what actually happened in uvalde. how school security ramped up in the wake of previous mass murders continue to fail and why all of us are concerns about more guns keep getting ignored. and as the leaders of america's gun crisis meet at the nra convention going all about the potential for congress. >> why only in the your country, why isn't only in america? why is this exceptionalism so awful? >> when all in starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes, what we know happened at ramallah matthew school in uvalde texas is that 19 children and two teachers were shot and killed. they were murdered by an 18 -year-old who purchased two weapons as soon as he was legally able. right after his 18th birthday. there's a lot we do not know. in particular, about the timeline of just what happened

on tuesday. they're a lot of outstanding questions about when the police arrived at the scene, how long the shooter was in the building, how long it was before he went into the building, what officer did, or crucially, didn't do to stop him. this afternoon, local officials held a press conference and was clear that there are still many holes in the story. we're gonna talk more about that later in the show. but something that i am certain of, is that the most wrongheaded downright dystopian response to the murder in the town of uvalde is to call for quote, hardening schools. >> we have to harden our schools, not soften them up. >> the most important thing we can do is harden the schools. >> harden schools. >> hardening schools. >> god help us if we don't harden our schools and protect our kids. >> you ever notice when that

happens, like some nasty new bit of lingo that didn't exist before in all like iran is saying it. clearly there was some memmel, somewhere. that was the enraging response from the right after the massacre in 2018. another horrific school shooting where 17 people were killed. they said to harden the schools, because in the wake of mass shootings, people want as many americans as possible that as many guns as possible. they have to come up with something to say in these moments. with arguments to deflect blame from the obvious culprit here which is a nation that is more guns than people and more guns per capita than any country on earth. they have to have something to say. and in that context, they try to blip the blame on all sorts of things, just to get through the segment. to get through the first few days. could be anything, it doesn't matter it's just what's around.

like violent video games until illness. lately, it's been all about school safety. but he is a thing that ad hoc reverse engineer rhetorical opportunism of, what do we say? harden schools. it becomes policy. as it become policy that is change the lives of everyone's children. all of our children. it's being done in texas. they've been hardening the schools. there are rock hard. after ten people were killed in the 2018 school shooting at santa fe high school governor greg abbott unleashed a so-called firearm safety plan with more than 100 million dollars of funding. that's real money. that's actual policy. and yesterday, in the wake of another massacre at another texas school, governor abbott wanted everyone to know they hardened schools. >> we allocated more than $600 million, more than half a billion dollars, to address school safety. and it's our platform to adress

and it what's called, school hardening. >> okay. so, there's a school shooting, you hard in the schools, there's another school shooting. what do we conclude here? it was action look like? and uvaldi, it looked like this. was a real thing. this is the uvalde police departments swat team that went on visiting schools under the strict and full tactical uniforms. according to his facebook post. we have all the school district also has its own police department it consists of six officers. and like nearly every school in america, new lockdown drills at relevant to school. but as a reporter noted in the new york times quote, there's a little of an all-star lockdown drills mitigate risk. also concern from brand educators, and much of the experts that because fear and designing for children. in some cases, it seems possible to be the lockdown drills maybe finding an idea of

a shooter in the reigns of kids. and this is unlike some isolated incident. an entire industry has grown up around so-called school security, and certainly lined a lot of caucus. as of 2017, it was a 2. 7 billion dollar market. looks still for some were just not hardening schools enough. >> we don't of all of these unlock back doors. we have one door into an out of the school. and of that one armed police officers at that door. if that had happened, if those federal grants have gone to the school, that psychopath arrived, the and bullies officers could've taken him out. >> well are we sure about that? police would've taken the out? so intervening to hear? some choices.

are we conceive of every school in this nation as first and foremost, side of a possible massacre. and re-design and engineer every building with that in mind. should we make mass gun massacre prevention a core part of what schooling is, was schooling procedures look like? as a parent, and as a citizen, i say no. no. i don't accept the. schools are public places, their places of learning, for children, and teachers, and staff. to grow and flourish, and play together. they are not prisons, they are not fortresses, they shop to be. no more heartening schools, but more lockdowns, no war. the actual massacres are bad enough. the grief, the trauma, it's bad enough. the trauma, for the families in uvalde or parkland or santa faye or on and on. the trauma of the ritualized child sacrifice of america gun

culture. and we've chosen to add on top of that the burden of making our school places where every single child is subjected to the experience of hiding for their lives as an exercise? obviously, there are common sense security measures, okay? every school ever been to to keep track of laws that come in and of, for example. i don't think that those things preposterous, the designed. whatever. yes, he should know which of those are in your building, you should know how they come and sensible, fine, but no more of those hardening school nonsense. the manifest failures of that strategy are on display tragically, in uvalde, now. and it absolutely cannot be the case that our response to another massacre is to repeat those failures.

times covering education policy her latest piece is called, public school secure strategies of nostalgia shootings. and she joins me now. they, know this is an excellent piece of reporting, and i feel amiss this awful horrible situation. useful information that i don't know, thank you for doing it. just on the little. that uvalde, texas schools really did get money and put into place a bunch of procedures to try to make them more secure. >> they did and in recent years, they drastically increased their budget for school security. and they had drills, they had a system that scaned i. d. s when you came into the building. that would be checked for a child predator list, or not custodial parent. he had the exercises they found a local police was boasting about. and seeing if you see, us don't these kids. knowing that potentially seeing adults coming into the building outfit that way could be alarming for children.

they had many high tech apps that they're using to scan social media, for example, to see the threats there from students. they had suicide prevention experts, and a huge focus on building. counselors, their social workers, so those really a lot of the best practices that folks talk about. >> again, it's a spectrum of stuff here. and i think the software, about who was unaware of the large business, called social sandal, respondent so -- an app called stop it. again, some of the stuff seems perfectly reasonable. some of it seems a little skeptical, but a little question, what evidence we have? like lockdown drills. is it an evidence based practice? to have an evidence that they're accomplishing it?

>> folks that support the drills say they don't prevent shootings. it's supposed to provide student strategies unorthodox there in that situation. which is difficult to contemplate. or do complicate so often because recovered so often. and people lived through them. and oxford,'s michigan, which was one, i covered late last year. teenager streaming out of that building told reporters that they felt that they knew what to do escape and run quickly because of these joes. but, there's very little rigorous evidence that these make a risk. and we have to weigh them against the fear and anxiety they do cause for children who have to participate in these several times over the course of our single school year. >> again, i can tell this generational i didn't grow up with them i don't believe you did as well. then you pointed out, the people doing the shootings of into the drills. so there's a generational aspect. there's also this question of like, i guess there's a larger social question which is, how

do you conceive the school as a place? and, you know, the hardening ideas and thinking about the way that you think about a courthouse. >> yes. >> a prison, an airport, as opposed to, i don't know, a store, or a wreck center. that seems to me like one of the things here. and there's an enormous business that's been buildup, as i learn from your reporting and your colleagues, of trying to go over the school security. >> absolutely and here there is much stronger research stuff to talk about. the hundreds of millions and billions of dollars that have been spent in this industry of school hardening have not resulted in any measurable decreases and gun violence for kids in schools. so, we do have to ask a question. are these good expenditures? and, there are some simple low-cost actually free things that people can study school

shooting be exposed to as effective. >> like? >> for example, locking doors. keeping them locked. because and very few instances have a mass shooter stop to pick a lock, or attempt to break into a locked door, because they usually do want to get to victims, and he moved quickly. >> there's this question of the actual, numerical risk of this. which in the grand scheme of things is relatively low, in the firearms are leading cause of death for children. most of it is happening not in a kind of context like uvalde or santa fe. but, also, it's not crazy that this looms large in the minds of parents as such a cultural fact. and one of the things that policy makers have to do is navigate that and see how the math of it is gonna lined out to, like, cover yourself with a more security. >> yeah absolutely i'm a parent.

i dropped off my children in school this week, a lot of governing this atrocity. and it's terrifying. a policy maker should respond, and they do. we will say that over the past 20 years, more ordinary crimes and schools of plummeted. schools are generally the safest place for kids. most of the kids experience harm at homes and their neighborhoods sadly, not a school. schools are safe havens for most children. >> that's an important point. >> you doctor armor that, but at the same time we can't accept these mass shootings either. >> all right, jenna goldstein, thanks. fantastic work. >> thanks for having me. >> as i said above, they saw a lot we are noble would have been any validity, with a lot of hostile questions of a timeline of the police response we're getting to sort through it all. try to get to the bottom of what should be a simple question status or. like was there, or was there not an office or the school. that's next. >> officers with the school district, they approached the gunman and engaged with the gunman at that time. >> was there a school officer

on campus, and was that school officer armed because that's what we have been told? >> so at this time, no. no.

two days after the texas school shooting, leaving 19 teachers, to teachers that, there still a lot we don't know about what's happened. there is a lot of conflicting information. for example, initially, officials said that a student resource officer engaged the

shooter, before he entered the school. that was a statement made by texas governor, greg abbott, yesterday afternoon, repeated by the texas department of public safety. >> as he was approaching, as the governor mentioned earlier, there was a brave independent school district resource officer, who approached him, engaged him, and at that time, gunfire was not exchanged. but, the subject was able to make it into the school. >> let's hold that, for a second. that description there. even that description, itself, was a little unclear. no gunfire was exchanged? what did engagement? did he say where you're going, and then a broken? that was unclear. it seems like that event, either happened, or didn't. then, today, the new york times reported, that police officer was not stationed at the school, but instead it, was in a car nearby, rushing to the scene after the first calls came into

9-1-1, of a gunman near the school. this afternoon, a different official confirmed that reporting, but would not stand by that comment. >> was there a school officer, on campus, and was that school officer armed? that is what we've been told. >> at this time, no. no. there was not an officer readily available, armed. no. >> was there an officer? >> no. nothing. i can't answer that yet. let me circle back to you. >> wait, what? it's understandable, in the moments after a shooting like this, even in the eight hours like this, that things get mixed up, and confused. it's chaotic. that was true of columbine, with lots of false information coming out. but, as you know, tonight, more than two days later, there is still a lot of basic information we do not know. including, why it took over an hour for a tactical team to enter the school and, confront the gunman, in the classroom. i am grown from the nbc correspondent, carrie sanders, who is out today's law enforcement press conference in texas. correspondent can delay any, and who's collecting all of the

conflicting information. you are at that press conference. do you feel like you got your clarity on some of these basic questions? >> you know, the questions that the folks here, in this community, the parents who lost children, the parents who had kids in the school, in general, this was more confusing than anything they could have anticipated. they have respect for law enforcement here, they see the spokesman come up to the podium, lots of cameras here, but also, standing in the background, listening in, and they hear, first of all, about a ten minute window that makes little sense. which is, the gunman crashes his stolen pick up truck into a ditch, comes out, with a bag, and they're gone. the people who rush over, initially, think that they are going to help somebody who is involved in a traffic accident. shots are fired, those witnesses then retreat.

you assume one is the one who makes a 9-1-1 call. in the meantime, the gunman jumped the fence, and there is ten minutes before he gets into the school. the police department is 1. 2 miles from here. i mapped it. if you were following the root, if you were obeying the stop signs, at the speed limit, you would get here and five. with lights, and sirens, you could be here like that. so, you have the gunman making entry, so it is, then, for more minutes before the officers arrive, and get inside. that is like 14 minutes before the officers are in. in the meantime, the gunman has made his way. we thought we were told, 20 steps down, 20 steps over, and into a classroom. but now, peak williams, and jonathan dean's, with their sources, have discovered that there were two other classrooms

where the gunman had shot, and left victims. then, he goes into this other classroom, which seems to be a shared, partition go all. there's two classes there, and it was either to classrooms, or one classroom, and the carnage begins. the authorities say, most of the gunfire happened quite quickly. suggesting, well most people were killed and, and there was this long wait, then they began these negotiations. so, i followed up with the news conference, and there was a back-and-forth conversation. he said, no. really, there was not negotiations there was. officers, attempting, to make contact. then, you have this long waiting period. i think every family members, some that i've spoken to, have said, was my child, potentially, still alive? these officers could have gone in, or trying to go in? my child is dead because they did not? really, that is the crux of what they left in the mind of everybody here by, not

answering the questions about what happened that hour. so, when there is an attempted breach, and the door is lock to, and they're unsure how to get in, they didn't look for another day. didn't call the fire department saying, we have your jobs, can we have a battering ram, the fire department was not called to help. they did not do the sort of things that other law enforcement has told me, since, you should have thought of, and ultimately it, was a border patrol team who goes in? they got the key from the principal. the officers, of course who, were there, never got the key. so many questions, and so many people who want to know, what about my child? was my child still alive if they had tried to go in? >> that's well laid out. can, you know, i know you've been reporting on this as well. we have seen the cell phone video, of parents outside. there is a report from the ap, now the wall street journal, the wall street journal has a story of a woman who is handcuffed by federal marshals, local cops, on camera. she goes into the building to get her kids and, there is a 40,

or 50 minutes, maybe an hour, where it seems like the shooter is in the building, the cops and parents are outside, and i guess the question to you is, do we know, are there any police in that building, for that period of time? what happened there? >> we do not believe there was any police in that building, during that time. let me first say, because the marshals are denying that they handcuff that woman. nonetheless, it is indisputable, parents -- we have many accounts, that parents were asking for the police officers to go on, some even saying that they wanted to go and. we all know, after the 1999 columbine shooting, police doctrine on school shootings changed. during that incident, they waited, and that was deemed to have been a mistake. they waited for the swat team, and more people died because of

it. so, the doctrine became, you go and with what you have, immediately. that did not happen here. there may be a perfectly good reason for it, but if there is one, we have not heard it. we have heard about these doors, that they have, there were hardened doors, and they were locked. it appears, there was some delay, because they were worried about trying to breach the door. but as gary said, ultimately, they got the key from the principle. what we don't understand, for example, as why some officers didn't go to the windows of the classroom. there are just so many questions. there is a troubling issue here with the way that texas officials have characterized this, and have not disclosed key information, and change their story, as you laid out beautifully. but even more troubling, are these gaps. the ten minute gap, as carey laid out, and the 60 minute gap. they really need to explain this. >> yes. those are the basics. really, there's just a basic

question here. before you even get to who's responsible, who did, or didn't do their job, literally, just what happened? which sequence? still, 48 hours, again there, is a fog of war thing that happens first, our six hours, day. 48 hours out, it feels like we should know more, we should have more clarity. i know you two gentlemen will reported out. can sanders, can delay any, thank you so much, appreciate it. coming up, what it means to police, the most armed country in the world, and they ignored concerns from law enforcement about making it easier to carry guns in public. that's next.

>> we are outraged that as a nation we fail to act decisively to stem the flow of these guns that have no legitimate sporting news i've obviously become an increasing numbers the weapon of choice for our worst criminals. to me and to my colleagues this is a simple issue. but there are those who are trying to complicated beyond comprehension. weapons designed exclusively for the purpose of killing people should be banned except for military personnel. >> there is a time in a mackerel of residence that shoulder to shoulder with lawmakers in their efforts to keep pardons of mass death off the streets. those the chief of menomonie falls wisconsin belize department and event with president bill clinton. try to drum up support for the assault weapons ban portion of

all as a 1994 crime bill. and it was a pretty easy so. here he along with senator joe biden are then human by trump indicates police were squarely on the side of the regulation. tell a lot expire intentionally in 2004 by republican presidents generally can congress. as a big thing they did. a we know have more permissive laws around the country. there's gonna regulations of loosened and the amount of guns have increased and that includes texas. republican governor greg abbott outside all kinds of laws loosening gun restrictions getting on the largest whatever they carry a gun at anytime just about anywhere without a permit. no i should know that law was opposed a blue laugh isn't in kick texas. ray hunts the director of police union before the long

time defects we work into the post of the last kirov and you said all the same arguments they were saying no. and nothing up and swore up there were overreacting. we're just concerned because anytime there's more guns, there's a problem. we keep moseying that exact bone play out in places like uvalda and beyond. mike blackstone spent 20 years a police department is not the doctor follicle relationships of the black law enforcement alliance. and he joins me now. you know, mark's talking to the state legislature the other night, and she talked about this bill that was signed into law whether garner support by republicans which allows unknown to gain the states. and she's at the police unit opposed it. and i said to her police unions the probably very powerful down there. >> she said oh yeah they're very powerful. this is the only thing they lost on. how do you understand the? >> i think that a similar dynamic exists in many police

agencies and entities that exist in the real world. in the general population in the electorate where we have a large number of citizens who are saying as say 80% saying that there needs to be stricter gun laws, in use abused stricter on all of bins. and you'll still have elected officials are supposed to be representative of those, of the electorate. opposing that movement. i think in a lot of police agencies, not all, but a lot of police agencies is the same dynamic. the reagan file living practitioners of street justice and have a clear understanding in the streets about the impact of violence in particular gun violence who are familiar with the devastation caused by assault weapons if you will. who have children in these very same schools. they are overwhelmingly opposed

to loosening gun restrictions. and in fact, i think they've been on the record, the record fall event on the record indicating the day needs to be stricter gun laws. and part of that is selfish. police officers come into direct contact with those individuals who wish to cause harm by use of these weapons. >> yeah, i mean, this is something that i've reported on quite a bit. i read a book a few years ago others jumped on it, and might even call unit. but it just seems like an obvious truth to start out with. that the more armed of helplessness, the more difficult it can be for police. at the more lake lee, in every direction, there will be by the violence. >> yeah absolutely. and police officers are real about that.

and i's i said the part of the selfish. it's much more difficult to maintain order and have some level of control when you're not sure about who's carrying what firearm one weapon on the streets. when you listen of the gun laws, in particular in texas, message of the police officers that much more difficult. because, like it or not, you got to respond a particular way when there is a fire arm in the equation. when there's 11 equation. the police response is different. so increase the likelihood of bad outcomes, for violent outcomes. there's a population that has a lot of weapons. >> it seems of overseeing no we don't have the full story that lisa response of that building. but we do know is that there's someone in that with two powerful weapons on a tenth of a new munition. a christmas ablations about how one would. >> absolutely there are 1000 title decisions going through the mind of these officers

responding to see such as the. that's why so wise to get as much info as possible about what actually happened. what was happening before casting blame or doubt in a position of the professionals assigned their. could this way, there's actually one of the children were killed there was the daughter of a uvalde county sheriff. so there is an understanding about the level of danger there. and there's gonna be continued conversation about the responsibility that law enforcement house in mitigating and minimizing death. >> yeah, there's gonna be a lot of conversation. as we learn more and more now gloss than thank you very much. >> thanks chris. >> still ahead for the community is love to pick up the pieces texas republicans are headed to houston with a

fun filled weekend at the nra. >> i just want to understand why you don't think the guns are the problem? >> why is this just american problem? >> it is just an american problem sir. >> why is america the only country that faces this kind of mass shooting? >> you can't answer that can you? you?

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tragedy lewis to the most severe and hard the one human

right in history. a nation can on game safety by giving up freedom. we will not relinquish it or be silenced rv told, do not come here you are on welcoming all land. >> on the weekend of april 30th 1999 by country was grieving the loss of 12 kids and one teacher who was shot and killed at columbine high school ten days earlier, then ari held its annual convention in denver just a short drive from the side of the shooting. despite thousands of protesters opposing the, violently gun rights organization struck defiant tone. 23 years, later just days after another deadly school shooting us happening again, the lobbying arm of the nra is going out of this annual convention in houston tomorrow. in the same way kagan murdered 19 elementary school students, to teachers in uvalde texas. and you know i said loving, there are a part of this is run by the nra hands to throw legislative action. so it's not, you know, local

gun hobbyists. no, these are the lobbyists we have, quote worked vigorously to pass pro gun reform at the sea level. like friends dense, texas laws and show an 18 year old is to go by and sullivan. otherwise urge republican governor greg abbott authorized tests to go ongoing to drill laws, wichita to during the bill signing of endless spring. >> we're pushing back against this narrative across america, where people are saying, from the federal level to the local level that second amendment rights are under so the governor officials are saying like yes government is going to take or guns. texas will not let that happen. >> as if i know governor is gonna speak of the convention. makes sense, along with texas senator greg abbott. a lot of trump. john cornyn, and they crenshaw, but they will if you opt out. number five miscall acts including a market by singer don mcclain, i've got you

singers larry glen and their seward have also jumped out, not like the lawmakers, the musician say the shooting is why they wanted send. gun safety protesters say they're planning a demonstration near the event. leaders of the country's two largest teachers unions will speak as well. of course, any change at the federal level, which is the most important change, as the come from capitol hill. senate democrats have been working to find any common ground other publicans on the gun safety bill. of those democrats guys you're next. next

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including 19 little children, were murdered when air 50 million gunmen. podcaster ted cruz, also villages that are of texas, will head to houston to make an appearance and organization which those authentic all the spa national rifle association. ted cruz and is a plus rating frozen or a first that fast opposition to gun reform a lobbyist of,'s willingness to be from the top in place, and even watch tragic circumstances. but of course talking football game so far on the bridge or noticed mark stone enters jeff who's fled the scene. >> their 19 south offense who are never gonna get to kiss their child again. >> is this monitor from gun loss? >> it's easy to go to politics.

>> it's important, it's at the heart of the issue. >> i get i got that's where the media wants to go. >> no, this what a lot of people we talk to want to go. >> inevitably, or some violent, psychopath murderous people. >> about think about who's able to get a weapon so easily, an 18 year old with two ar-15s. >> if you want to stop violent crime, the proposals the democrats have, none of them would've stopped this. >> but is this only happen in your country? i really think that so many people around the world just cannot fathom. why only in america? why is this an american exceptionalism so awful? >> i'm sorry think american exceptionalism is awful. >> i think this aspect of it. >> you got your political agenda, god love you. >> senator, i don't understand why don't think that guns are the problem? >> isn't just an american problem? >> it is just america problem

sir. >> why is america the only country that thinks this is -- >> you can answer that, can you. you can answer that. >> why is it that people come from all over the world's america, because is the fiesta most prosperous, safest country on earth. >> maybe the freest, maybe the most -- >> it's not the safest on earth it just isn't. i wish it were but it isn't. exactly would've for that guy. that's that. cruz is one of the 50 republican senators who for the biggest or bucked any meaningful, or even on meaningful gun reform. he's been rooting for the position with a speaking slot at the nra convention tomorrow. senator tammy duckworth is them gravel my literally, member of the armed services committee and she joins you know. senator, first of all what do you think about your colleagues going to address this convention tomorrow? >> sickening, nauseating, but it's true to form because the

more they care more about checks for the nra the 90 musket children and all the other children have been massacred. and the winds will be massacred after today. it's only been ten days since the shootings in new york. we're gonna have another mass shooting here i'm sure, and then x move weeks, of the veterans. and so, yes, i'm disgusted by, it but i'm not surprised, because they continue to value chase malaria over the lives of little babies. >> there's some talk, chris murphy who's talking, and maybe mcconnell is not up to someone. in june, six evans back in the district. there's a kind of learned helplessness that are on house about this, at this point. and you can't really blame them. you're one of 100 u.s. senators, how do you think about it? one of the prospects? >> well, one calling to stop the filibuster, and of sensible gun legislation the 50 vote

threshold. we have a bill that's already passed the house and can pass the senate. we can do anything if your mind straight. by the way out of a percent of americans away oversupply contracts. getting rid of the gun show loophole. ever since the o'sullivan's battles allowed to expire the number of mass shootings and the foremast readings as tripled in this country. so there's two things you can do right there is can go to sullivan's, reinstating the ban alleged universal migrant checks. but that's a good start. >> let me sketch out the gun reform paradox, as i understand. america has the highest level gun order ship in the world, that's twice the next highest nation, which is yemen, per capita. goma got morgan's than people, i guns are durable, just a ton of guns out there. meaningfully reducing gun violence in america would require some pretty significant rain exchanges.

but of course, that's not possible. it might not even be popular. they think that would matter, by gun checks, the things like that hr eight. a lot of, course the people who oppose further legislation, understand that as the norm under the camel stent. the cow most nose under the ten. they get that that's the ferris of opening -- how do you convince them otherwise? >> they need to listen to their constituents. 95% of americans, including honduras, and outdoorsman, republicans, and even michael republicans, some of them support universal background checks. this is not about the callous nose under the tent, chris. this is about politicians who care more about a check, a paid day, a payoff from gun manufacturers, they do that babies. that's the bottom line here. we're talking about getting rid of the assault weapon. restoring the ban.

we're talking are getting rid of high capacity magazines. if the shooter got under that room full of little babies and then have to ar-15s, but had a single handgun, because you can get assigns onto his old rivals at age of 18, then we wouldn't have to high death rate we do today. there's a lot we can do right away, and frankly, my colleague care more about a check in their account than they do about babies being killed while this was to be a school. >> how do you think about, was her relationship to guns? i do think about guns? >> i'm a marksman. i shall backspin marksmanship batch from the army and, i grew up with guns. my dad was a world-class shooter. that's where they belong, they belong arrange. they belong in war, i carry an up 16, later now for my time, my don't favorites a service on the military. i've seen that what weapons do to the bodies, let alone little baby's bodies. and these colleagues of mine, at the drop of a hat could've

picked up a fetus on the floor of the senate and blended up and giant poster size format, but they refused to look at what a little body that has been destroyed by an ar-15 looks like. it's hypocrisy at best, and i'm just disgusted by them. there's things that we can do that would get the had the olympians out of the hands of people who commit the mass shootings. as i said just da silva pence van along with by allowing the expire has allowed the deaths from mass shootings to triple in this country. their stuff that we can do. chris, i spend the other night doomscrolling on my phone looking for ballistic proof back pass for my four and ten year old, and looking for ballistic proof white room markers. i guess, what was already book liked because it's not the first time that of looked it up. that's wrong. we shouldn't be in the situation.

>> senator tammy duckworth, thank you so much for him time for us, i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> that is all in on this thursday night, msnbc prime sides with ali velshi live from revolted excess good evening ali. >> chris, thank you, good evening, and thank you and home for joining us this hour. this picture is worth 1000 more, perhaps more. this is the you've all the leader news today. the date is may 24th 2022. this, of course, is the day, two days ago. it's been 48 hours killing 19 children, and two teachers. here, at the robb elementary school, in texas. today, another death. the grieving husband of one of the slain teacher says died. joe garcia, married to the teacher irma, collapsed, and i today, courting to his family. he was preparing for the funeral of his wife of 24 years. they were college sweethearts.

they were high school sweethearts. his death leaves their four children paralyzed. it is a reminder, as if this town needed one, the tuesday's tragedy is not over. the shockwaves will reverberate across this community in, countless ways, for countless weeks, months, and years. the raw grief among the residents here, of course, is no less than it was on tuesday. increasingly, the sadness is mingled with frustration, and anger, as people are unable to get them here on what they're happen to do here. it is over an hour before they were shot, and killed by law enforcement. they are trying to treat authorities as the massacre unfolded. in the aftermath of any horrific event, information is spotty. our understanding of what happens evolves over time, but even by those standards of breaking, and developing news, the inability of officials to give a consistent, and coherent account of a key