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tv   The Rachel Maddow Show  MSNBC  May 23, 2022 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT

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breakfast table tomorrow. congresswoman liz cheney, offering some much-needed truth, during a time of so many dangerous lies. plainspoken honesty taking us off the air tonight. and on that note, i wish you all a very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late with us. i will see you at the end of tomorrow. tomorrow and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. the consequential primaries, of course, happening tomorrow in georgia, and in a handful of other states. we're gonna be talking about those primary elections tomorrow, over the course of this hour. there is a number of those primaries tomorrow in which there is a lot of suspense about the outcome, the polling 's close, nobody knows how it's gonna turn out. i will tell you, though, also, there is one race tomorrow, a high profile weighs about almost no suspense, it's quite clear exactly how it's gonna turn out and who's gonna win.
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but even so, that one, to my line, is actually the most astonishing of all the races in all of the states that are holding elections tomorrow. it is basically a shoe in for this guy, and that is amazing. so, you've got that story, and that coverage coming up this hour. we're also gonna get some expert help this hour as well, on the potential impact, potential consequences, of a very unexpected high-profile resignation from a russian diplomat today. today, he not only resigned from the russian government, he put them on blast over putin's invasion of ukraine, and putin's corruption, and what putin has done to russia. one of the consequences of that, in terms of public morale, and the sort of guys of public morale in russia, and potentially, one of the consequences for that guy who resigned today. so, that expert help on that, and we got a bunch of news to get into tonight. but when i start with something that is taking us more than a year to figure out.
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it was last year, last january, one week after the january 6th attack on the u.s. capitol. a member of congress came forward that day, with a hair curling allegation about other members of congress. and, forgive me for saying this right now, but i think you know what i mean. this was not like a usual suspect who brought forward this allegation. it was not a, you know, particularly, you know, what's the word to describe it, unavoidable for members of congress. this is not a member of congress that you see all over television, and his known for making hyperbolic claims, or sometimes just does things just to get on television. in fact, this allegation came from a member of congress, who doesn't much like going on tv at all. this is a member of congress who did a decade on active duty in the united states navy, flying seeking helicopters, and missions all over the middle
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east into europe. the navy, in, fact trusted her enough, they put her in charge of overseeing the relationship between the navy of the united states and the navy of russia. she is and if elected me graduate. she has a law degree from georgetown university. and she's a very serious person. >> and she came here on this show, exactly one week after the attack on the capital. and she made a very serious claim here. she said that on january 5th, the eve of the attack, she had seen groups being given tours of the inside of the capital complex by members of congress. now, the reason that is unnerving is because when the mob reached the capitol and broke in the following day on january six, it was an uncanny sense among a lot of members of congress that this moffatt by rights, sort of should've been lost, and not knowing where to go, because the capitol complex is very getting confusing in place. they seemed oddly oriented. it seemed like they knew where they going.
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what seemed even more worrying about it was that on january 5th, the day before the attack, there shouldn't have been any tours, of any kind, happening inside the capitol complex. this was a time when the capital was closed to the public, close to all tours. and, let's be honest, this was a day, january 5th, the day before trump had called for a wild protest of his supporters in washington. this was a day when this member of congress, and other members of congress, were bracing for potential violence. in d. c., around wild, rally that trump had planned for his supporters at the very next day. so, it was a little unnerving. what were members of congress doing, showing people around inside the capitol complex, just one day before the attack? >> i'm a former navy helicopter pilot. i served for almost ten years, and so, at every duty station, whether it was in bahrain, or any other place, and another place that was i would enter as america remember.
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we would receive -- and it's a pretty briefing, we called it the buck briefings that were out of place. what were the things that were on? and look at them and then i tore security. and so, somebody was loitering around my helicopter on the tarmac, that would be questionable to me, for example. and so, i write in the capital week of the six and i was very concerned about them, the violent crowds, the violent extremist groups the tour coming to the capital for the mobs on the sixth. called there by the president, and i told myself not to come in that day, to work remotely, not to be anywhere near the hill. and i was really shocked when i got into the house office building, and saw these groups inside. and which was so shocking is that, you know, i should mention, visitors aren't allowed in the capital complex. you know, since march, since the start of covid, that has been shut down.
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all tours are shut down. that was true in the last congress, and was reiterated on january 3rd in the new congress, that there would be no tours allowed, even tourists given by members. so, to see these groups around the capitol complex was really striking. it was so odd to see them, that my chief of staff called. the sergeant in arms to say what was going on? >> congress woman mikie sherrill of new jersey. she saying that her chief of staff, actually, called the house sergeant in arms, on january 5th, the day before the january 6th attack. to say, hey, what we are seeing here seems off. this stands out to us from a security perspective. this is something that shouldn't be happening at anytime right now, let alone the day before this big event is planned in washington. her chief of staff called house arms to raise the alarm and say, what's going on. and of course, the following day, the capital was attacked. and it was a week after the
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attack the congress when michael cheryl of new jersey made these claims public, and she made a request, it was a request in a form of electrical simon three members of congress. she requested that the sergeant in arms, the house of the senate, and the u.s. capitol police investigate this matter. she said, quote, we write today to request an immediate investigation into the suspicious behavior and access given to visitors to the capitol complex on tuesday january 5th, 2021, the day before the attacks on the capital. many of the members who signed this letter, including those of us who have served in the military are trying to recognize suspicious activity, as well as various members of our staff, we witnessed an extremely high number of outside groups in the complex on tuesday, january 5th. this is unusual for several reasons, including the fact that access to the capital complex has been restricted, since public tours and did last spring, due to the pandemic. the tour is being conducted on january 5th, where a noticeable and concerning departure from the procedures in place, as of spring of 2020, procedures that limited the number of visitors to the capital.
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the stories were so concerning that they were reported to the sergeant at arms on january 5th. the visitors encountered by some members of congress on this letter appeared to be associated with a rally at the white house the following day. members of the group that attacked the capitol seemed to have an unusually detailed knowledge of the layout of the capital conflicts. given the events of january 6th, the ties between these groups inside the capitol complex and the attacks on the capitol need to be investigated. it is important we feel safe in the halls of congress, we applaud the sergeant and arms and the u.s. capitol police for their efforts. but the fact remains that there were unusually large groups of people throughout the capital who could only have gained access to the capital complex, from a member of congress or a member of their staff. congresswoman mikie sherrill and 33 other members of congress signed that letter, asking for investigation. they asked a series of detailed questions that would in effect, help them investigate the circumstances to. it was very disconcerting, very disconcerting allegations. and that night, that letter was
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sent to the capitol police and the sergeant of arms. that night, one week after the attack, i asked congress woman mikie sherrill here, she knew who did it, if she know which members of congress might have led to his like this, might have effectively helped the attackers case the joint, to recognizance on the capitol complex. she told me, she wouldn't tell me which was. she wouldn't say publicly, but she would report what she knew to a formal investigation. >> do you know which members of congress, or which congressional staff members allowed these groups into the capital, and we're showing them around? i know that you haven't talked publicly about that yet, but do you, do you know that information? have you conveyed that information to, for example, the house sergeant at arms? >> as you know, we have asked, and other members, over 30 other members have asked for an investigation. that investigation has started, and it's now ongoing. so, i'm not talking about
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exactly the people that i saw that i will be conveying that to them. >> that investigation has started, and is now ongoing. again, that was last january. more than a year ago. this is a week after the capitol attack. and that makes this, you know more than a year now it we've been trying to get to the bottom of this story. as the congresswoman told us that night, more than a year ago, last january, investigation had been started into whether members of congress really did this, and if so, who, and if so, why? a few days after that she appeared on the show, house speaker nancy pelosi confirmed that in fact, the u.s. capitol police were investigating this matter. then, the following month, in february of last year, congressman tim ryan, oversight role for the capitol police. he told us here on this show that actually, federal prosecutors were reviewing the matter as well. the u.s. justice department was looking at this issue as well. but we still had no idea, which members of congress were potentially implicated, which members of congress might have done this?
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until all of a sudden, it got sort of easy to think you're out. because last spring, and into the summer, while those investigations were apparently underway, again, congresswoman cheryl, house speaker pelosi, congressman tim ryan, they all told us that investigations had begun at this matter. and while those investigations were underway, this guy kind of races his hand. republican congressman barry loudermilk. he emerged basically from nowhere, to release an out of the blue statement, saying he and other republicans had checked this out, they have looked at all the security footage from january 5th, and they wanted to ensure everyone that this whole allegation was bunk. there was no one who let any tour of the capitol building on january 5th, the day before the attack. the republicans later followed it up with a republican staffer, describing this supposed review in detail to the hail newspaper, telling the hill that the republicans watched every second of the security camera footage from inside the capitol complex on january 5th, telling the paper, quote, there were no tours, no large groups, no one with maga hats on.
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there's nothing in their remotely fitting the depiction in mikie sherrill's letter. congressman barry loudermilk went so far as to file a former ethics complaint against congresswoman mikie sherrill, claiming that she was the real criminal for having to demand the candid and member of congress had led a tour of the capitol complex on january 5th. how dare she suggest such a thing! she should be investigated for even suggesting it such a thing might have happened. congressman barry loudermilk i mean, one of the most amazing names in congress, by the way, right? barry loudermilk, yes. congressman loudermilk, why are you personally so jazzed up on this issue? why does this allegation that member of congress, or more than one member of congress let a tour of people on january 5th,
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in the capital complex the day before the attack? congressman loudermilk why does this allegation make you feel so defensive, and like you need to start threatening the person who made these allegations? nobody said anything about you connect you to this issue, why does it bother you so much? i mean, at this point, it's not like the most suspenseful thing in the world, right? the psychology here is very transparent. this is one like tiny embarrassing noise away from the famous principal known ass, he smelled it dealt it hypothesis. and so, yes, as you have no doubt, concluded, short of late last week, we got a word from the chat with this investigation, that in fact, it was congressman barry loudermilk, who investigators want to speak to now about a tour of the capital complex, that he, congressman loudermilk, personally lead on january 5th. you're kidding, right? the guy who said, definitely no one led a tour on january 5th, and anybody who says there was a tour on january 5th, they themselves should be investigated. it turns out, that's the guy who led the tour on january
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5th. crazy, who could've seen that coming! so, thursday, last week, was the day the ten six investigation said, hey, congressman loudermilk, we'd like to talk to you, because you've got a tour on january 5th. and in response, he released a new statement that contrary to his earlier denials, he now admits, he did lead a tour of the capitol complex on january 5th. he admitted that in prince on thursday. and then on friday, he released a video, saying that he's only been persecuted for giving that tour that he previously denied. his only being persecuted for it, because the people on the tour or wearing red baseball hats. >> generally the fifth i took a family with young children and their guests were visiting washington to lunch. and in a cafeteria, one of the house office buildings. so, what was so awful about this family that caused the committee to make false accusations about them?
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well, some were actually wearing red baseball caps. >> a family with young children and also their guests, it was the choice that you laid on the fifth. and they were wearing white caps, you said. first you said there were no tours given. and anybody who said there was a tour should be reported to the ethics committee and investigated. and the further details, if there was a tour, we still wasn't, definitely no one was on such a tour, wearing a red maga baseball cap. now, it turns out, that wasn't at least the tour led by him, in which he let all the people wearing the red caps. congressman barry loudermilk got caught out by the investigation on thursday. he kept it on that video on friday. and guess what happened on saturday? guess what happened next? you probably guessed this too. statement from donald j trump, quote, bury loudermilk has my complete and total endorsement. so, this very serious minded congresswoman came forward with this blood curdling allegation over a year ago. this particular congressman has
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not just been denying that allegation. he says that he's seen the proof that this definitely never happened. he's been mounting an attack on the congressman ever since, trying to get her in trouble for making this allegation. but now, it turns out it was him. at least it was him. it might have been him plus others, but at least him. he did it despite all his denials. he has been caught. you know what happens. joining us now is congressman mike cheryl, a democrat of new jersey animated veteran. congresswoman sherrill, thank you so much for being here tonight. i appreciate you making the time. >> thanks so much for having me, rachel. >> so, we did talk about this here over a year ago. a week after the attack on the capitol, and i asked you that night if you knew who the specific members of congress were, who had let these stories that you have described, and that you want it investigated.
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i have to ask you now, i have no idea if you will answer me, but i have to ask you, was congressman barry loudermilk one of the members of congress who you knew had done this? >> well, that's right, rachel. as we discussed about a year ago, i had seen those tours being given on january 5th. and then the next day, of course the capitol building was attacked. and i had planned at that time to get to the bottom of that, to determine who was responsible for this, which members of congress, to ensure that that person was held accountable. and we see now that the january six committee has done just that. they've investigated it and it appears from their letter, that they have evidence that representative loudermilk conducted this, although he himself admitted that and has confirmed the concerns that i had. so what's so chilling to me about this is it reminds me, really, of my time as a federal prosecutor, when you saw people trying to shut down investigations, or intimidate witnesses.
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and here, you have a member of congress who actually, now, new evidence has come out and reporting has come out, and he was an radio program on january the 6th, saying that he led a tour, and that some of the people on that tour went to the insurrection the next day. but by may, he was saying, not only that those stores took place, but then finding an ethics complaint, and wanting an investigation into what those stores were doing. so, let that sit with you women it. a member of congress filed an ethics complaint, lied and that ethics complaint about what he knew was going on on january 5th. and now, we see that video that you just showed, that in fact he was getting giving tours. so, that, jimmy, it's so incredibly chilling, really,
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about this process. that's why the work of the january 6th committee is so critically important, that they get to the bottom of what's lit up to the events on january 6th so we can ensure that that never, never happens again. >> do you believe that congressman loudermilk is thick stench of this? war there more members of congress who you believe were involved in this? is it limited to him, can you comment on that at all? >> well, i think that that is what we have called the january six committee to do. and certainly, we saw different things coming out in various circumstances in the senate about who may be involved. but really, i think that's what we're hoping the january six
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committee will tie together for us. and certainly from what we've seen so far, from the chairman, benny thompson, to the vice chair, liz cheney, this bipartisan committee has worked diligently to get to the truth. in order to make sure that they are working as hard as they can to ensure this never happens here in our country again. >> in terms of the, sort of investigative firepower that's been brought to bear here, this allegation that you first made, which has now been borne out by the january 6th investigation, more than a year later, it's sort of one of the most discreet, prove-able, simple, and yet terrifying allegations that surround the way things went down in the lead up to the attack, and during the attack itself. it makes me wonder how you feel or what you've been able to observe, you are never your level of confidence in the effort that has been put to clarify this, to investigate it. we have heard from speaker
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pelosi that u.s. capitol police was looking into this matter. we had it stated by congressman tim ryan, that this is something that federal prosecutors were looking at as the january six investigation has now publicly confirmed that they have investigated this. they have looked at the evidence, directly rogue accent comes to fix the dynastic we have from republican members of congress on this matter. are all of the investigation that have happened, all sort of orders that are rolling in the same direction, have there been, have there been different investigations working at cross purposes? how confident are you in the fact that this is all getting taken by the committee? >> right, so as a former federal prosecutor, i oversaw investigations like this. and certainly, as you alluded to, these are one of the best agencies working together sharing information, sharing what they found. and i think what we've seen thus far as the january six
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committee, despite a lot of adversity, to witnesses refusing to testify, including members of congress, they have certainly gotten an incredible amount of information about what led up to that, to that event. and i am very hopeful that people will continue to come forward with what they know because this was probably, for me, the darkest day in our nation's history, you know. as i was on the floor of the house, as i tell people this, a phone in one hand, and a gas mask in the other, i simply did not believe that we were being attacked because a president of the united states did not want to concede in our democratic election. and what he's enticing other americans to attack us as we work to certify the election. this is the heart of our democracy. we've all taken oath to the constitution. i can't even tell you how many times i've taken that oath as i sit here. for the first time, when i was 18 years old, i took it when i was promoted throughout the navy.
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i took it when i was at the u. s. attorney's office, and as a federal prosecutor. and i took it again when i entered into the house of representatives and at the beginning of the session. and i have committed to guard our constitution, to support and defend it from all enemies, and to bear true faith and allegiance to this thing. and every single member of congress has taken that oath, and every single member of congress now owes it to this country. so stop putting any of the personal ambition will, any of their self dealing with, you need to put that aside, and you need to remember your oath. and we need to get to the bottom of this. and we need to make sure that this democracy that we all love so dearly is so intact and for our children and grandchildren. that's what i'm committed to do. >> congresswoman mikie sherrill, democrat of new jersey, navy veteran thank you so much for your time tonight. thank you for coming back to shed light on this story. we continue to watch it as an unfolds, thank you.
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>> rachel, thank you for staying on this issue. as you can tell i think it's incredibly important. so, thanks, have a great night. >> thank you. all right stay with us, we'll be right back. rfect project manager isn't easy. but, at upwork, we found him. he's in adelaide between his color-coordinated sticky note collection and the cutest boxed lunch we have ever seen. and you can find him right now on upwork.com when the world is your workforce, finding the perfect project manager, designer, developer, or whomever you may need... tends to fall right into place. find top-rated talent who can start today on upwork.com power e*trade gives you an award-winning mobile app with powerful, easy-to-use tools, and interactive charts to give you an edge. 24/7 support when you need it the most. plus, zero-dollar commissions for online u.s. listed stocks. [ding] get e*trade from morgan stanley and start trading today. never settle with power e*trade. it has powerful, easy-to-use tools to help you find opportunities, 24/7 support when you need answers,
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yes on h. recall chesa boudin now. it works for russia admission in any well. they worked with russia's ministry. for two decades. he spent a large part of that time surving as a nuclear bomb pro flay shuns. today he quit, and in those
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quick quietly, he turned it off to 11. this is all he told his colleagues. for 20 years, i've seen different terms of our foreign policy, but never have been associated with montreal's on february 24th of this year. this aggressive or unleashed by putin across ukraine and the entire western world is not only a crime against ukrainian people, but also the most serious crime against the people of russia. those who can see this one only one thing, to remain in power forever. to live in pompous, tasteless palaces. the sale on yachts cumberland on edge and got interaction navy. and doing a limited power and complete impunity. to achieve that, they're light second faces may lives as it takes. thousands of russians and ukrainians have already died just for this. if he goes on to say, quote, i studied three other plummeted minutes of about 4:20 years. the pharmacies become my home and family, but i simply cannot
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any longer a share in this bloody needless ink nominating me. his name is boris. her statement to get direct shot at his boss, russia's longtime foreign minister. he says, that he, quote, one for professional educated intellectual home many of my colleagues held in high esteem, the person constantly but again asking flicking statements and threatens the world with nuclear weapons. and this was a nation is fascinating. that final point is very provocative. this guy who just good's highest provided like rosy nations in the social started the sway, he's a nuclear expert. after he quit, he told the new york times, he was decided by the nonchalance of the south relative allots chatted about possible nuclear strikes against the west. that is a thing that is increasingly happening on state controlled russian tv. he said about the, they think if you had some of the democratic their psyche, then
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they mckenzie will mediately gets care that run to big for mercy on their knees. that's how many people think, i feel of this is the line of their passing along to moscow. joining us to julia davies, she watches the russian media. i appreciate making them to be heard tonight. >> thank you rachel, is my pleasure. >> he raised this issue and has received a shun letter and that i follow venereal zinc running with a new york times saying that nonchalance and frequency of those obsession about using nuclear weapons, he finds it unnerving. and your mattering of russian television, if you're seeing buddy is describing? >> absolutely, and that's refreshing to have someone of an insider like hand to address said, because as redundant.
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every day they bring out the idea of nuclear strikes against ukraine, our gals though. alice nonstop chatter that is basically normalize at this point, if you get ever normalized everything. they've become like north korea. >> this isn't a constant, it's change to be more frequent? over this last three months? >> absolutely, they follow putin's lead when he said, if anyone dares to interfere and what's going on in ukraine, they will be left with such retaliatory actions that they have never contemplated or seen before. i don't state-o-vision, they repeatedly reiterating what he meant was a nuclear strike. they repeat that with a great sense of pride, that is one thing they know they west fears. so the like to convince the russians that even if they have to dive a lot around, there's no better way to go. >> from your monitoring of this propaganda, do you feel like that should make the west, us observing and a, laura fearful
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that they will use nuclear weapons? >> he should remain clear eyed about russia's capabilities. but keep in mind that they're saying it for us to be afraid. for the west to stop helping. so it's posturing, and we need to see it for what it is. is anything that they can find us with. there's not much they can do to us. that is one of another disposal that they like to saber-rattle would. it to make us hear them, that's what they're hoping to do, that should be the opposite of what we do. >> the government is yet to
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respond to this opposing nation. what do you expect there reaction to italy? you think the pretends that happen? >> i can't believe but they will do. they follow the same script it. they will seize a traitor. the granules offered a reward by the west, and he sold out. and this is how they'll petroleum. especially workers's letter was
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so scathing. he talked law many things. they will certainly try to claim that he is a traitor for exposing the corruption and not being willing to pull up of their war monger-ing and acts of aggression but they've engaged and. julia davis, is a columnist at the issue. she is the creator of russian media monitor. davis, thank you so much for making time to be with us. it's really helpful to have you here. >> thank you so much. >> all right, we've got much more ahead tonight, stay with us. , stay wit
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can you identify these three gentlemen? if you are the of a fun party is that identify these people, as often piety. you know when these guys are? yes, they are former u.s. treasury secretaries. if you got that, congratulations, -- one of the things that treasure secretaries do is discuss financial stuff. that's a travel to the middle east to top oil prices, return current and divestment and the u.s.. these are photos of those three treasury secretaries visiting gulf states. there aren't that many voters of them, because they weren't many trips. over two different administrations, all three of
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them together visited the persian gulf states eight times. it times and total between all of them. how about this guy, we recognize him? a marie sent. he held the same jail, during trump's one term, you know many times he went to the gulf states? at least 18. a lastly guys won eight times in total between them, this guy won 18 times themself. was a 12-hour flight to visit his friends on the gulf more often than you visited your friends who live across town. 18 times in the four years. why? you're reporting suggests one ounce or. treasury secretary was visiting saudi arabia to scare up new investments for himself, not for the united states. which is a thing called self
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dealing, how are not supposed to. they reported on four sums of cash that the gulf monarchies and buses and protest projects being run by him. as those projects for trump's son-in-law jared kushner. the monarchy sopping out these funds some of those guys left with up administration. besides gave stephen mnuchin a billion dollars for his new investment fund. they gave dirt kushner two billion dollars and they did this even though some of the advisers recommended against that and writing a determined cushion have no experience under their own satisfactory in all aspects. but still, we give them two billion dollars different. why?
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his father and modernization bond doctors for four years but six other interest, citing making other shots of her first foreign trump as president. no other presidents was ever done, or ever will. trump and kushner and stephen mnuchin defended the saudis autocratic de facto ruler after he imprisoned hundreds of royal family members. after started a blockade and qatar. after he signed on to kidnap and this member-y washington post earnest. all that over the four years of the was something. couple billion dollars at least. especially along trump might be president again. so there's this implicit quid pro quo.
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remember how good you were when your in office? how administration was good to you? how about you put some honey in my pocket. all that quid pro quo with kushner, but this reporting is that he was actually using his positions to tee up these money and whistling for themselves. kushner and unveiled a new u. s. government backed investment fund that was raised billions of dollars for projects in the middle east. often end of the trump presidency, they can find all over the middle east on the text read them to raise money for those governments fund. jade made three trips and weeks between the election and the inauguration of joe biden. but whenever six that happened, he was on his way back from siberia, acetaminophen was on his way to the centreville. he had a structure because of covid attack, but he tried to squeeze and one more meeting with leaders that are. here's the thing.
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all those meetings where about this u.s. government backs investment funds. the times describes it as a little more than talk. no income and no belichick's, trump vanished when trump left. kushner and women can raise billions from those countries. dinner raise it for the u.s. government fund, but for themselves. a new tunnel stocking about a plan yeah what. he had detailed investment plans and a half million dollars from the emiratis, the kuwaitis, and qatar's. all those folks who, and then can the billions from saudi arabia. they're working in the government projects and install them at their new adventures where they would get the money. they sent a roster of the top executives, one of the managing
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directors was employed by the u.s. treasury department. it's not even like speeding out the revolving door, this is like, there's no door. you go to work for the u.s. government and the name of the u.s. government, you raise money for yourself. on one hand, it feels like another bit of girl's actions. on the other hand, it feels like something so blatant. it cannot possibly stand. candidate? hold that thought. that thought. and greater workforce visibility today, so you can have more success tomorrow. ♪ one thing leads to another, yeah, yeah ♪ it's time for our memorial day sale on the sleep number 360 smart bed.
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country. a high-ranking official and high-ranking family member repeatedly did big favors for a troubling foreign monarchy. and then, as soon as they left office, that family member and that high-ranking official personally collected billions of dollars from that same monarchy for their own private business ventures. you might say, you know, wow! the former soviet union is really corrupt. or those families are really so reformed. they're not making this democracy like. us in your, mind you might say,
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yeah, it's crazy that the united states of america put donald trump in presidency. the new york times new reporting now reveals that trump's treasury secretary apparently spent the five months meeting with foreign government officials in the government capacity, who then shoveled, literally, billions of dollars to kushner in their own privacy business ventures right after they left office. it is just a smacking as it sounds. joining us now is one of the reporters. our top correspondent, kate, thank you very much for being here. >> thank you rachel. pleasure to join you. >> what is the connection between the meetings that mr. kushner and mr. manisha took as government officials? and, the leader investment that was made by government officials in the foreign countries that you've described to make these massive investigations and private
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ventures able for those men. >> well, at a minimum, i think that those meetings don't to relationships. it was at a time when both kushner and when osha were weeks away from leaving office as trump stepped down. so, they got to know their counter foreign. part in kushner's case with, it was important for the heads of sovereign wealth funds or large government investment funds run by many countries and notably. in munitions case, and you pointed it out in your intro, the 18 countries over four years, which had a huge cluster in january 21, has them get connections months later who would invest in his funds. now, we also know that this abraham fund that you mentioned, there's three billion dollars, at least that was the goal, u.s. government backed fund that was meant to fund
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development projects in places like palestine where israeli checkpoints would be improved and modernized among other things. that was something that was on both of those officials item agendas as they toured the goal for the final months of office to talk about building enthusiasm and support for the fun. but, as you noted, it didn't really go anywhere. what did go somewhere, right after government, was jared kushner private equity fund and steven mnuchin private equity fund. >> i described this as self dealing. because, if somebody is not an expert in this, somebody is just a lay observer, it seems like the kind of dictionary definition of somebody using their public position, their access to public resources. potentially, even their actions as government officials to set themselves up for private gain. is that fair in terms of the layman's understanding of that? , and as an extension of, that is this potentially illegal
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behavior? >> well, that was obviously one of the top questions that we were asking ourselves, rachel, as david and patrick and i reported on this. as we were talking to ethics experts, this is quite legal. if we as americans want to see this kind of activity ceased in the future, we need to probably codify some new rules and regulations that prevent one from seeking outside investments from foreign government counterparts once they leave office. in this case, the executive branch. but right, now this is quite legal. self feeling is a little bit more of a term of art. but, sure. i mean, depending on your perspective, i think that that is something that you could say. there are laws that govern your participation as government officials. it matters that we expect your financial position or immediate. family i believe that it's 18 usc 208. but in this case, while not impossible, well i did speak to
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at the experts they thought that this could theoretically be applied. it is very hard. because what you really need to establish is a quid pro quo. so, both parties, in this, case of sovereignty fund individuals would have to know that there was sort of a two-part transaction going on that resulted in them receiving money. and i don't know that that's the case. i don't want to suggest that it was. but, in any case, even if it were, it would be very hard to demonstrate for a prosecutor. >> right, certainly, to prove it in court. of course. kate kelly, new york times correspondent with the groundbreaking reporting. thank you for helping us understand it. i appreciate your time. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back, stay with us. , stay with us. ound her. she's in prague between the ideal cup of coffee and a truly impressive synthesizer collection. and you can find her right now (lepsi?) on upwork.com (lepsi.) when the world is your workforce, finding the perfect project manager,
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