tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC July 1, 2022 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT
week including a crucial conversation about what it means to be a whistleblower in donald trump's republican party with one of the most famous trump era whistleblowers. plus, the velshi book club's back, featuring gerard connally, offering the beautiful book, born and raised, a memoir about his own experience of being outed to his baptist family and being forced to choose between anti gay so-called conversion therapy or risk losing his family. time now for the last word. jason johnson's influence tonight. good evening sir. >> good to see you, ali. welcome. i am going to, i'm going. to tonight is a lot. it's a lot. tonight, breaking news about the january six investigation it's at the shocking testimony by top meadows cassidy hutchison about how trump got to the capital for the earth's are action appeared to be, corroborated, surprise surprise. details coming. up but it's a good moment to remind you to underline for you,
to continue to be shocked about the january six committee hearings are producing, the next coup is underway. the groundwork is being laid. the january six committee hearings have shattered the illusion that the attack on the capitol was a spontaneous spur in the moment outburst at a trump rally. what happened on january six was the culmination of weeks of planning, of an intensive, multipronged effort involving fake electors, state legislators, and a pressure campaign on the american vice presidents to overturn the will of the american voters. this was one part of the plot. we kind of zoomed out and now we see the full picture. but after the anti-democratic efforts of trump world around in the 2020 election, republicans are, right now, working on how to break the system to stop democrats from winning, even if they get more votes, and we -- they want to stop them from ever assuming or ever using power. and that is an attack, not just on democrats, but on the
voters. by subverting the voters chosen leader from actually governing. another term to be defined by the revoking of constitutional rights for women, the supreme court -- ominous preview of what is to come in the fall. they announced they will hear a case called more versus harper. republicans in north carolina with the supreme court to give the state legislature, which they control, the final say in setting rules for federal elections. the way things currently stand, it's the state supreme court that has final authority, as often forced act as a backstop to keep elections fair. what's more, these voting rights protections were added to the north carolina constitution way back in 1970 by the state legislature. as a prominent election lawyer rick hanson points out, how can the state supreme court has usurped the legislatures power when the legislature itself brought this provision into the state constitution, knowing full well that the state constitution is interpreted by the state supreme court?
if the u.s. supreme court led by radical republican majority, which is put into place under questionable rules, rules in the north carolina republicans favor could open the door to unchecked partisan gerrymandering -- all across the country. make no mistake, this is all part of a broad effort by the minority to limit the power of the majority in this country. there's no better example of this and what's been happening in wisconsin over the past few years. wisconsin voters elected a democrat, tony evers as governor in 2018. ever since then, a republican controlled legislature has been working to stop the wisconsin voters chosen governor from, you know, governing. republican controlled state senate has refused to confirm about dozens of his appointees. the governor evers offer said they blocked 42% of his 299 appointees. and a new ruling by the wisconsin supreme court, is likely to make a the situation
worse. this decision comes after a political appointee from the previous administration of the states environmental policy board has refused to step down. and now, the state supreme court is saying, that's fine, they've ruled that one political appointees don't have to step down until a replacement confirm by the senate. meaning that republicans can block evers appointments indefinitely by refusing to vote on them. it sounds a lot like when mitch mcconnell did the same thing to president barack obama even after he nominated merrick garland, to supreme court in 2016. that's what it sounds like to me. and just like that decision laid bare the minority rule that is being controlled democracy, this decision of wisconsin is basically saying the same thing to voters. the republicans don't say -- they don't care what you want. this isn't just politics, this isn't just partisan bickering, this is an attack on the voters of wisconsin, by blocking democrats from exercising their mandate, you know the one you get from the voters, republicans are sabotaging
democracy itself. it is an unsustainable situation, it's likely to come to a breaking point sooner or later. joining us now is wisconsin lieutenant the governor lieutenant barnes. he's also a democratic governor -- candidate. thank you for joining us this evening. >> thank you for having me, good to see. you >> have to start with this, what our regular people saying when you are traveling around the state? what do they say about the republican party in wisconsin? because, you know, this recent ruling is the state supreme court saying, hey, look, these guys can basically stay in power forever. but this isn't the first time that the republicans in the wisconsin state legislature, despite the fact that the state is very blue, the legislator tends to be very red. this isn't the first, second, or third time they have tried to block you and tony evers from governing the state. what do people say when you walk around the state about the republican party? >> it's not even close to the first time. as soon as we were elected in
2018, they went in a special session to limit the authority. at first, regular voters were frustrated at the politics. now they are frustrated at the absolute threat that it poses to our democracy. and that's because of gerrymandering and what they're getting away with, and the reason why our state senate looks the way it does is because we have not -- that's what's so important that we have a u.s. senate that takes our democracy seriously, takes voting rights seriously, and take the issue of outline gerrymandering seriously. that's why this november, in wisconsin, it's going to be important. >> i want to go into more detail about this specific ruling. the state supreme court justice -- excuse me this supreme justice said, look, if someone is appointed to a position, they don't have to go until and replacement has been appointed. but the replacement cannot be appointed until they are voted on, and the republicans who
control the senate say, we are not going to vote on anybody that tony evers votes for us. what are the conversations like with your state senate, and beyond that, when you see that sort of thing happening in the state, does it give you any pause about way to the future is like for this country, when we're dealing with a republican party that is so anti-democratic? >> i will tell, you that is what makes people frustrated, they are tired of political games, they are tired of -- costs are rising on families in wisconsin. people are finding it difficult to just get by. and all republicans want to do is [inaudible] and help out people. that's what i heard. that's what my understanding is. because i do share their concerns. i am a working class candidate. i have been through -- i have gone through exactly what people are dealing with. and again, it goes back to why this race is so important. gerrymandering and getting
rolled in states like wisconsin, things will be totally different. that's why i need everybody who is watching today to go to mandela barnes.com. help us out, help us get rid of them. because you mentioned it's happening at the state level, but even at the federal level it's even worse because these folks are trying to absolutely subvert our democracy. that is what is at stake right now. and we cannot take our foot off the gas. i'm so incredibly proud of the momentum we have i'm incredibly proud of the response that we have been getting from people all over the place. we are talking about a political games that is being played, we are not talking -- it's not about left or right to them. it's not about right or wrong, it's about people who benefit at the top and the rest of us were left at the bottom. >> i have to ask you this, you are running for senate, your -- the primary is not for several months now. you are one of the democrats running for the democratic nomination. if you were to win, you would face ron johnson. i just want to ask you some key things given what we have seen coming out of supreme court.
would you be in favor, where you elected, if you become a nominee and you get in the senate, would you be in favor of a carve out, a filibuster car, about for voting rights and for abortion rights if you are elected to the u.s. senate for the state of wisconsin? >> we are just under six weeks from the primary election, but i tell, you there are a lot of opportune people who haven't had the chance to go visit mandela barnes.com, because we will -- i am in favor of the carveouts, but i do think that the filibuster has outlived its useful life. >> mandela barnes, thank you so much for joining us on the last four this evening. >> thank you. >> we joining us now is jennifer reuben, a washington post opinion columnist and an msnbc political analyst. thank you so much for joining us tonight. so, look, i am looking at this republican nonsense all over the country. and i have said, consistently, i do not think the republican party, i think they are a dime store front for a coup that is called the mulga movement. but when you see these things at the state level, when you see what is happening in
wisconsin, when you see what they are trying to do in north carolina, whether republicans saying amongst themselves? i mean, arguably, everybody in the republican party isn't anti democratic, so whether these suburban and these former republican saying, saying, i don't think this kind of stuff, i hope we can fix it later on. or are they just willing to go along with the anti-democratic movement because they are pro-life and, you know, they don't like gay marriage? >> i think that's exactly right. i think these people were for democracy when they thought people were in concert with their own values and elections meant that they got to institute the policies. now that they are apparently rooted in the 50s, not the 1950s, but the 1850s, they realize that they have an agenda that is not sellable to the american people. as a result they have to do everything they can to suppress the vote, to subvert the vote, to use anti-democratic mechanisms like the filibuster. you're a student of american
history, you know the american system has always been the riots built into the system, that's how we have the electoral college, that's how we have the senate. but when those mechanisms are then used to oppress the majority, then you turn democracy on its head, and then you have a crisis of credibility for democracy. and you have a supreme court for example that doesn't act like a court, but that throws out of president, makes wild swings in policy decision-making, then you are not operating in a consent of the government, you are operating with a full -- let's be frank about this, these are very conservative, mostly rural, christian, white men. that is the philosophy they have and that is the regime that they are trying to instill. so democracy is not their friend. frankly, i don't think they give a darn, so long as they get what they get but they came to get. >> it's interesting you mention
the sort of rural christian man who have a subset from robert jones, founder of the public religion research institute, and he talks about the fact that, you know, we must see these developments for what they. our expressions of raw political power by desperate white christian minority whose belief in its own divine righteousness has unmoored it from democratic commitments. and we must grasp the danger they represent for everyone else. i need to ask you, jennifer, look, i'm a professor of political science, and not a professor of religion. i don't know how wet we are seeing right now could be explained as christiane 80. what i see is white identity politics with sort of a patina of christianity on top of it, but this is sort of about a white supremacist movement that is using christiane 80 as a sort of cover. do you think that there is some moral or christian argument that could be made to these kinds of people to change the perspective? because maybe they couldn't -- you could get someone to look
at the religion differently, but you cannot get someone to look at whiteness differently in america. >> it would be nice if it could work. but robert jones, who one of the great historians on this issue, has shown that white had been delicacy always intertwined their christiane it with a sense of nationalism and racism. and you can't untangle them, that's why they have this very hierarchical, very oppressive, very non compassionate, none empathetic approach to society. but, i think what he is getting at is exactly right, they are not comfortable in a modern world, which is diverse, which is more secular than they would like it to be, which is more urban. therefore, they are having a visceral reaction, which is, you know, it began with barack obama, the notion that black man can be president, was too much for them to handle. and ever since they have been this jack, and what they say to themselves is, not everyone should vote. we have too many voters.
really, only the people who are informed should vote. war, only real americans should vote. this is something that they use, real america. that is nothing -- it's basically coming out and saying we think some americans are more american than other americans. and that's the philosophy they have. it's dangerous, and i think, if nothing else, this supreme court term has should've woken up the rest of america saying, you guys, if you don't get out there and vote and demand people who will aggressively reform the system, not just -- willing to abolish the filibuster, willing to entertain some structural reforms to the supreme court, we are going to lose this american experiment. so going into the 4th of july, i'm terribly depressed by the supreme court. on the other hand, i see the green shoots of awakening, i see a reaction out there, i see democrats rallying around the themes of freedom, privacy,
self determination, so there is always another election. there is always hope. >> there is always an oh another election, that is something that we cannot necessarily trust the way that things are going. jennifer rubin, thank you so much for joining us on the last word. >> my pleasure. >> coming, up tonight, breaking news about the january six committee investigation. there is a new federal criminal investigation involving, surprise, donald trump. cassidy hutchison was the first to describe -- to describe -- ♪♪ three times the electorlytes and half the sugar. ♪♪ pedialyte powder packs. feel better fast.
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every search you make, every click you take, every move you make, every step you take, i'll be watching you. the internet doesn't have to be duckduckgo is a free all in one privacy app with a built in search engine, web browser, one click data clearing and more stop companies like google from watching you, by downloading the app today. >> cassidy hutchison was the duckduckgo: privacy, simplified.
first to describe how, i rate donald trump, demanded to go to the capitol on january 6th, yelling and lunging forward when a security detail refused to. now to secret service agents tell cnn they heard about the incident from other agents as it circulated within the agency. cooperating that an angry confrontation did in fact occur. like hutchinson, one source, a long time secret service employee, told cnn that the agents relaying the story described trump as demanding and that the former president said something similar to i am the am a president of the united states, you can't tell me what to do. he had sort of lunged ford, it was unclear from the conversations i had that he actually made physical contact, but he might have. i don't know, the source said. nobody said trump assaulted him, they said he tried to look over the seat, for what reason,
nobody has any idea. this comes as we are learning more about potential witness tampering by trump allies reveal by the january six committee. nbc news confirms at least one of the messages can presented in tuesday's hearing was received by cassidy hutchinson. a source familiar with hutchinson's depositions says the person referenced in this message urging her to be, quote, loyal and do the right thing, is former white house chief of staff, mark meadows, shock. or two sources say cassidy hutchison told the committee that she had been contacted by an intermediary to influencers says her testimony. politico and washington post both reported that hutchison provided the committee with the other example of witness intimidation which read in part, quote, but they said to me is, as long as i continue to be a team player, i will continue to stay in good graces in trump world. and they have reminded me a couple of times that trump does read transcripts. i would be it might be the only
thing he reads. pat some baloney might also be on the verge of sitting that with the committee next week. a lawyer familiar with the matter tells nbc news that pat cipollone will probably agree to transcribe an interview, though there is no final agreement yet. and there's breaking news tonight about trump and another criminal probe. trump's media company has been subpoenaed in a federal criminal probe investigating the merger with the special purpose acquisition firm which can delay or even block the deal. goodness gracious, joining us now is frank potion are, and embassy we -- author of trump nation. thank you guys so much. glenn, i will start with you, because i asked this question, it's not just a question on my mind, it's a question on everyone's mind who is not a lawyer and does want to understand what's going on, why has not donald trump been indicted on something yet? i could watch a half a season
of law in order, even sbu, and i could figure out that if you have so many conspiracies, you attempted to intimidate people who testified against, you have been calling on the phone trying to intimidate secretaries of state, how is this man not been indicted on anything at this point? explain this to me, glenn, like i am nine years old. >> jason, i wish i had a compelling explanation for why we have seen donald trump commit crime, after crime in a harsh light of day one. donald trump, i think it's a fair observation has got to be the most investigated and least prosecuted man in our nation's history. here we are, 18 months down the road from watching with our own eyes donald trump incite a violent attack on the capital. lying to his footsoldiers to gin them up, get them angry, and then tell them, if you do
not go up the street to that building where those people are certifying the win of my political opponent and stop them, fight like hell to stop them, you won't have a country anymore. and yet, there has been zero accountability. lawlessness begets lawlessness. and donald trump has gotten away with a lot and then some. and if merrick garland is really as concerned with the legitimacy and the reputation of the department of justice, as i believe he is, he had better start having his federal prosecutors indict at least some of the demand structure of the insurrection. not just the footsoldiers, not just the people that donald trump duped into believing their vote was stolen from them. because absent accountability for donald trump, for his crimes, the 2024 nominee for the presidency will be entitled
to do all of it again with impunity, and i don't think we can survive another go around like that. >> i want to focus a little bit about what's cassidy hutchinson said and how it was responded to and what we have seen in the media over the last 24, 48 hours. she said, look, i heard firsthand accounts, the president knew people were armed. he basically said, i want to march into the capital, but my hands in the, air waving them like i just don't care. and then she talked about the assault in the car. and immediately, the right-wing media ecosystem said, it's not been from, and then it was confirmed. the question i have for you, tim, is when the public hears this story, regular voters, at the generic ohio diner person, or personally i like to say alpha red georgia diners, and when they hear the former president lunch that somebody in a car, is that the kind of thing that diminishes turnout,
doesn't gain interest? what is the impact of someone's revelations on regular voters as they are seeing spill out a cross their screens across the hearings? >> i'm not really prepared yet to say what's the impact on voters will be. i think the real importance in this hearings is its impact on merrick garland, to the extent in which it pushes the department of justice to take the necessary action of indicting donald trump and his cohorts for staging a coup and for a number of other crimes. i think the issue of whether donald trump's ella lunch or not, is largely alert irrelevant. i think what is more important from her testimony are a few salient things, that donald trump knew, days before the january 6th insurrection, that it was possibly going to become violent. that the morning of the insurrection, he was aware that people were entering the ellipse arm. and he actively tried to
prevent them from being turned away and disarmed. third, he wanted to march them down to the capitol. and what no one spoke about -- regardless of whether or not he lunged, was that he was angry and he wanted to be taken to the capital, regardless of whatever else happened in that car. so her testimony is directly connecting him, i think, to crimes and not as a bystander, but as an engineer. as someone orchestrating the act. and that's what is dynamic about her testimony. i think fox and trump's other enablers and supporters are by far trying to turn the discussion now on the drama inside the presidential motorcade because it is distracting. because it actually gets away from this other very simple and clear narrative that demonstrates that donald trump is a criminal. and that he is a threat to democracy, and that he tried to stage a coup. i think there are other issues that are going to focus voters
this fall. i think the supreme court decision on abortion, i think gun violence, inflation are going to be more important to voters than anything that happens inside of that limousine. >> glenn, i want to close with, us because i think it's really key, we've all talked about the idea of, there's so many different crimes, this is just sort of an insane joke arrest crime spree that we have been seeing from donald trump for the last six or seven years, including his new media venture, we are now hearing that federal prosecutors have put an inquiry into true social. what do you think could be the impact of that? again, could we see donald trump get taken down for something if merrick garland is to feckless or disinterested, or cautious to do something about the insurrection, could trump get taken down because he's corrupt with how he was managing his media company and some of the resources? >> in theory, yes, we could have the academic discussion again about will this take down donald trump? but there is also the wire
fraud that has been exposed in recent days, to the $250 million that he billed his supporters out of with a fictitious election defense fund. that actually sounds like a pretty readily probable crime. but here's the thing that i want to watch closely right now, jason. is the witness temperate. because you, know what's, federal prosecutors do exactly nothing quickly in the grand jury. they investigate exhaustively, typically, that's a good thing, except when public safety or our democracy hangs in the balance. then you have to step it up and meet the urgency of the moment. we don't have witness tampering. witness tampering, it strikes right at the heart of the integrity of the investigations congressional and criminal, and when we see witnesses being tempered, but we need to still do is get an fbi agent to interview the witness, put the information affidavit, apply for an arrest warrant, and we vowed to put it or stop to it
in realtime. that's pregnant were gonna be watching for to see if doj response at a timely manner. >> i wish you were in charge of these investigations, glenn kirschner and tim o'brien, thanks so much for joining us tonight. >> thanks, jason. >> coming up, republican governors continue to force extremist anti abortion laws. some prosecutors in those states refused to enforce those laws. that's next, on the last word. n the last word. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are getting clearer ♪ ♪ yeah, i feel free ♪ ♪ to bare my skin ♪ ♪ yeah, that's all me ♪ ♪ nothing and me go hand in hand ♪ ♪ nothing on my skin, that's my new plan ♪ ♪ nothing is everything ♪ keep your skin clearer with skyrizi. most who achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months had lasting clearance through 1 year. in another study, most people had 90% clearer skin at 3 years. and skyrizi is 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. ♪ it's my moment ♪ ♪ so i just gotta say ♪ ♪ nothing is everything ♪
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justices on the supreme court took away a woman's right to use -- yet, it's only been a week -- with an 80 county prosecutors across the country have vowed not to enforce laws that criminalize abortion. here's the thing. many red states are home to blue cities out run by elected democrats, who don't want any part of this draconian, republican agenda. in a joint statement they wrote, we stand together in our firm believe that prosecutors have a responsibility to refrain from using a limited criminal legal system resources to criminalize personal medical decisions. as such, we declined to use our offices resources to criminalize reproductive health decisions and commit to exercise our will settle discretion and refrain from prosecuting those who seek, provide or support abortions. joining us now are to georgia district attorneys who have said they will not prosecute. sherry boston da for dekalb
county, and jared williams, da for the augusta judicial circuit. joining us again is senior editor of law and re-wired news group. sherry, i will start with you. this is a bold move. it's one thing to sort of privately say, hey, i'm not going to privately bother with this, if it comes on my desk. but you put your name on the docket that says, this is some nonsense, i'm not going to participate. tell me a little bit about what your thought process was in putting your name on this and saying, hey, this is not part of my purview in this is not something i'm going to do. >> jason, these are such critical decisions that women and girls are making every day that it was important for them to understand, from the outset, that i was not going to prosecute these types of cases, unlike a case where perhaps, you are arrested, or a nonviolent theft charge or a personal use of some sort of drug, we are we have time to
put you on accountability in court or [inaudible] crime to prosecute. there is time to do that. we are talking about making choices about whether to terminate the pregnancy, we've got a limited time. so, we need to get out ahead of it and make it very clear to our community that they would not be criminal prosecution in the face of making these significant health and personal decisions. >> so -- sorry, we are having a bit of a sound issue. imani i, have to ask you this. part of the issue we are seeing here is if you are not lucky enough to have live in a state with our prosecutor saying, hey, we are not going forward with this, you still have to deal with judges. we have the story earlier this week about president biden cutting a deal with mitch mcconnell, where he is going to appoint a lifetime, anti-choice judge from kentucky in favor of giving to temporary prosecutors.
on the ground, imani, how can the fight against abortion continue? how can the fight to keep choice be alive if you have a president who is always cutting deals with antichoice people? how do regular voters -- how do people have to respond to something like this, this deal that joe biden has just pulled off? >> i think it's an unimaginable betrayal. i think it would have been an unimaginable betrayal at any point in time. but for him to be making this deal and for that news to come forth a week after roe is overturned, i think it's egregious. and i think it was also bad politics. as you said, this is an exchange for two prosecutors who will have a limited term, so you are going to exchange an antichoice federal judge will be on the bench for life, for two-limited term prosecutors? i can imagine in the future if this judge goes far, becomes potentially a supreme court nominee. when imagine, potentially in a few years, this judge could be
sitting in the confirmation hearing saying, i was a bipartisan pick, i was nominated by democratic president. and that, going to help him in your confirmation process -- i just think it's a terrible idea. >> yeah, this is the equivalent of, i'm going to trade you a chunk of gold for two bitcoin. that will work long term. jarred, this is my question -- you are down in georgia, you've made the decision not to prosecute. what kind of pressure are you getting within the state? you still have, at least currently, governor brian kemp. he still have a lot of republicans who are of influence and power in that state. are you getting pressure or threats to change your mind or to back down from the stance you have taken, that you will not prosecute people seeking abortion? >> we are definitely getting pressure. but it doesn't matter. we are going to keep fighting. because in my circuit, women are going to have the same rights as men. it doesn't matter who brings what pressure, we are going to keep fighting. >> i've got to ask this also. because i think this is the thing that i don't think enough
americans understand. in the state of georgia, it's difficult to get access to an abortion anyway. in this imaginary world that republicans would like -- and i will have to ask you this -- what would it take for a district attorney to go after someone? when you have to have somebody -- their mouth that they got abortion, and then bring charges? would you have to have someone, say, caught them on the way to an abortion? how this process work if you are not taking the stance that you were taking? >> it would be untenable regardless. but it's more than just the logistics of prosecuting the abortion case. it's what it does to our actual sexual assault victims. because some of these laws would ask me to turn around in the same breath that i am prosecuting a rapist, incestuous father for raping his daughter and getting your pregnant, turn around and prosecute her and allow the system to re-victimize her. and so how could i possibly
prosecute the case against the person, the actual rapist, the actual sexual assault perpetrator, if the victim is afraid to talk to me because she thinks that i'm going to try to put her in prison for making a health care decision with her doctor? >> and sherry, real quick, to add on to this, we are talking briefly about the limited resources you have as a prosecutor. talk about how much time it would take you want and all these women seeking abortions and potentially, murderers and rapists and bank robbers and all sorts of other people go? >> that's a great question. because right now we are not dealing with a normal case law, the case law backlog that we have -- we had two years with the criminal justice system was shut down. so, we are at a precipice where we are trying to find our way back and deal with violent crime, murders, rapists, child molestation cases, armed robberies -- cases that actually contribute to harm in the community, the
public safety of the community, to violence in the community. and to divert those resources to go after women making health care decisions just doesn't make sense. and it's not what's our communities are asking and begging us to do to keep them safe. >> sherry boston, jared williams and of course gandy imani, thank you so much for joining us tonight on the last word. coming up, an excellent new poll for raphael warnock in georgia. i explain why i think it could be great news for stacey abrams and georgia blue shift, next, on the last word. on the last word
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on it with jardiance. ask your doctor about jardiance. >> when democrats raphael warnock and jon ossoff became georges first democratic senator since 2005, on the heels of joe biden's victory, it shocked a lot of people, including trump republicans who turned their disbelief and the outcome into the big lie, as senator warnock explains in his new book. the former presidents continued claims of widespread voter fraud are just his way of saying that the votes of certain people don't count, can't count, can't be real because the election outcome was not consistent with the mitt of white supremacy. pass the collection play. now, according to a new poll, senator warnock is leading georgia senate race against trump backed ex football player and multi time -- recipient herschel walker. by up to ten points. quinnipiac has senator warnock
at 54% in herschel worker walker at 54 -- statistical tie at 58% to 49 present. the georgia's governor race, stacey abrams is tied with republican governor brian kemp in that same poll. georgia democrats are hoping to continue shifting georgia blue and abortion rights should be that issue to drive voters out in november. earlier this, week stacey abrams tweeted, quote, where it has been done with abortion rights is an assault on our liberties. but we can and will fight back. we can organize. we can vote. joining us now are cliff albright, founder of black voters matter, one of the best dressed people on tv cv, and ceo of a non partisan pair of people to talk about georgia tonight. cliff, i will start with you, just from a straight polling perspective, i've noticed in georgia there's a tendency to
under-poll black and brown voters in general. so, when you see numbers that show, say, raphael warnock up by ten over herschel walker or stacey abrams statistically tied with brian kemp, what does that say to you, knowing full well that there's large numbers of people who haven't been asked and aren't going to be? >> hey, jason, good to be with you tonight. yeah, what it says is, we always have to take into account a couple of points. because at the end of the day, we know that some voters lie, right? we could call it the bradley effect of whatever you want to call. it there are some voters that just don't want to tell you that they're still willing to vote for somebody as disastrous as a camp or even as disastrous as a herschel walker -- so we always know that you've got to have some cushion in some of these polls. that said, there's no mistaking the direhese polls, in both the gubernatorial poll, especially in the senate poll and the senate race there, is a clear direction that these polls are moving in. that's particularly in the
senate race. the more that people learned about herschel walker -- and as you said, his multiple [inaudible] presence, he's got one, not to, but three different children he hasn't been involved, and in spite of his protestation's around fathers that are not involved in children's lives. but apart from that, there's just a range of issues that he has either lied about or is just woefully unprepared to discuss with any legitimacy. and we think the longer that this race goes on, the longer that people declare this race -- , that polling is going to continue. >> nse we, i remember this back in the senate election, for ossoff and warnock, i was watching there the election results. and he said, if warnock it's over 50%, he's going to drag ossoff over the finish line. now we've got this situation where raphael warnock could easily, easily get 51 --
maybe even 52% of the vote -- even when we consider voter suppression and also voter suppression, is there a chance that warnock's weak opponent could end up being sort of a pace car to help stacey abrams? i have a lot trouble believing that there's a lot of camp warnock voters out there. i suspect a lot of people voting for brian kemp might just leave herschel walker blank. but if we're not stages a strong, would he be able to pull stacey abrams over the line or could this still be a split race? >> absolutely. i think that cliff's point is incredibly apt. the idea that these polls are indicating trends that we are seeing in this moment -- and so, when we are thinking about the midterm elections, it is going to be a battle of the [inaudible] that's what we are looking at. if you are looking at an enthusiastic and determined democratic voting base that is enthusiastic about warnock, i don't see a world where that doesn't translate to the abrams
race. but also, to the other exciting races that are on the ticket. talking about secretary of state, -- win and there are some exciting candidates in the state house, with these huge issues on the table. i think that georgians are going to the polls with some demands. and we are talking about protecting bodily autonomy, we are talking about the fact that we are now a -- carry state. we are talking about inflation. these are things that rose to the top in the quinnipiac poll. so, absolutely, with an enthusiastic base that is turning out for senator warnock's reelection, we are very likely to see america's first black woman governor with leader abrams. >> i always say this, cliff, to paraphrase a rapper, these polls ain't -- i never believed that you a
poll that you take in june can still be trusted by the fall. there's still a tremendous amount of voter suppression that happens in the state of georgia. why are the challenges that you still see on the ground in that state? what are some of the limitations that you and black voters matter are fighting against an organizing against, that would keep the will of the people from manifesting itself in the polls in november? >> of course, we've known that there's still incredible levels of voter suppression taking place, in spite of some of the narrative that you heard coming out of the primaries, or even out of the so-called offer elections last year. what we've been able to do, with organizations like nsé's and the entire georgia ecosystem have done an incredible job of educating voters around the voter suppression laws and mobilizing voters -- just because we have been able to have large impact, it doesn't mean that education hasn't had an impact. we know there was a drastically number of -- ballots that were rejected.
and it was disproportionately affecting black voters and other marginalized voters. we know that the suppression is having an impact. we know that in the primaries there were investigators and officers from the secretary of state's department going around the polling places looking to see whether or not people were giving out food and water. but they weren't just looking for it in order to stop it during the election. with they were doing was sending a message that we know is going to have a chilling effect on organizers as well as on voters. anytime you've got the secretary of state sending out armed investigators like that, that has a chilling effect. so we know that the voter suppression is out there. and most importantly is, what we know is -- i'm very confident, very confident that at the end of the day leader abrams is going to have more votes than and senator warnock is going to have more votes. the question is, will they all be able to be counted? that is the biggest question we are facing. or are they going to ease the voter suppression law, speed 200 to, and it's provisions, that enable them to take over county, like fulton county --
they've already stated taken over that process. there's a possibility that come election day that they can decide that, oh, you know what, we can take over this board and appoint a superintendent than out not count those votes. >> right. the issue is not always -- what everyone calling raffensperger a hero because he wishes the couple phone calls from donald trump, this is [inaudible] nsé ufot and cliff albright, thank you so much for joining us on the last right word. >> thank. you >> thank yo and if you don't have the right home insurance coverage, you could be working this out yourself. so get allstate. >> and that's tonight's last
word, i'm jason johnson, thanks for watching, have a good holiday weekend. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts right now. >> tonight, the mob like mentality of a former president. the alarming new details of potential witness intimidation, sent from trump's allies. then, big growing confusion over different states abortion laws, but the white house is planning to do to try to protect reproductive rights across the country. plus, a reflection on the week that changed america, one of our favorite presidential historian says we will not forget where we were on these critical days. as the 11th hour gets underway on this friday night. good evening, i'm alisyn met and, as