tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC April 20, 2022 12:00am-1:00am PDT
off the air tonight. and on that note, i wish you a good night from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thank you for staying up late see you at the end of tomorrow. end of tomorrow. tonight on all in, a federal judge appointed by twice impeached president deemed unqualified by the bar association overrules the center for disease control. so what happens now that the mask mandate for public transit is lifted? then as putin's war enters a new phase and the u.s. since more heavy weapons former ambassador marie yavanovich on how we got here. >> i really hope that you and president putin get together and can solve your problem. that would be a tremendous achievement. >> plus, bombshell text messages from the criminal conspiracy trial of an oath keeper. why are they so concerned about protecting donald trump's favorite doctor turned member of congress?
>> is there anything your keeping from us for privacy reasons? >> i can promise you there's absolutely nothing that i'm withholding from this. >> all in starts right now. good evening everyone. from new york, i'm -- in for chris hayes. after leveling out following the omicron wave covid cases are starting to take back up across united states infected new york times is reporting that the u.s. is averaging nearly 40,000 daily cases. and yet, a federal judge just issued massive, a massive blow to basic public health measures across this country. u.s. district judge catherine campbell myself has overturned a federal mask mandate for airplanes and other forms of transportation. she said that the cdc oversteps its boundaries by justifying the mask mandate is a form of quote sanitation. and while her decision has been criticized by some legal observers who point out that
masks do in fact sanitize the area around them by stopping the spread of the virus, and by stopping the transmission of droplets, it is nevertheless now in effect across this country. and tonight we are learning the department of justice may appeal the ruling if the cdc thinks extending the ban is necessary. but as of right now, major airlines like delta, jetblue, united, american and southwest, they've all basically lifted their mask requirements to travel and in some cases, they actually announced the change while passengers were already seated. >> i just checked with company and the company decision is that delta position's mask will be optional this evening for all crew and mass crew as well. -- for those who want to wear masks please -- optional and that way we can alleviate any stress and discomfort. thank you very much. [applause] >> so let's be clear
about this. this decision will have a massive ramifications for public health and the spread of covid in this country. less than a week ago, the cdc was arguing to keep the travel mask requirements in place because the facts are pretty clear. masks do work. they're effective at slowing the spread of covid, especially in an enclosed area like a bus or even an airplane. and late last year, the largest randomized study of its kind, a joint effort between yale university and stanford and uc berkeley, found that increased mask-wearing led to increase production to the number of people with covid-19 based on symptom reporting and antibody testing. but one federal judge can now overturn the will of the health
experts in this country who are actually tasked with keeping us healthy in the middle of a pandemic. and why? because that judge who is rated unqualified to be a judge has the sole power to loosely ordinarily interpret the word sanitation. and change the rules for hundreds of millions of americans. and the person responsible for all of this is u.s. district judge catherine kimble myself, a former clerk for justice to clarence thomas who was appointed by another than donald trump. now even though judge myself was just 33 years old lifetime appointment even though she was determined not qualified for the american bar association she nonetheless passion formation in the senate as you probably gusted along a party line vote. she was just one of hundreds of judges that were appointed by donald trump. young, ideological conservatives who will now shape the judiciary for generations to come. this was the deal, with the devil that mitch mcconnell and other republicans made wind all trump got elected. they basically agreed to
blindly support this man who is obviously unfit to serve. even though many of them privately disliked him. and in exchange for the ability to churn out as many judicial nominations as possible. and guess what? that bargain paid off because trump's judges are already reshaping the traditional and -scape in this country. they are issuing rulings that are affecting the lives of millions of americans. like a 2021 decision undermining the fair housing act which exist to fight housing discrimination for people of color. there was a notorious case, the majority which included five trump appointed judges who basically ruled against a black plaintive. who argued, this plaintive argue that his landlord refused to act when his neighbor began a campaign of racialized terror against him. quote, francis said the landlord did nothing while his neighbor harassed him several times for being black, including with racial insults and a death threat. and trump appointed judges also a ruling in 2020 will return to florida cities bans on so-called conversion therapy for lgbtq children. councillor's attempts to change someone's sexuality or gender identity. even though, and let's be clear about, it even though the american psychological association deemed the practice not ethically permissible. and then there is of course the supreme court, where you have
three trump appointed justices. neil gorsuch, brett kavanaugh, amy coney barrett, the letter to replacing justices anthony kennedy and ruth bader ginsburg. a moderate and liberal on so-called conversion therapy for lgbtq children. councillor's attempts to change someone's sexuality or gender identity. even though, and let's be clear about, it even though the american psychological association deemed the practice not ethically permissible. and then there is of course the supreme court, where you have three trump appointed justices. neil gorsuch, brett kavanaugh, amy coney barrett, the latter to replacing justices anthony kennedy and ruth bader ginsburg. a moderate and liberal respectively. and with those appointments, dramatically altering at the ideological makeup of the court in a more conservative direction. and that courts before itself. the supreme court is already undermine president joe biden's vaccine mandate for large employers. it has further gutted the historic voting rights act in this country leaving at a shell of what it once was. the court also appears poised to overturn york's gun control
laws which could have massive consequences for public safety. and of course, it looks as though it will overturn roe v. wade. undoing a half a century of reproductive rights in this country. now these are all groundbreaking dissidents, just like the mask made a decision that was made earlier. which has the potential to fundamentally alter the lives of tens of millions of people in this country. and we are now just beginning to see the consequences of donald trump's changes to our courts. shania nelson is the president director counsel of the naacp legal defense fund which frequently argues cases before the supreme court. she joins me now. shania, great to have you. i want to start with the news, the doj saying that if the cdc concludes that a mandatory order remains necessary for the public's health after that assessment, the department of justice will appear the district court decision. what do you make of this response from the department of justice, excuse me, should the
doj wait for the cdc or be more forceful in appealing it regardless of what the cdc thinks in terms of public health concerns at this moment with masks? >> well, i certainly hope that the doj will reconsider its decision to wait until the cdc makes a decision we have about three weeks before we get to may 3rd and during that time we might see a spike in cases we might see an increase transmission of covid-19 that threatens to harm so many communities including and particularly, black and brown communities that have borne the disproportionate burden of this pandemic and so many ways. we are talking about a pandemic in which the share of deaths among black and latino persons is higher than their share of the population. a pandemic in which racial disparities across vectors like unemployment and housing and debt and food is efficiency and mental health have revealed a
very adverse and acute effect on specific communities. so this decision, from the doj, and more importantly the underlying decision from judge myself that decision is show us reckless. it's reckless as a general matter and it has real world impacts racial impacts that are preventable and avoidable. >> and should nato's exactly what i want to talk to you about the specific decision because an article for fox legal journalist ian mill highs are called myself this in a quote legal disaster. and he went on to write mizelle opinion is so pro the reason that is difficult not to suspect that it was written in bad faith. it's primary argument is that federal law permissive cdc to require businesses to clean up contaminants that can spread disease, but that the law does
not present the cc to actually prevents the contamination from occurring in the first place. just from a legal mind, what do you make of that ruling? >> it's highly suspect, i have to agree that it is indicative of a very animus posture from this judge who was seemingly looking to reach a particular result and interpreted the term sanitation in a very narrow way we have evidence that droplets, when transmitted from any individual who is contaminated with covid. may transmit that disease, that virus to other individuals. and we have proof that masking can prevent that. but i think with this decision underscores more than anything is that we can't be reckless when it comes to our confirmation of judges.
and we need to unpack the aviators rating of judgment cell as not qualified. the 180 federal judges that went before the 116th congress, only three were rated not qualified by a substantial majority of that aba committee and judge mizelle was one of them. and her decision yesterday illustrates the peril in advancing on qualified judges for pure political gain. these judges have lifetime appointments. they're deciding some of this consequential issues in our society. as you pointed out. and we, the public, bear the brunt of those bad decisions when they're issued. this is of serious concern and i hope that we will see the department of justice take more immediate action in appealing this decision. i was gonna say, it affects millions of lives for
generations to come, with very little or any recourse at all. janai nelson, thanks so much for joining, us i greatly appreciate your time. that was the conversation around the legal defeat decision, doctor vin gupta he's a critical care -- at the institute for health metrics and evaluation at the university of washington, to self-to a sift through some of the science potentially behind the decision. doctor gupta, give it to a straight. should people continue wearing masks on public transportation? >> good evening, yes they should, right now this tool that we talk about, vaccines, therapeutics, it isn't where it needs to be quite yet, we still have under five without access to vaccines, i suspect that's gonna change in the month of may or early june with moderna's application they already have pre proven from the fda. that's gonna be one key piece. -- therapeutics, demand is far greater than supply. once we rectify that, everyone will have that critical access
to this tool kit. and ayman mohyeldin, that will help us to revisit this question about masking, when two and the masking in airplanes, is probably gonna end up ending sometime in may or early june, once this tool kit gets robust enough. we're not there yet, we're definitely not there yet. still, if you're watching this right now, especially if you're high-risk, definitely important have a high quality mask when you're in transition. >> there there's honestly, doctor gupta, a lot of confusion about the trajectory of masks since the beginning the pandemic, the mask guidance from the cdc has been somewhat confusing. they lifted indoor mask guidelines -- , and then they lifted them again, what would you say to someone out there who thinks they no longer need to wear masks indoors, certainly in a place that is as enclosed and cramped as a public bus, or perhaps the plane. >> well, i would say, we are entering a phase that is different from 2021 in 2020,
with the mandate, so to that individual we should take advantage, ayman, of this moment, time where people understand their medical risk more than they ever have, then in december 2019. can they categorize based on age or underlying conditions? if they consider themselves below the median risk, i can't reasonably tell that individual that yes they must wear a mask at all times in public places. in an airplane cabin, what's important is we aren't checking vaccine status. there is still a lot of critical unknowns here. we don't know, for example, what does a booster do, that third or fourth shot, for those that are higher risk. we are still trying to figure that out. so the initial guidance on that from the cdc earlier this month, again there's some uncertainty there, we have pediatric groups that still don't have access because of that uncertainty, certain places need to have these mandates. at an individual level, can i tell someone who's otherwise healthy, who's at low risk
medically that they need to wear their mask in a grocery store, if they're otherwise healthy low risk, no they don't. that individual assessment really takes root. >> so, you bring up a really good point, and we take a step back and look at the totality of what is happening, and the trends of what is seeing, do you have cases that are slightly picking up again on the coast. just about in time for the immunity from omicron to subside, there's some warnings that there could be another variant that is starting to gain a little bit of traction. what should we expect, as we head into spring and summer, because the flip side that is when cases go down, you're outdoors, the weather is a little bit warmer, you're not in these enclosed places all the time. >> well, i think a critical factor here is the university of washington estimates that we're only capturing 50% of cases in the recorded tally, so 85% of cases are currently going undetected, or unreported because people are testing at
home, as an example. the next six months, significant reprieve in terms of hospital stress, in till halloween expect that hospitals across the country will not be experiencing icu level stress from covid. that's going to change come november, and as we get into the winter months, remember, covid and other respiratory viruses, these are seasonal viruses, where transmission increases in colder, drier air. so i am worried about thanksgiving time, and next february of 2023, where we're gonna have a resurgence. critically, i see this clinically, 65 and older, only one third to about 40% of those individuals actually got a third shot, that third shot is vital to keep them out of the hospital. these dynamics are really gonna -- i worry a significant wave come in november, especially don't have these therapeutics. one last thing to keep in mind, there is a new pill in development, a new treatment that is under fda consideration, that might actually save peoples lives in the icu. so, if we have this broader
tool kit, with these therapeutics, that could hopefully help mitigate the risk down the road. lots of dynamics in play. >> and not to mention, we need to continue to improve our testing capabilities in this country. doctor vin gupta, always a pleasure, good to see you my friend, thank you. coming up, a new name has entered the january 6th investigation, why were the oath keepers texting each other about protecting none other than donald trump's favorite former white house doctor, during the insurrection? new details on doctor turned congressman ronny jackson, straight ahead. incredible new reporting on the origin story of a vaccine conspiracy theory, joins me next with that. she's found new ways to stay on top of it all. once-weekly trulicity is proven to help lower a1c and it can help you lose up to 10 pounds. trulicity is for type 2 diabetes. it isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. it's not approved for use in children. don't take trulicity if you're allergic to it, you or your family have medullary thyroid cancer,
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talking about the difficulty of getting people vaccinated and how misinformation has actually played in outsized role in the conversation. nbc news senior reporter ramy zakaria has been covering online misinformation for years, she is an expert in that field. she has dealt with everything from extremism to faulty signs and now she has a new podcast on one crazy story that is almost too hard to believe. of course, it is about a nurse name tiffany dover who's reaction to the covid vaccine set off a flood of conspiracy theories online. and you may remember back in december of 2020, dover actually got the vaccine shot in -- tennessee. with the cameras rolling.
and you see there, she actually fainted just afterwards. and for her, this was not a big deal, it was actually something that had happened to her before. >> i have a history of having an overactive -- response. and so with that. if i have pain from anything, hangnail or stub my toe, i can just pass out. i feel fine now and the pain in my arm is very minimal, actually. but it doesn't take much. >> all right, bye for the conspiracy theory out there and the anti-vaxxers that moment, that single moment he saw there that was caught on camera. was all the evidence they needed. it was the proof that somehow the vaccine had killed tiffany dover. >> side of the vaccine event was on thursday, all this really snowballed, you know, friday saturday sunday. so on monday when tiffany
returned to work, all the leading nurses -- regular meeting in the morning anyway, that standard part of care. so they came over, it's a staircase. so they lined the staircase. we had signs made that said, we support tiffany. we put the date on it, trying to take away any doubt that the done today. this was not done before the vaccine event, that there is, this was a timely event that we did because so many people were demanding proof of life. >> it will not surprise you to learn that for a large portion of people, it didn't work. >> everything they could try to pick apart they did. >> all right so the podcast is called tiffany dover is dead. you see there is an asterisk there. and i just want to be clear, she is not. tiffany dover is not dead.
this podcast was just released yesterday. it is currently number one on apple podcast. an incredible feat already. nbc news senior reporter bahraini zadrozny joins me now. brady congrats on the amazing success and launch of this process. it is such an important story in a reveal so much about the way we consume information. tell us a little bit about what happened with that clip of dover, when she fainted, started circulating online and going quote unquote viral. >> well thanks for having me, first, i know that you know how hard a podcast can be. so i'm really glad to be here with you. but so this thing with bananas, people fill tiffany social page with harassment and conspiracy theories right after it happened. all these conspiracy theories made videos about her, claiming that they had some proof that she had been killed. they also went to her family members pages and said that they were somehow complicit in this conspiracy theory. and then, you know, probably one of the most important things as we just heard from
the hospital administrator, they disrupted the hospital. harassed doctors and nurses who fighting a pandemic. and that all is still happening. this is been more than a year later that's happening right now. >> so i gotta ask you, there are a lot of conspiracy theories out there, a lot of covid conspiracy theories, everything from microchips being planted into the vaccine so that people can track or movements and what have you. why did you pick this story to follow for the podcast out of all the conspiracy theories are out there? >> there are a lot. and we often say that sort of misinformation reporters were putting out fires. and so to get this time to focus on one was important. and why tiffany? well, because first of all she was among the first. the timing couldn't have been worse. it was this moment, december 17th, 2020, when all eyes were on these local feeds, these local news sources, facebook paces, live streams at hospitals. and everybody is watching this is a moment of hope. and so we, normal folks were
just watching it but anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists we're also watching this. and they were just looking for a moment like this. to capitalize on and to take us proof. and so because it was the first, because it was on video, because tiffany is beautiful, because of all of these, it just sort of made this storm and this perfect storm to breed misinformation. also i should say, one of the reasons that we picked is because it seemingly was going to be so easy to debunk. that didn't turn out to be quite the way that i thought it would be though. >> why is this story so important, is there any way to quantify how much this conspiracy theory spread? just by the number of views of people who saw that or how shared in various messaging boards. what does it tell us, if you will, about just the scope of conspiracy theories about the larger intersection of
coronavirus and politics? >> so it's hard to overstate just how big this conspiracy theory got. within the day that it happened, people were making new content, making new videos and uploading them to youtube. every 19 minutes. that was just on the first day. and this is had a really long tale. these videos of tiffany have been viewed millions and millions of times. and again, people are still making content right now. the important thing to know about this too is that tiffany -- so much echoed misinformation really is but this one lie is just not political. it's delusional. and i think when it shows us is that a lie, when people really want to believe it, can just be far more powerful than the truth. >> yeah, you're absolutely right, it's a mere touch upon as well my own podcaster. you can definitely listen to the first two episodes of the podcast, tiffany dover is dead,
now brandi congratulations on the hard work. and i look forward to following the next several episodes as they drop. make sure to download those as soon as you can. a big announcement is apparently coming from the white house regarding a new arms shipment to ukraine. up next, former ambassador marie ivanovich on the web this means and how far we have come from the last president's hands off approach the situation. >> i really hope that your president can get together and can solve your problems. there will be a tremendous achievement. and i know you're trying to do that.
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weeks, we've seen ukrainian president zelenskyy walking through the streets of ukraine, in the middle of this war, risking his life for his country. but you may remember, zelenskyy was also at the center of the first impeachment trial, by our own disgraced ex president. during july 2019, in a now infamous phone call between then president trump and the ukrainian president, so lynskey said, i would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. we are ready to continue to cooperate with next steps, specifically, we are almost ready to buy more javelins from the united states, for defensive purposes. to which trump than replied, i would like you to do us a favor, though, then he proceeded to ask him to manufacture dirt on the bidens. it was extortion. trump was holding up vital
military aid. things like javelin anti-tank missiles in exchange for political dirt on an opponent. now, to give you some context, just in the past two months during this war, the united states says it has provided 7000 javelins to ukraine, part of the nearly 2. 6 billion dollars in u.s. military aid to the ukrainians, since russia's invasion began on february 24th. that is how ukraine has defended itself, against russia's invasion. that's how critical those javelins were, back in 2019 just hours after a transcript was released a zelenskyy asking trump for those specific weapons, and then trump extorting him, the two actually had a face to face meeting at the united nations, in what is described as a truly, truly bizarre press conference. watch this. >> we had i think, a good phone call, it was normal, we spoke about many things. so i think, and you read it,
then nobody pushed me. >> in other words, no pressure. >> well i'd argue with you, ukraine, and we want other countries to work with ukraine, they should put more money, we put up a lot of money, i gave you anti tank pastors, that frankly, president obama was sending you pillows, and sheets. and i gave you anti tank busters, a lot of people don't want to do that but i did it. i really hope that russia, because i really believe that president putin would like to do something. i really hope that you have president putin get together and can solve your problem, that would be a tremendous achievement, and i know he's trying to do that. >> all right, i'm not a body language expert, but you can pretty much see that pain look on zelenskyy's face, a man who is trying to do with the best of his abilities for his country, while at the same time basically being bullied by the president of the united states, this thug. two months later, with
impeachment hearings in full swing, trump went on the white house lawn to publicly threaten zelenskyy. >> i want nothing, i want nothing, i want no quid pro quo, tell zelenskyy, president zelenskyy. to do the right thing. this is the final word from the president of the united states. >> so the whole affair led to trump's impeachment, but looking back now, it is so much worse knowing what we know. but at the time, one of the people who is actually fighting trump's corruption from behind the scenes, was the u.s. ambassador to ukraine marie yovanovitch, for that she was removed from her post, and forced to leave the country in the dead of night. her new memoir is titled lessons from the edge, ambassador marie yovanovitch joins me now. >> ambassador, thanks so much for making time for us, we all knew that donald trump was withholding aid from ukraine, and that was certainly bad. he got impeached for it, but
looking back with the benefit of hindsight, is it even worse how this played out than we originally thought? >> well, i think it just shows that president trump is using ukraine as a pawn for his own personal reasons. rather than working for our national security interests, which included having a strong ukraine he was looking out for his own interest, and i think that's a bad signal, not only is it wrong, and a bad for the american people but it sends a signal to dictators around the world, that deals can be done with that administration. we can in the united states. >> i was going to say, can you help set the record straight on that particular moment we heard there from president trump, where he said president obama sent two pillows and sheets, i send you an anti tank buster. compared to this administration,
how does the biden administration's handling of ukraine compared to the trump administration's, and what he was saying about the previous administration? >> yeah, so the obama administration made a decision that, sending javelins would be escalatory, and so they made a decision not to provide javelins to ukraine, at a time when there was no tank warfare in ukraine. so, sending tank busters to ukraine, perhaps was not the most necessary thing. but it was symbolic. a number of people in the administration, including myself, felt that was the wrong decision, and continue to push when trump became president. and under some pressure, trump did agreed to send initial shipments of javelins to ukraine, in 2017, which were delivered in 2018. and then the infamous perfect phone call, where he, you know
traded, wanted to trade dirt on the bidens for for the javelins. that is clearly not the way, to be using the high office in the united states. -- fast forward to the biden administration -- so, clearly the ad biden administration is all in, providing record amounts of assistance, including javelin tank busters, including all sorts of equipment for ukraine. the important thing is to keep on flowing that equipment now, when it can make the most difference, including a long range offensive and defensive equipment. >> let me get your opinion on how this ends today. what is your opinion on what
you've seen in ukraine during this invasion, and how does this situation and? people have made the difference between the attempt to save ukrainian lives, to save ukraine by ending this war and kind of reaching some kind of political or diplomatic framework. or, what is happening now, which is bogging russia down in this war, and basically bleeding russia out in ukraine, even if it is still able to carry out the destruction that it is doing inside that country. >> well, i don't think that those are major reasonable positions to hurled in the united states, but it is in our call to make, it's up to the ukrainian people, the cranial leadership to make that decision, as to what they want to do. i mean, i have many friends in ukraine, i am so worried about what is happening, not only to my friends but to the greater ukrainian population. it is horrifying, horrifying to watch, at the end of the day, they're fighting for their
country, this is an existential crisis. they are fighting for the country, they're fighting for their families, they're fighting for their freedom, and it's up to them to make that decision, as to how much further they want to go. in mariupol, and other parts of ukraine, and how they move forward. i don't think that's something that we in the west should be dictating. we are not the ones who are fighting. >> but surely, we would have a say in lifting off the sanctions that we've imposed on russia. do you have a sense of what that would require for us to do that? >> we know this point, sanctions, as you know, are very hard to lift, under any circumstances. and given, frankly -- given what russia has done in ukraine, it's going to be really hard to see a bipartisan consensus to lift those
sanctions. so, yes, we had to say on certain issues, things like sanctions, if there are any kind of security guarantees that the ukrainians are looking for, on reconstruction issues, there are rules for the international community. first and foremost, the united states, but i think in terms of an eventual peace negotiation, with those terms are is definitely up to the ukrainian people, and ukrainian leadership. >> all right, ambassador marie ivanovich, thank you so much for, time really appreciate your insights. next, why we're oath keepers texting each other about protecting donald trump's favorite doctor turned congressman while the attack was actually underway at the capitol? the questions surrounding those newly-revealed texts, just ahead.
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who eats mcdonald's, fried chicken, and all those die coast, isn't as good shape bezos in,? >> it's called genetics, some people have great jeans, i told the president that if he had a healthier diet over the past 20 years, he'd love to be 200 years, old i don't know. >> so, that was how most of us were actually introduced to ronny jackson, he was then physician to donald trump, in january 2018. dr. jackson performed trump's first physical in office, and
he made those outlandish claims about his health, that you heard there. he also recorded trump's height at six foot three inches, his weight at just about 239 pounds, squeezing under the threshold for being considered obese. not long after that, trump tried to promote dr. ronny to secretary of veterans affairs, ultimately jackson had to withdraw from consideration for the post, under a slew of damaging accusations that were revealed. according to the senate veteran affairs committee, that included loose prescribing practices, earning jackson the name candy man from white house staffers, who said he would provide whatever prescriptions they sought without paperwork. that wasn't the actual end of ronny jackson's career, or his story. he left the white house medical unit at the end of 2019, he ran for congress successfully. jackson campaigned on his close relationship with trump, and
how did his endorsement all the way to the house of representatives. but now, but now, ronny jackson may be called upon to tell the truth, under oath. newly-unsealed text messages reveal his connection to the wannabe militia, the oath keepers. amidst the violent insurrection that happened on january the 6th, an unidentified person wrote on an oath keepers checks chain, quote, ronny jackson office inside capitol, he needs okay, which we presume to be short for oath keepers, help. anyone inside? for the record, some of these oath keepers are charged with criminally conspiring to stop congress from counting electoral votes on january the 6th, so that raises the question, why were these so-called oath keepers concerned about protecting donald trump's favorite doctor turn congressman, during an insurrection? during this right? there are more text messages, and new reporting about that. we're gonna have that much more straight ahead.
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participants in the criminal conspiracy to stop the peaceful transfer of power on january 6th, as the guardian reports, the investigation is starting to focus on the coordination between far-right military gangs, and their actions leading up and during the insurrection. in fact, a new court filing reveals text messages showing that the head of the florida oath keepers chapter, kelly megs, called the leader of the crowd noise, and it shows i'm coordinating protection services for donald trump ally roger stone. we are also seeing, for the first-time, that the oath keepers mentioning, as the january 6th riots were underway, a newly elected trump loving member of congress and their texts, none other than dr. ronny jackson. quote, dr. ronny jackson on the move, needs protection, if anyone inside, cover him. he has critical data to protect. hugo is upright -- investigation into january six, he joins me now. you reached out to dr. jackson
about the story, and others, how did he respond to the text in this filing? >> yeah, so we got a statement through his office out this morning, that he was not involved with any of the aforementioned groups, the oath keepers and the proud boys. and that he had never spoken to any of these people. which i thought was interesting because, obviously these were text messages and they seem to be some sort of connection between the oath keepers and ronny jackson. and during the capitol attack, i put that question back to his office, and did not receive a response. >> so, is there any plan by the january 6th committee to call republican members into congress. ronny jackson, is there any thing under oath he may be compelled to offer up. >> i think the select committee is still trying to decide what they're gonna do, the republican member of congress, and whether they're gonna bring him in before the committee. back in january, i was hearing among the staff that they were
really concerned about the political implications of bringing a member of congress. members of congress are protected by the speech and debate clause. it's really hard to overcome that, and subpoena these members without it turning into a partisan fight. the committee has looked at this and wondered, we'll, if it's gonna be partisan to find them anyway, maybe we'll bring them in. i don't think they want to take that step just yet. if they do, that they get towards the end of their evidence gathering phase which is looking towards end of this month, i think. >> there was an interesting nugget in one of the texts, from the oath keepers founders stewart rhodes. it seems to add someone he identified as an advent producer for stop the steal, but that name, as you see there on the screen, was actually redacted. what do we know about that, and why that might that name actually be redacted at this point? >> again, we just don't know, it's a good question right. this is the first time we're
seeing the leadership of the oath keepers, talking about a stop the steal individual it's none other than stewart rhodes himself adding a stop the steal event producer, which we might revisit rally organizer, or someone connecting to the events surrounding the january six rallies to this group chat. the second line of the text message, he is really telling because it goes, well, he's going to help us determine who is going to do what, in the, quote, created chaos on january five on january 6th. it's really remarkable, and damning, and raises all sorts of questions about who this person might be. it's possible, right, that stewart rhodes miss identify this person, and it was a save america rally person, because they were colloquially been known to stop the steal, but it's a really interesting points, and the point that he raises afterwards in the text about the creative chaos, i think, is most interesting.
>> all right, hugo lowe from the guardian, thank you so much for your reporting on this, i'm sure it will be a story that we continue to follow, for weeks and months ahead. that is all in on this tuesday night, the rachel maddow show starts right now, good evening rachel. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. goods evening, rachel. >> good evening, a mon, it's great to see you, my friend. in the 1960s, early 1960s he founded a publishing house that distributed recordings of nazi speeches and nazi marching songs. then in the '70s, 1972, he teamed up with a guy who had literally collaborated with the nazis when theh germans invade france and occupied france during world war ii, he found a guy to work with who had been a willing nazi collaborator in france. he and the nazi collaborator guy founded
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