tv Velshi MSNBC May 21, 2022 6:00am-7:00am PDT
see much more international collaboration than most of the hair and fire analyst are expecting. >> we talk a lot about books on the show, we like books on the show. but once in a while there is a book that i just recommend the viewers read because it in however many pages the says, fewer than 250 pages, you get a good view of where we are right now in the world. thank you my friend. i was. appreciate >> it thank. you >> embarrass the president and founder of the erasure group, the host of ge zero world and the author of the power crisis, how through threats and our responses will change the. world don't go anywhere, straight ahead the scoop on how the pennsylvania primary elections could spell doom for democracy in america. another hour of velshi begins right now. ur of velshi begin right now. it's probably why certain
lawyer is trying to block the january six committee to block a key piece of information that would tie the ex president directly to the efforts to overthrow the 2020 election. you may remember that john eastman was the attorney that orchestrated the failed former presidents last-ditch effort to overturn the legitimate election lost. he drafted memos that laid out a xiaojie for vice president mike pence to unlawfully strew swing the election results and donald trump's favor. with a late court filing, eastman urged a judge to maintain the confidentiality of his work for the ex president. he may have given us the clearest insight yet into the flurry of miscommunication, or the flurry of communication, between the former president, the top aides, and the campaign lawyers. political reports quote that the filing also describes the direct role of trump himself in developing strategy, detailing two-handed written notes from the former president about information that he thought might be useful for the
anticipated litigation. these notes are among the documents that eastman is seeking to shield via attorney client privilege, and quote. we are going to wait to see how well the argument holds. up it is increasingly apparent that the former president's big lie is his inability to accept the reality of his election lost. now, the republican party has aligned itself with the big lie that it would rather perpetuate the lie than analyze the reasons behind their electoral failures. if you can believe it, there was a time when the republicans actually took that sort of think theory seriously. it was not that long ago. let's go back to 2012. the current utah senator, mitt romney, had just lost the election to then president barack obama. and response, the republican national community issued a 100-page postmortem examining what went wrong in the election. it included a slew of recommendations of how the gop can become more inclusive, a
factor that it believes contributed to romney's defeat. for example, quote, if we want ethnic minority voters to support republicans we need to engage them. we need to show sincerity. and quote. >> the republican party needs to stop talking to itself. we have become expert in how to become providing ideological to like-minded people. we have lost the ability to be persuasive or welcoming to those who do not agree with us on every issue, and quote. recommendations in the report it seem to have not been acted upon. joining me now is steve bannon who is the editor of the maddow blog and the new york times bestseller author of the book the impostures, how they quit governing and seized american politics. it is a book relevant to this conversation. steven, good to see you. thank you for being with us. there is a -- the republican soggier other ways in 2012. it was a good postmortem.
it made a lot of sense. it was not even a big u-turn. that's to love it more of the good stuff. what happened between 2012 and 2022? >> quite a bit. they played a big role to get the party off track. after 2012 they notice the document at the put together. don trump came together and said we do not need to do any of those things. we do not need to worry about outreach to minority groups. we do not have to worry about the law. we do not have to worry about the communicating to broader audiences. we should reinforce the base. play to ask extremists and welcome radicals into the party. while this is a terrible time for a risk. this is up until he won. -- they said maybe donald trump is right. move the autopsy from 2012 is wrong. you continue to feed into this trumpism and radicalism.
that is the party's trajectory ever since. >> i'm trying to figure out because it seems ridiculous to me that this is what they would be doing, because i am one of those people who believe that there should be a strong republican party in america, but on a weekly basis, with primaries and results, there is no clear answer. is this working for the republican party? put aside whether it is good for the country, is it working or not working? the primary results this week are a mixed bag. >> they are a mixed bag. at the end of the trump era, it seems that they had the house. they are majority in the senate. it is tempting to think that at that point, they tried the experiment, they try to trumpism, it failed. democrats have power. now we need to change direction. that is not what alternately happened. republicans continue to believe the lie. they continue to nominate radical candidates for state offices in 2022 looking to 2024. it is more of the same. it seems like they are doubling
and tripling down on this radical approach, despite the fact that trump failed spectacularly and democrats now have power. >> i want to show you a map of election deniers who are running for governor. in different states, it means different things. in all the states that donald trump was trying to overcome the election results after the election, the governor did not go along with it. now we have -- look at all the states where there are election deniers running for governor. in some states it will not matter. the republican candidate will win. in some they are swing states. mrs. michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania, these are all up there. how do you think this plays out? there is no guardrail in place to stop what happened the last election from happening this election. you have people who might be in office who can participate in the overturning of the election. >> i want viewers to keep in mind that we are dealing with two elements to this. the first is the fact that the
secretaries of state can do enormous damage before election day when it comes to things like voter rolls, various between voters and the ballot box. i want you to think about what happens after election day. like mastriano in pennsylvania and others, they are looking at the political plan in which they are going to deny the certification that they do not like. that combination of before election day and after election day per the unique risk to democracy. -- the greater the threat will be for all of us. >> as it relates to statewide election, it is different for every state, but as the governor mary matter more than the secretary of state? -- >> it varies on a state to state bases. in pennsylvania, for example, the secretary of state is not an elected position. but he would be in a position to choose his own like-minded secretary.
state in other states it would be different. a very state by state. nevertheless, the combination of the governor and the secretary of state in every state is going to be playing an integral role in the administration. whether or not voters are allowed to participate or whether the votes are counted after the election. >> steve bennett, it is good to have you here, i appreciate it. i know you are willing to do it but i do hesitate. i know that you are prolific and right so much. you can find it on the maddow blog. i like to take you on your day off. thank you for being with us this morning. [interpreter] -- >> good to see you. >> he is the producer of the rachel maddow show and he is the author of this important book, the impostors, how the americans seized american politics. joining me is the former chairman of the political national party serving from 2009 through 2011. he knows what we speak of here. he is a former lieutenant governor of maryland and of -- and an msnbc political analysts. he is my friend. on the scene you hear.
thank you for being with us. i want your take on this. i am trying to figure out, have republicans realize that they should have been looking at the plan from 2012 and get back on track to get people to vote for us and win elections the right way, or are they getting motivated and charged up by mass triana and people like that. >> the juice is certainly with mastriano and that swing of the party, if you will. they create the type of energy not just around these candidates but magnifying the energy front that comes from trump. when he is out there, he does the rallies, he draws a lot of people out. it is having a downward pressure on the base of the party. this is on the infrastructure of the party, where you have party organizations that are largely being run by mob heads. you have inside the rcep, a good third or more are oh for
trump. the autopsy of 2012 is just paper. as i like to say, donald trump came down the escalator and not just walked all over the autopsy but shredded page by page with every word of his announcement. i was telling, more than anything else, was not that trump did it. it is that the rest in the party did nothing about it. you spent 1 million dollars to go up and do this so introspective thing, which by the way, we executed that without spending 1 million dollars. i did not need a plan to tell me about that paper wrote. i do not need a plan. i was a county chairman. i was a state chairman. i knew exactly. i was in accounting of 100,000
people with only 50,000 republicans and we were winning at the ballot box. this initiatives around taxes entered schools was a thing. spending all this money, i am like, okay, you thank you to do. it we already have the platform. they put the infrastructure in place in 2009 and 2010. they've ripped all of that out. they got their hands handed to them in 2012. they sat down and said we are going to write about it like some sort of cathartic group session. cathartic group session. trump comes along and basically splits all over it. they do not think about it. you saw this from the very beginning. it is not just a lack of interest in it, but a lack of belief that were written on the page because they did not defend them. >> there are people out there who are acting in good faith and would like, what's sink looks like a traditional public
policies, like charter, schools taxes, a regulations, or book wages are going up,. how do we protect our small businesses in this environment? >> we cannot, as journalist, evaluate republican candidates and democratic candidates. we have to be able to see this is a good faith camp that believes in democracy. this one subscribes to ideas that are anti-democratic. that is a net loss for regular conservative people in that country. you said many times that is not getting fixed by the republican party. stop turning that they will see the light. >> that is such an important point. at the end of the day, the policies and the big pronouncing or the motion energy it yeah -- does not mean anything if you don't fundamentally believe in the infrastructure of our government. this means voting, right to free speech, a right to free
assembly, right to association. all of these elements that are constitutionally guaranteed matter. we are in a very interesting spot. here are my questions for the country. i get the frustration and the anger over gas prices, inflation, concerns, worries, and the important things that hit close to home. but then, you have to look like you are going to the ballot box in november, folks. you have to weigh in on the context of their daily lives. when you value more? . ? your plea price of gas or your democracy? their freedom of speech and the freedom to vote or your democracy? what you have to consider is giving power back to a party and people who are telling you, when you get the power back, not only are we not going to tell you what to do with it but we are going to indicate to you some ideas of what that is going to be like. we are talking hearings, a
retribution, impeachment of joe biden, trying to re-litigate the 2020 election. you have people right now who are arguing to impeach biden well you have vice president harris. >> we will impeach biden and reinstalled trump to reassert both of them. this is where some of these folks are going. you have to wait yeah. >> i'm not sure that is clear to you or share everybody. i am sympathetic for people who would. they want to vote for someone has a share in the same democracy with them. but trump is just out of all of there. you're going to be on tomorrow morning. go take a nap, or something. my friend is going to be on his
show tomorrow. he will be hosting. he will fill in for key part on msnbc. we will see you then, by the. thank you. it has been a taliban slum republicans that the cable host and the terrorist responsible for the massacre that occurred in buffalo new york. we are going to take a deep into the most controversial call and white supremacy which is the white white replacement theory. the war in ukraine has the while she on its heels. we are within a cloying coined stunts. more velshi in just a moment. velshi in just a moment find a new way. but birthdays still happen. fridays still call for s'mores. you have to make magic, and you're figuring out how to do that. what you don't have to figure out is where to shop. because while you're getting creative, walmart is doing what we always do. keeping prices low for you every day. so you can save money and live better. ♪
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recall chesa boudin now. scrutiny while they investigate hunter biden and whether he broke federal tax law. now, a representative for biden tells nbc news that his bill from the irs, about two billion dollars, has been paid off. two people familiar with the matter say that the money was arranged by the young in biden attorney, kevin morris, a brokering a deal for the south
park tv show. >> just paying the tax bill wash away any liability that hunter biden may have? >> paying the tax bill, if that is what he did, does not undo the crime. it would be returning money to a bank that you robbed, you still robbed the bank. >> the president son and his company brought in an $11 million between 2013 and 2018, including years in which his father was vice president working as an attorney. -- for members of a gas company accused him of a bribing aide investigator. -- according to msnbc analysis of his hard drive an icloud account, as well as documents released by the senate committee. during the campaign, joe biden denied his son profited off of a china connection. >> my son has not made money in terms of this thing about what you are talking about in china. >> hunter biden's company received $5 million in consulting contracts from that joint venture funded by a
chinese company. a snapchat of his spending says that for five months in late 2017 and early 2018, he spent $200,000 a month on things like luxury hotel rooms, cash withdrawals, dental work, and payments on a porch, according to documents on the hard drive. hundred biden has acknowledged that he struggled with drug addiction. >> it appears to be you for the president and hunter biden, whether they will be charges as a result of this federal criminal investigation. his laptop as a subject of controversy after documents recovered from it were brought to light by the biden's political opponents. cybersecurity experts at one point in 2020, suggested that the hallmarks of disinformation campaign. since then, news organizations have authenticated many emails on the laptop and msnbc news obtained a copy of the hard drive from giuliani. the president has defended his son. i am confident. >> hunter biden has denied any
legal business dealings. i am cooperating completely. i am absolutely certain that at the end of the investigation that i will be cleared of any wrongdoing. found members of a president who hold a no job in the administration are not bound by any ethics rules. hunter biden seems a lot like his primary profession is being joe biden's son. unless there is a direct connection to joe biden, this is more of a criticism of one private citizen rather than a government official or administration. thank you to my colleague washington corresponded hallie jackson for that report. no one would blame you if you are feeling worried about your investments after this tumultuous few a weeks in the markets. there was a lot of red on the screen this week. we did see some good news in the economy. we will show that with you after the break. after the break.
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everything. they may have peaked. if you look at inflation expectations over the next few years, there are about 6%. this is slightly good news. yourself to look at wage growth. we have had a wage growth in the u.s. economy for the first time in decades. about 5%. that is good for workers. workers have had the upper hand in a lot of ways. companies cannot get enough workers. at least there has been a wage growth. you have to look at the unemployment rate at 6.3%. that is a healthy unemployment rate. again, there are a lot of jobs out there that are not filled. these are three good signs that the u.s. economy is going well right now. when we look at some of the bad signs in the economy, it is sky-high with the inflation. the expectations are that is going to stay above 6% over the next 12 months and come to a 4%. when you see all that is affecting people, u.s. households are spending $5,000 a year on gasoline. that is up from 2800 for last year. that was cheaper last year. that extra 20 $200 a year, that is a big deal for a lot of americans. not everyone is talking about a recession. there is a drumbeat around a recession.
there is a 50% chance that we go into a regional recession. that is an economic decline across a variety of factors. several corners could've lost longer. that is a bad sign of things. when you look at the ugly, ali, there are some things that are very tough for people. waitresses are not keeping up with inflation, we know that. this is affecting the capital markets. not everyone is invested in the stock market. 54% of americans are passively aggressive. they have the wife of flecked. the stark market is doing well, we feel better about the economy, we spend more. we know that these raging inflation have hit home -- 42 million american families are food insecure right now. there was a worker of boom. the government spent trillions of dollars in spending. we have had a massive shift. we are dealing with the other side of that. >> the problem is the fed, the government, trying to avoid a
regression -- this is a great equalizer. so is inflation. it hits it from people much harder than low-income people. they're trying to raise interest rates to fight off inflation. it always works. it is not exact. it is not a science. it is an art. you cannot overstep and create a recession. is there any science into how they can do this, how to and hold inflation in check or try, to bring it down without showing us into a recession. this is the fear they are having right now. as the rage's interest rates and borrowing costs for businesses, they are risking to put the economy into a deep freeze. if rates go too high, we are going to pull back on spending, pullback on borrowing. this is not just for consumers but for businesses. this means less hiring, less expansion, and this guy took the economy into a recession or a downturn. there is no science. it is just a history of what happens. there was inflation in the 70s, 80s. it cool the economy quite a bit
but it took a while to get up that upslope upslope. caleb silver is the editor in chief at invested pita. he is the guy turned to to help me explain economics. as i mentioned, joe biden is in the middle of an overseas trip to asia as president. earlier this morning, he touched down in south korea. he was greeted by the president. they held a bilateral meeting a joint press conference and participated in what would be my favorite part, a state dinner. they deliver the ball? coast -- toes. what caught my eye is the tasty lovely menu. the highlights included and amuse-bouche. other dishes were pine mushroom porridge water kimchi, dumplings wrapped in cabbage, before ups and sauteed vegetables, bib bop and tofu ball soup. that is the scoop. meets power? you try crazy things... ...because you're crazy...
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excited for tomorrow's meeting of the velshi banned book club. this week we are studying the widely celebrated and banned author, tommy morrison. and his discussion with amani perry and dr. eddie glug junior, there is no overstating the profound impact that tony morrison has had on not just american literature but american society. many of the latest authors books have faced calls for removal from libraries and bookshelves, but none have been so targeted as the love it. the pulitzer prize-winning book
and feature film and opera adaptation examines the painful and destructive legacy of slavery in america through the lens of a black woman named seth and her family. it is loosely based on a true story. everyone remembers the first time that they read beloved or any of tony morrison's modern classics. i do. there is power in her words and residents in her story. just ask one of the velshi band block club members who wrote to us saying quote, tony morrison 's writings expressed a deep rooted emotions and cultural experiences on the page. i briefed her words and found solace in him. we want to know about the first time that you opened up the copy of a 20 morrison book. emailed the questions. let us know some of your thoughts or reactions to my story at velshi.com. thank you to those who have already done so. the same white supremacist conspiracy theory publicized by the buffalo massacre last weekend has been doubted by
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they're great replacement theory, or replacement theory, for many americans, it was an unfamiliar phrase until last saturday when a white teenager carried out a racially charged shooting in buffalo new york. ten people were killed in the attack. it is hardly a new conspiracy. it is hardly the first time that it has been cited as a justification for a terrace attack. replacement theory is a racial concept. it is a racist concept built upon the hateful premise that the white population in the united states and other western nations, are being replaced by people of color and certain ethnic groups. they are destroying western civilization. in once you see theory, and to a universe -- thing to 20,017 when they just
descended upon virginia for the night rally. remember the model? they were chanting jews will not replace us. and another version of replacement theory, it is a political party agenda to lift multiculturalism and seized power from white. it is xenophobia that has been trafficked in by right wing figures for years. it has grown more explicit and more ubiquitous lately, especially on fox news. a recent investigation by the new york times found that more than 400 episodes of this show of the cable network top rated show, mr. carlson, and by the notion that democratic politics and other elites want to force demographic changes through immigration. the roots of replacement theory can actually be track too early 20th century in french nationalism. a group in popularity among wipes supremacists around the world. when the idea was provide revived in a 2011 agency published the great replacement, it gave rise to the anti
immigrant movements in europe. domestic your is set up bombs in oslo, norway, then went on a shooting rampage. they killed 77 people. he said that the recent inform was of muslim immigrants in europe which would lead to an invasion. he said, quote, it would be cultural suicide, and quote. replacement dairy has been invoked by many other domestic terrorist attacks in the decades since then. they target all known white communities. in the manifesto, the buffalo sciutto if it's an attack at a pair of mosque in new zealand in 2019 that killed 51 people. the man that carried out that attack also wrote a manifesto, also titled, the great replacement. and 2018, 11 jewish congregants were killed at the tree of life synagogue in pittsburgh, by men who frequently posted antisemitic content on social media. the following here, a 21-year-old meir men drove 21
hours to el paso, texas, in mexico, he shot and killed 23 people. it's when the deadly the tax on latinos in america. he was motivated to carry out the attack because of, quote, the hispanic invasion of texas. joining me to talk about this is carey greenberg, director of national security at the university. she is the author of settled tools, the dismantling of american just rock rossi on the war of terror to donald trump. also joining me is the fellow at the swat center and the researcher for the group. he is also a programmer on national security at the foreign policy research institute. good morning. thank you for being with us. let's talk about the replacement theory and other conspiracy theories. they are often extreme and they are hateful extensions about anxiety that is going on in society. what is really going on? how do you get to the bottom of things like replacement theory and address or combat them? it is hard to be empathetic
with people who hold these views. it is pervasive enough that we have to figure out how to get out at it. >> thank you so much for doing this topic on ar. this is a beautiful overview over the history and creating context for this. in terms of what to do about it, the first thing you need to understand is how pervasive and long-standing has this been? this is not just in western discourse but in american discourse. let's remember, hitler based and thanked individuals in the united states to write some of the first treaties in the united states. it is very powerful. it is low hanging fruit for a long time for those who want to exploited. martins irking refer to this as well. he says this is something that is just bringing out in six days after the race. this is to make sure that we get some new guys. when you think about undermining, it it is not
directed ahead on. this helps. this is with public discussions, a discourse. would you really need to do is look at a deeper motivation. this is something that we look at in terrorism, where there is international terrorism and domestic terrorism. what is really driving people to want to embrace hay as a way of making themselves have identity. they make themselves have a voice. you want to make them feel like they have a difference in the world based on this. that is a difficult problem. they say the way that social services not that we have in the united states, the economic crisis, the sense of all these identities and who gets to belong and who doesn't. -- we have not just this well and we need to. this is where we are today. >> colin, the weird part is from an economic imperative, immigration is a good, thing migration is a good thing. immigration and the changing dynamics of western day nations
are cited often in replacement theory or other such theories. it was domestic terrorism. colin, talk to me about how it arises in the east and says in the -- wee seat over issues. then it becomes conspiracy theories. then we give rise to violence. what do we do about? that people have their views on immigration's. you do not get to translate this into a murderous ideology. >> no, you do not. this is the impact of disinformation, which is rampant. this is the impact of what is largely in the dark corners of the internet and the fringes of the virtual world. it moves into the mainstream and it's piped into millions of viewers on a regular basis. then we set around and act surprise when someone acts on these views. a lot of the things that were being pushed by the buffalo shooter, we saw these same misinformation used by dylan
roof. we saw the same things used by the pittsburgh shooter. the neighbor i was living in at the time, when this effect happened. the sand paso, the sad part is in the united states, we talk about all of these issues but we do not talk about the common denominator. this is access to weaponry. coming out of the pandemic where people have spent significant amount of time online, it has been marinating. disinformation and violent racist rhetoric is unfortunately the outcome. we are going to see more of this, i think. >> these are both issues. the rhetoric and the access to weaponry. karen, the guy governing to do something about it. this week, the justice department revealed new initiatives to fight hate crimes. they passed a domestic terrorism bill. this is almost at the party line vote. all but one revote revolted against it. there is reluctance in america among conservative politicians to address this issue, even with all of this renewed scrutiny.
how do we do it? it's a legislative fix to this? this has been a debate for the last of 5 to 7 years. just to know that what was passed this week, it was a prevention act that was more about establishing offices and paying attention to the executive than a domestic terrorism bill that criminalized the domestic terrorism. this is a step forward. one thing to note about this bill that is very important is that unlike prior reiterations of this bill, it has identified white supremacist adds the problem. it seems the repeatedly throughout this few-page bill. it is an important thing to note. it is not a whole range of terrorism from right to left to islamic, domestic. in the sight of this ad, it is white supremacism.
it is named over and over again. will this make headway? yes. to dr. cohen's point, taking away guns, controlling assault weapons, controlling the sale of weapons, it's just as important as any preventive legislation. >> i will ask both of you to stick around why we pay the bills. karen greenberg and colin clark. we will talk right after this break. break. (young woman) i wonder who gave me the idea? (avo) love. it's what makes subaru, subaru. 20 years of progress for women
in afghanistan is being a race, to the surprise of absolutely no. and women's rights in afghanistan are being rolled back, roughly nine months after the taliban took back control the government following americas military withdrawal from that country. in march the taliban were back in its promise to continue to allow girls to attend school. afghan women have also been prevented from flying, or traveling find their own. they must be accompanied by a male chaperone if they want to go more than 45 miles away from home. in recent weeks, the country's ministry for the prevention of ice and promotion of virtue, implemented the rules for the restricting the liberties of women and girls. women are once again required to wear face fills in public. even female tv presenters. when asked recently about women who feel leaving the house, because of these new restrictions, a top taliban leader quipped, quote we keep naughty women at home. back with me now are karen greenberg, director of the four university center a national security, and calling carp
senior fellow of this ivan fellow and director of research for this on. group i mean karen, it's laughable except it's. not it's actually got very serious consequences for women. like i, said nobody is surprised by any of this. it is actually going to get worse for women in afghanistan. but what are we supposed to do about this? because afghan people are suffering, we have got western ngos, there's pressure on governments in the west to try to help these poor afghan people who are suffering under terrible shower government. what do we do about? this >> this is a very good question, a very hard-line. i mean the obvious thing to do is to counter the taliban's determination for, to get recognition, and to get humanitarian aid, and to unfreeze sanctions. and to leverage that for a addressing the treatment of women. how far that will go, we don't know. one of the unfortunate things you mentioned, ngos is that there's been a lot of energy put into providing scholarships for women to travel abroad, and studying abroad. and using american universe
he's actually to take each afghans, including women, remotely. whether or not these can continue in the current context, is really a problem. that would be one of the ways. and it is not just the u.s., it is the international community. the security council met this week to talk about it. it was a close session, so we really don't know what happened. but the best effort is to continue with using this as leverage which sanctions. but i also do you think that getting muslim leaders around the world to speak out against this, could be very important and impactful as the taliban tries to make its presence more solidified worldwide. >> that's an interesting point you make, colin the taliban is a backward organization, but in one way they are less backward than they used to be. and that is that they have relationships with other countries. some of them are muslim countries, and one of them is china. and nobody with any pressure on them, or significant pressure to change. i used to be a world in which if the u.s. had tools to employ against the taliban, they might
be effective. but i think was within days of the taliban taking over, china was there saying what do you need? >> ali, unfortunately this is what it looks like when you lose a war. the united states lost this war. the evacuation, as you documented well last august, was half hazard and disasters. and so, we are left with little leverage. and we have got some limited financial leverage, but if you look at who is running the country there, you're talking about members of the -- network that have multimillionaire bounties other. head how you move forward and heal the country that is led by people that you have, that is the case? nobody in the u.s. government has been able to explain that to me. so i think, if we are relying on the chinese, we are probably in worship than we thought. but you are right, it is going to be a bunch of regional actors. the iranian, the pakistanis, and others in central asia that are probably gonna come to the table and have more influence on the taliban we. we'll >> but karen, front of the problem here is that this is gone off the front burner, right? there is a moment we are all being attention all, this and
now it is topic number 63. >> yeah, there is no question about. it and you know the ukraine war, has very much distracted everybody's attention. in many areas, including how to deal with refugees and who'd open our doors to. so that is one thing. i think the other thing to point out is that, although women expanded their possibilities for jobs, for health care, education, in these 20 years, they still had a long ways to go. and so, it is so important that we began to reach out in any way that we can to try to keep that communication with afghan women. >> colin, do you think that there is an active discussion in the u.s. government about doing anything about this, are we just watching this thing unfold? because public support, the public doesn't support really much u.s. involvement in afghanistan right now. >> yeah, i think in certain pockets of the u.s. government, i'm sure this conversation is going on, because they're really dedicated public servants like care about this
issue. there are people that spent time in afghanistan, and this means a lot. and it should. to leave afghanistan and have the reversal of women's rights be the legacy of our withdrawal, i think is utterly shameful. and i hope that this issue gets pushed up to the top the agenda. as we mentioned, as karen mentioned, as some of your earlier gas and rubber and others, there's a lot of competing priorities. when you look around the world, from ukraine, to food security, to climate change. >> thanks to both of you for your great analysis, karen greenberg form university center national security. director and author of, subtle tools, the dismantling of american democracy from the war on terror to donald trump. colin clark is a senior research fellow at the sudan center and the author of after the caliphate. and that is it for me, thank you for. watching i'm back to more whatever made 10 am eastern. i'm gonna try to buy the gluten-free bagel, but you should not go anywhere. because coming up next, my friend katie fan is filling in for tiffany cross on the cross connection, and it begins right now. begins righ now.
♪ ♪ ♪ good morning and welcome to the cross connection. i am katie fang filling in for tiffany cross the saturday morning. it has been a busy week. here's the latest. two sources familiar with the matter tell nbc news that rudy giuliani testified virtually before the january 6th committee yesterday for approximately nine hours. the former new york mayor oversaw a court to overturn the oh trying 20 reelection results. he is far from his efforts. emails obtained from the washington post revealed that the wife of clarence thomas's sent emails to pressure arizona lawmakers to set aside the 2020 victory in an attempt to overturn the results. urging them to quote actually take action to ensure that a clean