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tv   MSNBC Prime  MSNBC  May 11, 2022 1:00am-2:00am PDT

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thanks at-home for joining us this hour. as alicia said, this is msnbc prime, erin at this hour tuesday through friday, the rachel maddow show continues to air at this us tonight. and at this hour, polls have just closed in the great state of nebraska. in that state's primary elections, voters today chose nominees for congress, governor and other statewide offices in nebraska. as you know, nebraska is a pretty red state. it's a pretty safe bet that a lot of today's republican nominees will go on to win in the general election later this year. in fact, some of these offices don't have a democrat running for them. and a place like that, it's not whether a democrat or republican is going to win but what kind of republican is most popular. let's start with the trump-endorsed candidate for governor in today's primary,
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wealthy businessman who made his fortune largely, this is true, from selling bull's semen. someone has to do it, i guess. rachel discussed last night, charles has been accused of groping by eight women, eight, including a conservative republican state senator who says he reached up her address at a republican event in 2019. some might consider those disqualifying, but not of course donald j. trump. declaing herbster innocent of any wrong doing. those attentions have gotten a great deal of attention and rightly so. what you don't know about charles herbster is his events on january 6th. the day of the attack on the capitol, charles herbster was in washington, d.c. with president
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trump's inner circle. he was in the vip section at trump's rally where the president urged everyone to march on the capitol. herbster sent to campaign staffers back home in nebraska, including this photo. he was very excited to be seated up in the second row at the rally right behind election conspiracy theorist, noted pillow salesman mike lindell. as the capitol attack unfolded, herbster boarded a private jet to florida a plane he referred to as air force 3. for the record, air force 3 is not a thing unless you're referring to the nike high top basketball shoes the air force 3 was definitely the best version. any way, the night before the riot, january 5th, herbster posted on facebook that he was at the trump hotel down the street from the white house, meeting with among others trump's sons, don jr. and eric and trump's disgraced
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ex-national security adviser michael flynn who just weeks earlier called for president trump to deploy the military to overturn the election. herbster said he was with, quote, patriots who were joining me in a battle for justice and truth. tomorrow, he wrote, is the last official chance for our members of congress to object to the widespread voter fraud that happened on november 3rd. there was no widespread fraud. in a text message herbster sent that night obtained by the nebraska examiner, he describe nad meeting at the trump hotel as a briefing on the final stages of the trump's team plans to overturn the election results and keep trump in office. he wrote, quote, this is a very, very, very important and informational meeting tonight with full written reports of all this election was truly stolen from us and anyone who does not believe that is true is totally inaccurate. we need to think how that affect my campaign for governor. of course, the way it affected his campaign for governor, was that he got donald trump's endorsement and a huge boost in
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tonight's race. by being trump's devoted ally in spreading his big election lie. and the governor's race isn't the only primary contest where this happened in nebraska. take the attorney general's race. this is one of those contests where there were no democrats running. there were only two republican candidates for the job. and one of them dropped out of law school after one semester. she said she didn't know much about the legal issues facing the state and once she's in office, she would figure out, quote what you're allowed to do. but she knows one thing that 2020 election was fraudulent. oh, yes. and the number one thing she would do as attorney general is fix the state's elections. how about the race for nebraska secretary of state? the office that actually oversees elections in that state. well, nebraska actually has an incumbent secretary of state running for re-election, a republican like all of nebraska statewide office holders oversaw the 2020 election donald trump won nebraska by nearly 20
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points. but today he was facing two republican primary challengers, both of whom say that election was rife with voter fraud. the election trump won. why? well, nebraska apportioned some of electoral college votes by congressional districts. donald trump won four of nebraska's five electoral votes, joe biden got one. count them. one electoral vote from nebraska from the congressional district around the city of omaha. and those two republican challengers for the secretary of state's job say that that one electoral vote was stolen. sure, maybe the places where donald trump won were fine, but that one place where joe biden won, that was definite fraudulent. if one is elected secretary of state, apparently they'll prove it and get rid of the voting machines. not replace them, get rid of all of them. that was the republican primary lineup in nebraska today.
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election deniers and people at the u.s. capitol on january 6th are popping up on republican primary ballots all over the country. the leading contender for the republican nomination for governor in crucial swing state pennsylvania was at the capitol on january 6th and helped donald trump and rudy giuliani in their quest to get joe biden's win overturned in pennsylvania. been subpoenaed by the january 6th investigation. that guy has endorsed a republican candidate for lieutenant governor who was also at the capitol on january 6th. apparently he feels left out, by the way. earlier this year he demanded to know where his subpoena from the january 6th investigation is, quote, where is mine? i was there. give me my subpoena. in michigan, another capitol rioter among the candidates vying to be the republican nominee for governor. the republican nominees for michigan attorney general and secretary of state are both died in the wool election deniers and pushers of conspiracy theories. the attorney general nominee said the incumbent a.g. a democrat should be in prison. where have i heard that before?
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? georgia the republican governor and the republican secretary of state, those two gentlemen on the left, are being primaried by trump-backed candidates who say the 2020 election was stolen. in arizona, the trump-endorsed candidate for secretary of state was at the january 6th riot and says if he's elected he'll throw out the 2020 election results. and in colorado, a county clerk who is under criminal investigation for messing with election equipment in an attempt to ridiculously prove a 2020 voter fraud conspiracy, she's thrown her hat in the ring for the republican secretary of state nomination. the list goes on and on. i could go on all night. this is the republican primary ballot today in nebraska and in the days and weeks ahead all over the country. this is the republican party right now and the threat to american democracy right now. joining us is former florida republican congressman carlos ka
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bio. thank you for coming on the show. good to see you again. donald trump has turned republican primaries into a toxic show about who can lie more about election fraud. that's the key to getting his endorsement. how do you think that dynamic will republican not in primaries but in the general election in november. >> that's right. that's the concern. this is no longer a race to the bottom. this is a race to hell because it's all about who can lie the most and with most passion and most consistently. that is the process now for getting through republican primaries. you want to get mr. trump's support? how do you do by embracing a lie in a passionate, obvious way he can see. get his support and then hopefully win the primary. now, if you win the primary, and you're in a super red district, well, that's okay. you're probably going to make it to congress. if you're in a swing district, that's where it's a little more complicated because then you have to pivot quickly and convince those independents and maybe some moderate democrats that might be up for grabs that,
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well, maybe you don't really believe in these lies. so, it's a very difficult balancing act. some candidates will do it successfully. others will fall right off the high wire. >> the problem, of course, is in places like nebraska, as i mentioned, you don't need to worry about a democrat in the general election. you can just get the nomination and your home and dry and we're in trouble come 2024. carlos, i was struck by an opinion piece posted by "the new york times" yesterday with a great title about the primaries in nebraska. it says, quote, it doesn't matter whether these candidates actually win or not because their consperitorial and inflammatory rhetoric pushing all republican candidates further and further towards the fringe regardless of how the final balloting turns out in nebraska on tuesday, the real victor will be donald trump. that is the case, is it not? well, trump is on the out. he doesn't have the same power he had before. he just elevated jd vance in
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ohio. it's still his party. >> that's right. what a lot of candidates don't understand is trump's appetite for this kind of dishonesty is not sashable. you will never fulfill his appetite and eventually he's going to ask you to do something that makes you very, very uncomfortable. he's going to ask you to try to throw out an election result or to try to impeach joe biden or something of that nature, and that's when a lot of these people are going to realize the gravity. i'll embrace this lie just to get donald trump's support. what's even more sad about all of this i would say nine out of ten of these individuals, they don't believe any of this stuff. they don't believe any of this stuff. they're trained, told, hey, just go ahead and say this and that. make sure he's happy. then move on. well, it's really hard to move
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on with donald trump because he demands absolute loyalty all the time. and eventually for most people, they're going to be asked to do something. >> it already happened, carlos. it already happened to mo brooks of alabama who was trump's endorsed pick there in alabama for the senate seat. mo brooks and unendorsed mo brooks. jd vance was calling donald trump america's hitler. now he's pushing his issues. these are not just running for office all over the country, governor, senate, but they're specifically running for offices that manage the elections for the secretary of state roles. and the motive is obvious for that. but, it's pretty dangerous, is it not, that the democrats have not been able to get their election reform bills through the senate because of joe manchin, because of the filibuster. the republicans are getting ready to plug those gaps where their conspiracy, plan fell
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apart in 2020 to make sure in 2024 there are no holes to hold the line. >> it is dangerous. what it means is that we're likely going to have to rely on the courts again to prevent people literally from cheating, from trying to steal elections. we are very fortunate in 2020, about 60 court cases, judges appointed by republicans, judges appointed by democrats, supreme court which we know is dominated by conservatives now, they all turned down all these efforts to try to unjustifiably change the election result. if some of these officials get elected, people who are openly campaigning on an agenda to steal elections or rig elections or whatever it is, the courts are really going to be the last line of defense. i guess the silver lining there, the hope is that it worked in 2020 and we're going to have to count on the integrity of these judges again in future elections if these officials try to manipulate the results.
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>> i'm pretty sure people watching at home tonight will not be reassured to hear that judges are going to be the last line of defense for american democracy come 2024. it's a worrying time. former republican congressman carlos cabillo. thank you for your time. >> thank you. the main goal of the january 6 select committee is to produce a definitive, factual accounting of what happened on january 6th and efforts by donald trump and his allies leading up to it to try to overturn the results of the 2020 election. the committee has now interviewed close to 1,000 witnesses. they have over 100,000 documents, emails, call logs and text messages, some of which we have seen. as we learned today, we have tapes, lots of tapes. politico reports the committee has tapes from the depositions many of the 900 plus witnesses who appeared before it. some of those tapes may soon be made public. quote, it is quite possible that excerpts of the january 6 select committee witness dpepgss
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eventually become public according to people familiar to the probe. you the committee is holding eight public hearings starting next month. we still don't know the format of the hearing or exact timing, the house panel is planning to produce key evidence as part of its final product. joining us now is member of the january 6th investigation pete aguilar. congressman, thank you so much for joining us. let me jump straight into it, is this reporting accurate from politico the january 6 panel may play tape of some of your depositions during last month's public hearings? >> we're interesting in playing the complete stroir and events that led up to january 6th. we talked to nearly 1,000 individuals. there is significant everyday we look forward to presenting to
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the american public. >> so, i'm going to ask again, do we think we'll see tapes at these hearings? is there consideration around the tapes? we know the tapes exist. >> well, what we want to do is portray this and convey this in a manner that people understand. and part of that is telling the full and complete story. so what i would anticipate is that we have live witnesses and we also add maybe tweets and other media that could be helpful in that. and i don't want to get ahead of the committee and our process, but i can tell you it will be layered. it will be honest. and it will tell the full and complete story about what happened on january 6th and the events that led up to that. >> okay. so like our viewers at home, i'm going to hold on to the other media line that you just said. bloomberg is reporting today that the committee is seriously evaluating subpoenaing kevin mccarthy, house minority leader and other republican lawmakers
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who declined voluntary interviews. can you confirm those conversations are happening? and if not, why aren't they happening? why the reluctance to go after these republicans when let's be honest n a few month's time they could be in charge of the house, they could be going after members of your party for a ray of issues, hunter biden's laptop, the situation at the border and whatnot. >> the committee is focussed. we're disciplined. we're having conversations each and everyday about the investigative steps that are ahead of us. there are still some steps we need to take before we get to those eight public hearings that we plan to lay out the evidence to the american public. there are still decisions to be made with respect to our investigative tactics and approach. the committee is having those on going conversations with a top flight team of staff members that we have assembled. and all of this is with the mindset that we have to tell that story to the public and we have to make sure that this never happens again. that includes legislative
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sessions and recommendations but obviously and we put in those letters previously that we feel members of congress had a direct role in the discussions that proceeded january 6th, meetings at the white house, meetings and conversations with mark meadows, all of that is significant. and we feel that under the rule of law and the system that we have, individuals should follow a lawful subpoena that is given by the committee. unfortunately some of our colleagues -- >> just to be clear, congressman, just to be clear, there's been reporting that there's a split on the committee between some members who don't want to subpoena people like kevin mccarthy because they think it will set a bad precedent, republicans will weaponize that against you when they have control of the house. are you in that group of people or do you think actually forget precedent, republicans are going to do what they're going to do. you should do the right thing now. >> the committee is going to do the right thing. the american people can be sure that's the case. i will also tell you, i'm not telling tales out of school here, i want to protect the committee and my colleagues, but there's no daylight between the
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members of the committee on the investigative decisions that are being made. we are making them together. we are having these conversations. we're voicing our opinions. we are finding consensus. that is exactly how a committee should work. so i've been pleased with the nonpartisan nature of this committee work. >> one last quick question, we're out of time, 30 seconds last, got to ask, elon musk buying twitter said he would reverse the company's ban on trump that means the former president could soon be inciting violence on social media again. how might that affect your committee's proceedings moving forward? >> well, i think the president would probably receive counsel he shouldn't be tweeting. that's my belief. i think he gets into trouble when he tweets. clearly the american public and the capitol was assaulted in part because of his tweets on december 19th and the day leading up to that as well as the public events and his speech that he gave on the 6th. >> good luck to which ever lawyer has to persuade donald
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trump not to tweet once he's back on twitter. california congressman and member of the january 6th committee pete aguilar, thank you so much for your time tonight. today we got news about the criminal investigation down in georgia into donald trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. cnn reports tonight that multiple fake electors in that state are now cooperating with the fulton county investigation. nbc not confirmed this reporting but two sources tell cnn that investigators are trying to determine whether those fake electors had any knowledge that their actions were part of an illegal plot overseen by the trump campaign to pressure election officials and overturn biden's victory in that state. the electors met with investigators include the state's republican party chairman and they were told that they are witnesses not subjects of the investigation. just last week, a special grand jury was seated to hear evidence in fulton county district attorney fanny willis's information. we'll be right back with more. n. we'll be right back with more.
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on january 6th of 2021, you had tens of thousands of people peacefully protesting, and yet the corporate media and democrats slander them with the made-up term insurrectionist and yet in this instance, they are not willing to call off their goons even now, even now as this has the potential to escalate and escalate further. >> that was ted cruz last night comparing what he described as the peaceful protests at the capitol and the, quote unquote, goons protesting outside of supreme court justices homes
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this weekend over the leaked decision to overturn roe. fyi, his leader in the senate mitch mcconnell called 1/6 an insurrection as well but cruz style was all over fox yesterday. >> we hesitate to bring you these pictures because they're so awful, but it's happening and you should see what it looks like. these are protesters. this is the mob outside justice samuel alito's home in virginia. they're disgusting. >> as you may have heard, this is the anniversary of january 6th. and in commemoration of that, we have donned the official network approved solemn anchor white shirt, muted tie, message reverence. you take three steps back as historical events go if we're being honest now, january 6th barely rates as a footnote, really not a lot happened that day. >> democrats are now reversing course once again and they are supporting acts of political violence, as we seek, far left
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agitators trying to harass, intimidate u.s. supreme court justices and coerce them into saving roe v. wade. it is a disgusting, repulsive, despicable attempt to destroy the independence of our nation's judiciary. the vast majority in washington, d.c. today were peaceful. the overwhelming, the 99% as we say. >> this juvenile protests i'm sure you saw some of the video, clear attempt to intimidate and harass these justices and impede. the breach of the capitol on january 6th was a terrible thing. crimes were committed. some people were unfairly hounded. and persecuted and prosecuted, but it was not an insurrection. to say anything different is beyond dishonest and ignores the facts of that day. >> the double standards. today, though, conservatives are pointing out that there is
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currently a law on the books might mean it is illegal to protest outside of a justice's house. don't be fooled. that is not why they are worked up. if they were concerned with the letter of the law, they would be furious about january 6th. and the multiple crimes that took place that day. instead, they are mad about stuff like this, last night about 150 protesters marched to justice samuel alito's home in alexandria, virginia. this is what tucker carlson hesitates to show you. it is so grotesque. look at them. forgive me for saying so tough on television, but they held a candle lit vigil. a couple dozen protesters showed up outside justice brett kavanaugh's house chanting from days tans and marched to john robert's home, held signs and chanted from a distance. still, yesterday the senate passed a bill unanimously beefing up the security provided to supreme court justices and their families. amazing how fast the senate can move when it wants to. and look, that's fine.
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justices deserve to feel safe and be able to make their decisions free from fear. but also, i feel like this is all missing some pretty crucial context. in just a decade between 2010 and 2020, the national abortion federation documented three murders, nine attempted murders, one bombing, 20 arsons, eight attempted bombing or arsons. 621 acts of vandalism, nearly 6,000 acts of trespassing, two bio terrorism assaults. 551 death threats by anti-abortion activists against abortion providers. where is the right wing outrage over that? outrage over that?
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and it's only available to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities.™ tonight, we are keeping an eye on another important primary race in the state of west virginia, alex moony and david mckinny current republican members of congress in that state but because of a drop in west virginia's population, they have been squeezed into one congressional district and forced to run against each other. tonight, nbc news is projecting that alex mooney will be the winner of that primary. currently leads david mckinly 15 percentage points. former president donald trump threw his support behind mooney, mckinley admitted that joe biden won the 2020 election and voting
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for the bipartisan infrastructure bill. mooney accusing him of supporting joe biden's agenda but mckinley is pushing back on those attacks with the help of this guy. >> i've always said if i can't go home and explain it, i can't vote for it. and that's why i opposed build back better. for alex mooney and his out of state, david mckinley opposed reckless spengd because it doesn't make sense for west virginia. alex mooney has proven he is all about alex mooney, but west virginians know david mckinley is all about us. >> that is democratic senator joe manchin, celebrating a republican candidate, celebrating him for voting against president biden's signature legislation. hey, don't believe all that stuff about republican david mckinley supporting biden.
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he opposed biden every turn. just like me, democrat joe manchin. he is proudly relishing his reputation of the guy who blocked his own party's agenda and succeeded in killing joe biden's build back better bill and succeeded in killing the democrat's efforts to protect voting rights and now going to kill any chance of legislating to protect abortion rights. tomorrow the senate is expected to vote an bill that codify roe v. wade into law in the wake of the supreme court's leaked draft decision overturning roe. every other democrat in the senate is lining up to vote for that legislation. today the senate's only other anti-abortion democrat, senator bob casey, came out in support of the build to codify roe. let me just hang a lantern on that for a second. senator bob casey is the son of former pennsylvania governor bob casey sr., who used to be one of the country's most outspoken opponents of abortion. bob casey sr. was the plaintiff in the landmark abortion case,
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planned parenthood versus casey. he's that casey. and today that guy's son, his name sake, said even he is ready to vote to protect a woman's right to choose. but it does not matter because joe manchin and all 50 republican senators are blocking any changes to the filibuster that would allow the democratic majority in the senate to protect a woman's right to control her own body. so what can democrats do to protect abortion rights now? joining us is hawaii democratic senator may si hero toe. thank you for joining us this evening. this vote is expected to happen tomorrow. republicans will block it. senator manchin won't allow any change to the filibuster. what do democrats do next to protect abortion rights? what can they do given you have a colleague in the senate who is busy promoting a republican house candidate rather than protecting women's rights. >> one thing we'll do is to push for more democratic pro-choice
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senators. but this fight is going to be taking place a lot at the state level because it is the state legislatures who are passing all of these anti-abortion bills and they have been doing so for decades. so, we are going to continue to shed light on the fact that we have a group of radical right wing justices who are prepared with no qualms, apparently, to take away a constitutional right that women in this country relied on for almost 50 years. so much for adhering to precedent. >> senator, a lot of democrats watching at home will hear you say vote for more democrats and say we did in record numbers, in 2018 we turned out. in 2020 we turned out. the democrats control the white house, the senate, the house and yet still no codification of roe, still know limb nation of the filibuster, still no reform of the supreme court. >> well, note that the democrats who control the house passed the bill that we'll be voting on
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tomorrow. as i said, a 50/50 senate sucks. that is why we need more than 50 democratic senators. so to say that democrats control the senate is only because we have kamala harris. >> let me ask you this, if this issue does motivate people to support more democrats in november, if you miraculously keep and increase your majority over the anger over the roe decision, anything you pass in january 2023 can still be overturned by this clearly radical supreme court. isn't it time for democrats to start thinking about expanding the supreme court, rebalancing it, reforming it after trump packed it and the republicans stole a seat on it? if not now, when? >> there's an array of things that we can do. for one thing, i think the supreme court should have a code of ethics. i think they should have a very clear standard on when they should recuse themselves. they do not have anything like that. they don't have to tell us when
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they're being wined and dined by interests that have cases before them. so, there are a number of things that we can do. but at the same time, i think that people in our country should know that any right, any constitutional right we think we've won that relies on privacy, which is what one of the underpinnings of the roe decision should be very, very concerned because justice alito denigrated the privacy underpinnings and that means that other rights, such as the same sex marriage, marriage equality, and these other rights that are not specifically mentioned in the constitution are subject to reversal. so this is not just about important as it is a woman's right to choose, but there's going to be a whole bunch of other things that the supreme court will probably undo. >> and it is about much more than just roe. it is about the supreme court.
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i ask again, given you have four justices appointed by presidents who lost the popular vote, two justices credibly accused of sexual misconduct, justice neil gorsuch in many would consider a stolen seat, would you suggest expanding the court? >> i support court reform. i want to start with having them adopt at least a code of ethics. they don't have that. so, clearly we're going to need to take this fight to the voters. and that's what we're going to be doing. i think it's really important to let people know that we have a bunch of justices who are very radical and the bill tomorrow is partly what i call radical. all of us who thought that for 50 years pretty much a woman had a right to make decisions and control her own body, suddenly that's gone. it is entirely not radical for all of us to be voting for this bill, but apparently for the republicans who are very busy by the way taking away other rights such as our voting rights because they refuse to vote for
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the voting rights act, then par for the course. >> i'm just going to jump in. apology, we're out of time but i have to ask one last question, briefly what is your reaction to protests outside of supreme court justices homes in recent days? do you support them? in the washington post, they point to section 1507 of title 18 of the u.s. code which he says clearly states it is illegal to protest near the residence of a judge. do you agree with that, is it illegal to protest in the way they're doing? >> the law either is there and it applies in which case the department of justice should enforce it. that's it. there seems to be an applicable law. the doj needs to determine whether it applies and enforce it. >> thank you so much for joining us tonight. >> good evening. one more bit of news to tell you about from the united states senate tonight, the senate confirmed tonight economist lisa cook to serve on the federal
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reserve's board of governors. she will be the first black woman to sit on the board since its creation over a century ago. she's an accomplished economist and former member of the white house council of economic advisers. but in order to confirm her, vice president kamala harris had to come down to the senate to break a tie because surprise, surprise, all 50 republican senators voted against dr. cook, which means that even though the democrats had the votes to confirm her, all 50 republicans senators made sure they were there for this nighttime vote because they all wanted to be on the record voting against this accomplished economist to be the first-black woman to hold this position. priorities. we'll be right back. is position priorities we'll be right back. with angi, you can connect with and see ratings and reviews. and when you book and pay throug you're covered by our happiness check out today. angi... and done. and when you book and pay throug you're covered by our happiness living with metastatic breast cancer means being relentless. because every day matters. and having more of them is possible with verzenio.
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russia fired missiles on ukraine's strategic port city of odesa overnight hitting a shopping center and depot. one person was kill and five others wounded. the bombardment came hours after a visit from the president of the european council. they also say russia is targeting the port in an effort to disrupt the supply and delivery of weapon shipments from the west that the country desperately needs. but today pentagon spokesman john kirby said so far no impact on the flow of weapons and material into the country. this war is now in its 11th week and despite putin's attempts to pummel into submission, the country refused to give putin the easy victory. ukrainian fighters remain holed
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up in a steel plant preventing russian forces from taking full control of the city. they also faced heavy shelling overnight that left many of them badly wounded. this as the ukrainian foreign minister says his country is now seeking not only to reclaim lost territory but to push russian troops out of the country entirely with help from western allies. at this hour the house is poised to overwhelmingly approve a $40 billion supplemental package to fund humanitarian and military aid to help beat back russia's invasion. that vote comes as russia's neighbors move closer to nato membership. today they recommend joining the alliance with its chairman saying, quote, membership in nato is the best solution for finland security and strengthens the national defense capability with the support of union significant military resources and sweden's ruling party set to decide whether it will also apply for nato membership next week. and as those countries make preemptive moves to protect themselves from russia, u.s. officials are voicing concerns
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about what putin may do next. today the director of national intelligence avril haines gave this warring. we expect president putin still intends to achieve goals beyond the donbas. she also says the next few months could see us moving along a more unpredictable and escalatory trajectory. general twitty, thank you for being here. the director of national intelligence is warning president biden is putin doesn't have a way out. what are you most worried about when you think of putin's next move? >> if you think about it, he thought he could take kyiv in four days. that didn't happen. he thought he could take the donbas by 9 may. that didn't happen. so now he's taking a look at this thing and there's no easy answers for him. his troops are underperforming. and he has no easy way out here.
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and so, he's preparing for the long-term in this fight, simply because the ukrainian forces have stood up to his forces well and he has no choice but either to fight or give up. and so therefore we don't think he's going to give up that he's going to fight this thing and grind this thing out until he gets to somewhere where he can either have some type of off ramp. right now i don't see that off ramp. i don't think anyone sees that off ramp. and so we are or we are but he's in it for the long term to try and make something good out of something bad here. >> so, we talk about off ramps, but ukraine's foreign minister says the goal is to push russian forces out of the country completely. now, ukrainian forces have done amazingly over the last few weeks. but surely it's pure fantasy to believe they can push all russian forces out of their country, out of crimea? >> yeah. what i'll tell you is in my view
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they have enough to compete. we can't underestimate the will and tenacity of the ukrainians, but if they plan to destroy or push them out of their country, they're going to need additional weapons. they're going to need additional troops to be able to do that in my view. i go back to the powell doctrine. you want to have overwhelming combat power to be able to defeat the russians. and in u.s. army doctrine, we try and have five to one ratio, that means five in terms of ratio, five over the one and right now they don't have that ratio. as you know, the russians have some significant technology. and the ukrainians do not have that technology. they don't have the migs. they don't have a navy to speak of. and so they're lacking in the technology and the people to be
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able to destroy or kick the russians out of their country. >> how worried are you about conflict between the u.s. and russia escalating directly? you have members of congress now talking openly about a proxy war. you have the defense secretary lloyd austin going to kyiv and saying the goal now is to weaken russia's military. how worried are you that this gets out of control? >> well, i'm not that worried. one of the reasons i'm not worried we keep trying to make this a u.s./russia war. we must remember there are 30 countries that make up nato. so, either the other 29 countries they're in this as well. it's not just u.s. versus russia. and so, we need to stop trying to make it that, but what i will tell you is every day that this war goes on, obviously there's a chance that nato can be brought into this fight. and what we have to continue to do is assess that calculus every single day to ensure that we're not pushing that line to where
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this could escalate higher. >> indeed. well said. retired army lieutenant general twitty, thank you for your time and your analysis. appreciate it. >> good to be here. up next, far right cable channel oan was perhaps the biggest proponent of the big lie, out of all the major media outlets but now apparently they say that's not the case. why did they just have a change of heart? i'll explain next. don't go away. heart i'll explain next. don't go away. (woman) oh. oh! hi there. you're jonathan, right? the 995 plan! yes, from colonial penn. your 995 plan fits my budget just right. excuse me? aren't you jonathan from tv, that 995 plan? yes, from colonial penn. i love your lifetime rate lock. that's what sold me. she thinks you're jonathan, with the 995 plan. -are you? -yes, from colonial penn. we were concerned we couldn't get coverage, but it was easy with the 995 plan.
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at the top of the show tonight we talked about how some of the gop proponents of the big lie that trump somehow actually won the 2020 election are now running for major political office. a sign that some of the most anti-democratic element of the post-trump republican party are cementing themselves into the party's foundation. but this week we are seeing even the most fringe parts of the far right media establishment forced to admit that there was no
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widespread voter fraud. after relentlessly reporting on how corrupt the 2020 election supposedly was, the far right one america news network aired this admission yesterday. >> georgia officials have concluded that there was no widespread voter fraud by election workers who counted ballots at the state farm arena in november 2020. the results of this investigation indicate that ruby freeman and shea moss did not engage in ballot fraud or criminal misconduct while working at state farm arena on election night. >> so there you have it, after months and months of reporting baseless allegations that two women who helped administer the 2020 election in georgia processed fake ballots to steal the election from trump, they are now admitting those allegations were a lie, never an anti-trump election scheme in georgia or anywhere for that matter yet that lie was repeated over and over again by trump and his allies like rudy giuliani
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who sought to subvert the 2020 election results. that lie made those two georgia election workers the subjects of harassment and abuse by trump supporters. their lives were up ended because of this lie. so they sued oan and rudy giuliani for defamation. that 30 second statement oan broadcast yesterday was response to that lawsuit which was settled last month. that is why after months and months of lies we now have oan openly admitting their initial reporting and i use reporting in the loosest of senses, was false. that, quote, georgia officials have concluded that there was no widespread voter fraud. ruby freeman and shea moss did not engage in ballot fraud or criminal misconduct. their words. that doesn't undo the months of harassment those two women faced it's one small step to correct the record on one of the loudest propaganda networks and another reminder that right now legal action seems to be the only successful way of pushing back
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against the election conspiracies and misinformation spread by some on the far right. that does it for us tonight. see my show on demand on peacock and on sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next. ♪♪ >> do you take any responsibility for your policies? >> i think our policies help not hurt. think about what they say. the vast majority of the economists think that this is going to be a real tough problem to solve but it's not because of spending. we brought down the deficit. the bottom line is how much does america owe? how much in the hole are we going? we're reducing that. >> president biden on defense over high consumer prices, saying inflation is a top


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