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tv   The January 6th Hearings The House Investigates  MSNBC  June 21, 2022 5:00pm-7:00pm PDT

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-- day four. the former president has lost the reelection. he goes to officials from his own party in states that he lost. tells them to throw out the results. >> you're asking me to do something against my old, and i will not break michael. >> the former presidents personal involvement in
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targeting officials and election workers, in ways that threaten and ruin their lives. >> do you know how it feels to have the president of the united states to target you? >> new evidence unearthed in the investigation about the bizarre forgery scheme, to create fake electors for trump, and how the trump campaign and his lawyers knew it was illegal? >> i said, what would you have me do? he said, just do it, and let the court sort it out. >> evidence on tape of the former presidents direct personal pressure campaign against key low-level officials in georgia. >> whatever you can do, francis. >> and, new testimony about the violence unleashed against the people that the president targeted. >> some people broke into my daughter's home. >> that's, i said close the door, don't open the door for anyone. >> all the records information,
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were offered online. there >> is no where i felt safe, nowhere. >> tonight, member of the investigation who led today's hearing, congressman adam schiff. plus, michigan secretary of state, jocelyn benson. nicole wallace, joy reid, chris hayes, lawrence o'donnell, ari melber, stephanie ruhle, all here for our special primetime recap of today's hearing of the january 6th incident investigation. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> good evening, thanks for being with us tonight. as the january six investigation continues, it's blockbuster series of daytime hearings, we know that not everyone can take two or three hours out of their workday, or school day, to watch live. we have committed here at msnbc, though, that throughout these hearings, we will meet here together each night, to do a primetime recap of what's happened. the evidence that committee presented, the witness testimony, then you knew, the surprises, and today, was a day with a haul bunch of surprises. so, let us just start.
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let us jump right in. i think there is roughly, arguably, four main things the investigators showed us today. we are going to summarize all of them here tonight. now, i will just note at the outset that today's hearing was really tightly organized, really cogent. the life witness testimony was very, very compelling. so, more so than from the other hearings that we have recap for you in these primetime specials, tonight, i will tell you, we've got together a whole bunch of tape from the hearings, just because you don't need that much extra narrative from us, the story really does just kind of tell itself. but again, we're gonna focus on four main points. the first point, i believe, the overall main point of the hearing, was basically to strip away the gaudiness, strip away any euphemism from this kind of anodyne phrase, we often use, to talk about this part of the plot to overthrow the election. the phrase, pressure campaign. it sounds like, you know, maybe
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a letter writing effort, or an advocacy initiative by the president and his supporters. and it's kind of sounds nice. but it sounds severe. it made me even sound civil. it was not. today is the day the investigators showed what they have discovered about the character of the pressure president trump applied to officials in states he lost, to try to get them to falsify the election results, and say he won. we got the character of the pressure, and the presidents direct personal involvement in it. we also got the direct link from that pressure, to violence and threats of violence against the people who were targeted by the president. we also got, i think, deeply affecting testimony about how it ruined their lives. >> if you can convince americans that they cannot trust their own elections, then anytime they lose, it is somehow illegitimate, then what is left but to violence to determine who should govern? when state elections officials refused to stop the count,
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donald trump and his campaign tried to put pressure on them. when state executive officials refused to certify the winner of the states he lost, he applied more pressure. when state legislators refused to go back in the session and appoint trump electors, he amped up the pressure yet again. anyone who got in the way of donald trump's continued hold on power, after he lost the election was the subject of a dangerous and escalating campaign of pressure. this pressure campaign brought angry phone calls and texts, armed protests, intimidation, and all too often, threats of violence, and death. >> the point is this, donald trump did not care about the threats of violence. he did not condemn them. he made no effort to stop them. he went forward with his fake allegations anyway. one more point, i would urge all of those watching today to
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focus on the evidence the committee will present. don't be distracted by politics. this is serious. we cannot let america become a nation of conspiracy theories and thug violence. >> and city councils and town councils, on school boards and election boards, from the congress to the courts, dedicated public servants are leaving their posts because of death threats to them, and to their families. this is not who we are. it must not become who we are. >> congressman adam schiff, who led today's hearing, vice chair of the investigation, liz cheney, laying out that core basic problem, we've got the president, former president when he tried to hold power by illegal and ultimately violent means. that it is a slippery slope and a short one, from illegal means, and coercion, to violence, to a country in which power is held
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by those who can inflict the most violent on their opponents. this is one of the incidents of investigators laid out today, to show how former president trump was willing, and even eager, to escalate from personal cajoling and attempts of persuasion, to bringing threats and intimidation to bear. >> the pressure campaign to get state legislators to go along with a scheme intensified. when president trump invited delegations from michigan and pennsylvania, to the white house. >> either you or speaker chatfield, did you make the point to the president that you are not gonna do anything that violated michigan law. >> i believe we did. whether or not it was those exact words or not, i think the words that i would have more likely used, follow the law. >> nevertheless, the pressure continued. the next day, president trump tweeted, quote, hopefully, the courts and or legislatures will have the courage to do what has to be done, to maintain the integrity of our elections, and
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the united states of america itself. the world is watching. he posted multiple messages on facebook, listing the contact information for state officials, and urging his supporters to contact them, to quote, demand a vote on the certification. in one of those posts, trump disclosed that personal phone number to his millions of followers. >> all i remember is receiving over 4000 text messages in a short period of time, calling to take action. there was loud noise, loud consistent calls of, you know, we heard that the trump folks are calling and asking for changes in the electors, and you guys can do this. well, but they were believing things that were untrue. >> another legislator,
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pennsylvania house speaker, bryan cutler, received daily voicemails from trump's lawyers in the last week of november. >> mister speaker, this is rudy giuliani and jenna ellis. we're calling you together because we'd like to discuss obviously the election, -- >> hello, mister speaker. this is jen alice, and i'm here with mayor giuliani. >> hey, brian. it's rudy. i really have something important to culture attention that i think really changes things. >> cutler felt that the outreach was inappropriate and asked his lawyers to tell rudy giuliani to stop calling. but giuliani continued to reach out. >> i understand you don't want to talk to me now. i just want to bring some facts to attention, and talk to you as a fellow republican. >> on december 30th, trump ally, steve bannon, announced the protest of cutler's home. >> we're getting on the road, and we're going down to color. we're gonna start to going on opposites, and we have to go to their homes, and we're gonna let him know what we think about him. >> there were multiple forecasts, i don't remember the
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exact number. it was at least three, i think, outside of either my district office, or my home, and you are correct, my son, my 15-year-old son was home by himself for the first one. all of my personal information was online. it was my personal email, my personal foul cell phone, my home phone number. in fact, we have to disconnect our home phone for about three days, and it was doing all hours in the night, and would fill up with messages. >> bryan cutler -- >> public pressure on state officials often proved dangerous in the lead up to january 6th. >> [noise] [inaudible] >> what are we gonna do? what can you and i do to the state legislature besides kill him? i'm not advising that, but i mean, what else can you do, right?
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>> the punishment for treason's death. >> the state pressure campaign and the danger posed to state officials in the state capitals around the nation with a dangerous precursor to the violence we saw, on january six that the u.s. capital. >> to that point the, violence and intimidation being directed at trump's targets in the state was a precursor to the january 6th attack in washington, to that point investigators also revealed new information today and, never before seen footage about the same trump supporters, the actual thing people, menacing state officials that trump was targeting, before they menaced the federal officials that he targeted just a few weeks later. >> the select committee has uncovered evidence in the course of our investigation that the stop the steal protests at the state capitals across the country, there were individuals with ties to the
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groups and parties involved in the january 6th attack on the u.s. capitol. one of those incursions took place in the arizona house of representatives building, as you can see, in this footage. this is previously undisclosed video, protesters illegally entering and refusing to leave the building. one of the individuals shown in this video is jacob chansley. perhaps better known as the qanon shaman, this rioter entered the capitol on january 6th, and was photographed leaving a threatening note on the u.s. senate chamber, and was ultimately sentenced to 41 months in prison, after pleading guilty to obstruction of an official proceeding. other protesters who occupied the arizona house of representatives building, included proud boys, men armed with rifles stood just outside the entrance. i understand these protesters
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were calling for you by name, speaker bowers. is that correct? >> that is correct. >> speaker bowers there is a man named rusty bowers was the first witness that today's hearing. he's a conservative republican, a trump supporter, who campaigned for president trump's reelection. nevertheless, he came under intense personal pressure from the president and the presidents lawyers, that he should throw out the results of the election in arizona. rusty bowers is live, a county today of how intense that pressure was, and how he responded to it, and what it is to his life. this sort of jaw dropping testimony, we're gonna play it for you in just a moment. it's really something. before we do that, though, before we move on to that emotion testimony from rusty bowers, i just want to check in to make sure we are absorbing all of this. on these first revelations from investigators, we've got trump, personally, sort of, cajoling and persuading officials that he wants to get to do something that they don't want to do. and then, he personally escalates to direct his supporters to go after them.
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>> what's interesting now is that the committee, this is the fourth hearing, right? >> yeah. >> there are things that are, that don't move. there are blood points that don't move. and two of them are, they lost, they knew he lost. and the other is that all the means for overturning the loss were illegal. it comes up again, and again, and again. all the changes, of what you're talking about, the escalatory tactics, so before the election, they're doing this. he's talking about rigged elections. north carolina tells people to vote twice. all the changes is that the prophecy comes true. he actually loses, and then, he puts on pressure. so he gets eastman to try to overturn it, it puts the fake electors plot in motion, and he starts his pressure. >> you know what? it's interesting. i think a lot of people that i've talked to, and we've all interviewed, have said they didn't think there were gonna be surprised in these hearings. we felt like we know the story. i've been surprised by how much i've been surprised, and actually shock, like, i mean, you know, as you just said, the escalation against pence, which was the previous hearing, that buildup was dramatic. and you really understood, okay,
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this man's life was in danger. he was under threat of being lynched, if you don't do what he was told. but now, you see this filtered all the way out. and i think one of the things that were so effective about this hearing today is that each of the testimony starting with this question. you a conservative republican, you want to trump's win. yes, other than ruby freeman and shaye moss, and so, you establish that they were willing to menace the, to threaten even to kill. and when you're talking about brad raffensperger's daughter who's a widow at home with her kids, then having somebody invaded home. you're talking about shaye moss grandmother, have people beat down harder, and say we are making a citizens arrest. in georgia, a black woman, that sounds like a lynching party. i mean, it was shocking to hear the level of violence that trump was willing to meet out from all the way to pence, all the way down to shaye moss. he wanted violence, anything. this is called fascism. >> well and to that point, one of the occurring things we signed the last, hearing and was on this, hearing i thought
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you're interim there about pressure campaign was really athlete done. that you keep having these interactions where the people on the receiving end of the trump arguments are like, these are bad arguments. people on the trump and, we are not really making arguments. and there they fundamentally keeping like, well sir, i looked at that fact and it doesn't matter. we'll set that argument doesn't scan. that there doesn't work. again, and again, these lawyers saying this. and what you realize almost sort of like this horror movie pinch. they are not trying to persuade you. they are not making arguments to you. they are trying to force you. they are trying to coerce you. they are bullying. you they are threatening you. so you keep having this moments of this kind of like, functionaries small secret of lawyers, that doesn't -- >> i have not seen the evidence. >> that's not what we're doing here dude. the and then it's like where the mob is at your door. and that's when you realize. >> and if you do it, you don't wear the if you don't accept the, resent the mob will be a trigger. >> rachel, one of the things that got name check today was
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the gang that couldn't shoot straight which is jimmy breslin's novel, jimmy wasn't credited, nothing gets never get credited turned into a movie. and it's about an actual gang of gangsters who are bad at it because they are stupid. jimmy basil understood that stupidity runs very high in gang world. rudy giuliani and the piece that we just saw there, where speaker brian color, of pennsylvania, is refusing to take his call. he has made it clear, communicated, through his lawyer, through giuliani, do not calmly. now, he couldn't make it clear, that he is not going to be part of the gang. and again that couldn't shoot straight keeps calling him, not just calling him. leaving, taped recorded both males from rudy giuliani. jimmy breslin won that race in that himself. >> and then they organized a mob to go to. without the pressure campaign by trump and his allies really was not a civil thing. and it did really have
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physically threatening, manifestations, some of which we did not know about until today, that is next, it's like a part of our recap. stay with us. >> one gentleman that had a three bars on his chest, and he had a pistol. and was threatening up my neighbor, not with the pistol, but just vocally. when i saw the gun i knew i had to get close. >> close >> looking at your full financial picture. this is what it's like to have a comprehensive wealth plan with tax-smart investing strategies and set aside more for things like healthcare, or whatever comes down the road. this is "the planning effect" from fidelity.
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ah teach a new kung fu for a smoochie smoochie? hmm? you want to learn kung fu? about it >> thanks again for
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being with us tonight, for this prime time recap of the january six hearing that was held today. we are recapping four main points that was made at today's hearing. the first that we just discussed about the character and the personal nature of the presidents involvement in this pressure on state officials that they needed to throw out election results. the intimidation, and the threats of violence that trump brought to bear. against these officials who he was trying to force to do something, that they didn't want to do. there was extremely compelling life testimony today from one of those officials in particular, rusty bowers, is a conservative republican, he is the speaker of the house in arizona. he today explained how he was pressured personally and relentlessly by trump campaign officials, trump advisers, and the president himself. watch. >> mr. bowers, i understand that after the election, you received a phone call from president trump and rudy
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giuliani, and which to discuss the results of the presidential election in arizona. if you would, tell us about that call, and whether the former president or mr. giuliani race allegations of election fraud. >> thank, you. my wife and i had returned from attending our church meetings, it was on a sunday. we were still in the driveway, and i had received a call from a colleague telling me that the white house was trying to get inside with her, and i. and that she said please, if you get a call, let's try to take this together. immediately, i saw that the white house on my bluetooth was calling, and i took the call, and was asked by, i would presume the operator at the white house, if i would hold for the president, which i did. and mr. giuliani came on first. niceties, then mr. trump,
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president trump then president trump, came on, and we initiated a conversation. >> during that conversation, did you ask mr. giuliani for proof of these allegations or fraud that he was making? >> on multiple occasions, yes. >> and when you asked him for evidence of this, with deede say? >> he said that they did have proof, and i asked him, do you have names? for example, do you have 200,000 illegal immigrants. some large number. fibers ex thousand dead people. et cetera. and i said, do you have their names? yes. will you give them to me? yes. the president interrupted, said give the man when he needs, rudy. and he said i will. and that happened on at least two occasions, that inter change in the conversation. >> so mr. giuliani was claiming the call that there was hundreds of thousands of undocumented people, and thousands of dead people who
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had reportedly voted in the election? >> yes. >> and you asked him for evidence of that? >> i did. >> and did he ever receive, did you ever receive from him that evidence, either during the, call after the call, or to the state? >> never. >> what was the ask during this call. he was making this allegations of fraud, but he had something or a couple of things that they wanted you to do. what were those? >> the ones i remember, were first, the we would hold, that i would allow, an official committee at the capitol, so that they can hear this evidence, and that we can take action thereafter. and i refused. i said, up to that time, the circus i called it the circus, had been brewing. with lots of demonstrations, both at the county center, at the capitol, and other places. and i didn't want to have that
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in the house. i did not feel that the evidence, granted in its absence, merited hearing, and i didn't want to be used as a pawn. if there was some other need that the committee hearing would fall. >> but was a second ask? >> i said, to one and, to what's and the hearing? >> said we have heard, by an official higher up in the republican legislator that there is a legal theory, or a legal ability, in arizona, that you can remove the the electors of president biden and replace them, and we would like to have the illegitimate opportunity, through the committee, to come to that end, and remove that. >> and i said that's totally
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new to me. i've never heard of any such thing. and he pressed that point. and i said look, you are asking me to do something that is counter to my oath when i swore to the constitution, to uphold his. and i also swore to the constitution and the law of the states of arizona, and this is totally foreign as an idea or a theory, to me, and i would never do anything of such magnitude without deep consultation with qualified attorneys, and i said i got some good attorneys. and i'm gonna give you their names. but, you are asking me to do something i guess my oath and i will not break my oath. on more than one occasion throughout all this, that has been brought up, and it is a tenant of my faith, that the constitution is divinely
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inspired. my most basic foundational beliefs. and so for me to do that, because somebody just asked me to? it's four into my very being. i will not do it. >> i will not do it, foreign to my very being. and you can see the tears in his eyes, you can hear the emotion in his voice as he said it. >> now i am mentioning that we are focusing on four main points covered by today hearings. the first as we discussed is how the president himself participated in this pressure on state officials, to throughout the election results, how he himself escalated it, to the point of physical intimidation and threats of violence being directed at those officials. i think that the second main point today, was basically rusty bowers. as a profile encouraged. somebody profoundly, profoundly challenge. and really shoved around. who nevertheless responded, basically, with honor.
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>> it is painful to have brands who have been such a help to me, turn on me with such rancor. i may in the eyes of man, not hold correct opinions or act according to their vision, or convictions. but i do not take this current situation in a light manner, a careful manner, or a vengeful manner. i do not want to be a winner by cheating. >> it's one thing to sort of say that in the abstract, right? to think any of, us that's not how we would respond under pressure, that we wouldn't cave. we would do the right thing just like he did. the hearing today i think, gave life to that being an easy assumption for most of us, i think. by spelling out what it was really like to live through the actual pressure that trump directed at these people. this was not a story. this was not a parable. this was not something that you would imagine yourself as the
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hero in. this is terrifying. from the point of view of rusty powers, that arizona secretary, excuse, me secretary speaker of the house. from braff rosenberger, and from the point of even low-level a election workers themselves. >> after the election, my email, my cell phone, was docs, and saw getting text all over the country, and then eventually, my wife died of getting a text and her typically came in as sexualized attacks. which were disgusting. yes understand that, trisha and i, met in high school. we were married over 40 years now. and so, they started going after her, i think just to probably put pressure on me. once he just quotes or walk away. and so that happened. and then some people broke into my daughter and laws home. and, my son has passed, and she is a widow. has two kids. so we are very concerned about her safety, also. >> and mister secretary, why didn't you just quit and walk
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away? >> because i knew that we had follow the law, we have follow the constitution. and i think sometimes moments require you to stand up and just take the shots. >> a little after lunch, that, a lunchtime, i received a call from the project manager from the demeaning voting systems, who was oddly shaken. not the kind of person that i would assume be that way. she is a -- mit, naval academy, and is very much on the ball with, pretty unflappable. and she informed me about a young contractor they had who had been receiving threats, from a video that had been posted by some human and aunts supporters. and at that point, we had just been stepping at this kind of stop. it was a round of all the time. i didn't take note of it, more than adding to the pile of other stuff that we were having to deal with. and i did pull up to twitter, and i scroll through it. and i saw the young man's name, it was particular tweet that for lack of better word, was --
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put the cables back. a young man's name, very unique name, i believe the first generation american. and, had his name, you committed treason, may god have mercy on yours, all with a slowly twisting gift of a noose. and for lack of a better word, i lost it. i just got, irate. my boss was with me at the time. deputy secretary, jordan fuchsia, and you can tell that i was angry, turning webb from the here of, when that happened, it happened at the time. and she called secretary raffensperger to say we have seen these kind of threats, and gave things we need to say something about it. secretary said yes, and that's what prompted me to do what i did. i lost my temper. but it seemed necessary at the time, because it was just getting worse. and i cannot tell you why that particular one was the one that put me over the edge, but it did. >> now after you made this plea to the president, did donald
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trump urged his supporters to avoid the use of violence? >> not to my knowledge. >> we received, my secretaries would say, an excess of 20,000 emails and tens of thousands of voicemails, and texts, which saturated our offices and we were unable to work. at least communicate. but at home, up until even recently, it is the new pattern, or a pattern in our lives to worry what will happen on saturdays. because we have various groups come by and they have had video, panel trucks, with videos of me proclaiming to be a pedophile and a pervert, and a corrupted politician. and blaring loudspeakers in my
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neighborhood, and leaving literature both on my property. but arguing and threatening with neighbors. and with myself. i don't know if i should name groups, but there was one gentleman that had the three bars on his chest. he had a pistol, and was threatening up my neighbor, not with the pistol, but just vocally. when i saw the gun i knew why i had to get close. and, at the same time, on some of these, we had a daughter who was gravely ill. who was upset by what was happening outside, and my wife
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that is a balanced person, very strong, quiet, very strong woman. so it was disturbing. very disturbing. >> rusty bowers, adult daughter, in fact, was terminally ill. at the time. he and his wife was caring for her when this happened at her home, she died on january 28th, 2021. think about that timing. january 28th 2021. >> so at this point, we got the violence and intimidation of threats, that trump brought to bear on these people to try to get them with they don't want to do. to try to get them to overthrow the election, force them into it. we've got a vivid accounts of trump's campaign against also, individual election workers. one of which prompted gabriel sterling, a senior official in the georgia secretary of state's office, to react publicly in an irate faction, to try to protect the workers
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who were getting threatened. and another election worker who was the final witness today, which was some incredible testimony. we will get to that in just a moment. but, again before we move on, i want to just make sure that we take stock here and that we are observing this. i think part of which is part of the stop, some of what's being described, here is not just a tad today, it's a crime. against federal law and state law. we can't intimidate, election officials to try to get them to change the election results. >> and there's also something more profound than a crime. it's in the sense. and the rest of ours testimony felt like the moment, and iconic moments in mccarthy hearings where the chief counsel, the department of advance, slice tearing at one of the staffer says, at long last have you no decency? >> and the bowers moment today was, watching man for all seasons or something. this guy i agree with nothing about politically. who in a moment of grave stakes, like responded in the righteous fashion. and it was inspiring and
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beautiful. >> i made, two things. what's the testimony and the core representative to the 16 committee was donald trump on the phone with receive hours. brad raffensperger on the receiving end of the income, this is the committee's work to show donald trump, not swept up in a conspiracy, erecting a conspiracy to indifferent. he has had a question from you chris, congressman angular, about whether it was safe to see this as an effort to kill pence. when he said was is this indifference whether he lives or dies. this is indifference to one of these people live or die. it also begs the question, the reason he is there today is because of extraordinary reaction. to being asked an illegal plot. it makes me wonder i'm really different things of all the accomplices donald trump described on the phone. justice department leaders who take over that department. with every other republican to? because there is only one, that did that. >> and it makes you realize, we have to depend on something as unimaginable, his heroism in
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that moment. that shouldn't be the threat of the fate of the republic pence. it was this time today at the hearing we also got to put a face several faces actually to some of the intimidation that was directed at the georgia election workers. and again, keep in mind, this is already part of the focus for multiple active criminal investigations. stay with us. >> i received a call from my grandmother saying that there were people at her home, and they, they are knocked on the door and of course she opened it, seeing who was there. what was. and they just started pushing their way through, claiming that they were coming in, to make a citizens arrest. , to , to make a citizens after 15 walks it gets a little old. i really should be retired by now. wish i'd invested when i had the chance...
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>> the same people who are attempting to pressure vice president mike pence to reject electoral votes illegally were also simultaneously working to reverse the outcome of the 2020 election at the state level. each of these efforts to overturn the election as independently serious. it deserves attention both by congress and by our department of justice. >> and by our department of justice. welcome back to prime time recap of today's january 6th hearing. the hearing today focused on the president bringing threats and intimidation to bear, again, at state officials who he was trying to force to throw out election results. the personal effect of that
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pressure, and there is more to say about that still, and there was a lot of people will remember about today's hearing, but today, we did also have the vice chair of the investigation, liz cheney, explicitly calling for the justice department to direct its attention to the pressure campaign trump ran against the vice president and against state officials. meaning prosecutors at the federal level should be looking at this. today's hearing, the, was also the first time we sort of tried upon territory, that we already know that criminal investigations are underway. federal prosecutors are looking for example, at the fake electoral scheme. we will have more to come on that, in a moment. we've got a lot of new information on that today. we know that federal prosecutors are also looking at the pressure campaign to make false fraud claims, and try to throughout the election results in georgia. in fact, both federal prosecutors and state prosecutors in georgia, are investigating those matters, with the help of active federal and state grand juries. testimony today from election
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worker, wandrea shaye moss, made it heart wrenching, why intimidating election workers as a crime. and why not only why is it a crime against those individual election workers, and what it cost us as a country. >> i'd like to show you some of the statements that rudy giuliani made in the second hearing before the georgia state legislators, a week after that video clip from state farm arena was forced circulated, by mr. giuliani and president trump, i want to advise viewers that these statements are completely false, and also, deeply disturbing. >> earlier in the day, ruby freeman and shaye freeman moss, researched, usb ports as if there -- i mean, it's obvious to anyone who is a criminal investigator or prosecutor, they are engaged
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in illegal activity. again, that day. and a week ago, there's still walking around georgia, lying. they should have been questioned already. there are places of work, their home, should've been searched, for evidence of ballots, for evidence of usb ports, for evidence of voter fraud. >> it wasn't just rudy giuliani. we heard president trump make these false allegations repeatedly during his call with secretary raffensperger. let's listen to a portion of what he had to say about you and your mother. >> we had at least 18, 000, that's on tape, we had them counted very painstakingly, 18,000 voters, having to do with ruby freeman, she is a vote scammer, a professional vote scammer, and hustler. >> donald trump attacked you
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and your mother using her name 18 times on that call. 18 times. miss moss, can you describe what's your experience to former trump attacking you on your mother in a call with georgia secretary of state? >> i felt horrible. i felt like it was all my fault, like, if i would have never decided to be in elections work are, like, i could have -- anything else, but that's why i decided to do, and now, people are lying, they're spreading rumors and lies and attacking my mom. i'm her only child. they're going to my grandmother's house, and i'm on her only grandchild. and mike it is just -- i felt so bad. i just felt bad for my mom, and i felt horrible for picking this job, and being the one
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that always wants to help, and always there, never missing out one election. i just felt like it was my fault, for putting my family in the situation. >> it wasn't your fault. miss moss, how is this experience of being targeted by the former president and his allies affected your life? >> it destroyed my life upside down. i no longer give out my business card. i don't transfer calls. i don't want anyone knowing my name. i don't want to go anywhere with my mom, because she might yell my name out of the grocery aisle or something. i don't go to the grocery store at all. i haven't been anywhere at all. i've gained about 60 pounds. i just don't do nothing
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anymore. i don't want to go anywhere. i second guess everything that i do. it has affected my life in a major way. in every way. it's all because of lies. >> your mother also told the select committee about how she had to leave her own home for her safety, and go into hiding, after the fbi told her that it would not be safe for her there, before january 6th, and until the inauguration. let's listen to a clip of her story in her own words. >> around the week of january 6th, the fbi informed me that i needed to leave my home for safety. and i left my home for safety around that time. >> understood, how long did you stay out? did you remain outside of your home for your own safety? >> i stayed away from my home
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for approximately two months. it was horrible. i felt homeless. i felt, you know, i can't believe, i can't believe this person has caused this much damage to me and my family, to have to leave my home that i've lived there for 21 years. and, you know, i'm having to have my neighbors watch out for me, you know? and i have to go and stay with somebody. it was hard. it was horrible. >> miss moss, i understand the people once showed up at your grandmother's house. tell us about that experience. >> i received a call from my grandmother. this woman is my everything. i've never even heard her or seen her cry, ever in my life, and she caught called me,
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screaming at the top of her lungs, like shaye, shaye, oh my god, shaye, just freaking me out, saying that there are people at her home, and they, you know, they knock on her door. and of course, she opened it, seeing who was there, who it was. and they just started pushing their way through, claiming that they were coming in, to make a citizens arrest. they needed to find me and my mom. they knew we were there. and she was just screaming, and didn't know what to do. i wasn't there, so, you know, i just felt so helpless and so horrible for her, and she just screamed, i told her to close the door, don't open the door for anyone. >> in addition to the personal
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impact this experience has had on you and your family, one of the things that i find most disturbing is how these lies discourage longtime election workers from continuing to do this important work. tell us, if you would, of the other election workers shown in that state farm arena video, and their supervisors, how many are still election workers in fulton county? >> there is no permanent election worker, or supervisor and that video that's still there. >> and you end up leaving your position as well? >> yes, i left. >> miss moss, i want to thank you for coming into speak with us, and thank you for your service. to our democracy. >> it was so hard to watch. >> yeah, it was hard to watch. >> hard to watch a second time. >> it's hard to watch a second time. i have to tell you, you know, this whole hearing was really impactful, and incredible, and incredibly well done.
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you know, rusty bowers was this incredible witness. but when shaye moss started speaking, my phone exploded. people who don't even follow a lot of news, and who -- were really checked into her. i mean, we know, we know shaye moss. we know lady ruby freeman. lady ruby is every older black lady at every polling place that i used when i was living in new york, when i was living in florida. it's always the same women, black women, usually older black women, who are at that, sitting there with a laptops, figuring it out, figuring out your signature. when my kids were in new york, and they newly turned 18, they said hey, baby, you can vote now. you're ready to vote? and they were they would encourage you. they give you a sticker. >> for those women for people like shaye and lady ruby to no longer feel safe to do that job, to be menaced, i don't know where mccaskill might be there earlier, not only did they deal with that.
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lady ruby freeman had kanye west publicist show up at her house and threatened her and say, if you don't admit to the election fraud, if you don't admit you did it, commit a crime, you're gonna be arrested in 48 hours. they were threatened with, you know, the legal system coming down upon them, criminal arrests, they were physically threatened. this citizens arrest threat, that's like an old-fashioned lynching in the south and georgia, are you kidding me? and this is fulton county where donald trump had directed his focus, when he was calling brad raffensperger for 67 minutes, saying that's where the fraud is. i'm gunning the person, and with lady ruby freeman said was so true, can you imagine, you know, i've had donald trump go after me. but i can take it. you know, i've been around this wheel a long time. i can take it. these people had no protection. nothing to protect them. >> and they still don't today. >> and they don't now, absolutely. >> there is one president in our history we do something like this, who would attack a woman in that position, 18
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times in that phone call with raffensperger, which he believed was a private phone call at the time. but that was a public phone call within 24 hours. and, after it became public, donald trump said, it was a perfect phone call. so, he fully publicly supported his own racist attack, and rudy giuliani's own racist attack on these women, and that is something that would not have happened by any previous president. and we had presidents do a lot of horrible things, but not reach all the way down to an individual at a polling place and do something like that. >> to destroy their lives. >> i'm sorry, a lot of people in media really like rudy giuliani, that's rudy giuliani i know. basically calling these women heroin dealers, and hustlers, that's the rudy giuliani i remember. >> that's there would be giuliani of the 19 80s when he was the u.s. attorney, and there are people here in new york have observed rudy giuliani from the 19 80s onwards, who say, affirmatively, the man has never check. in any way. that's always been the guy. >> and let's not --
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fourth major point of today's hearing, the fake electors, there were like ten new surprise revelations about the fake elector scheme today. we will show you all of that, in a moment. plus, we've got adam schiff joining us, our primetime ercot continues, right after this. 've got adam schif joining us, continues, right after this. ♪♪ this... is the planning effect. this is how it feels to know you have a wealth plan o you. this is what it's like to have a dedicated fidelity advisor looking at your full financial picture. making sure you have the right balance of risk and reward. and helping you plan for future generations. this is "the planning effect" from fidelity. moderate to severe eczema and helping you plan for future generations. still disrupts my skin. despite treatment it disrupts my skin with itch. it disrupts my skin with rash. but now,
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the florida legislator was prepared to do. which is to adopt a slate of electors yourself. and when you add in the mix of the significance statistical anomalies, and sworn of david, and video evidence, of outright election fraud, then it's not just north already to do that, but quite frankly, i think it's your duty, to do that. so what are we going to do? i only need 11,000 votes. tell us. i need 11,000 votes. give me a break. >> you know one had a thing about this part of the plot, is that it's all on tape. >> if you guys are going to
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crime, pleased with direct fully into the microphone. make sure that we've got you on tape, gentlemen. welcome back to our primetime recap of today january six hearing, that was trump lawyer, john eastman, exhorting the georgia legislator that it was their duty to appoint trump electors even though trump lost georgia. it was also former president trump telling georgia officials, that he just needs 11,000 votes, fellas, come on, give me a break. all right. this right now, we are concluding our recap of what happened at today's hearing. we still got adam schiff, courtney joining us just a moment, he was a member of the let. that led today's hearing. one of the people that we heard from, and one of the witnesses from the investigation today, joscelyn benson, secretary of state. for michigan. we heard from her as. well the final four that we're gonna recap now, was sort of mind-blowing to me, a mind-blowing amount of new information on the issue of fake electors. the hearing today revealed a
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lot of new information on the part of the plot where trump tried to make republican officials in states he lost, nevertheless, sending electors to the electoral college for him as if he had one. this is not up, when i saw at least, the new information that we heard today from the hearing. first we saw that from the hearing today, that the white house counsel's office said explicitly, hold people including try white house chief of staff mark meadows, and rudy giuliani, white house counsel office, explicitly told them that their fake elector scheme was not legal. also we learned of the trump campaign lawyers all bailed on this game. make sure they themselves had nothing to do with it because they two believed it was illegal. we also learned that the trump campaign lawyers apparently did not convey this fact down the line. and so republicans who took part in the scheme at the state level at least some of them, felt duped into doing it, and now, say now they realize trump lawyers, knew it was illegal,
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boy they wish they hadn't taken part. the committee also turned up evidence that some of the fake electors asked the trump campaign to please cover their legal cost in case they were sued or arrested and charged with a crime for having participated in the scheme. we also learned today that the national republican party, rnc, helped with this part of the scheme. the republican party chair, ronna ramsey mcdonald, testified of the republican party helped put the fake slates of electors together. they help the trump campaign and this illegal effort. certainly, we also learned that the fake electors in michigan had a plan to hide out overnight, inside the michigan state capital, so they would be there in the morning, and able to sign their forged certificates inside the state capital, even if nobody wanted to let them in. even more bizarre louis. we learned that the trump campaign had trouble, physically getting, the forced
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elected certificates to washington in time for the fake certificates to potentially be used on january six. nevertheless, apparently, or maybe because they were having trouble with that? i don't know? apparently republican u.s. senator ron johnson of wisconsin offered that he would hands career the thanks if it gets to vice president pence, on january six itself. seriously, that was all today, the fake elector schemes was always bizarre and astonishing, for the first moment that we found out about it. but today, honestly, it is one bananas. >> some campaign lawyers became convinced that convening electors in states that trump lost, was no longer appropriate. >> i just remember, i either applied or called someone, and the swift allegation pentimenti, in the states, i don't think this is appropriate. this isn't the right thing to do. i don't remember how i phrased it. but, i had a little bit of a
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back and forth that i think it was, she's burrow, said all right, you just get after it. i'm out. >> at that point, i had josh simply email hasbro, politely to say this is your task. you are responsible for the electoral college issues moving forward. and this was my way of taking that responsibility to zero. >> the committee learned the white house counsel's office also thought the plan was potentially illegal. >> and to be, claire did you hear the white house counsel's office say that this plan to have alter electives and meets cast votes for donald trump, in states that he had laws, was now illegally sound? >> yes sir. and who was present for that meeting, that you remember? >> it was an hour offices. mr. meadows, mr. giuliani, and
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a few of mr. giuliani's associates. >> the select committee interviewed several of the individual if they collectors as well as trump campaign staff, who helped agonize the effort. >> we were just kind of useful idiots, or ruse, at that point. a strong part of me really feels that it's just kind of as the road continued, as it was failure, failure, failure, that that got formulated is what we have on the table. let's just do it. >> and now after what we have told you today about the select committee investigation about the conclusion of the progression lawyers on the campaign staff, justin clark, matt morgan, and josh friendly, about their unwillingness to participate in the convening of these electors, how does that contribute to understanding of these issues? >> i'm angry. i'm angry. because i think in a sense, you know, no one really cared if,
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if, people were potentially putting themselves in jeopardy. >> would you have not wanting to participate any further as well? >> absolutely would not have. had i known that the three main lawyers for the campaign that i've spoken to in the past, and we're leading up, we're not on board. yeah. >> he said he was working with the presidents campaign. he told me that the michigan republican electors were planning to meet him in the capital and hide overnight so that they could fulfill the role of casting their votes, in pearl awe, in the michigan chambers. i told him, in no certain terms, that that was insane, and
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inappropriate. >> in one state, the fake electors even asked for a promise of the campaign would pay their legal fees if they got to, or charged with a crime. text messages exchanged between republican party officials and wisconsin, show that on january 4th, the trump campaign asked for someone to fly that there fake electors documents to washington. a sophomore from wisconsin senator, ron johnson, texas the staffer from vice president pence, just minutes before the beginning of the joint session. the staffer stated that senator johnson wish to handle delivered to the vice president, the fake electors votes from michigan and wisconsin. the vice presidents aide unambiguously instructed them not to deliver the fake votes to the vice president. >> do not give that to him. do not, nope! do not! this is! >> there's a little bit of an update on this part of the amazing story since the hearing. on that last point that the republicans u.s. -- ron johnson of wisconsin offered to hand career to the vice president, on january six, the forged certificates for
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fake trump electors. that was some new news today. but after that was revealed at the hearing, senator ron johnson made very clear at the reporters that he does not want to talk about it to the point where he will take being on the phone to avoid answering that question about it. >> how much did you know about the chief of staff was doing with the alternate slates of the electors? >> i'm on the phone right now. >> no you're not, i can see your phone. i can see your screen. >> can you explain with your chief of staff was doing? >> does your chief of staff to work for you senator? >> can u.s. play what happened there? why was your chief of staff even offering this to the vice president? >> that's a complainant. story we've issued a statement, and this is a complete non-story. i don't know what your even concerned about here. >> well they said that year chief of staff is saying that
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you offered, you wanted to provide -- >> no, no, no. >> this was a staff to staff exchange, and i was basically unaware of it. the chief of staff contacted the vice president staff, said do you want this? >> in they said no we didn't deliver it, and that's the end of the story. >> but why was even asking for that? >> because somebody deliver this to our office and acids a liver that's of the vice president. >> did you support his efforts to try to get those flights to the vice president? >> no, i had no knowledge of this. >> who was the person -- >> i had no involvement in an alternate state of electors. i had no idea this would even be delivered to, us got delivered to staff the staff, might even staff did the right thing, contacting the vice president staff. they said they didn't want it so we didn't deliver it. that's the end of the story. >> a staff the staff contact. to be clear, it was his chief of staff asking for senator ron johnson to be allowed to have direct contact with the vice
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president so that he can hand convey these forged documents. i had no knowledge of this! you know i was in the airport, a guy came up to me, he handed me this bag, it was ticking and had fertilizer coming out of it. idaho. yes i don't know what it was. he asked me to bring it on the plane. i just brought on the plane. i don't know what's in it! stop the staff. [laughs] >> so like i can see your phone. [laughs] >> how bad is that they collectors plot? it's so bad that ron johnson pretended to be on the phone. this is also pretty telling in terms of how concerned these guys actually are. about potential complicity and criminal acts. >> still with me in the studio are my colleagues, chris hayes, joy reid, nicole wallace, we are joined now by army wilbur, allison bc chief correspondent the host of the beat. ari, when a senator pretends to be on the phone, and he is, it as nikole pointed, out that usually indicates that he is a little bit concerned about what's being asked about? calling it a non story doesn't overshadow his very obvious
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efforts to avoid talking about which makes you make a very big story. is there, now that we know the u.s. are department of justice is investigating think electors, if someone like ron johnson right to worry about being implicated with this plot? >> yes, i mean it's bizarre and baroque, but also important, you put your finger exactly on it. the facts matter, the evidence is breaking through, and not only to the public that is watching these but to the ocean -- -- to much more careful denials the idea that on the certification day of this election that everyone lived up to this point,, mr. johnson's office was doubling as a kind of homemade postal service, is absurd. oh yeah that's what we, do we process more for the vice president, and has delivered to the senate. [laughs] >> i hate to do this, but to paraphrase, biggie smalls.
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[laughs] >> don't be mad, ups is hiring. it's like, you don't work at ups, you are not the mail bag for the vice president, and by the way, again, i don't say something obvious, but to the extent of the trump view, and or arguments needed an air rink? he is a number to two official in the trump administration. he is a member of the losing campaign. he was familiar with all that. to circle back to and on your question rachel. the legal problem is, you can lie on the street, you can lie on tv, you cannot lie to the government. you can lie in front of the courthouse, but when you walk inside it, it's perjury. you can lie in front of the congress, but when you walk inside and submit fraudulent documents, even if you are in the government, and sometimes especially because it could be a second charge, you are in a different turf. >> and the thing that kind of, came through today in that montage you play, it icons through the hearings, and i found very illuminating. is the awareness contemporaneously of legal exposure. >> yeah.
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>> the suspect sank, to johnny's, when you -- matt morgan said, i took it to zero. there is that. there is the awareness but also this sort of spectrum in this brought ethical drama between the balance of the story, donald trump of the rudy giuliani's, the heroes of the story. the shea mosses, and rusty bowers. and then there's this huge sloughing between like the matt morgan. the campaign attorney that we saw there who didn't blow the shaye moss whistle who didn't say do this who didn't say this is illegal, we didn't like rusty buyers that took an oath, i believe in this country, i believe in document -- i believe in law, this is things are presently, they are sacred to, me they didn't say anything. that i took the zero and i let someone else try to pull off the criminal scheme to undo american democracy the first time the two hunted -- congratulation matt morgan. you see why a lawyer who managed to put that off on somebody else's plates. this is what scares me, i don't see in this collection of people, i think it's more that republicans are saying all this. >> because it does take away the idea that this is some
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partisan witch hunt drama. but it worries me because the lie that they were willing to bend. how far most of them were willing to go with right up to the point of criminality. and they went, you know what, that's too much crime for. me you are too close to where i could go to jail. but they were willing to go really far which really worries me about -- >> they were going to head in the michigan state house overnight. so that they wouldn't be discovered and thrown out, and instead they could sneak into doing their pick elector certificates. before the real electors got there, and then maybe they would be counted or something? >> but i think again, if you take it all as a piece, the point today, i think there were many points, but substantively it all came back to trump. >> yeah. >> trump was on the phone with the widow says. trump was -- campaign to do this. we don't know yet if trump wanted johnson to be the cut out. he is like a freaking cut out for to overthrow the election. i also think that the crimes that have been dropped about republican -- i think a lot of people listen list cheney's final whack at
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the and about doing your duty and ignoring the politics to be about getting -- cipollone's testimony. i think she is also foreshadowing a lot of evidence they had to make some republicans perhaps. -- >> i will add briefly. >> some of the absurdity can ask how close it was. in a different world. people say all we need three states. that's what they thought. they thought if they waved those papers around, and pence took them, that they could delay to that day sort of the elections. >> i want to know all they wanted was one. -- >> easements others out there. florida -- of a quick question for you already, though. we also learned today. >> we have standing by. >> okay never mind. >> our last guest. >> really quickly, today we learned that i might be the fall guy, that there was this rolling stone reporting from aspen scuba saying that he's going to be the fall throwing him under the bus. and that is one of how that plays out if he goes under the bus, what can you say? >> it only was that one person is being prosecuted release the pressure on other people.
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>> can davey flip? >> as a useful? >> eastman was worry about being the fall i what trump was the president. so maybe a pardon. but if that pardon had ever been issued, it would have to describe eastman's coup crimes from trump. so trump didn't want his lawyers to write that up. >> in just a moment we are gonna talk to the man who led today's hearing, congressman adam schiff had a very big day, he's gonna join us live, stay with us. big day he's gonna join us live,the mosa world can bring a full weight of presidency down on an ordinary citizen who has merely doing her job, with a lie as big and heavy as a mountain. who among us is safe? none of us is. none of us. none of us
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the call that there was hundreds of thousands of undocumented people and thousands of dead people who had reportedly voted in the election? >> yes. >> and you ask him for evidence of that? >> i did. >> and did he ever -- did you ever receive from him that evidence either during the call, after the call, or to this day? >> never. >> joining us now is california congressman adam schiff of california. he's the chairman of the house intelligence committee. he led today's hearing of the january six investigation. sir, i know this is been a big day. thank you very much for taking time to be with us here tonight. >> good to be with you. >> it is my estimation, having
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very closely watched today's hearing that there were four main points that you brought forward. the first, and i think most prominent, most important of those, is that you explained how president trump, personally, took part in cajoling and trying to persuade people to overturn election results in the states. he, then, personally took part in escalating from that, to new tactics that would bring threats of violence and intimidation against those same targets. and we saw that, i think, in stark detail today. is that the main point that you and your cohen vesta gaiters wanted to convey today? >> yes, really just how premeditated it all was. how it started with a big lie that the president was told over and over again by his attorney general, deputy, his u.s. attorney in georgia, by others, with a big lie. but that didn't matter.
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he used that big lie as a bludgeon to try to get these state legislators and elections officials to bend to his well, to overturn the election. but he rendered resistance by courageous public servants who said no, i'm not gonna violate my oath, you may be the president, you may be the head of my party, but there's something more important to me. and that's miles. and that's my faith. and i am glad that the public had to see these real people. >> congressman, it's nicole wallace. violence and its proximity to, it's whether it's with mike pence, or with the proud boys, and the oath keepers, has been a constant thing. and the committee has gone farther than anyone else have ever has, to putting him not just adjacent to the violence, but cheering for the violence, indifferent to the consequences of the violence. does this story deep in, i mean, do you have evidence that puts donald trump in the commanding control position of the
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violence meted out by the proud boys and oath keepers and the other insurrectionist groups? >> well, you know, i don't get ahead of our committee presentations. but, you know, i think that one of the hearings where we explore what the president was doing, what it was saying, and what he was thinking, while the violence goes on, goes to this very point. it goes to the point of dereliction of duty. it goes to the point that he incited this violence, he incited this hatred. he riled up his base. and what did he do while it was all happening? he sat back and watched it all play out. and, you know, to see today the human consequences of that, just a small part of it, these election workers in atlanta, who were just doing their job, who had no idea they were about to be hit with a club. this false claim, the likening of what they did to drug deals,
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i mean, just disgusting. and you see how peoples lives were turned upside down, and ultimately, how lives were lost on january six. >> congressman, it's ari here. you have this evidence of all these different people submitting false electors, including potential to the government. do you view this is something worth some one or more people have broken the law through that? >> well, i share the view of judge carter in california, that this block to overturn the election, which had many facets, likely violated multiple federal laws. and likely, implicated the president of the united states. you know, whether one specific aspect or another violated a particular statute, i would have to leave it to the department of justice. but i certainly believe there's more than enough evidence for them to investigate each of the crimes that judge carter set out. and i think the more evidence that we presented to strength
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this case for federal investigation. >> congressman, i'm just gonna jump in real quick here with a follow on ari's question. i just wanna ask about the response from senator ron johnson at wisconsin today, after this connection to this part of the plot was aired today in the hearing. senator johnson said today that he was aware that his office had received the forged certificates, the fake slates of electors. but he says he doesn't know who delivered them. that struck us all here on the panel as odd, because if you got something from somebody you don't know who, the first instinct would be that you volunteer to him deliver it to the vice president on january 6th. but that's what he says. he says he doesn't even know where he got them from. he was just a korean. does that drive with what you and the committee understand about senator johnson's involvement? >> well, i can't go in to what the committee this evidence or understanding is.
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i watched that same clip with a lot of interest today, as senator johnson essentially said that he knew that something had arrived in the office. his chief of staff was being asked to deliver it to, or being asked to help convey it to the vice president. this is january 6th we're talking about, and the idea that we wouldn't know what it was, or anything about it, i think, makes a lot of questions. >> >> congressman, this is joy actually have a question about the center as well as we showed it. it's about kind of the doll that didn't hunted. a as we were watching the hearing today, i kept waiting to hear one name that i didn't, and that is senator lindsey graham. who we do know from the reporting also put pressure on brad raffensperger, and others, in the state of georgia, two hand donald trump the votes, the flip the votes that he needed in order to win that election. can you talk a little bit about the process about who was included, who was not included,
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and will we hear more about senator graham's involvement in this pressure campaign on particular belief in the state of georgia? >> well in terms of the process as you might imagine, there is a volume of evidence, a mountain of evidence to try to communicate through each of these hearings, which you know are only lasting between two and three hours. and so we have to kind of ruthlessly say what's most important to convey to the public. and that means a lot, hits the cutting room for. ultimately we intend to open up and release our files and let the public know the much bigger volume of what we have a obtained. i cannot tell you exactly when that is going to happen but we do intend to share a lot that we couldn't cover in these hearings. but yes, i some very difficult decisions are made with each of these hearings, what's most important, knowing that we can't convey it all, or even
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more than a small fraction. >> congressman adam schiff, democratic california of the january six investigation, who let at a's hearing, sir i hope it's not work for me to tell you that part of our job of recapping the hearing, was i think made easier tonight by the fact that today was so cogent and tobol organized. and we know that in large part, that was you are doing, along with your staff and your fellow investigators. but thank you for your service today in presenting the so clearly, and thank you for joining us to help us understand it tonight. >> thank, you and i'm just so glad the country got to see some of these heroic public servants. >> thank you sir. >> that wasn't, where it that was nice. >> it just weird to be nice people on tv. they're like not supposed, to if it's supposed to pretend -- that >> i think editing on cutting and that's made that easy, i think that's a nice thing to say. >> it is interesting because we have seen the committee change up its schedule, right, move some stuff around and take something off the schedule, but
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some things back on. change start times and everything. so we know that they are in fact, so lofton has been so open about the fact that this is really hard. and we need to take some of the burn off the staff in terms of getting all the tape cut and ready all organize. sometimes it goes more smoothly than others. today's hearing was perfectly choreographed, perfectly organized. it's made a bunch of points. some of it all up. there were like 25 different pieces of news that they broke today, but they did it in such a way that it was well organized and save simple. >> it was incredibly well done. and i think, we also have democrat perspective, this is what we all do for a living. literally, this is what we do for a living. i have been really astounded by how well they have done. that a piece of it. the other thing is, you can't keep thinking of like what would it be like if jim jordan, or whatever, jim, whoever. it just isn't entirely different thing that is being done. >> the presentation of information. >> presentation. >> incredibly bipartisan.
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betty thompson is so generous, he shares that role, he turns it over to liz cheney, at the beginning, and they. and the bipartisan imprimatur is so firmly. >> and the honesty. >> and the leader of the next hearing will be the other republican member, adam kinzinger, who will lead on thursday when they start talking about the efforts to basically decapitate the oh day. and turned the justice department into part of this plot. all, right we got another gas was standing by to join us. our next guest tonight, told the january six investigation about the being on the receiving end of threats from armed protesters after she crossed president trump in this plot. she is michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson, she gave dramatic testimony today. she will join us live, next, stay with us. [inaudible] >> you are a threat to democracy! are a threat to
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>> the secretary of state in the great state of michigan, jocelyn benson, is one of the people who was a target of this pressure campaign that president trump aimed at various states officials, trying to force them to change the election results in the states after he had lost those states. here is what secretary of state benson told the january six investigation about a pro trump crowd surrounded her home in
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the summer 2020. >> and then about 45 minutes later we start to hear the noises outside my home and my stomach sunk, and i thought it me and then it's just we don't know what's gonna -- uncertainty of that was what, was the fear. are they coming with guns? are they gonna attack my house? i'm in here with my kid. i'm trying to put them into bed. and so, it was, that was the scariest moment just not knowing what was going to happen. >> joining us now is michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson, bob secretary of state, thank you so much for being here tonight, i know it must of been kind of an intense day for you. >> it was. but thank you for having me, and for having this really important discussion. >> a lot of michigan in today's hearing. obviously you talk to the committee directly about the threats, directed at you including those protesters who came to your home. we heard from a michigan legislative leader talking about being pressured by president trump on a trip to
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the white house. telling president trump that they would not overturn the election results and then effectively having the trump supporters directed at him personally. we heard about michigan's fake electors, this forged slates of fake electors plotting to cap out overnight in the state capital so they can search to potentially pop up in the morning? or have to monitor something? and declare themselves the real electors in middle they weren't. it does -- i have cited from the, outside it feels like michigan is, got a son being coming through some sort of magnifying glass and you guys are burning a hole in it in terms of how crazy this must have been for all of you. >> yeah truly. and we lived a lot of that today, and i think in many ways, either some people heard what we have known for a long time. also that there was no fraud, irregularities in our elections. they were secure, they were accurate. indeed be withstood an extraordinary amount of scrutiny that hasn't ended.
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one of the things i learned through january six was that it may indeed be just the beginning. of this multi coordinated effort to be prepared to potentially next time. effectively, overturn a legitimate presidential election. and so it is important that we see the granular details of what we all lived in michigan in 2020, so that we are prepared together as a country, as a state, to withstand that same spotlight again, successfully, in the future. >> to that point, madam secretary, chris hayes here, it was striking to me that there were several republican michigan that the politicians who featured in taped testimony of depositions to get. clearly they were pressured by the president, including the head of the state senate. and others. but there was no rusty bowers or raffensperger as far as i can tell. and i guess i wonder like, how confident are you that the republicans in your state did resist the pressure, and would
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resist the pressure at the level that we saw from mr. bowers and mr. raffensperger if it were to happen again? >> it's a mixed bag. i think we saw many rise to the occasion. first and foremost, to think won't became clear today and what we experience and michigan is that democracy prevails in 2020, solely because people of integrity on both sides of the aisle did the right thing. i follow the law. in michigan we basically saw just enough people do that. on both sides of the aisle. so that we could withstand this scrutiny, and what has happened is that many of those individuals who certified those accurate election results has since been replaced by people who have said that they would've certified those results. by a party officials, by republican party officials. so what's concerning is a lot of the people who stood guard in 2020 won't be there in 2024. and indeed there are ongoing efforts to replace me, with our election this year, and others who said guard with people who
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would willingly look at the other way, or say yes i will find those votes if indeed the former president went to call and ask for them again. >> what about when you go all the way down, because you had a former president and his attorney bully to poll workers, and now the whole country has seen how they have been terrorized over the last year and a half. who are we going to get, who are you going to get in the state of michigan, to even want to work at an election? >> good question. >> yeah, it's all important to say how are we going to respond in this moment? basically as michiganders, as we hear these threats that are pushing a long time professional election this administrators out of the profession. we see that in michigan. we have tina barton, a republican clerk and oakland county. she stood up to her own party, spoke the truth, and received death threats, because of it. the antrim county clerk, similarly hasn't she won't run for reelection, a republican, because of that she endured. so that israel. but what is also will's others are stepping up. which is an incredibly
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inspiring thing. we've seen thousands of individual signed up to the election workers poll workers, people from both sides of the aisle, operating in good faith, who want to be champions at democracy with us in this moment. and that's what it is going to take if we are gonna continue to see democracy prevail. >> let me put pressure on that point a little bit, madam secretary, i see you put out a statement after today's hearing, it said in part, people have come to my home are threatened me, and my staff, and many of the hundreds of clerks and local election officials in our states, as a result there's an on the feeling of anxiety and dread that permeates our daily lives and our families lives. and i hear you answering stats question here just a moment ago talking about how there is another side to the two, people are being great, people are stepping up. but i have to wonder, about what more can we do to protect the human beings? particularly who work at a low level, who don't want this form of intimidation and threats in their lives. and i have to ask, we are doing all this talking about the
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possibility of criminal prosecution of some of the people who participated in these plots. would that further ramp up the threat, the rhetoric? without further raise the temperature? or would that kind of accountability potentially help in terms of getting people feel safe to do their part as citizens in civic workers? >> i think it would help more than it would hurt because we need accountability to ensure that these types of threats lesson. i think it's also important to note that the real reason they are continuing is because candidates seeking political office today, not just in michigan, but around the country, are repeating these threats. and making new once against election workers and suggesting they're planning for some sort of interference in this year's elections and beyond. to me, we need lawmakers to step up. and greater protections at the state and federal level for our election workers, but we also
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need voters to realize they can exert political accountability for candidates who are continuing to spread these lies. knowingly spread lies, to continue to foment hate and threats targeting election workers. voters can reject these candidates and this fall and show political accountability that way. and one of the most effective ways i think can put stop us from continuing to escalate. >> michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson, madam secretary, i am sorry about the threats that you and your family had to endure as part of this. and i am thankful that you are willing to talk about it to the committee and to us tonight. thank you. >> thank you. thank you for having. we >> are, got more to get to tonight, our primetime coverage of today's time is expiring continues in just a moment. stay with us. >> that was mr. giuliani. >> and what exactly did he say and how did that come up? >> my reluctance collection, we have a lot of theories, we just have the evidence. and i don't know if that was aghast, or maybe he didn't think through what he said.
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but both myself and others in my group, the three in my group, and my counsel, both remember that specifically, and afterwards, we kind of laughed about it. , we kind of laughed about it
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fever, and tiredness. if you switch to cabenuva, attend all treatment appointments. every other month and i'm good to go. ask your doctor about every-other-month cabenuva. >> there is no where i can feel safe. nowhere. do you know how it feels to have the president of the united states to target you?
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the president of the united states is supposed to represent every american. not to target one. but he targeted me. lady rudy, a small business owner, a mother, a proud american citizen, who sat up to help 14 county run an election in the middle of the pandemic. >> deposition footage today from ruby freeman, who along with her daughter, was targeted by name, by president trump and his allies in the effort to try to overturn the election. i will say that we have been talking all along through all of these hearings about how the committee has been so careful to have all republicans and or conservatives, including lots of trump appointees as their witnesses, shea moss, and the deposition from ruby freeman we finally got a different side of this. >> i kept thinking about the term patriot, which is entirely appropriate by like essentially the most vicious political
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life. and family values. and family values. >> but listening to moss and freeman speak was just very inspiring, i believe these people are patriots. they believe in democracy. there is a calling for them. these are patriots. this is what the word actually looks like in reality. >> but it also is terrifying to think that's what this is now an election worker is. we are moving to a kind of politics, where remember, the new republican strategy is to follow voters to their cars. they now have normalized the idea of using political violence to get the ends that they want down to intimidating people, threatening people. this is not republican politics, and that scares me going forward. no one wants to do the job. >> it's also true that their lives are still destroyed. they are not testifying after the fact. >> it's still happening. >> very good. points >> they were thrown into their homes for two months, where did they go? did we pay it? what do we owe them? i mean the question you asked secretary benson, what a prosecution help? so far there's been no consequences to any of the
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people who around the conspiracy to overturn the election. >> they got a settlement, really freeman got a settlement from one pro trump far-right media organization that aired the false claims about them. but that's it. >> but they could be an even bigger risk now that they had gone on tv. >> the question is, what does justice look like for that? because all of us are moved, but let's be honest. three, four, five days from now. are people going to remember these two peoples names? a lot of people won't. and they are still at risk. their lives are destroyed. we owe them. >> these women in particular, because they are low-level election workers. these are not people that you set in to credit unions and stop to handle things for them. but bowers, and brad raffensperger, even asked high-level officials, they are all school take picking up more robust by testifying today. plus those women have been through so much. >> the wrong people, the maga people, will remember their, names if they then get run on fox news, and they are in tougher show where they become the stars of the new. there's always a start of like,
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ugly right-wing media. if they then get beat up again, they are back in the hell again. it's not over. >> why does it take so long for this process though? it's been 17 months since we heard that raffensperger, trump phone call. poor raffensperger had to write and publish a book in that period of time. >> ironically. >> and basically are in hiding. >> we've got much more, stay with us. >> we've got much more, the relentless destructive campaign on state and elected officials were all based on a lie. donald trump knew it, he did it anyway. no he did i anyway no
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tonight for this primetime recap of today's january six theory. i will see you again tomorrow, 9:00, for a special wednesday edition of the rachel maddow show. the next january 6th hearing is gonna be the day after tomorrow, on thursday. and that one starts at 3 pm eastern. i don't know -- there will be one. and we will have live coverage of it again, in another primetime recap, here, thursday night, 8 pm, on msnbc. it will be me, and a cast of thousands. we'll do one of these specials, bring you all the highlights from that day. right now, though, it is time for the last word with the great north on. good evening, lawrence. ugh, it >> good evening, rachel. and while you are working, we were working. well i was there in the first hour the coverage. we have some real big breaking news from the united states senate. they have voted to advance


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