(soft music) so, if for any reason you missed any of the january 6th select committee this morning or you want to see us talk about it, rachel maddow and joy reid and the whole gang and i will all come together again at 8:00 tonight, but the committee member today who led the questioning will be with us. plus one of the witnesses. all starts in two hours at 8:00 p.m. eastern. thank you so much for letting all of us into your homes during these truly extraordinary times. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. >> i'll see uh-uh soon. i only have an insignificant question. between now and then, are you focusing on coffee or food? >> i'm going to have dinner with my family, so that would be curtain number two, food. >> food and coffee both

necessary. >> great, great. >> i know where you are, so i know where to find you. i'll see you soon. thank you as always. our top story the damning testimony at today's second january 6th hearing. much of it led with highlights by trump attorney general bill barr. >> i was somewhat demoralized, because i thought, boy, if he really believes this stuff, he has lost contact with -- with -- he's become detached from reality. and when i went into this and would, you know, tell him how crazy some of these allegations were -- there was never -- there was never an indication of interest in what the actual facts were. i saw absolutely zero basis for the allegations. i told him it was -- it was crazy stuff. completely bogus and silly and

usually based on complete misinformation. they were idiotic claims. they obviously were influencing a lot of people, member of the public. complete nonsense. >> wow. and remember, everything you just heard is from a source that was not only very loyal to trump whenever he felt he could be throughout his tenure, but also really in a sense the top legal expert at that time. the public getting these firsthand accounts from inside the white house, which remember, you would not otherwise hear this if not for this investigation, if not for this committee as subpoena power. mr. barr also recounting a tense meeting after trump was declared the loser. this was in late november. >> i came over to meet with the president in the oval office, and meadows and cipollone were there. it was a little -- getting awkward, because obviously he had lost the election. the president said there had been major fraud and that as

soon as the facts were out, the results of the election would be reversed. how long is he going to carry on with this stolen election stuff? meadows had caught up with me and -- leaving the office and caught up with me and said that -- he said, look, i think that he's becoming more realistic and knows that there's a limit to how far we can take this. and jared said, yeah, we're working on this. we're working on it. >> there's a limit to how far he can take this. they're working on it. well, whether they believe that or not, he exceeded the limit. we had an insurrection. and the work, trying to get trump to stop lying and stoppage tating towards the coup that many around him were planning that's been proven, the evidence shows kushner failed at working to stop that.

last week was the fist hearing and in many ways it was rifting like a tragic terrible movie, that real video of the attack on the capitol. and today was pretty different. most of the time it's what you would call more just legally riveting. but that's important if you're building a case. so three takeaways before i bring in our exhorts. one, trump knew he lost. that came through over and over in the testimony today. not a debate about the facts, which does happen, but that trump didn't care about the facts at all. he was going with the stolen election claims before the election even ended, which means he was not confused about the tally -- he didn't care about the tally. that goes to a potentially criminal mind state. two, they all told him he lost. it's never fun to have every that you know, everyone you trust, everyone you've hired say over and over you are the loser of this election, especially given what we know about donald trump. but just about everyone from the

campaign to the government really spoke with one voice, and we now know this under oath because they all recounted it. they told him he lost, there's no legal path. all of them, well, with one exception, a new disbarred lawyer. more on him in a moment. he'll get his turn. but i want to stay high level first. third and finally, in some key takeaways. donald trump used election lies to haul in another $250 million from his own supporters for another lie. trump supporters bay tantly misled. they were told their money would go to this election defense fund that would somehow keep trump in office. but here's the thing about putting people under oath. it is quite literally the last stop to address your own lies if you have been lying. the trump's top aides and the highlights released today admitting another lie -- that whole effort was literally just a marketing deception.

>> i don't believe there is actually a fund called the election defense fund. >> didn't they say election defense fund is another marketing tactic? >> yes. >> i'm joined by elie and former deputy general for the state of new york. welcome to both of you. we'll get to giuliani and the other fireworks, but in those key takeaways, what did you see as legally being advanced today? >> as you said, i thought today's testimony was riveting from a legal perspective, particularly -- you know, we heard the big picture the last time, particularly from former attorney general barr. today we got some of the details, some of the nuggets that really make this come alive and that flesh out, you know, the scaffolding that had already

been set. we heard a lot of specifics, as i said, where there's one thing about trump was told over and over, there is no fraud. you lost the election. here he's being told particular instances where the fraud was debunked. and then going out the next day. in one instance barr testified about. and repeating the lie. and so you can detach yourself from reality as barr said, but that's not a legal defense. that is -- it's what's known in the law -- i'm sewer elie will talk about this as well, conscious avoidance, willful blindness, the ostrich defense. all these things where you can

try to stick your head in the sand and ignore what is so obvious. it's not a legal defense that could ever stand up in court. >> and elie, not really fair to ostriches. when you look at it. when you look at what is assembled here, the committee also seems to be showing -- 20 million plus people watched last week. they seem to be trying to show that for all the political polarization in this country, there actually were many trump republicans who did not want to take personal criminal risk to join a coup, who did not actually think this was a good idea. >> eventually, right? like, bill barr was there, and he's all like looking good now because he's using bad words and talking about -- right? but in realtime when we could have used bill barr to stand up there and say, this is complete warfare whatever and that trump has no claim to winning this

election, where was bill barr? >> may i bifurcate that? >> go ahead. >> let's take that second. >> table it. >> first, from a legal analytical perspective, what was the committee doing trying to show just about everyone under oath didn't want to help steal the election, at least when it became untenable. >> we were trying to establish trump's criminal intent. it is important as a legal matter to know that if you are accused of stealing something, tough know that it's not yours. you have to know that you're stealing it. it has to not be an accident. and so what happened today is that we saw barr stepien say to trump, you lost the election. so then when he tries to steal it, he knows they are stealing. the way it works, you have to listen to the evidence that's ginn to you. you can't go, my lawyers and accountant says i have to pay

taxes, but found some wino on the street that i don't have to pay taxes. that's not how it works. it's not going work for trump hiding bin giuliani and sidney powell, powell who said in her own deposition that it was unreasonable for people to take the things that she was saying as fact. so trump can't just go looking for the person who agrees with him. he has to take the best advice available, the best advice available was, you lost, you lost, you lost, and doing anything else is stealing. >> right, and that goes to this under oath conundrum. people say, what is the point of this? sidney powell under oath is really damning evidence against sidney powell not under oath. you mention where you get your advice. the panel stays here. i want to get into more of the newly unveiled key testimony. just like last week, some of the greatest bombshells were highlights from the depositions that range from the deep

internal splits among trump aides, some dubbing themselves team normal to aides testify about giuliani's state of mind. >> was there anyone in that conversation who, in your observation, had had too much to drink? >> giuliani. the mayor was definitely intoxicated, but i did not know his level of intoxication when he spoke with the president, for example. >> i spoke to the president several times that night. >> i remember saying that -- to the best of my memory i was saying we should not go declare victory until we had a better sense of the numbers. >> i think i'm characterized as being part of team normal. >> i told him the stuff his people were shuttling out to the public was [ bleep ]. >> the president's mind was made up. >> are you out of your eff'ing

mind? i said, i only want the hear two words coming out of your mouth from here on -- orderly transition. >> two takeaways there. trump's most loyal defenders, including barr, confronted -- the loss, and the only trump aide willing to go along with election lies was this now disbarred lawyer, giuliani, who aides said could not stay sober on the biggest work night of the campaign, which is election night. testimony on giuliani's kpoks communication might sound like what is known in the law as a mitigation defense. or as t-pain and jamie foxx put it, blame it on the vodka, blame it on the henny, blame it on the al-al-alcohol. with trump's aides thinking no sober minded person thought he had a case, and you would need serious beer goggles or perhaps

henny goggles to think he won an election he so clearly lost. >> one of the ways we know trump doesn't actually believe trump was too drunk to give advice is trump has not brought a case against him. that's what i8d do if i felt like i was being given terrible legal advice by this point i would have turned it around orn giuliani. trump does not do that because he agreed with what giuliani was saying, it's not the legal advice. i can go out tonight and find a drunk guy who thinks that i look like a chippendale's dancer. that doesn't make it so. that's on me, not the drunk guy who thinks i look hot that time. the idea that all of this is going to somehow come down to giuliani's state of intoxication, it does not, at comes down to trump's state of mind listening to drunk

organizers as he's organizing his coup. >> danya, that's why the top lawyer for the evidence being inebriated cuts both ways. not a sentence i ever thought i'd say. to elie points it cuts against the idea this was a valid counsel. seems the committee wanted to use it to show there were no takers were overing throwing the election, no takers for the coup. you pull in the other people, people on the capitol steps, mr. navarro who won't testify. when it came to all the lawyers besides giuliani, all the people whose job was to win, all the aides, there are no takers except this, quote, inebriated individual. how do you square that with what some are talling the t-pain

defense? >> this wasn't a one-time, one-night only misstep or bad advice because of the henny goggles. this was -- there's a through line, and this came out in today's testimony and hearing. it all began, you know, many months before with trump predicting that the only way he would lose would be if the election was rigged, and that continued to that night. it's not advice, it's not counsel, it's not an opinion that he won the election, it's a question of fact. no one had called it, so he's just going in there, making stuff up, and then it didn't end that night, of course. he's still saying the election was rigged. and presumably he's not drunk every time he's saying it. so, this was -- i mean, maybe giuliani. so it's a -- it's a tough defense, and i think one of the lines that's kind of funny but also quite tragic, team norm and

then team clown show or fill in the blank. i don't think he finished what the other team was. >> team henny. >> now we have a name for it. so, again, not a great line of defense. for the former president and his team of enablers. >> we covered more than one item. as promised. i want to thank danya and elie. we have a january 6th investigator on the program live tonight. that's coming up. also, the committee debunking something else. you remove the henny and come up with the costanza defense. at the end of the hour, the push and potential breakthrough on gun safety. john mellencamp is here with us live tonight. stay with us. live tonight stay with us this... is the planning effect. this is how it feels to know you have a wealth plan that covers everything that's important to you. this is what it's like to have a dedicated fidelity advisor looking at your full financial picture. making sure you have the right balance of risk and reward.

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the only way we're going to lose this election is if the election is rigged. remember that. it's the only way we're going to lose this election. >> we can now project that former vice president joe biden has been elected president of the united states. >> the third time has turned out to be to charm. not only the charm, but possibly the most consequential election of our lifetimes. >> donald trump always intended to lie about his loss and try to steal the election. to cheat after the results came in to stage a coup. that is the case these january 6th investigators made today, drawing on evidence like part of the clip i just showed from then president trump speaking in public before election day and testimony about the similar plans he said in private all showing a attempt to lie and steel, as his advisers showed him he was still on track to lose. that was the case on election night and after with all legal

paths closing in more court losses. >> my recommendation was to say that votes were still being counted, it's too early to tell, too early to call the race. >> i remember saying that -- to the best of my memory i was saying that we should not go and declare victory until we had a better sense of the numbers. >> the results were still being counted. it was becoming clear that the race would not be called on election night. >> and trump's lies about the actual vote then morphed into lies about fraud that would reverse everything. aides fact-checking him on that score. >> i essentially said, look, we looked at that allegation, and that allegation was not supported by the evidence. >> eric and pat didn't, you

know -- the group, president included, that none of those allegations than substantiated. >> with regard to georgia, we interviewed the witnesses. there's no suitcases. >> i told him the stuff his people were shoveling out to the public was [ bleep ]. >> at some point all this evidence might seem repetitive or even to sometedious. of course trump was lying. of course he knew he lost, the sayings go. but the committee as trying to build potentially a wider criminal case here, so it's also knocking down potential defenses like that trump somehow really thought he won or believed some reasonable staff input that claimed he won. after a thousand depositions, the committee is spending so much time on this now today because investigators think it's important that trump cannot in any way hide behind a smoke screen of his own asserted

delusion. because the evidence shows he was not deluded. they say he was very much an informed coup blotter. not a goofball b.s.'ing in a coffee shop. they have a prebutt that will predates our current air ram you may call it from an iconic seinfeld episode. the argument being if you truly belief the b.s. you're pushing then maybe technically it's not a lie? >> jerry. just remember -- it's not a lie if you believe it. >> it came to be known as the costanza defense. it's been use in the households and relationships around the country, but today's evidence suggests that on this more serious matter, it is not legally available to trump. is that why the committee bore

down on this point? we turn to neil katyal to discuss a probe that is definitely about something when we back in 60 seconds. ealth. it kills 99% of plaque bacteria and forms an antibacterial shield. try parodontax active gum health mouthwash. you're a one-man stitchwork master. but your staffing plan needs to go up a size. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do.

indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire we're back with former acting solicitor general neal katyal. why does it matter the committee says evidence trump knew to whole time he lost? >> well, you know, ari, i saw you bring up this whole costanza defense this morning in the live hearing, and i thought it was a really good pointu making but of course donald trump is not a "seinfeld" character. maybe he could be in one of the writer his a stroke while writing his lines. i'm pretty sure the only thing they have in common is they don't want to you know their s.a.t. scores and maybe their parents should have hugged them more when they were young. i don't know. but legally i think you're

absolutely right. trump's defense has always been i genuinely believed i won this election, and the testimony today has destroyed that claim. it wasn't from democrats, it was from trump's inner circle, like all those clips you were just showing. bill barr, his campaign manager, others saying that this was wrong, and it becomes then at that point hard, if you're thinking, ari, as i know you are, how's a jury going to evaluate this? should there be a criminal prosecution? when trump ignores basically his entire justice department from bill barr down to the prosecutor in atlanta that trump put in there, b.j. pock, it's hard for trump to say, i was accepting in good faith the allegations of an inebriated rudy giuliani as opposed to all of this other stuff, and that's why i think it was such significant testimony. >> all great points. then when we widen out, neal, people who lived through the whole mueller era remember, were there going to be star

witnesses, many of the trump tactics delayed. don mcgahn was a star witness in the mueller report, but getting him out in front of the world the way you had in the watergate hearings or other witnesses did not happen the way i think people remember that time frame. here, in some ways bill barr today, as more and more of his deposition comes out, is a star witness, which is distinct from his overall record. so we wanted to both show viewers the news, what he said under oath, bad for trump buck also get your views on this wider idea that he did resign in december 2020, and we're getting more of his claims under oath about why, and yet let's look at the official resignation letter, because we do comprehensive news here. first paragraph, he says he appreciates the opportunity to update the president on the voter fraud allegations and they would continue that probe. then he also says donald trump had unprecedented achievements, a historic legacy.

this is a person who, as i mentioned in the mueller probe was using his -- to selective i quote, to interfere with the roger stone sentencing. here's what bill barr was saying, though, today. >> i made it clear i did not agree with the idea of saying the election was stolen and putting out this stuff which i told the president was [ bleep ]. and i can't want to be a part of it, and that's one of the reasons that went into me deciding to leave when i did. >> neal, i want your assessment, having worked in the justice department, to be as fair as possible. there are times when internal concerns are not best air in the public in realtime. this seems like a very abnormal situation where he says he's resigning in part because of this, he's concerned about the president detached from reality. should he have spoken out in some way? >> absolutely. bill barr, i think, is running to try and launder his

reputation like some of the others that are testifying today. but ari, i totally agree with the idea you don't air out your dirty laundry when you're a justice department reversal. but barr did the reverse. in this fawning resignation letter that's like the equivalent of donald trump on january 6th saying to the insurrectionists, go home, we love you. you're very special. that's what the letter reads as. this is the attorney general who basically -- the machinations in the first place. we broke with the longstanding justice department policy that said election claims of fraud should wait until after certification, that you don't do it ongoing, and indeed, the chief of the justice department's election integrity unit resigned because he thought barr was manipulating things. and so many prosecutors voiced their objections at the time. that policy has since on day one of the biden administration been restored, which is a

longstanding policy, administration to administration some it's. so it's too late for barr to say, this is b.s. and so on. he did nothing until he wrote his book. i'm glad he testified. this is really important in establishing that criminal prosecution and indeed trump's wrong doing as a moral matter, as a political matter, as a matter of integrity. so it's great that we're getting this, but you know, this does not make barr any hero of anything like it. >> great to get your perspective, including that tension. neal katyal, thank you. when we come back, we've got updates on multiple stories, including a breakthrough on gun control. protests working, republicans giving some ground. john mellencamp is here, but first, the january 6th panel. what did we learn today, and why did they set up the case this way? we have a member of the committee, a when we're back next. we're back

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he was upstairs. we were kind of on the first floor, so not upstairs. we were with mostly with ivanka and her brothers. >> it was becoming clear that the race could not be called on election night. >> my recommendation was to say that votes were still being counted. >> and did anybody who was a part of that conversation disagree with your message? >> yes. >> who was that? >> the president disagreed with that. >> the president disagreed. we're joined now by january 6th committee member elaine lurri a at a busy time.

thank you for being here. what you think the evidence proved today? >> today what we wanted to show was that president trump knew he lost the election. he was told this by his former attorney general, by he is department of homeland security, his campaign manager, his children, by everyone surrounding him. yet, with that knowledge he continued to go out and on november 4th right after the election, he stood up and told the country he won. and he continues to perpetuate that lie moving forward. and what we're trying to establish in the course of these hearings is to show his wards, his actions led to the violence that we saw on january 6th. as we closed out the hearing you saw some of the people here on january 6th and how it influenced them. they were hear because they believed in this big lie, believed what they were told. and i think it's very clear today work all of the testimony that we heard that the former president knew he lost the

election, act in the bad faith and continued to tell people a lie and that he had won. >> if that's true, will you issue a criminal referral against donald trump? >>, so ari, this is one of those questions it keeps coming up repeatedly, and we know the ruling from judge carter in the eastman case, strong evidence that he broke the law, but what i want to focus on is that, why do we have such a low bar for the president of the united states? 330 million people in this country, and the only thing we're trying to determine is, did he break the law? he has a responsibility under the constitution, the take care clause, to make sure the laws are faithfully executed, and we have shown through our current testimony, and evidence and, will continue to show, he didn't do that, he tried to undermine the laws. 187 minutes he sat there on january 6th. >> what you're discussing, the

perhaps betrayal of oath and legal duties that sounds like an area of the law that's different than committing a crime. should we infer this committee is unlikely to -- to the justice department? >> that's something the committee is working through as we continue to collect evidence and as we present it to the public. there's not a determination made on that, but i can say personally from my own perspective, this man broke the law. he tried to undermine it, and he was the one person responsible for the upholding the laws for the entire country. >> striking. we discussed some of the new evidence we leased, testimonial from the evidence rudy giuliani. take a listen. >> was there anyone in that conversation in our observation that had too much to drink? >> mayor giuliani. the mayor was definitely intoxicated, but i did not know his level of intoxication when he spoke with the president, for

example. >> is the committee offering this evidence chiefly pursuant to mr. giuliani or former president trump? >> well, i think it's both. here you have the president, he's taking bad advice from people who are not sane and thinking logically and providing good advice based soundly on the law, and on top of that, there were numerous witnesses who told us he too much to drink, he was intoxicated, and further more that brings into question the soundness of the advice the president was receiving and we know he was acting off of as he perpetuates this lie. >> let me press you on that a little bit. we understand both. but at the end of the day, if it's primarily mostly the lawyers conduct, that really is more for like a bar disciplinary hearing than an investigation, literally. i guess what i'm asking is the inference that the only person who could agree with donald trump wasn't even of sober mind, on his team, or is that taking it too far?

>> i don't think that's really what we were trying to get across more so than he assembled a group of people who were giving him bad advice, and above that, they were not acting with their key faculties, because a moment before he goat on national tv and told a nation he won an election he lost, he was taking advice from someone who was inebriated. >> appreciate you coming on "the beat." >> thank you. we're going to fit in a break. there's also been a breakthrough on actual gun safety legislation in congress. some people told you it could never happen. at least incrementally, they're wrong. and john mellencamp is my special guest live next. guest l. this is art inspired by real stories of bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place. latuda could make a real difference

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we have understandably been covering this insurrection hearing and new evidence for much of the hour. now we turn to the other big story that's actually quite significant, and i'm going to start it off like this. i'm going to ask you a question. what if it turn out much of what people say about gun control is just wrong? gun advocates insist the current rate of mass shootings deadlier here than anywhere else is inevitable and it's wrong to respond to shootings with proposals. pundits say there are just not votes right now to overcome republican obstruction in the senate, so it's futile to pond to shootings by talking about reform. some liken it to a waste of time and dismiss grassroots activists as naive. they don't know how this work. and after many recent shootings, including the buffalo rampage,

which was the deadliest of the year when it occurred, it's true a protest did not move the senate. but protest is not a single moment in time. it's all about building pressure over time across the nation women know that from history, and just this weekend with everything else going on, protests continuing, and tonight, there's news that there are signs that it's working. pressure bringing over republicans that you see here to a democratic led bipartisan frame work which members say has the votes to pass the senate. some of the items in here do not directly restrict gun sales. there's mental health programs, for example. there's gun control like stronger background checks for folks under 21. the negotiators are hammering out the bill and details. we'll keep reporting on that and try to pin down legislators,

perhaps as guests on the program, about the substance and much is to be determined but tonight with signs the pressure is working we continue z what also been part of our series, not just talking to lawmaker bus talking to people in the clash, from students, victims families and people join this as an ethical cause. and that brings us to a voice known to so many, a rock 'n' roll hall of famer, a star who's been speaking out on this very issue. john mellencamp. ♪ ain't that america, home of the free, yeah ♪ ♪ little pink houses for you and me ♪ ♪ we're all easy targets ♪ ♪ they got pistols in their hands em ♪ >> seems to me they don't like the farmers farming the land, they just don't want them to own their own land. >> john mel mellencamp is here making his "beat" debut.

excite to have you. wish it was for a different reason, but appreciate your work. thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> what do you think is important, sir, that has moved you to work on this issue, and some people out there do listen to you. what do you want to tell them on this issue? >> well, for one thing, you know, i don't know if you're old enough, but i remember when vietnam first started, and it was a conversation on the news. but then when they started showing dead teenagers, people did something about it. and the country united. i think that we need to start showing the carnage of these kids who have died in -- if we don't show it, they're dieing in vain, because they're just going to try to pass more bullshit like they're trying to get

through now. show it. show what a machine gun can do to a child's head. it's your responsibility as a news network. show it. let's who the people what we're talking about. because just to go, oh, 13 kids killed, most people go, well, that happened and poem can say e being insensitive, john. no, this is not the time to be insensitive. murder is not the time to be sensitive. which is exactly, you know, what's happening. make these kids heroes, the same way we looked at heroes in vietnam, the same way we looked at heroes of world war ii. these kids are dying because we don't have proper laws in place. in australia they had the biggest mass murder ever and the government came in and said, all right, that's it. no more guns, and everybody went that sounds reasonable, and they gave up their guns, and it's been like 15 years. no mar mass murders in

australia. coincidence or, you know -- i know that's a big challenge, and i am far to the left, you know, but we -- we need -- people need to turn in their guns. i understand people, you know, liking guns. i've got two kids who like guns, but i have to tell you, when the second amendment was written, they were talking about muskets. they were talking about muskets. >> yeah, that's true. bing, bing, bing, one shot. they had no idea that there would be guns that would go bam, bam, bam, shoot 100 rounds in a minute and people say you can't change. it's the second amendment. it's an amendment. it's already been changed. so don't say you can't change the second amendment. you can change the second amendment. change the damn thing. >> you can argue to your point that justice scalia changed what

was the understanding of the second amendment in the heller decision because up until that moment it had never been understood to identify annoid right. i want you to build on the point that some in the journalistic community and some in the victims' families might disagree with you on but we air things out. you're making a point and you're a storyteller and the stories you've told through your art are the types of truth that connect with people. you think the way that this is being covered to some degree acts to in your view obscure the real truth of the horror of this that people need to face. >> it absolutely does. you know, when walter cronkite got on the news and they started showing 18-year-old kids being slaughtered in vietnam, there was an uprising. just to hear about it and to talk about it and to, you know -- now is not the time to

be sensitive. i mean, i -- murder is not a sensitive topic, you know. if you've got your arm around your buddy that's the time to be sensitive, but, you know, i'm sure that these people, these children who are being slaughtered day after day after day every weekend that they would prefer their kids to be remembered as heroes who, you know, they died for a reason. they changed the laws. they changed -- because i know what this new bill is it's bullshit. these people are connected to the gun lobby, you know, and the guy that you showed a picture of, that guy from texas, you know, he's connected to the gun lobe. nobody wants to mess with the gun lobe. they all want to be elected. they don't care about us. they don't care about those kids, you know. now is not the time for our tears and prayers and good wishes. now is the time for action.

show what a gun will do to a kid's head. show the american people what's really happening and what everybody is so afraid to see, the same way they were afraid to show what was really happening in vietnam. >> yeah. let me ask you before i lose you since you make the vietnam analogy, in full disclosure, i wasn't there, i read, i read about it but i didn't live through it, but that was also a time the culture, what was once called the counterculture really stood up and united and you had a lot of people saying cross-cultures this isn't about politics, there's other issues that people debate. this was a moral issue, you know. it was young people going out and campaigning that eventually got lbj to not seek re-election. it was unheard of when they started. so i'm curious. do you think what we're seeing from people like yourself in arts and in sport, does that matter to potentially convert this issue to a national ethical issue? >> no. yeah, i mean, you know, look,

i'm sure there's people sitting at home saying mellencamp, shut up and sick. i'm sure that's what some people are saying but i don't care, you know. i have a right to speak my mind just like anybody else. what i'm saying is that show what really happened. quit tippy toeing around a very, very sad situation for this country to be in because some senators and some congressmen want to stay involved with, you are know, we have a right to carry arms. if i'm not mistaken, that amendment says to protect against the government. no gun that we can have is going to protect us against a nuclear weapon that the government has if they want to come after us. it's a bullshit thing. >> it refers to a well-regulated militia but it says they are going to protect freedom writ

large. i have to hand it to joe reid. we air all views here, and i'm glad you came on "the beat." >> thank you you. >> more coverages of these hearings. rachel maddow on tonight. coming up next, "the reidout" with joy reid is coming up next. with joy reid is coming up next. this... is the planning effect. this is how it feels to have a dedicated fidelity advisor looking at your full financial picture. this is what it's like to have a comprehensive wealth plan with tax-smart investing strategies designed to help you keep more of what you earn. and set aside more for things like healthcare, or whatever comes down the road. this is "the planning effect" from fidelity. migraine attacks? you can't always avoid triggers like changes in weather.

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