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tv   MSNBC Prime  MSNBC  May 11, 2022 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT

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strategy. this is with the left does and we have to resist. >> okay there's a lot to unpack there. but for fact sake, let's give it a shock. according to the peel research center, in 2020, women earned 84% of what men earned. according to analysis, of median hourly earnings of both full and part-time workers. based on this estimate, it would take a nest of 42 days of work for women to earn win ended in 2020. the masters campaign did not immediately respond to nbc news when i asked for further comment, but don't worry blake, you can call me tomorrow, we will be here still fact-checking. on that, no we wish you a very good night. from all of our colleagues at the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late with us, i'll see you at the end of tomorrow. tomorrow >> they went out the 2016
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presidential election was as we know, donald trump. but you will recall that when he won the electoral college, he did not win the popular vote. and in fact, in the weeks after election day, the margin of his popular vote loss kept growing. every day, every week, hillary clinton's lead in the popular vote kept increasing. it was one and a half million. it was 1. 7 million. it was 2 million. ultimately, hillary clinton would win the popular vote by nearly 2. 9 million votes. and the reason for this was california. you see, california famously takes a very long time to tally all its ballots because there are a lot of ballots there, for one thing. and as they counted their ballots, hillary clinton's popular vote margin kept increasing. this was incredibly annoying to donald trump, not content to win the election he began claiming to have also won the popular vote. if you deduct the millions of people who he claimed illegally
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voted in california. now millions of people did not vote illegally in california. trump did not win the popular vote. but there isn't even arguable logic to the whole claim. sure, it looks like i lost, but if you throw out the millions of votes from my opponent, poof. i win. then trump supporters take his logic in another more ridiculous direction. they said, if you just didn't count california, trump would have won the popular vote, problem solved >> in fact, one conservative talk show host and former congressman tweeted, i know california's a state -- and i know we have to count it -- but if you remove california, trump won the popular vote by 1. 4 million. case closed, because it's true. if you remove one eighth of the american population, then yeah, trump definitely won the
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popular vote in 2016. if you throw out enough of your opponents'ballots and magic, you win. in 2016, that strategy was just wishful thinking on the part of trump and his allies. but in 2020 they actually tried to do it. i know you remember this guy. his name is john eastman. this is him at president trump 's rally on january six last year, the one where trump and his allies wound up the crowd with the election being stolen and sent them off in the direction of the united states capitol. john eastman was a lawyer working on trump's plan to overturn joe biden's election win. he's the one they wrote this crazy memo that laid out a step by step plan by which vice president mike pence could hand the election to trump on january 6th. that plan, in a nutshell, was for pence to declare that biden's win in seven swing states was disputed and therefore could not be counted. well, emails that were just
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obtained by the denver post and published by politico show how john eastman was trying to lay the groundwork for that plan, how he was trying to create a pretense for pence to reject biden's win in those seven states. what he did was he came up with a magic formula by which those states would just not count a whole bunch of biden votes. remember, if you tossed out a whole bunch of your opponents votes, voila, you win. now the reason these emails exist is kind of funny. in late november of 2020, after the election, remember this, pennsylvania republicans hosted trump lawyer rudy giuliani and his crack election fraud team for presentation on how the election in pennsylvania had been stolen from trump. the trump team want to pennsylvania republican legislators to overturn their state election results and hand the electoral votes to trump. but a few days later one of those republican legislators rights to john eastman in
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frustration. he says that he and his republican colleagues really really want to overturn the election results, but giuliani 's presentation was so bad they don't know how to proceed. quote, honestly, the trump legal team was not exactly stellar at pennsylvania's hearing and failed to provide the affidavits of their witnesses. it is for this reason that iso latched onto the core contents, that actual fraud is irrelevant when the election itself is unlawful, end quote. so, this republican lawmaker in pennsylvania, writing to john eastman, said we know in our bones there was tons of fraud and illegal voting. but rudy can't prove it. so just tell us how we can still overturn the election. and john eastman obliges. he writes back that the legislature could, quote, simply affirm what appears to have been the result of the possible the popular vote,
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untainted by illegal votes. eastman says the republican legislators could cite their concerns with pennsylvania's absentee ballot procedures and then use historical data to, quote, discount each candidates totals by a pro-rated amount based on the absentee percentages that those candidates otherwise received. it continues, then, having done that math, you'd be left with a significant trump lead that would bolster the argument for the legislature adopting a slate of trump electors. that would help provide some cover, end quote. if the pennsylvania legislature would just create some new numbers showing that trump actually won, that would provide some cover for the plot to keep him in power. illegally. it's magic. just toss out a bunch of your opponents ballots and you win. throw the fraudulent votes out, illegal votes or all the votes from california -- it's foolproof.
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but it's worth remembering that john eastman was not the only member of team trump to try this neat trick. you remember the infamous phone call in which trump -- georgia's secretary of state, pushing him to find just the right number of votes to make trump the winner in georgia. but last well remembered is that republican senator lindsey graham also called georgia's secretary of state after the election, and what he allegedly said on that call sounds awfully familiar in light of these new emails from john eastman. georgia secretary of state, brad raffensperger, told the washington post that lindsey graham had called him and asked him whether he could toss out all the mail ballots in certain counties. quote, raffensperger said he was stunned the graham appeared to show that he found a way to toss legally cast ballots. it sure looked like he was wanting to go down that road, raffensperger said. graham denied it at the time. >> did you or did you not ask him to throw out vote?
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>> no, that's ridiculous. i talked to him about how you verify signatures. >> why should a senator from south carolina -- >> because the future of the country hangs in the balance. i've talked to people in nevada, arizona. we've got contests all over the nation. >> yeah, really, nothing weird at all about the chairman of the senate judiciary committee calling officials in swing states right after the election, asking them whether they are sure they counted all the votes right. >> he asked that the ballots could be matched back to the voters, and then i got the sense that he implied that then you could throw those out. looking at the counties with the highest frequent error of signatures. so that's the impression that i got. >> i just want to be clear on this, mr. secretary. you said senator graham wanted you to find ways to get rid of
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legally cast ballots, because cnn asked him about these allegations. he denied them. he says that's ridiculous. his words. that's ridiculous. >> well, it's just an implication of look hard and see how many ballots you can throw out. >> it wasn't the straightest answer in the world, but an implication of look hard and see how many ballots you can throw out, could it maybe just be just enough ballots for trump to win? i'm just asking for a friend. well, remember, that call from lindsey graham to the georgia secretary of state is part of the fulton county of georgia district attorney's investigation into tampering by trump's allies. that prosecutor just seeded a grand jury for that investigation last week. and today, our show confirmed that the investigation has secured cooperation from multiple georgia fake electors. another key part of the john eastman scheme. vice president pence was supposed to be able to point to these slates of lake trump's from the actor states as evidence that the election results were in dispute and then tossed out those states votes. because remember, if you cannot earn more votes than your opponent, you could always just
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tossed out their votes until you win. as you can see, we have a lot to get to tonight. joining us now is former united states attorney for the eastern district of michigan, barbara mcquade. barbara, thank you for making time to be with us tonight. look -- this one should not be complicated. i am sure a lot of viewers watches tonight say, we already know at the end of this is. we have seen a federal judge weigh in on the illegality of john eastman's plan. california federal judge david carter wrote in march on the illegality of the plan was obvious, that dr. eastman and [inaudible] [inaudible]
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[inaudible] one thing that is challenging to prove in any pump public corruption case is the intent. who is the criminal intent to commit a crime here? i think that one of these text messages is the idea of needing cover, using it as cover. that, to me, is a really important piece of evidence to show that -- that's the key to a case like
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this. >> i'm intrigued by that. that's when i wanted to ask you about. there's two separate pieces of information. new emails from john eastman corresponding with a state legislator from pennsylvania saying, if you do this or this, you will get some cover. if the georgia secretary of state is to be believed, lindsey graham essentially pressured him to toss out valid ballots in georgia ten days after the election. how, from a legal perspective, in your mind, to do those things differ or compare? >> well, i think that they suggest to me, possibly, that they are part of the same plot. this is, again, as that fuzzy picture is coming into focus -- it seems to me the low most logical charge here is to charge with conspiracy to defraud the united states. it's a makes it a crime for two or more people to try to interfere with the proper function of the agency of the government. if it is interfering with the
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election, we have a number of different people, working on different fronts, to try to knock off a state here and a state there. and with the swing states, if you can flip just a couple of them, to go from the biden column to the trump column, that could be the difference on election day. and we've seen things like lindsey graham's effort to reach out to georgia. by the way, to a secretary of state who is a member of the republican party, he is not doing himself any political papers but favors. by reaching out to lindsey graham. so, he seems to have some credibility issues there, when he starts saying things like this. you have that effort in georgia, in pennsylvania, some efforts in michigan. this multi state effort -- if you can pick off a couple of them -- it is your call. there was a call from donald trump junior, saying we have many [inaudible] >> we think that was in normal sort of electoral college, what's state might go a certain way -- but yeah, this takes entirely new meanings on. barbara, thank you for joining us, the former united states attorney, barbara mcquade. today, something pretty
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remarkable happened in the halls of congress. a group of protesters demanded and marched around the women's health protection act, demanding the codification of reproductive rights. you may recognize a few of them. look. >> my right! >> my decision! [inaudible] >> my body! >> my decision! >> my body! >> my decision! >> one of the outcome of that vote -- and, if passed as a guide, staunch antiabortion messaging may backfire for republicans. that is next. >> tech: stay safe with safelite. schedule now. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ ♪ ♪ aleve x. its revolutionary rollerball design delivers fast, powerful, long-lasting pain relief.
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- [all] our rights. right now. as a business owner, your bottom line - [all] our rights. is always top of mind. so start saving by switching to the mobile service designed for small business: comcast business mobile. flexible data plans mean you can get unlimited data or pay by the gig. all on the most reliable 5g network. with no line activation fees or term contracts... saving you up to $500 a year. and it's only available to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. comcast business. nearly ten years ago, the 2012 powering possibilities.™ election was around the corner, and two shocking words changed everything. >> if an abortion could be considered in the case of a two bill pregnancy or, something like that, what about in the case of rape? should it be legal, or not?
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>> people always want to make that is one of those things on how you slice this particularly tough ethical question. , it seems to me, first of all, from what i understand with doctors, it's rare. if it's a legitimate way rape, the female body has ways to shut that down. >> 2012 missouri senate candidate, todd aiken, saying survivors of rape do not need abortion access. not if it is a, quote, legitimate, rape. a key moment in what turned out to be an incredibly bad year for republicans, trying to talk about women's rights. a few months later, another republican senate candidate, responding to a debate question about abortion, by saying he thought rape was something god intended to happen. by the end of the year, none other than kellyanne conway was revising republicans to, police, stop talking about rape. saying, they should consider it a four letter word. that election did not turn out well for election republicans. they lost several senate races
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in states like indiana, missouri, north dakota. now, ten years later, the right to a safe, and legal abortion, has been imperil by the supreme court. republicans are on the court of electing a new slate of candidates, who will make the 2012 election book downright quaint. in missouri, the home of the legitimate rape controversy, conservatives, rallying behind a trump candidate, who had to resign from his last job for, allegedly, coercing a woman into sex, and then blackmailing her about it. a candidate, who is also facing brand new allegations, assault allegations, from his ex-wife. in indiana, the home of the rape's gods will fiasco, a man accused of killing his ex just won a local republican primary from jail. trump backed candidates in georgia and ohio, running for national office, trailed by assault allegations. whether or not the republicans
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have gotten better to talk about things such as abortion rights, over the last decade, we'll, take a look at this. >> if you take, or destroy the eggs of the sea turtle, now, i said the eggs, not the hatchlings, which is also an element, but the eggs, the criminal penalties are severe. up to 100,000 dollar fine, and a year in prison. why? why are their laws in place that protect the eggs of a sea turtle, or the eggs of eagles? because when you destroy an egg, you are killing a pre-born baby sea turtle, or, a pretty born baby eagle. yet, when it comes to a pre-born human baby, rather than a sea turtle, that baby will be stripped of all protections in all 50 states, under the democrat's bill. >> oh, you want to know what i think about abortion? let me tell you. you see, women are like sea turtles.
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that was a montana republican senator, steve daines, on the floor of the actually united states senate last night, with that picture of the sea turtles. senator daines made those, in anticipation of the senate vote to codify roe v. wade into law. the bill needed 60 votes to become law. all 50 republicans in the senate voted against it. 49 of the 50 democrats in the senate voted in favor of the bill. you don't really need me to tell you which democrats voted against it, do you? right. the rest of the democratic party is already preparing to make that an issue in the november election but for many women november maybe do late. which is everybody else do at this? joining us is alexis mcgill johnson, president and ceo of planned parenthood axiom fund. thank you for being here, alexis. neither you, or many people were surprised by the outcome of the election. the point there was to get everyone on record and to know
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how they would vote. again, no surprises. but what are you thinking now? after this vote and after the symbolic effort to codify abortion protections? what happens now? >> look -- in a moment where we have been saying that the sky is falling, that we thought the court was ready to overturn roe v. wade, and that the senate had an opportunity to act, not just once but actually twice. access to abortion rights. we think it's incredibly important to support the work here of the senate, under the leadership of humor. and we wanted to make sure that we got every senator on record so that we could hold to account and explain to people why they cannot have the rights that they want. the rights that they have been asking for to be protected. we think that is incredibly important and we are going to keep fighting. we are going to keep fighting at the national, state and local level for access to safe and legal abortion. because what we anticipate under this draft opinion -- it's why the opposition is already forecasting. either a full on national, six-week ban, of further erosion,'s that have been -- access throughout, not just in
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the 26 rates states that are poised to turn to stop access. but essentially the entire country. >> so, these 26 states -- there are a few -- unembarrassed eight that have a trick or law, which means that nothing will happen if it is overturned. there are a number of states that have protections in their state constitutions, protecting a woman's right to have an abortion. and the rights of people who assist in that abortion to not be sued. is that a direction the energy should be focused on? or is that a very long term process? >> i think it is both. it's incredibly important that we have states that are pushing the boundaries of access, making sure they are doing that everything too only to codify
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the right, but to also actually create ways in which that care can be covered in their states, through their budgets. so, i think that that is incredibly important for strategy as we need to expand access to care while we lose it. but that is not a future state. right? the idea that the people of texas and missouri and oklahoma have to travel outside of their states -- we have already seen with that looks like right now in texas, which is effectively a post-roe v. wade state with a six-week ban. when you have opposition republicans talking about forecasting, essentially, their playbook. it is essentially a nationwide six-week ban, you have to consider the fact that we know where they are going with this. they are not to stop and with the overturning. they're returning that to the states. they are trying to outlaw abortion altogether in as many states as possible. >> can i just speak about that practically? there are certain mount of logistics involved in any abortion services. obviously, planned parenthood and others try to reduce that, the obstacles and of the
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logistics. but there are some. and when you travel to another state there are more. and when you have six-week abortion bans of becomes that much more complicated to because of the amount of time. the time when a woman fans out that she is pregnant and then by -- she has to have an abortion, -- >> absolutely. a six-week abortion ban means you are finding out, at best, maybe two weeks after this period. that is -- many people find -- know they are pregnant. we have seen 1000 percent increase in texas just in the last nine months, because of the way is b e has structured and created such a chilling effect on abortion provision in the state. so, we know what it looks like already, ali.
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we know what it means for someone who had to travel 1000 miles to get childcare. and to take time off from work. and to secure an appointment and find a hotel room. and pay for six-dollar gas to drive 1000 miles. all of those things are additional burdens that add up and layer up to someone being able to get the care. abortion's health care. so, the idea that you can -- be in a state where you are free, essentially, and in a state where you can be denied the very basic equality that women expect, it is just unconscionable. >> basic equality. , thank you for joining us alexis mcgill johnson, alexis is the president and ceo of planned parenthood action fund. we thank you for your time. >> up next, the latest leak from the supreme court. yes, another one. we will tell you waited about. a constitutional scholar joins us next. >> tech: stay safe with safelite. schedule now. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ entresto is the number one heart failure brand prescribed by cardiologists
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we will help get you the best result possible. ♪ the barnes firm, injury attorneys ♪ call one eight hundred,est resul eight million ♪ was shaken by the unauthorized publication of justice alito's draft opinion signaling that five justices were prepared to overturn roe v. wade. but in the wake of that many supreme court watchers noted that information had already started coming out of the court a week prior, specifically they pointed to this piece, published by the wall street journal editorial board, on april 26th, that seems to foreshadow the direction in which the court was moving. quote, chief justice john roberts tried during the oral argument to find a middle way. he appeared to want to sustain the mississippi law on grounds that it doesn't violate casey's test of whether there is an undue burden on the ability to obtain an abortion.
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if he pulls another justice to his side, he could ride the plurality opinion that controls and tips three decision. if you can't, and justice thomas will decide the opinion, and the vote could be 54. our guess is that justice alito would get the assignment. but justices can change their mind. that's where the chief did in the obama care case in 2012, much to the display of other conservatives. roberts may be trying to turn another justice now, and quote. now, that was written a week before the draft opinion leaked. then hours after the draft opinion leaked itself, to cnn, that very same night, reported very specific details about john roberts's position. quote, chief justice john roberts did not want to completely overturn roe v. wade, meaning he would have dissented from part of illegal draft opinion. roberts is willing, however, to uphold the mississippi law that would ban abortion in 15 weeks of pregnancy. days later we saw yet another leak, when the washington post
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reported information based on private discussions inside the court. quote, a person close to the most conservative members of the court said roberts told his fellow tourists in a private conference in early december that he planned to uphold the state law and write an opinion that left roe and casey in place for now. but the other conservatives were more interested in an opinion that overturned the precedents of the person said. now today political reports that justice alito's report from february is the only opinion that circulated inside the court so far. it reports vulnerable justices have yet to circulate a descent, and there is no revised majority decision. what we have seen is in so far, and it is still the majority decision. quote, none of the conservative justices who initially sided with alito have today to switch their votes. that is just the latest leak from the court as it prepares to deliver its final opinion before the july summer break.
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the succession of leaks combined with the substance of the opinion itself was has created a firestorm of controversy around the court, physically embodied by the high fence surrounding the a bill the building. now and the groups of protesters some justices homes. tomorrow the nine justices will meet for the first time, face to face since the draft majority opinion was leaked. so what does this all mean for the court and its legitimacy going forward? joining us now is kenji yoshino, professor of constitutional law in new york university law school. thank you for being with us tonight. way this, because some people are all about the leak. most people, especially those of us who aren't lawyers, are all about the underlying law and what is going to happen, to abortion rights and perhaps other light rights going forward. what is the importance or connection between the two. >> i think the latter is far
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more important, and you're absolutely right to focus on. it but they are both important. so just to get the lead out of the way i just want to drop in opinion say that dropping opinions one thing but the study is just ripped a bit. the justice and they're embedded sources inside the supreme court. it's really troubling. i just want to relied everyone that we think of a supreme court as invulnerable institution, but that wasn't always the case. if we go back to the founding we see that the court was in fact the very fragile institution, and that the supreme court justices would often leave the court in order to be justices on state supreme courts or to be foreign diplomats, something that i think would be unimaginable today. it has built up its mystique in its prestige, but a lot of that has to do with its procedural regularity and its confidentiality. the more that gets breached as these leaks suggest that they are being breached, the more legitimacy of the court is going to take a hit. so one thing i want to look for, ali, is in these future big ticket cases, are we to expect
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similar decision drops of draft opinions prior to the issuance of the opinion itself. >> it's kind of interesting, though, if you do that. you had suggested that if you do that and it feels almost like the issuance of a regulation, where drafter glaciers are subjected to a notice variant and comment procedures before they come final. that's not how the supreme court rolls. it's how my city council roles. it's how a lot of states roll when they've got a lot to put out. but you suggested that would be a sea change. they float something out there to see how it cools and wait to see to get feedback before they get to their final decision. >> it has guarded its confidentiality, and as justice ginsburg says, don't talk in those who talk don't know. so as adam look tax and in the article that he published a couple of hours ago in the new york times, the supreme court is now starting to look like
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the other branches of government, and it's starting to look leaky in ways that can only damage its legitimacy going forward. >> let's assume that there are a lot of americans that think the legitimacy is damaged, either because of the politicization of the court or the leaks or things like that. what is the fix? and in attempting to fix it, do you risk more damage? >> i think that the fix is really, first of all, to think about how to stop leaking. but i think more deeply, more importantly, as you gestured at the top of the conversation, it's to make sure that we make our eyes on the prize. when i think about those two threats to the legitimacy of the court, there are really two of them. one of them is the leaking, is the other one is the substance of the drop in itself. as threatening as these leaks are, they are as nothing compared to the trampling of precedent and the trampling of rights that are embodied in
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this opinion. my real concern about the leaks is that i'm quite ambivalent about talking about that, even though they are important. i'm ambivalent about them because every single minute that we spend talking about the leaks is a minute that we're not talking about the horror of the substance of the opinion itself. >> let's do that. when one is reading the constitution, one comes away with two things. a lot of remarkably interesting stuff in the constitution, and it feels a little removed from our daily lives because it does enumerate writes we know to be ours and we know to be protected, but they're not run into the constitution. alito made a suggestion that roe is not secure because it's not an enumerated write the constitution. a lot of smart people like you have looked at that and said that argument doesn't hold a lot of water. >> right. first of all, we all know that there are unenumerated rights. the right to marry, the right to vote, the right to cross straight lines. none of these are described in the constitution.
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in fact the ninth amendment says, the enumeration of the conversation will not be construed to disparage others failed by the people. there are text in the constitution they tell us that there are non-textual rights in the constitution, if you will. so the question is not whether there are unenumerated threats, but which ones are going to be tech protected. and the devastated impact of this opinion is that it hurt articulate's attested in dangerous so many of the personal rights that have been assured over the past five decades or so since griswold versus committed case in 1965. so again a lot of the abortion right. the most ex crumble saying that they did was bombed us back to a 1970s vision of what women's autonomy and equality mean in this country. that is a horrifying aspect of the opinion, and all of us who
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consider our sales allies to women should actually be extremely concerned about that, to put it mildly. but i also want to say that the additional terrible part of this opinion is that it said that the only unenumerated writes we are going to protect our those that are, quote unquote, deeply rooted in this nation's history and traditions. if we apply that test, which, despite the courts claims to the contrary, ignores higher precedent, what we would get rid of our things like the right to same sex marriage, the right to privacy in our sexual conduct, the right contraception, even the right to interracial marriage. so we should all be sounding the alarm bell. you start to see, ali, why i'm a little less concerned about the leak and a little more concerned about the substance of the opinion. even if, in response to this leak, let's say best-case an area they change opinions, they water it down, and they come up with a much more anodyne version of what they wrote in this draft opinion, they still
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cannot on ring the bell or an poison the well. we now know that there are at least five justices on the supreme court who are willing to completely trample on the personal rights that we all depend on for functioning modern society. >> you've made your case. well professor yoshino. we appreciate it. kenji yoshino is a professor of law. we appreciate your time tonight. still ahead, senator chris murphy joins us next to talk about the war in ukraine. america's role in, it into days vote on abortion rights. stay with us. didates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire it's time for our memorial day sale on the sleep number 360 smart bed. it senses your movement and automatically adjusts so you both stay comfortable, matching your job description. and can help you get almost 30 minutes more restful sleep per night. save $1,000 on the sleep number 360 special edition smart bed, queen now only $1,999. only for a limited time.
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ukrainian soldiers reported to an artillery school in southwest germany to begin training on the howard's or 2000, a great big gun that fires 150 millimeter rounds at targets up to 35 miles away. this marks the first time troops on ukraine's armed forces have received this kind of instruction in germany. it comes less than a week after germany announced it would send seven of the self propelled long-range artillery systems to ukraine, which is a reversal of german policy of not sending heavy weaponry to war zones because of its nazi history. the u.s. has sent ukraine 90 of our own howitzer systems called am triple seven howitzers, along with artillery rounds and other material. this is video of troops at an air reserve base in california, loading up some of those howitzers for shipment last
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month. last night the house voted overwhelmingly to pass a bill that provide another 40 billion dollars of military and humanitarian aid to ukraine, in addition to the nearly 14 billion dollars that lawmakers approved in march. president biden asked congress to approve 33 billion dollars but lawmakers increase that funding. senator schumer has pledged swift action to pass it, and that could happen as early as tomorrow. ukrainian prat president, vladimir zelenskyy, thank the united states in this message, saying the funds would, be quote, used quickly and without any red terry, to strength and
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advances of. here's the defense secretary of the house appropriations subcommittee tonight. >> our most urgent goal continues to be sending ukrainian capabilities they need the most right now, as the war has shifted to the donbas. the coming weeks will be critical for ukraine. >> joining us now is democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut, member of the foreign relations committee and part of a bipartisan delegation that traveled to serbia last month to urge them to join europe in imposing sanctions on russia. he is just a lawmaker we want to hear about on this issue. so senator murphy, thank you for being here tonight. i want to get your take on this. you have been to ukraine, you visited with president zelenskyy a few times now. you've got a real sense of him and the company and the way the war is going. give me your 30,000 foot view to go alongside friends secretary austin's, that something about the next few weeks is going to be crucial for this war for ukraine. >> i have probably been to the ukraine as many or more times than any other member of the senate. we are all absolutely blown away by the cops that capacity of the heroism of the ukrainian people and their armed forces. but you are right, we are entering a really critical
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moment in this war. ukraine has the opportunity to go on the offense in eastern ukraine, to deliver a pretty crippling but blow to russia. russia is looking at the end of this year, knowing that they are soon going to run out of money to continue to fight this war. they are going to start running out of defenceman aerial as our defense import sanctions start to take hold. in the next few weeks it will be critical, because as russia 's objectives start to become more limited, we have the opportunity to push them back on their heels, even as they seek to control even a portion of the ukraine, very different from their original goal to take over the whole country. everybody is watching, the chinese are watching, they have ambitions to invade taiwan and as they watch russia fail, as they watch russia fail pay this him norm's price for their
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invasion of the ukraine, it resets their calculation of what they may do. we are trying to keep the postwar order vaguely intact in the next few weeks and it will be critical to whether we succeed or fail. >> you made an interesting point. in the last weeks china has sent 48 aircraft into taiwanese airspace. joe biden is actually made a commitment at some point that if taiwan comes under some sort of attack, america will stand by it. but the american public is frustrated by war and participation in the war.
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the american public, like every public in the world, is frustrated by high gas prices. if, as the director of national intelligence said today, this could end up being a longer term war than expected, isn't that advantages to russia? to convince the american fear that whatever pain is everybody is putting up with is going to go on longer? >> as barack obama once famously said, i'm not against all wars, i'm just against don wars. the american public know down wars when they see them. they know wars of choice, like the war in iraq. they're ready to support engagement in ukraine's war, because they know ukraine denounced for this war. this is different from other engagement. they understand that this is a hinge moment in history, and america needs to be president present. i take this that there is potential that it fades from the news and the american public turns to other subjects. but as i stated earlier, really, russia has more to lose from a long war because the sanctions are crippling. they only have a certain amount of reserves. as europe in the united states
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start to wane ourselves off of russian oil and gas, they simply aren't going to have the money to pay for what they are trying to do in eastern ukraine. so yes, there is a risk that the world starts to lose focus. but there is a bigger risk that russia is just going to run out of cash. >> senator, i want to ask you your republican colleagues, and senator joe manchin voted to block it in an abortion rights bill. can you get your sense of what you think has to happen next? >> we've got to win elections. as you saw today, right now, we have 49 votes, maybe 50, 51 votes. four bills that protect women's right to make decisions about their own body, keep government out of those decisions. we've got to keep on, the republicans, we don't think this is the last vote we will take on the visuals choice between now in the end of the year. we just have to up our numbers because we need to do two things, we need to get low pro-choice senators, which means more democrats, but we also need to get more people in
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the senate who aren't going to let the rule stand in a way of the majority of americans, 65% of which don't want the government to make decisions over women's health care, to be able to have bills passed to protect those rights. so let's just go out there and win elections, get more pro-choice members in the house and the senate elected, and maybe things will look different next january. >> democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut, member of the foreign relations committee. we appreciate your time. we'll be right back. what's on the horizon? the answers lie beyond the roads we know. t energy demand is growing, and the world needs lower carbon solutions to keep up.
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tonight, we are going to see you again tomorrow here on msnbc prime. it's time now for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. >> good evening ali, and we will be joined by someone who joined us on the night that we first had our hands on this late supreme court decision, including congresswoman katie porter, and it is interesting to get people's reaction now from that night, when hands were shaking when they were reading the sting. >> i look forward to it, my friend. have a great show. >> thank you. once again, the senate did what it is structurally built to do. it crushed democracy. a group of senators who represent 186 million people were defeated in a senate vote
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today by group of senators who represent 144 million people. the founders debated whether the number of senators should be proportional to the populations of the states. and in the end, they landed on a compromise position of two senators per state, which did not seem like an atrocious perversion of democracy at the time. because the biggest state, virginia, had only 747,000 people. but today, washington d. c., which is represented by zero senators, as basically that population. when the founders agreed, in the end, to two senators per state, the total population of the country they were forming was 2. 7 million people. it was inconceivable to the founders at the time that the population of brooklyn would be 2. 7 million people as it is today.

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