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tv   MSNBC Prime  MSNBC  June 10, 2022 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT

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thanks for staying up late and have a good weekend. d weekend. the investigation into january 6th is yielding information most people did not know about january 6th, like how long before the capitol was attacked and before president trump even spoke that day, which was how some viewed what that day was going to be about in time for his speech and a protest. before all of that, these proud boys, the white nationalist paramilitary group that trump shouted out during the debate -- they were already, in those early hours, doing more than preparing for a speech that day. they had a specific operational plan that morning. and a filmmaker embedded with
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them saw that and recorded it. as we begin this hour of msnbc tonight, and we dig into what's important on what transpired during the week and all the buildup to the january 6th hearings reaching the investigative findings stage, it's important to listen to what that star witness, the embedded filmmaker, told us. because that's why he was one of the star witnesses. that's why 20 million people were subjected to hearing exactly what he said last night. >> we met up with the proud boys somewhere around 10:30 am and they are starting to walk down the mall, easterly in a direction towards the capitol. there was a large contingent, more than i expected. and i was confused, to a certain extent, why we were
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walking away from the president's speech. because that's what i felt we were there to cover. >> that's what he was there to cover. that's what many people would have thought. that there was a different plan. committee chair bennie thompson -- the testimony and other evidence to present some key findings here. >> they weren't there for president trump's speech. we know this because they left that area to march toward the capitol before the speech began. they walked around the capitol that morning. i'm concerned this allowed them to see what defenses were in place and where weaknesses might be. the proud boys timed their attack to the moments before the start of the joint session in the capitol, which is also where president trump directed the angry mob. quote, we fight like hell, end quote. he told them, before sending them down pennsylvania avenue
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right to where the proud boys gathered and where [inaudible] you were filming essential question is whether the attack on the capitol was coordinated and planned. what you witnessed is what a coordinated and planned efforts would look like. when a coordinated and planned effort would look like. and the committee has receipts. the newly-released video, which shows some of what happened that morning, the furtive meetings, the morning march to the capitol and around the capital, the recognizance to locate the weak points the chairman discussed. because they were less protected. they may not have been the most iconic parts of the capitol where people who were more less organized might have naturally gathered and where might have been more capitol police. there was the peace circle, entrance, though, where barriers were overrun. and the first of the crowd arrived, getting there. while trump was wrapping up the speech.
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these hearings, which have now begun were not a replay of the horrific day we lived through. they were the product of investigative findings based on 1000 plus interviews and a ton of evidence that actually expand the understanding of what happened that day. not a rerun but a deepening, so that people really get why that happened in the first place. because remember, a lot of people watching live thought, aren't these protected areas? wouldn't it be hard to do this? there was even talk at first on line of weather somehow the police were letting them in. because it was so unthinkable in so many ways that, well, even very excited speech attendees or rally attendees would just be able to do this. and that's why this work of this committee actually does answer some of those questions. the findings suggest it was not a rally out of control. nor some motion all riot. the findings of video evidence and testimony shows this
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planned premeditated attack on the capitol to overthrow the transfer of power, led by paramilitary groups, instigated by trump, they did the heavy lifting. but also backed by, yes, the violent mob, willing to join in with the stacks and organized attacks and specific operational goals -- find the ballots, storm certain offices. and as you heard the chant, openly target the assassination of certain officials. >> you will also hear about lots to commit seditious conspiracy on january 6th. a crime to find in our laws as conspiring to overthrow, put down or destroy by force the government of the united states. or to oppose by force the authority thereof. multiple members of two groups, the oath keepers and the proud boys, have been charged with this crime for their involvement in the events leading up to and on january 6th. some have pled guilty.
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the attack on our capitol was not a spontaneous riot. on the morning of january 6th, president donald trump's intention was to remain president of the united states, despite the lawful outcome of the 2020 election. and in violation of his constitutional obligation to relinquish power. over multiple months, donald trump oversaw and coordinated a sophisticated seven-part plan to overturn the presidential election and prevent the transfer of presidential power. >> trump's intent was to remain in office. not another trumpian publicity stunt, not more cloud chasing on the internet. but a real, actual coup. and the committee evidence suggests he intended to stay in office, literally, and the day was the culmination of the plan to try to make that happen. the fact that they might have
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been bad at it or there were other defenses or it was a sloppy coup -- none of that is a defense. that's just a statement about criminal competence, if you buy the committee's findings. investigators also present the case that trump knew that everything he was saying about election fraud was bs, as bill barr put it. he knew he lost the election, according to the evidence. >> i had three discussions with the president that i can recall. one was on november 23rd, one was on december 1st. and one was on december 14th. and i've been through the given take of those discussions. and in that context i made it clear i did not agree with the idea of saying the election was stolen, and putting out that stuff, which i told the president was bs. >> how did that affect your perspective about the election when attorney general barr made that statement? >> it affected my perspective. i respect attorney general bill barr.
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so, i accepted what he was saying. >> i was in the oval office. and at some point in the conversation, matt oczkowski, the lead data person, was brought on and i remember he delivered to the president in pretty blunt terms that he was going to lose. >> and that was based on, mr. miller, matt and the data team's assessment of the county by county, state by state results as reported? >> that's correct. >> i remember the call with mr. meadows where mr. meadows was asking me what i was finding, if i was finding anything. i remember sharing with him that we weren't finding anything that would be sufficient to change the results in any of the key states.
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>> and what was mr. meadows'reaction to that information? >> i believe the words he used were, so there's no there there. >> president trump ignored the rulings of our nation's courts. he ignored his own campaign leadership his, white house staff, many republican state officials, ignored the department of justice and the department of homeland security. president trump invested millions of dollars of campaign funds, purposely spreading false information, running ads he knew were false. and convincing millions of americans that the election was corrupt. and that he was the true president. as you will see, this misinformation campaign provoked the violence on january 6th. >> there you have it. those are mostly republicans there, as witnesses in the case of liz cheney -- as a member of the committee. today, trump stands accused of leading a coup attempt, failing
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to issue any orders to protect the capitol under and attack, corruptly trying to overthrow an election, fomenting violence, and musing about welcoming the murder of his vice president. that's a lot, even for whatever, even for fill in the blank. so how is he responding? well, trump zeroed in today on his daughter accepting bill barr's view that trump had lost the election, claiming she was checked out, and adding, at the end, if you read at the bottom there, that bill barr, quote, sucked. now, even briefly, just saying that response, reinforces what we all remember that donald trump was like. and leslie petty, self obsessed and able to almost always missed the mark. the legal implications here are broader, while he focuses on family drama, just think about what he's accused of. and think about the committee bringing together testimony from these people around him. i emphasize this, because it's
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not automatic. but it is damning, this is about facts and findings, and they are drawn, largely, not exclusively, but largely from his own aides, his own family, as you saw there. people that he hired, who shared at least a large part of his ideological or political project, or whatever you want to call it, people who agreed with what trump wanted to do, when he was lawfully elected the first time. in other words, their fellow travelers of just about everything. but they are under oath, recounting what he said and did, leading into this. and that damning account is that he knew he lost, and he was plotting to stay in power, despite that, and he was welcoming violence along the way, and throughout and after it actually happened and transpired, he continue to welcome that. investigators reach a live audience in about 20 million people last night.
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if you watched some of it, you are not alone, and you are not just accompanied by the traditional news viewing part of our populace. many millions more saw this live. and then, once something like that happens, more people are able to discuss. it's something we know about information and social change, a lot more people discussing it today than they otherwise would have. 20 million people have seen the facts. and this committees foundation, for making a wider case, and in upcoming hearings, that trump was a leader of a plot to steal the election, to try to end democracy. and if the committee can prove that, or come close and prove it in front of the audience of millions, or anybody who's willing to reckon with the actual facts. and if the committee can do that in public, with the public evidence to say nothing of any other secret evidence that is still before that parallel justice department grand jury, assembled in washington, then ultimately this will be about more than establishing facts,
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which itself is part of the purpose of these types of probes. it will also raise the question of the justice department have an obligation to act. it has been a long week. busy for many people, including our next guest. virginia congresswoman elaine gloria is a member of the january 6th committee. thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> because this was dealing with findings and evidence, what, if anything, do you believe the first hearing last night proved? >> i think that they stood out a lot, with the very first video that we showed from the former attorney general barr. and it established something very clearly and very early on. the former president knew that he lost. and if that's the going assumption for all his for their actions, i think that that is an under layman for the fact that, all the things that he carried out, in order to try
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to stay in office, we're done with bad intentions and -- from the beginning, to undermine the american people about the results of the election. >> the vice chair of your committee, cheney, talked about a sort of seven part or seven plank plan. the committees also shown things that lead in related to the sixth, but we are not as in wide public view. is there any way for you to share, estimate, how many parts of the government did donald trump attempt to enlist in what was called last night, a premeditated attempted coup? >> i think we are all familiar with his quote about, just leave it to the republican congressman. we know he attempted to or actually did apply an extreme amount of pressure on the former vice president. attempting to change the outcome of the results, as liz cheney mentioned, in one of our hearings. we will talk about the department of justice and how there was a potential move underfoot to replace people and
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acting attorney general. and the hearings will lay out a lot of information. i look at it as though he tried to pull every lever of government that he could, that he possibly had an ability to influence, in order to change the outcome of the election and stay in office. >> you mentioned as well the, doj, the former acting attorney general who is in for barr, is going to face this committee. what will that do next week? >> i think that discussion about the department of justice will lay out, essentially, you know, how dangerous this was, and you know, one thing i keep reflecting back on is that, if it weren't for the right people in the right places at particular points in time, people at the department of justice, the former vice president, who actually did the right thing, then the outcome of all of this could've been very different. so, i think -- >> what could that have been? >> what if he had been successful at this coup? what if he had actually been
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successful at pulling the right lever in order to get their result that he wanted and he sought for this coordinated plan, and essentially, attack that culminated with the right right on january 6th? >> the committee also surfaced this new testimony about vice president pence being clear, and discussing the use of the national guard, and the protection of the capitol. did he have that authority at that time? while the president was still acting as a lawful president the united states, until the 20th? >> there was no action that came out at the white house. and i think that will be clear through the hearings that we have later on. it was 187 minutes that the president essentially sat in the dining room off of the oval office and one would expect the commander-in-chief to make those calls, to make sure that
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action is being taken in the department of defense, to get the national guard, to coordinate with the mayor of washington d.c.. all of those things, and one we clearly expect that from someone in that role. i think, in a vacuum, the vice president not hearing or knowing otherwise, and not even hearing from the president during that time, he got on the phone and did what leaders do. and he reached out to all of those people to make sure action was being taken. >> very interesting all around. we know we will be hearing from you and other committee members on the way this has been parceled out. so, we look forward to that. congresswoman and january 6th committee member elaine luria thanks for making time tonight. >> thank you. >> appreciate it. we have a lot more to get you on a busy friday night, including luka at the actual documented racist origins of one of the groups that january 6th investigators say were leading the attack on the capitol. and some special guests are coming up. stay with us. stay with us but, at upwork, we found her. she's in prague between the ideal cup of coffee
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boys alleges that they planned, quote, to oppose, by force the authority of the government of the united states. and according to the department of justice, on january 6th, 2021, the defendants directed, mobilized and led members of the crowd onto the capitol ground and into the capital. >> last night, the january six committee explained to more than 19 million viewers what happened, according to the evidence, on january 6th. the committee put trump at the center of this plot they also
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pointed, specifically, to these two whites from six groups are unable to attack the proud boys and the oath keepers they were the people on the front lines of ideas like this, leading the charge, showing what they believed was possible and all criminal trespassing. everyone on your screen was caught on tape red-handed breaking the law. committee showing how those groups landed and coordinated the attack. one using a military style stack formation that helped breach one of the entry through the capitol. for that reason, several members of the proud boys including its current leader, have been charged with seditious conspiracy, including new charges this past week. this came five months after the members of the oath keepers were charged with seditious conspiracy along the same lines. the committee, arguing the trump called the extremist groups of the capitol, that he summoned the mob, and he assembled them up, and quote, lit the flame of the attack. based for these groups, and their years of menacing, including working with trump's inner circle figures like roger stone, you can actually see the
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proud boys and the oath keepers had been circling around this link of right-wing, so-called vigilante justice, and more direct appeals to violence, in what have been the combat government of the united states in the trump administration and all this coming together. but supremacist militia groups in american history have not typically face sedition charges very often. this is a big deal. it is a legal rarity. and it would appear in a very direct way that donald trump was the catalyst. as a side note, groups like the oath keepers claim to try to hold the government accountable. that's one of their talking points. and yet here they were, aligned with the incumbent government, to overthrow the election, the very thing that, in a democracy, does hold the government accountable. given that cheney was talking about them lighting the flame, let's look a little deeper at the proud boys tonight. this goes beyond some of the news here aspects, there are
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tremendous specks we saw last night into the history. it shows how we got here. the proud boys of the more recent group. they were actually just established in 2016, by gavin mcinnis, who's known for his links to vice media, which he helped create. he described the group as western chauvinists. and initially it was sometimes seen as a kind of performative or trolling activity until a really short order of time. and in a few years, according to something quite physical, real and menacing. there he was back in 2018, talking about membership in the group with an nbc reporter. >> we only have one criteria, and that is, you accept the west is the best. you have to be biologically male. but you accept the west is the best. >> mcginiss's pledge for the group, that every member is expected to recite upon joining is, quote, i'm western chauvinist, and i refuse to
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apologize for creating the modern world, and quote. you can see, it's a sort of a slightly more modern trolling version of other white supremacist trump's about civilization and order, and creating something that no other people could somehow create. and in the same year, the group shared a video of roger stone, we're setting that slogan. stone, though, to be as precise as possible, as publicly asserted that he is not a member of the group. >> i am roger stone. i'm a western chauvinist. i refuse to apologize for creating the modern world. >> thank you, roger. the proud boys started mobilizing in support of right-wing figures, and made making more public appearances, after they were protesting and clashing during the 2017 speech, that mcinnis gave at new york university. 11 were arrested. there were fights. it was a lot of mayhem. again, it was at a time where people were trying to figure out what this was all about, and whether the so-called group
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was a real organization, or more of as some sort of a set of stunts. then, there were speakers with group figures like and colder and milo in our police. and makeshift security for certain speakers. and the proud boys -- something quite serious, they ultimately fatal charlottesville rally to quote, unite the right. 2018, they were showing up at a nancy pelosi, when miami in miami security had to coat her to safety, with proud boys members screaming, yelling she was a blanking communist. by 2020, it turned this into a sort of pattern, going where the people were to try to apparently foment clashes, if not outright violence. they were going to blm protests they were doing this in a way that was very inciting lets. be clear -- you can show up anywhere and talk.
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but as the footage attests, some of this is starting to look like they want to do more than talk. the current leader of the group was sense last year for burning a stolen blm flag and a group evolved much more into a white supremacist male fraternity. stone, who said he's not a member, said he began to align them for security at certain events. so, when you take this all together, and that history, and the trump link, you see why a group that might have started trying to make a point or just be controversial, ultimately became a part of something that, at least according to prosecutors, it's one of the most serious crimes on the books, seditious conspiracy, in an assault at the capitol. customizing your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. if anyone objects to this marriage... (emu squawks) kevin, no! not today. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪
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live claritin clear. donald trump was at the center
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of this conspiracy. and ultimately, donald trump, the president of the united states, spurred a mob of domestic enemies of the constitution, to march down the capitol and subvert american democracy. >> president trump summoned the mob, assembled the mob, and lit the flame of this attack. >> first primetime january six hearing, laying the foundation for a specific case against trump. the foundation is something you build on, the committee is trying to do that monday,
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bearing down on how exactly trump knew he actually lost. then there will be evidence going inside the doj about what would have been the mother of all saturday massacres, as trump tried to oust the acting ag, resisting efforts to have the doj help with the coup three former officials will testify. on thursday, the committee will focus on efforts to pressure pence. you all remember that. a differing school feature evidence on trump's efforts to overturn the election through state level means. representative kinzinger, the other republican member beside cheney, says the evidence together at these hearings, will change history. the watergate hearings are famously about what nixon knew, and when he knew it. these hearings are going from what trump knew, to what he tried to get government officials to do, doj to congress, say legislatures, astead of increasingly desperate effort to stay in office. now, most of those officials
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box to or outright resisted, because crews are, among other things, a team's work. donald trump, is very good at teamwork. and that may be why, as mentioned, the committee has so many witnesses, including trump aides, and plenty of republicans, who were out here, testifying in detail under oath to his illicit goals in demands. joining us now is professor melissa murray from new york law school. coast of strict scrutiny podcast, and is an educator, and we believe somewhat more -- skill that teamwork. thanks for joining us on this friday night. >> thanks for having me, ari. >> we just laid out where the committee is headed, including some of the theory of the case, walk us through your thoughts on that. >> i think the big thing here is they are very much trying to show the number was on trump at the center of all these things machinations, this wasn't inadvertent or coincidental. this was something he wanted to
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be at the center of. indeed it was something he was orchestrating or directing others to orchestrate on his behalf. so, this really goes to the question of mental state, and that's critical. if there is going to be criminal liability going forward. and of course, the committee cancer term and whether or not there was a prosecution against donald trump, that's only for the doj to determine. but if the department of justice is going to go forward, it has to be secure in the knowledge that there is evidence to support the idea that not only did donald trump do certain things, or failed to do certain things that he was supposed to do, but that he had the mental state to orchestrate this kind of coup against a lawful government. and so, this is all incredibly critical. and even if there is no criminal prosecution, all of this evidence regarding his mental state, and what he knew, and at what time, could be critically important, if there is going to be civil lawsuits against trump and anyone in that inner circle. the kinds of civil lawsuits that we saw successfully prosecuted in charlottesville,
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virginia, for example, against organizers of unite the right. >> i am also curious what you thought of the way they presented this last night, which appears to be a template. rachel and i discussed this a little bit last night. because everyone is accustomed to the traditional hearings, first of all, when they're not select committees, you have the partisan back and forth. second of all, everyone gets their time. and this format is really putting 1 to 2 members of the committee in the league, a limited number of witnesses live in them really drawing on the evidentiary cream, if you want to be a huge nerd with me. the cream of hundreds of depositions, and not making the public sit through that, which again, is different from traditional hearings. so, i'm curious, as someone who really is versed in the presentation of the law, what is your thought about that last night, because it's so different than most hearings? >> well, that's literally
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covered with books. obviously, i'm happy to learn that with you. >> and you have a lot of books behind you. >> i like big books and i cannot lie. -- >> good shout out. >> this is obviously highly choreographed and by design. this is very similar to what they did for the second impeachment, where there were a lot of multi media presentations this time to sort of link all of this together. here, though, i think it's necessary to have this kind of highly choreographed presentation, rather than the back and forth we are used to. because they need to tell a story that brings together some really disparate pieces of this puzzle and shows how there all inextricably intertwined and linked together. again, the usual sort of partisan back and forth, it's not really the case here, because there are only two republicans on this committee. so, there isn't the necessary back and forth. but it goes for the kind of uninterrupted flow. they have an uninterrupted
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moment to present their case, presented the way they want to present it, without any rebuttal. they can actually lay the case out for the american people, show how all these disparate pieces of evidence linked together, and do so in a way that's compelling for generation that frankly is not the kind of generation that we saw in watergate, the sort of used to sitting in front of the tv for hours, watching these sorts of things. this is a social media i did fit once to see fast-paced interesting and very dynamic clips all put together. and they're doing that. so, they've got a lot of blow back for having it be produced, but i don't really know that they had any other option. >> yeah, and i would say that that blowback is only on the internal sort of eastern seaboard obsessive discussion range. i don't think most of the 19 million americans watching live i've, were like, oh, i read an axios the committee hired. i think they are going to say, was this a clear story or? not as we have emphasized, if it is done right, that's what so people can have the facts.
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but they decide about that should be up to them in a democracy. and so i've got beschloss on standby. i'm going to let you go into your weekend. professor murray, good to see you as always. >> thank you. >> absolutely. when we come back, if journalism is a rough draft, and what do we get out of the second draft leads history? as mentioned, historian michael beschloss and obama advisor chai komanduri after this. fter this. allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! flonase all good. ♪ got my hair got my head ♪ introducing new one a day multi+. a complete multivitamin plus an extra boost of support
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for copd, ask your doctor about breztri. breztri gives you better breathing, symptom improvement, and helps prevent flare-ups. breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. it is not for asthma. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition... ...or high blood pressure before taking it. don't take breztri more than prescribed. breztri may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling,... ...problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. if you have copd, ask your doctor about breztri. allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from ...problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! flonase all good. in 1862, when american citizens had taken up arms against this
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country, congress adopted a new oath to help make sure no person who had supported the rebellion could hold a position of public trust. therefore, for congress persons and the united states federal government employees were required, for the first time, to swear an oath to defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. that oath was put to test on january 6th, 2021. >> foreign and domestic. from the constitution's founding to the oath history we heard there, there's always the awareness that democracy and safety can come in peril from our own fellow americans. chairman thompson was referencing that last night. it may have went right by some people, because a lot happened. but it was quite a striking moment.
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and historically accurate one. i know that many view as a symbolic gesture that people do when they become members of congress. we are showing many of those from recent times, actually a version of the ironclad oath that was used after the civil war. there was nothing symbolic about it. it was actually kind of a litmus test at the time, so rebels could not truthfully swear to that oath, had they attacked the country. and they could be barred the country or barred from voting voting or charged with perjury, if there were some who did do those things and were trying to sneak through the the oath by claiming otherwise. many people don't think practically about that oath of the presidents oath to defend the country from enemies foreign and domestic. never in our over 200 year history have people, even with the great and deep differences in our nation, had to wonder whether the president would become an enemy, whether the president would observe, for example, an armed attack on the seat of government, via from
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foreign terrorists or domestic -- as i've emphasized here tonight -- and that that president would do nothing, because some would not be enemies to the eyes of the president. as the chairman said, january 6th tested all of this. the question is, what do we do with history as a road map here, given that we have been tested before? we have had armed rebellion before. and how did the story of these hearings continue to confer some historical weight as they go on through the next weeks? for that conversation, we have a bit of the past and a bit of the present. michael beschloss is nbc news'presidential historian. there is no better guest to talk about that history of rebellion. and we have former obama adviser chai komanduri on the rhetorical and communication challenges of holding the nation's attention in the coming hearings. michael, i begin with you on your thoughts on that bit of history the chairman shared and
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how it applies. >> i am so glad he mentioned it and i'm so glad you mentioned it, ari. here's a case where what people were saying at the end of the civil war -- people from the north, the victious side -- said we've won the civil war. but we are in danger. because without an oath like this that will keep these people out of positions of public trust, who is to say that old confederate senators will not run for the senate again and get elected? and they will use their purchase in the senate to try to have another civil war? and another offense against the federal government, just as happened in fort sumter, with the firing on fort sumter of 1861. and they were absolutely right. because, as you both know, there was a confederate president whose name was jefferson davis. davis was a former senator from mississippi. and davis, after 1865 -- it took him a couple of years
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but he began giving speeches. and what did davis say? davis said, the south never lost the civil war. actually, we won, but it was stolen from us. and we've got to do something to get that back. who does that remind you of? >> powerful. and well put. and chai, we wanted to bring you into the segment, because you've been very thoughtful about how you do effective communication or governing within extreme environments. one of the challenges of standing up to extremism is that you can start to look extreme. in the dawn of the trump era, some people who were genuinely concerned, initially warnings were written off as histrionic. people can judge for themselves whether the warnings were borne out. trump left the way he left office. and we see that. what do you see as a challenge for democrats and how they are navigating it in trying to wake everyone up in these hearings without having it sound like every hearing is, oh my god, a
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five alarm fire? in a way that reduces the significance? how do you navigate that? >> yeah. i think, quite frankly, democrats have nailed it. it's been a perfect ten in terms of the execution of this hearing. i think the way they packaged this, the way they have really tried to tell stories -- there's a big story about what happened -- donald trump said x, and y happened. that's the way the hearing is proceeding. that's crucial going forward, in terms of the story of this hearing. i do think the challenge, actually, will not be for democrats, that hearing. the challenge will be what comes after the hearing. there, i think history gives us two very different examples. so, i will bring up watergate. when the hearing is concluded, parts of impeachment were adopted. there was a definite follow-through. there were definite action items. barry goldwater went to the white house and that was his three.
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the other one i bring up is iran-contra. iran-contra was a situation where democrats had the hearings. there were no action items, there was really no follow-up. there was no argument that ronald reagan and the reagan administration needs to be held accountable. oliver north swept in and appealed to conservative tribalism, which is exactly what tucker carlson is doing now. the result was, the hearings had no impact. a year later, voters went to the polls, didn't even think about the iran contra scandal, when they reelected the reagan administration to effectively stay in power. those action items, that follow, up what follows these hearings, i would argue, is going to be more crucial towards the outcome of how this will be remembered than the hearings themselves. i think the hearings themselves have been tremendous. great moments -- last night was tremendous. it was a world historical moment, i think, that she had last night. i think ivanka trump -- that was one of the most talked about moments, really, today on social media. what she said about her father
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and then with her father, today, said about her -- but i think it's what comes after the hearings where the challenges lie. >> yeah. all fair points. michael? >> this was a fraud against democracy. i thought it was evident on the day it happened. i was just looking back. i did a tweet at 2:47 pm during the attacks saying, this is a coup d'état by the president of the united states. it's not that i was so depression. it's because you began to see who could benefit and what trump said about people marching to the capital. so, this we sort of hiding in plain sight. but the point is that this was done by a president who is happy to dismantle our system. and he was doing it, we are increasingly finding, arm in arm with people who can be fairly described as domestic terrorists, some of the groups you are talking about earlier this hour. and more than that, if it had succeeded -- let's just think about that for
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a moment. the 6th of january, historically. we might not have this program to be saying what we think on the airwaves right now. where would military be in the society? would there be martial law? with their b invocation of the insurrection act? where there have been a move by president donald trump, who is holding on to a second term that he didn't deserve, to jail his enemies? we don't know any of that. but that's what's at stake. unless we identify those guilty, punish those guilty and, as chai we're saying, passed reform laws to make sure doesn't happen again, all of this will in this country live under the sort of damocles. >> thank you both, chai komanduri and michael beschloss. i hope people are listening. when we come back, the biden administration, actually reversing something trump wanted. and boy, way till you hear the details. i will see you on the other side.
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gold coated seatbelts on a 757. the gilded fixtures -- if that's not a give away, you are looking at trump force one, which is what some were calling trump's personal plane. what's interesting is that the gilded accents are not unique to that plane. trump's failed, airline trump shuttle, had gold plated hardware, just one of the several stylist decisions that made no sense. there were marble sinks too heavy for the aircraft, so trump shuttle had to opt for faux marble. the former president doesn't have the best track record, objectively speaking, when it comes to these type of plane calls. we have further evidence of that today. because when trump was in office, he wanted to redesign the replacement for air force one was a color scheme that was very similar to his personal plane -- red white and dark blue -- taking over the iconic light blue and gold design. well, today, amidst other
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admittedly more important things, the biden administration is scrapping the paint scheme officially, saying no to donald trump's decoration skills and keeping the classic design that has worked since jfk was president, which is much of the plane era. officials say the paint scheme is not being considered because it could drive additional engineering time and cost. the darker blue would've made the inside of the plane too hot and then required other modifications to cool the planes parts. that is what we call a rough landing. all right, that does it for this hour of msnbc. it's another big week, though, starting monday. there is live coverage all day, of the full hearing, you can see the line up there, including our special coverage. i will see you. you can always find me, 6: 00pm eastern, you can find me online, at ari melber or at and you can find -- covering the hearings -- that six eastern. and then rachel will be here, most importantly you might say along with chris and lawrence and everyone covering the
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hearings monday night. speaking of lawrence o'donnell -- well, i'm handing it over to him. good evening, lawrence. evening, la wrence >> good evening, ari. and thank you for, i don't know, it might be the best news of the week, but they're keeping the colors of air force one. and no, thank you, by the way, for reminding me of the trump shuttle, which i flew on a few times. >> did you? >> i'll never forget the first time stepping into the -- >> what did you -- was a taught inside? >> the fake gold faucets in the restroom of the airplane was just so perfectly trumpian. but you know, because it was a struggling airline, and kind of going out of business from the start, the fears were really low. you know, desperately trying to get people like me could barely afford to fly at the time on to the trump shuttle. it was, you know, it was pure donald trump. >> memories. >> yeah. thanks, ari. >> peace.


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