tv The January 6th Hearings The House Investigates MSNBC June 22, 2022 12:00am-2:00am PDT
called his steadfast integrity. and on that note, i wish you all a very good and safe night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late with us. i will see you at the end of tomorrow. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> you're asking me to do something against my oath, and i will not break my oath. >> the former president's personal involvement in targeting officials and election workers, in ways that threaten and ruin their lives. >> do you know how it feels to have the president of the united states to target you? >> new evidence unearthed in the investigation about the
bizarre forgery scheme, to create fake electors for trump, and how the trump campaign and his lawyers knew it was illegal? >> i said, what would you have me do? he said, just do it, and let the court sort it out. >> evidence on tape of the former president's direct personal pressure campaign against key, low-level officials in georgia. >> whatever you can do, francis. >> and, new testimony about the violence unleashed against the people that the president targeted. >> some people broke into my daughter and law's home. >> i said close the door, don't open the door for anyone. >> all the records, information, were offered online. >> there is no where i felt safe, nowhere. >> tonight, a member of the investigation who led today's hearing, congressman adam schiff.
plus, michigan secretary of state, jocelyn benson. nicole wallace, joy reid, chris hayes, lawrence o'donnell, ari melber, stephanie ruhle, all here for our special primetime recap of today's hearing of the january 6th incident investigation. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> good evening, thanks for being with us tonight. as the january six investigation continues it's blockbuster series of daytime hearings, we know that not everyone can take two or three hours out of their workday, or school day, to watch live. we have committed here at msnbc, though, that throughout these hearings, we will meet here together each night, to do a primetime recap of what happened. the evidence the committee presented, the witness testimony, the new news, the surprises, and today, was a day with a whole bunch of surprises. so, let us just start. let us jump right in. i think there is roughly, arguably, four main things the investigators showed us today. we are going to summarize all of them here tonight. now, i will just note at the outset that today's hearing was really tightly organized, really cogent.
the live witness testimony was very, very compelling. so, more so than from the other hearings that we have recap for you in these primetime specials, tonight, i will tell you, we've cut together a whole bunch of tape from the hearings, just because you don't need that much extra narrative from us, the story really does just kind of tell itself. but again, we're gonna focus on four main points. the first point, i believe, the overall main point of the hearing, was basically to strip away the gauziness, strip away any euphemism from this kind of anodyne phrase, we often use, to talk about this part of the plot to overthrow the election. the phrase, pressure campaign. it sounds like, you know, maybe a letter writing effort, or an advocacy initiative by the president and his supporters. and it kind of sounds nice. but it sounds civic. it made me even sound civil. it was not. today is the day the investigators showed what they have discovered about the character of the pressure president trump applied to officials in states he lost, to try to get them to falsify the
election results, and say he won. we got the character of the pressure, and the president's direct personal involvement in it. we also got the direct link from that pressure, to violence and threats of violence against the people who were targeted by the president. we also got, i think, deeply affecting testimony about how it ruined their lives. >> if you can convince americans that they cannot trust their own elections, that anytime they lose, it is somehow illegitimate, then what is left but to violence to determine who should govern? when state elections officials refused to stop the count, donald trump and his campaign tried to put pressure on them. when state executive officials refused to certify the winner of the states he lost, he applied more pressure. when state legislators refused to go back into session and appoint trump electors, he amped up the pressure yet again.
anyone who got in the way of donald trump's continued hold on power, after he lost the election was the subject of a dangerous and escalating campaign of pressure. this pressure campaign brought angry phone calls and texts, armed protests, intimidation, and all too often, threats of violence, and death. >> the point is this, donald trump did not care about the threats of violence. he did not condemn them. he made no effort to stop them. he went forward with his fake allegations anyway. one more point, i would urge all of those watching today to focus on the evidence the committee will present. don't be distracted by politics. this is serious. we cannot let america become a nation of conspiracy theories and thug violence. >> in city councils and town councils, on school boards and election boards, from the
congress to the courts, dedicated public servants are leaving their posts because of death threats to them, and to their families. this is not who we are. it must not become who we are. >> congressman adam schiff, who led today's hearing, vice chair of the investigation, liz cheney, laying out that core basic problem, with what the president, former president did when he tried to hold power by illegal and ultimately violent means. that it is a slippery slope and a short one, from illegal means, and coercion, to violence, to a country in which power is held by those who can inflict the most violence on their opponents. this is one of the incidents of investigators laid out today, to show how former president trump was willing, and even eager, to escalate from personal cajoling and attempts of persuasion, to bringing threats and intimidation to
bear. >> the pressure campaign to get state legislators to go along with the scheme intensified. when president trump invited delegations from michigan and pennsylvania, to the white house. >> either you or speaker chatfield, did you make the point to the president that you are not gonna do anything that violated michigan law? >> i believe we did. whether or not it was those exact words or not, i think the words that i would have more likely used, we were going to follow the law. >> nevertheless, the pressure continued. the next day, president trump tweeted, quote, hopefully, the courts and or legislatures will have the courage to do what has to be done, to maintain the integrity of our elections, and the united states of america itself. the world is watching. he posted multiple messages on facebook, listing the contact information for state officials, and urging his supporters to contact them, to quote, demand a vote on the de certification. in one of those posts, trump
disclosed that personal phone number to his millions of followers. >> all i remember is receiving over 4000 text messages in a short period of time, calling to take action. there was a loud noise, loud consistent cadence of, you know, we heard that the trump folks are calling and asking for changes in the electors, and you guys can do this. well, they were believing things that were untrue. >> another legislator, pennsylvania house speaker, bryan cutler, received daily voicemails from trump's lawyers in the last week of november. >> mister speaker, this is rudy giuliani and jenna ellis. we're calling you together because we'd like to discuss obviously the election, -- >> hello, mister speaker.
this is jenna ellis, and i'm here with mayor giuliani. >> hey, brian. it's rudy. i really have something important to call to your attention that i think really changes things. >> cutler felt that the outreach was inappropriate and asked his lawyers to tell rudy giuliani to stop calling. but giuliani continued to reach out. >> i understand you don't want to talk to me now. i just want to bring some facts to your attention, and talk to you as a fellow republican. >> on december 30th, trump ally, steve bannon, announced the protest at cutler's home. >> we're getting on the road, and we're going down to cutler. we're gonna start to going on opposites, and we have to go to their homes, and we're gonna let him know what we think about him. >> there were multiple forecasts, i don't remember the exact number. it was at least three, i think, outside of either my district office, or my home, and you are correct, my son, my 15-year-old son was home by himself for the first one. all of my personal information was docs online.
it was my personal email, my personal cell phone, my home phone number. in fact, we have tohome phone number in fact, we have t disconnect our home phone for about three days, and it was going off all hours in the night, and would fill up with messages. >> bryan cutler we are outside. >> public pressure on state officials often proved dangerous in the lead up to january 6th. >> [noise] [inaudible] >> what are we gonna do? what can you and i do as state legislature besides kill him? i'm not advising that, but i mean, what else can you do, right? >> the punishment for treason is death. >> the state pressure campaign and the danger posed to state officials in the state capitals around the nation was a dangerous precursor to the violence we saw, on january six at the u.s. capital. >> to that point the violence
and intimidation being directed at trump's targets in the state was a precursor to the january 6th attack in washington, to that point, the investigators also revealed new information today and, never before seen footage about the same trump supporters, the actual same people, menacing state officials that trump was targeting, before they menaced the federal officials that he targeted just a few weeks later. >> the select committee has uncovered evidence in the course of our investigation that the stop the steal protests at the state capitals across the country, there were individuals with ties to the groups and parties involved in the january 6th attack on the u.s. capitol. one of those incursions took place in the arizona house of representatives building, as you can see, in this footage. this is previously undisclosed
video, protesters illegally entering and refusing to leave the building. one of the individuals shown in this video is jacob chansley. perhaps better known as the qanon shaman, this rioter entered the capitol on january 6th, and was photographed leaving a threatening note on dius at the u.s. senate chamber, and was ultimately sentenced to 41 months in prison, after pleading guilty to obstruction of an official proceeding. other protesters who occupied the arizona house of representatives building, included proud boys, men armed with rifles stood just outside the entrance. i understand these protesters were calling for you by name, speaker bowers. is that correct? >> that is correct. >> speaker bowers there is a man named rusty bowers was the first witness of today's hearing. he's a conservative republican, a trump supporter, who campaigned for president trump 's reelection.
nevertheless, he came under intense personal pressure from the president and the presidents lawyers, that he should throw out the results of the election in arizona. rusty bowers is live, a count today of how intense that pressure was, and how he responded to it, and what it is to his life. this sort of jaw dropping testimony, we're gonna play it for you in just a moment. it's really something. before we do that, though, before we move on to that emotional testimony from rusty bowers, i just want to check in to make sure we are absorbing all of this. on these first revelations from investigators, we've got trump, personally, sort of, cajoling and persuading officials that he wants to get to do something that they don't want to do. and then, he personally escalates to direct his supporters to go after them. >> what's interesting now is
that the committee, this is the fourth hearing, right? >> yeah. >> there are things that are, that don't move. there are plot points that don't move. and two of them are, they lost, they knew he lost. and the other is that all the means for overturning the loss were illegal. it comes up again, and again, and again. all the changes, of what you're talking about, the escalatory tactics, so before the election, they're doing -- be surprised in these hearings. we felt like we know the story. i've been surprised by how much i've been surprised, and actually shock, like, i mean, you know, as you just said, the escalation against pence, which was the previous hearing, that buildup was dramatic. and you really understood, okay, this man's life was in danger. he was under threat of being lynched, if he didn't do what he was told. but now, you see this filtered all the way out. and i think one of the things
that were so effective about this hearing today is that each of the testimony started with this question. you a conservative republican, you want to trump's win. yes, other than ruby freeman and shaye moss, and so, you establish that they were willing to menace the, to threaten even to kill. and when you're talking about brad raffensperger's daughter who's a widow at home with her kids, then having somebody invade the home. you're talking about shaye moss grandmother, have people beat down harder, and say we are making a citizens arrest. in georgia, a black woman, that sounds like a lynching party. i mean, it was shocking to hear the level of violence that trump was willing to meet out from all the way to pence, all the way down to shaye moss. he wanted violence, anything. this is called fascism. >> well and to that point, one of the occurring things we signed the last, hearing and was on this, hearing i thought you're interim there about pressure campaign was really athlete done. that you keep having these interactions where the people on the receiving end of the trump arguments are like, these are bad arguments. people on the trump end, are like, we are not really making arguments. and there they fundamentally keeping like, well sir, i looked at that fact and it
doesn't matter. we'll set that argument doesn't scan. that there doesn't work. again, and again, these lawyers saying this. and what you realize almost sort of like this horror movie pinch. they are not trying to persuade you. they are not making arguments to you. they are trying to force you. they are trying to coerce you. they are bullying you. they are threatening you. so you keep having this moments of this kind of like, functionaries small secret of lawyers, that doesn't -- >> i have not seen the evidence. >> that's not what we're doing here dude. and then it's like where the mob is at your door. and that's when you realize. >> and if you do it, you don't wear the if you don't accept the, resent the mob will be a trigger. >> rachel, one of the things that got name check today was the gang that couldn't shoot straight which is jimmy breslin's novel, jimmy wasn't credited, the author never get credited turned into a movie. and it's about an actual gang of gangsters who are bad at it because they are stupid. jimmy basil understood that
stupidity runs very high in gang world. rudy giuliani and the piece that we just saw there, where speaker brian cutler, of pennsylvania, is refusing to take his call. he has made it clear, communicated, through his lawyer, through giuliani, do not call me. now, he couldn't make it clearer, that he is not going to be part of the gang. and the gang that couldn't shoot straight keeps calling him, not just calling him. leaving, taped recorded both males from rudy giuliani. jimmy breslin wouldn't have written that himself. >> and then they organized a mob to go to. without the pressure campaign by trump and his allies really was not a civil thing. and it did really have physically threatening, manifestations, some of which we did not know about until today, that is next, it's the second part of our recap. stay with us. >> one gentleman that had a three bars on his chest, and he had a pistol. and was threatening up my neighbor, not with the pistol, but just vocally. when i saw the gun, i knew i
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us tonight, for this prime time recap of the january six hearing that was held today. we are recapping four main points that was made at today's hearing. the first that we just discussed about the character and the personal nature of the presidents involvement in this pressure on state officials that they needed to throw out election results. the intimidation, and the threats of violence that trump brought to bear. against these officials who he was trying to force to do something, that they didn't want to do. there was extremely compelling live testimony today from one of those officials in particular, rusty bowers, is a conservative republican, he is
the speaker of the house in arizona. he today explained how he was pressured personally and relentlessly by trump campaign officials, trump advisers, and the president himself. watch. >> mr. bowers, i understand that after the election, you received a phone call from president trump and rudy giuliani, in which they discuss the results of the presidential election in arizona. if you would, tell us about that call, and whether the former president or mr. giuliani raised allegations of election fraud. >> thank you. my wife and i had returned from attending our church meetings, it was on a sunday. we were still in the driveway, and i had received a call from a colleague telling me that the white house was trying to get in touch with her, and i. and that she said please, if you get a call, let's try to take this together. immediately, i saw that the white house on my bluetooth was calling, and i took the call, and was asked by, i would presume the operator at the white house, if i would hold
for the president, which i did. and mr. giuliani came on first. nice, at ease, then mr. trump, president trump, then president trump, came on, and we initiated a conversation. >> during that conversation, did you ask mr. giuliani for proof of these allegations or fraud that he was making? >> on multiple occasions, yes. >> and when you asked him for evidence of this, what did he say? >> he said that they did have proof, and i asked him, do you have names? for example, do you have 200,000 illegal immigrants. some large number. five or six thousand dead people. et cetera. and i said, do you have their names? yes. will you give them to me? yes. the president interrupted, said give the man what he needs, rudy. and he said, i will. and that happened on at least two occasions, that inter change in the conversation. >> so mr. giuliani was claiming the call that there was hundreds of thousands of
undocumented people, and thousands of dead people who had reportedly voted in the election? >> yes. >> and you asked him for evidence of that? >> i did. >> and did he ever receive, did you ever receive from him that evidence, either during the call, after the call, or to this day? >> never. >> what was the ask during this call. he was making this allegations of fraud, but he had something or a couple of things that they wanted you to do. what were those? >> the ones i remember, were first, that we would hold, that i would allow, an official committee at the capitol, so that they can hear this evidence, and that we can take action thereafter. and i refused. i said, up to that time, the circus, i called it the circus,
had been brewing. with lots of demonstrations, both at the counting center, at the capitol, and other places. and i didn't want to have that in the house. i did not feel that the evidence, granted in its absence, merited a hearing, and i didn't want to be used as a pawn. if there was some other need that the committee hearing would fullfill. >> but was his second ask? >> i said, to what end, to what end the hearing? >> said we have heard, by an official higher up in the republican legislator that there is a legal theory, or a legal ability, in arizona, that you can remove the, the electors of president biden and replace them, and we would like to have the illegitimate opportunity, through the committee, to come to that end, and remove that. >> and i said that's totally new to me. i've never heard of any such thing. and he pressed that point. and i said look, you are asking me to do something that is counter to my oath when i swore to the constitution, to uphold
it. and i also swore to the constitution and the laws of the stateof arizona, and this is totally foreign as an idea or a theory, to me, and i would never do anything of such magnitude without deep consultation with qualified attorneys, and i said i got some good attorneys. and i'm gonna give you their names. but, you are asking me to do something against my oath and i will not break my oath. on more than one occasion throughout all this, that has been brought up, and it is a tenant of my faith, that the constitution is divinely inspired. of my most basic foundational beliefs. and so for me to do that, because somebody just asked me to? it's foreign into my very being. i will not do it. >> i will not do it, foreign to my very being. and you can see the tears in his eyes, you can hear the emotion in his voice as he said it. now i mentioned that we are
focusing on four main [interpreter] constitution is divinely inspired. of my most basic foundational beliefs. and so for me to do that, because somebody just asked me to? it's foreign into my very being. i will not do it. >> i will not do it, foreign to my very being. and you can see the tears in his eyes, you can hear the emotion in his voice as he said it. now i mentioned that we are focusing on four main points covered by today hearings. the first as we discussed is how the president himself participated in this pressure on state officials, to throughout the election results, how he himself escalated it, to the point of physical intimidation and threats of violence being directed at those officials. i think that the second main point today, was basically rusty bowers.
as a profile encouraged. somebody profoundly, profoundly challenged. and really shoved around. who nevertheless responded, basically, with honor. >> it is painful to have friends who have been such a help to me, turn on me with such rancor. i may in the eyes of man, not hold correct opinions or act according to their vision, or convictions. but i do not take this current situation in a light manner, a fearful manner, or a vengeful manner. i do not want to be a winner by cheating. >> it's one thing to sort of say that in the abstract, right? to think any of, us that's not how we would respond under pressure, that we wouldn't cave. we would do the right thing just like he did. the hearing today i think, gave life to that being an easy
assumption for most of us, i think. by spelling out what it was really like to live through the actual pressure that trump directed at these people. this was not a story. this was not a parable. this was not something that you would imagine yourself as the hero in. this is terrifying. from the point of view of rusty bowers, that arizona secretary, excuse, me secretary speaker of the house. from the point of view of brad raffensperger, and from the point of even low-level election workers themselves. >> after the election, my email, my cell phone, was docs, and so i was getting text all over the country, and then eventually, my wife started getting a text and her typically came in as sexualized texts. which were disgusting. yes understand that, trisha and i, met in high school. we were married over 40 years now. and so, they started going after her, i think just to probably put pressure on me.
wanting to just quit or walk away. and so that happened. and then some people broke into my daughter and laws home. and, my son has passed, and she is a widow. she has two kids. so we are very concerned about her safety, also. >> and mister secretary, why didn't you just quit and walk away? >> because i knew that we had followed the law, we had followed the constitution. and i think sometimes moments require you to stand up and just take the shots. >> a little after lunch, that day, at lunchtime, i received a call from the project manager from the dominion voting systems, who was oddly shaken. not the kind of person that i would assume be that way. she has a masters fromcr> mit, naval academy, and is very much on the ball with, pretty unflappable. and she informed me about a young contractor they had who had been receiving threats, from a video that had been posted by some qanon supporters. and at that point, we had just been stepping at this kind of stop. it was a round of all the time.
i didn't take note of it, more than adding to the pile of other stuff that we were having to deal with. and i did pull up twitter, and i scrolled through it. and i saw the young man's name, it was particular tweet that for lack of better word, was the straw that broke the cables back. a young man's name, very unique name, i believe the first generation american. and, had his name, you committed treason, may god have mercy on yours, all with a slowly twisting gift of a noose. and for lack of a better word, i lost it. i just got, irate. my boss was with me at the time. deputy secretary, jordan, and she can tell that i was angry, turning red from the here up, when that happened, it happened at the time. and she called secretary raffensperger to say we have seen these kind of threats, and gabe things we need to say something about it. secretary said yes, and that's what prompted me to do what i did. i lost my temper.
but it seemed necessary at the time, because it was just getting worse. and i cannot tell you why that particular one was the one that put me over the edge, but it did. >> now after you made this plea to the president, did donald trump urge his supporters to avoid the use of violence? >> not to my knowledge. >> we received, my secretaries would say, an excessive 20,000 emails and tens of thousands of voicemails, and texts, which saturated our offices and we were unable to work. at least communicate. but at home, up until even recently, it is the new pattern, or a pattern in our lives to worry what will happen on saturdays. because we have various groups come by and they have had video,
panel trucks, with videos of me proclaiming to be a pedophile and a pervert, and a corrupt politician. and blaring loudspeakers in my neighborhood, and leaving literature both on my property. but arguing and threatening with neighbors. and with myself. i don't know if i should name groups, but there was one gentleman that had the three bars on his chest. he had a pistol, and was threatening up my neighbor, not with the pistol, but just vocally. when i saw the gun i knew i had to get close. and, at the same time, on some of these, we had a daughter who
was gravely ill. who was upset by what was happening outside, and my wife that was a valiant person, very strong, quiet, very strong woman. so it was disturbing. very disturbing. >> rusty bowers, adult daughter, in fact, was terminally ill. at the time. he and his wife were caring for her when this happened at her home, she died on january 28th, 2021. think about that timing. january 28th, 2021. so at this point, we got the violence and intimidation of threats, that trump brought to bear on these people to try to get them with they don't want to do. to try to get them to overthrow the election, force them into
it. we've got a vivid account of trump's campaign against also, individual election workers. one of which prompted gabriel sterling, a senior official in the georgia secretary of state 's office, to react publicly in an irate fashion, to try to protect the workers who were getting threatened. and another election worker who was the final witness today, which was some incredible testimony. we will get to that in just a moment. but, again, before we move on, i want to just make sure that we take stock here and that we are absorbing this. i think part of which is part of the stuff, some of what's being described, here is not just a tad today, it's a crime. against federal law and state law. we can't intimidate election officials to try to get them to change the election results. >> and there's also something more profound than a crime. it's indecent. and the rusty bowers testimony felt like the moment, and iconic moments in mccarthy hearings where the chief counsel, the department of defence, slice tearing at one
of the staffer says, at long last have you no decency? >> and the bowers moment today was, watching man for all seasons or something. this guy i agree with nothing about politically. who in a moment of grave stakes, like responded in the righteous fashion. and it was inspiring and beautiful. >> i mean, two things. what the testimony and the core representative to the 1/6 committee was donald trump on the phone with rusty bowers. brad raffensperger on the receiving end of the income, this is the committee's work to show donald trump, not swept up in a conspiracy, directing a conspiracy to indifferent. he has had a question from you chris, congressman aguilar, about whether it was safe to see this as an effort to kill pence. when he said was is this indifference whether he lives or dies. this is indifference to one of these people live or die. it also begs the question, the reason he is there today is because of extraordinary reaction. to being asked to carry out an illegal plot. it makes me wonder a million
different things of all the accomplices donald trump described on the phone. justice department leaders who take over that department. what did every other republican do? because there is only one rusty bowers, that did that. >> and it makes you realize, we have to depend on something as unimaginable, his heroism in that moment. that shouldn't be the threat of the fate of the republic hangs. it was this time today at the hearing we also got to put a face several faces actually to some of the intimidation that was directed at the georgia election workers. and again, keep in mind, this is already part of the focus for multiple active criminal investigations. stay with us. >> i received a call from my grandmother saying that there were people at her home, and they, they knocked on the door and of course she opened it, seeing who was there. who it was. and they just started pushing their way through, claiming that they were coming in to make a citizens arrest. make a citizens arrest
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>> the same people who were attempting to pressure vice president mike pence to reject electoral votes illegally were also simultaneously working to reverse the outcome of the 2020 election at the state level. each of these efforts to overturn the election is independently serious. each deserves attention both by congress and by our department of justice. >> and by our department of justice. welcome back to our prime time recap of today's january 6th hearing. the hearing today focused on
the president bringing threats and intimidation to bear, against state officials who he was trying to force to throw out election results. the personal effect of that pressure, and there is more to say about that still, and there was a lot of people will remember about today's hearing, but today, we did also have the vice chair of the investigation, liz cheney, explicitly calling for the justice department to direct its attention to the pressure campaign trump ran against the vice president and against state officials. meaning prosecutors at the federal level should be looking at this. today's hearing, though, was also the first time we sort of tred upon territory, that we already know that criminal investigations are underway. federal prosecutors are looking for example, at the fake electoral scheme. we will have more to come on that, in a moment. we've got a lot of new information on that today. we know that federal prosecutors are also looking at the pressure campaign to make false fraud claims, and try to throw out the election results in georgia. in fact, both federal prosecutors and state
prosecutors in georgia, are investigating those matters, with the help of active federal and state grand juries. testimony today from election worker, wandrea shaye moss, made it heart wrenchingly clear, why intimidating election workers is a crime. and why not only why is it a crime against those individual election workers, and what it costs us as a country. >> i'd like to show you some of the statements that rudy giuliani made in the second hearing made before the georgia state legislators, a week after that video clip from state farm arena was first circulated, by mr. giuliani and president trump, i want to advise viewers that these statements are completely false, and also, deeply disturbing. >> earlier in the day, ruby freeman and shaye freeman moss quite obviously, passed around
usb ports as if they were biles of heroin or cocaine. we i mean, it's obvious to anyone who is a criminal investigator or prosecutor, they are engaged in illegal activity. again, that day. and a week ago, they are still walking around georgia, lying. they should have been questioned already. there are places of work, their homes, should've been searched, for evidence of ballots, for evidence of usb ports, for evidence of voter fraud. >> it wasn't just rudy giuliani. we heard president trump make these false allegations repeatedly during his call with secretary raffensperger. let's listen to a portion of what he had to say about you and your mother. >> we had at least 18, 000, that's on tape, we had them counted very painstakingly, 18,000 voters, having to do
with ruby freeman, she is a vote scammer, a professional vote scammer, and hustler. >> donald trump attacked you and your mother using her name 18 times on that call. 18 times. miss moss, can you describe what you experienced to former trump attacking you and your mother in a call with georgia secretary of state? >> i felt horrible. i felt like it was all my fault, like, if i would have never decided to be an elections worker, like, i could have done anything else, but that's why i decided to do, and now, people are lying, they're spreading rumors and lies and attacking my mom. i'm her only child. they're going to my grandmother's house, and i'm her only grandchild.
and my kid, i just -- i felt so bad. i just felt bad for my mom, and i felt horrible for picking this job, and being the one that always wants to help, and always there, never missing out one election. i just felt like it was my fault for putting my family in this situation. >> well, it wasn't your fault. miss moss, how is this experience of being targeted by the former president and his allies affected your life? >> it has turned my life upside down. i no longer give out my business card. i don't transfer calls. i don't want anyone knowing my name. i don't want to go anywhere with my mom, because she might yell my name out over the grocery aisle or something. i don't go to the grocery store at all. i haven't been anywhere at all.
i've gained about 60 pounds. i just don't do nothing anymore. i don't want to go anywhere. i second guess everything that i do. it has affected my life in a major way. in every way. all because of lies. >> your mother also told the select committee about how she had to leave her own home for her safety, and go into hiding, after the fbi told her that it would not be safe for her there, before january 6th, and until the inauguration. let's listen to a clip of her story in her own words. >> around the week of january 6th, the fbi informed me that i needed to leave my home for safety. and i left my home for safety around that time.
>> understood, how long did you stay out? did you remain outside of your home for your own safety? >> i stayed away from my home for approximately two months. it was horrible. i felt homeless. i felt, you know, i can't believe, i can't believe this person has caused this much damage to me and my family, to have to leave my home that i've lived there for 21 years. and, you know, i'm having to have my neighbors watch out for me, you know? and i have to go and stay with somebody. it was hard. it was horrible. >> miss moss, i understand the people once showed up at your grandmother's house. tell us about that experience. >> i received a call from my grandmother.
this woman is my everything. i've never even heard her or seen her cry, ever in my life, and she called me, screaming at the top of her lungs, like shaye, shaye, oh my god, shaye, just freaking me out, saying that there are people at her home, and they, you know, they knocked on her door. and of course, she opened it, seeing who was there, who it was. and they just started pushing their way through, claiming that they were coming in, to make a citizens arrest. they needed to find me and my mom. they knew we were there. and she was just screaming, and didn't know what to do. i wasn't there, so you know, i just felt so helpless and so
horrible for her, and she just screamed, i told her to close the door, don't open the door for anyone. >> in addition to the personal impact this experience has had on you and your family, one of the things that i find most disturbing is how these lies discourage longtime election workers from continuing to do this important work. tell us, if you would, of the other election workers shown in that state farm arena video, and their supervisors, how many are still election workers in fulton county? >> there is no permanent election worker, or supervisor in that video that's still there. >> and did you end up leaving your position as well? >> yes, i left. >> miss moss, i want to thank you for coming in to speak with us, and thank you for your service. to our democracy. >> it was so hard to watch.
>> yeah, it was hard to watch. >> hard to watch a second time. >> it's hard to watch a second time. i have to tell you, you know, this whole hearing was really impactful, and incredible, and incredibly well done. you know, rusty bowers was this incredible witness. but when shaye moss started speaking, my phone exploded. people who don't even follow a lot of news, and who -- were really checked into her. i mean, we know, we know shaye moss. we know lady ruby freeman. lady ruby is every older black lady at every polling place that i used when i was living in new york, when i was living in florida. it's always the same women, black women, usually older black women, who are at that, sitting there with their laptops, figuring it out, figuring out your signature. when my kids were in new york, and they newly turned 18, they said hey, baby, you can vote now. you're ready to vote? and they would encourage you. they give you a sticker. for those women, for people
like shaye and lady ruby to no longer feel safe to do that job, to be menaced, i don't know claire mccaskill reminded me there earlier, not only did they deal with that. lady ruby freeman had kanye west's publicist show up at her house and threatened her and say, if you don't admit to the election fraud, if you don't admit you did it, commit a crime, you're gonna be arrested in 48 hours. they were threatened with, you know, the legal system coming down upon them, criminal arrests, they were physically threatened. this citizens arrest threat, that's like an old-fashioned lynching in the south and georgia, are you kidding me? and this is fulton county where donald trump had directed his focus, when he was calling brad raffensperger for 67 minutes, saying that's where the fraud is. i'm gonna name the person, and what lady ruby freeman said was so true, can you imagine, you know, i've had donald trump go after me. but i can take it. you know, i've been around this wheel a long time. i can take it. these people had no protection.
nothing to protect them. >> and they still don't today. >> and they don't now, absolutely. >> there is one president in our history who would do something like this, who would attack a woman in that position, 18 times in that phone call with raffensperger, which he believed was a private phone call at the time. but that was a public phone call within 24 hours. and, after it became public, donald trump said, it was a perfect phone call. so, he fully publicly supported his own racist attack, and rudy giuliani's own racist attack on these women, and that is something that could not have happened by any previous president. and we had presidents do a lot of horrible things, but not reach all the way down to an individual at a polling place and do something like that. >> to destroy their lives. >> i'm sorry, a lot of people in media really like rudy giuliani, that's rudy giuliani i know. basically calling these women heroin dealers, and hustlers, that's the rudy giuliani i remember. >> that's the guy, giuliani of the 19 80s when he was the u.s.
attorney, and there are people here in new york have observed rudy giuliani from the 19 80s onwards, who say, affirmatively, the man has never changed in any way. that's always been the guy. >> and let's get to our fourth point. fourth major point of today's hearing, the fake electors, there were like ten new surprise revelations about the fake elector scheme today. we will show you all of that, in a moment. plus, we've got adam schiff joining us, our primetime recap coverage continues, right after this. afte this
psst. girl. you can do better. ok. wow. i'm right here. and you can do better, too. at least with your big name wireless carrier. with xfinity mobile, you can get unlimited for $30 per month on the nation's most reliable 5g network. they can even save you hundreds a year on your wireless bill, over t-mobile, at&t and verizon. wow. i can do better. yes, you can. i can do better, too. break free from the big three and switch to xfinity mobile. she could always do what the florida legislature was prepared to do which is to adopt a slate of electors yourself. and when you add in the mix of the significance statistical anomalies and sworn affidavits and video evidence of outright election fraud, i don't think it's just your authority to do that but quite frankly i think you have a duty to do that. >> i only need 11,000 votes.
fellas, i need 11,000 votes. give me a break. >> you know, one handy thing about this part of the plot, is that it's all on tape. >> yes. >> if you guys are going to crime, please do it directly into the microphone, make sure that we've got you on tape, gentlemen. welcome back to our primetime recap of today's january 6th hearing. that was trump lawyer john eastman exhorting the georgia legislature, it was their duty to appoint trump electors even though trump lost georgia. it was also former president trump telling georgia officials that he just needed 11,000 votes, fellas. come on, give me a break. all right. this right now we're concluding our recap of what happened at today's hearing. we still have adam schiff joining us in just a moment. the member of the investigation who led today's hearing. one of the people we heard from and one of the witnesses from the information today was the michigan secretary of state. we'll hear from her as well. but the final point we're going
to recap now was sort of mind blowing to me, mind blowing amount of new information on the issue of fake electors. the hearing today revealed a lot of new information on the part of the plot where trump tried to make republican officials in states he lost nevertheless send in electors to the electoral college for him as if he had won. ill just nut up what i saw at least as the new information we learned today from the hearing. first, we saw that from the hearing today that the white house counsel's office said explicitly hold people including mark meadows and rudy giuliani, explicitly told them that their fake elector scheme was not legal. also, we learned the trump campaign lawyers bailed on the scheme. made sure they themselves had nothing to do with it they themselves believed it was illegal. the trump campaign lawyers did not convey this fact down the
line. so republicans who took part in this scheme at the state level, at least some of them, felt duped into doing it. now that they realize trump's lawyers knew it was illegal, boy, they wish they hadn't taken part. the committee also turned up evidence that some of the fake electors asked the trump campaign to please cover their legal costs in case they were sued or arrested and charged with a crime for having participated in the scheme. we also learned that the national republican party, rnc, helped with this part of the scheme. the chair testified that the republican party helped put the fake slates of electors together. they helped the trump campaign in this illegal effort. bizarrely we also learned that the fake electors in michigan had a plan to hide out overnight in the michigan state capitol to be there in the morning and sign
their forged certificates even if nobody wanted to let them in. more bizarrely, we learned the trump campaign had trouble gets the forged certificates in washington in time for the fake certificates to potentially be used on january 6th. nevertheless, apparently or maybe because they were having trouble with it, i don't know, apparently republican u.s. senator ron johnson of wisconsin offered that he would hand courier the fake certificates to vice president pence on january 6th itself. seriously, that was all today. the fake electors scheme was always bizarre and astonishing from the first moment we found out about it. but today, honestly, it just went bananas. >> some campaign lawyers became convinced that convening electors in states that trump lost was no longer appropriate. >> i just remember -- i either replied or called somebody
saying unless we have litigation pending in these states, like, i don't think this is appropriate. or this isn't the right thing to do. i don't remember how i phrased it, but i got into a back and forth. i think it was with ken where i said, all right, just get after it. i'm out. >> at that point, i had josh finley email mr. cheese borrow politely to say this is your task. you are responsible for electoral college issues moving forward. and this was my way of taking that responsibility to zero. >> the committee learned the white house counsel's office also felt the plan was potentially illegal. >> so typically did you hear the white house counsel's office say that this plan to have alternate electors meet and cast votes for donald trump in states that he had lost was not legally sound?
>> yes, sir. >> and who was present for that meeting that you remember? >> it was in our office it was mr. meadows, mr. giuliani and mr. giuliani's associates. >> the select committee interviewed several of the individual fake electors as well as trump campaign staff who helped organize the effort. >> we were useful idiots at that point. you know, strong part of me really feels that it's just as the road continued and as it was failure, failure, failure that that got formulated as what do we have on the table, let's just do it. >> and now after what we've told you today about the select committee's investigation about the conclusion of the professional lawyers on the campaign staff, clark, morgan and finley about their unwillingness to participate in the convening of these electors, how does that contribute to your understanding of these issues?
>> i'm angry. i'm angry because i think in a sense no one really cared if people were potentially putting themselves in jeopardy. >> would you have not wanted to participate in this any further as well? >> absolutely would not have had i known that the three main lawyers for the campaign that i had spoken to in the past and leading up were not on board. yeah. >> he said he was working with the president's campaign. he told me that the michigan republican electors were planning to meet in the capitol and hide over night so that they could fulfill the role of casting their vote in -- per law
in the michigan chambers and. i told him in no uncertain terms that that was insane and inappropriate. >> in one state the fake elector even asked for a promise that the campaign would pay their legal fees if they got sued or charged with a crime. text messages exchanged between republican party officials in wisconsin showed that on january 4th the trump campaign asked for someone to fly their fake elector's documents to washington. >> a staffer for ron johnson texted staffer for vice president pence just minutes before the joint session. this staffer stated that senator johnson wished to hand deliver the vice president the fake electors votes from michigan and wisconsin. the vice president's aide unambiguously delivered -- >> do not give that to him. nope. this is -- now, wait. there's a little bit of an update on the amazing story
since the hearing. on that last point, that republican u.s. senator ron johnson of wisconsin offered to hand courier to the vice president on january 6th the forged certificates for fake trump electors, that was some new news today. but after that was revealed at the hearing, senator ron johnson made very clear to reporters that he does not want to talk about it to the point where he will fake being on the phone to avoid answering their questions about it. >> how much did you know about what your chief of staff was doing with the alternate slates of electors? >> no, you're not. i can see your phone. i can see your screen. >> is your chief of staff still work for you, senator? >> can you explain what happened there? why was your chief of staff even offering this to vice president
pence? >> that's a complete non-story. i don't know what you're -- what you're even concerned about here. >> your chief of staff was saying that you offered -- you wanted to tell -- >> no, no, no, no. this was a staff to staff exchange. and i was basically unaware of it. and the chief staff contacted the vice president's staff, said do you want this? said no. we didn't deliver it. that's the end of the story. >> why was he even asking for that? >> because somebody delivered this to our office and asked to deliver that to vice president. >> did you support his efforts to try to get those slates to the vice president? >> no. i had no knowledge of this. >> who is the person who -- >> i had no involvement in an alternate slate of electors. i had no idea this would be delivered to us. it got delivered staff to staff. my chief staff did the right thing. contacted vice president's staff. they said didn't want it, so we didn't deliver it.
that's the end of story. >> a staff to staff contact. yeah. to be clear, it was his chief of staff asking for senator ron johnson to be allowed to have direct contact with the vice president so he could hand convey these forged documents. i had no knowledge of this. you know, i was in the airport, a guy came up to me, he handed this bag. it was ticking and had fertilizer coming out of it. i don't know who he was. he asked me to bring it on the plane. i just brought it on the plane. i don't know what's in it. staff to staff thing. >> i can see your phone. >> how bad is the fake elector's plot? it's so bad that ron johnson pretended to be on the phone. this is also pretty telling in terms of how concerned these guys are about potential complicity in criminal acts. >> still with me are chris hayes, joy wallace, the host of the beat, ari. when a senator pretends to be on
a phone call and he isn't, as nicole pointed out, that usually indicates he's concerned about what he's being asked about. calling it a non-story doesn't overshadow his very obvious efforts to avoid talking about it sch makes it seem like a big story. is there -- now that we know that the u.s. department of justice is investigating the fake electors thing, is somebody like ron johnson right to worry about being implicated with this plot? >> yes. it is bizarre and baroque. you put your finger on it. the facts matter. the evidence is breaking through. and not only to the public that's watching these, but to the people at doj monitoring them. so the usual duck and lie defense is giving way to much more careful denials. the idea that on the certification day of this election which everything that everyone had lived through up to that point, mr. johnson's office was doubling as kind of homemade postal service, is absurd.
that's what we do. we process mail for the vice president. >> i hate to do this, but to paraphrase biggy smalls -- >> thank you. >> don't be mad u.p.s. is hiring. it's like you don't work at u.p.s. you're not the mail bag for the vice president. i don't say something obvious, to the extent that the trump view and/or argument needed an airing, he is the number two official in the trump administration. he's a member of the losing campaign. he was familiar with all that. so to circle back and end on your question, rachel, the legal problem is, you can lie on the street. you can lie on tv. you cannot lie to the government. >> right. >> you can lie in front of the courthouse. but when you walk inside it, it's perjury. you can lie in front of the congress. but when you walk inside and submit fraudulent documents, even if you are in the government and especially because there could be a second charge, you're in a different turf. >> the thing that has come
through in that montage you played and come through the hearings and i found very illuminating is the awareness contemporaneously of legal exposure. you hire a criminal lawyer. that's the best advice you'll get. matt morgan saying i took it to zero. there's the awareness but the spectrum in this broad ethical drama, the villains, the donald trumps and the rudy giulianis, the heroes, shea mosses and rusty bowers and the huge swath, the matt morgans, the campaign attorney who didn't blow the whistle, didn't say don't do this, who didn't say this is illegal, this is outrageous. i took an oath. i believe in this country. i belove in democracy. i believe in the rule of law. these things are precious and sacred to me. he didn't say any of that. i took it to zero and let someone else try to pull off the criminal scheme to undo american democracy the first time in the 240 year history of this country. congratulations, matt morgan.
you see why a lawyer who managed to put that off on someone else's plate. >> i don't see in this collection of people, i think it's smart that republicans are saying all this because it does take away the idea this is some partisan witch hunt on trump. the line they were willing to bend. how far most of them were willing to go was right up to the point of criminality. that's too much crime for me. you're too close to where i could go to jail. but they were willing to go really far. >> they were willing to hide in the michigan state capitol overnight so they wouldn't be discovered and thrown out and instead they could sneak in to doing their fake elector's certificate before the real electors got there and then maybe they would be counted or something? >> again, if you take it all as a piece, the point today -- there were many points, but substantively it all came back to trump. trump was on the phone with the witnesses. trump was directing his campaign to do this. we don't know yet if trump wanted johnson to be the cutout.
he's a freaking cutout to overthrow the election. i also think that the crumbs that have been dropped about republican accomplices are irresistible. a lot of people understood liz cheney's whack at the end about doing her duty and ignoring the politics to be about getting sip lowny's testimony. she's foreshadowing a lot of evidence they have that will make some republicans perhaps want to tell their side of the story. >> just to add briefly, some of the absurdity can mask how close it was. in a different world, they needed three states. that's not what they thought. they thought if they wave those papers around and delay that certification. >> once you got one -- >> eastman said he thought they had florida. i have a quick question for you, ari -- >> schiff is standing by -- >> really quickly, we learned that eastman might be the fall guy. rolling stone reporting saying
that he'll be the fall guy. they're throwing him under the bus. if he goes under the bus, what can he say? >> only works if one person getting prosecutors -- >> is he useful? >> eastman was worried about being the fall guy while he was president. if that pardon issued would have to describe eastman's coup crimes for trump. trump didn't want his lawyers to write that up. just a moment, we'll talk to congressman adam schiff had a very big day. he'll join us live right after this. stay with us. he'll join us live right after this stay with us >> if the most powerful person in the world can bring the full weight of the presidency down on an ordinary citizen who is merely doing her job, with a lie as big and heavy as a mountain, who among us is safe? none of us is. none of us. is. none of us cash payment. we thought we had planned carefully for our retirement. but we quickly
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so mr. giuliani was claiming on the call that there were hundreds of thousands of undocumented people and thousands of dead people who had purportedly voted in the election? >> yes. >> you asked him for evidence of that? >> i did. >> did you ever receive from him that evidence either during the call, after the call or to this day? >> never. >> joining us now is california congressman adam schiff of california. he is the chairman of the house intelligence committee. he led today's hearing of the january 6th investigation. sir, i know this has been a big
day. thank you very much for taking time to be with us here tonight. >> good to be with you. >> it is my estimation having very closely watched today's hearing there were four main points that you brought forward. the first and i think most prominent, most important of those is that you explained how president trump personally took part in cajoling and trying to persuade people to overturn election results in the states. he then personally took part in escalating from that to new tactics that would bring threats of violence and intimidation against those same targets. and we saw that i think in stark detail today. is that the main point that you and your coinvestigators wanted to convey today? >> yes. really just how premeditated it all was. how it started with a big lie that the president was told over and over and over again by his
attorney general, deputy, by his u.s. attorney in georgia, by others was a big lie, but that didn't matter. he used that big lie as a bludgeon to try to get these state legislatures and election officials to bend to his will, to overturn the election. but he ran into resistance by courageous public servants who said, no, i'm not going to violate my oath. you may be the president. you may be the head of my party, but there's something more important to me. that's my oath. and that's my faith. and i'm glad the public got to see these heroic people. >> congressman, nicole wallace. violence and donald trump's proximity to it, whether it's with mike pence or with the proud boys and the oath keepers has been a constant theme. and the committee has gone farther than anyone else ever has to putting him adjacent to
the violence, cheering for the violence, indifference to the violence. >> well, you know, i don't want to get ahead of our committee presentations, but i think that one of the hearings where we explore what the president was doing, what he was saying and what he was thinking while the violence goes on goes to this very point. it goes to the point of dereliction of duty, it goes to the point that he incited this violence, he incited this hatred. he riled up this base. and then what did he do while it was happening? he sat back and watched it, watched it all play out. and to see today the human consequences of that, just a small part of it, these election workers in atlanta who were just going about their job who had no
idea they were about to be hit with a club, this false claim, the likening of what they did to drug deals. it was just disgusting. and you see how people's lives were turned upside down and ultimately how lives were lost on january 6th. >> ari here, congressman. you have this evidence of all these different people submitting false electors, including potentially to the government. do you view this something where some -- one or more people alone have broken the law with that act alone? >> i share the view of judge carter in california that this plot to overturn the election, which had many facets, likely violated multiple federal laws and likely implicated the president of the united states. you know, whether one specific aspect or another violated particular statute, i will have to leave to the department of justice, but i certainly believe there's more than enough
evidence for them to investigate each of the crimes that judge carter set out. and i think the more evidence that we presented just strengthens the case for a federal investigation. >> congressman, i'm just going to jump in real quick here with a follow on ari's question. i just wanted to ask you about the response from senator ron johnson of wisconsin today after this -- his connection to this part of the plot was aired today in the hearing. senator johnson said today that he was aware that his office had received the forged certificates, these fake slates of electors, but he says he doesn't know who delivered them. that struck us all here on the panel as odd because if you got something from somebody you don't know who, the first instinct wouldn't be that you volunteer to hand deliver it to the vice president on january 6th. but that's what he says. he says he doesn't even know where he got them from. he was just a courier. does that jive with what you and the committee understand about senator johnson's involvement?
>> well, you know, i can't go into what the committee's evidence or understanding is. i watched that same clip with a lot of interest today as senator johnson essentially said he knew that something had arrived in the office. his chief of staff was being asked to deliver it to -- or being asked to help convey it to the vice president. this is january 6th we're talking about. and the idea that he wouldn't know what it was or anything about it i think begs a lot of questions. >> congressman, this is joy reed. i have a question about a senator as well as rachel did. but it's about kind of the dog that didn't hunt today. as i was watching the hearings today, i waited to hear one name i didn't that is senator lindsey graham, we know also put pressure on brad raffensperger and others in the state of
georgia to hand donald trump the votes -- flip the votes that he needed in order to win that election. can you talk about your process about who was included and who was not included? and will we hear more about senator graham's involvement in this pressure campaign on particularly the state of georgia? >> well, you know, in terms of the process, as you might imagine, there's a volume of evidence, a mountain of evidence to try to communicate through each of these hearings, which you know, are only lasting between two and three hours. and so, we have to kind of ruthlessly say what's most important to convey to the public. and that means a lot hits the cutting room floor. now, ultimately we intend to open up and release our files and let the public know the much bigger volume of what we have obtained. i can't tell you exactly when that's going to happen, but we do intend to share a lot that we couldn't cover in these
hearings. but yes, some very difficult decisions are made with each of these hearings. what is most important, knowing that we can't convey it all or even more than a small fraction. >> congressman adam schiff, democrat california member of the january 6th investigation who led today's hearing. sir, i hope it's not weird for me to tell you that part of our job of recapping the hearing is i think made easier tonight by the fact that today was so cogent and so well organized. we know that in large part that was your doing along with your staff and fellow investigators. but thank you for your service today in presenting this so clearly and thank you for joining us to help us understand it tonight. >> well, thank you. i'm just so glad the country got to see some of the these heroic public servants. >> thank you, sir. >> that wasn't weird. that was nice. >> it's weird to be nice to people on tv. you're not supposed to. >> i think your in the job of editing and cutting. it's made that easy.
that's a nice thing to convey. >> it is interesting because we have seen the committee change up its schedule, right? move stuff around, take some things off the schedule and put some things back on and change start times. so we know they are -- zoe lofgren has been open about the fact that this is really hard and we need to take some of the burden off the staff in terms of getting it all organized. sometimes it goes more smoothly than others. today's hearing was perfectly choreographed, perfectly organized. it made a bunch of points. summing it all up, there were 25 different pieces of news they broke today. but they did it in such a way it was well organized and seemed simple. >> it was incredibly well done. i think we also have a -- from a craft perspective, this is what we all do for a living. literally this is what we do for a living. so i have been really astounded by how well they've done that piece of it. the other thing is you can't -- you keep thinking of like, what would it be like if jim jordan or whatever -- whoever was -- it
just is an entirely different thing that is being done. >> a presentation of information. >> it's a presentation of information. >> it's incredibly bipartisan. the bipartisan is so firmly on it. >> the leader of the next hearing will be the other republican member of the committee adam kinzinger is going to lead on thursday when they start talking about the efforts to basically decapitate doj and turn the justice department into part of this plot. we have another guest standing by to join us. our next guest tonight told the january 6th investigation about being on the receiving end of threats from armed protesters after she crossed president trump in this plot. she is michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson. she gave dramatic testimony today. she will join us live here next. stay with us. >> stop the steal! stop the steal!
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investigation about a pro-trump crowd surrounding her home in december 2020. >> and then about 45 minutes later we started to hear the noises outside my home. and that's -- my stomach sunk. i thought, it's me. and then we don't know what's -- the uncertainty of that was what was the fear. are they coming with guns? are they going to attack my house? i'm in here with my kid. i'm trying to put him to bed. and so, it was -- that was the scariest moment just not knowing what was going to happen. >> joining us now is michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson. ba dam secretary of state, thank you for being here tonight. it must have been an intense day for you. >> it was. but thank you for having me and having this really important discussion. >> a lot of michigan in today's hearing. obviously you talked to the committee directly about the threats directed at you,
including those protesters who came to your home. we heard from michigan legislative leader talking about being pressured by president trump on a trip to the white house, telling president trump that they wouldn't overturn the election results and then effectively having the trump supporters directed at him personally. we heard about michigan's fake electors, this forged slate of fake electors plotting to camp out overnight in the state capitol so they could surreptitiously pop up in the morning or after midnight or something and declare themselves to be the real electors even though they weren't. it does -- i have to say from the outside, it feels like michigan has a sun beam coming through some sort of magnifying glass and you're burning a hole in it in terms of how crazy this must have been for all of you. >> truly. we relived a lot of that today and in many ways the american people heard what we have known for a long time and that there
was no fraud and irregulariies in our election. we with stood an extraordinary amount of scrutiny that hasn't ended. i think one of the things i learned through january 6th it may indeed just be the beginning of this multi-year coordinated effort to be potentially effectively overturn legitimate presidential election. it's important that we see the granular details of what we all lived in michigan in 2020 so we're prepared together as a country, as a state, to with stand that same spotlight again successfully in the future. >> to that point, madame secretary, chris hayes here, it was striking to me there were several republican michiganders featured in taped testimonies. they were pressured by the president and head of the state senate and others but no rusty bowers or raffensperger as far as i could tell.
i guess i wonder how confident are you that the republicans in your state did resist the pressure and would resist the pressure at the level that we saw from mr. bowers and mr. raffensperger were it to happen again? >> it's a mixed bag. i think we saw many rise to the occasion. first and foremost, i think what became clear today and what we experienced in michigan is that democracy prevailed in 2020 solely because people of integrity on both sides of the aisle did the right thing and followed the law. and in michigan we basically saw just enough people do that on both sides of the aisle so that we could with stand this scrutiny and what has happened is many of those individuals who certified those accurate election results have since been replaced by people who have said they wouldn't have certified those results. by party officials, republican party officials. so, what's concerning is a lot of the people who stood guard in 2020 won't be there in 2024 and
indeed on going efforts to replace me with our election this year and others who stood guard with people who would willingly look the other way or say yes i'll find those votes if indeed the former president were to call and ask for them again. >> what about when you go all the way down because you had a former president and his attorney bully two poll workers. now the whole country has seen how they have been terrorized over the last year and a half. who are we going to get? who you going to get in the state of michigan to even want to work at an election? >> good question. >> yeah. it's so important to say how are we going to respond in this moment basically as michiganders, americans we hear these threats that are pushing long-time professional election administrators out of the election. we had tina barten, a republican clerk in oakland county stood up to her own party, spoke the truth and received death threats because of it. the county clerk similarly said
she won't run for re-election because of the threats she endured. that's real. what's also real is others are stepping up which is incredibly inspiring thing. we have seen thousands of individuals sign up to be election workers, poll workers, people from both sides of the aisle operating in good faith who want to be champions of democracy with us in this moment. and that's what it's going to take if we're going to continue to see democracy prevail. >> let me pressure you on that point a little bit, madame secretary. i saw you put out a statement after today's hearing said in part, people have come to my home or threatened me and my staff and many of the hundred clerks and local election officials in this state as a result there's an omnipresent feeling of anxiety and dread that permeates our daily lives and our family's lives. and i hear you answering steph's question here just a moment ago talking how there is another side people are being brave and people are stepping up, but i have to wonder about what more we can do to protect the human beings particularly who work at
a low level who don't want this form of intimidation and threat in their lives. and i have to ask, we're doing all this talking about the possibility of criminal prosecution of some of the people who participated in these plots. would that further amp up the threat, the rhetoric, would that further raise the temperature or would that kind of accountability potentially help in terms of making people feel safe to do their part as citizens and civic workers? >> i think it would help more than hurt because we need to see accountability to ensure that these types of threats lessen. and i think it's also important to note the real reason they're continuing is because candidates seeking political office today not just in michigan but around the country are repeating these threats and making new ones against election workers and suggesting they're planning for some sort of interference in this year's elections and
beyond. so to me we need lawmakers who step up and enact greater protections at the state and federal level for our election workers. we also need voters to realize they can exert political accountability for candidates who are continuing to spread these lies knowingly spread lies to continue to foment hate and threats targeting election workers. voters can reject these candidates this fall and show political accountability that way in one of the most effective ways i think that could stop this from continuing to escalate. >> michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson. i'm sorry about the threats that you and your family had to endure as part of this. and i'm thankful that you're willing to talk about it to the committee and to us tonight. thank you. >> thank you. thanks for having me. we have more to get to tonight. our primetime coverage of today's january 6th hearing continues in just a moment. stay with us. continues in just a moment stay with us >> that was mr. giuliani. >> and what exactly did he say and how did that come up?
>> my recollection he said we've got lots of theories. we just don't have the evidence. i don't know if that was a gaffe or maybe he didn't think through what he said, but both myself and others in my group, the three in my group and my counsel, both remember that specifically and afterwards we kind of laughed about it. kind of laughed about it
nowhere. do you know how it feels to have the president of the united states, to target you? the president of the united states is supposed to represent every american. not to target one. but he targeted me. lady ruby. a small business owner, a mother, a proud american citizen who stand up to help fulton county run an election the middle of the pandemic. >> deposition footage today from ruby freeman who along with her daughter was targeted by name by president trump and his allies in the effort to try to overturn the election. i will say we have been talking all along throughout all of these hearings about how the committee has been so careful to have all republicans and/or conservatives including lots of trump appointees as their witnesses with moss and the deposition testimony from freeman we got a different side
of this. >> i kept thinking about the term patriot which has been entirely appropriated by essentially the most valy shous elements of life and family values. listening to moss and freeman speak was just inspiring. these people are patriots. they believe in democracy. it's a calling for them. these are patriots. this is what the word actually looks like in reality. >> but also it's terrifying to think that this is now what being an election worker is. we're moving toward a kind of politics where remember the new republican strategy is to follow voters to their cars. they now have normalized the idea of using political violence to get the ends they want down to intimidating people, threatening people. this is now republican politics. that scares me going forward. who will want to do that job? >> it's also true that their lives are still destroyed. >> totally. >> they're not testifying after the fact. something they went through in the past. they were thrown out of their homes for two months? what do we owe them? i think the question you asked
secretary benson, you know, would a prosecution help? so far there's been no consequences to any of the people who ran the conspiracy to overturn the election. >> they got a settlement from one pro-trump far right media organization that aired the false claims about them. but that's it. >> but they could be even bigger risk now that they've gone on tv. the question is, what does justice look like for them? because all of us are moved, but let's be honest, three, four, five days from now, are people going to remember these two women's names? they're most likely lots of people won't and they're still at risk. their lives are destroyed. >> everybody who testified today, these women in particular, low-level election workers. not people used to having security details and staffs that handle things for them but bowers and sterling and raffensperger even as high level officials are taking more of a risk by testifying today. plus, those women who have been through so much. >> you know who will remember their names the wrong people, the maga people will remember
their name. they become the stars of the new -- there's always a star of ugly right wing media. if they get beat up again, they're back in the hell again. it's not over. >> why does it take so long for this process, though? it's been 17 months since we heard that raffensperger trump phone call. brad raffensperger had the time to write and publish a book and these women are in hiding. we have much more ahead. stay with us. > we have much mor. stay with us the relentless, destructive, pressure campaign on state and local officials was all based on a lie. donald trump knew it. he did it any way. he did it any way.
tomorrow, on thursday. and that one starts at 3:00 p.m. eastern. i don't know. but it will be. and we will have live coverage of it again. another primetime recap here thursday night 8:00 p.m. on msnbc. it will be me and a cast of thousands will do one of these specials, bring you all the highlights from that day's hearing. ♪♪ it is the new pattern or a pattern in our lives to worry what will happen on saturdays because we have various groups come by. >> and it had his name, you committed treason, may god have mercy op your soul with a slowly twisting give of a noose. >> then some people broke into my daughter-in-law's home and my son has passed. she's a widow. and has two kids. and so we're very concerned about her safety also. >> there are people at her home. and they just started pushing their way through, claiming that they