luther king junior and rosa parks. center john mccain in absentia and apple cofounder steve jobs. that is just part of the list. it was a much needed, very good thing today for all the recipients. that is today's read it all in this crisis. tonight on all in. >> the guys all lying demagogue you can't trust, and so you want to be very very careful about what you do with him. >> to donald trump use the irs to try to take down the fbi? tonight, as f investigations began, the trump appointee who still runs the irs response, the reporter who broke that story joins me live. then, on the january six committee of the big interview with white house counsel. plus david, hard on what we're learning about the father's role in the lethal gun sale before the highland park massacre. and two weeks after the supreme

court and in the federal right to abortion, the nightmare scenario is playing out across the country as we get new evidence of hope of a growing backlash. all in starts right now. >> good evening from new york i'm chris hayes. you know maybe 2022 but we today we have a new in the official investigation into an apparent or possible trump administration's conduct. today, the irs announced it is asked the treasury department inspector general to look into audits of the two leaders of the fbi james comey and andrew mccabe. they were both selected by the irs, supposedly at random for very rare intensive financial audits. to give you a sense of just how rare this invasive random audit is, just one out of 30,000 sickening to taxpayers is selected forward in any given year. now they started an interim investigation the irs is still

run by the trump appointee commissioner claims it is ludicrous and untrue to suggest that i arrest officials somehow tout targeted these officials. knowing how frequently trump sought to punish adversaries of the state, it's important to remember these two men were the first two men who refused to go along with trump's tactics. james comey had been the director of the fbi for nearly three years when he opened the investigation into ties between the trump campaign and russia in july of 2016. he first met then president elect trump in january, 2017 when he informed trump of the evidence the fbi had collected. tony was also tasked with informing trump in a secret research document. trump described comey described trump's reaction to that in 2018 interview. >> i started telling him about the allegation that he had been involved with prostitutes in a hotel in moscow in 2013 during

the visit during the miss universe pageant and that the russians had filled the episode. and he interrupted very defensively and started talking about, do i look like a guy who needs hookers? >> a few weeks after that, a troubling first meeting between comey and trump. on january 27, trump summoned comey to of the white house for a one-on-one dinner where he tried to extract a loyalty pledge from the fbi director. >> he said, i expect loyalty, i need loyalty. and i just stared at him and i had this little narrative with myself inside saying, don't you move, don't you dare move, don't even blink. >> he said it again, i need loyalty, and i said you will always get honesty from me, and he paused and then he said, honest loyalty as if he was proposing some compromiser deal. and i paused and i said you will get that from.

>> the next month in february, trump asked comey to drop the investigation into his chest fire national security adviser michael flynn. >> he said i hopes i can let it go. >> and when he said that, you thought -- >> is asking me to drop the investigation now former security adviser. >> direction? >> i took it is a direction. his words were i hope you can. i took hope as this is one i want you to do. >> comey we came to learn, immediately wrote email memo detailing that interaction. it was the new york times reported part of the paper trail that comey created documenting what he perceived as the presidents improper efforts to influence the ongoing investigation. in march of 2017, comey confirmed publicly for the first time the fbi was investigating potential coordination between the trump campaign and russia. hearing that for the intelligence committee, comey

also refuted trump's claim that he'd been wiretap by president obama. and a senate judicial hearing in early may, he says that the trump in vesta geisha with russia was still ongoing. donald trump had. enough >> we begin a stunningly breaking news. president trump is far aired change comey's director of the fbi. it comes with that warning is sending shockwaves across washington this evening. the president dismissing the man who was leading the investigation into his campaign. >> comey learned of his firing through a tv report when you speaking with fbi jeans in los angeles. comey immediately headed home to washington repeatedly inferred the rating trump by taking fbi jet. had trump at a meeting with surrogate like off and, he told him i just fired the fbi, he was crazy real not job. the pressure is taken off russia. >> this is just a slew of attacks taken against james

comey who he repeatedly called a cheater liar and said he should be tried for reason. a similar pattern then played out with none other than comey's successor, andrew mccabe. shortly after mccabe took over, trump summoned him to the white house for a meeting where he repeatedly asked mccabe who had voted for in the 2016 election. mccabe replied he did not vote. trump vented his anger at the mccabe through the several hundred thousand dollars in donations that his wife, a democrat receive for her failed 2015 virginia state senate been from the political action. mccabe found the whole conversation disturbing. later 60 minutes it what was he was thinking during that meeting. >> i was speaking to the man who had just run for the presidency and won the election for the presidency and who might have done so with the aid of the government of russia, our most formidable adversary

in the world stage, and i was something the trouble me greatly. >> mccabe was so troubled they almost immediately began and obstruction of justice counter intelligence investigation into trump and his ties with russia. >> the next day i met with the team investigating the russia cases, and i asked the team to go back and conduct an assessment to determine where are we with these efforts and what steps do we need to take going forward? i was very concerned that i was able to put the russia case on absolutely solid ground in an indelible fashion. were i removed quickly or reassigned or fired that the case could not be closed or vanish in the night without a trace. >> now within three months, mccabe returned to his previous role as deputy director. in january, 2018, mccabe abruptly stepped down following

months of taunting from donald trump. shows -- >> with a plan to go on leave for several weeks until he was eligible for retired in march. just two days before his retirement date when he would be eligible for his full pageant, attorney general jeff sessions fired mccabe and donald trump celebrated. quote angela kate fired, a great day for the hardworking men and women of the fbi -- a great day for democracy. >> and looks like donald trump's campaign of revenge may not have stopped there. in 2019, james comey was informed that he was chosen for the irs and it attacks lawyer referred to his quote an autopsy without the benefit of doubt. two months later, the cable receive the same notification. turns out the two men didn't know they've been re-audited until they were told by the same reporter. now they want answers.

have significant questions about how our wives selected this. james comey said made it's a coincidence or maybe somebody misses the irs to get out a political enemy. given the role trumps was to continue to play in the country, we should know the answer that question. the reporter who broke this story for the new york times michael schmidt joins me now. michael, a referral to the treasury department to look into, this one is that? me >> this is a difficult question to answer, not the question you asked, but getting to the bottom of what happened here. the inspector general will have the tools to do that. you need to be able to go in and tell the irs to give you internal documents, to give you access to irs employees to speak with them, and the authority over the agency to investigate it. this inspector general will have the ability to do that certainly in a way that we didn't have, perhaps in a more

invasive way than even congress would have if they tried to do this. so the inspector general is probably in the the best position person to investigate this. we don't have an example of criminality at, we just have odd circumstance that looks very funny and curious. this investigation will hopefully answer the question, why is it that this happened? did lightning strike twice? it is strike twice in the same general area or was it something more nefarious? >> i want to read the iris statement. i think it was from today. the irs has strong safeguards in place to protect exam proctor process it -- it's ludicrous naturally suggested senior iressa fischel somehow targeted specific individuals for national research problem audits. the irs is referred to the matter to the treasury inspector general for further review. it strikes me michael that,

this is one of these cases where in the end we will probably know the truth because if there was something improper, it would've had to be done in ways that a number of people knew about it, precisely because the irs says, there are safeguards in place? >> i'm not sure. i guess any process can be corrupted him and who knows what this process actually looks like and how many safeguards there are over it? time and time again when i was reporting this out and i knew just about comey's audit, people who had worked at the irs and dealt with them said time and time again that there were too many safeguards there and that it could not be corrupted as an institution. the only thing that i thought when i heard that was that there were a lot of people that made statements like that before the trump administration came in and a lot of different things wouldn't or couldn't happen because they simply

wouldn't because institutions and norms would hold. we saw those norms frayed and wildly creative ways so because of that and because of donald trump's continued harping on these two individuals, it's hard on the face of it to simply accept that this was random. if you didn't have a trump political appointee running the irs at the time and you didn't have a president who accused these two men of treason and wanted to order the justice department to prosecute one of them. he literally wanted to order the department to do that and had to be stopped by his white house counsel from moving forward with that. because of that, it has eroded the day-to-day work of -- >> charles radical is a trump appointee, what do we know about him?

one has his involvement been with donald trump who again this is one of those appointments, a little like the federal reserve where they're supposed to be arms length distance right? >> correct. reddick was someone who represented wealthy clients in disputes with the irs. he advocated in 2016 that donald trump should not release his tax returns because he was under audit. giving credibility to the argument the trump made on the campaign trail. he's someone who owns two properties at a trump property in waikiki, hawaii. is someone who democrats and republicans have been able to work with. he was a respected lawyer in the tax world. people think very highly of him there. at the same time today, the white house press secretary when asked whether biden had confidence in reddick to run

the agency fairly sidestepped the question and basically said, look he's done in november, his term is scheduled to expire in november. so there was no -- she sidestepped the question. >> the other sort of circumstantial facts that we should introduce to the discussion for context is that this is been a temptation for presidents in the past. it's like a bit of a loaded weapon sitting on the desk in the oval office. fdr had the irs look into political opponents such as jfk, most notoriously richard nixon as part of the articles of impeachment even said it loud he wanted a ruthless s.o.b. to run the irs. there is a history here. because an audit is so awful, because that data is so private and it's such a powerful tool to abuse it. >> to the point of how invasive it is this took the, call me on

it took 15 months. they had to pay their accountant $5,000. there was the agent that worked on at the did over 50 hours of work. comey had to prove to the irs that he actually had the children that he claimed as dependents, and i had to do that by showing the picture a family picture that was in included in the family christmas car to show that he actually had children that he said he did. so we have to go to great lengths to financial yet,, before they were looking from a potential cartridge he bought two years earlier. so that gives you a flavor of how invasive and unusual this audit is. >> yeah and in the and he ended up having the irs owe him some money, right? he had overpaid on his taxes. it was at the end result? i remember correctly. >> for people who have watched jim comey he said it was sort of the ultimate jim comey on

brand moments, where here he is, he had to spend $5,000 to hire an accountant to be told that he had overpaid by $300 on his taxes. >> all right. this is a fascinating story. great reporting michael, and thank you for coming on tonight to explain it. >> thanks for having me. >> coming, up reports of a second january six hearing next week, all the details on that, plus the other hearing which we know the topic of, the coordination between trump world and basically right wing militia members. the committee's upcoming interview with trump white house counsel tomorrow, january six committee members zoloft joins me next. januar six committee members zoloft six committee members zoloft joins me

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january six committee will take closed-door testimony from white house counsel donald trump, pat cipollone, which is become even more critical in the investigation since the revelations from cassidy hutchinson last week. and the country wants to hear his story, we are hearing reports of another hearing set for next thursday, that is a week from today. -- we'll likely focus on what it was happening inside the white house during the attack on the capitol. so that will be two hearings next week, tuesday we have one confirmed, that is been announced. that will be during the day, and that thursday night, apparently, according to -- his report in primetime. on today's hearing will present evidence that the trump administration's ties to the far-right gangs like the proud boys who try to violently disrupt the peaceful transfer of power during the

insurrection. congresswoman zoloft minh democratic come a phone, yet member the dynamics of, a joins me now. good to have you. passable one gives testimony tomorrow, how significant is that? >> well i think it's likely to be very significant. he was a president of some of the key moments that we learned about from others who were in the room. the efforts to get the justice department to issue a bogus letter. the efforts to replace the civil servants with jeff clark, who wrote the bogus letter. his efforts according to miss hutchinson to try to prevent crimes from occurring on the sixth. we are looking forward to his full testimony and i am glad he is coming in. >> could you give some insight into what's the process was to produce this? i know you're not gonna get into private negotiations, but presumably there were some privilege controls, i think, or

some topic area concerns. i mean he will be testifying under oath, right? like other witnesses. >> right. it's a crime -- to lie to congress. and all the witnesses are advised of that at the very beginning. of their deposition. i can't speak for him, what changed his mind, we have been in discussions with him for sometime. he was disclosing that he in one of our hearings, he did come in for a non transcribed discussion. our investigators took copious notes. but he was not until recently, prepared to come in and have formal deposition as he is doing tomorrow. whether it was miss hutchinson's testimony, i don't know, i would just be speculating. i do believe that he has a

concern and wants to make sure that the office that he has held, remains intact, but it is worth remembering that office serves the presidency. not the individual incumbent. and certainly, many of the meetings that we've learned about from others would not be covered by any kind of privileged, there is certainly no attorney client privilege when we discuss matters with other people present. he's a good lawyer, he knows that. >> in terms of next week, well first, if you want to make some news and confirm, is there gonna be a hearing on thursday? >> i thought it best to outlook the chairman and make the announcements rather that random members of the committee. so i think i will stick with that. >> i don't consider you random, congresswoman, but i think that's probably a good policy. can you tell us a little bit about what to expect on thursday? >> well i think we will be

connecting the dots as people know, and as mr. raskin is indicated probably. we are looking at the connections between the various extremist groups. this wasn't just an event that unfolded. it was planned. who did the planning, and who were they connected with, how did it unfold, and i think we will be connecting dots. it'll be new a formation that has not yet been learned. i think it will be worth watching. >> what's is the expected timeline for the public section of this? you know, should we anticipate -- is there gonna be some kind of closure, things wrapped up, in the committee do you suspect that there will be additional public, hearings and maybe some later on? how should we think about that? >> well i think we announced at the very beginning that we intend to have a report. and they report will be after the public hearings. so i think towards the fall

would be a good guess. we will lay out everything that we found out. as others have mentioned, people are continuing to come in with new information. some of them is valuable, some of it is not, but it takes a while to go through all of the material, and make sure we are not missing anything. we want to complete report. and of course, part of our obligation is to make recommendations for various legislative changes, that would make the country stronger. and we are working on that as well. i think it has been publicly reported that i have been working with liz cheney, looking at the electoral count act, even mr. eastman admitted that what he was posing violated the electoral count act, but that doesn't mean that we don't want to make it a little harder for people to seeking to do wrong, to take advantage. >> finally, you were a staffer

on the congressional committee investigating watergate. of course that was happening parallel to criminal proceedings, first against the burglars, and then eventually against some of the people in the next admitted in the nixon administration. nixon was pardoned by ford. those parallel inquiries were happening. given that experience do you have any concerns that your committee is doing might be imperiling or infringing on whatever the department of justice is doing to look into all of this. >> no i don't, and just a correction, i didn't work for the committee, i worked for don edwards, a member of the committee, and they do some of the work for him. in that capacity. now i wrote a legislative committee, we don't have legal right to indict anyone, that belongs in the department of justice. we will certainly, at the request, share the appropriate time, pieces of information. but they had subpoena power, and honestly, they got a lot

easier time getting their subpoenas and force two legislative committees. so they are not sharing with us where they are, that is appropriate. if they find evidence of a crime that has been committed, you should find out about that through an indictment, not through leaks. and that certainly hasn't been sharing. i have not been sharing information with us, and i think that is the right thing. >> all, right congresswoman zoloft, thank you very much, we appreciate it. >> you bet. have a good evening. >> still ahead, how the july 4th shooter was able to legally buy the guns he used to kill people at a parade. david hogg is here on that next. d hogg is here on that next.

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than insurance offered? call the barnes firm now to find out. yoyou ght t beurprpris shooting we see a graphic like this showing just how many these massacres are committed by people who legally bought the gun that they used. this is not all a complete list but every one of these shootings you see where the gun was purchased legally, including the july 4th attack in highland park, illinois where seven people were killed in nearly 40 people were injured, many of them still in hospital. in fact the department of justice found that as of 2019 of the no mass shooting cases, 77% of those who engaged in mass shootings purchased at least some of their guns legally. in the case of the highland park shooter, back in 2019 police actually confiscated 60 knives a dagger and a sword from him after a family member

told police that this shooter said, quote he was going to kill everyone. stateless -- full i.d.s and they received a quote clear and present danger report on the island shooting park shooting suspect. and yet, he was able to still legally purchase semiautomatic weapon that he used in massacre because months later the suspect's father sponsor that permit application and state police granted it. david hogg survived the shooting at his high school parkland, florida for many years ago. he joins us. now it's great to have you on david. that is such a strange set of facts in this case but it does raise some questions i think about the policy solutions. every time we talk about how to rein in with gun violence in america, when you look at individual cases, here illinois has some kind -- of it's not super easy to get a weapon like this, but still he was able to get.

one >> i think it speaks to the fact that unfortunately no law is perfect but we do have to keep doing all that we can to keep things these things from happening. i think it's important note that many states across the country, some of the stronger gun laws that illinois has, some people have to essentially be interviewed by police department before they're able to legally obtain a weapon. it would -- i would be surprised if the police department was able to interview this individual and having known what they knew would be -- yes this person is okay to have an ar-15. fundamentally chris, what this comes down to and i'm not gonna get into the specifics of the father and many of the details coming out as we speak, but i will say what just happened, he was able to get the gun legally in the first place. there are many people who say that criminals don't obey laws but why should we me making it easier for bad guys to be

getting guns legally in this case by making it legal to get them in the first place. no one wants to continue have to find common ground to stop. this >> you've been talking about common ground in your journey after this issue of the awful tragedy that happened a year high school. there has been some progress in that. two things that happen. public opinion does seem to be moving in a certain direction. there was that bipartisan gun legislation that is the first we've seen in many many years. what's your reaction to that? >> look, i think the legislation that was passed as a good half step of 1000 other needed to address gun violence in this country, but it shows that americans are not divided on this issue. the most divided people in this country on addressing gun violence are not in red, and blue, in purple states, across our country. they're 100 senators who are on capitol hill, and that's who's divided in this issue.

as americans, as republicans, and democrats, as gun orders and not gunners, we need to understand as we already do that we don't completely agree on this issue on how to address it, but we fundamentally do agree that something must be done to address this. we know they're doing nothing is only allow this to to happen in the first place. we have to demand that our senators do what we already have as americans which was agree that we need gun safety in this country. responsible gun owners do not want gun violence to continue nor do republicans or democrats for that matter. we have to work to find a common ground and demand our senators act in the bipartisan manner because we have that ten votes to overcome the filibuster. >> what do you think changed after uvalde in the political calculation or the ability to even get back to have those negotiations happy. as someone who's been working on this for the last few years was changed? >> i think the conversation

changed. the immediate reaction for one, it's obvious that the incredible tragedy that children that were barely children, essentially babies were slaughtered and the horror that that brought an immediate action that americans brought. they said look, we had tens of thousands of gun owners tweeting out that they were gonna raise for safety. they simmer saying i'm a gun owner but there's no reason why or kid should be in danger in our communities. me owning a gun and preventing these horrifying tragedies are not mutually exclusive in the first place. we saw republicans coming out and speaking about it. we saw individuals like joe walsh and michael steele talking about it. joe walsh was even marching with us to change this. it was the bipartisan pressure that we put on senators combined with the tragedy and to be completely frank with you, the closeness of erection that the republicans felt pressure on allow that to happen. we have to keep going out there and demanded, not as republicans and democrats but

as americans reunited to care about what we care about most orchids. >> thank you very much for your time tonight appreciate it. >> thanks. >> coming up, new evidence that there should be hope for democrats in the midterms. that's ahead. be hope for go for 10 runs! run a marathon. instead, start small. with nicorette. which can lead to something big. start stopping with nicorette. democrats in the to a child, this is what conflict looks like. children in ukraine are caught in the crossfire of war, forced to flee their homes. a steady stream of refugees has been coming across all day. it's basically cold. lacking clean water and sanitation. exposed to injury, hunger. exhausted that's ahead

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since the supreme court overturned the federal right to an abortion, and in many states, the absolute worst case

nightmare scenarios are already coming true. as of today, mississippi only abortion clinic has closed. and abortion is either outright fat or severely restricted in more than a dozen state. that is already. but the american college of -- and lupus foundation say they are aware of reports of patients being unable to access the drug, metal trucks in, which is used to treat long-term conditions like lupus and arthritis, because it can also be used and high doses or mix with another drug with medical abortion. there was also a devastating report out of ohio that's been haunting me since i read it. and with a ten year old victim of rape who was six weeks and three days pregnant with the child of her rapist, had to travel across state lines to indiana, to secure an abortion, because she could not legally access that's in ohio. this is not enough that case. this isn't a thought of expert of worst-case an aerial. this is a real child, and a real thing that happens.

just days after the supreme court overturned roe. and the explicit position of many republican leaders is that a ten year old child should be forced to carry the rapists baby to term. just listen to ohio republican governor mike dewine squirm when pressed on the horrifying reality in a state. >> i'm assuming that this has been referred to children services. i assume it's also been referred to local law enforcement agency is. we have out there a obviously a rapist. we have someone who is dangerous, and we have someone who should be picked up and locked up forever. and again, i don't know all the facts of the case, i'm disassembly that that process has in fact been followed. >> no the process has been followed. to make matters worse, indiana, where this girl secured an abortion legally is preparing its own abortion ban. >> as republican attorney general is pushing forward

without any exceptions, which means that the next elementary school aged child who becomes pregnant by her rapist in ohio, may not even have the same option of driving to indiana. but ices said, not every republican screaming about, this some actually think that a tenuous should be forced to carry an abuse or child to term. republican governor, christina, south dakota, which has also banned abortion without exception, has seemed to agree to the policy. >> but i would say that i don't believe a tragic situation should perpetuated by another tragedy, and so that there is more that we got to make sure that we really are living a life that says every life is precious. especially innocent lives that have been shattered like that ten year old girl. >> i think it goes without saying that this is just wildly an out of line with where the american public is on abortion. consistent majorities of americans around 60%, it basically every survey, oppose overturning roe. according to recent -- monmouth poll 85% of americans,

85% at think at the very least abortion bans to include exceptions like rape or incest or lifesaving situations. according to recent reporting from washington post, republican candidates are looking for ways to avoid talking about their incredibly unpopular abortion stance, which forces ten year old children to give birth on the campaign trail. while democrats, even those gathering capping i rest, gets like governors cooper of north carolina, and any bashir of kentucky, georgia's, sensitive, is they are all going on the offensive on this issue, firming standing for abortion, right unapologetically. or talk about how this might play out at the midterms just four months away. next. midterms jus midterms jus four months for yourself goes out the window. the lines that i was seeing in my forehead were getting deeper than i was used to them being. and i realized, you know, what i can focus again on myself.

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the past six, years all political polling should be taken with an enormous brain assault. what you can use polls for, i think, usefully, as opposed to predict who will win an election by what margin, is to measure broader trends and public opinion, or political trans overtime. so right, now there are two trends in national polling. the first, which you probably, see joe biden's approval is going down. according to mahmut, the approval rating has fallen to 60 36%. that is pretty low. then there is the other trend though that we are seeing is that the opposite thing is happening on with that is called a generic congressional ballots. that is when you ask people whether they are going to vote for a democrat or republican in congress. now normally midterm election performance packed the kind of presidents approval rating. but that same poll, 47% say

they want democrats to control congress. 11 points higher than biden's approval rating, and an improvement from that meeting in may. broader polling has pointed that out. -- the over 40% support democrats on the generic battle. now right now, mammoth as a pair approval rating among democrats that's just 74%. that is pretty low for people in the party. i think the decline in his own party approval is because democrats are frustrated with the things are with biden. over losing federal abortion rights among other things. but i'm also betting that those same democrats are still pretty ticked off and ready to vote in the midterms which creates this interesting dynamic, for the two parties messaging this fall. joining me now democratic pollster and strategist cornell belcher, and tim miller, former rnc spokesman, and author of why we did it. a travelog form the republican road to hell, which debuted at number two on the new york times bestseller list this week, congratulations, tim.

cornell let me start with you on these trends that we have seen, because take away roe v. wade and you have a pretty straightforward story. inflation is 7%. there is a lot of post covid disruption. there is a war happening in europe that has made gas prices super high. president can't really control any of that stuff. it's kind of served up to the challenge party to just rail against that stuff and stable for us if you want to change. simple enough. it does seem to me roe is so monumental, and then the broader sort of sense of peril and cultural assault, guns, the courts, trump lingering there, just change the picture a little bit then from a normal mid term. what do you think? >> i do think, look, if you go back to at the beginning of the year. you had a generic horse race, republicans opening up a really sort of wide gap in the generic course rates. and typically going into the

midterm, it stems -- generic horse race, it's really problematic for them. but over the course -- since the beginning of the year, what's have you seen? you have seen republicans fight restrictions on guns. you see supreme court take away women's rights, and by the way, republicans cheering that, and republican governors state legislative bodies talking about taking away even more freedoms and rights from women, and that is the story that you did just before the segment, it's really heartbreaking. so this is really hitting home. and you also throughout the south of the state, like georgia, you have republicans really sort of take -- and go after the voting rights. poor people and minority voters. so, this is becoming classically, you want this to become a referendum on the -- republicans you want is to be a referendum on the president. july 20th we wanted it to be a referendum on donald trump.

and what you have is now, this is becoming a referendum on republicans. and that is why you see the horse race sort of tightening. and that's why you see democrats better positioning because it's less about joe biden's, more about republican overreach. >> yeah and tim, i think mcconnell has the theory of the case correct here. he does very clearly wants to just take things off the table and basically say to voters, do you like 8% inflation or not? right? that's a, that's all i want you to think about. that's all i want to talk about. and if you like, it then vote for the democrats. if you don't like, it will for us. that is the position that he is best in. but he also has this problem of candidate quality in a lot of the states. herschel walker is just a disaster of a candidate. that should be a very winnable race for republicans in the state of georgia in the year of our lord 2022. that guy is a rough guy to put out there as you're nominee. >> yeah, i think that is why

democrats should be looking better in the senate, if you look at 5:38, it is showing that, democrats transform the house pretty low, but senators is a coin flip. a lot of this is because of candidate quality. i want to look sometimes with america we get some -- american politics, suddenly justice happen in france. where macron had very low ratings. in the final run he was put up against le pen who was insane, racist, unacceptable, and so macron winds instead of despite his low versus ratings. this is the model that the democrat needs in the senate races where you disqualify the herschel walker's in the world loves to extremist. maybe it's this masters that wins in arizona, you can see doctor oz in pennsylvania, ron johnson who we talked about last time i was on the show. all these conspiracy all nines or to try to disqualify these people as extremists, using some of these social issues, even in support for you know, very far right positions, like

abortions, and some of these issues. and get voters who might not be that happy with joe biden, might not be that happy with the economy, to kind of hold the nose and vote for the democrats because the republican candidates so far out there. i think that's a very realistic model in the senate. it's hard to do that in-house racing and the familiar of the candidates as lower. >> when you look at it statewide, like gubernatorial races where the two things really come to better together, cornell, josh perot is running in pennsylvania against mastriano. he was on my program and he said something which is partly true. every voter of every stripe of ideology in pennsylvania snow. it if josh repair is elected governor of pennsylvania, abortion will probably most certainly remain legal in pennsylvania. and if mastriano the republican elected, it will be illegal. he will outlaw abortion in the state. mastriano was very clear on that. there's republican legislators already ready. in that case i was looking at this polling at the salient of abortion and choice for democrats, which has gone up tremendously in this pr i

pulling. will you only vote for a candidate who shares her views? that i think is going to play a pretty big role, i think, if the message is correct, in those couture and races in places like michigan, and pennsylvania. >> well even if you look at sort of the nbc polling from earlier on, you see the issue of abortion raising as a top to issue consideration. we are seeing that in pulling all across the country, where the issue of abortion, before the supreme court, started overturning this, it was not a second or third place issue, consideration. now it is a top two consideration. and i think it goes beyond the governor's race. look, in 2010, women broke for democrats by one point. in 2018, they broke for democrats by almost 20 points. and so that is a difference. where is that gender gap going to be? i find it hard to believe that women voters aren't going to break for democrats by double

digit margins because of the roe v. wade decision. >> yeah it's gonna be very interesting, cornell bachelor, and to miller, whose book is getting great reviews, thank you both for coming on, appreciate it. >> that is all in on this thursday, night msnbc prime starts now with ali veteran good evening ali. chris thank you very much you have yourself a good evening we'll see. tomorrow thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. he was fired from his very first job for lying. it was his first job as a newspaper reporter in london and he got caught making up quote. the more right-wing newspaper didn't see that as disqualifying so they sent him up to brussels to cover the headquarters of the european union. once there, he spent the early 1990s doing what he did best, moving things up. they filed reports about how the autocratic foreigners running the eu were making harebrained rules about what the uk could and couldn't do. things like the shape of