat and watched this, we understand that he was watching what was happening at the capitol. as someone who is a naval officer, so i spent my career before coming to congress, but this brings to me is this idea of dereliction of duty, the president has this duty to take care that the laws of the nation are enforcing carried out. and if i think about it, any officer in the military, the president commissions officers in the mid military. any officer in the military who sat and watched something like this, for three hours, and took no action, they would be court marshals. so, in my minds, president
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trump is a dereliction of duty. and if he was a military officer, he would be facing a court martial for that dereliction of duty, under these circumstances. so there are so many questions that the committee is trying to answer, that's why we need to hear from people like dance could be no, who we referred contemptuous on, because he decided that he's above the law, and he does want to talk to congress under subpoena. >> some context first could be another seems important, he was obviously at one point the presidents caddie, he then became his social media manager, obviously been a social media manager involves having access to the account of the president. and some close proximity of the phone you are using, or his phone. there is also a subpoena for his phone records, that he has been fighting very hard. illegal mystery of this anonymous objection to it, again on january 5th this year, when they personally identified a plaintive -- issue to verizon, by the special congressional committee, u.s. district chief judge barrel hollow said no, and scavino freefall the complaint
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under his name in the same case on friday. so the committee, not having access to an actual call logs, has gone about subpoenaing phone records, dance casinos fighting that. how important is that aspect of the investigation? >> well, all of these pieces, it's really important that we have them to put them together. to determine what was the web of communications that happened that day. so, it's not just dan scavino, but there's others who we think, and we understand through testimony, it hunter witnesses come talk to us, we know about other people come talk to the president that day. people who come talk to the chief of staff, mark meadows. and although the people have objected to coming before the committee to this point. we have a lot of information about the calls, the communications that happened that day, and this is yet another piece of painting that picture, of everything that went on, who he talked to, and ultimately, it isn't covering up? >> in the vote to refer contempt to the department of justice for these two witnesses,
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one of them being dance casino last night, attorney general merrick garland do your job, it's quite a striking moment. what did you mean by that? >> this is not the first time that the committee's come together, and referred contempt charges, it's been about three months since we are for those charges relative to mark meadows. you know, there is a constitutional duty to appear before a subpoena in congress. and, mr. meadows has claimed executive privilege, and all these other things, as has dan scavino another's. the truth is, there's a process for that. we have to come before the committee, you have to legitimately lay out those items that they believe are covered by privilege. and the committee will consider those things one by one. but just not appearing, and just essentially rejecting, or ignoring a subpoena from congress, it's against the law. that's why we were for contempt arduous, the department of justice did move for bannon, but they've been intransigent, they haven't moved yet, they haven't done anything for bannon. there are two new important
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witnesses here. it's not just me, others on the committee said the department of justice needs to move swiftly, and do their job, so that, you know, we can do our job and analyze this information as part of our investigation. >> all right, congressman elaine luria, who sits on the january six subcommittee, next, nice interview with senator elizabeth warren on her letter to the supreme court, calling for justice clarence thomas to recuse himself from any future january six cases. don't go anywhere, senator warren joins me right after this. e right afte this my eyes feel like a combo of stressed, dry and sandpaper. strypaper? why do we all put up with this? when there's biotrue hydration boost eye drops. biotrue uses naturally inspired ingredients like an electrolyte, antioxidant, even your tears' own moisturizer. and no preservatives. these ingredients are true to your eyes' biology. see? bio.true. this is the planning effect. if rayna's thinking about retirement,
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supreme court declined to hear appeal from pennsylvania republicans, who wanted to disqualify mail-in ballots from the 2020 presidential election, that arrived after the election, even though all the people had been told that that would count. at the time, three justices dissented from that state jim not to deal with the case, justice clarence thomas was one of them. he wrote an 11-page opinion, a
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refusal to hear the case it's inexplicable. a year later, in january 2022, the supreme court rejected donald trump's attempt to block white house records from being sent to the january six committee. records like those we are discussing early in the program. justice clarence thomas was the lone public dissenter in that order. part of the reason those cases are so relevant, at this moment, is because we now know the clarence thomas's wife, ginni, was essentially, an ally to the seditious conspiracy, to overthrow the 2020 election. not only did she openly admit to attending this stop the steal rally although legal in the sense of a first amendment, had a corrupt intent to overthrow an election, she said she left before fellow trump supporters stormed the capitol. the washington post reported that she repeatedly pressed mark meadows to pursue unrelenting efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election, in a series of urgent text exchanges in the critical weeks
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after the vote. so, in that most recent ruling from february 2022, when clarence thomas alone, argued against trump having to turn over those white house records, which included both colin visitor logs, handwritten notes from other files previously cut by senior trump's like chief of staff mark meadows, he was ruling on turning over a body of evidence, that very well could have included his wife's applauding. she was corresponding with major players in the white house like mark meadows. and he, in his official capacity is saying that, and that material should be given to the committee investigating the insurrection. pretty clear conflict. as, result a handful of house democrats including aoc of new york, have called for justice thomas to be resigned or impeach. 22 democrats led by elizabeth warren and camilla jayapal, said a --
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john roberts, to recuse himself from previous cases. and a quote, promptly were cues himself from any future supreme court cases, involving efforts to overturn the 2020 election, or the january 6th attack on the capitol. senator elizabeth warren of massachusetts, joins me now. senator, i want to start with an argument that i've heard republicans made, or others have made for the long career of judge clarence thomas, there is know that his wife is an activist, she worked with conservative groups, she was involved with a tea party. essentially, it's unfair to go after a justice for, whenever there purposes politics happen to be. she's an independent adult, she's gonna do it she wants, and this is democrats marking up the wrong tree. what is your response to that? >> well, i have two responses today. the first one is, no one's going after her for her political point of view. the question is, her participation in an insurrection. against the government of the united states of america.
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that is something that is appropriate to investigate. and, that then raises the question of conflict of interest for a sitting justice, to have anything to do with a case involving that insurrection. but, the second part i want to point out, is that we have all kinds of times when, if you are in a position of public authority, like a supreme court judge, or justice, then you do have to disclose certain information about your spouse, things that other folks out of the public wouldn't have to do. the specific example here, is that federal law requires that the spouses of the supreme court justices disclose payments, that they have received, something that clarence thomas and jenny thomas have failed to do in violation of law multiple times
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she received more than $680,000 in the heritage foundation, and yet somehow, the thomas is just barreled to report that. so i am sorry, i think the republicans are the ones or just trying to throw up some smoke, and hope people will start looking in some other direction, that is not going to happen. >> yeah, i have to say, the conflict here, particularly on the question of the records that issue, scenes about a direct as a conflict as you can get. if your ruling on whether your wife's texts, conceivably, might be made public, that's a pretty straightforward conflict, it would seem to me. i'm no law professor, x law professor, or senator. >> you don't have to be an ex law professor to figure that went out. and remember, the standard is conflict of interest, or appearance of a conflict, in a way that could undermine public
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confidence. because ultimately, that's what this is about. this is about the fact that a sitting justice, obviously, should not be macon rulings that could directly affect his spouse, because it's also about what it does for the rest of the public to say, wait a minute? what's going on there? for the rest of the public to see, that is sitting justice, very well maybe trying to protect a spouse, and since we don't know all the pieces to the puzzle yet, we are not quite sure all that he may be protecting espouse from. >> yeah, i just want to play white, again, where you and others have called for this. there has been, in some ways, i think a little bit of strange lack of outrage over this, because it seems like an incredibly incriminating set of facts on his face. but santa majority leader chuck schumer essentially echo this today. i want to tell you what he had to say. >> i do think he should recuse himself, the information we know right now, raises serious
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questions about how how close justice thomas and his wife worded the planning of the insurrection, and i'll answer both your questions. you are very clever. i think there should be a code of ethics for supreme court justices. >> on that last point, senator, there is a code of ethics for article three, appointees, lifetime confirms judicial judges. that i know, my wife clerk for federal judges, and it's important, if you're even a clerk, you're not given money to give candidates things like that. it gets it stops at the supreme court. that's my understanding like the supreme court, it is just do what you feel and kind of vibe out, and that does seem a little odd too. >> kind of. remember, there is federal law. it applies across the board. the strike is, there is enforcement again circuit court justice, -- immigration court justice,
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anyone who violates those rules. with the supreme court, it is basically, you guys will take care of yourselves on this, right? and this is why for years now, i have advanced legislation, i have argued publicly, that we need a set of enforceable ethics rules in the supreme court, as well as on the other courts. by the way, this should be about conflicts of interests, but also about things like supreme court justices should not be able to own individual stocks or trade in individual stocks. again, we know that the justices there have been instances where they have been deciding opinions, and they hold stock in the companies that will be affected. all of them presents a conflict, and undermining, public confidence in our court.
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it is time to say self policing is not working, we are going to put real rules in place, and we are going to have real enforcement of those rules. in the meantime, though, 22 of us have written a letter to justice roberts, and to justice thomas asking both for an explanation of how it is that justice thomas participated in a decision that is so clearly involving his own wife, and asking for a firm commitment that there will be no participation in anything that remotely bears on what happened on the january 6th insurrection going forward. >> and it seems likely that the court will have more opportunities for that based on the way things are going. senator elizabeth warren, thank you so much for your time tonight, i appreciate it. coming up, just how big of a legal red flag is the drop in the white house? we will check with someone who once served as associate white house counsel after this.
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unsel after this
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his public career, donald trump has dodged one legal bullet after another legal bullet. much of that has to do with the fact that he operates with a kind of almost organized crime mentality. he doesn't write things down, when he does he tears the paper up afterwards, so there is no record. he says things in public so he can possibly deny that what he
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did was wrong. this latest reporting for the washington post and cbs about the 457-minute gap in the official white house phone records, it is a really big deal. there is a reason it was a big deal over president richard nixon won just 18.5 minutes of gaps were found in his secret white house recordings. it started to look like an attempted cover-up. this gap in donald trump's phone records are starting to appear that way to. and boston -- he is not the executive director of protective democracy. dedicated to fighting efforts to undermine democracy. he joins me now. ian bassin, first of all, let me ask you as someone who worked in the white house, the white house that was extremely almost neurotic-less sensitive about compliance, compared to the guy who came afterwards, your reaction to this record, just the possibility of it. >> look, there is no way that
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that happens without somebody directing it to happen. there is an office outside of the oval office called oval office operations with a whole set of staffers whose tool job it is to record everything the president does, every call he makes, every call coming in, make sure it is preserved, complies the presidential records act. there is no way that something like this happens accidentally, which means multiple people were involved. in some, what appears to be, cover up of probably one of the biggest crime is ever attempted in the history of the country. >> on that point, we have now a judge's ruling, a federal judge, in the matter of john eastman trying to basically shield his records from the committee. claiming privilege, right? i am a lawyer, this is my client, you can't get the stuff, it is privilege, there is what is called a crime, fraud exception to privilege, whereas if you and your lawyer essentially are conspiring to commit a crime together, you do not get to smuggle that in under privilege. the department of justice filed a brief saying, we think this
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fits under crime frog exception here. a federal judge says there is enough that we know already that it is possible more than likely than not, the president committed a crime, and you cannot use privilege. and i feel like that also has been quite resonated to the degree it should given the significance of this determination. >> yes. it is more than that. first off, it should have let newspapers yesterday that a federal judge says it is more likely than not that the former president committed multiple felonies and attempting to overturn the 2020 election. but that is not the only judge who has read in like that. so we represent with our co-counsel, several capitol police officers, in a case accusing the president of conspiring to lead up to the events january six. and that case out of washington d.c., this judge ruled that the case can proceed, and rejected the former presidents motion to dismiss the case. you now have two cases in which federal judges have said there
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are grounds to continue to look into whether the president bears some liability for the events of january six, and now you have the revelation of this of an hour and 37 minute gap. as you alluded to in your opening monologue, the evidence of corrupt intent. the attorney general has said that the department of justice will follow the facts wherever they lead, no matter the position of the person they might implicate. and here is the ground truth. if federal judges had said about any other americana what's judge carter and judge mehta have now written about a former president, you bet your tail that american would be under investigation by the department of justice. >> that is a great point. we should also note the crime, the felony here of a sort of obstructing of congressional proceeding, it is a crime that has been charged. there are people who went to jail for this. there are people who plead for it. this isn't just something on the books. in the context of january 6th,
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it is like an active, live, part of the criminal code that has been used for people who broke into the top middle. >> here is the thing, you started with this, mob bosses from alcohol into the original don, they invaded accountability for years. they tampered with juries, if they could dangle pardons, i bet they would have done that. but eventually, the law catches up with all of them, because no one is tough on forever, not even the newest don. i think that isn't only something the former president should be minding, but all of his aides and allies who enabled him, they should be thinking about that as well. because this is not just about the past, this is about the future. this is about what is going to happen in 2024, and people need to know that in this country, there is accountability if you break the law. >> ian bassin, as always, thank you sir. >> thank you. >> russian forces have still
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been unable to achieve one of their key objections, capturing the capital city of kyiv. tonight, russia claims it will scale back attacks near the city, the pentagon says we should not be fooled by what looks like a de-escalation. the latest in ukraine, next. n ukraine, next. ♪ ♪
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since suzie's got goals, she'll want a plan to reach them. so she'll get some help from fidelity, and she'll feel so good about her plan, she can focus on living it. that's the planning effect, from fidelity. the russian troops have stopped short of entering kyiv, but they're taking cover inside the homes of residents from afar -- [interpreter] i don't even know how to describe this, he says, i don't have the words. he pauses, he can't quite find stronger phrases, for what his family is going through right now. there is no humanity here.
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this is not war with some army, he says, this is war with humans, just eliminating other humans. this is an atrocity for which no judge would any find any justification. it is madness he says. >> it's been 34 days since russia invaded ukraine. and while russian forces, are still, as you say, destroying ukrainian cities and villages, apartment, buildings and homes, there's a potential sign of progress today. russia announced it will soon fundamentally scaled back military operations around the ukrainian capital, kyiv, along with the northern city of chernihiv. the kremlin saying its main goal now is gaining control of the mostly russian speaking donbas region, in eastern ukraine. he was officials were wary of the announcement, warning that it is not necessarily a cease-fire or a retreat, buttery positioning of the troops. some officials expect a new offensive against ukrainian forces. on sunday, as the fighting around give noticeably slowed,
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ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy, held a 90 minute video call with independent russian journalists. he discussed the status of the war, peace negotiations, and said he's willing to discuss ukrainian neutrality in return for peace. now, ordinary russians citizens would not have seen president zelenskyy's direct overture. the washington post reported that the kremlin's communications regulator an internet sensor, notified russian news outlets that the requirement of -- right now, we have no idea what kind of settlement russia would accept. but ukrainian negotiators say they are determined to keep the talks on track, while enlisting
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western governments to keep the pressure on moscow. i'm member of the ukrainian parliament who's doing this just now, joins me next. just now, joins me next. um, she's eating the rocket. ♪♪ lunchables! built to be eaten.
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nina's got a lot of ideas for the future. and since anyone can create a free plan at fidelity, nina has a plan based on what matters most to her. and she can simply focus on right now. that's the planning effect. from fidelity.
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centuries ago, native californians and she can simply focus on right now. thrived on this land. now, we share a destiny with all californians. when voters granted our sovereign nations exclusive gaming rights, it advanced self-sufficiency and created thousands of good jobs. but now, out of state corporations are coming to california. their online sports betting initiative would break the promise between us. it's bad for tribes and all californians. join us. protect the promise. what is your view of russia's
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announcement today, that it will, quote, fundamentally scale back its military operations near kyiv, and another northern city in ukraine? do you see this as, possibly, the war beginning to come to an end? or do you see this as russia trying to buy time, and to
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recalibrate for a new military effort? >> we will see. i don't read anything into it, until i see what their actions are. we will see if they follow through on what they're suggesting. >> president biden, echoing other western leaders saying they're skeptical of russian promises to pull back on the assaults. i'm joined now by yevheniya kravchuk, she's a member of the ukrainian parliament, her husband is fighting russian forces in ukraine, trying to get u.s. lawmakers to increase the pressure on russia. i wonder if you could start with your sense, in the ukrainian government about not just the announcement that russia made, but also the domestic propaganda in the sort of briefing that russian military leaders gave, turning emphasis away from taking kyiv, or taking ukraine, and towards the donbas, if that is significant from your point of view. >> good evening, thank you for
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having me, i'm not sure if i'm allowed to use this word, but russians got their butts kicked, in the kyiv region. so that's how they are trying to save their faces, and say they are withdrawing troops. we think it could be some sort of misleading of our military. so they would think that he is safe, and they would pull out the troops from this region, of a group, and russians come back. we are not naive. we did not believe russians, did not believe putin, but we do believe and more weapons for ukraine. we do believe in air defense systems, more stingers, more artillery, more tanks. and that's what we've been talking to our counterparts on capitol hill today. we had a very good meeting with congressman, from both parties,
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and that is ukraine has united american people, and has united both parties. and we really are thankful for that, and we really value that. >> when you say four more weapons, what are the bottlenecks now in terms of that? is it a supply issue,. is it just an him out issue,. is it a transfer issue in terms of resupply in armaments to ukrainian army? >> i really do believe that administration means, it after announcement of these additional money that could be spent on weapons and weapons shipped? we actually ask members of congress to put some pressure, to check if it's working out. because there's no time for bureaucracy. you can't do the process, the work in process during the state of war, as it was the peaceful protest. it has to be three times faster. because, we don't need the
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situation when it's too late. >> there are some. and i think you're right that there is a broad consensus across both parties, and the american public, about supporting ukrainians in their fight. there are some, i've seen, have worried and question about supplying arms to produce a sort of extended stalemate, a brutal extended stalemate. we saw what happened, of course, in syria, over the course of that very long war, and how brutal it was. what do you say to those who worry that, in supplying the ukrainian army, you will extend the horrible mayhem, that this war has already visited on your country in the first three or four days? >> you know, different intelligence services, american as well, said that ukraine would fall in two weeks. but our army actually proved that it's much tougher than everyone thought. and because of the high morale, and because we wanted our soil defended. that's actually the core of american, freedom, brave, free
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choice. that's what we are doing in ukraine right now. and that's why i think americans support us, because they sort of see themselves in us, right now. -- but you can't go to your enemy with their hands. but, we already prove that we can stand, we can counterattack, but we would need these supplies to finish the job. because, for us, the end of this war's victory. because, putin doesn't see any other choice than to erase ukraine for the face of the earth. so, we would need this backup from america, to begin, with and at the most. because you are the leaders of the free world, who else would help us on a bigger scale than america? so, i would just put it this way, it's not a war between russia and ukraine, it's actually a war between civilized world, and the
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terrorist state. and if putin does have a possibility to win in ukraine, which i personally do not believe in, if he has this possibility, he will not stop, he will go to another country, pushing and more and more. i read this propaganda news, and what they say, trying to humiliate the western world, trying to say that that we can't backup ukraine, we will invade, and do whatever we want. that can't be possible in civilized world in the 21st century, for some person to do whatever he wants. >> yevheniya kravchuk thank you very much for a time tonight, i really appreciate you making time for us. >> thank you for having me. >> that is all in on this tuesday night, the rachel maddow show with ali velshi starts now, good evening ali. >> good evening, i did chance to talk to her in warsaw, she was on her way to the united states, and it was a remarkable sa