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tv   The Reid Out  MSNBC  July 26, 2022 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT

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now. just a moment from washington. you can always find me online @arimelber on social media or @arimelber.com. oil see you tomorrow at 6:00. "the reidout" with jason johnson in for joy starts now. ♪♪ tonight on "the reidout" -- >> we will hold accountable anyone who is criminally responsible for attempting to interfere with the transfer -- legitimate lawful transfer of power from one administration to the next. >> attorney general merrick garland in a rare interview tells nbc's lester holt what might happen next in the doj's investigation of the january 6th insurrection. speaking of which the man who calls them all was back in
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washington today, and many same republican politicians who are running up that hill still came out to kiss his ring. plus, the pain that alex jones inflicted on the families of the sandy hook massacre victims as he stands trial for defamation. and dr. anthony fauci will be my guest on white house plans to get the monkeypox outbreak under control. not a sentence i thought i'd ever say. good evening, everyone, jason johnson in tonight for joy reid. we begin "the reidout" with signs that the justice department is widening its investigation into january 6th and the efforts to overturn the election. in an exclusive interview today with nbc's lester holt, attorney general merrick garland said that the department's investigation is moving at an unprecedented speed, and he refuses to rule out prosecuting the twice-impeached former president for his actions. >> you said in no uncertain terms the other day that no one is above the law. >> yeah. >> that said, the indictment of a former president, perhaps
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candidate for president, would arguably tear the country apart. is that your concern? as you make your decision down the road here, do you have to think about things like that? >> look, we pursue justice without fear or favor. we intend to hold everyone, anyone who was criminally responsible for events surrounding january 6, for any attempt to interfere with the lawful transfer of power from one administration to the next, that's what we pay attention to. we don't pay attention to any other everyone with respect to that. >> the doj is expanding its scope looking beyond what happened at the capitol and those involved in fake electors schemes though "the washington post" report that on that front that a grand jury september subpoenas to two arizona republicans last month asking for communications relating to any effort, plan or attempt to
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sever as an elector for the former president. meanwhile, nbc news confirmed that mark short, chief of staff for former vice president mike pence, appeared before a federal grand jury last week. according to multiple reports, greg jacob, pence's former legal counsel, has also testified. short is the highest ranking former white house official known, that we november, to have testify before the grand jury. with pence at the capitol during the insurrection and testified before the house select committee in january. short confirmed his grand jury appearance in an interview with abc news. >> i think that having the capitol ransacked the way that it was i think did present liability and dang, and i think the secret service did a phenomenal job that day. i think that the bigger risk and despite the way perhaps it was characterized and-of-in the hearings last week candidly is that if the mob had gotten closer to the vice president, i do think there would have been a massacre capitol that day.
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>> you think? meanwhile, there are new developments tonight relating to the secret service and text messages from the day of the insurrection that have been erased. two democratic house committee chairs, carol maloney of oversight and peppy thompson of homeland security, called for the inspector general of the department of homeland security to recuse himself from the investigation into the erased texts. in a letter to the inspector general they note his, quote, failure to promptly notify congress of crucial information in his investigation adding that, quote, these omissions left congress in the dark about key developments in this investigation and may have cost investigators precious time to capture relevant evidence. that's a lot. joining me now is congressman eric swalwell of california and paul butler, georgetown law professor and a former federal prosecutor. i'm very happy to have you on -- both of you on tart. congressman, i will start with you. i always think this is important when we talk about merrick
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garland. he doesn't give a lot of interviews. as a member of congress, as someone who is involved and concerned it was sort of a direct target of the insurrection. how comforted were you by merrick dawar lapd's interview? did he say things that bolster your confidence in the doj? do you now feel safer? what was your general response to his interview today? >> very comforted. good to see you in the chair, jason >> thank you >> and hello, paul, but, first, let me just say that the concern has been, and perhaps this is why he did the interview, is that because donald trump was a former president that he may be afforded, you know, privileges that no other everyday suspect would receive, and what we want is for him to not be treated any better than any ordinary citizen and to not be treated, of course, any worse, but evidence is so overwhelming. it's a mountain of evidence now that the committee has put forward. all of the arrows point to donald trump inflaming,
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incopyright and then aiming that mob right at the capitol to violently obstruct congress from doing our job and to defraud every citizen who voted in the election from having their vote counted. >> congressman, i want to follow up because i want to ask of this any member. it's been almost a year envelope since the attack, and i know, look, i don't care if i worked at kinkos or the post office or a grocery store. if i had been attacked at my job by a angry more, i would be terrified of that ever possibly happening again. when you talk to members of coming, when you guys are on your group chats, when you're having discussions, are members of congress feeling comfortable with this investigation as employees of the state? we understand the legal arguments, but when you go to work every day, when you talk to your colleagues and when people, are like, yeah, i think merrick garland have this handled, i would hate to see that again, is there that level of comfort amongst your colleagues? >> no, there's no comfort at all. in fact, for the first time ever
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last week i had to use a weapon stringing technology at a town hall because of the overwhelming amount of threats that have come to our office and my staff. the threats parrot the language that donald trump and others use. i got out of my car yesterday with an aide and a gentleman -- a gentleman is a polite way of referring to this person stormed at me and started screaming that the election was stolen and that i was the liar. the rhetoric that we're seeing from america's elective leaders, people running for of course, people who, are you know, colleagues of mine in this building just over my shoulder who are holding assault rifles and telling joe biden i dare you to come and take from me, people who are threatening to kill speaker pelosi, people who are making animated videos where they depict themselves killing joe biden, candidates for the senate who are saying they are going to go hunting, holding firearms for rinos, republicans
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in name only, this is inspiring the betweenon curious in america where one-third are ready to take up arms against their government. this is directly leading to, that and we saw that on january 6th, and that's why the work we have to do has to reflect that this is not looking back at an event that was in the past, but the plotters are at large, and the plotters through upcoming elections are seeking to be in charge. >> and some of them are still very likely in the building. paul, i want to play you some sound here. you know, one of the things merrick garland said is that the doj is sort of laying out a road map. i want to get your thoughts on this on the other side. >> the justice department has been doing the most wide-ranging investigation in its history, and the committee is doing an enormously wide-ranging investigation as well. if it's inevitable that there will be things that they find before we have found them and it's inevitable there are things that we find that they haven't
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found. the justice department has from the beginning been moving urgently to learn everything we can about this period and to bring to justice everybody who is criminally responsible for interfering with the peaceful transfer of power from one administration to another which is the fundamental element of our democracy. >> so, paul, if the january 6th committee is providing a road map, and i don't know if -- if merrick garland -- i don't know if he needs waze or google maps, congressman swalwell said we have a very, very clear map. what will it take for the doj to open up that map and follow through to conclusion, or are they sort of fumbling around in google? what's it going to take for them to finally take the steps that many of us feel they should have taken months ago? >> jason, the attorney general's statements to lester holt were a lot of wah, wah, wah. merrick garland was talking
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softly but saying nothing new. that was on purpose i think. the justice department doesn't make statements about its investigations until it brings charges, but here's the tension. prosecutors are not supposed to let politics influence their cases, but prosecutors keep up with the news so they know that soon trump will probably announce he's running for president, and if an indictment is handed down after that that will give trump more ammunition to say it's a political prosecution with biden just trying to eliminate a political opponent, and you're right. the house panel has provided a road map to prosecuting trump. there are different considerations in a criminal case than a congressional investigation, but at some point if merrick garland means it when he says that nobody is above the law, he needs to prove it by charging donald trump. >> paul, i want to dig into that a little bit because i think this idea, that you know, they don't want to be influenced by politics, it doesn't make any
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accepts. how can you not be influpsed by politics when it was a political insurrection. if i tell you it's not me, it's you. it's definitely you, right? >> yeah. >> how can they not take into consideration and a possible change in congress with what this investigation was for? >> look, i understand that garland is an institution and the he don't want the look of the justice department to be political prosecution like he's doing for biden what barr refused to do for trump, but at some point you have to weigh the cost of not prosecuting trump against the cost of prosecuting. it will no doubt be divisive, but the expressive value of not prosecuting trump is that a president can do anything and get away with it an an ex-president can use as a defense i've running for re-election to not be charged for the grossest most violent conduct.
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>> right. speaking of former presidents and former vice presidents, congressman, i have some sound here from former vice president mike pence sort of talking about the state of the party and where their movement may be, and i want to get your thoughts on the other side of that. >> i don't know that our movement is that divided. i don't know that the president and i differ on issues but we may differ on focus. i truly do believe that elections are about the future. >> now, look, i don't know what could be more divisive than my former boss trying to get people to hang me on the gallows but maybe i haven't had that kind of work environment. congressman, when you hear this thing from mike pence, does it discourage you, make you more frustrated thinking that many, many, many of the republicans are still going to be in the thrall of the former president and this insurrection despite the immediate threats and danger that it put their lives in?
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>> we need the courage that adam kinzinger, liz cheney, mitt romney and so many others have shown, but they are on an island right now, and i recently asked a homeland security official when america's leaders denounce violent rhetoric or if they fail to denounce, it does that have an effect onnence extremist grurns and the official, the experts said yes. when you denounce, it it quashes it. when you fail to denounce it they feel like they have a permissive lane. right now slept white nationalist extremist groups feel like they have a green light from donald trump and most of the maga republican party. by the way, this party of law and order. i'm the son of a police officer. my brother is a police officer. i worked as a prosecutor. i know law and order. they are not pro-cop. they are pro-coup, and until they denounce donald trump i refuse to say otherwise. >> paul, i want to close with this. you know, we know that obviously if you're not on the former president's side, if you're not
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on the side of the insurrection, they continue you to be an enemy one way or the other and now the january 6th committee is coming out saying, hey, look. the president did not call troops. he had every opportunity to call sort of national defense to come in and take care. is that sort of the kind of additional evidence that says, you know -- is there any justification for that other than donald trump saying i was lazy? is that yet another straw in the hat of this committee that it's very obvious that he wanted this attack to happen? >> we heard from the hearings last week that not only did the president fail to call off his insurrectionist troops. he actively encouraged their criminal conduct, their murderous conduct even after they knew that they were hunting down vice president pence and speaker pelosi was the object of killing them. he did not discourage that. he encouraged that. that's got to be the most egregious conduct of a president
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in the history of the united states, and there's no way that merrick garland can ignore that. >> thank you, congressman eric wall is well and paul but lersch thank you for starting us off today. up next on "the reidout," last time we saw him in d.c., he was running away like a cartoon villain, from you know, the inauguration of the man who actually beat him because donald trump couldn't accept the fact that the majority of americans had swiped left yet again. today he has returned as a visitor, and like an abusive relationship republicans still flock back to him despite leading an insurrection that would have killed many of them. "the reidout" about that discussion continues right after this. them them "the reidout and let you see any doctor. any specialist. anywhere in the u.s. who accepts medicare patients. so if you have this... discussion continues right after this
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donald trump has returned to the scene of his many crimes for the first time since leaving the white house. trump was back in washington, d.c. speaking at the america first agenda summit. trump was returned and was welcomed by some of the very people who were running for their lives through the hallway during the january 6 attack at the capitol, ken mccarthy, steve scalise and lindsey graham and ted cruz were among those there for the opening act and while most remain in lock step with the twice-impeached president the tide of the media outlet seems to be shifting away from donald trump on to the next far right star. in the past few days editorial boards of two rupert murdoch-owned conservative
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papers "the new york post" and "the wall street journal" both issued harsh rebukes of trump for his role in the insurrection. even trump's pals at "fox & friends" are questioning his standing as a 2024 front-runner compared to florida governor ron desantis. that led the former president to lash out on his own social media site calling the program, quote, terrible, saying they, quote, botched his poll numbers on purpose. joining me now is the editor-at-large of "the bulwark" and an msnbc political analyst and pollster. i am so excited to talk to both of you guys about this tonight because i think this is interesting, right? i'm -- the idea that the right wing media eco-sphere might be moving off of trump reminds me of that old "seinfeld" episode where like george and jerry were trying to do the switch. this is not easy to do. this is not something you can pull off. charlie, is it possible lat tuckers and sean han tis and sob else will actually make a move away from trump, or do you think
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this is just sort of nudging him to stay in order and keep along the lines of what they wanted in the past. do you think it could be a real split? >> well, i don't see it quite yet. you know, when you talk about the conservative media moving off of trump it's mainly the print media, and they are rupert murdoch newspapers, but if the print media was important in certain circles trump never would have gotten the nomination in the first place. it will be interesting to see what fox mimetime folks do. keep in mind something has been unleash that had can't easily be put back in the bottle, particularly by a party as feckless and gutless as this party has been, and so, you know, as long as you have talk radio and newsmax and the primetime of fox continually to push the line the split is only apparent. the other problem is this. who is going to take out donald trump there. may be a consensus in and among the established republicans, and
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unless somebody steps up and actually does it and denounces trump and says me, not him and it's one-on-one, it won't happen. otherwise we'll just have a replay of 2015 and 23016. you look at mike pence and you see the sort of embodiment of the disappointment of disappointing republicans. what he did on january 6th should be did the fining moment of his entire career, his entire life. rather than standing up and saying, look, this is me versus donald trump. he wanted to violate the constitution. i supported the cons tuesday. he's walking away from his own moment of courage. that's not the kind of political guy that will take down trump in 2024. >> as long as he wants to play the character from "game of thrones" and take any kind of abuse and kiss up to the former president there's no chance he'll be somebody of importance. >> correct. >> this brings to mind -- >> thank you -- >> brings to mine the current
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governor of your state. now, look, if you're trying to take control of an organization because the republicans are no longer a party that's an anti-democratic authoritarian nationalist, that's not convenient. it's a tough problem n.florida do you think ron desantis has the numbers both financial and polling-wise to really make a run at trump or is he hoping that somehow donald trump implodes on his own and he might be able to slip in? >> oh, jason, without question it's the latter scenario that you describe. desante sis many things. he's not a complete and total idiot. he knows that donald trump made him, and he also knows that donald trump can destroy him and that's why the game that desantis is playing is the waiting game. he's probably the person most heartened by the garland comments because it's going to take some sort of an act like that, an indictment of trump and maybe even a conviction to
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actually remove him from the scene completely. last i checked the republican party is still a cult. it is the cult of donald trump. he is the virus that took over the host and there's no way to kill the virus without killing the host. they are married to trump. they made it. they have to break it. there's no separating it, and as long as he has his sights on the nomination in 2024, jason, i don't see anyone prior it from donald trump's cold hands >> troy, i want to play some sound from mark short talking about not only sort of trump and the current state of the party, but also one of the shining lights of the republican party and when there also sort of speaks toib personal conflicts we'll be seeing in the coming months. >> well, i don't know if mike pence will run for president in 2024, but i don't think mate gaetz will have an impact on that fact. i'd be surprised if he was still voting. it's more likely he'll in prison for child sex trafficking by
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2024, and i'm actually surprise that had florida law enforcement still allows him to speak to teenage conferences like that, so i'm not too worried about what matt gaetz thinks. >> i tried to get the production team to play the ether beat behind that. we couldn't get it fast enough. look, it's really telling when you have this sort of republican-on-republican violence. i don't think the party is the no longer a cult, but what do you think it says that they are no longer closing ranks around somebody like matt gaetz who seemed basically like the teflon don for the last year and a half despite multiple allegations of inappropriate behavior? >> it looked like he was unchained, that he was willing to say things they weren't willing to say before. keep in mine it's one thing to criticize somebody like matt gaetz and something very different to go after donald trump. jason, i think your analysis of the republican party having this abusive relationship with donald trump is very, very anti-.
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they can't break away from it and the more he threatens them and insults them the tighter he clings to him. i agree with the analysis. we're a long way away from seeing the break f.ron desantis does run against donald trump he does know what trump will do to him. he also knows that donald trump is not going to accept defeat in a republican primary anymore than he does in a general election, so i don't want to be, you know -- come off as i'm being glib here, but there are a lot of republicans that basically are looking for something to happen to get them off the hook. you know, maybe there will be an indictment. neighbor will be a media attack. maybe there will be, you know, a deadly big mac, something that will solve the donald trump problem for them because they are unwilling to do this, so, yes, they are willing to fight with one another. they are willing to pull the knives out, you know, because, look, it's a massive grist and
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they are going to be doing that, but that's a very, very different sort of thing than taking on the king, the orange god king himself, and so i share ferdinand's skepticism about that. >> and, of course, when you come for the king, you best not miss, right because he'll come back and bury you financially and bury you rhetorically. with that in mind, one of the things we've heard the last couple of weeks, there's rumors the twice impeached president and the head of the maga movement that donald trump may be making announcement this fall. we don't know what's going to happen in 2024, but i can imagine in places like wisconsin where charlie is, in places like pennsylvania, possibly in places like florida that the former president announcing is going to force some of these senate candidates to have to declare their election to him right before the election and it seems sometimes donald trump is the best friend of the democrats because they have someone to run
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against. do you think his announcing this fall could affect key senate races if he shows they are more loyal to him than the constituents in the states they are running in? >> i absolutely do. charlie hinted at it earlier. donald trump has no interest in the republican party, could care less if the republican party succeeds or fails or blows up in history. donald trump cares about donald trump, and the other variable that we have to think about here is donald trump's calculation about an early announcement for support that it is what in his mind thinks will prevent that indictment from coming down, so when you add that element of an early announcement as a trump legal strategy to lower the pressure that he knows is coming his way, it becomes all of the more desperate an action and all of the more demanding of total loyalty from anyone in the republican party and god forbid the republican that does not show that loyalty and kiss that ring because trump will come
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after them. ron desantis, by the way, knows that better than anyone. >> thank you both for joining us tonight. >> thank you. up next, breaking news from "the washington post" that the justice department is investigating donald trump's actions as part of its criminal probe of the 2020 election. more on that when we come back. probe of the 202 it's a storm that crashes, and consumes, replacing thought with worry. but one thing can calm uncertainty. more on that when we come back an answer that leads to even more answers. mayo clinic. you know where to go.
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we're following breaking news tonight in the january 6th investigation. "the washington post" reports that the justice department is looking into the former president's actions as part of a criminal probe according to four people familiar. according to "the post," quote prosecutors who are questioning witnesses before a grand jury including two top aides to vice president mike pence have asked in recent days about conversations with trump, his laws of and others in his inner circle who sought to substitute trump allies for certified electors from. some states joe biden won according to two people familiar with the matter and in addition justice department investigators in april received phone records of key officials and aides of people in the trump administration including his former chief of staff mark meadow. paul butler is back with me, okay. we haven't called an audible here, paul. i'm of two minds here. talk to me like i'm 6. there's a part of me saying, okay, isn't this what they were doing all along and there's
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another part of me saying wait a minute. they are asking for phone records so maybe we've seen some progress between now and the "a" block between now and when you and i talked before. how should we take this new report? is this something new, or is this just basically merrick garland acknowledging something that we assumed was happening all along? >> jason, the stakes just got way higher. donald trump may now be the subject of a federal grand jury investigation. now that's different from being a target. criminal charges are not imminent, but the grand jury is actively investigating trump's criminal conduct. this is historic. >> so now they have got grand juries. now they are investigating him for direct conduct. so, as you said, this is lighting the cannedle, lighting the giant, you know, bomb, okay. it's sizzling. does that mean we could see something in the next 18 months? does that mean that -- i mean,
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by the time you had this information leak out does that mean you're rounding the curve, sore this likely just beginning? >> we have no idea because the department of justice just doesn't talk about its pace which appeared until really this week to be extremely slow and now it's a much faster pace. jason, i think the justice department is interested in two types of crimes, one is the cleanse and blood that we associate with insurrection day, january 6th, and we know that one of these witnesses, marc short, warned the secret service that mike pence was in danger because donald trump was going to turn on him, so think of sedition and incitement that both these witnesses are being called on.
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trump leaned hard on pens on the vote certification and that led to conspiracy to defraud the united states and impeding an investigation and i think this is encouraging news that trump will be brought to justice. >> joining me on the stone carol linney. thanks so much for joining us tonight with this breaking news. >> i have to ask you. you know, you'll have the people, the merrick garland supporters, a-ha, we told you all along. this is what happened. the other side is saying, hey, this might be a result of pressure from congress and the january 6th committee and the commentators and everything like that. where would you place this breaking news? is this a reflection of pressure? is the doj saying, yeah, hey, everybody, get off our back. or is this a reflection of the ongoing process and we should have trusted merrick garland all along? >> you know, i like to deal in facts and the facts that we discovered, my great colleagues
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and i at "the washington post" are as follows, that starting relatively slowly the department of justice began eyeing team trump and eyeing trump and his actions and i say slowly. january 6th and the efforts to overturn the election results of 2020 began in november of 2020 and continued to january 2021 and the first sign we can discover of the justice department really swinging their -- their microscope towards team trump is at the beginning and the first months of this year. what we also know though is the january 6th committee hearing definitely accelerated some things, but it wasn't the reason that the justice department began looking at team trump. they sought and obtained in late april phone records for many trump white house officials going all the way up to former
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chief of staff mark meadows and even in april before any hearings had begun, here the justice department was sifting through key communications, to peace together the road map of how trump's allies were using the levers of power and manipulating them to fraudulently claim the election was rigged and block, you know, what has been a wonderful tradition in our democracy, and that's the peaceful transfer of power. >> so, carol, what we had been getting all along sort of publicly was that the doj was working their way up, right? they are going to start with michael and get all the way up to tony soprano. do you think that what we're finding out today in this breaking news, is it a result of prosecuting the low-level people, the ali alexanders, the al insurrectionists on the ground, is that what ledded to this or do you think the calling for phone records is something else that was going to occur
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regardless? >> i think there are a couple of tracks here and it's so good that you ask because this is not your typical department of justice investigation from what my colleagues and i have been able to discern. it didn't start with michael and move up to mr. corleone, and i make that joke, but that is the typical drug cartel investigation. that is the typical major white collar conspiracy investigation or corporate and public corruption investigation, and that doesn't appear to be the case here. two tracks were the -- the department of justice put all of their energies early on in the days after january 6th into investigating and prosecuting the rioters that stormed the beaches at normandy, right, stormed the capitol. it was only later that they began really looking at the
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conspiracy that many critics of the department of justice say that happened right in front of their face and that was president trump and his allies perpetrating and a fraudulent agreement and to push the big lie, to -- to try to block vice president pens from certifying the election. i do not have any doubt that merrick garland believes they are rolling uphill, and mayor there is a progression that will get to that stage, but right now it's a much more broader net that is trying to gather everything about team trump and piece together what potential crimes may have occurred, including, you know, the most serious ones, seditious conspiracy to obstruct a government proceeding, and that is the certification of the election, the certification of
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the victory of joe biden. >> well, look, i -- if they are rolling it up the hill, hopefully they are running it up the hill sometime soon because this is the kind of breaking news that leads people to believe that a prosecution should be immeant. paul butler and carol linney, thanks so much for joining us tonight. dr. anthony fauci joins me next in an effort to check the sped of monkeypox and how to protect yourself from covid variants this fall. we'll be right back on "the reidout." t yourself from covid variants thi i'm jonathan lawson we'll be right back on "the reidout. on a fixed budget, remember the three ps. what are the three ps? the three ps of life insurance on a fixed budget
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monkeypox, that's right. monkeypox continues to spread with nearly 3,500 confirmed cases now report in the united states alone. the biden administration is weighing whether to declare the outbreak a public health emergency. according to "the washington post" are biden's decision could come this week tied to a planned announcement that 800,000 additional vaccine dose will be completed following a complete review of th food and drug administration. today matt ford described the symptoms of the viral disease which he contracted in june. >> i got a call on friday, june 17th, alerting me that i had been exposed a week before. shortly after i had really intense flu-like symptoms pick up and had lesions appear all over my body. there's more than 25 all over. joining me now is white house chief medical adviser
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dr. anthony fauci. thank you so much, doctor, for joining us this evening. first off, i just have to ask, because we're hearing this term monkeypox. we know that it's spreading. it's 3,500 people. how is monkeypox spread, and do we have concerns that the way it's spreading now may change and metastasize over time? >> well, it's spread by close kin-to-skin contact. the lesions or pustules on the skip. sometimes you can make them easily visible and see them. sometimes in their early form you may not notice them and confuse them with other skip lesions but it's really skin-to-skin contact is the major way. likely if you have pustules that spill over, for example, on clothing or other inanimate objects it can spread. this is a virus right now that it has inserted itself into the
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community of men who have sex with men, and about 99% of the cases that have now been reported are within that demographic group. that doesn't mean that other groups are going to be essentially free ofthere can bef cases that's why we were taking it very seriously, first of all for the community at risk. we want to make sure they are protected, we want to make sure they get enough testing, enough vaccination, and there is a therapy for. but it is a problem tracey that we take very seriously because it is spreading at at alarming rate as you show the numbers there. now more than 80 countries have had over 18,000 documented cases and that's probably an undercount. >> so you are saying it's primarily intimate sexual contact. should we as a country from a public health perspective be moving back to maybe 2020 or at
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least early 2021 standards where we go back to the social distancing? where we no longer shake hands? >> no. >> you're saying that is not necessary? >> no, no no. i think the -- idea don't confuse that idea. social distancing is when the virus is transmitted by the respiratory roots. there's no indication that this is transmitted that way all indications of the epidemiological profile as it is transmitted by close skin body to body contact, which is the reason why when you listen to the people who have been afflicted with this and you talk about the circumstances thus far almost invariable they say i had a sexual contact over the weekend with someone i didn't know very well and now all of a sudden a few days later i have these lesions appear. that is a recurring theme. there is no indication at this
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point although you always keep an open mind as to other more dallas modalities a spread. at this point it doesn't appear to be anything other than what we are talking about -- close person upper sandusky in a skin contact. >> so doctor fauci, we have seen a rise in cases the ba.5 variant in places like los angeles and dallas, and we've all seen a number of prominent public officials, vice president harris, president joe biden, manchin, susan murkowski, of all caught covid. my question for you is. many of them have made a point of saying hey look, i've got it, and taking a -- unvaccinated and working through it. but at the same time we've also seen reports that this idea of working through covid may also strain the body and length the symptoms. where do you stand in this idea the people should be working through covid regardless of how mild they think their symptoms
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are? >> well, first of all those are really good questions jason, thank you for asking that. it really believes on your symptomatology and your energy level. i am one of those people who are vaccinated, doubly boosted who actually got infected. i had a very, very mild case. i had a little bit of a sore throat, i had one day of a fever that responded very well to tylenol. and i had one night where i was having a lot of runny nose and blowing my nose. the next morning i went on -- i felt very well. i didn't stress myself but i did work in my capacity as director of a research institute. i did work via virtually on a zoom. i arrested a little bit more than i usually do, but i essentially fulfilled all of my functions. now if i was sick with a high fever and aches and real
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fatigue, certainly i would've not have tried to push myself. so what you're trying to say is don't push yourself but do what you can do in a measured way, be prudent about it. that's what i was doing and that's what the president actually did. he performed many of the functions because each day he was feeling better and better and he continue to improve, so there's nothing wrong with fulfilling your functions as long as you do it in a protected environment. asdoctor anthony fauci, thanks o much for coming in talking to us tonight. >> my pleasure thank you for having me. >> the grand opening of the new jackie robinson museum in new york city, dedicated to his groundbreaking work both on and off the field. we're back in a second to talk about that. we're back in a second t and h of wireframes. and you can find her,
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robinson changed america. that's a long time that's trump's age. breaking major leagues baseball's color barrier. today major league baseball opened a museum in his honor new york city. he blazed a path for other black ballplayers or more recently maybe saw him depicted by the actor in level 42. >> as a black man, i find it quite discouraging to look around and find out how little has been done to lift minorities from the level of poverty and despair. >> before his death in 1972, he helped shift public opinion. -- jackie's son, david robinson, not to be confused with the basketball player, told nbc's harry smith that his father was very aware of the position he
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was in. >> baseball was even for my father a social development tool. his success was a social change agent. >> today's museum opening is another major milestone in the legacy and it could not been done without his widow rachel robinson who turned 100 years old earlier this month. she was out on hand to cut the ribbon. and that's tonight's read out joys back tomorrow night. all in with chris hayes starts right now tonight on all in. >> the indictment of a former president a candidate for president would arguably tear the country apart. is that your concern? >> and an nbc news exclusive. >> there's been a lot of criticism a lot of pressure the doj is behind the committee.

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