us on january 6th. and are continuing to stand up for the truth of our democracy, officer harry dunn, officer daniel hodges, former officer michael fanone, sergeant african nino gonell, officer caroline edwards, who really, really moved us all last night. these guys are heroes. in an era where we are seeing police really not always stand up and do the right thing, especially in places like eovaldi, they did the right thing. thank you, bomani. that is tonight the reidout, all in with chris hayes starts right now. t,>> tonight on all in. >> aware of the rioters chants to hang mike pence, the president responded with this sentiment. quote, maybe our supporters have the right idea. mike pence, quote, deserves it. >> the january six committee tells the world, donald trump led the attempted coup. >> i told him that it was crazy stuff and they were wasting

their time. and it was a great, grave disservice for the country. >> i respect attorney general barr. so, i accepted what he was saying. >> tonight, congressman jamie raskin on the big, new things we learned on night one. and what they say about donald trump's consciousness of guilt. >> we weren't finding anything that would be sufficient to change the results in any of the key states. plus, with the incredible focus on to trump militia groups says about what is to come. >> you say that proud boys members increased after the stand back stand by comment? >> exponentially. i would say tripled, probably. >> and the potential for a lot more, eventually. >> and how trump's propaganda network keeps finding new ways to launder a coup. >> sean hannity wrote, in part, key now --

know more crazy people. >> when all in starts right now -- >> good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. the country still processing the testimony from last night's inaugural primetime hearing of the january 6th committee. we learned a lot last night, which we will take you through this hour. one major takeaway something we have been repeating on the show for more than a year. donald trump attempted a coup. that was the front page above the fold headline of the new york times today. the newspaper of record. you can read a similar sentiment on front pages of papers across the country. the washington post went with, panel, pins blame on trump. the orlando sentinel's front page reads, january 6th panel pins plot on trump. the colorado springs gazette went with panel points finger at trump. even in red alaska, the anchorage daily news implicitly blamed the ex president with an arresting headline, quote, an

attempted coup. we have known the contours of donald trump's coup attempt for sometime. while many assumed we would get powerful new images from the insurrection itself, like the ones you are seeing on your screen right now, there was a sense of trepidation. i think, partly borne of what happened with the mueller report, that after a year of leaks and countless tell-all books about the final days of the trump administration, there might be just nothing left for the committee to reveal. needless to say, that was not the case. in fact, people across the country tuned in in huge, surprisingly huge numbers. at least, 20 million people watched the two-hour hearing last night. that's the nielsen numbers. for context, that's on par with events like sunday night football games or the macy's thanksgiving day parade. that's big america watches kind of stuff. and the hearing also delivered in terms of what it broadcast. we on this show -- i've been covering the insurrection, its aftermath about as closely as anyone in the media -- and there were still multiple,

multiple brand-new revelations last night that took us, here on all in, our staff, by surprise. we were lacking the whole time. is that new? do we know that? have we seen that before? there was the news that trump campaign lawyer, named alice cannon told chief of staff mark meadows back in november that in november, trump's claims of election fraud were bogus. >> i remember the call with mr. meadows, where mr. meadows was asking me when i was finding and if i was finding anything. i remember sharing with him that we weren't finding anything that would be sufficient to change the results in any of the key states. >> what was that conversation? >> probably in november. mid to late november. i think it was before my child was born. >> [inaudible]

meadows [inaudible] that information. >> i believe the words he used was, so, there is no there there. >> there is no they are there, in mid to late november, from mark meadows. that is new. but knowing that fact did not stop meadows from pushing trump's big lie in public and in private for months as he helped enable the coup. >> the committee also revealed brand-new testimony from trump attorney general bill barr and the presidents own daughter ivanka, who both said they did not believe that trump won the election. >> i made it clear i did not agree with the idea of saying that the election was stolen and putting out this stuff, which i told the president was bs. i didn't want to be a part of it. if you can't live in a world where the incumbent administration stays in power based on its view, and supported by specific evidence, that the -- that there was fraud in the election. >> and your perspective about the election, when attorney general barr made that statement? >> it affected my perspective.

i respect attorney general barr. so, i accepted what he was saying. >> yeah. well, both those bits of testimony, completely new. that was the daughter of the ex president of the united states saying she agreed with the attorney general bill barr, that her dad's claims of a stolen election were all bs. today, on his weird, off grand social media website, trump attacked bill barr and his own daughter, ivanka. quote, ivanka trump was not involved, and looking at, or stuck being election results. she had long since checked out and was, in my opinion, and we try to be respectful to bill barr and -- he sucked. >> even though attorney general bill barr and ivanka knew the election was not stolen, we should keep in mind, they never used platform so forcefully say the election was free and fair. in fact, barr's resignation letter insidious ember of 2020. in that letter he endorsed the investigation into fraud he now admits was bs! before last night, we have gotten contemporaneous reporting that barr's own doj

staff was concerned about trump's coup attempt. the last night the committee revealed exactly what trump son-in-law jarred thought of all the lawyers threatening to quit. >> jarred, are you aware of instances where pat cipollone threatened to resign? >> i kind of -- like i said, my interest in that time was trying to get as many pardons done. and i know that he was always -- him in the team were saying, oh, we are going to resign, we are not going to be here if this or that happens. i kind of took it up to just be whining, to be honest with you. >> again, that was new. jared kushner just whining, oh -- there is a coup happening, i tuned them all out, i couldn't. it's funny that kushner mentions his work on pardons there, because another big, big revelation -- another one of those, wait, a second, do we know that? we did know that. there was a multiple, multiple republican congressman, inclusive period pennsylvania,

who sought white house pardons for their role in trying to, well, we think -- overthrow a free and fair election. >> as you will see, representative perry contacted the white house in the weeks after january 6th to seek a presidential pardon. multiple other republican congressman also sought presidential pardons for their roles in attempting to overturn the 2020 election. now perry said today that that was a lie. i think he called it a soulless lie. i mean, i guess we will find out, right? i think we are going to get to the bottom of it. i'm no lawyer, but it seems like he would probably only seek a pardon if you think you are going to be charged with a crime or did something wrong. the committee did not just reveal brand new information. it also fleshed out previously reported incidents, like the meeting which precipitated the now infamous trump tweet, where he invited supporters to a while today on in d.c. on january 6th. >> on december 18th, 2020, a

group including general michael flynn, sydney powell, rudy giuliani and others visited the white house. they stayed late into the evening. we know that the group discussed a number of dramatic steps, including having the military seize voting machines and potentially re-run elections. you will also hear that president trump met with a group alone for a period of time. before white house lawyers and other staff discovered the group was there and rushed to intervene. a little more than an hour after is powell, general flynn and the others quietly left the white house, president trump sent the tweet on the screen now, telling people to come to washington on january 6th, be there, he instructed them. we'll be wild. >> -- also provided new perspective on of ensuring the insurrection, like, for instance, the

chairman of the joint chiefs of staff testified that vice president mike pence, who was actively under siege in the capital capitol, was, we think, basically, it appears, was running the country at the time. >> two or three calls with vice president pence. [inaudible] very explicit, very direct, unambiguous [inaudible] no question about that. >> and i can get you the exact quote, i guess, from some of our records. but he was very animated, very direct, very firm. >> by contrast, here is general milley's description of his conversation with president trump's chief of staff, mark meadows, on january 6th. >> he said, we have to kill the narrative that the vice president is making all the decisions. >> golly gee, where were that narrative come from?

the reason pence was making all the decisions is because trump steadfastly refused to stop the insurrection. it was what he wanted to happen, which we already knew from past reporting. what congresswoman cheney laid it out perfectly and with this new detail. >> president trump believed his supporters at the capitol -- and i quote, -- doing what they should be doing. this is what he told his staff as they pleaded with him to call off the mob, to instruct his supporters to leave. you will hear testimony that, quote, the president did not really want to put anything out calling off the riot. or asking his supporters to leave. you will hear that president trump was yelling and, quote, really angry at advisers who told him he needed to be doing something more. and aware of the rioters chants to hang mike pence, the president responded with this sentiment. quote, maybe our supporters

have the right idea. mike pence, quote, deserves it. >> that may mean [inaudible] up. the president said his own vice president deserved to be lynched by the mob. because he would not go through with a plot to steal the election. that is a summary of what we learned from one night of these hearings. i suspect there is still more we will learn. danya perry is a former new york state deputy attorney general and federal prosecutor. she coauthored a brookings institution paper titled, trump on trial, a guide to the january 6th hearings in the quest of criminality. and ari melber is msnbc chief legal correspondent and host of the beat every day at 6 pm. they both join me now. it's great to have you here. thank you very much. we were here last night, ari, digesting this. but we've had a bit of time to sort of go back through -- what is your sort of take away today with a little bit of perspective on what we saw last

night. >> what you walked through their is critical. because this is ultimately about violence in overthrowing the government. not what technical statutes say. and the violence you just ended with was striking -- it's not about partisanship or how high-ranking you are. it's simply about the fact that donald trump, according to people around him, contemporaneous evidence, supported violence and wanted people killed. as you said, that's the testimony. he cannot tweet, i guess, is the opposite of tweeting, would he post now, saying bill barr sucks -- that sort of his rebuttal, telling that he is more concerned about, again, family dynamics than bill barr, then the largely -- allegation that he was directly staging a coup and rooting for violence. the other thing i found came through last night and i think you made a very important point that yes, we all follow the news, people watching in this abc watching these, but 20 million people is a lot of folks who don't usually watch the news that night. and they are being reminded or seeing evidence for the first time, the depth of it, that these people were willing to attack armed police.

is there any doubt they would have attacked and killed unarmed members of congress. the vice president does have his own security detail. but if they would have found these members in either party, they would have stopped them to death, they would've beat them to death. that was the whole point. they said it, they meant it, they proved their violence. and they proved it in a way, their defiance. because they went [inaudible] many of those officers showed restraint. did not use deadly weapons, which is more common, we've seen in many other protests that involve non-white people. so, all of that hangs over this. it's not just about the law and the constitution, that matters. it's also american seeing, this is the violent coup they wanted. >> right. and the idea that, like, this was a coup foment by the president as the take away, i thought, was very important. but it also is the case, tanya, and part of the reason i want to have you here is that i really found that the thing that you wrote very useful for bookings, you guys cowrote. because it's a very clear to me that if liz cheney,

particularly, but others, are thinking, in the statutory criminal u.s. code terms, you know, this is something, the potential -- crimes that you have talked about. and one of the things that you talk about there is the essence of a conspiracy, is an agreement to commit an unlawful act. -- specifically, further that objective. the defendant need only know the essential nature of the plan but the court -- be committed, not every detail. i was thinking about that as i was watching them establish, in that first part of the cheney argument, he knew, he knew, he knew. >> yeah, liz cheney was prosecutorial in her opening statement. she was methodical, deliberate, crisp. and she really gave the overview of what it would take to establish the elements of that crime. she actually ticked off -- there were some, you know, she was dropping bread crumbs, i think, for folks like me, what years you were kind of in the

know but really more for merrick garland, no doubt. >> yep. she >> uses terms like corruptly influenced or obstructed an official proceeding. and she talks about specific criminal intent. so, yeah, she's giving a presentation to the american watching public. she's also got an audience of one, i believe. and that's the attorney general. >> that point about corruptly left out at me to. in violation of the law -- she said about, plainly, don't transactions many times -- and the broader idea here of the kind of plot, ari, which again, i think, you are right that the 20 million he saw -- here is the way i feel. i think people's impressions of what happened january 6th is that things got out of control. like -- and yesterday seemed to lay out to me, something that you and i have both been reporting on was, this wasn't the plan going sideways. this was the plan. >> right.

and a plan with a multi pronged strategy. sometimes when people ask for advice they say, how should i plan my career? and i always say, a plan is shooting at one thing and a strategy is multiple ways to do something even if one door closes. >> right. it was a good [inaudible] exercise in that respect. >> they had a strategy with multiple doors. >> correct. you >> talked about this last night in our coverage. these appear mike pence one way or another. that's one way to do the certification. send it back to the states by obstructing the official proceedings. cheney's legal language, right? accrued enough lawmakers to say that some states were so formerly contested that the election has not been, quote unquote, certified. that's the sweep, a football term for a coup. all of these different strategies show you that there was more than one thing going on that was designed to get to the place for donald trump either stays in power past the 20th or the whole thing is much

more contested, quote unquote, and goes back to the courts, then it should have. >> do you think -- i guess my question is, having worked in the federal prosecutors office -- i mean, again, this is -- i mean, you can't think of a hotter, polarizing, scary thing, to be around if you are a federal prosecutor. like, we are going to indict a former president for a coup. but that is a lot of what centers around this. i'm not just saying that. it's just so evident in cheney's presentation. the committee is finding that they clearly think that that's the case. >> absolutely. that was a clear take away. >> very clear. >> chairman thompson said it right off the bat. this was not a spontaneous riot. this was a multi pronged, multi faceted long time in the making conspiracy. liz cheney called it -- i quibble with a characterization --

but a sophistication -- it was a little ham-handed. it was a little bungled. but yes, i'm sure, frightening for doj or any prosecutor to look at something, this profile and the level of polarization and politicization -- on the other hand, that is what prosecutors are supposed to do. >> yep. >> they are supposed to look dispassionately and clearly at the evidence in front of them. and liz cheney, in particular, laid it out very clearly and systematically last night. >> in a sentence, if indicting a former president were in fathom-able or an possible, richard nixon would not have -- stepped it apart. -- >> did you do the question rap video thing? >> so funny you say this! we did not, we did not! [laughs] >> i was like, who in the world

has ever produced our melber beat? i'm getting that one. i'm not even going to bring it up. >> we debated it and the seriousness of the time we head -- >> trick daddy, i'm a thug, stop being greedy. , yada yada yada,. we >> didn't do it! >> all right, danya perry, ari melber, thank you both. appreciate it. we learned all of that from just one hearing, so if last night was any indicated, there's a lot that the committee has in store for the next few weeks. i will talk to congressman jamie raskin about the strategy for that one and where the hearings go from here. ings go from here. she's in austin between a dog named klaus and her favorite shade of green. it's actually salem clover. and you can find her right now on upwork.com when the world is your workforce, finding the perfect project manager, designer, developer, or whomever you may need... tends to fall right into place. find top-rated talent who can start today on upwork.com this...

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demanded that mike pence do wasn't just wrong. it was illegal and it was unconstitutional. you will hear this in great detail from the vice president's former general counsel. witnesses in these hearings will explain how the former vice president and his staff informed president trump over and over again that what he was pressuring mike pence to do was illegal. >> last night, the january 6th committee held its first hearing on the attack on our democracy. who is the first hearing of seven, which are expected to be scattered over the next weeks. the next hearing, if you want to put this in your calendar, will be on monday, 10 am eastern, with live coverage here and special analysis in this hour of everything we've learned. so, definitely tune in then. joining me now is a member of that committee, committee congressman jamie raskin, a democrat of maryland, who also served as lead impeachment manager for donald trump's

second impeachment. congressman raskin, good to have you on. i think going in yesterday, i was wrestling with, like, what is the genre of this thing? what does this look like? what does it sound like? what is it? and so i always impressed, honestly, at a craft level by why you presented last night. how did the committee think about it? what did they think the hearings are? what are you trying to do in them? >> well, one thing we are trying to do is to change peoples concept and understanding of what a hearing is. because for the last several years, based on trump's gop, a hearing has just been members coming in and then engaging in polemical combat and fighting each other. and engaging in ad hominem insults -- so, we have a real bipartisan committee, in a sense that we are all together. we have a common purpose. we are trying to draw on

everybody's best talents. we are brainstorming together. and we are trying to make progress. that means we don't have to divide the time up in a way that it's a debating to society. but we divide the time up in such a way that we focus on arriving at the truth. imagine if we could have hearings like this on climate change or about gun violence, where we are actually out there trying to solve the problem, rather than just denounced the other side. of course, i'm being charitable. because i don't think the majority is responsible for that. in any event, we play into it. it would be great if we could get beyond that and move to a different concept of what a hearing is, that it's related to getting the truth, getting the facts and then pragmatic responses to the problems that we encounter. >> were you aware on the committee what was new? what were revelations? when you played, for instance -- i'm going to play this, the campaign data worker who is talking about a call. i think it was actually a lawyer, technically. but someone who is working on

the data side of it. this was a really creeping piece of sound, which i want to play for you and get your response to, about how much you guys were aware of what was new to us on the outside. take a listen. >> i remember the call with mr. meadows where mr. meadows was asking me, if i was finding anything. when i was finding. i remember sharing with him that we weren't finding anything that would be sufficient to change the results in any of the key states. >> when was that conversation? >> probably november, mid to late november. i think it was before my child was born. >> what was mr. meadows reaction to that information? >> i believe the words he used were, so there is no there there? >> you knew we didn't know that, right? this is a big revelation about

the timeline of when this information was being communicated internally, at the very top, that the lie was a lie. >> well, the truth has this power in investigations like this. because things that seemed obscure or shadowy before suddenly become clear when you hear lots and lots of people talking about it. and we had over 1000 witnesses come in and freely talk to us about what was going on. and certain things just achieved a kristalina kristie line clarity. one was nobody bought the big lie. the attorney general of the united states, put it, bs -- they all understood it. there was no there there. it was complete nonsense. it was a joke. you are going to find lots of people commenting on it and the republicans are not even challenging that anymore. also, everybody accepted that donald trump was engaged in a

sequence of activities to try to vanquish and overthrow joe biden's lawful majority in the electoral college. everybody just accepted that an everybody talks about it and the different methods that were used. and then finally, everybody understood completely that this mass crowd was influenced by domestic violent extremist groups that got to the head of it and right to the heart of it. and they were activated and incited and exhorted by all of donald trump's tweets and battlefield instructions along the way, over twitter. we are going to be able to reconstruct the whole thing and tell the story. so, the street fighting and the inside political coup come together in an explosive way on january 6th. >> that first point in all we saw, all we saw was -- we see trump talking, we see powell, we see giuliani. we see the other lawyers. all the people on the inside

who are like, this is bs, we don't see them. but they talk to you! right? that was the other big part of it. it's like, there's a bunch of people around who are like, absolutely not. we haven't gotten to hear them. and if i can editorialize, -- i'm looking forward to reading through those [inaudible] to read what they had to say. we will watch more on monday, very much looking forward to. it congressman jamie raskin, thank you very much. >> you bet. >> still to come, the committees calculated decision to focus much of the first hearing on the involvement of, as you hear the congressman say, those right-wing gangs, those militia groups. why that matters, what it sets up for the rest of the hearings, next. rings, next

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many directions the january 6th committee could have gone with their opening hearing, they chose to focus on the sensuality of pro trump right-wing gangs like the oath keepers and the proud boys, teeing up those groups and the relationship to trump in a way we just haven't seen before, like in this exhibit they play during the hearing. >> what do you want to call? them give me a name, give me a name. >> white supremacist -- proud boys -- >> proud boys? stand back and stand by. >> after he made this comment, enrique terry, then chairman of the proud boys, said on parlor, standing by sir. during our investigation, we learned that this comment during the presidential debate actually led to an increase in membership from the proud boys. >> would you say that proud boys members increased after

the stand up, stand by, comment? >> exponentially. i would say, tripled, probably. with the potential for a lot, more eventually. >> did you ever so on the stand back, stand by merchandise? >> one of the vendors on my page actually beat me to it. but i wish i would have. i wish i would have made a stand back, stand by shirt. >> on december 19th, president trump tweeted about the january 6th rally and told attendees, be there, will be wild. many of the witnesses that we've interviewed were inspired by the presidents call and came to d.c. for january 6th. the extremists, they took it a step further. they view this tweet as a call to arms. >> throughout the course of the hearing, the committee provided evidence that these groups did not get swept up in the attack. rather, they started the assaults, planned it after donald trump called him to be there. documentarian nick quested documented and provided video -- before donald trump began speaking at the ellipse.

ben collins is an nbc reporter covering extremism in the internet. he joins me now. ben, i know you have been reporting on these groups and, particularly, their actions on the internet for a long time. but were you surprised by how essential they were to last night's presentation? >> if you are going to play this large video that is 15 or 20 minutes long, that shows exactly how they breached the capitol, you can't do it without the proud boys. the proud boys breach the capitol before the massive crowded. they were the people leading the charge. and then afterwards, all these other groups came. i think a really interesting thing that was brought up by nick quested where is this idea that the proud boys and oath keepers talked beforehand. enrique tarrio talked in a garage to the oath keepers beforehand about what was planned for that day. the proud boys were infantrymen. there were the people on the front of the line. they were the people there to break through the line. but afterwards, the people with walkie talkies and plans and

ideas and maps and a q r l, the quick response force, back in a hotel across the river -- so, look, if you are going to say this was an insurrection, you are going to show that this was a massive, staged coup, then you have to show the people who were staging that coup. and there were a couple of armed militias who had strategically, at first, disarm themselves [inaudible] capitol. >> one thing i have been thinking about, and i would love to get your response to -- why would you bring a documentary filmmaker? these are not people who are completely naive about up second about the law. we know testimony that they left weapons in virginia. we know tarrio had [inaudible] nick because he had arms he was trying to sell. they were aware of this. and yet they've got this documentary in their. how do you square that? >> chris, what is that quote from all the presidents men?

these guys just aren't very smart and things get out of hand. that's really with all of these people -- people think the proud boys have been around for a while. they haven't been. they are five years old, barely. they are barely a group. and they are based on -- their name is based on an aladdin quote. this did not begin as a serious group of people. but then they got seriously aggrieved, very quickly in the run up to the election and shortly after the election, where they realize their path to power, their path to what they thought was the [inaudible] community was waning. they had to get pretty serious pretty quickly. they turned to a street gang for, at the time, the president of the united states. that's what happened here. i don't think they are geniuses, chris. i don't think this is what was going on here. they were previously very fame hungry people looking for new members to their little group. and then, very quickly, it got very serious. and that documentarian was their, nick quested, he was there, to see that shift. >> what effect do you think this has --

the legal ramifications, the hearings -- on those faces of extremism as they exist today? >> they have moved on, chris. the idea that they are singularly focused on defending president trump or ex president trump, that is not the point of these groups anymore. they are back to the idea of being a menacing street gang and they want to get in the way of people that have become pariahs to them. so, they are hugely and deeply into this anti-trans panic going on right now. if you go to their pages, they are not talking about january 6th. they are talking about lgbtq groups and pride month and places to go for that. they are looking for a leader who is more into that sort of thing. and they are open. they don't necessarily need it to be donald trump to give them directions anymore, like he did during that debate a few years ago. they are looking for anyone who is willing to ratchet up the rhetoric and maybe lead to violence. >> all right, ben collins, thank you very much. appreciate it.

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of course, as you can see there in the center, it is fox news. earlier this week, the network announced they would not be carrying the human life, and frankly, the reason is obvious. the truth of what happened on january six, that a mob, x by trump, violently tried to overturn the election, is both defensible, and embarrassing for them personally. multiple fox news hosts were in communication with the white house that very day. and last night, they went to great lengths, not just to avoid airing the hearing, and to counter program, but you get everything in their power to make sure their viewers were shielded from the brutal truth about the violent coup that donald trump fomented. first of all, they didn't take any commercial breaks for the entire two hours when the hearing was taking place. i know a little bit about this, the reason you would not take a commercial break is because you do not want your viewers to have a chance to click over to another channel, to see what's going on. you want to keep them with you the whole time. now, it's one thing to skip commercial breaks, during breaking news, or say during a

live hearing, but last night, fox news eliminated two hours of commercial breaks at the cost of i don't know how much money, thousands of dollars, all to keep their viewers eyes away from the truth. that was airing on every other news networks in the country. and they went even further than that, okay? everyone else was watching tv last night, while they were seeing the horrific footage, of a proud boys, using a shield to break a window, so the mob can stream into the building, that was obviously too much for fox news to show. watch what they do here instead. tucker carlson is interviewing a republican congressional candidate from washington. and another box on the right there, showing these wide camera angles from the back and far side of the hearing room. they named this deliberate choice, so you can't really see who's talking, or what's happening. but when the video up on that screen starts to get violent, that's right before the proud boys smashes into that window, look, right there. that does not happen by accident. someone made that decision,

even in a box. they do not want their viewers to see that. and of course, because some fox news employees are part of the investigation, it was likely they would be featured in the committee's presentation. so what do they do one less cheney, for instance, start the attacks that sean hannity sent to the white house press secretary the day after the insurrection? >> sean hannity wrote in part, key now, no more crazy people, no more stolen election top. yes, impeachment and 25th amendment all real. many people will quit. >> that happened right in the middle of tucker carlson bragging about it was the only one protecting america from propaganda, watch what happens when fox news -- embarrassment on air, doing a model about how he was defeating a group or something, showing all the other networks who are covering the hearing, or the committee puts up the text between the 9 pm host and the white house strategizing are on the coup in its aftermath, bye-bye hannity.

there you go. great work control room. the director was -- these granular second by second program decisions were not made without effort, planning and coordination. fox news made those choices to keep images of the violent coup that donald trump fomented away from their viewers eyes. and even their own standards, it was a level of propaganda, i think, surpasses everything i've ever seen from them. but will the fox news propaganda be enough? that's next. that's next. just stop. go for a run. go for 10 runs! run a marathon. instead, start small. with nicorette. which can lead to something big. start stopping with nicorette.

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hearing last night on almost any channel on planet earth, you are on the attack on the capital's real attempted coup, clinton coordinated effort to change the control of the presidency in this nation. and there was lots of evidence to that effect. but if you happen to switch the channel, and tuned to fox news, you definitely got the complete opposite of that. >> a coup is a serious effort to replace the government by an

organized group, who has that purpose. this was a mob. it was a riot. the real coup is an effort to occupy the government, and to change who controls washington. there is no evidence of anything like a coup here. >> there's quite a bit. charles blow says the new york times opinion columnist, writes about politics, public opinion, social justice, and he joins me now. i gotta say, i mean, obviously, you and i are both in media. and there's a certain wide spectrum of different kinds of media. there's like opinion media. you know, there's people on the right writings that i read. but what they did last night, down to the second cutting away, it was truly a level of propaganda that i have not encountered before. >> he has, you know, there is a range, as you say. but you can't put fox in the range anymore. i just don't believe so. i did journalism my entire professional career, 30 years,

i've seen the rise of opinion journalism. i just don't know how this could fit into anything that we would call journalism. what we have learned during the trump years, and particularly during the rest of this hearing, the level of coordination that is, you know, kind of off the charts. i never would have thought, even fox, maybe call me naive, but the idea that, you know, running things passed president, you are texting, saying this is going to destroy which we have built, that's what those texts say. it's not just his legacy, but what we have built. that is just an extraordinary thing, and the tragedy of it is that there are millions, and millions, and millions of americans out there who cannot discern that this is actually not true. they see news on the screen, they make things that think a little wacky, but they believe it's the truth floating around and that may leo. and that is a tragedy here, because that is what has cost us, or is costing us our

democracy. >> it's a great point. there's two levels here, which is the evidence being presented, as evidence of collaboration, of unity of purpose, between the network and trump's, that is just, like, nothing i think that exists anywhere else. again, lauren ingraham saying, the president needs to tell people in the capital, this is hurting all of us. charitably, all of us, america, but probably us at fox news, and also the president. destroying everything you have accomplished. like, there is that. and then, there is the fact that they have to cover that up. they, then, have to double down by hiding that from their viewers. >> yes, and have new -- single is a serious attempt, as if the people roaming the halls, looking for nancy pelosi, setting up gallons outside trying to vice president, if they have found, where are they gonna say? oh, just joking. we're not in a serious school. we're just in a make believe coup. what is the even talking about?

whether or not the coup was successful is not a markup or whether it was a coup. >> that's right. >> it's not the marker of whether it was an attempted coup. it absolutely was. there were people running through -- we still have to stop and process that. there are people, who broke into the capital of the united states, and ran through that building. but, ran through that, buildings looking for specific members of congress. it is just an extraordinary thing. that is an attempted coup. there is no precedent for what happened on january 6th. >> and part of, part of why i think, i mean there's a desperation here, right? the idea that, you know, all sorts of networks show all kinds of things. and there is that the gaza hearings where clinton testify that everyone gary that. there's no sense that we have

to protect people from it. it is what it is, right? people watching make their own decisions. but the idea that you have to cut down to the second level, i think it only works, right? if you are totally confident that the universal law knowledge of your viewers associated, tight, that they're not gonna see it somewhere else. and get mad at you. or you know what i mean? it's in some ways just both desperation and confidence, embedded in that decision. >> right, and tragedy. because there are echo chambers. and this is a sailed echo chamber. there are people who are watching fox news, or watching nothing else. or if they're watching something else, they watch news naps, or they listen to conservative talk radio. but people are not venturing far field of their comfort zones these days, and that's hurting everybody. i actually sometimes listened to fox. it's insane to me, you know. sometimes the things being said,

or the framing of stories, you know, i know the facts of the stories, i'm like, how could you frame it that way? so, you can see how people can be led astray by the framing and also the content of what's happening on that channel. and they are sure that their viewers are not watching other news programs. >> charles blow, always a pleasure to talk to you. thank you for making time for us tonight. appreciate it. that is all in on this friday night. msnbc's starts right now with ari melber. who is just sitting right here. good evening, ari. >> yeah, great to see, you chris. and thanks to everyone at home for joining us. the investigation into january 6th is yielding information most people did not know about january 6th. like, how long before this capital capitol was attacked and before president trump even spoke that day, which was how some viewed how that day was going to be about in time for speech, and a protest. before all of that, these proud boys, the white nationalist paramilitary group that