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tv   Morning Joe  MSNBC  July 21, 2022 6:00am-7:00am PDT

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acceptable levels fairly soon, look far better than it did just two or three months ago. >> paul, joe scarborough here. i want to ask you about something. this is your life. you've been working this for years now. but it seems to me every 20, 30 years we hear a country is going to overtake the united states. i always laugh when i think back to 1987, '88, '89 and japanese are going to turn america into its grainery. we heard the same thing about china. and yet we get a report that u.s. dollar is stronger now against all other currencies than any other currency. you could talk for a moment about the resilience of the united states economy through the years and how we're -- it seems we're always underestimated and the economy keeps doing very well relatively to the rest of the world?
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>> yeah. i mean, one thing to say that you have to remember china is very different from japan because there are so many chinese. they don't have to be as productive as we are to become the world's largest economy. so by some measures they already are. but they are also having a lot of problems. the chinese model, it really does seem to be coming apart at the seams right now. and the u.s., look, america has been, at least it is a very -- i think our openness, our openness to different people, to different ideas, our creativity that comes out of that has been our underlying strength. and i mean, if you think about how did america do so well in high-tech. there are a lot of reasons. a lot of that is in silicon valley, the claim is, the anecdote is that venture capitalists won't back a company unless it has a few east asians involved because we need the diversity of ideas and diversity
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and our openness, our openness to new ideas has been our huge strength. i do worry given everything else that is going on that we might undermine that. >> and you talk about the china model here coming apart at the seams. >> yeah. >> i think it is a story that we haven't talked about enough. that people haven't talked about enough. the miscalculations that president xi has made, whether you look at hong kong or the continuing human rights abuses, you look at him going after jack ma and other entrepreneurs. just the quality of life there. even if you just talk about how horrible the environment is there, this is a story, again, that we aren't discussing enough. but talk about the missteps china has made over the past five years. >> well i think the most striking is the inability to change course when something isn't working.
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meaning, i'm a big fan of prudential measures against covid. but china went with this draconian policy of lockdowns, which has clearly become unsustainable. the later variants are too contagious. you end up totally disrupting the economy totally disrupting people's lives. but the trouble with not being a democracy, the trouble with having a authoritarian leader is that nobody could tell him he's wrong. and nobody could tell him that, look, this policy we've been following isn't working and so what we're seeing now, we're seeing a realtime lesson in why authoritarian regimes in the end lose out to more open, more democratic regimes. >> and you're so right of the list of mistakes over the past five years and the zero covid policy may have the longest term impact.
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paul krugman, thank you so much for being with us. >> great to have you on with us today. >> thank you so much. it is 3 minutes past the top of the hour. let's get to the news and the new revelation in the growing controversy surrounding the secret service. and, the deleted text messages in the wake of the january 6 attack. a senior secret service official tells nbc news employees at the agency received at least two emails reminding them to preserve records on those phones including text messages before their devices were restored to factory setting as part of a replace and re-set across the agency. one of those emails came before january 6th. senior official also said employees received a third email in early february of 2021 that instructed them to save all communications specific to january 6th. at that point, several congressional committees had
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asked for secret service communications, from the day of the insurrection on the capitol and the secret service official said by the time that the department of homeland security inspector general asked for the records in late february of 2021, that information was already deleted. the exact timeline of the request for the records and the date of deletion is still in question. and is currently under investigation by the national archives. last week, the january 6th house committee issued a subpoena for text messages by the secret service on january 5th and 6th, 2021. a source told nbc news on tuesday that the secret service does not have any additional text messages to hand over. >> if you think that is bad enough. wait. there is more. >> yeah. >> jonathan lemire, just what -- late last night carol leonnig
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and maria secadi posted this, that texts had been purged. the inspector general knew in february that the dhs, the office of inspector general, knew that these text messages and the secret service had been purged from january 5th and january 6. carol continues to write here that the inspector general prepared in october 2021 to issue a public alert that the secret service and other department divisions were stonewalling it on requests for records and texts surrounding the attack of the capitol. but did not do so. so the inspector general has known this for a long time and just didn't tell congress. did not notify congress that they deleted the texts, and they
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were stonewalling the investigation. i think it is safe, what the hell is going on at dhs? >> and the story going on to note this only became to light because of two whistleblowers who went forward with the information that the inspector general had been notified as early as february. yeah, no, it raises even more questions about just how irresponsible and careless, and i'm being kind, the secret service was or if indeed there was a nefarious cover-up here. we've been through thetimeline repeatedly the last couple of days but it is worth repeating. there was a request to preserve the cell phone records as early as december 2020. that request repeated in january of 2021. and in the days after january 5th and 6th, the dates missing where texts were deleted, there was another question saying, hey, you need to keep from congress, telling secret service
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to preserve those records and yet a week later the data pagration went ahead and those records were lost outside of the few stray messages it has been reported. so there was ample warning for the records to be preserved and it is also bears repeating this. records are always supposed to be preserved. it is the federal government. it should be preserved. there is a federal preservation act for that reason. even on a typical day those records should be kept and they could be examined and discarded and one colleague texting another about a salad order for lunch but if anything pertinent, they need to be collected and what could be more important than january 6. >> and the dhs inspector general knew last year according to reports from "the washington post," that they were stonewalling the investigation, they had destroyed the texts, they knew last year and they did
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not notify congress. considered it, but ended up not notifying congress. what is the world is going on at dhs? >> well, it does seem, in some specific areas, potentially nefarious, the missing texts, julie a ainsley who broke some of the detail this is morning, she also pointed out that her sources were telling her that secret service officials don't text a loss because their busy. they're actually working. but there are some key people who are key players in a scene specially in the beast, the vehicle that president trump was driven around in, that defendant might have ended up on some text exchanges. the key people around the president, his detail, for them not to have any text to produce from that day, that is defying gravity. >> no. >> that is ridiculous. >> and as carol leonnig said,
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and if we get her on the line, but that would be fantastic. but there has been a number of scandal where's secret service agents, there was one in 2015 where a secret service agent was sexting an underage person from the white house and actually they got those texts and he faced justice. and carol said there are other examples where they've looked at text messages while on the job and so this whole thing -- >> and this is a day, joe, that would require potentially communicating by text. >> oh, my gosh, of course. >> there is one thing they're doing over the radios but there was a lot of movement. there is key reporting and there is testimony that the president vehemently wanted to be taken to the capitol, which would have ramped the violence up several notches. and the fact that there are no text messages during those very
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important hours at the time when they were trying to get the president back to the west wing, they might have been sending some warning saying we're working -- i don't know what they were talking about. because we don't have the texts. but they definitely would have texted. >> donald trump's own lawyer said don't take him up to the capitol and if he does we'll be charged with every crime under the book. so how important would it be to have texts to show the president's state of mind where the president was pushing to go up to the capitol. of course, these obvious answers. >> i know. >> and it is obvious why they deleted the texts, they're part of a cover-up for donald trump and the question is after carol's reporting, the question is morning is what is the dhs covering up. why did the dhs cover this up. why did the dhs know last year that the secret service had deleted the texts and were dragging their feet on this
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investigation, thought about notifying congress, but decided not to. that is an oversight hearing i can't wait to see. >> all right. also we're learning new details this morning about tonight's prime time hearing by the house january 6 select committee. lawmakers are set to give a minute-by-minute account of what happened inside of the white house during the 187 minutes between the conclusion of former president trump's rally at the ellipse and his tweet telling his rioters to go home. the committee said testimony will focus specifically on trump's actions. and his, quote, dereliction of duty. committee chairman bennie thompson will chair the meeting remotely after testing positive for covid-19 earlier this week and most of the questioning will be conducted by democratic congresswoman elaine loria and adam kinzinger.
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both lawmakers are military veterans. the committee said this is likely to be last of this round of hearings. but future additional hearings are likely around the release of two reports later this year. ahead of tonight's january 6 committee hearing, a new study is shedding light on the motivations behind why rioters participated in the capitol insurrection. and an analysis out of harvard reveals that most of those who participated in the attack on the capitol told investigators that they did so because former president trump told them to. joining us now is nbc news correspondent jake ward. jake, take us through the report. >> reporter: well, mika, this is a fascinating look ahead of tonight's hearings at the motivations of the rioters not as expressed on social media, not as expressed by hearsay, but as expressed directly to fbi
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investigators during their interviews. we're looking here at a range of motivations, but the way in which they stack up is so fascinating. the number one motivation, as you mentioned, 20.6% of the 417 individuals charged, literally cited trump by name. trump told me to. they said or at trump's invitation. these were the words they used with investigators in the interview rooms. the second most common was the idea of the big lie. this is a mish-mash of conspiracy theories and cover the gamut. this is the hardest one to put in a single bucket. and then beyond that it is the desire to be part of the overthrow of the government, a coup, a revelation. some talked about the desire to want to be able to say to their grandchildren they were part of a historic day and this was a fascinating combination. 6.9% of them described wanting to peacefully assemble and
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demonstrate and protest in a peaceful way. and 6.2% were there specifically because they said they wanted to be part of violence. they talked about maiming or killing. they talked about the weapons they wanted to bring. so for me that distinction between people -- this is not as it turns out a peaceful property that got out of hand. you almost have the people there saying i have to be there to part of violence in some way. it is fascinating to look at these motivations as described here. i want to play for you a little bit of footage from an fbi interview with danny rodriguez. he is currently charged with tasing an officer on that day. and during his interrogation had this to say about why he was there. have a listen. >> what were your thoughts at
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the capitol, when you went into the capitol building? >> i thought that we were going to save this, i thought that they were going to do something. thought that trump was going to stay president and they were going to find all of this crooked stuff and we're, we thought they were doing something good. we were getting nancy pelosi. >> reporter: this extraordinary sense of delusion, really that they were there to do something positive but also they were there to do some at the behest of the president. danny rodriguez said he's the commander-in-chief and he's calling us for help. this is just ongoing sense that these folks were drawn there by their commitment to president trump. really a fascinating takeaway, one of many from this study here, mika. >> jake, thank you very much for that report. that interview is absolutely fascinating and there are many like them where people were completely misled into believing the election was stolen. and they were there to help
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their president. jake, thank you. >> i don't think we could understate that enough. that so many people that were there, were there because they've been hearing from donald trump for a year that the election was rigged. that the election was stolen. donald trump would spread conspiracy theories inside of the white house, the same conspiracy theories that we talked about people would spread on websites run by chinese religious cults. and it would be bizarre conspiracy theories, but he spread those conspiracy theories and it would be coming again from the president of the united states. so you if followed the president of the united states and he was telling you all of these things, at least 20% were there, 40% were there because they believed the election was stolen. if you look at those numbers. >> it is a cruel abuse of power. >> yeah. well let's go back for a minute, mika, to secret service story. i wasabt, on the
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the phone we have reporter for "the washington post," carol leonnig, who wrote a book last year specifically on the secret service. i want to get to this thing that secret service agents never use texting because of course you've written about several secret service members who lost their jobs because their text messages were actually read. but this is what i can't -- i don't understand from your story, why would the inspector general know a year ago that the text messages were destroyed on the 5th and 6th of january by the secret service, and then consider telling congress, but end up actually stonewalling congress. this is -- it now seems like, not only do we have a scandal inside of the secret service, we now have a cover-up that may be extending to the dhs. what in the world is going on
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here? >> that is a good question. and you're right because i don't answer that question in the story, joe. there is a lot of context and back story to the inspector general for the dhs. first off, he was appointed by donald trump. second off, he has been trying to hold on to his job under joe biden. but also sort of stay underneath the radar. he's been criticized for failing to properly investigate a lot of things that happened during the trump administration. and i think about a year ago i wrote a story in which his staff had gone as whistleblowers to congress complaining that he had blocked them from investigating secret service role in helping trump forcibly remove protesters from lafayette square in june. you know the black lives matter george floyd protesters, a
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vicious removal, forcible and also just for donald trump's photo op. ig joseph capperi blocked another secret service investigation into january 6th and their role in that -- that planning beforehand. so there is a lot of problems. the fact that he did not report at these texts were purged in february, has a huge potential impact and negative impact on investigators because time is your enemy when you're trying to reconstruct anything. and now people that i've interviewed, are trying to figure out how these texts are going to be recovered, this critical evidence for january 6. they say if they would have known in february it would have been a lot easier.
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>> yeah. >> so, carol, not only did trump politicize the secret service and we talked about how that happened, putting his person in a key position. but it appears now that he politicized even the role of the inspector general inside the department of homeland security that is supposed to oversee the secret service. so it seems as if the entire secret service process, of oversight has been corrupted. >> well, joe, you know, when phil rucker and i wrote in our book "i alone can fix it", one of the devastating things that we learned and i think it is coming out very clearly in the january 6 committee hearings, although maybe not in every detail, we learned that every agency had been a play thing to donald trump. how can i use it for my gain.
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the very -- kind of presidency. not how could i use it to make sure i put some points on the board and help my citizenry, how do i have my political goals by actually helping the public, but really how do i help me. and every agency had that corruption essentially by donald trump. i use corruption not in a criminal context, although i think it is becoming clear there were crimes, i use corruption in the sense that he tainted all of them. at dhs, the acting secretary was viewed as so corrupted that the staff did not want to involve him in conversations about january 6th because they couldn't tell whether he was trying to help donald trump execute a coup. so that is kind of how bad it was. >> well, carol, thank you so
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much for calling in. and just in this conversation, joe, i'm reminded of something general hayden said a few years ago, and when we're talking about the strength of the u.s. government against fascist tendencies and whether or not america could hold up, and he said something that really stuck with me and that is the government, the u.s. government is made up of institutions, the institutions themselves are made up of people. >> yeah. >> and that's where different weaknesses and influences can be -- can be tainted. >> and this is such a problem. and the thing is, people have been polite and dancing around it for quite sometime but when the biden administration came in there were people in the administration that were very concerned about the incoming president's safety and it was that -- they were concerned about joe biden's safety because the secret service had been so corrupted by donald trump. it is something that we heard, we haven't said anything about,
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because you don't know, again, talk it loose in washington, d.c., and even inside of the white house. but here you have, again, one more example of the secret service, again, they destroy texts on january 5th and 6th, even though three warnings. >> come on. >> and then the inspector general who should be calling them to account knows about this and doesn't say anything to the united states congress. >> yeah. >> it is, again, when they know that the congress has also demanded these texts from the secret service. i mean, the corruption there, man, they're going to have to clean that place out. whoever is at the top of the secret service, this is an extraordinary fail. and it extends to the dhs. it really does. what in the hell. the inspector general should be called in front of congress tomorrow. >> so up next, in just over an hour, day four of the steve bannon trial.
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will kick off after the prosecution rested their case only calling two witnesses. and it may not be so quick for rudy giuliani who was just ordered to appear before a grand jury in georgia after he didn't even bother to show for a hearing on a challenge to the subpoena that he filed. and later, ukraine's first lady makes a dramatic appeal to members of congress to not forget about her war torn country as the secretary of defense announces that we are sending more weapons. admiral james stavridis will be here on if it is enough when "morning joe" comes back. n if in join the fight at "morning joe" comes back
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29 past the hour. we have the latest ad by the liberal pac midas touch and it goes after republican pennsylvania senate candidate dr. mehmet oz. in a new ad entitled, the wizard of lies.
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take a look. >> come forward. >> we like you to keep your promise to us, if you please, sir. >> now i've got the number one miracle in a bottle to burn your fat. it is the new miracle. lightning in a bottle. the miracle of the year. it is raspberry keto. >> green coffee bean extract. >> syrup. >> red palm oil. >> garsinia. >> it is a brand new miracle. >> do you believe there is a miracle pill out there. >> there is not a pill that is going to help you long-term lose weight and live the best life without diet and exercise. >> you ought to be ashamed of yourself. >> you may think magic is make believe, but this little bean has scientists saying they found
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a magic weight loss cure for every body type. >> a recent study found the main ingredient failed to help lab mice, they gave them the early symptoms of degrees. >> i'll fight to secure the border so we have to have this in the middle of the night. >> he had to pay the largest fine in american history for employing undocumented workers. $95 million. i can't even believe this figure. >> i'm a resident of montgomery county. i go to twice so i feel like time pennsylvania. >> for years he's lived in new jersey and his social media shows him at his north jersey mansion so he's running for office in a state he doesn't seem to want to live in. >> he's completely changed his positions on just about every issue. >> at this point, bill cosby is a more credible tv doctor. >> i know you know how much
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power you have. you are very powerful. >> if you are really great and powerful, you would keep your promises. >> physicians say dr. oz is a quack. >> the only thing people like dr. oz care about is themselves. >> you're a very bad man. >> pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. >> boy, that is something. you know, jonathan lemire, i'll admit, i did not follow dr. oz's career closely. but all of these things, these magic little beans that he's had, and these magic extract, it really is -- you line it up one after another, what an unbelievable scam artist and a scam artist putting people's health at risk, doing anything to make money. >> taking advantage of vulnerable people. >> taking advantage of vulnerable people. and you know, this is a guy, in
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the ad he said i'm all peninsula. i voted twice pennsylvania. he voted in turkey in 2018. spg that causes concern. and people were saying this in the republican primary, caused concern for national security analysts. that you would vote and be active in another country's politics. but he didn't vote in the republican primary that year but he voted in turkey. i mean, just, there is so much material here. it is pretty breathtaking. >> the green coffee bean extract is just one of the miracle pills that he would tout on his show. but yet, then have to walk it back while under oath testifying before congress. and i think it is easy to overlook just what a huge platform he once had. getting a start on oprah show and then becoming a star in his own right where day after day he would hock products that are
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little or no medical benefit and the fetterman campaign is eager to seize upon this. this is an ad that is damaging and this has loomed large over this. and they have flown a banner over the jersey shore wishing dr. oz would come home. and this is a troll-like, almost as one democrat put it to me, a republican-style bit of campaigns from fetterman. so far it looks effective and for republicans they've nominated another candidate that will have some trouble in the election ahead. >> and soaky from the injury shore wishing him best of look and looking forward to getting back home to new jersey where he lives. >> and dr. oz had a report that looks into his opponent's 2016 endorsement of bernie sanders. oz tried to compare the two with this tweet using a meme that was popular several years ago.
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>> nice photo shot. >> his opponent john fetterman responded posting this. >> i've go to say. >> graphic design is my passion. >> one of my favorite political tweets of the year. you look at how bad the graphic arts are. no, that is good stuff. fetterman, mika, i will say, his campaign has been aggressive and been very effective and have pushed back hard on dr. oz. wishing him luck from his new jersey mansion. of course, i think snooki wish him best of luck, all while again and now you have this third party group just showing one lie after another after another lie. and of course some of the commentators that were going after dr. oz, they weren't doing it because he was running. the clip of -- from the news
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max -- i apologize, i'm tired, was actually from 2013. and so, again, these are old file footages. and just showing he's a scam artist. >> a charlottan. >> and he has been for years. >> and i find him to be kind of scary that we're even -- that we're even having to have this conversation. >> that he won a primary. he beat -- he beat dave mccormick. dave mccormick would be like measuring thens right now in the senate if the republicans selected dave mccormick there. and they also had in ohio, they had main street republican that would have easily won the ohio race. and in arizona, they just -- they keep -- this republican party can -- and look at georgia, once again this republican party keeps doing
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everything it can to blow these elections. this should be easy for them. >> obviously we'll be watching those races closely. and the focus today is on tonight's prime time hearing of the select committee investigating at tack on the capitol. and a lot of the questions have been around the justice department, are they listened and are they watching and doing their own investigation. attorney general merrick garland said he will pursue investigation news the january 6 capitol attack by following the facts. saying no person is above the law in this country. >> there is a lot of speculation about what the justice department is doing, what it is not doing, what your theories are, what are theories aren't and there will continue to be that speculation. that is because a central tenant of the way in which the justice department investigates is that we do not do our investigations in public.
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this is the most wide-ranging investigation and the most important investigation that the justice department has ever entered into. we have to get this right. no person is above the law in this country. nothing stops us -- >> even a former president. >> i don't know how to -- i'll say it again. no person is above the law in this country. i can't say it any more clearly than that. there is nothing in the principles of prosecution and any other factors which prevent us from investigating anyone who is criminally responsible for an attempt to undo a democratic election. >> let's bring into the conversation national correspondent for politico betry woodruff swan and yamiche alcindor, good to have you both. betsy, in listening to what the attorney general had to say, now let's focus on the prime time
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hearings tonight. what do we know about what the committee plans to do tonight? >> we know that they're going to be highlighting of course sarah matthews and that testimony. both of those folks are white house officials who resigned on january 6th because of the way that the president did and also didn't react to the violence. pottinger is particularly interesting. he's one of only a few people who were senior officials on the national security council for the entirety, almost the entirety of trump's presidency. he outlasted multiple national security advisers and i'm told part of the reason that he won the trust of other white house officials was because vice president mike pence was an advocate for him, had confidence in the role that he was playing on the national security council. he's somebody who would have intimate and detailed knowledge of the relationship between the white house and the broader national security apparatus of the u.s. government, that visible brings a vantage point
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that we haven't heard much thus yet so far in these hearings. and do we get any pat cipollone video and the committee reviewed him on camera under oath. do they have material from that interview they're going to show? that is something we'll be keeping an eye out for. >> the back drop of this, of course, is the missing text messages from the secret service after the bombshell testimony, the surprise witness cassidy hutchinson testifying to what was an incredible altercation between the president and several people in the car with him as he was demanding to be taken to the capitol. so with that back drop of text messages surrounding those moments missing, it seems to me the focus tonight will be on trump. will be on trump himself, what he did do, and what he didn't do during those 187 minutes between
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the end of his rally at the ellipse and his tweet finally, finally telling people to go home. and one of the things that he didn't do of many things is call for help to stop the violence at the capitol. what will you be looking at, at the hearing tonight? >> well, mika, as you said, this is all remarkable stuff. if this is a chapter in a book, you could nickname it or call it white house box box, 187 minutes. they're doing a deep dive into the roughly three-hour period where they say donald trump failed to do anything at all to stop say mob ever his supporters from breaking into the capitol and they're also going to argue that he was actually trying to egg them on when you saw that 2:24 tweet when he was going after former vice president mike pence essentially sending the mob his direction. i'm looking for a number of things including whether or not
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there are any outtakes of this january 7th speech that former president trump made because that is interesting to think about the intent which i've been talking to sources about, what was the president's thinking. >> and when it comes to mat matthew pottinger and sarah matthews, they were there in the house to directly hear at times what president trump was saying and doing. so there is going to be a lot of i think really focus on the firsthand knowledge, talking to republican source yesterday who said cassidy hutchinson had bombshell revelation and these the surprise witness and obviously very, very key. but a lot of her sort of revelations were -- would be considered hearsay in talking to lawyers. and they're saying well matt pottinger is the most senior person in the day capitol attack and he can't dismiss as someone who didn't know what was going on. was in those rooms. and i had a long conversation
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with judge ludig who testified during the third hearing and he told me that he really feels like committee has already proven its case. that they've been successful in explaining to people all of the different things that went into former president trump's trying to over turn the 2020 election. be he also told me that the committee is working on intent and he is very interested in seeing where that goes. so i'm also interested to see is there a way to prove sort of definitively that former president trump told anybody that he knew he lost the election, not that he thought he won but that he knew he lost and wanted to steal it any ways. >> thank you both very much for your reporting this morning. steve bannon defense team will present the limited legal case to jurors today in his contempt on congress trial. the prosecution rested yesterday after calling only two witnesses. a staffer for the january 6th committee and an fbi agent. the staffer testified that the committee believed bannon's claim of executive privilege,
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quote, was not a valid rational for refusing to comply with a congressional subpoena. the judge has already ruled that it is not a valid defense. bannon's legal team has repeatedly argued that he has been negotiating with the committee and did not refuse to cooperate. meanwhile, a new york judge has ordered rudy giuliani to appear before the special grand jury in fulton county, georgia. as investigating possible interference in the 2020 presidential election. the order was issued after giuliani failed to show up to a hearing last week on his challenge to the subpoena. after the new york judge's ruling, a georgia judge ordered giuliani to make his appearance before the grand jury on august 9th. a lawyer for giuliani did not immediately respond to a request for comment. this is all connected to georgia district attorney fani willis' investigation which just this week subpoenaed nearly a dozen
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of georgia's fake electors. giuliani played a key role in the effort to try to overturn the election in georgia, not only being part of the scheme to create false electors in a number of states but appearing before two georgia legislative committees in december of 2020 pushing false conspiracy theories about secret suitcases full of democratic ballots and corrupted voting machines. and coming up, what was donald trump doing while the capitol was under siege? member of the january 6th committee adam kinzinger just tweeted out a clip that might be some of what we see in tonight's hearing. we'll play that for you next. and... take. it. on. with rinvoq. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that tackles pain, stiffness, swelling. for some, rinvoq significantly reduces ra and psa fatigue.
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all right here is a new video just posted by republican congressman adam kinzinger, previewing today's prime time hearing. take a look. >> was the president in that dining room the whole time that the attack on the capitol was going on or did he ever go to go to your knowledge, to the office, to the white house
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situation room, anywhere else. >> to the best of my recollection, he was always in the dining room. >> what did they say? mr. meadows or the president, at all during that brief encounter that you were in the draining room. >> i think everybody was watching the tv. >> do you know whether he was watching tv in the dining room when you talked to him on january 6th? >> it's my understanding that he was watching television. >> while you were in the dining room during these discussions, was the violence happening physically on the screen or on the television? >> yes. >> jonathan l lemire, your thoughts, it appears that they're making the case that he was just watching tv the whole time, meaning, not doing anything to stop it. >> yeah, we had known from secondhand reporting that this is what the president was up to that day. that he had retreated to the private dining room just off the oval office, watching the
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television, the footage of the ongoing riot on capitol hill. now we're hearing it from trump aides. they're trump supporters. trump supporterers who still believed in the cause enough that they were still working on january 6th in an otherwise hollowed out white house. so this is a snippet of the testimony we're going to see tonight, it, does, indeed, point to the theme of dereliction of duty. how this president basically from election day abandoned leading the country for this foolish quest to overturn the election. and no more so than on a day when his supporters were committing violence in his name. >> and just letting it happen, when he and he alone could have really done something to stop it. we'll, of course, be covering this all day, previewing the big hearing tonight on prime-time, 8:00 p.m. we want to turn now to the war in ukraine. yesterday, ukraine's first lady, olenna zelenskyy, made a dramatic appeal, directly to congress yesterday, to help her war-torn homeland.
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>> translator: to all of you on behalf of those who were killed, on behalf of those who lost their arms and legs, on behalf of those who are still alive and well and those who wait for their families to come back from the front, i'm asking for something now i would never want to ask. i'm asking for weapons. >> well, that was obviously through the voice of a translator. zelenska's appeal came as the u.s. committed to a additional military support for ukraine. defense secretary lloyd austin yesterday announced that the u.s. will be sending four more advanced rocket launchers to ukraine. according to austin, ukrainian forces have been using these launchers known as high mobility artillery rocket systems very effectively against russian forces. he said these weapons have, quote, made such a difference on the battlefield.
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joining us now, former nato supreme allied commander, retired four-star navy admiral, james stavridis. he's also chief diplomacy analyst for nbc news and msnbc. and obviously, olenna zelenska's trip, admiral, helps keep the spotlight on ukraine, because the war is expected to drag on. ukrainians know painfully that it could take quite some time to sort of let the russians run out of gas. my question to you is, looking at this strategy from 20,000 feet, as we sort of incrementally give the weapons and give the aid and we are -- the u.s. is, for sure, and nato allies are stepping up. but is this strategy working? let's start with huge kudos to mrs. zelenska. this is the opposition of dereliction of duty that we've been talking about. this is a president zelenskyies
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that on the front lines every day. he knows he's now got to put a spotlight on the human rights aspect of this, on the war crimes. who better to send than his wife, mother of his young children, a really remarkable performance in my view. mika, as to your question, which lies right at the heart of how this race will unfold, the race is this. on one side, putin is burning through troops. he's lost at least 15,000 killed in action, maybe many more, three times that wounded. equipment shattered. yet he's continuing to pour anything he's got into eastern ukraine. the other race is the one you've referenced. that's the right one to focus on. the race to put the right weapons in the hands of the ukrainians. three systems. highmars, which reaches way back behind their lines. naval weapons that can go after that black sea fleet potentially, cracking that blockade.
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and third and finally, the garden variety artillery ammunition, because this is a grinding war that's going to go on for some months. to answer your question, yes, i think the west is going to win that race, but we've got to keep the pressure on. >> yeah, and so what about the ability to keep the pressure on, the amount of resources that are headed towards ukraine. you know, the balance of that. and then we hear from russia, they want to move forward with elections and start annexing parts of ukraine. is it possible that russia is operating on a different reality than the rest of the world? and does that work? it seemed to work in 2014. >> yeah, unfortunately, they are operating on a different reality. they're operating on putin time, on putin reality. but that is going to break on the true reality of dead russians coming home, broken equipment. over time, they cannot win that
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race. putin knows that in his heart. when he makes up at 2:00 in the morning, he knows he's not going to win this under this long-term process. so, bottom line here, and i think you'll hear this from a number of the participants out at the aspen security conference. we heard it yesterday, in fact, the u.s. is going to stick, the europeans are going to stick. they're re-wiring their energy system in case putin decides to continue to use gas as a weapon, which he probably will over time. i think we'll win this, but it will require full attention of the west and i think it's going to stay there, mika. >> all right. retired four-star admiral navy, james stavridis, thank you very much for your insight this morning. and of course, stay with msnbc daily today. live coverage as we lead up to the select committee on the january 6th attack on the capitol prime-time hearings 8:00 tonight. yasmin vassoughian picks up msnbc's live coverage after a quick final break. picks up picks up msnbc's live coverage after a
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good morning, everybody. it is 10:00 a.m. in the east, 7:00 a.m. pacific. i'm yasmin vassoughian in for jose diaz-balart. tonight, the january 6th committee holding their final scheduled prime-time hearing, where they will likely provide some new details about former president trump's actions during the attack on the capitol. congressman adam kinzinger has just released a video teasing what we're going to see tonight. we're going to