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tv   Andrea Mitchell Reports  MSNBC  May 3, 2022 9:00am-10:00am PDT

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welcome back to a special edition of "andrea mitchell reports" with our breaking news today. the supreme court and chief justice john roberts confirming the leak of an opinion reported by politico, the draft from alito indicating the supreme court will overturn nearly a half century of legal precedent and strike down roe v. wade unless it's altered in the next couple of months. the draft written in february just after oral arguments on the mississippi case that barred abortion after the first 15 weeks of pregnancy could be changed. if it stands, it would remove federal protection for women seeking abortion, permitting states to make final decisions. 13 states have already passed so-called trigger laws banning
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abortion, the moment of supreme court would rule against roe. half the country has anti-abortion republican state legislatures and governors who might do the same. president biden made his comments at joint base andrews on his way to alabama in the last hour. >> the idea that concerns me a great deal that we're going to, after 50 years, a woman does not have a right to choose within the limits of the supreme court decision is number one. even more equally profound is the rationale used. it will mean every other decision regarding privacy is thrown into question. the rationale of the decision as released, were it to be sustained, a whole range of rights are in question, a whole range of rights. the idea with letting the states
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make those decisions would be a fundamental shift in what we have done. it goes far beyond, in my view, if it becomes a law and if what is written is what remains, it goes far beyond the concern of whether or not there's the right to choose. if this decision hoeltds, it's really quite a radical decision. i'm not prepared to make those decisions. the idea that we're going to make the judgment that is going to say that no one can make the judgement to choose to abort a child based on a decision by the supreme court i think goes way overboard. >> joining me is pete williams,
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tom goldshtein and yamisha tindor. pete, you obtained the full statement. take us through that. >> on top of the extraordinary leak comes an extraordinary statement from the court say, yes, this really was a leak. the supreme court says, although the document described in yesterday's report is authentic, it doesn't represent a decision by the court. then the chief justice says he has directed the marshall to launch an investigation. it was intended to undermine the integrity of our decision, it
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won't work. he said this was a singular and egregious breach of the trust that's an affront to the court and community of public servants who work here. the court decided after last night having no comment to say, yes, this is the real draft. but the court says, things can change. this is not the final opinion. we are nowhere near there yet. we will investigate how this leak happened. >> tom, let's talk about the broader issue of the court potentially overturning 49 years of constitutional law and rejecting precedent, which several of these justices had said they would stick to when they went through confirmation. certainly, that's what amy coney barrett, not that specifically because she waffled on it. but certainly that's what gorsuch and kavanaugh said. >> if it stands, it's going to be an earthquake in american law. a lot of people have taken for
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granted their right to an abortion was enshrined in the constitution. it has been debated by a lot of people. conservatives have been fighting against roe from the day it was decided. we recognize that the court's conservative majority has gotten to the point where they have the votes to overturn it if they decide to do so. it looks clearly that that's what they have decided to do. we do have two months left in the term. things can change. but we do know now concretely that five justices voted to overturn roe without any caveats at all and to return the question to the states and to eliminate the constitutional right. >> mississippi is one of the states that could immediately ban abortions if this is the eventual ruling of the court. what are you hearing from talking to people there in jackson? >> i have been outside the jackson women's health organization over my left shoulder. they are fully operational.
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continuing to provide abortions to women. for how long? mississippi is one of the states that has a trigger law that will allow the state to shut down this abortion clinic if roe v. wade is overturned. it's a regional issue. women in the state of mississippi will not be able to go to alabama or louisiana or tennessee or a number of other bordering states because those states, like 26 others, are expected to either ban abortion or heavily curtail is as soon as roe v. wade is overturned. the other thing i'm hearing is from the aclu. i spoke to an official who is very, very concerned that this is going to be gut wrenching to women and don't have the means they have to go to get the abortion. >> it's going to make it incredibly hard for women with lower economic means to have abortions, because they simply won't be able to travel to another state in time. people are leaning into the self-managed abortions. but abortion is an incredibly
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safe procedure. it's more dangerous to give birth than to have an abortion in mississippi. hopefully, we can enjoin this. >> that official also told me that she felt gutted when she heard about the news that roe v. wade was poised to be overturned. i also spoke to a protester who is an opponent of abortion rights. he told me he feels like this is god's will and this is the culmination of decades of conservatives. he is looking on the horizon saying if this abortion clinic is closed, he will start protesting against same-sex marriage and pushing for the supreme court to overturn that right. as you see on the conservative side, they are turning their eyes toward the next issue. on the democratic side, the liberal side you hear from people here on the ground saying that they are worried rights like same-sex marriage and other right wills be taken away.
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both sides politically thinking about what's next. of course, that comes ahead of the midterms where a lot people will have this top of mind as they go to the polls. >> going all the way back to the right to contraception, the original decision which undergirded roe v. wade. let's talk about the leak. you are the expert, you and pete the expert on the supreme court. it's not consensus always but trust. this had to come, do you think, from a clerk, from somebody in the conference? how did this happen? >> it's apparent from the way that politico reported that it's something in the building. they have confidence this is somebody who is working in the court. conceivably a justice. it would be shocking that they would undermine the confidence
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among each other. it's unclear exactly who it was. this has never happened that you had a draft opinion, particularly something so significant, released. the problem is that you can have a tit for tat game. then you have to worry about not just an important right like abortion, but the facts that the court is involved in cases involving billions of dollars. what happens if there are leaks with respect to that? i'm sure there is concern, practical and institutional concern about how the court is going to continue to function. the chief justice must be so upset today. >> pete, you and i talked about -- i wouldn't call it emotional, but you were there in the courtroom when pete said farewell for a court session to justice breyer on his potential retirement because it was the last time they would be together in the courtroom. this really punctuates, i should say, the change that they kind
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of represents to the way the court operated, friendships between scalia and ginsburg. talk more about what you know from knowing these justices and their relationships. >> i don't know what affect this will have long-term on the relationship of the justices with each other. i'm with tom on this. i think it's inconceivable that one of the justices leaked this. who knows? nothing is impossible. seems more likely a court staffer or a clerk. >> i was suggesting the confidentiality of the drafts that are being circulated which the clerks have access to, of course. >> right. it's very core r corrosive to t. the justices themselves, no, no, we are all pals, even though this is the most political it has been in decades, with the conservative super majority. no, no, we all get along. we're fine. who knows whether this is
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evidence of some deeper rift inside the court. i would say one other thing that has to be said about this. i think we can't lose sight of it. while this is an astonishly -- astonishingly leak, nobody should be surprised what it says. it was obvious the day the case was argued there were five votes to overturn roe. justice alito was in the majority. that tells us all we need to know. the outcome of this case, even though it's always sobering for the other side to see it in black and white, nobody should be surprised that that's where this is going to end up. >> do you think though, pete, that with the chief justice not exactly -- we don't exactly know where he will come down, he will probably write his own opinion. >> seems so. >> if he doesn't join this one.
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do you think there might be exceptions when this ends? could there be changes? >> sure. we know this happens three or four times a term where the lineup on a case shifts. what was the majority becomes the dissent and vice versa. i really don't think that's going to happen here. i think when those justices came into the courtroom on december 1, they knew exactly how they were going to vote. i think -- they thought about this for years. i don't think it's going to shift in the next few months when they see the niceties of the back and forth. what generally happens is as the minority -- or the majority and dissents change hands, some of the rough edges may get sanded off. the fundamental holding i wouldn't think will change. >> pete williams, tom goldshtein, thanks so much. democratic lawmakers have
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been joining protesters today. elizabeth warren spoke to the crowd moments ago. >> i am here because i am angry. and i am here because the united states congress can change all of this. [ cheering ] i have seen the world where abortion is illegal. we are not going back. >> julia ainsley has been getting reaction from the crowd. what are you hearing from those protesters? >> reporter: now we haveanother senator. they are confrontational. shortly after senator warren left, we saw them swarm her car. many against what she had to say to protect abortion rights as she left. we also saw a number of people here get in each other's faces.
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of course, it's a surprise that they would be here. it's not that they were organized. lots come from different states, happened to be here. some say they are now worried about what their states could do if roe v. wade is struck down as it appears it will be. they are talking about how different it will be depending on whether or not you live in a state where those rights are protected. we are hearing from people who are upset about the leak. i spoke to someone who is on the pro -- on the antiabortion side, who said he was upset about the leak and thinks it was done for political reasons in order to sway the justices. as we heard from the chief justice john roberts recently, we see they said they will not be in any way altered by this leak and that they are conducting an investigation. certainly here the crowd is getting larger, as you can see. we expect a rally at 1:00, more people 6:00 p.m. tonight. they put up more gates to protect the court.
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there are more police presence coming in as the protest grows. >> thank you so much. joining us now, planned parenthood president and ceo alexis magill-johnson. your website says one in four women in america will have an abortion by the time they are 45. how does this potentially impact millions of these women if this stands? i'm sorry. i don't think we have alexis. excuse me. i'm sorry. she's right here. >> sorry. >> she's right here. i am so sorry, alexis. >> it's okay. >> i was asking you about the fact that so many women, by the time they are 45, will have had abortions. >> absolutely. one in four.
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we have this right to have an access to abortion for 49 years. it's unconscionable that in the dark of night we get a draft opinion that talks about the fact that this court may have decided already to overturn access to abortion under roe v. wade. >> of course, the justices themselves most likely, according to the most informed opinion, were not involved in this leak. it's probably someone else inside the building is the most likely suspect, let's say. there's going to be an investigation. let's say this stands and it's not modified in the coming weeks and months before the end of june. what is the practical impact politically with a president inclined not to change the filibuster and a senate that in any case does not have 50 votes to overturn it or to create a ban, i should say? >> the practical implication for the patients is the fact that 26 states could move quickly to ban
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access to abortion. we know what that looks like now that we are eight or nine months into texas. we have seen people travel 1,000 miles out of state to get access to care. what it means politically is the fact that there are tons of electeds who have not stood on the side of access to abortion care, standing with our freedoms and rights, and there will be rage, as you know, in the streets. we have seen it in the statehouses, state by state in florida, arizona, as these restrictions have been enacted across the country. we are going to capture that rage. we are going to move that intoed midterm elections and ensure that people understand that this is -- we can't go back. >> senator murkowski said her confidence in the court has been rocked because people misled her during the confirmation hearings. clearly by at least the last three nominees. >> we were raising concerns to
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senator murkowski and collins about the last two nominees. they said they believed precedent was important and they would uphold under those circumstances. clearly, they were not accurate in their answers and responses. the consequences to that is the fact that we are now facing a complete overturn of a law that we have held as a protection of our freedoms for 49 years. >> what do you do next? >> we mobilize. we have seen since the confirmation of the last two supreme court justices, we have known this has been eminent. we have been planning on the provision side in relationship to providing care. planned parenthood along with other organizations have come together to make sure that not only are we focused on how we provide care but also how we mobilize and ensure that people understand what's at stake.
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as recently as a month ago, we were talking about something called the believability gap. 80% of the americans believe roe should be the law of the land. 30% believed that roe would be overturned. what we have last night is a clear indication if the draft opinion is true that this court will have closed that believability gap. it will be time to move into our mobilization plans. >> given the midterm elections and let's face it the likelihood that republicans will win one of the houses, the house of representatives if not both houses, what does that foretell of the passage of a total ban, if it does do this, is kick it to the states, but what has not been passed ever is a legislative congressionally passed either law upholding roe or banning. >> what senator schumer did was announce on the floor that we should be reconsidering the
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women's health protection act, an opportunity to codify roe in federal legislation. i wouldn't say -- i wouldn't be so sure the republicans are going to take the house and the senate, particularly now that this decision is down. we see people amping up, mobilizing. we are trying to absorb all of the energy we have seen in an unprecedented way after the election of donald trump. i think people are now holding that administration accountable for where we are. the complete weaponization of gerrymandering, rules change to move justices through the court. now they are completely out of sync with where majority of their constituents sit. they believe roe should be the law of the land. the court will take it away. they will have to hold electeds accountable. >> thank you for being with us. for the latest on public opinion about the potential reversal of roe v. wade let's turn to steve kornacki who has been digging into the polling
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data surrounding abortion for the u.s. steve, opinions vary on the topic, depending on how the question is framed. as well as how far along the pregnancy is. take us through it. >> exactly. a lot of variables when the look at the public opinion aspect of this. let's take you through a few of them. when you ask it as a bottom line question specifically around the roe v. wade decision, asking should roe v. wade be overturned, this is the latest gallop poll number. this has been study the last few years. different pollsters asking this question. you generally get a result like this. wide opposition when you ask about overturning roe v. wade. in this poll, 32% support, 58% oppose. when you ask about roe v. wade, that's roughly the response you are going to get no matter who is polling it. when you start to break this down a little bit more, that's where you see variance. this was an ap poll that came out less than a year ago.
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take it in a different -- a couple different levels. when the question is asked, in general do you think that abortion should be legal in most or all cases or illegal in most or all cases, this is what it looks like. 56% on legal. 43% on illegal. then when you start breaking it down by timing, by trimester, that's where you start to see shifts. look at it this way. abortions in the first trimester, strong support there, 61% for legal abortion in the first trimester. 61% to 38%. move ahead to the second trimester and that's where public opinion shifts. now you have 34% who say abortion in that time frame should be legal in most or all cases. you have two-thirds basically saying, it should be illegal in most or all cases. then you move to the third trimester, you see an even more
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dramatic movement. eight out of ten saying it should be illegal in most or all cases. again, broad support for roe v. wade as a concept. in general, you find a majority of folks think abortion should be legal in most or all cases. as you say, when you break this down by time, by trimester, you do see some very wide variants there. >> steve kornacki, thank you so much. joining us now, boston globe senior opinion writer kimberly atkins-store, former u.s. attorney joyce vance, who is a former prosecutor and erin carmen. how could this impact the public perception of the court? >> the court is in a very difficult position. there are a lot of concerns about the integrity of this court. everyone remembers that republicans in the senate
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refused to confirm president obama's nominee. now garland saying they couldn't do that in the last year before an election while rushing to confirm aimy coney barrett during the final days of the trump administration after voting had started in that election. in that diminished state, this court is poised to take the step of reversing a precedent of more than 50 years or close to 50 years standing, providing women with abortion rights. it's worth noting that this would be one of the first cases, major case where the court would curtail a right, take away a right as opposed to providing or enforcing one. it's a tough matchup, this diminished confidence while taking this serious step. the court will never be the same after this. there's a service e severe riskc will no longer trust the court. the courts don't have armies to enforce their opinion.
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they have to rely on the public's faith. taking this step to tarnish that faith is really an important and disappointing step. >> erin, in this leaked draft, justice alito refers to abortion rights as not deeply rooted in the nation's history. where do you think conservative activists will turn next, to same-sex marriage, other rights? >> it's interesting, because the opinion, at least the draft which john roberts said is not final necessarily, but going by the draft, you can see complaints conservatives have had about roe v. wade. the opinion has no consideration for the reasons that people need abortions, whether they are medical, personal, ready to parent or not. goes into different rationale that have been used to establish abortion rights, says it's not in the constitution, it's not grounded in the nation's
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history, but interestingly despite rejecting the constitutional underpinning of both roe v. wade and casey, he says this will be different, that abortion is different from other decisions that rely on similar precedent, similar constitutional reasoning, such as the right to marry, the right to use contraception, such as same-sex marriage, even though all of these opinions are deeply intertwined. he says it's different because in the view of many as he describes it, abortion is destroying an unborn life, but i might add that i'm old enough to remember that alito was the author of hobby lobby, which was an opinion that took at face value the discredited notion that the iud was tantamount to abortion, contraception is the same as abortion, even though there's no scientific mechanism showing that. i think that this attempt in the draft opinion at least to say that it will stop here and to be clear even if it would stop
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here, it would radically change the lives of millions of americans, but the claim that this would stop here i think does not pass muster either intellectually or politically given these are opinions the conservative movement has had in their crosshairs almost as long as they have been gunning for roe. >> kim, we are hearing from both senators collins and murkowski who were critical in the recent confirmations. senator murkowski saying her confidence in the court is rocked. senator collins saying that what this opinion says is inconsistent with what the justices told her in their meetings and in their testimony. this is a pretty significant breach. >> it is significant. i would say that the fact that roe v. wade appears to be on the verge of being overturned is not the shocker today. the justices of the u.s. supreme court themselves have been
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signaling that for some time. if that's the part that has surprised these members of the senate who voted to confirm them, then they haven't been paying close enough attention. the one thing that is, besides the leak itself, which we talked about, is the manner in which this opinion appears to ready to overturn that precedent. i agree with pete earlier in that roe looked like it was on its way out of the door. the way that justice alito absolutely eviscerated roe v. wade but also as we were just talking about, eviscerated the constitutional underpinning, which is the substantive due process right, and just sort of said, well, abortion is different, but the substantive due process right comes from the 14th amendment. that was passed in response to slavery, to try to fully make black people full forms citizens. if you look based on that, slavery has been permissible longer than outlawed.
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same-sex marriage, access to contraception, the ability of parents to take care of their children in a constitutionally protected way are newer than that. it's impossible to distinguish that in a constitutional analysis. i really worry about what will come next. >> we just have this statement from vice president kamala harris who writes the draft opinion is genuine. roe ensures a woman's right to choose. it protects the right to privacy. what is clear, she writes, is that opponents want to punish women and take away their rights to make decisions about their own bodies. republican legislators are weaponing the law. if the right to privacy is weakened, every person could face a future if which the government can interfere in the decisions you make for your
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life. that's vice president kamala harris. >> i think that is the vice president doing what i believe democrats have failed to do for the better part of a decade, prioritize how important the u.s. supreme court is, what it means for actual, tangible rights of americans. republicans have been clear about the important of the supreme court and the federal judiciary. this is part of the result of that. this isn't just an opinion that came out of nowhere. there has a consistent antiabortion movement that's well funded and republicans have dug into and have helped them win elections, win the ability to put justices on the supreme court and other courts. this is a direct result of that. >> thank you so much. thanks to kim, erin and, of course, to joyce. in question, how the supreme court justices appointed by donald trump are getting new attention for what they said about roe in their confirmation
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testimony. you are watching a special edition of "andrea mitchell reports" live from the supreme court only on msnbc.
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feinstein pressed kavanaugh and coney-barrett on their abortion rights. >> one of the important things to keep in mind is that it has been reaffirmed many times over the past 45 years, as you know. most prominently, most importantly, reaffirmed in planned parenthood versus casey in 1992. >> do you agree with justice scalia's view that roe was wrongly decided? >> senator, i completely understand why you are asking the question. but, again, i can't pre-commit or say yes i'm going in with some agenda, because i'm not. >> joining me now is senator horono. thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> you were in the hearings. having questioned those nominees, are you surprised they would sign on to this draft opinion? >> no. >> why not?
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>> because the right wing justices on this court, thanks to the trump justices, are poised to take away the constitutional right the women in our country have relied on for 50 years. they are prepared to undo rights that have been in place for decades. they have no problem with that. it doesn't surprise me. by the way, justice kavanaugh signalled his opposition to abortion rights in a really important case before the d.c. circuit. that's how he got to the front of the line for trump to nominate him to be a justice. >> what he said to senator feinstein was to indicate that he believed in precedent. >> you know what? this is practically a 50-year precedent. bs. he signalled strongly his opposition to abortion rights. this is what's happening as a result of all these justices being on this court. >> senator schumer will bring up the house bill to codify roe.
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senator sinema is against changing the filibuster. the president is not supporting changing the filibuster rule. he is not taking that on yet. don't know if that's going to change. what prospect is there of the senate joining the house and taking action to codify roe? >> we have to persevere. there are millions of women in this country who have awakened to the fact that they no longer control their bodies. what other constitutional right is going to be on the hit list? i can tell you. it's the marriage equality act which justices thomas and alito have signalled they would like to re-visit. in any view, the civil rights that we hold dear are all subject to being undone by this -- i would call this a radical supreme court. we need to mobilize at the state level where a lot of the battles are going to continue as well as
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elect more democratic senators. >> i wanted to show something that senator murkowski said this morning in the hallway to my colleagues. >> the leak is absolutely reprehensible and needs to be condemned in the strongest possible terms. i really find it shocking that this would happen. i understand it is unprecedented. second point is, roe is still the law of the land. we don't know the direction that this decision may ultimately take. but if it goes in the direction that this leaked copy has indicated, i will just tell you that it rocks my confidence in the court right now. >> more collins said this decision -- this draft is inconsistent with what those
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judges then said before they were confirmed with her vote, of course. do you think maybe even if sinema objects to changing the filibuster rule, you might have two republican women who say they were misled, might be part of a coalition? >> that's why we should get rid of the filibuster so we have a shot at passing the protection, women's right to an abortion act that the house passed. that would be a start. i think we knew this was coming. by the way, the fact that the republicans are more stunned by the leak than by this court prepared to take away a constitutional right of 50 years is astounding to me. sadly, not surprising. >> senator hirono, thank you very much. thanks for being with us today. >> aloha. >> aloha to you. former justice ruth bader ginsburg said we will never have true gender equality in the absence of women having
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reproductive freedom. joining me now is her former law clerk and a long-term personal friend as well. lisa, we last talked i think it was sadly right after the justice's death. you worked with her for so many years as a clerk. you knew her so well. what would she think of this leak? >> i think everybody -- all of the justices on the supreme court would be extremely upset about this leak. it undermines the institution of the court and the respect that our country should have for the court. this is a very unprecedented leak. deeply disturbing. >> justice ginsburg was precise about the law. she knew how to use that skill, swaying her colleagues famous.
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you were with her throughout that. >> yes. that decision came down -- it was '95/'96, it was a terrific decision, the last big majority gender equality, women's rights opinion which found that virginia had violated the equal protection clause in not allowing women to attend a state-sponsored school. >> let me interrupt you for a moment. i think senator schumer is speaking across the way in the senate. let's hear what he has to say. >> over 80 million women live in those states. if the report is accurate, the decision would be an abomination. one of the worst ever in modern
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history. of course, republicans have sought this outcome for years. you would think they would be celebrating such a decision. but they aren't. no, this morning republicans are shamefully scrambling, scrambling to try and distract from the main issue. republicans are spending all their focus on the leak because they don't want to talk about roe v. wade where they know they are on the wrong side of history and on the wrong side of american people. let me say it again. republicans are spending all their focus on the leak, because they don't want to focus on roe v. wade where they know they are on the wrong side of history and on the wrong side of the american people. try as they might, they can't distract from the truth. the blame for this decision falls squarely on senator republicans who spent years pushing extremist justices and judges while claiming this day
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would never come. but come it has. so in light of this potential ruling, i want to make three things very clear. first, it is our intention for the senate to hold a vote on legislation to codify the right to an abortion in law. second, a vote on this legislation is no longer an abstract exercise. this is an urgent and as real as it gets. we will vote to protect a women's right to choose, and every american is going to see which side every senator stands on. third, to the american people i say this, the elections this november will have consequences. because the rights of 100 million women are now on the ballot. to help fight this court's awful decision, i urge every american to make their voices heard this
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week and this year. call your members. write them. call your senators. write them. email them. text them. most of all, cast your ballots this november. because if roe v. wade is overturned, we have to assume there's more to come. the question is, what will these republicans, these right wing republicans target next? will they have the supreme court overturn griswald so they can prevent american women from contraception? they may say we wouldn't do that because of precedent. why would anyone believe them anymore. will they have the supreme court -- >> senator schumer raising the issues of what other rights constitutional rights that have been conferred on people by previous supreme court decisions could be overturned once precedent is ignored. back with me is justice ruth bader ginsburg's law clerk.
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speculation is that this came from inside the building. that's what all the experts are saying. that'ssuggested in the way they framed it. they first reported it last night. assuming it's not from one of the justices that we are talking about a clerk or others who are involved in circulating drafts, how does this change the relationships and the whole traditions of clerks being such trusted advisors, legal counselors, more than just an assistant? >> andrea, i don't think that it came from a clerk. i have a hard time believing that. for two reasons. i think clerks who go to the supreme court have tremendous respect for the court and for the workings of the court, the deliberation process, that the drafting and redrafting of opinions. so i don't see a clerk doing something like this. second, that was a february
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draft. it's now may. presumably, there have been many other edited rewrites of that draft. if it were a clerk, you would assume you would see a later version. that said, i have no idea how this go out. i find it quite disturbing, more disturbing, however, is the draft decision itself. what that means for our country. >> if it's not changed, if it's not -- if the hard edges are not buffed down in these -- in past weeks or in coming weeks and two months before we expect the decision, there were no exceptions here, this was categorical and reversed under decisions that strengthened roe, and griswald, the basis for roe,
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the decision that permitted contraception. >> yes. absolutely. it's a far-reaching draft of an opinion that overrules roe very explicitly and casey and looks at the entire substantive due process area of the law, decisions based on liberty, and those are numerous. what it distinguishes those decisions in the sense that those cases are not about, quote, the life of the unborn human being, those cases are based on this line of reasoning. so i think those, you know -- the jury is out in terms of what happens in those areas of the law as well, given the reasoning and rationale of this majority opinion. >> lisa, former clerk and i
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should say friend of ruth bader ginsburg, thank you very much for being with us today. >> andrea, thank you. battle zones. will the fight for abortion rights move to the states? we action from florida, which is a battle zone over abortion, that's coming next. you are watching a special edition of "andrea mitchell reports." we are live from the supreme court only on msnbc. ♪ ♪ it was time for a nunormal with nucala. nucala reduces asthma attacks it's a once-monthly add-on treatment for severe eosinophilic asthma. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occured. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your asthma specialist about a nunormal with nucala.
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welcome back. we are live at the supreme court with more on the reaction to this unprecedented leak showing in a draft opinion that a majority of the justices are ready to overturn roe v. wade, a precedent that has been in place for 49 years. joining us now is shaq brewster from jacksonville, florida, where last month the state signed into law a ban on abortions after 15 weeks. shaq, what's the next step in florida if this is upheld? this is the definition, is it not, of a trigger law which would immediately go into place? >> reporter: that would go into place july 1. potentially, days after when we expect the official ruling that we now have seen a draft of to go into affect. this is something that here in florida has been top of mind for many votes for some time. that law was signed just about three weeks ago. it includes no exceptions for rape, for incest or human trafficking.
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it was something that was fairly controversial at the time. this morning, we were talking to a lot of voters about this. it's something they have had top of mind. in terms of this draft ruling and their reaction to it, it's something that you can tell they are still digesting. many of them saying they just saw a headline and they didn't get into the weeds with it. didn't get into the weeds with it. they didn't want to get upset this morning. so she said we'll figure this out a little later. but there are already protests scheduled here in jacksonville later this evening. this is a county and this is one of the reasons we keep coming back here. it's a county that was a republican stronghold but went democrat in the past two national cycles. it went blue in the past two cycles in 2018 and then in 2020. the big question here is will this be an animated issue for voters here, especially in the area that has gone back and forth where folks on both sides of the aisle say there are a lot of swing voters. is this something that will drive voters to the polls in ways that other issues perhaps
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like inflation, education, it's not clear would in this cycle. so that is what a lot of conversations were centered around. it's clear people are still digesting this. the answer to that of how much of an animated issue this will be is not answered just yet. >> thank you so much. shaq brucer in florida. joining us now is the deputy director for the aclu reproductive freedom project. what is your reaction? do you have any hope from your perspective there will be changes before it's finally issued? >> obviously, i hope this is not the final decision and that the supreme court doesn't overturn roe v. wade. if it does, it will be devastating. there's already an abortion access crisis going on in the united states right now. we have seen it in numerous states where abortion is being pushed out of reach. this will mean if this is the
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decision to overturn roe v. wade, half the states will ban abortion almost immediately and that will have devastating consequences for so many people in the united states, including people who have the fewest resources, people from marginalized communities and it will be utter chaos and it will be horrific. >> what is your olympian of action at the aclu? >> so obviously, we're going to keep fighting. we're going to do everything we can do. in florida, the state constitution in florida protects abortion more than the federal constitution. that's a decision thalt florida supreme court reached years ago. so in places like florida where the state constitution protects abortion, we will be looking at those places and we'll be doing everything we can to make sure that people get the care they need in this country. >> let's talk about abortion as a medical procedure. because i have seen the data that it is very safe, currently
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safe in 99% of the cases. i don't know where that, that is from the cdc so that's pretty reliable data. tell me about what used to be the case before roe v. wade? >> abortion is much safer, incredibly safe. much safer than childbirth. and obviously, the roe v. wade when people had abortions that were not legal, they were dangerous. but that's not the situation we're going to be in today. it roe is overturned, abortion is very safe. even if taken without a health practice anywhere. it lies in the criminalization of people who induce abortion themselves. so what we are going to see if this happens like we saw in texas with a young woman who was arrested and charged with murder for self-inducing abortion,
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those charges were dropped, but we're going to see that as the danger of self-induced abortion as the criminalization. and the people who will be hit the hardest are black and brown people. and that's the real concern in terms of self-induced abortion because the medication itself is very safe. >> what are you already seeing with women in texas going to oklahoma and oklahoma has passed its own ban. you're seeing people traveling, but as you point out, a lot of women do not have access to the resources, the child care, the money to travel, the money to be off their jobs. >> absolutely. texas right now there's a human rights crisis. abortion is prohibited after six weeks in pregnancy. and people who have the resources and the ability to travel are doing that. straining the health care providers in surrounding states like you mentioned oklahoma. and people without the resources for ability to travel are being forced to continue their pregnancies against their will. this has devastating consequences.
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we're in a maternal mortality crisis in this country, particularly with with black mortality. if someone is unable to get an abortion that will have devastating consequences for their health and possibly their life. if people think overturning roe v. wade is the end game for the other side, they are mistaken. what they want is a been on abortion nationwide. and so even if you live in a state where abortion is now legal, you may think that if roe is overturned if you're in a state that protects abortion, that may not be the case long-term. so we need to protect abortion for everyone in every state. >> thank you so much for being with us. i know the aclu will be front and center in this legal fight on the side of trying to prevent this from happening, if it is the decision. but it certainly has been a bomb shell of a leak here at the supreme court. and i know this is opening up a
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whole new issue of abortion front and center in the midterm elections coming up as well. thank you very much from the aclu. that does it for this special edition of "andrea mitchell reports." we have been live from the supreme court. remember to follow the show online on facebook and twitter. msnbc will have continuing coverage all day. and about this very important potential legal precedent here at the supreme court. kristen welker is in for chuck todd up next with "mtp daily." todd up next with "mtp daily." [coughing] ♪ birds flyin' high, you know how i feel. ♪ ♪ breeze driftin' on by... ♪ if you've been playing down your copd,... ♪ it's a new dawn, it's a new day,... ♪'s time to make a stand. start a new day with trelegy. ♪...and i'm feelin' good. ♪ no once-daily copd medicine...
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with paycom, employees enter and manage their own hr data in a single, easy-to-use software. visit and schedule a demo today. welcome to "meet the press daily". i'm kristen welker in for chuck todd. it is election day in ohio and indiana. on any other day ohio's consequential senate primaries would be our lead, but all eyes are on the breaking news out of washington. late this morning the supreme court confirmed the authenticity of a draft opinion by justice alito posted last night. that opinion would overturn roe v. wade and send a matter of abortion access to the states. chief justice