Skip to main content

tv   Andrea Mitchell Reports  MSNBC  May 27, 2022 9:00am-10:00am PDT

9:00 am
to get things done for us. i approve this message, and all these shoes too. good day, everyone. i'm chris jansing in for andrea mitchell. questions and frustration are mounting. new details about what happened at robb elementary school are being uncovered three days after the town's tragedy. in the last 24 hours, we learned that much of what we were first told was not true. the shooter entered the school unobstructed. there was no school resource officer who engaged with the shooter. the doors were unlocked. for 12 minutes after crashing his vehicle, the gunman fired on civilians before entering.
9:01 am
on thursday, kerry sanders asked why it took an hour. >> the majority of the gunfire was in the beginning. in the beginning. i say numerous, more than 25. it was a lot of gunfire in the beginning. during the negotiations, there wasn't much gunfire other than trying to keep the officers at bay. that could change depending -- once we analyze the video. right now, according to the information, he did not respond. >> there's more heartbreaking news. joe garcia died of a heart attack. the husband of elementary schooler irma garcia who was killed along with her students. they were high school sweethearts and have four children. the youngest just 12 years old. the children who survived are telling their stories of terror during the worst hour of their lives. >> i hear shoot, shoot, shoot.
9:02 am
try to shoot at the officer. they ran past, went back inside. >> what were you thinking as you were hiding in the bathroom so long? >> i think i was just like trying to be still, not move, talk. i was crying my head, still making the noise. >> today, the national rifle association's convention is going forward as planned in texas. governor abbott is now addressing this weekend's attendees via a pre-recorded video statement. we will have a live report from houston this hour. we begin in uvalde with nbc's sam brock. the community hoping, obviously, for more answers from the texas department of safety at the top of this press conference. what are we expecting? >> reporter: we are minutes away from hearing from dps. officials yesterday sounded at a loss for words. >> let's go -- i'm sorry. let's go live to the press conference. it's just started.
9:03 am
>> social or digital media footprint of the subject. 11:27, we know from video evidence, 11:27, the exterior door, suspected of what we knew, the shooter entered, ramos, was propped open by a teacher. 11:28, the suspect vehicle crashes into the ditch as previously described. the teacher runs to the room 132 to retrieve a phone. that same teacher walks back to the exit door and door remains propped open. two males, as reported by the regional director, two males at
9:04 am
a funeral home, when they heard the crash, they went to the scene. when they arrived, they saw a man with the gun exit with a backpack. they began running. ramos began shooting at them. did not hit them. one of the males fell when he was running. both males returned to the funeral home while running and then again we see through video teacher re-emerges and calls 911. 911 call at 11:30, there was a crash, man with a gun. 11:31, suspect reaches last row of vehicles in school parking lot. 11:31, suspect shooting began at the school while patrol vehicles got to the funeral home. i will point out where it is.
9:05 am
crashed vehicle is over here. suspect was hiding behind a vehicle, started walking down shooting into the classroom. there was discussion early on that in isd consolidated isd for uvalde, had an officer, who was a resource officer and had confronted the subject. that did not happen. it was stated in preliminary interviews. often these interviews doesn't reveal the type of information and certainly police officers, like anyone else, under stress witnesses get it wrong. the bottom line is an officer was not on scene, not on campus, but heard the call about the man with a gun. drove to the area. sped to what he thought was the man with a gun, to the back of
9:06 am
the school, what turned out to be a teacher and not the suspect. in doing so, he drove by the suspect who was hunkered down behind a vehicle where he began shooting at the school. 11:31, suspect shooting in between the vehicle is when it began. patrol vehicle gets to the funeral home. multiple shots are fired outside the school at 11:31. patrol car accelerates into the parking lot. drives by the shooter. that's what i was talking about, the isd officer at that time. he passes then leaves camera view. multiple shots fired at the school at 11:32. at 11:32:27, 11:33, the suspect entered the school at the door that i'm pointing to now. 11:33, suspect begins shooting into room 111 or 112.
9:07 am
it's not possible to determine from the video angle that we have at this point in time. we do know this. he shot more than 100 rounds based on the audio evidence at that time. at least 100 rounds. he entered at 11:33. he started shooting in the classrooms 111 and 112. 11:35, three police officers entered the same door as the suspect entered. all three police officers worked with the uvalde police department. they were later followed by another four, a team of uvalde police officers, and also a county sheriff -- county deputy sheriff. a total of seven officers were on the scene. three initial police officers that arrived went directly to the door and two received grazing wounds at that time from the suspect. while the door was closed.
9:08 am
11:37, more gunfire. another 16 rounds was fired at 11:37. one at 11:37:16. at 11:51, police sergeant and agents started to arrive. 12:03, officers continue to arrive in the hallway. there were as many as 19 officers at that time in that hallway. at 12:15, more members arrived. not the entire group but members. along with shields. 12:41, the suspect fired again. was believed to be at the door. 11:21, law enforcement moved down the hallway.
9:09 am
11:50, they breached the door using keys from the janitor because both doors were locked. both classrooms he shot into were locked when officers arrived. they killed the suspect at that time. now i would like to go over the 911 timeline. i warn you is not -- it's better i read it than you listen to it. a caller identified -- i will not say her name -- but she was in room 112 called 911 at 12:03. the duration was one minute and 23 seconds. she identified herself and whispered she's in room 112.
9:10 am
at 12:10, she called back and advised multiple dead. 12:13, again she called on the phone. again at 12:16. she called back and said, eight to nine students alive. at 12:19, the 911 call was made and another person in room 111 called. i will not say her name. she hung up when another student told her to hang up. 12:21, you could hear over the 911 call three shots were fired. 12:36, 911 call that lasted for 21 seconds. the initial caller called back, student/child called back. was told to stay on the line and be quiet. she told 911 that he shot the
9:11 am
door. at approximately 12:43 and 12:47 she asked 911 to send the police now. at 12:46, she said she could not -- that she could hear the police next door. at 12:50 shots are fired that could be heard over the 911 call. 12:52 very loud and sounds like the officers are moving children out of the room. at that time, the first child that called was outside before the call cuts off. additional information that we have is that 58 total magazines at the school. 11 of those were inside the school. three were on the suspect's body.
9:12 am
two in room 112. six in room 111. five were on the ground. one was in the rifle. 32 magazines outside the school. on school property. one just outside the building and 31 in the backpack that he did not take into the classrooms with him. 15 magazines at the crash site. two magazines in the residence for 60 magazines. he purchased and had a total of 1,657 total rounds of ammunition. 315 of those rounds were inside the school. 142 of those were spent cartridges. 173 were live rounds. 922 were outside of the school but on school property. 22 of those were spent cart ridges. 900 were live rounds. 422 were at the crash site. 22 were spent cartridges. there's 35 spent law enforcement cartridges total in the school. eight of those were in the
9:13 am
hallway. 27 were inside classroom 111 were the suspect was killed. i mentioned we will go over quickly a digital timeline. i think we talked about early -- i want to correct something that was said early on in the investigation. he posted on facebook publically that he was going to kill -- he was going to shoot his grandmother and after that that he was going to -- that he shot her and third that he was going to shoot up a school. that did not happen. it was on a message. it was a facebook messenger application to somebody else that he had a conversation with. we know that through his digital footprint -- i will do it by time. ramos asked his sister to help him buy a gun. she flatly refused. that was in september of '21.
9:14 am
he made -- i will avoid some of these. instagram of a group chat and it was discussed that ramos being the school shooter. that was on february 28 of 2022. on march 1 of 2022, an instagram with four people, a chat, he discussed him buying a gun. on march 3rd, 2022, another four person chat. quotations, word on the street is you are buying a gun. ramos rereplied, just bought something. on march 14th, instagram posting, by the subject, in quotations, ten more days.
9:15 am
user replies, are you going to shoot up the school or something? the subject replied, no. stop asking dumb questions. you will see. i have agreed to stay as long as we can and answer as many questions as we can. if i can't answer it, because we don't know right now, i will say that. it continues to be a preliminary investigation. literally over hundreds of interviews conducted. will continue to be conducted. thousands of leads that are being pursued, not consecutively but concurrently.
9:16 am
thanks to our federal and local partners. i want to mention behind me, the fbi special agent in charge. we have an atf special agent in charge. of course, who else behind? texas rangers. if there's any specifics i haven't covered that i might need their support on. i want to cover one thing quickly before i go to questions. some of the questions we received -- that we have already received. one of those is going around now that, in fact, the subject had been one of the two arrested by the texas rangers and the local police in 2018. that's not the case. he was not one of the individuals. in fact, we have found no links association of relationships in that investigation. it was back in 2018. two juveniles were charged with
9:17 am
attempted or conspiracy to commit capital murder. no question that we thought and we had evidence. district attorney agreed the juveniles, one 13 and one 14, was a threat to uvalde. there was a discussion at that time, even the senior year of the one that was 14, which would make it 2022. however, that was not the subject. questions? one thing i want to say. one thing i failed to say, when we are done, tony will translate into spanish what the answers and questions are afterwards. [ inaudible ]
9:18 am
>> none at that time. the on-scene commander at the time believed that it had transitioned from active shooter to a barricaded subject. >> you have children calling 911 saying, please, send the police. they are alive in that classroom. there are lives at risk. >> we are well aware of that. >> why was -- [ inaudible ] >> the on-scene commander considered it a barricaded subject and there was time and no more children at risk.
9:19 am
obviously, based upon the information we have, there were children in the classroom that were at risk. it was, in fact, still an active shooter situation and not a barricaded subject. [ inaudible ] [ inaudible ]
9:20 am
>> the question is this, 40-minute gap. if the 911 operators were aware that children were live in that classroom, why weren't officers notified of that? if that's the case, why didn't they take action? that's the question. again, i will go back to the answer for right now is that it was considered -- the decision was made on the scene. i wasn't there. the same point in time, a decision was made that this was a barricaded subject situation. there was time to retrieve the keys and wait for a tactical team with the equipment to go ahead and breach the door and take on the subject at that point. that was the decision. that was the thought process at that particular point in time. [ inaudible ]
9:21 am
>> there was 19 officers in there. there was plenty of officers to do whatever needed to be done with one exception, is that the incident commander inside believed they needed more equipment and more officers to do a tactical breach at that point. as soon as they were there, they executed. they went in. of course, that was not until 12:57. with the benefit of hindsight -- stand by. from the benefit of hindsight where i'm sitting now, of course, it was not the right decision. it was the wrong decision. no excuse for that. i wasn't there. from what we know, we believe there should have been an entry as soon as you can. when there's an active shooter,
9:22 am
the rules change. it's no longer a barricaded subject. you don't have time. you don't worry about outer perimeters. texas embraces active shooter training, active shooting certification. that doctrine requires -- we don't care what agency you are from. every officer lines up, stacks up, goes and finds where rounds are being fired and keeps shooting until the subject is dead, period. [ inaudible ]
9:23 am
[ inaudible ] >> he used a debit card. it's not a credit card. he had money in the bank. why and how is being looked at. hundreds of more -- thousands of more leads are being looked at. we haven't answered all the questions. we haven't gotten into the why. we know the individual was into cyber gaming in that regard. group gaming. we have a lot of questions out there. we are seeking answers. we have an obligation. we will update you when we find something out. [ inaudible ]
9:24 am
>> border patrol agents that were in the building, they were part of the 19 i talked about. entry came. i can tell you that they were told, just as any other officer was told and others, command staff that came on board, is that the incident commander at the time was believed -- he believed it was a barricaded subject, we had time, no kids at risk. [ inaudible ] >> i wish he was. there's no question -- i will say this right now. every time we have one of these and there's copycats. we need the public -- like we did in 2018, there was a public -- we got two people that were about to shoot up a school or planned to shoot a school.
9:25 am
it's important -- when you get something, just because he sounds like a nut, he may be a nut, it sounds impossible, he may be intended to do, as i read the timeline based on the chats. we need everyone -- we have a threat to life like that, take it seriously and report it. this is tragic. what do you tell the 19 -- the parents of 19 kids or the families of two teachers? [ inaudible ] >> you did not breach the door until 12:50. >> i said it before. first of all, when it comes to an active shooter, you don't have to wait on tactical gear. what i know now, absolutely. it was an active shooter. keep in mind, in the doctrine of
9:26 am
active shooters, you can transition from alert, from active shooter situation to a barricaded subject or a barricaded with hostage subject. but if shooting continues and you have any reason to believe there's individuals alive in there, you have an obligation to move back to an active shooter posture. everybody at the door. >> are you saying those children were no longer at risk? [ inaudible ] >> are those children alive? why was the school resource officer off campus? did uvalde s.w.a.t. respond to the scene? >> uvalde has a part-time s.w.a.t. team. the isd has got -- they have limited officers. you got six? they got six. the independent consolidated independent school district has six officers. they didn't have one at that
9:27 am
location. someone said, what do you tell the parents? bottom line is that -- someone talked about when there's kids in the room, why wasn't there an an try? it was believed, like i said at the time, that the subject was stationary, no risk to other children. from where i'm sitting now, clearly there was kids in the room. clearly they were at risk. by the way, even when you go back to shooting, there may be kids injured, that may have been shot but injured and it's important for life saving purposes to get there and render aid. [ inaudible ] >> where was the resource officer? >> he was not on campus. >> why? >> again, we will have those answers down the road.
9:28 am
[ inaudible ] [ inaudible ] >> first, i want to say that -- the school district officers were there early. there was four of them. they immediately began evacuating the school and did that throughout the process. keep in mind, that was going on. what do i say to the parents? i don't have anything to say other than what happened. we're not here to defend what happened. we're here to report the facts so they have the facts.
9:29 am
>> were family members tased outside the building? >> i don't have information on that. one second. we did review what officers arrived on the scene, what they did and looked at those. [ inaudible ] >> the parents hear you say nothing everything that could have been done as humanly fast that could be done was done. are they owed an apology from somebody, the commander? >> if i thought it would help, i would apologize. let me say this.
9:30 am
when you go back to the timeline, go back -- i'm not defending anything. go back on the timeline, there was hundreds of rounds pumped in in four minutes into the two classrooms. any firing afterwards was sporadic and at the door. belief is there may not be anybody living anymore and that the subject is now trying to keep law enforcement at bay or entice them to come in, suicide by cop. i understand. [ inaudible ] >> i will answer the first one
9:31 am
but why on the second one, the door can lock from the inside. both doors were locked from the inside. the subject came out one time into the hallway, went back in and locked the door. at the time the officers went in, both doors were locked. they got a key from the janitor and used it. >> the first call came in at 12:03 and you breached it at 12:51, how many students died during that time? >> i don't have that answer. [ inaudible ]
9:32 am
>> thanks a lot. forget how i'm doing. what about the parents of those children? forget about me or the officers. we take an oath to protect people. any time something tragic like this happens, we want to know why it happened and if we can do better next time. that's the bottom line. call it like it is. it's tragic. frankly, there shouldn't be anybody -- ideally, we would identify this guy as a suspect and address it before he thought about attacking on the 24th. >> there was a lot of ammunition, a lot of rounds. are there other people you are looking at to arrest that aided him? >> we are looking at other people.
9:33 am
absolutely. anybody he has been in contact. links, association, may have known something. may have been involved in chat room gaming along with him. there's nobody that we're not going to talk to and look at. i can assure you the district attorney is very proactive and very concerned about this. if any evidence we bring to her that someone was an accomplice or didn't do what they should have done, if it meets the probable cause standards, no doubt she will take care of business like she did in 2018 when we had two juveniles plot a capital murder at the school. >> you had 911 calls, the shooter wasn't killed until 12:50. did any of those callers survive? >> yes. i can't tell you that with certainly.
9:34 am
more than one survived. >> how many children died? [ inaudible ] >> windows -- i will go backwards. over here. i will move over here. shot into these windows here. children were vulnerable. [ inaudible ] [ inaudible ]
9:35 am
>> we are looking from a tactical standpoint in terms of looking backwards. certainly, one of the things is, what was the access to 111 and 112? also, there's other access points as well. let me say one thing. one thing i didn't point out is that we have him going into the rooms. right here is a jack and jill rest room between. the classrooms are separated, but they are really connected. you can move back and forth between those two classrooms.
9:36 am
>> was the incident commander receiving the information coming via the 911 calls? if not, why not? >> that question will be answered. i don't have -- i'm not going to share that information right now. i don't have the detailed interview right now. >> did any police officers go in and get their own kids while the parents were outside? >> not that i'm aware of. >> how many children called 911? do you know if any of those children died? >> for two for certain did. those two did not die. >> why was that door still propped open even after shots being fired at the funeral home?
9:37 am
>> bottom line, that back door was propped open. it wasn't supposed to be. it was supposed to be locked. the teacher that went back for her phone and propped it open again, that was an access point the subject used. >> you said in hindsight mistakes were made. you are calling for the fbi to -- >> we welcome the fbi. there's a reason why there's a fbi special agent in charge behind me. they play a vital role. this is about finding facts and reporting facts. this is not about trying to defend or trying to assess or even be hypercritical. it's about the facts. whatever we learn as quick as we can and be as transparent as we can. the media but more importantly the parents and public, citizens of uvalde and texas.
9:38 am
[ inaudible ] >> the chief of police of the school district is the incident commander. it's his school. he is the chief of police. i'm not going to discuss -- it's an ongoing criminal investigation. >> is that teacher being investigated? >> i'm not going to get into that. [ inaudible ] >> the chief of police of the school district. he was convinced that -- again, i will go back and -- he was convinced at the time that there was no more threat to the children and the subject was barricaded and that they had time to organize with the proper equipment to go in.
9:39 am
the subject had hit three officers. hit two officers -- i didn't answer the final question. an agent was grazed. no police officer was seriously injured. [ inaudible ] >> yes. yes, they did. he shot -- i went through the timeline before. he continued to shoot periodically, sporadically. [ inaudible ] i'm sure i went through it. the last time that the shot right before the entry was -- he shot at 12:21. >> at the officers or the children? >> not at the children. we don't know yet. we believe it was at the door is what he fired at.
9:40 am
>> what equipment did law enforcement have on scene? >> we know that the beginning, the agents had three ballistic shields. [ inaudible ] >> i don't know. let's answer the questions. [ inaudible ] >> first of all, texas embraces
9:41 am
and teaches the active shooter doctrine. as long as there's kids and someone's firing, you go to the gun, you find them, you neutralize them. period. there's nuances with going -- transition to a barricaded subject and transitioning to a hostage situation. of course, the decision at the scene was that this is still a barricade subject that did not go back to an active shooter. >> where is the police chief? why isn't he here to take our questions? >> because i'm here to address the latest timeline and facts we know. you are welcome to reach out to him. >> i would like to ask the fbi a question. >> i defer -- you want to take questions? >> how many children were -- >> hold on.
9:42 am
[ inaudible ] [ inaudible ] >> thank you for the question. my name is oliver rich. i'm the special agent in charge of the san antonio division. i want to say i understand there are a lot of questions and a lot of frustration in the public. our heart goes out to the families and victims in this tragedy. i will say our role here remains the same. we are here to assist in this investigation, to provide the support to the community to the best of our ability. we have had 200 people here for over four days. we have people working all across the country to support this community and to support this investigation. we are continuing in that vein.
9:43 am
we have victim specialists working with people in the community. we will continue to do that. if the facts bear out there's a federal nexus, the fbi will conduct and appropriate investigation at that time. for now we continue to support the texas rangers. >> two more questions. >> uvalde police department posted february 2020 that they familiarized themselves with the school and did training to do what they were supposed to do, hoping -- [ inaudible ] >> i don't have the answer to that question. >> president biden will be here sunday. your thoughts on that.
9:44 am
do you have a message? >> welcomed here. this community has been hit hard. the president will be here to recognize the pain and suffering that this community is going through. that's what leadership is. that's why governor abbott is here. leaders go to where the problem is. right now, the problem is in uvalde, texas. >> so ends what is an extraordinary -- a gut-wrenching and perhaps unprecedented press shooting. a more full timeline, one that suggests as phone calls were coming in to 911, while people were begging for help, please send in the police, while they were saying that people with still alive, while two children
9:45 am
we know now called in to 911, one of them we knew, the fourth grader, who died calling 911 on her brand-new cellphone, that as that was happening, a scene commander made a decision at some point that this was no longer an active shooter situation, but in fact a barricaded suspect situation. that it was a wrong decision, we heard, not to try to breach that door. i have with me now two folks who have covered too many of these. frank friglucci and tom winter. it's hard to know where to start, tom winter. i have never -- covering mass shootings since columbine as you have -- heard anything like this. >> the man who heads the texas
9:46 am
department of public safety is, i would say, the greatest failure in modern american law enforcement history as it pertains to an active shooter, period. what he described was an incident commander or a situation where -- he says he doesn't know whether or not this incident commander, the person who is the chief of police for the school district, this is his primary job is the safety of the school, what he says is he made the conscious decision not to enter the classroom while students, as you described children, as you described, were calling 911. on one particular occasion around 12:43 or 12:47, that caller was begging for the police saying, please send police now. earlier than that, at 12:16, a 911 caller told the operator that eight to nine students were still alive. at that point, a member of the law enforcement community was clearly aware that there were children that were alive inside
9:47 am
that classroom. the decision was still not made. we do not know -- he said he didn't know or could not share the information as to whether that information was ultimately relayed to the incident commander who was that chief of police for the independent school district there. what we know is that we had somebody who was armed, a tremendous amount of ammo. we have to discuss that. >> extraordinary. >> 1,657 rounds that he purchased. he said 315 rounds were fired into classrooms at some point. it's almost a miracle that we are not talking about two to three times the amount of students that are dead here. he talked about the tremendous amount of spent magazines that were found there. he continued to fire shots. i want to double-check. 12:21, he had fired shots. this was -- >> apparently on the 911 call at 12:21, you could hear shots fired. >> that's correct. we are talking about somebody who was shooting, began firing
9:48 am
at the school, according to the timeline he put out, at 11:31 a.m. local time. still firing at 12:21 local time. it's not until 12:50 local time that police shot -- fired shots inside that classroom at the suspect. at 12:51, officers were beginning to remove kids from the scene. i think a very important point, mcgraw could not say -- they have not determined whether or not any lives could have been saved if they moved in sooner. i think the quote -- i wrote it down at the time, it's the most important here. which is he says that it was, quote -- he says, quote, it was the wrong decision, as he reviews what happened that day. i don't think it says it any clearer than that. happy to get into more of the timeline but happy to hear frank's thoughts. >> one other quote that stood out for me was the decision made by the scene commander.
9:49 am
this is the quote. the belief is there may not be anyone living anymore. again in spite of the fact that the 911 calls were coming in. i want to bring -- i have more questions for both of you gentlemen. i want to bring in roland gutierrez. no one wants answers more than the families. senator, i know you have been in touch with the families. what are your thoughts as you hear what we just heard at this press conference? >> i'm pretty appalled by all o this failure happened. those little girls and those little boys were calling and telling someone to come help us and the people outside the door didn't go help. i understand, you are scared. you have to go and follow your training. i'm not a police officer. i didn't sign up for that in life. but i have to fix what's going on here, because this should never, ever happen again in this state.
9:50 am
should never, ever happen again. it happens way too much. >> tell me about the conversations that i know you have been having with the families. it's unfathomable what must be going through their minds and hearts right now. knowing what was must be going through their minds and hearts right now. knowing what was going on in the classroom while police officers stayed outside. give us insight into the conversations you've been having? >> i've been very respectful to most families. most people don't want to talk. they're in shock. i want them to know that statele resources who are for them. i've got people in the business community in san antonio that want to the go out and pay for the medical expenses -- or the funeral expenses. you know, we're doing everything we can, but one person said i don't want my child's death to have been in vain. they want some solutions.
9:51 am
she want -- they want to fix these things. this governor is so proud of all of the hardening that they did in 2019. and never once did we effect any kind of gun laws while we kept asking and asking. we just want common sense gun solutions. no child should go out -- no 18-year-old child should be able to access weapons of mass destruction like this. >> senator, stay with us, because when you look at solutions, frank, you have to look at where the failures are, you have to look at how -- there are different kinds of change, right? we thought when we looked at what happened at columbine, entire books have been written about it. we thought we learned a lot about how to deal with active shooter situations. as you listen to this press conference, first of all, obviously, what seems to be a massive communications failure. or, the only other object is that they weren't listening to
9:52 am
the fact that people were calling in which is hard to even fathom. what's your takeaway? >> yeah. this is painful to watch. i know, steve mcgraw, this is painful, he's having to explain another law enforcement agency's failures. and there's no other word for this, of litany of failures. let's something soak in. the length of this press conference that we just listened to was shorter than the length of time those students were with that shooter in that classroom. that's a very long time. and from 11 minutes before sergeant arrives after two of his officers have been shot, to roughly an hour or just under while 911 calls are being made for a janitor to produce keys. the sergeant doesn't have keys, master keys to the school? they can't get them faster.
9:53 am
they have 19 police officers in the hallway, more than enough to breach that door. we're waiting for more information. why because the onsite commander of the school police, decides this is transition to a barricade subject why he thinks there's no longer a threat to the students. why? as you mentioned communications may have totally failed here. did the dispatcher communicate to the school police and her own officers that we have 911 calls active. do we understand, we've heard at least 16 rounds being fired after the police officers had been shot. how in the world has this transitioned to a barricade and negotiation? how can you conclude that the children are no longer at risk with 911 calls are coming in from children. was that communicated? so, sadly, this will be studied as whatnot to do during an
9:54 am
active shooter. >> i know you're looking at your notes, tom, as frank was talking to us, what else stands out to you? >> i think a couple of things. it's helpful to have a diagram today. one of the things that stabbing out to me, they're exploring, looking into other ways they could have breached this. in other words, you've got the shooter fires rounds to officers, perhaps to the door, perhaps through the door. the door's clearly locked. that's been established, has been from early on, one of the few parts that hasn't changed over a couple days. but i think they're looking at possibility are their windows outside. i've got to take a peek at this classroom, i believe the other side of this has windows. was there opportunity to engage this person here. texas -- we looked at their course manual today -- texas' own training manual, they say, even if you have to act alone as a police officer. you have seconds matter, you have to act right away. they say, one of the big
9:55 am
components of fighting an active shooter is trying to engage that person. so, in other words, if he's worried about the police, if he's being fired at by police. if he's firing at police, one thing he's not doing there, he's not firing at kids. and that's the key component of this. and team that teach and reflecting news on reporting on this, actually going out with police when they've done this type of training that's a key component of this. if this person is shooting out at police, they're at not shooting at innocent kids or an office building. that's a key component of it. they're looking at other ways they could have gotten into this classroom. we've talking a significant period of time, 11:35, officers on the scene. >> three officers go in at 11:35. >> exactly. >> a total -- four more, seven total. >> perfectly put. we get up to a total of 19, you would think they could have been in a position and we need to
9:56 am
review kind of that, that sounds like something mcgraw's doing right now. were there other places for officers to go to draw his attention -- again, drawing the attention away from the kids. i want to go through the 911 time i, chris. >> yeah, go ahead. >> 12:03, a caller -- remember, he's firing shot at 11:37. 12:03, a caller called 911 and whisper she's in the classroom. 12:16 -- but there are eight to nine students alive. that's key. 12:19, 12:21, they're hearing three more shots fired. that was the last time shots were believed to have been fired from this person. 12:36, there's a 21-second call. he shot the door, so police are saying he shot the door. and then at 12:43 and 12:47
9:57 am
there's a 911 caller saying please send the police now. 12:50, shots are into the classroom coming from law enforcement. and 12:41, they're starting to pull the teachers and students out of there. that's a period of time. it's much more detailed now. we can clearly see there was a significant period of time before anything happened and i think that frank keyed in on it there -- the communication, we know what 911 knows. now, what was transmitted to the incident commander on the scene, that's going to be crucial. if that incident commander knew that students were alive in there, it is clear, if you look at the protocol that texas has, that the protocol here was not followed. >> and protocol, frankly, that is known all across the country. it's not just texas. >> yeah. you and i can probably recite most states because of what
9:58 am
we've done. >> senator, there's a little girl and her story has been told quite a lot today. who under fire put blood on herself so that the shooter would think she was dead. and the common sense and, frankly, presence of mind that that little girl had in the middle of a situation none of us can put ourselves into really is such a startling contrast to what we just heard of what happened. so, my question for you is, in the coming hours, in the coming days, immediately, what needs to get done? what questions need to get answered? what do you need to see so that you can look these families in the face and say, we're doing something here?
9:59 am
we're doing something so that the next time one of the smartest people in the room isn't a little girl who's taking blood from her friend and putting it on herself. the. >> there was a failure at every step here. in this incident. 19 officers at 12:03, look, i get it. you're scared. but those little kids were devastatingly scared. they messed up. in a very, very big way. but let's not forget that the failure is the texas legislature led by greg abbott. he must get us into a special session. we must get back in that building immediately to have -- to address this. every law enforcement that i've spoken to yesterday has agreed with me, that no 18-year-old should have this. every law enforcement agency in texas begged the republicans do
10:00 am
not pass open carry last session. they lobbied us to not pass open carry. every democrat voted against it. and every republican voted for it. nine months ago i was on the floor of the texas senate, and i said, because of this bill, i said because of this bill, kids are going to die. and i never thought it was going to be in my community. and i just saw that video yesterday. i never thought it was going to be in one of my hometowns. in one county in my district. this is horrible. and these people don't do anything about it. and this governor doesn't do anything about it. not a damn thing. i'm sorry. >> senator, do you