tv The Sunday Show With Jonathan Capehart MSNBC May 8, 2022 7:00am-9:00am PDT
hopefully we will be able to continue this important conversation you've got yourself, until we are grateful for your time. robin diangelo is the author of white fragility. we have another author on deck, a special saturday edition of the velshi banned book club. rj palatka, author the bestselling children's book wonder, and white bird, a wonder story. white birds pacific lee is the coming late story of a white jewish girl coming of age in nazi germany. there are been calls to ban this in texas because it could lead to the skewing of a young child's life. we are gonna get into all of that next weekend. make sure the right into my story. get your comments and reactions. it is going to be a good. one you won't want to miss it. we'll catch you next saturday and sunday morning, 8 am to 10 am eastern. happy mother's day to all of you. the sunday show with jonathan kaye part is up next.
good morning. i am jonathan capehart. and this is a sunday show. this mother's day. breaking news out of ukraine. first lady jill biden crossed into ukraine this morning, and dr. biden met with her ukrainian counterpart. olena zelenskyy. for two hours. at the school housing displaced people. before crossing back into slovakia, just moments ago. according to nbc news, this is the first time the ukrainian first lady has appeared in public since the war began. we will have much more on ukraine with retired general stuff -- later in the show. but first, here in this country, the clock could potentially rollback on 50 years of women's reproductive rights. something the majority of americans oppose. wednesday, the senate will vote
on the women's health protection act of 2022. which would block an abortion rights before the supreme court could officially overturn them. the measure is expected to fail because of the filibuster. but the debate is a vital for true servicing these key facts. reproductive rights are an essential part of health care. nearly one in four women in the u.s. will have an abortion by age 45. and about six in ten of these women already have children. listen to congresswoman camilla talk about her own heartbreaking but potentially lifesaving decision. >> i had had a very difficult first pregnancy. my kids goes by they then pronounce, was born at one pound, 14 ounces, 26 and a half weeks. i went through postpartum depression, and that going through a divorce. and i ended up with a wonderful man after that. there are people who take birth control religiously and still
get pregnant. and so that's what happened to me. my doctor said, you know, there is no guarantee they are not going to have the same kind of birth. and so i decided to have an abortion. i realized how lucky i was. i also felt that shame, that we should not feel. but that is what our culture has done, is has made this a shameful act, instead of a self empowering preservation, choice act. >> joining me now are congresswoman camilla jayapal of, of washington state, chair of the progressive congress caucus. and karen bass, also a candidate for mayor of los angeles. congresswoman, thank you very much for coming back to the sunday show. congresswoman, let me start with you. there are folks on the right to cast the choice you and millions have similarly situated women have made, as one that was done cavalierly. but it wasn't, was it? >> jonathan, good morning. happy mother's day to you and
to my colleague, and to all the moms out there. no, it was not on cavalierly. it was a hard decision for me, probably the hardest i've had to make in my life. it is one i replied in my mind many times. and to thank god jonathan, that i made that decision because if somebody else had made that decision for me i don't know how i could have lived with whatever the decision was. and i think that is the important thing here. i don't think it has to be a tough choice. i think this is about choice regardless of whether it is difficult or easy. for some woman and pregnant people it is about there being able to plot their lives being able to plan when they want to have children into family. it is an economic security issue for many many pregnant people across the country. but for me it was extremely difficult and it was so nuanced. and that is the reason i spoke about it when i did i have not. talk about it for 15 years. have not told my mom about it.
took me a lot of time to really get through those years, as you saw. got emotional watching myself get emotional in that whole clip. because it is a hard, nuanced, complex decision. and nobody has the information to be able to make it, other than me. the. person who is going to end up living with a choice. >> that is where the keyed in on, nuance. so congresswoman, focusing this on men, what's don't men gets about the decision you found yourself having to make? >> well, it just makes me enraged that men are the ones who are trying to make this decision for us. by the way, if we try to legislate any kind of requirement on men around their private organs, their private choices, i think we would see a massive backlash that wouldn't
happen. men don't understand. and i'm not saying all men. my partner certainly did. men in my life understood this was my choice. but i think for those who are trying to tell us what we should do with our own bodies, they have to understand that this is not a choice they are going to live with. they are not the ones who carry the fetus for nine months, or for whatever time. they are not the ones who go through the trauma of having a child come out, that perhaps has serious issues in the future. these are all things that unfortunately today's society, women still are the primary caretakers. the primary decision-makers. that said, this is incredibly popular with man and woman and pregnant people across the country. 70% of people believe that a person should have the right to make choices about their own bodies, and that roe v. wade should remain legal.
it is not that abortion is going to go away, jonathan. it is still going to happen. but it won't be safe and legal if this opinion is overturned. and it will bear the disproportionate burden on folks of color, women, poor people. who cannot travel, who cannot pay thousands of dollars to get this procedure done. and that is really wet we are facing today. >> congresswoman bass, you are a former physician assistant way back at the beginning of your career. from that experience what is your biggest concern about on america without roe v. wade? >> basically, the idea that man or anybody else would determine what goes on in a doctor's office could you imagine if they had to ask permission, or it was outlawed, to have vasectomies? the idea that any medical procedure is not left
completely to the decision of the doctor and the patient, just is crazy but. but one of the things that really worries me about this decision is just the rolling back of time to states rights. and then, to me, when the court is moving in that direction, that raises a ton of other issues that were in the federal system, because of what was happening on the court. we see the right-wing takeover of many of these states, i can only imagine what other issues might come up. and the question would be, will the federal government, the supreme court, defend the rights of individuals? or will they say the states can decide anything? >> a lot of those, talking about the other issues that could be at stake as a result of that draft opinion if that were to become official. but congresswoman, 2007 profile of rick caruso, your major opponent in the race for los
angeles mayor, noted that he opposes abortion in most cases, but we support some stem cell research. any reaction to the leaked opinion, caruso tweeted that he is, quote, a father who is pro-choice. should voters believe him? >> i think that mr. caruso has been a lifelong republican. and recently became independence. in a couple of weeks before he filed to run, he became a democrat. so i think you look at someone's history and their positions and then you make a decision. los angeles is an overwhelmingly democratic city, so what i see is him trying to align with the electorate, but he has been inconsistent with positions that he is taken in his life. >> i will get both of the interest to response this question in the two minutes we have last. there is a vote in the senate set for this week to codify the rights to an abortion. predictions are that it will
fail. congresswoman jayapal, you first. if we are knowing it is going to fail, i know it is not your vote, it is the chamber, why is an important hold that vote? >> it is very important to get every senator on the record about where they stand on this issue. we are seeing republicans try to dodge and not talk about this issue, because they know how incredibly popular it is. but also, jonathan, if it fails on a strange voted to get 60 votes, which i assume they probably will, unfortunately, i would call on senators murkowski and collins to endorse a carve out to the filibuster. so that we can pass it. these are two women who have said that they are pro-choice. they certainly have talked about understanding the gravity of the situation we are in. and i think it is incumbent on them, now, to take on these justices who frankly, lied under oath about whether or not this question was settled law. with those two senators we
could pass this. we could carve out the filibuster with 51 votes. >> congresswoman bass, on the issue of the filibuster, senate minority leader mitch mcconnell said to usa today that if republicans retake the senate, they could be looking at a potential or possible national ban on abortion. so is taking getting folks on the record now part of, not an insurance policy, but the way of sending a signal to the country about what could come? >> absolutely. i think it is very important that that vote is taken. that people clearly see how significant the midterm election is. what is at stake. the supreme court decision is clear and i have no doubt that if the republicans were to take over both houses they would do exactly that. and think goodness president biden is there, because we know it would be vetoed. >> congresswoman jayapal and
congresswoman bass, thank you, as always, for coming to the sunday show. and still to come on the sunday show, first lady doctor jill biden crosses into war torn ukraine. meets with the first lady of ukraine. we will have more on that visit ahead. but first, we will dive into all the legal and political fallout from the supreme court's leaked draft opinion. and what it means for the legitimacy, reputation, and future of the supreme court. don't go anywhere. vero beach, florida. my wife and i have three children. ruthann and i like to hike. we eat healthy. we exercise. i noticed i wasn't as sharp as i used to be. my wife introduced me to prevagen and so i said "yeah, i'll try it out." i noticed that i felt sharper, i felt like i was able to respond to things quicker. and i thought, yeah, it works for me. prevagen. healthier brain. better life.
their country. we all have these amazing ukrainians who make this easy for us. and i don't know they do this, because in addition to being great journalists, they have left their normalize behind. >> it has been inspirational to see these journalist working, but also work with the local producers. we could not do what we do without them. >> they are amazing. >> if a woman's right to have a portion is overturned by the supreme court, not only would it be the rehearsal of a nearly 60-year-old president, but it also be the first time a constitutional right has been taken away. to make matters worse, senate minority leader mitch mcconnell tells usa today that if republicans retake the senate in the midterms, and if the high court does indeed toss roe,
a national abortion ban is, quote, possible. the political and cultural implications of what we now face are enormous. joining me now to talk about it all, christina greer, associate professor of political science at fordham university, author of black ethnics. the reverend al sharpton, host of msnbc politicsnation, and author of righteous troublemakers. and joining me in studio, msnbc legal analyst yell katya, former solicitor general of the united states. thank you all very much for being. here as you want that with me, i will start with you. am i being hyper bullet or hypersensitive or, what is the word that they use for liberals all the time? alarmist. by what i wrote in the draft opinion from justice leo? >> first of all jonathan, i have to say happy mother's day
to my mom but eva, my wife joanna, and you are not being alarmist. this is a radical draft opinion. it is only a draft. it does go so far as to overrule roe v. wade overruled planned parenthood versus casey. roe was a 7 to 2 decision it has been the law for 49 years, five of the seven justices in the majority were appointed by republican presidents. and this just tosses all of that. the most telling fact is that it lessens the mississippi law, which has no rape or incest exception whatsoever and says, hey, that is a okay. flat bans on abortion are okay. nationwide ban on abortion, which mitch mcconnell is talking about at the federal level, that would definitely be okay. it is a radical decision when it comes to abortion, and that is your piece in the washington post says, it also open these opens the doors to other dangerous decisions. >> and then and spacing next question i was going to ask, you which is, excuse me.
if roe v. wade is overturned, if casey is overturned, those two cases figure prominently in lawrence of a texas, in obergefell, which legalized marriage equality. i am not wrong in thinking that it opens the door wide for those decisions to be overturned. >> it does open. it it's matters a door. roe v. wade is kind of a super precedent, because in 1992 republican justices came together on the supreme court. o'connor, souter, and kennedy. and they said look, row is controversial. maybe it is right. maybe it is wrong. but it has been the lava land for more than 20 years at that, point and social expectations have crystallized around it and the court's legitimacy would suffer massively if we try to overrule it. that is where the supreme court started. they started with roe v. wade. the hardest decision. if you can overrule roe, you
can overrule anything. the test they used, which -- got into, is to say that it has to be deeply rooted in the nation's history and tradition. which is the threats today marriage. is the threat of laws that prohibit contraception, even among married couples. it is a threat to so much. >> professor greer, i would love to get your reaction to this. but also from the perspective of the impact of overturning roe v. wade and casey, what would that have politically and culturally in this country? if that draft or anything close to it becomes the official ruling from the supreme court? >> absolutely jonathan. we have not been histrionic as democrats,, and especially black women have been very clear that we need to get to the polls, and look at the top down approach. it is not just about the presidency. we have 14 of these 47 republican senators up for reelection, jonathan. we know that it is incredibly important for us to not just
look at the primaries, but this month, the next month, in many states, we have to get out there in november and make sure that we increase this very slim majority that the democrats have. this is a conversation about, as setmayer -- katyal told us, white supremacy, patriarchy. so many women white women specifically, we -- upholding patriarchy and rights woman. this is not about being pro-life. it is pro-choice or antichoice. does a woman have autonomy over her own body? we have seen time and time again that male republican senators are especially eager to take this right away from women across the country. and i don't know jonathan, why they think we won't have sex. people have sex. we are mammals. so to take away a woman's right to truth, to take away her right to contraception, is a really dangerous and slippery slope that a lot of democratic women, especially, have been ringing me along for for many years. >> reading that decision, i
felt like i was reading text from another time, which i am sure i was. reverend sharpton, let's talk about the politics of all this. as professor greer mentioned, the midterms are coming up. there is an incredible yougov poll that came out, showing that the majority of americans do not want roe v. wade overturned. there is an interesting stat here, which says that the survey found registered voters initially preferred a generic democrat over generic republican. 44% to 39%. but when they asked voters to choose, instead, a pro-choice democrat in a pro life republican, gop support fell to 31%, and the democratic support held steady. is this, if the supreme court does with the alito draft opinion says officially, is it really a campaign issue? and the winning campaign issue?
for democrats going into the midterms? >> i think it is definitely a winning campaign issue. if the democrats message it right and gets out to the base of the democratic votes, and the independent voters, what is at stake here. because again, this is not about whether you agree with people having abortions or not. it is whether you agree with choice. and whether you agree with going back to having a states right model. we must realize and emphasize, jonathan, that with the supreme court we will be saying, if they are anywhere close to what's the leaked opinion has said, we are going to put it back to mississippi. let the states decide. roe v. wade was decided wrongly. then they can come back and do
that but and instead of dividing polity, say this about lgbtq rights or voting rights or civil rights. there is a reason why in the civil rights movement, they went to the national government to guarantee certain things over states rights. so what we are seeing here is a states rights movements around women's rights to choose. if the democrats make that argument, it will be broadened in that base, do not only women activists but black activists and latinos and lgbtq. we are all at stake here, and we need to understand that. i think that will be determining factor in the midterm elections, if they message it, probably. >> if folks aren't awake now after what we just read in those pages, i don't know what is going to wake them up. don't go anywhere, christina rival and neil are coming back. more after the break.
but later, my take on the warning justice alito is sending to lgbtq americans in this leak draft opinion on abortion. keep it right here. ♪ ♪ i'm way ahead of schedule with my trusty team ♪ ♪ there's heather on the hedges ♪ ♪ and kenny on the koi ♪ ♪ and your truck's been demolished by the peterson boy ♪ ♪ yes -- ♪ wait, what was that? timber... [ sighs heavily ] when owning a small business gets real, progressive helps protect what you've built with affordable coverage. my a1c stayed here, progressive helps protect what you've built it needed to be here. ruby's a1c is down with rybelsus®. my a1c wasn't at goal, now i'm down with rybelsus®. mom's a1c is down with rybelsus®. (♪ ♪) in a clinical study, once-daily rybelsus® significantly lowered a1c better than a leading branded pill.
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itself. we must not stand by as the people of ukraine and their freedom parish. as they say in these streets of this country, so ava ukraine, glory to ukraine. >> we are back with our expert panel to discuss possibly overturning roe v. wade. neil, you took issue with something i said in the last block. what was it? >> he was said this was the first time that the supreme court had taken away this right. unfortunate the court is taking away rights before. take for example devoting rights act which i defended successfully 2009. only two of the supreme court in 2013 right away, saying that the voting rights act was unconstitutional in the shelby county case. here is why this is so significant for this debate. the window draft says we should return the issue to the people, to the voters. this is a republican party which has been done, trying to
take the boat away from people time and time and again. you cannot talk the language of democracy on monday and then the other six days of the week, try to rip it away from the american people or invade the capital in order to do so. it is just not a possible argument in today's society. >> professor greer and reverend sharpton we have got to talk about justice clarence thomas and a comments that he made. i want to put it up on the screen. he said, as a society we are becoming addicted to watching particular outcomes. not living with the outcomes we don't like. we can't be an institution that can be bullied into giving you address to the outcomes you want. the events from earlier this week are symptom of that. professor greer, all i could think was, are you serious? are you serious? >> >> all right and i read and re-read, re-read that at that jonathan, several several times. times. because largely because clarence clarence thomas is thomas is responsible for responsible for aiding and aiding and abetting abetting the that erosion of our religion of institutions and
our our institutions -- democracies, to say nothing of his wife. so the fact he would actually write that lets us know that he is so detached and so committed to his right wing white nationalist philosophy of dismantling american democracy, on a whole host of levels. and as you and neil have pointed out, it started with voting rights two years ago. it is now in the moment with women and roe v. wade. but we know it will extend not just to gun control but lgbtq+ rights and contraception and so many other things. we cannot count on clarence thomas to have a clear eye and on any of these matters. we know that he is really committed to taking right away, not just on african americans, but the larger american public at large. >> and read, i would love to get your insight on what justice thomas said there. >> first of all, i think he is making it clear that what judge alito said is exactly what he and others were willing to
support. secondly, if he is talking about people not liking or being addicted to outcomes, tell his wife that about the 2020 election. >> exactly. >> she was not ability election protests, and she was done in january 6th and she try to act like that election did not happen. but thirdly, i think that what is very telling is that he is not arguing about the constitutionality of the rightness of whatever decision you are coming with, he is talking about people's popular view of going along with it getting used to it, get over it. he is not talking a law. which is the politicization of the supreme court. and that is why people are losing a lot of faith in the court because he is actually saying, i'm not arguing the law. i'm arguing about you. and you get over it if you
don't like my view. and i think that is dangerous. and that is something that we need to deal with. >> professor greer, you guys were assisting tanya responses. so we have a little bit of time left. but, professor greer, one of the things that leapt out at me in that leaked draft opinion from justice alito is a whole thing in there about the court shouldn't have to be concerned about reputational damage if they were to do, if they were to overturn roe v. wade. to my mind, what justice alito is doing, speaking of bullying, is trying to believe the chief justice of the supreme court. i would love your view on that. >> yeah, as someone who has the honor and privilege of speaking to the future minds of the american public every week, as a college professor, i see the fact that they have no faith or very little faith in the supreme court as an institution.
and, as i try to teach them about the separation of powers, as we walk through federalist 51 and think about checks and balances, they are absolutely disgusted to think about supreme court justices as hyperpartisan beings. in this particular moment, when we know that it is so important for us to pay attention to who are senators are, because the president is a president who dominates the justices and the senate are those divisions who confirmed said justice. so, i'm helping them understand the interconnectedness and how we can actually help influence the future of the court somewhere down the line. but i think that the opportunity, the missed opportunity for bracco boma the puzzle one else on the court, thanks to mitch mcconnell, it was a failure of merrick garland being put on the court. the failure of ruth bader ginsburg stepping down. the fact that donald trump was able to put in several justices and we know that they lied under oath about have a feel about roe v. wade. so, we're seeing this time and time again. i think young, people
unfortunately, are getting so disgusted with the hyper partisanship. especially the white nationalist hyperpartisan ship of the supreme court. it's actually turning them off and it's our job to help assure them and put them in the center of their own democracy. >> neil, we're out of time, but i want to give you an opportunity to give us some final thoughts on the legal stuff that is presented by this alito opinion. what should we be paying attention to as we wind our way to the end of the court's term? >> it's not just the bottom line that roe v. wade is overturned, it had i got there. the alito draft has this historical ridiculous test that he'll turn back the clock and threaten everything from gamers to contraception laws to possibly even brown versus board of education. we'll probably flank their test. this is the result of a radical move by mitch mcconnell and others, who monkeys with the court, and the fruits of that are now, unfortunately, starting to be seen by the
american people. >> wow, neal katyal, christina greer, reverend al sharpton. thank you all very much for coming to the sunday show. coming up, the first lady, doctor joe biden, goes to ukraine to meet the first lady of ukraine. while russian president vladimir putin prepares for russia's most important holiday tomorrow, victory day. we will have all of the latest developments from that region next. thm at regio next ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪
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and in just a day or so, russia will kick off celebrations of a victory. day one of its most important holidays, celebrating the soviet triumphs over the nazis in world war ii but as russian president vladimir putin's war on ukraine now stretches into day 73, few battlefield victories to celebrate. real fear is mounting about the desperate moves putin could make over the next few hours, to spin himself up victory ahead of tomorrow's military parade. joining me now is msnbc military analysts general -- thank you for coming back to the sunday show. there are reports that putin is faced with two options. declare victory or officially declared to the russian people that they are at war with ukraine. first. if putin declares victory, how would he define it? >> we'll, if he declares
victory it will probably look at mariupol. our kherson. as a victory for the russians. as you know, mariupol has been in the news as of late. we have seen them change ukrainian science. on roads and buildings and so forth, to russian signs. changing the currency, they're doing the same in-person. there has been some small victory for, them both in mariupol and kherson. the problem is taking those two in claiming victory and adding light. and this will also give them the opportunity to spend his propaganda machine to his people there and russia. that they are succeeding. and also send the message to the west they are succeeding, and they are going to continue to fight. >> would other -- lori oscar this other question in a second. let's get to the second part of my two part question. general toonie.
if putin officially declares war and orders a draft, how might that go over with the russian people? >> i don't think it is going to go over well. you are starting to see some fray with the russian people, this war is not going as expected with putin, as you know. we earned a 72 or 73 the russians have been fighting for quite some time. they expect for this war to be over in four days. and we are, at this point now. he has not had much to show for it. no successes at all. some tactical success. but now strategic success. and so if he calls a draft that needs more people from the populations, the suns, would be coming through. the population attorney to go about. and we already know that the constructs that he is already
called up, he will have to keep those. keeping those on for an extended length of time during a war, i just don't think that is going to go well with the russian population, given that this is just supposed to be a special operation. >> right. there is reporting in the washington post and the front page about how russia tossed molotov cocktails into recruiting centers because they don't want to be conscripted, they don't like what is going on. also in the papers today is the fact that the russians are retreating from kharkiv. and this is important. they realize that kharkiv is ukraine's largest city. so you can take that recruits and the rhetoric from the capital city of kyiv. which we take from that? >> you should go couple of things. you saw the russian performance up in kyiv. they just did not magically get
their takes a while to prove things like logistics. it takes a while to professionalize a non commissioned support. and the other thing is, the lack of morale with the russian army. you take all those and you put it on the ground again, kharkiv and other places, it is the same force, just a pig with lipstick on it. when you are dealing with now is a force that although it is fighting in the east and the south, they still can't get their act together. the ukrainians are getting better and better each day. they are tagging areas such as logistics. they know that that is a weak point with the russians. they stand agile. they stand flexible. they are not letting the russians get them pinned down in the defense. and so, but in addition to the u.s. and nato weapons which are
improving the ukrainians in this fight as well. you put all that together, we are who we are. the russians still have not made much gains here. >> real fast. general twitty. and you could send on your part as a member of the military about these stories revealing how much or help the united states has been giving the ukrainians, whether it is the weapons that are going over, but more importantly potential intelligence help. does that help or hurt the effort >> it obviously helped. when i will tell you is, we have to be careful how we talk about this. our national security is at stake here, as well as our method and our sources are at stake. and so i would prefer not to talk about this at all. i think it is no secret. we were giving the ukrainians intelligence before the war started. if you remember when the
russian started assembling along the borders in belarus, with the intelligence -- our nato partners also provided intelligence. but we continue to talk about it, given that our own national security is at this stage, here, jonathan. >> we're tired of journey general staff twitty, thank you, as always, for coming to the sunday show. coming up, if you are not terrified yet, you should be. next, my take on the clear warning justice samuels leaked draft opinion on abortion is sending to the lgbtq americans. don't go anywhere. go anywhere. what's it like having xfinity internet? it's beyond gig-speed fast. and it can connect hundreds of devices at once. that's powerful. unbeatable internet from xfinity. made to do anything so you can do anything. you know liberty mutual customizes your car insurance,
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didn't fully understand just how dependent my same-sex marriage is on a woman's right to have an abortion. now i do, and i'm terrified. the tremors of this political earthquake reach me the next day in los angeles, during a conversation with ian mackie. that out gay state representative who went viral with his impassioned speech against not just legislation targeting trans kids. he pointed out the underpinning for lgbtq rulings, including burden feld versus hodges, the 2015 decision that legalized same sex marriage. without row and a few other valuable high court decisions that guarantee our rights to liberty and privacy, the foundation for obergefell's gone. and then more than 568,000 same-sex marriages perform since then, including my own, could be invalidated. as he told me later in an email, griswold, loving, row, lawrence and oh bigger fell survive only
together. one without the other is nonexistent. the rights of the marginalized are bonded together in writing through these decisions to form a single thread. if one tears the entire fabric is undone. i didn't doubt mackie's warning but, after finally wading through alito's 90 page draft, my fear is off the charts. the first of mary ad red flags appears on page five. he writes, the constitution makes no reference to abortion, and no such right is implicitly protected by any constitutional provision, including the due process clause of the 14th amendment. that provision has been held to guarantee some rights that are not mentioned in the constitution, but any such right must be deeply rooted in the nation's history and tradition. think about this. america has a lot of rights not deeply rooted. for instance, racial integration in our 245-year-old
haitian is just 57 years old. marriage equality is nearly seven. after moreland 60 pages of questioning the definition of privacy and exploring rationales for overturning precedent, alito makes and as astonishing assertion. nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion. justice alito must think we're fools. if roe must be overturned because it's hopelessly flawed, then how could it is 63 conservative majority resist taking alito's radical thinking to its logical and? even if the final ruling in the next month or two isn't as radical as has draft opinion, what alito put forward is a clear warning to lgbtq americans. that our rights could be stripped next. coming up, in our next hour, we will go deeper with color of changes rashad robinson on just
how dependent other privacy rights are on a woman's right to choose. and the risk a post road world poses to many of the civil liberties we take for granted. also, we'll take you live to dnipro, ukraine. the latest safe haven for ukraine's internally displaced refugees. but a new target for russian aggression. and we will have more on first lady dr. jill biden's visit with the first lady of ukraine on this mother's day. and later, some fresh faces here and ready to sound off on those other sunday shows. what did i just say? stay with us. more ahead, on the sunday show. [coughing] ♪ birds flyin' high, you know how i feel. ♪ ♪ breeze driftin' on by... ♪ if you've been playing down your copd,... ♪ it's a new dawn, it's a new day,... ♪ ...it's time to make a stand. start a new day with trelegy. ♪...and i'm feelin' good. ♪ no once-daily copd medicine...
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and business is good. unbeatable internet from xfinity. >> welcome back to the sunday made to do anything so you can do anything. show. i'm jonathan kaye part. the senate is set to vote wednesday on the witness protection act of 2022, and attempt to lock in abortion rights before a potential supreme court overturning of roe v. wade. but the democratic push is expected to fail, due to the 60 vote threshold required to over come a republican filibuster. and post row america could be a very different place. more like gilead, from the handmaid's tale, then america. >> now i'm awake to the world.
i was asleep before. that's how we let it happen. when they slaughtered congress we didn't wake up. when they blamed terrorists and suspended the constitution, we didn't wake up then either. they said it would be temporary. nothing changes instantaneously. in a gradually heating bathtub you would be boiled to death before you knew it. >> for those of you rolling her eyes, saying it's dramatic. think about this. reality maybe much darker than this fictional television show, when you take away a woman's right to choose. america has the highest maternal mortality rate among industrialized nations. much of the contributing factors for that tragic statistic traced back to poverty. lack of access to health care, unstable housing and limited access to transportation, to name a few.
take a look at these two maps. the map on the left shows the 23 states that would outlaw abortions if roe is overturned. the map on the right shows poverty rates by state. notice anything? the states most likely to ban abortions also have some of the highest poverty rates in the nation. and experts are already predicting that maternal mortality rates could increase by 20% or more in those states. that's just the tip of the iceberg. earlier, i spoke with senator amy klobuchar about this uncharted territory. senator amy klobuchar, welcome to the sunday show. >> well, thanks >> thanks jonathan. it's great to be jonathan, great to be back. . >> back. >> so, senator, it's been months since the house passed senator, it has been months since the production act was installed in the senate. other any discussions on your side of the aisle about doing away with a filibuster, in order to get it passed?
>> first, let's step back and look at that house about you just brought up. not one republican voted to codify roe v. wade into law, and protected 50 years of 50 women's rights. not one. if it comes over to the senate, i fear we are going to see the same. they're so, regardless of what the senate rules are, and i think you know i do support getting one of the filibuster, and there has been exceptions from everything from conversation to space accidents, to an exception to the filibuster for arm sales, i think he doing it here. but at the point of it is that the real crux of this is that republicans will not give us the vote, regardless, it appears, to be able to put this into law. of course we think everybody should be where we are in quantifying roe v. wade, in criticizing this leaked opinion
that goes further than anyone could imagine. but this is the moment we must have a vote, and from there, if we are unable to get republicans on this we marched straight to the ballot box. and i tell people this. don't get mad. i say, get mad and vote. >> senator colin and murkowski, have both a signal that they are willing to take a second look at the w. h. pathway they have also, earlier this year, introduced their own legislation that includes a conscious measure in it. is that something you would go along with? their proposed legislation? if the w. h. create does not pass? >> well, obviously we are going to keep talking to them. the fact that they are pro-choice and are willing to say it is really important. but the point is there is a big difference between these two bills. our bill put roe v. wade into law. the protections of roe v. wade.
the issue i have with their bill is that it actually summits into law some of the limitations that we have already seen. and we keep seeing states doing things in missouri. a bill was just introduced it says we should sue woman if they crossed the border to seek an abortion. in louisiana, a bill that is actually advancing the would make it a homicide to have an abortion after an egg is fertilized. these are the kinds of things that we are seeing. and of course, really shockingly, 15 states now looking at limitations and what we call medication abortion, which a lot of young women are doing, ordering medication online. for all of the stuff going on right now. we have good reason to say no. we are going to put all of the provisions of roe v. wade into law. that is the best way to protect a woman's right. best way to say to the supreme court, no, you cannot strip
away 50 years of women's rights. our main point is this. most of the public, 75% by some polls, of republicans are with. us the question really is, who should make these decisions? a woman and her doctor, or ted cruz? why would we not make sure that women have equal rights under the law? why would we tell this generation, this new generation, i am sorry, you're going to have less rights than your mom or your grandma. that is the problem with this opinion. it is so intense in terms of what it says when it leaves with the word abortion is not in the constitution. we know a lot of other things are not in the constitution, either. privacy. the word she is not in the constitution. but he is in the constitution, 25 times. >> senator, you mentioned senator ted cruz. the most powerful republican in the senate. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell. he told usa today in an interview that it is a
possibility that republicans would to do away with the filibuster in order to get through a national ban on abortion. your reaction to that? >> this is the problem. they are talking about introducing a ban or one proposal that was only six weeks, essentially a ban. they are talking about a ban in the oval course shown the ability to do this, before when they ran through the supreme court justices, and change the filibuster for that. this again gets to my argument that this is about the ballot box. if in fact we can get to 52 democrats, or even more with the fantastic candidates that we have in the u.s. senate out there, including judge beasley in the state of north carolina she is an incredible candidates. including bell damning ten in florida. including our candidates that we are about to get through
primaries and pennsylvania and wisconsin, two critical states. ohio, you marched through the country. . we have an ability with the american woman voting with us, in a cold show. they don't have their rights taken away. and the man that stand with them, voting with us,, that is what we are talking about. this is on the ballot. their rights are on the ballot. >> you know senator, folks who pay attention to this issue know that there is a connection between poverty and access to abortion. so with inflation at historic levels, costs of living increasing, and wages largely stagnant, is the government prepared for the number of women on welfare to drastically increase? and they are forced to have children? >> i don't think our republican colleagues who are trying to do this for 50 years, now they
want to talk about this as a leak instead of owning for what they've wanted all this time. i don't think they have it all dealt with the second question that you just asked. this is an economic issue, in that first of all women who have less resources, women who are poor, it is disproportionately hurts them. women of color. think about a waitress in the heart of texas who has got to make a decision. does she have to go take a bus, got 250 some miles go to another state and she doesn't have the days off. if you're going to quit her job to do that? are they going to help with childcare? which they have not done. turn this down every inch of the way when it comes to trying to put more resources into things like health care and childcare. that is the crux of the issue here. this is also an economic issue for the woman of this country. >> i have to ask you this. how concerned are you that the united states of america could actually become the fictional
gilead of handmaid's tale? >> this opinion is so extreme that when you look at the words when they say abortion is not in the constitution, he literally isn't taking us back. he's taking us back to the 50s. now the 1950s, the 1850s. he actually if -- the status of abortion backgammon was criminalized in the 18 60s. that is with the mindset. is they have pushed through these extreme justices who are now in the highest court of the land, but guess what? when that happens in america, that is what we have three branches of government. that is why we have a congress that has to act. that is when you allow people in a democracy to go to the polls and push back with who they'll act. so i am concerned about how extreme these justices are. and what they are sending out to do, they seem to have no respect for precedent or women's rights. and now it is on the people of this country to respond.
>> senator amy klobuchar, from the great state of minnesota. thank you very much, as always, for coming to the sunday show. >> it was going to be on,, thanks jonathan. >> join me now is a seal richards, co-chair of american bridge, and former president of planned parenthood. social, great to see you again. thank you for coming to the sunday show. happy mother's day. >> thanks. >> even before this leak decision, republicans were floating the idea of a nationwide abortion ban after six weeks of pregnancy. what would that look like for women across the country? >> well, much right now this decision or this opinion that has been leaked, would mean that roe is no longer in effect. and half of the country would lose access to safe and legal abortion. that is about 36 million women. what we are already hearing
from the republicans is that they are poised to introduce a six-week abortion ban. believe me jonathan, if they are successful and taking control of congress this november, that will be the first thing that they. do what that means is that all of the states that are rushing now to try to protect abortion access so that people would have somewhere to go, those laws will no longer be in effect. we would then be blanketed with a national abortion ban in this country, and will become a place where safe and legal abortion was not exist in. as you know, as has been reported by so many people making abortion illegal it would not mean that abortion does not exist. it would simply mean that it is unsafe, and women in this country are going to be in severe danger. >> in march missouri introduce the off first of its kind law that would make it illegal for residents of missouri from going across state lines to obtain an abortion. let's just say that the
national band does not going to affect. how terrifying is it that legislators will go to that extreme to prevent people from leaving state to go and seek health care? >> no, exactly jonathan. this is not the end of the story. this is just the beginning of the story. the goal of the republican party, as senator klobuchar said, is to make abortion completely illegal regardless of the situation. i am in the state of louisiana right now, which has been introduced in his moving legislation that would criminalize abortion, puts a woman in jail, make it a felony that is potentially punishable by death. these folks are very serious. as you say, it is going to affect people who have the least access to health care already. i come from the state of texas, where abortion has essentially been almost completely banned since last september. i'm hearing from folks on the
ground. the woman who are trying to access abortion outside of the state, many have never been on a plane. they already have children. they're trying to figure out how to get into a car and drive hundreds of miles away, in some cases. in these cases, the idea of transportation is not a challenge, it is an impossibility. if we see this opinion come into effect, there will be so many states where you can't get access to abortions, that for many women there will be no other options. >> and then there is the other field is out there to seal, that contraception could be next. could be the next target made illegal but. >> 100%, jonathan. we are seeing in texas, again now, an effort by republicans to begin to figure out a way to ban access to kinds of birth control that they don't agree with. emergency contraception. and the like. are you days.
very commonly used forms of birth control. we are going to see that across the country. i just don't believe, once the republicans allow the furthest, most extreme part of their party to begin charge, that they are going to continue in this fashion. and as you have said and others have written about, it is not going to stop with abortion. the very underpinnings of the right to make your own decisions about your body are the same logic that we use in the constitution to protect the right to marry who you want, to have access to birth control. all of these rights are at risk out of this very politicized supreme court. >> i want to talk about one more thing, social. i heard this from our day on morning joe earlier this week. she wrote in the new york times. where she said that people she has been in touch with, woman she has been touched with, have been deleting period tracking
apps from their phones because they are afraid that that will be the next frontier and the abortion fight. and as one of my producers pointed out, that data is not covered by hipaa. what are you telling women about this? do you think that this could become an issue, as well? >> absolutely. it is terrifying. it's like we're living in a police state. once you take away the rights of people to make their own decisions about pregnancy we've been reading a lot about efforts to track planned parenthood. trump their information. this is terrifying. you can only imagine, it is one thing for you and me to be talking about this, but can you imagine being a young person in the state of texas or mississippi or louisiana, a place where you literally, by law, cannot turn -- in the state of texas, you cannot turn to a trusted adult or health care provider, or anyone, because the risk is
that they will then be turned into the state for helping somebody wasn't unintended pregnancy. this is a frightening development. unfortunately the republican party seems willing to take it to its farthest extreme. >> right. now senate minority leader mitch mcconnell saying it is possible to end the filibuster in order to institute a national ban on abortion. that makes what you just said very very real. so seal richards, thank you very much for coming to the sunday show. >> still to come on the sunday, show president biden and other leaders are meeting now with ukrainian president vladimir zelenskyy. we will have more on that meeting. but, first straight ahead. it is not going to stop at abortion, because it was never just about abortion. my next guest explains how other privacy rights like contraception, same sex, and even interracial marriage could be on scotus's chopping block in a post row world. it is a conversation you do not want to miss.
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beyond the concern of whether or not there is a right to choose. >> who knows what's next. marriage equality, there are so many things that are rooted in privacy in the constitution, that they could go after now. >> do you think, for a second, same sex marriage is safe in the united states of america? give me a break. >> and his draft opinion overturning roe, justice alito states, quote, nothing of this opinion should be understood because doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion. but, as i asked in the last hour, can we really trust of the supreme court to not overturn any other fundamental right? like the right to marry? joining me now is the president of color of change, rashad robinson. rashad, thank you for coming back to the sunday show. i'm just going to ask that question. how big of a threat is this leaked opinion draft to same-sex marriage or any other
privacy related case? >> well, it's been said by many before me. when people show you who they are, believe them. i think, time and time again, this court and a larger white right-wing has shown us what their agenda is. they would like nothing more than for all of us who care about various issues of justice and equality and freedom to go into our individual corners and fight for our issues on our own. and not recognize the larger strategy at play. and this is a larger strategy, to both take this country back but to chip away at all of the rights and the hard-earned victories of so many different communities. it is not just how those court will take away a woman's right to choose, but it will also take on all of the other range of issues that have been connected. whether it is marriage equality, whether it is his rights of consenting us adults to be intimate. so many issues are on the line here.
and we cannot fight issue by issue, we have to work together to build the type of momentum that takes us into elections and beyond. that is the only way we are going to overcome what is in our way. it will not be about winning on individual issues, but about recognizing a larger strategy and building collectively together. >> so, we know from the yahoo news yougov poll that -- percent of american people support abortion rights. we know from the gala poll that support for same-sex marriage is the highest it's ever been, that 70%. and yet, we see, in that 98-page draft opinion, that what the american people care about or what is immaterial to the ideological desires of that 63 conservative majority. >> absolutely. this is why it's so, i think, important we are communicating.
that, when the right-wing is in control, they make our lives worse. we have to recognize, whether it is on this issue or others, that we have to actually fight the people and the institutions that are making us less safe. not the policies alone. because, when we fight the policies alone, we end up in these individual conversations about how many people are for this or how many people are for that. and not the larger conversation about what this is doing. i think, when we connect people to the larger agenda, we're going to be able to motivate people in new and powerful ways. but, you know, the conversation has to be about who we want to be in charge. who do we want to be in charge of this country to take us forward? do we want mitch mcconnell to be in charge, because he said what he's going to do. for all of us, we cannot be confused that once they get power than they actually do what they said they were going to do. for democrats, for those of us who engage in the politics of
moving this country forward, we have to recognize that this is about coming together with a larger agenda. it's about defeating not just the people behind this, but also the corporations that say they are on our side but stay silent. those who enable and support the right-wing agenda, through their corporate donations. all of this has to be part of an agenda that actually recognizes that our lives are on the line. because they actually are. >> and in the minute we have left, rashad. i listen to what you're saying and i share your passion. but we have seen, over the decades, that democrats aren't motivated by judges. democrats aren't motivated by the makeup of the supreme court. democrats aren't vote motivated by, as much as we think they should be, by the not even looming, the here conservative threat that is here. given all of that, do you think that, if the supreme court does indeed overturn roe v. wade,
that that will inert to democrats benefit because it will rile up people who are outraged by that decision if it happens and gets them to the ballot box in november to ensure that democrats maintain the majorities, if not grow them? >> yeah, i don't know if anything here is to our benefit. but what i will say is that, when our backs are up against the wall, we have to fight like it. so, my invitation to all the people who are watching, for all the people who care about this country moving in the right direction. then we actually have to fight like that. and so, i don't think this is going to be to democrats benefit. because that is about right and left. this is not about right and left, this is about right and wrong. we have to realize that there is a larger moral imperative in place, and we have to fight like it. the invitation is, here the writing is on the wall and we all now have to do the work to build the type of power that changes the rules.
and recognizing that our opponents, every single day, are waking up to change the rules. whether it's allowing corporations to control our environment. whether it's legislators controlling whether we have access to the vote. or whether it's allowing the supreme coat court to decide whether a woman has autonomy over her body. all of these things are in place on the agenda, there are a clear set of opponents who have told us what they are going to do. the question is, for all of us, what are we going to do? >> the key thing you said here, rashad, is it's not right or left it's right or wrong. rashad robinson of color of change, thank you very much for coming back to the sunday show. coming up, a live look on the ground in ukraine, where the first lady of the united states was earlier today. meeting with the first lady of ukraine. plus, the latest on today's virtual meeting between president biden and other g7 leaders and president zelenskyy. we'll be right back. k.
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show. right now, president biden other leaders from the g7 are meeting virtually with ukraine's president volodymyr zelenskyy, to discuss how else the world's leading democracies can counter putin's aggression. we are also following more breaking news out of ukraine where at least 60 people are feared dead after a russian airstrike hit a school in eastern ukraine late yesterday. 30 others were evacuated from the -- according to the governor of ukraine. meanwhile, first lady of the united states dr. jill biden travel to ukraine today to meet with ukraine's first lady. and with displaced persons of sheltering in a school there. joining me now is nbc news correspondent kelly kobe, a live in ukraine. kelly, what is the latest on the ground, and when is the reaction been this morning to reports of that school bombing? >> well, the russian military
of defends joe turkmen -- the governor phil hanks said, this is pretty clear. this was a school being used as a shelter. one official in the region saying that most of the village people who had not yet fled were hiding from bombs inside that school. that's they were in the basement, which is considered safe from bombings. and, then this missile strike at about four or 4:30 in the afternoon on saturday, a fire than erupted. you can see the absolute devastation, officials there have tried to rescue people. they said they were able to bring about 30 people out of the rubble, some of whom are injured. but they believe that the other 60 or so have died in that bombing. very difficult there for the people in that village. and also the people in the east, where russian strikes continue throughout the day today. on top of that, you have -- with this is a backdrop, you
have an incredible visit from the first lady, dr. jill biden. across the border into ukraine, as i don't know if you can hear them today jonathan, as air raid sirens are sounding they have been sounding through the past 24 hours or so, across the country. doctor biden met we understand, with the first lady, a line of alaska, for sometime. we weren't given an exact time. spent it all in about two hours in ukraine. visited a school which has been turned into a makeshift shelter there. and she told the ukrainian first lady that she wanted to be there to show the uss support, to show that the u.s. stance with ukraine. the first lady of ukraine said we see you, we understand. we feel your support and love. it is especially poignant for people in ukraine coming on mother's day. it is also mother's day here, jonathan.
>> nbc news correspondent kelly cobiella. thank you very much. stay safe out there. coming up, it is last time again. after the break, sunday show veteran returns. plus, presidential candidate marianne williamson. and cornell belcher stopped by the sunday show to sound off. don't go anywhere. don't go anywhere. and doug. ♪ harp plays ♪ only two things are forever: love and liberty mutual customizing your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. (emu squawks) if anyone objects to this marriage, speak now or forever hold your peace. (emu squawks) (the crowd gasps) no, kevin, no! not today. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ my a1c stayed here, only pay for what you need. it needed to be here. ruby's a1c is down with rybelsus®.
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established. they are taking them away. wake, up america. >> wake, up america, indeed. let me get right to my panel. senior adviser to the lincoln project, tara setmayer. marianne williamson, activist in 2020 presidential candidate. she is the author of a politics of love. and pollster cornell belcher, who is also an msnbc political analyst. let's jump right on into it. because i think our gavin newsom of california raises some good points there. let's get to. it cornell, you are the pollster here. it's what the governor saying, is that the roadmap for democrats? >> well, a couple things. one is, when you look at data around why so many people are upset with democrats or think democrats in congress have done a poor job, a lot of it has to do with what they see as a lack of unity. when we asked them openly had a feel about whatever has ordered
and congress they say a lack of unity or infighting. so, one, i'm conscious of democrats attacking other democrats. democrats aren't the problem, right. they're not the reason the supreme court is behaving the way it is. they're not the reason mitch mcconnell has blocked everything that has democrats have moved and passed on criminal justice reform to voting rights. somewhere in the conversation is lost that it has all become a conversation about what democrats can't do and not, quite frankly, republicans who won't even let it come to the floor of the senate. they won't let voting rights come to the floor of the senate. it's an up and down vote on a lot of these issues, it's because of republicans. i do understand but i do think the democrats should stop the circular firing squad and turn our attention to the republicans what they're doing to stop the will of the people. >> marianne, i don't know if it's a circular firing squad as much as it is a rallying of the troops. like, hey, come on, let's get moving. you're the only person on the screen right now who is actually run for president.
so, i would love your insight into what the governor said. and also the circumstances for what he was saying. that is that draft opinion from justice alito, overturning roe v. wade. >> well, this is a stuff campaign that has been going on for years. it cost 500 and $80 million, involves the judicial network crisis, review involves the federalist society and mitch mcconnell. the suppressing of women's free agency has been a cornerstone of oppressive regimes and institutions, going back to ancient times. so, this is as fundamental and as serious as that can get. not just in terms of women's rights but in terms of democratic freedoms. in terms of what the supreme court might want to do. not only in terms of privacy issues but in terms of deregulation of corporations, in terms of suppression of environmental activism, in terms of in coating dark money into our political system. i don't totally agree that it
is quite as simple as democrats just showing up. you know, there is kind of a double bind for democrats at this point. i agree with governor newsom. where are the democrats right now? where is the serious counteroffensive? we know that it is evil what these people have been doing. but it's also true that the democrats have had opportunities, over the last few years, to codify women's reproductive rights. president obama as that he was going to make it part of his legislative authorities to pass the freedom of choice act, and then he chose not to. so, i think the democrats will put people in such a double bind. if you say to people you're going to do things and then you don't, and then all you say about for us again, i think the democrats, the president and congress, need to do a lot over the next few months to make sure that democrats will show up. not just say that we should and put the burden on us. we need to arouse people, around more than just this issue. democrats need to prove people were doing things for you, not just promises them.
>> right. and tara, you are a former republican. we have to get your insight on this, about what's happening with your party. i want to put up this tweet from congressman matt gates. where he writes this. how many of the women rally against overturning roe are overeducated, under loved millennials who sadly returned from protests to a lonely microwave dinner with their cats, and no bumble matches? lord, tara, just go. >> matt gates, of all people, should shut the house up. okay? this is a guy who is under investigation for sex trafficking underage girls. so, he needs to really stop. but this is indicative of the people who are given a platform in today's republican party. this is part of the reason why i left the party. this amount of performative extremism, this hypocrisy, this idea of rigid morality.
this neo-fascist theology, religious audacity here that is so extreme that it feels authoritarian. it is an attack on a rights in this country. not just for women. we're seeing the attacks on voting rights, we're seeing the attacks on basic human decency and fundamental aspects of our democracy and individual freedom. this is the antithesis to what's liberalism is, classic liberalism. this is ill liberalism. people like matt gates, people like some of these governors who are using the veneer of states rights to hide behind the cruelty of overturning roe v. wade after 50 years of precedent. they're hiding behind states rights, just like they did in the civil rights movement. just like they did back in the civil war days when black people didn't have rights. this is something that i, as a conservative who believes in states rights on certain issues,
but not when we're talking about taking rights away from individuals. particularly in a tired of citizens in this country, and women. so, republicans need to decide. they are pro-life when it comes to this issue but they're not pro-life when it comes to basic medical care and behavior to protect life, when it came to covid. we have 1 million people dead in this country because of the irresponsibility of the republicans and trump and that maga group trying to say it's my body, don't tell me what to do. i don't have to wear a mask. don't tell me what to do about getting a vaccination to protect other people. but here they are, with this idea of abortion and putting that burden on women to make an anguishing decision in their lives. it is up to, them it is between them and gotten their doctor. it shouldn't be between these politicians who are using this as a performative political expedient issue. it's disgusting, and did the math gates of the world and others who are trying to feign
this morality, they need to take a look in the mirror. >> tara, marianne and cornell will be back in a moment. i'm going to turn the conversation to some exciting news for our team here at msnbc. on friday night, at the 33rd annual glaad media awards, our team won in the category of outstanding tv journalism, long form. for the pride of the white house special. this was a collaborative effort from the sunday show and the last word producers. but a special thanks to kyle griffin, chris carney, michaud we, arland soto. congrats to all! more of my sound off panel after a quick break, stay with us. (music) who said you have to starve yourself to lose weight?
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and energy production that starts in your cells. address one of the root causes of aging with tru niagen, researched by the world's top scientific institutions. welcome back to the sunday show, tara, marianne, and cornell are back. i have to show you what governor tate reeves of mississippi said of meet the
press. >> i know that this law does not include an exception for incest. >> well, i was not in the legislature or the executive branch of that time. that was a decision that was made by the mississippi legislature. and i think it is certainly a conversation. there are exceptions for rape, there are exceptions for the life of the mother. and we will see what happens based upon the ultimate outcome of this case that is before the supreme court. >> tara, go ahead. >> listen. i am over these republican governors who are coming out here, trying to tell women that they know better than women do. the bottom line is that women should have the opportunity to make the decision for their own bodies. it should not be these legislators who have other agendas, pushing this on women.
my mom had me at 21 years old, as a single mother with a biracial child in 1975. she was in show business, and could have very easily made a different decision. but the point is, she had a choice. she made the choice to have, me and god bless her forte. happy mother's day mom, i love you. but the point is that she had the choice. these people are asking millions of women to go through the difficulty, particularly in rape and incest, possibly. life of the mother. and then think they will be taking care of them afterwards. that is not their decision to make. that is up to a woman. either you believe that women have the right to make those decisions, between their doctors and themselves and their families, or they don't. and i still don't know why these will allow us have no lies about the man. where is the law but the responsibility the man on the other side of this? are they gonna be brought up on homicide charges? like in louisiana, they are
looking at making abortion a homicide? where are they? i am infuriated by this. and i think that for democrats, there should be a rallying call. it should be a rallying call for all americans. either we are looking at the future, or we are going backwards to the before times. and they don't really think the american people want has to go back to a time where we are second-class citizens. >> tara, we have three minutes left. i want to get marianne and cornell in. marianne, your view. >> unfortunately, we have barbaric governors like mississippi governor all over this country. we have 26 states that are just waiting to activate their target laws, to pass these horrifying laws, that serves the supreme court decision goes down. so we have to change our psychological orientation. when we have thought of the overturning of roe v. wade, we have constituted on the supreme court. and we have lost that battle, apparently. we've concentrated on the legislative college-ification. hopefully the democrats will still come through. in the meantime, all of us have
to think. we have to think about getting very involved with our state politics, state legislator, state gubernatorial races. and more and more, woman i hope, we'll take this as a sign that they should run for office. we need more women, not people who call themselves pro life, in state legislatures all over this country. >> and cornell, as rashad robinson said in an earlier segment, this is not right left. this is right and wrong. . the as a -- do you think the people will rise up? because i see what the supreme court and congress is doing, and see that it is wrong? >> i am running out of time on this, so i'll be short. because frankly, many to shut the hell up and get out of the way of the woman and their decisions and their conversations. but yes. i think this is a rise up moment. you can look at the polling where you see abortion rights are now leaked for all, in many
cases. inflation in the economy has become the top issue. and i think that is problematic for republicans going into the midterm. this is a dynamic shifting moment. republicans are going to have their moment. now, i'm not so sure. >> looking there. issues most important for democrats was abortion, followed by 19% for inflation. we have some other charts there showing that 51%, grass, 51% of the american people support roe v. wade. do not want to see it overturned. in another poll, i think it is that same poll. that shows that when folks are given a choice between a pro-choice democrat and a pro life republican, democrats come out, their advantage comes out ahead. you see it right there. when it is a generic democrat, that is 44%. generic republican, 44%. we've given the choice between
a pro-choice democrat and a pro-life republican, 44% would say democrats. and that stays the same, but support for pro-life republican plummets. goes down, 31%. marianne williamson, cornell belcher, tara setmayer, thank you. happy mother's day. and now i'm a special person joining me on set. happy mother's day to my mom, margaret capehart. if you've been following me on instagram arteta or twitter you know that her name is miss lady. we just celebrated her 80th birthday with a nice trip to rome. have you got back from italy? >> not quite. >> how much time do we have? will we be your advice for moms. real quick. you have 80 years of experience. >> oh, wow.
all i have got to say is just, keep doing what you are doing. because most moms are and appreciated. i think. for all the work that they do. just keep doing what you are doing. >> speaking of appreciation, happy mother's day mom. >> thank you so much. thank you. well. >> just go to commercial. we'll be right back. it's still the eat fresh refresh™ and subway's refreshing everything like the new honey mustard rotisserie-style chicken. it's sweet, it's tangy, it's tender, it never misses. you could say it's the steph curry of footlongs. you could, but i'm not gonna.
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day to my mother in law, janice, sister-in-law sara, and tina. thank you at home for watching the sunday show. i will be back next sunday at 10 am eastern. but stay tuned, because my friend alex witt has the latest. hi alex. >> i am loving this. and listen. seeing mama miss capehart, i can see how you are so thoughtful jonathan. your mother is a thoughtful woman. but i can also see where you got your good looks. there you have, it right there. so while i have you on your mother, jonathan, i want to wish my mother, who was equally beautiful in every way shape and form. her beauty, spiritual. her appearance. i love you so much mom. happy mother's day to you, mama miss capehart, and to my mom, and to all of you out there celebrating. have a good one. >> ha