tv The Beat With Ari Melber MSNBC June 28, 2022 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
she will not be forgotten for a very, very long time. it was too much to digest ine even in our two hours which is why tonight we'll be back for a special exended the recap and analysis of the testimony with my primetime friends and colleagues led by the one and only rachel maddow. it starts at 8:00 p.m. eastern. be there for that. thank you for letting us into your hopes during these unbelievable types. we're so grateful. now ari melber take over on that historic day. i'm going to go upstairs and watch. >> i'll see you at 8:00. thank you, nicole, and thank you at home for joining us. congressional testimony today was unlike any other, and that's why our program right now is going to be a little different. we're going to show you a crucial extended excerpt of the newly released testimony by white house aide cassidy hutchinson who was repeatedly in the room or at the door during some of the most pivot and incriminating parts of the now
infamous insurrection. she drew on the front row seat to provide new damning details of the attempted coup. today, this was the sixth insurrection hearing. we tried to cover them precisely. the first hearing detailed violent crimes by many, though sometimes without clear causal links to trump. another hearing shows the liability of trump appointees and lawyers raising questions about donald trump's own role. other hearings featured republicans from pence's office at the state level and on this program we report how some parts of some of those hearings did fall short. those hearings all had in their own way very important material, but not every hearing has been a blockbuster when it comes to evidence. today's hearing delivered the evidence. firsthand smoking gun evidence on trump's mind and overt acts for violence in the attempted
coup. let me repeat that reporting up front. proving crime requires proving the state of mind and overt action. today's hearing features and featured a loyal trump aide's firsthand eyewitness testimony on trump's state of mind and actions. hutchinson testifying trump knew those supporters that he had summoned were armed. he said so. he expected their violence and basically said, in closed company, but overheard in a manner that's now been delivered under oath, he said that would be fine because that violence, if it commenced would be directed at others, not him. hutchinson testifying trump tried to order the secret service to admit armed supporters into his crowd where then they could go to the capitol, a likely illegal order to help armed rioters who would then criminally trespass and criminally attack police and try to do much, much worse against the united states government. that is new today. that is evidence under oath from
a trump loyalist that donald trump abused his power over the government and the secret service and law enforcement to try to overthrow the government and get law enforcement injure ord killed. among other things, just imagine being in the secret service or law enforcement and hearing your commander in chief order the illegal admittance of armed people, including reports of ar-15s in the crowd, and we know what those can do -- while you risk your life and limb to protect that commander in chief. the testimony and now revealed white house documents show trump intended to join them at the capitol. he ordered the agents to take him to the capitol. before we turn to this excerpt, remember, these hearings, possibly most consequential hearing today, these are not about what anyone thinks of donald trump. and they're not about what you guesstimate seems obvious about how it all went down if we pay attention and have our own
ideas. this is a congressional investigative subpoena-backed process. it's already led to some indictments. so today, this hearing is about the actual evidence and record, which is new and damning, specifically regarding the former president. >> i remember looking at him saying, rudy, would you explain what's happening on the 6th. we're going to the capitol. it's going to be great. the president's going to be there. mark said something to the effect of, there's a lot going on, cass, but i don't know, things might get real, real bad. i recall tony and i having a conversation with mark mentioning knives, guns, in the forms of pistols and rifles. >> the individual is in a tree. he's got blue jeans and a blue jean jacket, and underneath the blue jean jacket, stock of an ar-15. >> bear spray, body armor, spears and flagpoles.
>> two of the individuals in the group at the base of the three near the porta potty they have glock style pistols in their waistband. >> three men walking down the street carrying ar-15s. copy. 4th independence. >> have you talked to the president? tony said yes, sir. >> was he told in that conversation that people couldn't come through the mags because they had weapons? >> correct. >> he was eff'ing furious. >> i don't eff'ing care that they have weapons. they're not here to hurt me. let my people in. they can march to the capitol from here. let the people in. that i can the eff'ing mags away. he wanted it full, and they were angry they weren't letting people through with weapons. >> is it your understanding that the president wanted to take the mags away and said that the armed individuals were not there to hurt him? >> that's a fair assessment. there were many discussions on
the morning of the 6th about the rhetoric of the speech that day. fight for trump. we're going to march for the capitol. i'll be there are if you. fight more me, what we're doing, fight for the movement. >> we're going walk down, and i'll be there with you. we're going to walk down to the capitol. >> it was becoming clear to school bus the secret service that capitol police officers were getting overrun at the security barricades outside the capitol building, and they were having -- they were short people. >> staff believed that mogul, the president, was, quote, going to the capitol. >> we have a breach of the capitol. breach of the capitol! we've lost the line. we've lost the line. >> when president trump left the stage at 1:10, the staff knew that rioters had invaded the inaugural stage. >> i called mr. renato to confirm we were not going to the capitol. we were not going up to the capitol. >> we were not going up to the capitol amidst the march, the
breach, the violence against the officers. it was red alert level, and then the other part that is most significant today and mos y daing for donald trump, accused of crimes in office, is that when the agents refused his insistent repeated requests he join the armed protesters, who some of the agents say he wanted to be admitted armed so they could do whatever it was they all planned to do together, the agents refused for donald trump and then president trump's safety. we learned today the extent -- absolutely extreme extent that trump acted, and keep in mind, if a different person inside the government did this, had physical contact, initiated a physical clash with an agent, they would not only be out of a job, they would be detained on the spot. here's more of what he learned in the bombshell evidence against donald trump today. >> bobby had relayed to him, we're not. we don't have to assets to do it. it's not secure.
we're going back to the west wing. the president had very strong, very angry response to that. tony described him as being irate. the president said something to the effect of i'm the eff'ing president. take me up to the capitol now, to which bobby responded, sir, we have to go back to the west wing. the president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. mr. engle grabbed his arm, said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. we're going back to the west wing. we're not going to the capitol. mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge towards mr. bob he engle. when mr. renato recounted to story toward me he motioned his
clavicles. >> nick, what is the level of this testimony as criminal evidence? >> it's pretty spot-on. i mean, what we didn't know about before today, and we had a hunch -- at least it was mybidd. he was not going to send the electoral votes back to the states. he wasn't going to disregard them. so, what trump -- what it showed today was trump as final game plan was to use violence, was to stop the vote of the electoral count through violence. >> is this -- i'm just pressing you on thisser if precision. in your mind, is this the first time we have had an eyewitness inside the trump white house directly link him to encouraging armed violence? >> that's right. before, we had nobody, not -- forget inside the white house, we had no evidence linking trump
to the violence. remember, at his second impeachment hearing, he was claiming that his statements at the ellipse were simply guaranteed by the first amendment. he was trying to encourage his supporters who were disappointed and the fact that he lost the election. >> let's dig in on that. in fairness, there are politicians who say all kinds of things in speeches. the supreme court has actually given a wide berth for that. so at that impeachment, outside the white house, there are people who said, they read that as directly incitement. incitement is a crime. other people said, well, that's a tough case to prove, or ties go to the president. >> except -- >> today, nick, you have the white house aide loyal to trump in the room on site detailing that when he was told people had weapons, he tried to further their access to then be on site with those weapons and what do people do with weapons?
use them. >> it's a whole different story. it would be different if he was talking to an aged group of people that were there in their walkers. that was not the situation. he knew that people had ar-15s, glocks, other kinds of weapons, yet he was using language he did, which his own counsel -- the counsel to the president told him he should not use. >> before i bring in michelle, just to you as a prosecutor, would that be an illegal order? >> yes, it would be. i think what you've got now is a setup for a real thorough grand jury investigation. we know this happened. now the question is, what can you prove? what's hearsay? what's admissible? but you've got people like meadows who could be put into a grand jury, and if he refused to cooperate, the government can give him immunity. you've got lots of people that were privy to all of this, and you've got the makings of a real case against donald trump at this point. >> your point about meadows,
interesting. he was seeking a pardon, which means he was aware of criminal liability. if there's a real probe, if merrick garland looks at this and says, i have to go further, meadows may get a pardon by other means. immunity is a different route. i gave nick several legal questions i give you, your overall reaction to today? >> you said before this is not about what you guesstimated what was happening with donald trump. i think that, you know, a good rule of thumb with trump is that whatever you think of him, the truth is probably worse. it won't be a prize to anyone who's seen me on the show or read my column that i have a low opinion of donald trump, but i was still shocked to see him lunging at his secret service. i also thought -- this wasn't the most legal salient details but he often threw plates around and pulled out the table cloth,
which i think is interesting only because there's been so many tell-alls about this white house that we assume we know most of what went on, and i think we now know that there's all kinds of stuff that was going on that we had no idea. the other thing that really struck me about the testimony is that we've seen -- there's been reporting already that donald trump had said, in response to the "hang mike pence" chants, maybe he deserves it. i don't think we knew before he had said that and then sent the tweet saying, mike pence didn't do what needed to be done, which was one of the ones that was read by the rioters and they interpreted as further encouragement from the president. >> michelle, you promised us nonlegal analysis, but you have landed in some very salient legal points, which is, again, whether people like it or not, there are high bars to this thing, which means saying or sending out certain types of
remarks on their own, even vicious thing you want to hear from a president, are not crimes. you pointed tout advanced corrupt knowledge of the threat, who's on site. doing that, that changes everything, just as in a criminal case, nick, trying to light a cigarette randomly is not usually by itself a crime. that's just smoking up. but if you have reason to know that the room is full of gasoline and your enemy is in there and you light the cigarette and toss it into the room, the action -- that's why i mentioned the overt act -- defined with the criminal intent is everything. the difference between an accident and running someone over with a car. i want to say in the introduction to the next piece of testimony i want your reaction to. this is the heart of the incriminating evidence. trump knew his supporters were harmed. the aide said not only did he
not care, but listen to how that figure into the his plotting and plans for the day. >> he felt the mags were at fault for not letting everybody in. he wanted it full, and he was angry we weren't letting people through the mags with weapons. but we were in the offstage announced tent i was part of a conversation -- i was in the vicinity of a conversation where i overheard the president say something to the effect of, i don't care that they have weapons. they're not here to hurt me. take the eff'ing mags away. let my people in. they can march tot capitol from here. let my people in. take the mags away. >> again, nick, on the evidence. he knows they're armed and instructs law enforcement and the secret service agents, take the eff'ing metal detector away so they can get closer to agents, police, and ultimately the capitol. is that evidence of a crime? >> of course. i mean, what he's doing there is basically -- he says they're not after me, so who are they after?
they're after, of course, the people in the house and senate, the people that he wants to get back at who are not going to do his bidding on the electoral votes. so, yeah, sure, that is absolutely. i suppose what he could argue is that, well, he just wanted to have a bigger crowd there for the press. but the fact is, he knew that they had weapons. he knew that they were going to be around him, and he also knew that they weren't coming for him, which kind of implies he knew what this plot was all about from the beginning some . so again, there's more work for a grand jury to do. there's an interesting tidbit that came up about our friend roger stone and the outreach to him, that he was in the war room at the time. and i think that is going to be a little tidbit that's going to get more play at one of the other hearings. but we certainly knew that the chief of staff wanted to go to that meeting. he wound up being on the phone instead. he did call roger stone.
>> and yeah, and we'll get to that. and i know you're following every lead. on the removal of metal detectors, to make it easier to bring weapons, michelle, again, sometimes people don't like it when i say this, but legally there is an individual right to bear arms in this country. that is what the supreme court found. you can bear arms in certain contexts. so when we analyze these situations, if someone can say their goal and intent was only self-defense, then that can be lawful. the problem for donald trump, he's not talking about self-defense. he says the weapons will be used against other politicians. the target is someone else. the target removes the defense of self-defense if you're using weapons to target people. >> i mean, look, i think that donald trump frequently uses his narcissism towards reality as an alibi to say, of course, i just wanted more people in the crowd. i just -- i didn't want to say
bad things about my supporters. kind of the problem with establishing a corrupt state of mind with donald trump is his connection to reality has always been called into question. i think that's clear here is he knew exactly what they intended to do, and he encouraged them, knowing that they were armed he encouraged them to march on the capitol any way, and at every stage -- as we heard from this witness that when she tried to say, they're about to breach the gates. they're about to overrun the building, mark meadows basically replied to her, the president thinks they're doing the right thing. >> mm-hmm. pff. yeah. they're telling me we're running over on time but i have one more thing i'd like to show, so lightning round, in a sentence,ure reaction to how
this matters in a world. we live in a time of great intensity and fatigue and cynicism. we talked about this before, michelle. people don't know which thing to care about and which thing is going to matter. but i want to show as this place out around the country today, this bombshell work saw reaction from veteran people, including watergate journalists, other people on this network and others. over on fox news, we checked, there was one moment where coming out of it there was actually a stunned silence, and i will say as someone who talks too much, maybe for a livingening when you stun people into silence sometimes that says more than anything they could say on a network where they lie about the day. we just want to show this reaction. >> the testimony in and of itself is really, really powerful. >> she gave the picture of a mad king. >> civility is not a sign of weakness, a lesson apparently lost on our former president.
>> he is a criminal and a seditious president in the united states. >> all of this is obviously riveting. it's very dramatic. >> it is worse than we ever imagined. >> this hearing was billed to be a wow moment, and it certainly seems to me delivered on that wow. >> in this segment, final thought in a sentence, nick? >> facts matter. evidence matters. >> i think her bravery matters. when you think of, you know, the cowardice of so many of the other people around him, including mike flynn who pled the fifth when asked if he believed in the transfer of peaceful power. her bravery show his even in a cynical country that can break through. >> low bar, far louer than her boss, who ask for a pardon because he thinks he needs a pardon. though pardons are for criminals. ran long. thanks to both of you. coming up, other revelations
we're going to walk through. a bombshell about tampering. people pleading the fifth. people coming out on the record as tyrants. michael steele is here. a trump filmmaker we learned got a new subpoena. he'll be reacting for the first time right here on "the beat." stay with us. here on "the beat" stay with us and hair, skin & nails. new one a day multi+. my a1c stayed here, it needed to be here. ruby's a1c is down with rybelsus®. my 't at goal, now i'm down with rybelsus®. mom's a1c is down with rybelsus®. (♪ ♪) in a clinical study, once-daily rybelsus® significantly lowered a1c better than a leading branded pill. rybelsus® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't take rybelsus® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2,
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that focuses on optimizing insulin levels. we tackle the cause of weight gain, not just the symptom. when you have good metabolic health, weight loss is easy. i always thought it would be so difficult to lose weight, but with golo, it wasn't. the weight just fell off. i have people come up to me all the time and ask me, "does it really work?" and all i have to say is, "here i am. it works." my advice for everyone is to go with golo. it will release your fat and it will release you. welcome back to our special coverage as we track what many experts see as the most incriminating day of insurrection testimony against donald trump. here's what that same white house aide who we have been covering discussed about the top lawyer in the trump white house, the white house counsel said about concerns about crimes being committed if they went ahead and marched on the capitol with the president.
>> i saw mr. cipollone right before i walked out that morning, and mr. cipollone said something to the effect of, please make sure we don't go up to the capitol, cassidy. keep in touch with me. we're going to get charged with every crime imaginable if we make that movement happen. >> and do you remember which crime mr. cipollone was concerned with? >> in the days leading up to the 6th we had concerns about obstructing justice or defrauding the electoral count. >> crimes, obstructing justice, defrauding the electoral count. before the 6th. that's not the portrait of a riot that got off control. it's a portrait amongst the white house, this a knew crimes were in the works. they were worry at crimes on the 6th. it's a whole other part of
today's testimony we have not gotten to yet. michael steele is here when we back in just one minute. ck in j. so you can go and see all those lemons, for less. ♪ i want to rock and roll all night ♪ ♪♪ ♪ i want to rock and roll all night ♪ applebee's late night. because half off is just more fun. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. hi, i'm pat and i'm 75 years old. we live in the mountains so i like to walk. i'm really busy in my life; i'm always doing something. i'm not a person that's going to sit too long. in the morning, i wake up and the first thing i do is go to my art studio. a couple came up and handed me a brochure on prevagen. i've been taking prevagen for about four years. i feel a little bit brighter and my mind just feels sharper. i would recommend it to anyone. it absolutely works. prevagen. healthier brain. better life.
i remember pat saying something to the effect of, mark, we need to do something more. they're literally calling for the vice president to be eff'ing hung. and mark had responded something to the effect of, you heard him, pat, he thinks mike deserves it. he doesn't think they're doing anything wrong. >> more incriminating testimony there about donald trump thinking that assassinating the vice president was proper. some of the most shocking testimony was not only the legal criminal evidence, which we have been walking through, but as we bring in michael steele, it is also a portrait of a trump presidency so unhinged it goes farther than so much of the supposedly shocking and terrible things we've already heard. donald trump basically completely out of control, physically, mentally, emotionally. throwing tantrums in the white
house residence like when he learned that his once loyal attorney general had publicly fact checked his loss and referred to the fact that there was no major voter fraud. >> there was ketchup dripping down the wall and a shattered porcelain pretty on the floor. the valet articulated that the president was extremely angry at the attorney general's a.p. interview and had thrown his lunch against the wall. there were several times throughout my tenure with the chief of staff that i was aware of him throwing dishes or flipping the table cloth. >> flipping the table cloth. amidst the attempt to overthrow the government he's flipping over the table with this deeply trumpian testimony of ketchup drip, dripping, dripping down the wall.
we knew there was a coup attempt. that much has been clear, and it's been referred to as a sloppy coup. now we know how sloppy it was. if it wasn't a serious news day, i might quote audrey graham to say, you see how sticky it gets i'm joined by michael steele. it's too serious for me to do that, so i won't. but the ketchup on the walls, it's like a cross between the final days of nixon, the shining, and then donald trump physically clashing with secret service agents, which is a combo that i don't know that we've ever seen documented in american history. beyond the law, which we've spent half the program on, i want your reaction on what it means to have such an unhinged president. if this person returned to power what would that mean with the control of the nukes and everything else?
>> it's obvious if he returned to power we're all screwed. all screwed at this point. because he will have around him people who will be much more protective of his self-interest and self-image, who will, without hesitation or any independent thought, do what he wants them to do. so i'm not -- we won't even go there. that's just not even something that's worth musing about at this stage because the evidence coming out is so damning. yes, we've all understood donald trump to be unhinged on a number of levels for some time, for a while. this is further verification for a lot of that. where the scale tips for me is the cipollones and mark meadows. paicularly cipolle. no, we're not -- don't go up on the hill that day, right? because we could get charged with all kinds of crimes. state of mind, baby. state of mind. i mean, so it's -- now
everybody's focused on, what's trump's state of mind? okay, that's important, but equally if not more so are the people around him who have been charged to do certain things to carry out certain orders, even down to a secret service agent who's told to drive the car to the hill because i'm the eff'ing president. and so i think what ms. hutchinson did today was give us a behind the curtains view of not just the mental state of the white house, be the actions and the sort of scrambling -- >> michael, let's bear down on what you're saying. the scrambling in that moment, as someone who's been up close and personal -- remind folks, you ran the republican party. you know a lot of these individuals. when you hear the new testimony he was grabbing the wheel,
physically clashing with the agent to get to the capitol, is it your interpretation then that he wanted to get to the capitol in that hour in that desperate intensity because he thought if he got there to join the armed insurrectionists he might pull this off and stay in office? >> yes, absolutely. absolutely. it's like general washington or napoleon or any great leader going to the head of the crowd, the head of the army to sort of surge them over. for trump, that mattered to him. but what it goes back to, the scrambling in the moment, trying -- wanting to go to the hotel and being told not to, the president wanting to go to the hill and being told not to, it begs the question -- i'm curious more now about the conversations between meadows, cipollone, and mccarthy. i'm more interest in the how those individuals communicated
on that day. and now -- i understand why kevin doesn't want the i the peer. i understand why cipollone doesn't want to talk, because you now have a lot more to dig into with them about than they may be willing to talk. you thought flynn was the king of the fifth amendment. i bet these two would come with the fifth amendment tat today on their forehead. >> right, along away couple tat today tears for democracy. here's again, hutchinson on when they had the grab the arm and that whole exchange which you were discussing. take a listen. >> mr. engle grabbed his arm, said, sir, you need take your hand off the steering wheel. we're going back to the west wing. we're not going to the capitol. mr. trump then used his free hand to lunge towards bobby engle. when mr. renato recounted the story to me, he motioned towards
his clavicle. >> part of my job is to ask the straightforward question so we don't lose the threat. if a nonpresident did this, any other person, civilian or employee, in your experience -- that, clashing with a secret service agent, what would happen to them? >> likely would have been arrested in the moment. in fact, if that occurred inside of the presidential vehicle, it would have stopped, which the video shows it did, because people need to keep -- when they leave, then it stops, that's the moment all of that's happening, right? at that moment any other person would have been pulled out of the truck and arrested but it's the president, so that's not what happens here. it's a different circumstance, and the agents handled it the best they can under those circumstances, but that doesn't mean other authorities shouldn't look at that. and that there could be ramifications from that. >> how could you not? michael, to let you finish, he
talk about, oh, he could shoot someone on fifth avenue. >> absolutely. >> and again, i've made this point -- while serving as president, the federal government does not indict the sitting president. that's a law school hypothetical you could deal with. he's not president anymore, and there's a question of if you're above the law or not. i'll let you finish us up, but cipollone said multiple crimes. he has a physical clash with the agent. he is trying to admit armed people who we know then committed crimes against officers, who are also on trial for seditious conspiracy. at what point do we stop talking about if donald trump gets committed for a crime and start looking at whether there's a multicount indictment here? >> i think that's very much the space that we're about to walk into, with another piece to be delivered by the committee as eluded to by liz cheney today about witness tampering, trying
to bring pressure on some of these witnesses. >> and we have that coming up. >> so there's a lot here that the justice department can chew on. >> right. >> because they would -- it would be a meal for them if they were dealing with anybody else other than donald trump, than a former president. there would be no hesitation about the kind of case that would be lining up right now. >> you lay it out. nixon wanted a pardon because he didn't think it was impossible to be charged. a lot of people around trump wanted pardons. add to the list mr. seal. we have a lot coming up we haven't gotten to yet. the fbi patting down the coup mastermind. more of the interactions we are learn about as the investigates build on what happened in congress and the testimony about the pardons. we have a january 6th committee member here live next. e a janua member here live next. ♪♪
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our coverage continues now with this blockbuster hearing. the top aide for donald trump up through january 6th, mark meadows, wanted a pardon specifically for what he did related to the insurrection. >> did rudy giuliani ever suggest that he was interested in receiving a presidential pardon related to january 6th? >> he did. >> ms. hutchinson, did white house chief of staff mark meadows ever indicate he was interest in the receiving a presidential pardon related to january 6th in. >> mr. meadows did seek that pardon, yes, ma'am. >> i'm joined now by congressman pete aguilar of california, a member of the january 6th committee after this block buster hearing today. this can for joining us. >> this can for having me, ari.
>> what was the most important new evidence in your view today? >> well, i don't think that there was -- it's tough to put my finger on one thing, but clearly in this hearing what was laid out very clearly by ms. hutchinson was that the president knew that this was going to be a violent attack. he and his top advisers knew there could be violence at the capitol and did nothing. not just during the 187 minutes while the attack was going on, but they knew that this mob was capable of this days in advance. >> yeah, congressman -- i'm only jumping in to say -- the funny part of your job is you've probably known much of this longer than everyone else, so we're actually asking to you predate your own mind. because it's new to the world as we've emphasized in our coverage, he was saying before the rally, get the armed people in here, and i'm going to go with them to the capitol. when did you first learn that, and what does that say about his liability? >> i think committee members
have had a lot of these detales, and like we have said from the beginning this is about piecing these together, putting this puzzle together. but we have had some of these details for a little while, throughout these hearings, and the five hearings we have had to date. but clearly this is good work that we are trying to lay out to the american public. >> understood. let's look at this moment where former member of the u.s. military, a convicted member of donald trump's administration, mike flynn, basically in public on record sounds like he supports violent dictatorship that overthrow the government because he pleads the fifth on the most basic democratic question, a peaceful transfer of power. >> do you believe the violence on january 6th was justified morally? >> take the fifth. >> do you believe the violence on january 6th was justified legally? >> fifth.
>> general flynn, do you believe in the peaceful transition of power in the united states of america? >> the fifth. >> what does that mean? >> the fact that a former general can't even say he believes in a peaceful transfer of power is scary and alarming, and americans should be frightened by it. but the fact that this individual was in the former president's ear so much during this time period and over years is also equally alarming. but he wasn't the only conspiracy theorist in donald trump's ear. >> yeah. congressman, when this impromptu surprise hearing came through, it was different than any other hearing. until yesterday, the witness' identity was secret. the statement put out online referred to recently obtained evidence that necessitated sudden rollout today.
what was that recently obtained evidence? >> ms. hutchinson has been incredibly generous with her time and being deposed multiple times. there was information that was gathered through those conversations that led us to feel this was an important step -- >> respectfully, just to make sure we're clear on this, those are older depositions. those were available of course last week, not on a 24-hour turnaround, so what was the recent part? >> we always said our schedule was fluid. we felt this was important to share with the american pulic, it was timely and important. we didn't think it could wait on a congressional calendar. >> i guess what i'm asking -- and again, just doing my job, because i've already said to the audience how important today's hearing was, but on the process i guess what i'm really asking to pin it was, was there something actually new in the last 24 to 48 hours or have some cynics or critics said, was this
something to seem urgent if the understood lying material could have been schedule in the normal procedure? >> this is a normal procedure. a hearing we noticed. from a process standpoint, the committee just wants to make sure we're doing our due diligence and we're not going to be guided by the congressional story alone. we want to tell this story and share it with the american public because there's so much at stake in protecting american democracy. that's the motivation behind the schedule. >> okay. appreciate you taking all the questions. it was certainly a newsworthy hearing new york question about that, sir. and a busy day for you. so congressman aguilar, thanks for making time. >> thanks, ari. absolutely. we're going fit in a break and then we have something huge. the man you see on your screen, the trump filmmaker just got hit with a subpoena down in georgia. we'll have his response. plus, the video surfacing of the fbi going at a coup mastermind. they put his thanes on his head
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the other big point in today's hearing, a warning about witness tampering. one witness telling this committee trump officials have reminded them trump reads transcripts, keep that in mind, during depositions, and the committee recounts a phone call where a witness said quote, a person from trumpland let me know trump wants you to know he's thinking about you. he knows you're loyal. and that you're going to do the right thing when you go in for your deposition. sounds like mob talk. what are they getting at? witness tampering is someone who uses intimidation or corruptly persuades someone to influence,
delay, or prevent testimony in an official proceeding, which this is. a blunt warning from congress about potential new crimes. as all of this is going on, i want to tell you the other big story is this video where you can see federal agents going at trump lawyer and coup mastermind john eastman, the man with his hands on his head as the agents pat him down to make sure he's not a threat and then lawfully, pretty peacefully, take that phone. this is the evidence they are using. they had a search warrant. they showed it to him after taking the phone. this is why mr. eastman and others, there's a warrant being handed to him, are so concerned. he took the fifth amendment. he thinks he has criminal liability, and now, brand-new on video, federal agents treating him like someone with potential criminal evidence. as we have reminded you, you can nlt get a warrant for a phone without proving to an independent judge that the man likely has evidence of a crime on his person. as if that wasn't enough, a new subpoena for filmmaker alex
holder. you may remember he testified to the committee. now he's got subpoenas in the district attorney case in georgia, and he just responded to us about it. >> i have been subpoenaed. i seem to be collecting subpoenas in the last few days. but we are cooperating with any law enforcement or judicial process, and i look forward to meeting them down the line, and we'll see whatever they would like, i will definitely provide. >> as you can tell, we just got that interview, and he says he's collecting subpoenas. we recorded that here on hearing day. we'll play you more of it tomorrow. what you see on the screen, though, is a sign of how this investigative committee's process works. the doj makes independent judgments. they never fined mark meadows for defying the committee. when they get other factual information they have to act on independently, they will. mr. eastman, the one looking at his own subpoena, is the one
facing this kind of scrutiny. if you add it up, you have doj officials and mr. eastman now facing these kind of federal, lawful investigative measures. mr. eastman not under his own authority there. he has to respond to the agents who are armed. he has to turn over his phone because a judge ordered it. now his phone will be reviewed for evidence of a crime, just as mr. navarro and mr. bannon await their criminal trials. justice can be a slow process, and those are those trying to fight it, but the video on the screen combined with today's hearing shows in some quarters it is still proceeding apace. i want to remind you, we will all be back for an 8:00 p.m. recap special. rachel maddow leading it along with our whole team, joy, nicolle, myself and other on the screen. joy will be back with her coverage continuing live right now after this break. continuint now after this break
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tonight on the reidout. >> i was in the vicinity of a conversation where i overheard the president say something to the effect of, i don't f'ing care they have weapons. they're not here to hurt me. take the f'ing mags away. let my people in. they can march to the capitol from here. >> stunning testimony that donald trump not only knew that january 6th was likely to turn violent and did nothing to stop it, he fully intended to lead his armed maga mob into the capitol. to paraphrase our esteemed nbc presidential historian michael beschloss, never before have we heard testimony this shocking about a president of the united states. and we begin tonight with donald trump's determination to personally lead the insurrection at the capitol