tv Velshi MSNBC May 21, 2022 5:00am-6:00am PDT
presidents cronies. the former attorney general, barr, is talking about testifying. -- you will talk about the twice impeached ex president who berated the attorney general barr for not getting the justice department to validate his lies about the 2020 presidential election results. axios reports that no from decisions have been made by the committee on whether to invite barr to appear for public hearing next month. the committee has already spoken with one of the most prominent pushes of the 2020 election lies. rudy giuliani, the former disgraced former attorney testified virtually vest in front of the committee yesterday. this was for nine hours, including breaks. -- not all of the ex presidents allies are cooperating with the january 6th investigation. john eastman on attorney in the architect and who fought to have pence overturning the election on this fateful day,
is seeking to stop the january six committee from obtaining to handwritten notes that he allegedly received from the former president his self. the lawyers have characterized the notes as quintessential privileged material. such communications are protected by attorney client privilege. no word yet on whether the argument will hold up. as the january six committee prepares to take its pro public, it becomes every day that the attack on the capitol was part of a larger scheme to overturn the election results, and that there was a lot more going on behind the scenes. you remember that the ex president and his allies focus most of the detention and election lies on battleground states like arizona, georgia, pennsylvania, where biden's margins a victim were relatively narrow. one wave did not get of way with it was because the governors of those states decide to not be complacent in helping the fraudsters overturn the will of the majority of their voters. those actions, a fire wall of
sorts, could be crumbling before our very eyes. case in point, the newly minted republican nominee in pennsylvania's race for governor, -- the merchant of misinformation was expected to win the gop primary now that he has, he is a step closer to becoming governor of that swing state. that is bad news for those who believe in democracy. wherever you live in this country. here is how the washington post described him. he is a state senator, and counted for government, he has vowed to decertify voting machines in counties where he suspects that the laws are rigged. there are certain -- should have the right to choose which presidential electors to stand to washington. he travel to bc on january six. he was walking with the crowd toward the capitol as one man removes a blind bike rock --
he denies entering the capitol. since the pennsylvania governor will have oversight of the 24 vote count in his state, if marianna wins against the democratic nomination josh shapiro, the state could become ground zero for election denial. it is not just pennsylvania you need to worry about. according to the states united action, a nonpartisan, non profit, that advocates to protect for integration -- election -- they are running a governor for 24 states. two out of every three governors is racist. this includes an election denier. it's not like they need to win the governor ship in all 24 states to impact the future of income of other elections. next federal election, they probably only need to win in one of those key states in order to tip the scales in favor of the republican nomination. this is especially if it is a
close race. if you thought things were bad after the 2020 election, things could get worse. joining me now is larry plaid. he is the cofounder ankle executor of the philadelphia citizen, which is an independent news outlet. larry, good to see you. thank you are joining us this morning. you and i talked about those before the primary. there are national reverberations to the idea. someone dug mastriano and vowed that he is a big lie believer and could be the governor of a state like pennsylvania, which is a close state between republicans and democrats. >> yes, the purple state. people are freaking out here. you have an insurrectionist, an extremist, a christian nationalist. he billing begins his speeches by quoting corinthians. unlike in our senate race where you will see the republicans,
whoever wins between oz and mccormack, they will immediately in the general election as discussed, tack back to the political center for general election in a purple state. mastriano will not. this is a crusade. it is fascinating that he is running against josh shapiro who is whose nickname is in political series over here. it is the jewish jfk. you have a christian nationalist true believer running against shapiro. as you and i discussed, alicia, pure wanted mast reno. he broke cost custom and wrote an ad in the primary trying to convince republican voters to vote for mastriano. if you care for what you wish for. >> let's speak to motivation. the reason that shapiro, who at the moment's favorite to win and it would be nice out. the reason that shapiro wanted mast row is that people,
democrats would be more motivated to come out. chris jones were come out because they do not want him to be the -- the mast randall guy is way too far off for us. in motivates republicans. to it motivates far right republicans to have national win the primary. >> the calculus is that pennsylvania has always been a state in the general election that goes for the moderate lane. swing voters break it to moderate republicans. they will casey allen specter and so forth. it is in keeping with tradition. the variable, the wildcard, is exactly what you point out we are in the new paradigm. the old papal playbook might not apply. -- shapiro is an adept politician.
i'm still trying to figure out how he cleared the field and ran by himself, unopposed in the primary. he has a smart political team around him. it will be really fascinating to see that he is, by nature, a centrist. he will be crafting a message to the a reasonable middle of pennsylvania. >> let's talk a little bit about how important it is. we remember watching the result of the last election, which we were not decided and called until pennsylvania had made a determination. there was a lot of disputes, a lot of court cases, a lot of action in pennsylvania before the election which involved doug mast rhiana and voter suppression. there were other things that he was involved in. pennsylvania matters disproportionally in this election along with another amount of state.
this can be tipped incorrectly because of people running elections in any of the states. pennsylvania did not do the wrong thing because republicans and democrats decide to count the vote the right way and count them honestly. , a dip goes to those nameless bureaucratic election workers. in philadelphia, the republican city commissioner, they are three key city commissioners, and they buy a home room charter law. one of them has to be of a minority party. ali schmidt is the one who was the city committee -- he stood up to donald trump's tweets and maga death threats to him and his family. he says said time and time again that it was a free and fair election in pennsylvania. if it were not for that republican city commissioner, the story may have been very different in 2020. that is where the scary.
democracy might ride on the integrity of a random city worker throughout the country? it is scary but also inspiring that we have these election workers who are doing the work of democracy on the ground every day. >> big underscore. big highlight that there are republicans across this country who are still doing the right thing and will stand up for democracy, regardless of political outcome, which is where we should all be,. larry, good to see you my friend. he is the cofounder and co-director of the philadelphia citizen and philadelphia outlet. i'm on the board. joining me is nick fully the the author of divisional law and constitutional law. he is a contributing columnist for the washington post. he this separated or wrote
about battles -- thank you for being with us. you and i were your together a few days ago. we are having conversations about people across the political spectrum about the integrity of our elections in the united states. i came away very happy happy to talk to small people. i was sad that across the political spectrum there is agreements that the next elections are not going to be most secure than the ones that from before. they are secure in themselves but they are not secure from the big lie. >> correct, good morning. good to be with you. my concern is the same with your concern. the good news is there is a fix, at least if we want to focus on the next presidential election than to avoid an insurrection or the attempt to subvert democracy that did not work. as you are suggesting, it might be attempted again. for congress to change the law that congress uses to count the
electoral votes, that come from the states. it is a flaw and this current law that would allow a governor, a mischief's governor like we have talked about, combined with a mischievous congress to negate what the voters want. congress could change that law to make sure that the accurate count of the balance prevails. this is as it should. >> you are talking about the electoral college act? >> yes -- it is an arcane piece of law from the 19th century that we usually do not have to think about. because it will happen last january 6th, we realized, it has a lot of flaws that should be fixed. >> it does seem like ideologically, there is support for fixing this? there's identification that this is a problem. it seemed relatively easy to do. >> the good news again is, as i
understand, from your reporting and from others, there is a bipartisan group of senators. there is about a dozen senators who are working on this. i think there is a sense that the principle is that the fix should be along the lines that we were talking about. you do have to hammer out these details into technical language. that is what they are looking to work on. i wish this was a job number one after the january 6th. this is given what we saw, this should have been the first electoral form agenda. as you all know, congress took up a very large piece of legislation that ultimately did not pass the filibuster and was never adopted. we are now at the point where this has to be done. it needs to be getting done before the midterms to be prepared for the next time. >> i hope everyone takes the warning seriously. good to see you. thanks for joining us. we always appreciate it. net foley is the director of election law and constitutional
law at the ohio state university and the author of several books including, ballot battles, the history of disputed elections in the united states. we will have much more on the big lie and the fight of american democracy later on in the show. first, we will head overseas to president biden who has a busy day already during his first trip to asia as president. earlier this morning, he touched down in south korea. he was greeted by his counterpart, president yun sook you. they held a bilateral meeting of a news conference. the major topic was the situation with north korea. we will talk amount about this today and tomorrow. nbc has learned from a u.s. official that they have authored north korea to covid 19 relief including vaccines as early as the last week. they claimed to invade the disease in the last couple of weeks when the case counts exploded, potentially into the millions. as part of the trip this morning, biden signed it to light puzzled legislation. both were flown to him in self
care or create for his signature. one is a 40 billion dollar aid package for ukraine and the access to formula act which also acts as a tease for us. coming up, we will go into the baby formula shortage. we will have a large reporting from kharkiv, a city that has been of liberty from russian invaders. invaders g challenge. and everyone on social media is trying me. i'm trending so hard that “hashtag common sense” can't keep up. this is going to get tens and tens of views. ♪ ♪ ( car crashing ) ♪ ♪ but if you don't have the right auto insurance coverage, you could be left to pay for this... yourself. call a local agent or 1-888-allstate for a quote today. - [narrator] it's a mixed up world. and the way we work looks a little different. but whether you embrace the new normal or just want to get back to the routines that feel right, x-chair continues to be at the forefront of change, which is why we've launched the all new x-chair with elemax.
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putin stated goals of the war in ukraine, which he doesn't call a war, was to stop the eastward expansion of nato. it's starting to look like he is achieving exactly the opposite. this week both finland and sweden, long neutral countries, submit applications to become part of the defense alliance. but turkey, subsequently surprise nato and allies by threatening very publicly to veto the admission of both nordic nations over allegations that they are funding forces in the middle east, which turkey considers terrorist forces. generally speaking, terrorists that are not forces that are not friendly to the turkish government. nato decisions have to be unanimous, so this is an. issue new officials believe the issue will be resolved and supports the mission of finland and sweden. tomato russia's meanwhile halting gas emissions to finland. the decision to hold gas is more likely also part of putin
's previously threatened retaliation against countries that applied to join nato. speaking of reallocation, the supporting russia declared a travel ban for 963 americans, kind of all of whom are zero interest in going to russia, but include biden, secretary of state anthony blinken, cia chief william burns, like i said people who don't have plans to go to russia anytime soon. who needs a host of other issues. the least of which are reports that russia may be facing a major troop shortage. could be in trouble by the summer. moscow seems to be aware of that fact, as its parliament is set to get rid of the upper age restrictions for first-time military science. meanwhile, the united states is set to drastically increase its investments in the war, approving some 40 billion dollars worth of military, humanitarian, and other aid for ukraine. as i mentioned before the break, president biden is signed that legislation, while on a trip to south korea. a physical copy of the bill was flown to him there for him to
hansen. meanwhile the fighting. now on day 87, continues in ukraine. in areas in the, east and the south, continuing a successful counter offensive in the northeast, pushing russia's forces forever from the major city of kharkiv. joining me now, live from kharkiv, is nbc news correspondent erin mclaughlin. aaron, good morning or good afternoon to you. it is 3:20 in the afternoon there. yesterday, president volodymyr zelenskyy reported that a russian missile had struck kharkiv and wounded seven people including an 11 year old child. so while ukrainians are making some progress there, they are not the russians. >> yeah, that is exactly that right ali, that attack that you're talking about was on a market happening in the overnight hours this morning. we tried to make our way to that market to see the aftermath of that apparent attack for ourselves as we are moving towards the market
though, we heard repeated sounds of explosions and were forced to turn around. this is still a city under attack, under assault, by the russians. there were reports of shelling earlier in the suburbs. ukrainian officials tell us that those americans howitzers have been moved into place there to defend this city and the russians are trying to take those howitzers out. meanwhile the focus of this war really shifted to the donbas region. ukraine's industrial hemp heartland where russia has been making gains, slowly but surely, according to u.s. officials there. the progress has been incremental and all eyes right now are on the city severed enacts, overnight ukrainian officials announcing a vague evacuation plans of the entire luhansk region as russians and pushing in, killing civilians,
and shelling around that city. if they do manage to capture separated nets, which is a big if at this point, because ukrainians are fighting back. that means that the russians will have control of the entire luhansk region, which building on their victory over the city of mariupol, which russians that claim complete control over, we get a strategic advantage in this fight. ali. >> erin, thank you for reporting, i appreciated. and good to see you my friend, erin loughlin live in ukraine. >> well i got word christ gets tossed read a lot, but for tens of millions of americans the baby formula shortage is an actual crisis. the biden administration has finally got a plan to alleviate some of that pain. we are going to talk about it next. an velshi. velshi. velshi. ♪ crossed the desert's bare, man. ♪ ♪ i've breathed the mountain air, man. ♪ ♪ of travel i've had my share, man. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere. ♪
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earlier this morning president biden passed the access to formula baby formula act of 2022. it is going to expand access to baby format for certain families during this nationwide sorted shortage, after congress passed the legislation earlier this week. this is in addition to the white house announcing operation fly formula, which is a program that will use u.s. military aircraft to import formula from other nations. air shipments containing the equivalent of one and a half million eight health bottles of formulas are set to be shipped from europe to indiana. from there the formula will be distributed nationwide. and friday, the state department says it is still working at the details of the first formula flight. in addition to operations live formula, president biden invoked the defense production act on wednesday to ramp up manufacturing and boost the supply of baby formula. that's of course is all welcome news, but you might be thinking, why did we have a baby formula shortage in the first place? and why did it take so long to figure out what's happening? and fix? it most of this can be traced back to a contamination issue, in a key michigan factory
belong into abbott nutrition. which produces similar acts formula as well as other brands. abbott issued a recall and voluntarily shut down the facility in february, after tainted formula was allegedly linked to four bacterial infections in infants. two of whom died. abbott says there's no evidence it's product cause the illness, but to this day the prince plant is not reopened. and that prolonged shutdown, combined with other supply chain issues that already existed, because of the pandemic has brought us to this point. that one may ask, how does one facility for one company cause this kind of chaos? well for perspective, administration is said to control roughly 48% of the baby formula market, and it's actually michigan's its biggest. no one saw a baby formula shortage coming. it was the result of a series of unfortunate events. but depending on what you think, it doesn't really matter what you think governments will should be. i would imagine you this would be a big jump for government. anticipating major supply crises.
you have to be ready to fix it. its nationwide parental anxiety could've been avoided. joining me now is how they're long, and economic columnist and editorial board member at the washington post. heather, good to see you. thank you for being with us. these acts have stupid names because they should be acts to actually deal with a baby formula crisis of 2022. and there are lots of reasons for it. there are some obvious solutions to this and things like this. i am mostly worried about what are we gonna be talking about three months or four months. are we gonna have a shortage of eggs, or something? how do we prevent this from happening? >> yeah you're absolutely right. this is baby formula crisis, it is the same story we have heard over and over during this pandemic where we have an industry with two few companies supplying the s market. in this case, for different companies supply over 90% of the u.s. market. so obviously when one of, them the biggest one i have, it suddenly is not producing a lot of formula, we can't make that
up overnight. you can't magically find more formula. but the simple solution here would have been to import formula from abroad. to import from europe, or canada, or japan, or australia. country said clearly do a pretty good job a feeding their babies, feeding their children, and have similar standards to us. but it just took so long. that plant shut down in february, and we are finally getting some european infant formula on an airplane to come to the united states in may. this should have happened weeks ago. heather, i am assuming that there is someone sitting in a dusty office somewhere in washington or somewhere else and who is looking at this all the time. all of the job if it is available. they look at all of these supply issues and has a list of red alert that says 40% of all baby america before in america comes from one factory.
we have a plan in case one factory goes down and there is a problem. i heard, as a result of the production act have been started decades ago, there was this operation. the government constantly tracked things that could go wrong and started its contingency plans about how to fix it. we started during the pandemic that this is not what happened. it is a fix for this? >> i think you are right. it is certainly something that we tried to expand on. they have many different supply chains that they are overseeing to make sure that there are few shortages. you are right. baby formula just slip under the radar. there are now calls for what you are saying, for someone who would actively monitor this and actively be able to say, now is the time to increase the imports from abroad, now is the time to make those changes so that women, infant, and children program of la low income families are not restricted of what they can
buy. they could even be able to go to the store right now and by what they could find if they can find something on the shelf. that is not the case until the president signed the legislation today. i would say, you are right, there are two solutions here. someone needs to actually monitor and watch this. the second is, why are we not allowing imports even in normal times? >> you heard about this on may 8th. americans are stuck in an age of scarcity and they do not like it. americans are not used to scarcity. this compounds of frustration that politician spent the year saying that this will be fixed tunes. this keeps coming. this is amidst the baby formula shortage, russia's war in ukraine triggering a food supply crisis, and china's factories shutting down and delaying shipments. that is contributing to inflation. folks are chasing goods and they are not on the shelves. in theory, this is a solvable
problem. we are not short of goods in the world, generally. we are short of having goes in the right place at the right time. >> exactly. this feels different people. not only are the prices high. we certainly see this with baby formula, but at the same, time even if you are willing to pay the high price for the house or new car, you still might not get it. there are simply not enough phones for sale, cars for sale, baby formula on the shelves. this is a very new experience. most americans are not used to this age of scarcity. we have not seen this for decades. we have not seen it across this many different types of goods. it is contributing to the frustration people have with the economy right now. it is compounding the feeling that even if i did all of the right things, save my money, trying to spend it to buy what i need, i still cannot get it.
i cannot get ahead. >> heather, good to see you. thank you for joining us. we appreciate your analysis. she is an economic columnist and a board member of the washington post. some nations are starting to sever their ties to russian energy but oil sales continue to financially crop up the war in ukraine. as the saying goes. it is all about the oil. however, it actually does not to be that way. no to be that way this... is the planning effect. this is how it feels to know you have a wealth plan that covers everything that's important to you. this is what it's like to have a dedicated fidelity advisor looking at your full financial picture. making sure you have the right balance of risk and reward. and helping you plan for future generations. this is "the planning effect" from fidelity. it's still the eat fresh® refresh, and now subway® is refreshing their classics, like the sweet onion teriyaki sauce, topped on tender shaved steak.
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discuss the economics of climate change, fossil fuels, and russia's role in all of this, it's dr. spencer glendon. he's a senior friend fellow at the would roll climate research center and the author of probable futures, geared towards making the consequences of global climate change pivoted accessible to people. doctor glen, and good to see. you and i spoke sometime ago when i was preparing for a presidential forum on climate. because you bridge this world of understanding finance with understanding the imperatives of fighting climate change. so i thought of you when i saw
what your money is doing, and thinking to myself, is this a blueprint that we can all pick up or just germany specific. >> oh, well first of all it is nice to see you in person. thank you for having me. i do think that, let me not quality blueprint by called an example. and the example i would say here is the example german leadership, expanding their imagination about how things might go wrong. so one way to think about this is that germany have this notion that if they created a pipeline that they needed friendship, the good things would follow naturally. and they feel to think through the idea that troubling could happen if they get with russia dependency races. and i think this is a problem, we have leaders in this world who basically experienced good times for 50 years straight. we don't have ceos in this country have experienced rising interest. rates whatever them to imagine bad things happening. and so you now have a prompt
for a more creative group of thinking, or set of thinking, about what is happening in germany and the risk that the chairman will face. so they consider new options. and those two options have been sitting around for a long time ready to be embraced. and so, yes. i think that this is a new paradigm and that you could have this happen pretty much anywhere in the world. >> when you've got high oil prices, it often prompts people to do better things around energy, but right now the pressure is on defined different options for countries are buying russian oil and russian gas including setting up these two ports in germany, something they never did. and for bringing in natural gas. and they're often people who are trying to fight climate change you are go going saying we're going in the wrong direction, we're bringing prices down in the immediate term because we need to, because people are suffering because of inflation. but this should be the clarion call. this should be the moment in which we say, it is not just about supporting countries who don't follow the rules, like russia, this is the opportunity
to change things. do you think we are grasping the opportunity well enough? obviously, germany is in a bind. they are in a corner, they have to do it. we are not in america. >> yeah, i think that is a great question. that is why i agreed to be on the show today. it is exciting to think that maybe people will start to change priorities. essentially, we have to decide what we value. as you say i spent a fair amount of time talking to investors and when i do so, when inevitably happens as their kids come up. and they talk about how their kids care a lot of a climate change. and i asked them well, are you able to explain why you are and willing to accept stepped slightly lower returns in your portfolio or decreasing the risk of terrible things happening in the future for children and basically all the species on earth? and is this prioritization of what matters. and so earlier you are talking about baby formula in a way that i think was quite instructive. we have developed a framework for business in united states and for investing that is focused on maximization and not
on maintenance or resilience or risk. companies don't pay for risk services unless they are forced to buy some regulator. and so we have a pretty low risk awareness in american culture in a pretty high focus on maximization, an optimization, and on leverage. in fact the focus on tech knowledge the idea that technology will say this is one of america's biggest crutches. i think there is a lot of wisdom in the idea that we use the term silver bullet, the idea that something exotic and violent will solve our problems is a way that americans express something. instead we could not in the maintenance department be the department of fixes things, but maintains things. so if you look at the research on what germany could do, you the biggest thing could do is just waste less energy. and that is even more trade america. and so you have these things like wasting less, being more efficient, they would pay up quickly for everybody. we maintain a mindset, especially the corporate level, of maximization and leverage.
and so backing away from one embracing the other, would undoubtedly reed lead to better economic but also lead to sort of lower risk. >> that's what you have done a lot of work on this, and we appreciate you making that accessible for us. we hope you have many more of these conversations, dr. spencer clinton is the founder of probable futures. thank you for joining us this morning. >> well as lawyer bell to viewers know, our world is full of geopolitical crises from warren land kong whites to human rights and the climate crisis, and coronavirus. ian braver, our friend and author of the new hit bestseller the power crisis, says it's not too late to give up on the international order, to get some of these text. he joins me live on set, here on velshi in just a moment. her on velshi in just a moment on velshi in just a moment if your moderate to severe crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms are stopping you in your tracks... choose stelara® from the start... and move toward relief after the first dose... with injections every two months. stelara® may increase your risk of infections, some serious, and cancer.
before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, sores, new skin growths, have had cancer, or if you need a vaccine. pres, a rare, potentially fatal brain condition, may be possible. some serious allergic reactions and lung inflammation can occur. feel unstoppable. ask your doctor how lasting remission can start with stelara®. janssen can help you explore cost support options. (fisher investments) it's easy to think that all money managers are pretty much the same, but at fisher investments we're clearly different. (other money manager) different how? you sell high commission investment products, right? (fisher investments) nope. fisher avoids them. (other money manager) well, you must earn commissions on trades. (fisher investments) never at fisher investments. (other money manager) ok, then you probably sneak in some hidden and layered fees. (fisher investments) no. we structure our fees so we do better when clients do better. that might be why most of our clients come from other money managers. at fisher investments, we're clearly different.
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now criminals flock to san francisco because there are no consequences. we can't wait. recall chesa boudin now. nationalism and divisiveness, seldom do we see unity across the globe, but despite the complicated economic, some political obstacles, in bribery, the founder of the erasure groups and jews over media, says not to give up on internal collaboration. that is a message in his new book, the power crisis, have three threats and our response will change the world. this came out this past week. it is already a bestseller. and it endeavor tackles but he says, when he sees as the three key geopolitical crisis that we face globally. the climate crisis, global health emergencies like pandemics, and the rapid evolution of technology and artificial intelligence. whoever writes in the book,
quote, we don't have to like each other munchel us agree on a single set of political and economic values. we don't need everyone to work together. we don't need to solve every problem. we certainly don't need a single world government to save us from chaos. but never has been more obvious that citizens of all countries had better cooperate, at least where near universal benefit towards schools we can't achieve alone is concerned. grammar who measures and advisers and geopolitical risk offer solutions for ways forward in a century that is going to look very different from those we have previously known. a century that will require more flexible and creative thinking from world leaders, and most importantly, it functional u.s. china relationship. joining me now is the aforementioned ian braver, author of the power crisis, and present stunt and founder of the erasure group. good to see you, my friend. you are often a guest on this show, and a commentator on major national affairs, but every now and then this happens. you have a new book and it introduces new ideas to the world. and this seems uniquely
powerful. in its discussion about collaboration. we are in a world where, whether disciplined, mike whether it is what it is not dispenser about with climate, whether it is the war in the ukraine, or technological challenges, we are going to do this better together than we are alone. this can be every nation for themselves. >> these crises are obviously global, and they come at a time that the united states is incredibly politically divided, and also at a time the united states and china, the most important geopolitical relationship in the world is completely devoid of trust. and so, rather than say, that means we can't respond, this is saying well how are we responding? because it is a target rich environment in terms of crises, and those crises insults are providing opportunities for people to together. i mean, putin certainly thought that nato was obsolete and brain dead, as trump and macron said. he certainly thought that biden was weak, marco is, gone and got going his own way that he could do this ukraine invasion
and get away with. that it turned out that crisis motivated and extraordinary unity of response. not just in nato, but you are watching pelosi for example in the mcconnell. take the trips to kyiv, and say the exact same thing one week after the. other turns out it is not just russia invaded ukraine that is driving that, it is a lot of other crises. >> so you know the world could emerge into this world of rule of biters who are part of nato and may yet expand further, and part of the united nations, and who don't buy oil from rogue states that do bad things. and then this other group that does buy all that extra oil. we know that india continues to buy russian oil, china needs the energy, and china is helping finance the growth of much of the developing world. we could end up in this bipolar world where maybe the u.s. is on one side and china is on the other side and everybody lined up under them. how do we avoid that? you talk about cooperation between u.s. and china, we have we got a ton of it right now. it is all. trade >> where we don't have any trust, and we don't have a
lot of sit down let's coordinate responses, but we actually have a lot of alignment between the united states and china. and in some ways that is more important. i mean, the chinese for decades now have been investing a lot in solar and wind and advanced new killer, and in electric batteries, and supply chain for rare earths. and the americans ignored for a while, and now they are realizing, you know what if we don't give the program, they are gonna dominate all of these technologies. so we better do it too. it is competition, but it is virtuous competition. another example, russia ukraine, we warned the chinese, if you actually break these sanctions, and he supports the russians militarily. you remember, it was jake sullivan's eight-hour meeting in rome with his counterpart in china. we are going to sanction you hard, there will be consequences. china hasn't liked it, but they haven't been breaking american sanctions. why not? because it turns out they are much more aligned with keeping doing business with the united states and europe, then they are with the russian economy that is one tenth of the united
states. >> you think the uss way to china because of? that because there is a gradualism that the u.s. has no leverage, versus china, because we are so beholden to buying their stuff and inflation is where it is, we can't afford our phones are electronics. >> what you just said is completely true, but there are also so beholden on selling that's up to united states. so we have this incredible interdependence between the u.s. and china, that is not just about the economy and selling and buying stuff, but it is also about responding to a pandemic. it is also about living in the same world that has 1.2 degrees centigrade of warning, and that is gonna keep going. and that is an uncomfortable place to be, because it's not like there is love in our marriage between the u.s. and china, but it is like we are living in the same house and we both love the kids. right. and what do you do in that environment? well, you cannot deal with. that and so, i am not suggesting that we are about to have a kumbaya moment with the chinese, nor might suggest and democrats republicans are gonna start like each other in the u.s., i'm saying that despite the fact that those things will
not plausibly happen in the next decade, that we will still see much more international collaboration than most of the hair and fire analyst are expecting. >> we talk a lot about books on the show, we like books on the show. but once in a while there is a book that i just recommend the viewers read because it in however many pages the says, fewer than 250 pages, you get a good view of where we are right now in the world. thank you my friend. i was. appreciate >> it thank. you >> embarrass the president and founder of the erasure group, the host of ge zero world and the author of the power crisis, how through threats and our responses will change the. world don't go anywhere, straight ahead the scoop on how the pennsylvania primary elections could spell doom for democracy in america. another hour of velshi begins right now. ur of velshi begin right now. it's