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tv   Dateline  MSNBC  May 1, 2022 12:00am-1:00am PDT

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mother. i don't care if it's labeled obsession or crazy. i'm doing this because i love her. and she deserves it. >> that's all for this edition of "dateline". i'm andrea canning. thanks for watching. thanks for watching i'm natalie morales, and this is dateline. >> this really was a soap opera. >> unfortunately is my life, and it wasn't a soap opera for me. >> it was tv's first blockbuster trial. scandalous and sensational. her >> sexuality, that was a star of the show. >> it's explosion of flashbulbs. >> it's body heat. it's fatal attraction. >> pamela smart but she's a bewitching her --
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murdering her husband. >> >> now, more than three decades later, another look at the frenzy. >> it was just crazy. >> the trial. >> i made a mistake. >> was killing a's been one of those mistakes? >> no. >> that's not at all who she is or was. >> and the case some say change the way americans witness justice. >> i don't know if enough will ever be enough for anybody in this case. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> hello and welcome to dateline. you've heard about it. pamela smart lived it. a beautiful, young widow stepped from run -- into america's most quipping trial. the case had it all, sex, betrayal and murder. a very real drama that inspired a hollywood hit movie. now, you're about to hear the
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chilling story from the woman at the center of it all. here's andrea canning with deadly secrets. >> you were the big show in town? >> -- this story, people couldn't get enough of it. >> when i look back at the footage, i look like a baby. i look so young, and i look so afraid. that's exactly how i felt. but >> before the menendez brothers, before the bob it's or amy fischer, or even oj, pamela smart was televisions first true crime celebrity. but >> it's like i'm frozen forever in my worst mistake, and i'm judged forever but my worst mistake, and people think there's nothing else to me. >> the story begins in the old
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middle town of derry, new hampshire. 22 year old pamela smart had come home late from work to find her 24 year old husband, greg, sprawled out on the floor of their home. >> it's six days before your first anniversary. take us to that night. what happened when you walk in the door? >> i saw greg on the ground, in front of the entrance to the door. i called for him, and he didn't respond. >> did you try to shake him? >> no. >> he was calling his name? >> i called his name, he did answer, and iran. >> you go to the neighbor, what is the neighbor to? colin? >> i don't even remember after that. >> daniel peletier was the lead
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detective in the case. >> -- outside, she was yelling and screaming that her husband had been hurt. >> it wasn't until way after. his parents, with the police were there. his father said, why aren't you helping my son and the police officer said because he's dead. was >> that moment? like >> his father hit the floor, i hit the floor, his mother passed out. daniel pelletier it was crazy. >> -- that it was a gunshot wound. the moon was actually at the top left of his skull. >> when i got to her parents house, we both sobbed. >> sonia 14 simon was a friend of the family. >> we laid there in her bed, because she was in a fetal position, crying. she was uncontrollable. was trying to figure who could've done this. it >> was apparent that two people were involved, because of the way that things were set
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up and the amount of things that were disturbed. the stereo had been removed from the serial rack, and i have pulled out. there were speakers near the rear door. there was jewelry boxes overturned. >> it looked like a blur glittery gone bad. that's what we were hearing, this overseeing. the police weren't saying anything. >> -- we had heard at one point that they were looking for somebody who traded in some jewelry. we had picked that up on the police scanner. >> but the burglary gone bad theory had some problems. >> that didn't really make a lot of sense because of the time of day in a neighborhood like that. there were a lot of residents there. >> it was looking like an execution. maybe there was more to the story. police always look at the spouse. they have to talk to them. did the interview you? >> they did. i spent hours with the police. i spent hours at the police station.
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>> did you feel like you are a suspect? >> not at all. did >> you feel that they were suspicious? >> not at all. >> greg smarts short life was over. now, as police try to figure out who killed him, life for his young widow was about to enter a strange new reality. would happen next would raise questions about justice and fairness that are still being asked today. >> who would want greg smart dead? a bone-chilling rumor provides a crucial clue. coming up, students with the deadly secret about to be revealed. >> if they hadn't told people, i'm not sure how this would've turned out. >> one of those students had an intimate connection to pam smart. >> somebody came and told me that he had a crush on me or something. i thought it was cute, but i wasn't interested. >> you're the grown-up. here >> right. i sure was. >> when dateline continues.
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gunned down at home in a quiet neighborhood town. bill spencer, who does work for nbc kprc affiliate in houston, was -- just after you picked up the story of who killed greg smart? >> he's got a whole high ahead of him. he's a successful ensured salesman. and his wife has been for some reason shot to death at the doorstep of his own home? why? >> police were asking the same
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question. and trying to learn more about greg. sonia knew him well. >> greg was the life of the party. he was always big dimples, smiling, having all the jokes, and acting a little crazy. >> police learned that greg met her in new hampshire for years earlier when she was home from a holiday break in college. they got along so well that he moved with her to tallahassee, where she was a sophomore in communication at the state school. >> he followed you there? >> we would go to the beach. we will travel. i was working at a dystrophy at the time. >> he was -- she was walking and had a bon jovi t-shirt on. >> that's when amy met patta and greg. >> what's about you? >> i said do you like bon jovi? she said i like bon jovi. my boyfriend looks like bon jovi. >> greg was not taking classes,
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but pamela was a serious student. >> i was having some problems in a few classes and she would take me to the library, and she would have index cards, everything prepared. and she taught me how to study! >> how was pamela around greg? what did he bring out of her? >> even though he was shy, she was also, they were very sweet, and kind of cozy. >> by the time graduation rolled around, kept pamela and gregg were in gauged. they went home to new hampshire got married. he cut his hair and got a job with his dad selling insurance. pamela, who dreamed of being a tv reporter, got a job with a local school district. >> had it together 20, 21 years old? >> yeah, i thought i was doing all right. >> amy imagine the big future for pamela. >> i knew that she was gonna do great things. and i told her that the next time i saw her, i knew she was
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gonna be famous. and i would see her on tv. >> and in fact, a few days after the murder, pamela smart was on tv being interviewed by reporter bill spencer. >> she was wearing beautiful, vibrant, blue dress. her hair was all made up, make up perfect. she looked gorgeous. >> police watched pamela on television with a knees. >> we had eliminated the information going to pamela smart, because she liked talking to the media. >> while reporters work the story, police continued working the case. and then, came a break. it happened at a high school where pamela worked. kids there were spreading a wild story. >> if they had not told people, i'm not sure how this would've turned out. because i do not think the police had that much. >> some teenage boys at the school were telling people that they killed greg smart. and use one of their fathers
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guns to do it. a neighborhood kid heard them talking, he repeated the story to the father. who located his gun, and then made a tough decision. >> ended up bringing it to the police department saying, this man may have been involved in a murder. turned out it was the gun that may have killed greg. >> shortly after that, three local highschoolers were arrested for the murder. bill spencer made the bee line for pamela smarts house. >> she looks frantic and incredibly emotional. and i'm like, this is great news! they just made an arrest! the case is wrapping up. and she said, no i can't talk bill, i'm too upset! two devastated! >> it was the first time he had seen her like that. it did not make sense. but it turns out, pamela smart knew the kids under arrest. she had an intimate connection
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with one of them. his name was billy flynn. >> at first, someone told me that he had a crush on me, or something, i thought it was cute. but not interesting. >> you're the grown-up right? >> i sure was. >> you're working for the schools! >> i'm not thinking about him in any romantic way whatsoever. >> they had work together on the school program called project self esteem when she was helping some students produce this goofy commercial as part of a competition. there's pamela on the left, and that is billy. >> and then where does it go from there? >> well i did not think it was going anywhere, because i was not interested. i did not care. looking back, i guess i was flattered by the attention. because i felt at that point in my life i was low after what happened with greg. >> she says greg had a one night stand with a woman he met at a bar. pamela said she was feeling
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wounded, billy made her feel better. apparently, much better. >> how did things crossed the line? how do they get to that point? >> i knew it was wrong. i felt like i did not want to be attracted to him. but i still felt like i was. >> she says the affair lasted a few months, but then she told billy it was over. after confessing it to greg. >> you are going to try to make it? work >> yes. >> how is billy flynn acting through all of this? >> he was angry. he was sad. he was crying. he was, and i did feel bad. i did not intend to hurt his feelings. >> not long after that, her husband was dead. and the teenage student that she had been sleeping with, was under arrest. >> it was complete shock! and then, when i first heard it. i thought. they found out about the affair. and now, i am somehow part of this one away or another.
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because i have this relationship with him. >> the kids under arrest may have been young, but also tough. they were not talking. but police were tougher, and figured that getting the teens to talk was just a matter of time. >> coming up! >> it's body heat, it's fatal attraction. it's what's pours millions into theater every weekend. and it is right here in new hampshire. >> the drama builds as the student who shares pam smarts secret dots talk! >> what was his version of events to you? >> pam had said to him that they could never be together against -- unless he was killed. >> i did not realize the scope until the sex part came out. >> when dateline continues! til the sex part came out. >> when dateline continues
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pamela smart spent a lot of time with police, talking about a life with greg and would happen the 90 was killed, but she had left out one important detail. if you're being interviewed with four hours, one might think it's relevant to say, i was having an affair. that's a pause -- >> looking back, i should've said that. i did not think that i was -- knew somebody who's capable of murder. it was not in my brain that he had possibly killed my husband. >> even after teenager, billy
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flynn, and two of his friends were arrested, she still didn't say anything about the affair. >> it was bad enough that my husband was dead, and i was trying to go through all of this, and then i had greg's parents calling me saying, come these people you know killed my son? >> the teenagers kept silent for months, but then, the prosecution moved try them as adults. the stakes got higher. according to lead prosecutor, paul maggiano. >> that's when they were facing life without parole. the idea of cooperating became all the more relevant to them. >> that's when they admitted that they had killed greg smart, but there was more to it. billy said that pamela was involved. in fact, the teen said that she was the mastermind. >> what was his version of events to you? >> basically, pam had said to him that they can never be together unless craig was killed. >> police heard a story of
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seduction and manipulation. that billy had become spellbound by the sensuous, and more experienced, pamela smart. he would do anything for her, even kill. >> the original plan was for him to try and find someone to kill greg smart. they really couldn't find anybody to kill him, so eventually, pam started putting pressure on billy, like you have to kill him, and this is how you can do it. >> maggiano says billy tried and failed a few times to kill greg, and then asked his friends for help. >> for the life of me, i'm not sure why they agreed to help. they agreed to help in part because pam says to them, you can have whatever you want from the apartment. billy tells them, still give you $1,000 each. pam reneged on with billy, saying, i'll give him $500 each. >> they said pam told him one guy would be home, and made a
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gradients to be gone. they ransacked the house. billy shot greg, and they all fled. exactly three months after the killing, police had what they needed. they drove to pamela's workplace. >> she said, hello, and i said, hello. she said, what's up. i said we, have good and bad news. -- you're under arrest for murder. stand up, turn around, for transponder back. >> she's being led by the police into court, and she looks so, to me, powerless. so helpless, vulnerable. >> the news morphed in a nanosecond from the story of a tragic widow, to the story of a black widow. she was 22, and he was 16. >> up until then, it was a murder case, and i had some interesting parts to it. i didn't realize the scope of
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this thing, until the sex part came out, between billy flynn and pamela smart, and all the sexual manipulation. >> people look back on early interviews and picture apart. her looks, her clothes. will she join the attention? >> this is a real life soap opera. >> nbc news that a story about covering the story with bill spencer's boss, then the news director of w. when you are. >> it's body heat, it's bought -- fatal traction. it's will pours millions into the theater every weekend. and it's right here in new hampshire. the >> tabloids loved it. especially when these pictures surfaced. pamela smart posing in a bikini. she gave those pictures to young, innocent billy flynn. the story went. supposedly, all part of her seduction. the story moved like wildfire around the country. >> i went in a gas station and i saw storm aga seen.
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there was a wedding picture. and called her the ice princess. that she had murdered greg. i couldn't believe it. i bawled my eyes out. there was no way this was her. when the media was talking about pam, i couldn't recognize who they were talking about because it's not the person that i know. >> the families and friends of pamela and greg smart we're about to face immediate onslaught, and pamela was about to become part of a new kind of television phenomenon. >> coming up -- >> she told me she was going to -- >> would like that mean? but >> like, provocative -- like a strip tease. >> red-hot testimony. >> we had sex. >> cold blooded murder. >> i said, god forgive me --
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>> after you should god forgive me, what happened? >> i pulled the trigger. >> when dateline continues. when dateline continues on b♪ if you've been playing down your copd,... ♪ it's a new dawn, it's a new day,... ♪'s time to make a stand. start a new day with trelegy. good. ♪ no once-daily copd medicine... has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy helps people breathe easier and improves lung function. it also helps prevent future flare-ups. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur.
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♪ the barnes firm injury attorneys ♪ ♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪ following some breaking news out of ukraine. house speaker nancy pelosi and several u.s. lawmakers made an unannounced trip to kyiv where they -- presidents lynskey today. pelosi said her group was there to thank the ukrainians for fighting for freedom. she is the highest ranking official to visit ukraine since the start of the war. -- now heads to poland. we'll have much more light on this with the katie fang show it 7 am. now back to dateline! edgy now back to dateline edgy welcome back to dateline! i'm natalie morales. newlywed, and widowed paddles
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smart received accolades after her husband was killed. but in a stunning arrest, police arrested her for murder! now, live in a new hampshire courtroom where testimony from her three accomplices would reveal a tantalizing story of seduction. but different than you many think. back to andrea canning, with deadly secrets! >> it was the first week of march, 1991. ten months after gregg smart was killed. and pamela smart was on trial for his murder. reporters from around the world swarmed the courthouse to tell the story. a woman who seduced a teenage boy, and convincing her his friends to kill her husband! >> all i can remember is this explosion of flash bombs going off. as she is being led in the courtroom. >> what kind of impact did it have on the trial? all that attention? >> certainly, i think the court
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had to take certain precautions to make sure that this did not get out of hand. >> hamill's attorney, mark, said things had already gotten out of hand. >> i felt as though the jury was in shark infested waters. they had been sequestered. cam accrues at that point were running wild. we had our own clients traced into the women's lavatory. >> that was the backlog as the state of new hampshire laid out its case. prosecutors contended in their opening arguments that pamela smart was a calculating temptress. a woman who lured young billy with promises of sex and money. >> one by one of the teens, who had already pled guilty to second degree murder had taken the stand. in homes, barbershops, and diners. people watched as they described an awful crime.
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when admitted getting the others to murder greg smart as he admitted the mere owed of was money for him, and for pamela. pamela told him there would be a life insurance payout after he was killed, and they would get some of the money. >> what did you expect to receive? >> 500 and cash. >> from who? >> pamela smart. >> they told the jury about how pamela smart issue detail instructions. including not stabbing. >> pamela said that she did not want the wife used because of the mess the blood would make, and how she had new furniture. everything in the house she had was quite furniture. >> but the teen said they had a butcher knives from the kitchen to greg's throat. >> he was telling them, please don't hurt him! he was begging for his life. >> what kind of ring was it?
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>> at first i thought it was a normal gold rate, but it turned out to be a wedding band. >> and what happened at that time? >> told him he would give it to me. >> why? >> he said his wife would kill him. >> at the center of this are rated courtroom drama, was the love struck teenage killer, billy flynn. he took the stand on his 17th birthday, and testified about how he and tom pamela smart became intimate. one time, when pamela smart was away on a ski trip, she invited him to the bedroom, and then. >> she told me to -- >> what happened then? >> it's provocative, like a strip tease. >> what happened after that? >> we had sex! >> any intercourse? >> yeah, we made love. >> on the stand, billy went on to say that the next morning, pamela smart began a different kind of seduction. >> she tried crying, and it got
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me upset. she was saying that the only way that we will are going to be together was if we killed greg. if you love me, and do this because you want to be with me, then -- >> why did you say to her as she was saying this to you? >> i told her i did love her. i love the very much. >> billy testified that the murder plot was planned over the course of at least two months. you could hear a pin drop in court when the tearful student described the killing. >> i cocked it back and pointed the gun at his head. >> after you pointed a gun at his head what did you do? >> i just stood there. >> how long was it? >> 100 years, it seemed like. i said, god forgive me.
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>> after you said got forgive me? that happened? >> i pulled the trigger! >> viewers like jurors rendering a verdict in realtime. >> i feel sorry for the kids, so young and they ruined their lives. >> a story of the wedding ring was so devastating. don't take the wedding ring! my wife will kill me! for what? >> this is real stuff. it's real stuff! >> if the testimony from the young conspirators was not enough, prosecutors had pamela in her own words. courtesy of another student, cecilia peers. prosecutors believed she knew about the murder plot, but they did not have enough evidence to charge her with conspiracy. but they did convince her to
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cooperate. >> when cecilia pierce came on board and she decided to start cooperating with us, and talking to the family. >> authorities hoped that pamela smart, would implicate herself in the murder. on the tapes, she did not come out and say she did it, but she did come out worried of being arrested. >> i'm afraid when they are in a company and you're gonna be wired by the police. >> on one recording, she implies she knows plenty about the murder plot. >> if you tell the truth, you're gonna have to send me to the slammer for the rest of my life. >> she also worries about what would happen if one of the teams involved in the plot, started talking to police. >> he's gonna turn against them, and he's going -- to >> write. >> i know he is, and that's gonna be in trouble. >> how critical of the tapes? >> they are nail in the coffin. if you really want the truth they are nail in the coffin. >> at the prosecutor's case,
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they warned the jury not to be worried about having a smart. >> this woman has been [inaudible] . she can put herself on the stand with her background, her intelligence, her ability to answer a question. and fool one over on you. >> the prosecutors had little doubt that pamela smart was capable of doing just that. >> the states case was strong, but pamela was up next. and she was about to share a very different version of events. >> coming up! >> did you expect that when it was over, you would have sex with him? >> yes. >> did you have sex with him? >> yes. >> pamela smart takes the stand! >> i made a mistake. >> you made a lot of mistakes so far in this case. >> i sure have. >> was killing greg one of the
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mistakes? >> no it wasn't. >> when dateline continues! >> no it wasn't. >> no it wasn't. >> when hide my skin? not me. by hitting eczema where it counts, dupixent helps heal your skin from within keeping you one step ahead of eczema. y skin? not me. and that means long-lasting clearer skin and fast itch relief for adults. with dupixent, you can show more skin with less eczema. hide my skin? not me. don't use if you're allergic to dupixent. serious allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems such as eye pain or vision changes, including blurred vision, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. don't change or stop asthma medicines without talking to your doctor. when you help heal your skin from within, you can change how your skin looks and feels. and that's the kind of change you notice. talk to your eczema specialist about dupixent,
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this is vuity™, the first and only fda approved eye-drop that improves age-related blurry near vision. wait, what? it sounded like you just said an eye drop that may help you see up close. i did. it's an innovative way to... so, wait. i don't always have to wear reading glasses? yeah! vuity™ helps you see up close. so, i can see up close with just my eyes? uh-huh. with one drop in each eye, once daily. in focus? yep. [laughs] like, really? really. vuity™ is a prescription eye drop to help you see up close. ow! wait, what? wait. wait? wait, what? see for yourself. use vuity™ with caution in night driving and hazardous activities in poor light. also, if your vision is not clear, do not drive or use machinery. contact your doctor immediately if you have sudden vision loss. most common side-effects are headache and eye redness. ♪ ♪ pamela smart says the story
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told by the prosecutor was compelling fiction. a tale meant for the movies. in fact, after the trial, her story became a movie. a breakout hit for nicole kidman.
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>> if somebody can't remember pamela smart, you say, oh, the movie to die for, with nicole kidman. oh, of course i know that case. >> if you watched to die for, people take that and say, okay, this whole movie is true. and this person, pamela smart, is a horrible individual. it's >> a very iconic movie. >> yes. and it helped to freeze me in the image of my worst mistake. but >> that mistake, pamela says it was sleeping with billy flynn. not asking him to kill her husband. she denies that the. pamela says the jury was infected by oppress that caricature at her as an evil seductress. she says, the tabloids were full of law is. like those bikini photos. -- but they weren't shot to tempt billy flynn. they were taken for fun, for modeling contest. >> somehow the narrative escaped, or got created, that i took these pictures for bill flynn, gave them to him to
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seduce him. that's totally awful story. >> by the time pamela took the stand, there was a lot to dig out of. she had to testify in court that, yes, she had been a school district employee, who had slept with a student. >> did you expect that when he was over, you would have sex with him? >> yes. >> did you have sex with him when he came? over >> yes. >> did you make love to him? the >> u.s.. but -- i did think was, right that it was wrong, but i want to be with greg. he kept saying, why did not just get a divorce. i said, because i love greg. >> she said billy didn't want the relationship to end. >> he started crying and said, he couldn't live without me. >> how did that make you feel? >> i felt bad. i didn't want to hurt his feelings. i still wanted to be friends with him. he was still a nice person. >> and then, the prosecutor
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pressure about why she didn't admit the affair from the beginning. >> i did not want to united states of america to know that i had an affair. i made a mistake. >> you made a lot of mistakes so far in this case. but >> i sure have. yes, i have. was >> killing your has been one of those mistakes? >> no, it wasn't. >> but -- you should've got a divorce but you didn't? >> no, i didn't want to get divorced. >> you were so composed. someone in the -- like an ice princess. >> i think i was in shock when. i was overwhelmed by the media attention. i was raised, my whole life, not to be a crybaby. not to be overly dramatic, or anything like that. of course, when i was by myself, later on in the night, i'd be crying, when i was rewatching the coverage. it was upsetting. >> from defense attorney, marxists point of view, pamela was more arrested development, then ice queen. >> she seemed more like a 14, 15 year old, playing the part
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of an adult. >> he says another false image that persisted was billy flynn and his friends as innocent young boys, easily manipulated. the attorney says, in reality, they were tough teens, who killed greg on their own. and then concocted a story about pamela's involvement to short in their sentences but. >> the quote boys were boys is a myth. the so-called boys were certified by the attorney generals office as adults, with the sophistication of adults, that would face trial in adult court rooms, and be -- focusing >> he says is outrageous but they were housed in the same jail before trial. billionaire teen will hold a knife or even in the same cell. they had a long time to get their story straight, if
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necessary. >> from the day that greg was slaughtered the in his own living room, to the day they stepped into the courtroom, they could prepare for trial together. >> would you say about the motive the prosecution gives about you wanting your husband dead. >> nobody has every explained some sufficient motive to wildwood murder my husband, when i can get divorced. my parents lived in the beautiful house right up the street, we had no children, and no property. there was nothing to lose. >> why would believe flynn kill greg, kill your husband, with the help of these other teenagers? >> i think he felt like that was the only way he could be with me. it was very clear that as long as i was married, i was never gonna be with him. >> looking back, do you think there was anything you might have inadvertently said to billy flynn, or done, that could've provoked him into doing this? >> the only thing i ever said was that i'm not going to be with you because i'm going to be with greg.
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>> still, it's hard to explain those tapes. >> i'm afraid when they are gonna come in here and you're gonna be wired by the police and i'm gonna be busted. >> pamela told us there's a story behind those tapes. her attorney says he warned her that cecilia might be wired, but pamela talk to her anyway. >> the police weren't giving me any information, i was completely cut off. >> she says almost tapes, she's acting, pretending to know more than she did, in order to pump sicilian for information. >> all i wanted to know was that this guy kill my husband. i couldn't even sleep, i had to know. did he really do this? because, i knew, if he killed my husband, i felt like it was my fault. whether i asked him to or not, it was still my fault, because if i never had this relationship, my husband would still be alive. >> pamela points out that a lot of was on the tapes is hard to hear. she also argues that the tapes may have been edited, and the transcripts given to the jury
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for deliberations were unreliable. >> all these years later, we found a secretary in the attorney generals office made the transcription. that would be like having my mother make the transcripts. >> do you understand why people hear those tapes and believe that you're guilty? >> i do. i do. i do. >> coming up -- the verdict. >> more than 30 years later, some are asking that same question. >> a lot of forward, progressive thinking governors are saying, this sentence is archaic. enough is enough. >> when dateline continues. but continues
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case deliberated for 30 hours before delivering the verdict. >> i'm saying, if the invest -- defendant is guilty or not guilty is the charge? >> guilty. >> guilty as the parents agreed. >> she got with she deserved! >> but pamela's family was heartbroken. >> get out of the way! >> i want my son, get out of here! >> do you think it was fair? of course not. from the beginning it was not fair! >> the sentence was mandatory.
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>> i do hereby sentenced you to the manhattan state prison for women, for the remainder of, life with no parole at all. >> with no chance of pearl? >> with no parole at all. >> today this is home for pamela smart. the correctional facility for women, about an hour north of new york city. she filed appeals on the grounds of excessive publicity, change of venue, and misconduct. >> the court found no merit in those appears and they were denied. one by one, the teams, now middle aged man are paroled. billy flynn, who pulled the trigger, was released in 2015. he addressed the court then, once again, in tears. >> i found a tremendous amount of shame. >> do you think about billy flynn, what he's doing? >> i do sometimes. it makes me angry. but i am a person who does not
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want to live in bitterness and anger. >> in our interview, wet pamela smart did want to talk about is her sentence. life without parole. >> i'm not even arguing of trying my case again. what happened happened. at trialed. and i was found guilty, and i was sentence, and i'm in prison. and i've spent nearly 29 years here now. so at this point, all i'm saying is is this sentence fair? >> that is the kind of question, many criminal evidence reforms are asking. more states are making mandatory sentencing and the life without parole. >> a lot of forward-thinking governors are saying that the sentences archaic. it is leaving no room for redemption of mercy. >> and if rehabilitation is the goal, pamela smart would say she is the poster child.
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>> i have one masters in law, and one in english literature. and i'm working on a doctorate of biblical studies right now. >> she's an advocate, studies music, and she does this. praise dancing. >> praise dancing, which i do often. especially at church. it makes me feel free. it is one of the times here that i do feel free. >> friends who have stood by her have waged a social media campaign to get her out of prison. hashtag, free pam smart. it's not fair that the person who pulled the trigger's, free while she is not. >> it's awful -- what's left. >> what's left is that i have a petition to the governor, i'm asking that my sentence be reduced to anything. but life without parole. >> why do you believe that you should be allowed to walk free?
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>> i know if i get out of prison tomorrow, i'm gonna get a job, and i mean to be a productive citizen. and i just feel like enough is enough! >> in the past, members of gregg's family say they oppose her release. and as the convicted mastermind, she should serve more time than the others. bill spencer looks back on all the years of news coverage and sees a gaping hole. >> don't forget about greg smart. he is over showered, and has been overshadowed for many years. he's a young guy with so much ahead of him, and so much promise. he should be here now. >> pamela smart yet filed another petition with the state of new hampshire in 2015. she asked that her sentence be changed so she could have a parole hearing. andrew was a member of the council who considered her request. >> there were letters from inmates, family members.
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i learned that she accomplished a great deal while in prison. >> more than 500 pages about what's a good person pamela smart is. and then? >> i never wanted, nor asked mr. flynn to murder greg. >> ten little words grew -- blew her chance at a hearing to smithereens. again, she did not have responsibility for the murder. so the court would not grant her change of sentence. >> if she had omitted any reference to whether she was guilty or not guilty, and had simply focused on her good efforts while in prison, i would have voted for a hearing. >> i think the problem is that it is unpopular to say i will let her go when she is not taking responsibility for what happened. >> i am taking responsibility for what happened. >> but you have, it more direct responsibility. that you ordered this murder?
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>> storms will submit to something i did not do to get out of prison? i do not get? it >> he said he had more strong words for pummel smart. more than once he's called her sociopath. >> it's a personal opinion? >> it's a personal opinion. i don't want to bring a psycho analyst to her and analyze her decisions. maybe she's not a sociopath, maybe she is a smart woman. >> pamela smart wrote you a note. >> she did. she basically said that i don't have remorse, and i do have remorse about what happens with the boys and what's happened with my husband's death. and i wrote her back and said i get that remorse but you have never expressed remorse for planning the murder and taking responsibility for the murder. >> will you ever say, i did this. or i told them to do? this >> no. because they did not tell them to do this. i did not ask them to do that. and no i will not.
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>> so far, all of her petitions to be considered for parole have been denied. but she says she will never stop trying to win her freedom. >> that is all for this is edition of dateline. i am natalie morales. thank you for watching! this. >> i'm natalie morales. and this is "dateline". >> when am i going to get an answer for this? >> a dramatic chapter in a story of two mothers fighting for their sons. >> he knows he heard my sound bad. >> i believe every word my son 's heads and i'd still due to this day. >> missing team founded. >> his body was laying in the river clearing. >> we want answers. we want answers. >> was it murder? >> i said who beat my baby? >> or was it something else? >> he got out of the vehicle, swung on me. >> how do you get in a scuffle with somebody and the next thing you know your being charged with murder? >> a trial. >> i slowly watch my son die every day. >> heartbreak. >> nobody wins. >> and a twist that


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