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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  July 27, 2022 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT

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every single year. so these tumors, and really everybody i've said dear millennia was i'm sorry but my kids are millennials, so i'm speaking to them i suppose. so they have been relentless, it's all about transferring wealth and power. >> that's right, transferring wealth and power up and up. i have to have you back, because we need to talk more about this. it underlines a lot of the extremes in our politics. yet to get more crazy to sell that to their audience. that is nice readout, all in with chris hayes, guess, what's starts right now. tonight on all in. >> the justice department remains committed to holding all january six perpetrators at any level accountable under law. >> the twice impeached ex president becomes the subject
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of a criminal invest big asian -- tonight, asha rangappa and chuck rosenberg what it means to move from subject to target. -- jay johnson on the secret service scandal and why he says the case against the ex president is already indict-able. plus i debunking of a trump ally from trump tv -- and a new proposal that gives me genuine hope in these difficult times, when all in starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes all of a sudden there's a lot happening in the department of justice investigation into the january 6th insurrection. in just the last few days there's been a bunch of domestic developments some of which were gonna get into in a moment. but before he, do it's worth stepping back and looking at the bigger picture. because the significance here is well, large. for seven years now we've been covering donald trump and he's
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basically always been enmeshed in controversy and scandal. he's always been surrounded by investigations and allegations of criminality, serious ones. that's how he's lived his whole life, right on the edge of law, before entering politics and after. there's always been differentials and so trump manages to wriggle his weight of every jam. partly because he has it in a cagey sense of instincts by someone who's always scared of the rules, to walk closely the line -- plausible deniability. also because he's a powerful rich person with good lawyers. once he became president, there was of course the mueller investigation on the trump campaign's coordination with russia. and the criminal sabotage to our election. there was also the investigation into the alleged hush money that trump allegedly paid to cover up affairs, that resulted in michael cohen's plea deal. tsai vance had his own
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investigation into fraud in the trump organization, which was then handed to the current trump attorney. that's all separate from the new york state investigation into fraud, led by trump attorney general letitia james, which remains very active. to say nothing of trump's first impeachment over his pressure campaign to get ukraine to dig up dirt on the bidens. which of course and it in his acquittal. in fact, many of those cases fizzled isn't a reflection of trump's actual behavior. rather, it speaks to the ex presidents ability to avoid accountability for himself even as he often leads a slew of cronies investment over the bag. crucial, that does not appear to be the case right now and january 6th. at the very least, in the court of public opinion. now, there's a few reasons for this. first is the size, make historic nature of just when he did. attempting a coup, using a violent mob to disrupt the peaceful transfer of power, for the first time in the country
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since the firing of the captains at fort sumter. that led to the first second impeachment in u.s. history. that moment, the coup and all that, that will be the defining legacy of the trump administration. his own son recognized on the day, when he frantically texted his legacy is ruined. january six will be what's school children read about in their history textbooks. part of that has to do not only with nature the offense, but the excellent work at the january 6th committee. they've made a public case of trump's culpability, criminality, on television, again and again and again. and on one hand their efforts are obviously an attempt to sway the court of public opinion. but a lot of other ways they're speaking to an audience of one, attorney general merrick garland. that is the man with the authority to prosecute him for the coup. as clear that he is finishing.
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>> i think it's very important, it's an important part of democracy that every american recognize the truth of what happened on january 6th, i think that this is an important part, that we not downgrade or suppress how important that day was. and i think the hearings did an extremely good job of reminding us, for people who didn't know in the first, placed telling us how important that day was and what a risk it meant for the democracy. >> just since that interview we've learned that donald trump is reportedly the subject of a doj investigation into the attempted coup, and it feels as though a lot of that investigation is following the lead of the january 6th coup. for instance, last week, marc short, chief of staff to president mike pence testify before grand jury in an investigation. he also cooperated with the january six committee, who currently -- short explain that pence directly told trump, amid his
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pressure campaign, that he could not go along with trump's attempted coup >> was your impression of the vice president had directly conveyed his position on these issues to the president, not just to the world but directly to president trump. >> how do you been consistent juve in his opinion to the president. >> the doj investigation has gone even further, requesting testimony from a bunch of live committee witnesses like a guy -- he also testified before the committee and before a grand jury in the doj investigation and what we don't know where you said we do know what he told the committee about the pressure campaign as well as his conversations with john eastman. we -- during the insurrection as the two men hid well unarmed mom stormed the building, chanting hang mike pence.
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>> the vice president made several calls to check on the safety of others. it was his own life that was in great danger. >> mr. jacob, did donald trump ever call the vice president to check on a safety. ? >> he did not. >> mr. jacob, how did vice president pence and mrs. pence react to that? >> with frustration. >> with frustration, yeah he was probably a little frustrated by that situation. >> now, just today, more news, abc news reporting the cassidy hutchinson, of course, we know her from the hearings, the star witness of last month's draw trumping surprise committee hearing is also cooperating with the department of justice in some capacity they reportedly reached out to her specifically in response that testimony, i mean department of justice did, hutchison testified that trump's chief of staff mark meadows was warned of potential violence of the six. there is white house discussion
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of people like the oath keepers that have been charged with sedition. and the damning revelations that trump knew the crowd was armed before he sent them to the capitol, and that he wanted to go with them. >> i was in the vicinity of the conversation where i heard the president say something the effective, i don't care that they have weapons, they're not here to hurt me, let my people march of the capitol from, here take the effing -- away. >> once the president had gone into the vehicle with robbie, he thought they were going up to the capitol, and when bobby relate him were not, we don't have the assets to do, it is not secure, we're going back to the west wing. the president had very strong very angry response to that, tony described him as being irate the president said something to the effect of, i am the effing president, take
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me out to the capital now, to which bobby responded sir we have to go back to the west wing. we don't know when any of their cooperation with the department of justice looks, like how that investigation will unfold, it's kind of behind this black box, intentionally as merrick garland said you don't do investigations in public and it's important we don't do them in public. we learned from james comey just how destructive that could be. that said from what we can see outside the box because things become public either through reporting or public filings. someone shows up at a grand filing, you can take a picture of it. from all that, it sure is heck seems that we've entered a new chapter of this investigation, thanks and large part it seems to the work of january six committee. asha rangappa, is an attorney and former fbi special agent. >> chuck rosenberg it is a former cia official.
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it's good have you both, and because you both have a lot of institutional knowledge here, and have to say again we're watching the sort of outside of this black box machine occasional little glimpses come into view. trying to make sense of it. i just want to give your sense of how you understand the developments of what we've gotten in public, violence and also some of the reporting indicating that he is the subject of investigation. asha, what do you think? >> yes chris. what i am looking at is. who are they talking, to and are these people fruitful avenues of investigation to get to trump's personal liability. -- all those instances that you laid out in the, beginning is that we --
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partly by never having a paper trail, and partly by surrounding himself with loyalists will never rat him out. when frank jacobs allow, is for them to pierce that cone of silence. some vantage point of mike pence, to get to what was being told in those personal conversations, importantly they they are not loyal to donald trump. >> and so they're able to get to actual one-on-one conversations, and the pressure campaign on prince is key because it gets to both the fake elector plot and the whole conspiracy to the fraud, and he gets the incitement plot because he tweets to his followers that pence is on board, knowing he isn't, creating the powder keg that will later be used to send the mob to the capitol. i think it's a significant
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shift and where this investigation is heading. >> chuck, your thoughts? >> look, i generally agree with asha, i have a few things to add. i'm not surprised at the department of justice is looking at mr. trump's conduct i'd be surprised if they weren't. if you look at the frivolous litigation around the country, if you look at the called insurrection if you look at the fake electors, all of that is designed to keep mr. trump in power, he is the beneficiary of all of that stuff, so if you take mr. garland at his word, the attorney general and you do a wide ranging investigation, and no one's about the law, they will hold people accountable at all levels. how can they not be looking for mr. trump's conduct. >> but here is the question, right? i want to follow up with you, and then you asha. this is a line from nbc's
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reporting today, the reporting is forced to an administration official that there is an inquiry,. to overturn the 2020 election results not in a criminal investigation of trump himself, there's a little distinction between whether someone is the subject of an investigation or the target. how much will that distinction matter, how much will be thinking about that in context. >> let me start with the chris, the subject of someone in the scope of the investigation. meaning we haven't decided yet if that person is going to be the defendant one day, or merely a witness. a target is putative defendant, someone likely to be charged. but these categories are not immutable, you can move from one to the other, and people often do. so early in an investigation, you're more likely to have a number of subjects, because we haven't resolve their status fully yet. at the end of the investigation, you have your targets to become
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defendants, two of become convicted felons and incarcerated inmates. it's not immutable, it's not surprising that he would be within the scope of the investigation. the department hasn't called him the subject per se. but say he instigating some conduct this facilities saying someone is a subject. you can move, people often do, i wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of movement by different players. we don't know how the department sees him, or categorizes him. we just see where they are looking at generally, and that mr. trump is within the scope of that investigation. >> all right, and osha, i was struck by this reporting, and there is a few other things to fill in. you have john eastman who had his phone seized, there's a search warrant. jeffrey clark who had federal agents show up at his house. those are people, clearly, who are targets of investigation, they're not just asking questions, like you have to
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show a judge probable cause in order to get to secure those warrants -- to go out to chuck's point, who were they doing it on behalf of. there's just no way to do any of this in a void of a dude at the top, who's not the obvious beneficiary of the entire scheme. >> i think the question is how far can they go that really reaches into trump. chuck mentioned this being something that was for his personal benefit. look, i think this is what makes this a very challenging case for garland. this isn't just some side hustle, trafficking and stolen art while he was president, they can be dealt with separately. this was his political strategy, it is about his own political survival. and in that way is similar to the obstruction of the russia investigation, the concealment of the stormy daniels payment. the bribery quid pro quo with ukraine.
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when your are investigating a person's political strategy, a future candidates, not craze the potential for your investigation we characterized this political. whatever garland, says he has to be thinking about that and perceived very carefully, and on the other hand those are the exact kind of crimes you have to hold accountable, because they will be repeated by trump, or be a greenlight for future presidents. >> this -- the allen dershowitz -- at the first impeachment was basically, look, he was pursuing his own election which she thinks is for the good of the country. air, go logically, by deduction, it was for the good of the country. he can't be selfish. right? it's all politics, it's all within the bounds of politics. and the constitutional speech -- is gonna be one of the defenses. i don't think it amounts to. much asha rangappa and chuck rosenberg, thank you both. still ahead, given all we, know the evidence we know --
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lingered in the year and a half since the violent attack on january 6th is why the capitol police were basically left
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alone to defend themselves, and all the lawmakers -- not to mention the seat of the u.s. government. how could it be there was no plan to support them ahead of a day that donald trump teased would be quote, wild. and why did it take so long for backup to arrive on the -- when it was clear the capitol police were overwhelmed? we saw on television. where was the national guard? beginning that very afternoon, the trump white house attempted to tamp down those concerns with the big lie. hours into the attack, press secretary kayleigh mcenany said at president trump's direction, the national guard is on the way. not true. just a lie. not true. donald trump never directed the national guard to go to the capitol. maybe she was mistaken. but in the days before or on january 6th, it didn't happen. that did not stop trump himself from then lying on january 7th. >> i immediately deploy the national guard and federal law enforcement to secure the building and expel the intruders. america's and must always be a
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nation of law in order. >> we now know, thinks the testimony of the january six committee, donald trump had to be convinced to make that speech, the january 7th, one when he finally agreed, practically the first thing out of his mouth was that lie. i deploy the national guard. it had already been debunked, the new york times reporting on the evening of january 6th that trump, quote, rebuffed and resisted request to deploy the national guard. in the end, it was my -- vice president mike pence who approved the order to deploy. that did not stop trump, his allies and staff from repeating the lie over and over again. >> even in january that was given as many as 10,000 national guard troops were told to be on the ready by the secretary of defense. that was a direct order from president trump. >> a few weeks after that, trump said it again in an interview on fox news. this time trying to dump the blame on nancy pelosi.
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>> i definitely gave the number of 10,000 national guards. i think they should have 10,000 of the national guard ready. they took that number, from what i understand, they gave it to the people at the capitol, which is controlled by pelosi. and i heard they rejected it because -- >> of course that new part, also completely untrue. fabricated. trump has continue to spread this lie. even recently on his fake twitter platform, falsely claiming he recommended, offered thousands of troops and pelosi refused them. he will not stop refusing. it even, now 18 months later. then of course, it's the cable news echo chamber for trump pseudo-alibi. >> donald trump authorized up to 20,000 national guard soldiers to protect the capital. >> donald trump authorized the use of 20,000 national guard troops. >> donald trump called up the national guard today private -- prior. >> don't forget that president trump requested increased
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national guard -- >> -- was still doing this as recently as last month. according to -- he pushed the lie, at least 43 episodes of a show. including when he asked donald trump acting -- chris miller, to confirm they heard trump authorized the use of national guard troops before the sixth. >> mr. trump, unequivocally authorized up to 25 -- national guard for us to utilize since the second part of the law, the request come in, but the request never did. as you highlighted. >> let me be very clear. both of you said this under oath under the penalty of perjury? to the committee? >> absolutely, shawn. >> chris miller, absolutely shannon. there's no law against lying to fox news viewers, if there was they would not have a network. but there is a law against lying under oath. what story do you think chris miller, the guy who told sean hannity line --
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last month -- before the, six to be ready, when he told the genesis committee. the committee has released the tape. we will play for you next. we will play for you next. we're hittin' the trails between meetings. and putting the brakes on fried foods. jardiance is a once-daily pill that...not only lowers a1c, it goes beyond to reduce the risk of cardiovascular death for adults with type 2 diabetes and known heart disease. and jardiance may help you lose some weight. jardiance may cause serious side effects including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration that can lead to sudden worsening of kidney function and genital yeast or urinary tract infections. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking jardiance and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, ketoacidosis or an allergic reaction, and don't take it if you're on dialysis. taking jardiance with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. a once-daily pill that goes beyond lowering a1c? we're on it. we're on it with jardiance.
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a monster was attacking but the team remained calm. because with miro, they could problem solve together, and find the answer that was right under their nose. or... his nose.
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authorized up to 20,000 national guards men and women for us to utilize should the second part of the log requests come in, but those never came, and as you highlighted. >> let me be very clear, both
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of you said in this under oath, under the penalty of perjury. to the committee. >> under threat of oath, perjury, absolutely sean, unequivocally. not a lot of wiggle room in those statements. since january 6th, donald trump and his allies like kash patel, who apparently wears a custom cash patel lapel pin with $1 sign on, have repeated this underlie over and over, that the ex president authorized the national guard -- in the days leading, to it and ordered them to go in. now the january six committee has given proof debunking, it this is testimony under oath one of the very men that you heard spreading the lie with sean hannity on fox news last month donald trump's acting secretary of defense chris miller but. >> let me be clear that since then in february 2021, mark meadows on fox news said that
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even in january that was given and as many as 10,000 national guardsmen were told to be on the ready by the secretary. is there any accuracy to that statement? >> not from my perspective but there is never any congressional, order or new event he plans that nature. so i was surprised by scene that but -- so we obviously have plans to get more folks, there was not any more than contingency planning. >> so, for more clarity, you did not have 10,000 troops quote, to be ready for january 6th? >> non military person probably did have some sort of weird
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interpretation, but no, that was not part of my plan, where the consensus plan. >> lies, just lies, they just lie. >> joining me now, elie mystal, but justice correspondent for the nation, where he covers with -- and also lives. this is just one small little nugget, it's just one thing, but it's just very rare that you get but them to say the truth. and what to me the sort of speaks, to in some ways, is the power of subpoenas. the power of being under oath, which is a real thing with real consequences, and really does matter, so here we have an example of why it matters, why it matters at the january six committee can get people under oath. because they can't live like they do and sean hannity went before the committee. >> yeah, chris miller might as well have said that, it's weird that people actually believe the words coming out of my
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mouth because who would do that. that was his testimony under oath this is exactly what the subpoenas are so much power but this is a lesson that we all need to, learn and should've learned circuit 2015. these people live for a living. all they know how to do is lie, if they're not under oath everything they say should be viewed as a lie. if donald trump says i had a cheeseburger for dinner should happen next is a voice over saying that msnbc news could not confirm whether or not trump got the cheeseburger or chicken nuggets and is happy meal. we have to independently verify everything they say because all they do is a lie, that's all they know how to do. remember chris, a couple of weeks, go cassidy hutchinson testified and there is all this right-wing drama.
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but the secret service is gonna -- they do? that because they were lying. they weren't gonna come under oath to lie so they just have to put this out there when everybody knew that cassidy hutchison was telling the truth cushy testified under oath and these unnamed sources were just lying. at some point the rest of the media needs to catch up to reality and stop platform-ing these liars uncritically but. >> i will say, the new york times had good reporting on that night that he rebuffed calls and part of what makes the line so insidious, is that chris miller and kash patel were cronies going on tv to say that was the case. so they were the officials at issue. it's just that they were not telling the truth in public, and then when you got miller under oath, well then you actually get the real story.
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the other thing about this that strikes me, is that there is this narrative of teen normal versus team crazy that they have built in the committee, i think it's been savvy because it's like here are the constitutionally heroic or republicans, and here are the coup supporters and there's a distinction between the two. but the fact that team normal hasn't got on january 7th, is just complete bs. it shows you that team normal are all liars to. let's not forget the team normal are all liars we have to remember that. >> republicans have been playing this game for my entire life this idea that there are good republicans, they're decent republicans, the republicans that are not willing to sell out the country for an extra marginal percentage on the tax break. then there's the crazy ones. they're always trying to tell us this if you think about, it i'm old enough to remember when sam alito was the team normal
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republican, as opposed to push one and it is crony harriet myers, and look at sam aledo turn into. this idea that republicans, but there's something that republicans aren't willing to do for more power, just hasn't held up throughout history, in terms of movement within their party. are there individual -- measure of integrity, yes, there are individual people who can come find something within themselves, that resembles integrity and push it. but in terms of that being a wing of the party, are you kidding me? they just don't know how to operate like that, and again this goes back to our media training and our media understanding so we have to be able to listen to the news critically and understand that lie and liars lie, and take
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what they say without appropriate grain of salt. >> great, elie mystal, thank you. >> thanks for having me. >> too little too late, he turned in the secret service for deleting key texas, but now house democrats want him gone, we'll talk to president obama's security chief about all that, next. all that, next astepro and go. announcer: type 2 diabetes?
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him, that he wanted the secret service to remove the -- >> that is. correct >> when the president said he would be going to the capitol during his speech on the ellipse, secret service scrambled to find a way for him to go? >> mr. meadows had a conversation with me where he wanted me to work with secret service on a movement from the white house to the bullard hotel so he could attend the meeting or meetings with mr. giuliani and his associates. >> one thing the january 6th hearing showed, us was just how integral the secret service was to what happened the day of the capitol attack. that's why it was such a -- shock when we learned that all the text messages from dozens of agents from january 5th and six were deleted. that prompted the department of homeland security's inspector general to open an investigation. it's important to know the inspector general himself with the same dhs inspector dim -- during the trump administration. in fact, the guy who heads up the secret service right now the same guy who oversaw it
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during the insurrection. -- after the investigation to -- they've released a statement saying quote, to the insinuation that the secret service maliciously deleted text messages following a request is false. instead blaming a technical error. -- they're calling for the inspector general to step aside because he reportedly found out about those deleted text messages quote, in december 2021, two months earlier than previously reported and did not alert congress at the time. jeh johnson served as the head of homeland security -- it's the bodies to owe -- body that oversees the secret service. he joins us now. it's great to have you won. i want to start with the secret service. it is an agency with a lot of missiles attached to. it they have obviously an incredibly important and crucial job. there's a lot of people who work there who are patriots who take the job very seriously. institutionally, the story the secret service is telling here doesn't really add up. and i am wondering your
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perspective as a person who worked -- how are you hearing all of this? >> chris, first of, all thanks for having me on. my internet connections a little bit unstable so you might lose me and you'll end up talking to yourself. but i was the -- of secret service for three years. i was the protective secret service for three years. i was in their constant company. a little perspective here. the secret service is trained to take a bullet for the protectee. on occasion, even, the secret service is trained to save a protectee from himself, as we saw on january 6th. i would be, i have to say, i would be very surprised to learn that there was something nefarious around january 6th, related to january 6th, through the loss of these text messages. for a long as i've known the
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secret service, going back to my days as a federal prosecutor, 33 years ago, they are good at some things, but they are not good at the back office stuff. and one of the things that frustrated me most in the job of the dhs secretary was the oversight of the number of unforced errors coming out of the agency, while on the other hand, the central mission is executed flawlessly. like a un general assembly, for example. the largest -- of 2015 led by the secret service. in the context of the events around january 6th, where you have a presidential transition, and outgoing president who frankly is unhinged. and incoming president, the secret service in the middle of that transition. managing the security of january 20, and the nation is on high alert. frankly, i'm not surprised that they did not get the data migration completely perfect. we will learn more about this,
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but, i've had to admonish the secret service. i've had to ask for director's resignation. it is far from perfect in his aggie -- execution of a number of things, without a doubt. >> that's a very interesting perspective. and illuminating because of the experience you have. there were some scandals there, in the secret service during your period of time that you are overseeing it. i want to ask about something you said, you are formal prosecutor as you just referenced. you said more or less the public evidence that's presented could, in the hands of, aggressive prosecutor, be an indomitable prosecutable case. elaborate on that. >> based upon everything we know from public sources, including, most notably, the january 6th hearings, i believe that an aggressive prosecutor would be willing to take on the case against donald trump for
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participation in a seditious conspiracy. for a violation of the insurrection statute. in my opinion, january 6th was the very definition of an insurrection. and the statute punishes those who incited the insurrection and those who give aid and comfort there to. donald trump met the match -- he there were moments during january 6th where he -- poured gasoline on the fire and he was the commander-in-chief of all the fireman. and fail to call them in. i believe that we are well within the range of potential criminal liability if an aggressive prosecutor is willing to take that on. >> you've served on the administration. if i'm not mistaken, you are the general counsel of department of defense. long and distinguished legal career. i tend to think of individuals
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as yourself who made up the obama cabinet, and we're closely to the former president as, pretty strong institutionalist. believe in american institutions, to believe that they can be made to be responsive and produce increases in our welfare. and i guess i wonder, what do you think about the case of this will be bad for the country? it will tear the country apart? it's institutionally reckless to prosecute an ex president. from your perspective as someone who has served as long as you have. >> chris, i respect and admire with general for did in 1974, 75. swearing the country the prosecution of richard nixon. i think we live in different times right now. an argument could be made that if there is an indict-able case against the former president, yet we fail to prosecute him, we may be doing more harm to our democracy than if we for barrett.
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it is a different time now. and in my judgment, the actions that occurred during the trump presidency, around january 6th and before we're actually fall more serious than watergate. >> jeh johnson, think you so much for hanging out -- hanging with us through those technical difficulties. i really appreciate. it always good to see you, thank you very much. >> thanks. >> all right, here is a tease. i don't get to do very often. late breaking good news from the u.s. capitol. i swear. that's next. that's next. he answer that was right under their nose. or... his nose.
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right now is dyspepsia. gallup has an assessment of -- according to a quinnipiac poll, president biden's approval rating is at just 33%. those two are related. despite, that if you're an optimist looking for a sign of hope, look no further than the u.s. senate, where tonight, surprisingly, majority leader senator chuck schumer announced a surprise deal with west virginia democratic senator joe manchin on a reconciliation bill, that would invest hundreds of billions of dollars into major progressive priorities, it will include 369 billion dollars for energy security and climate change, making it the most ambitious climate action taken by congress ever. this is genuinely good, and genuinely surprising news, we'll see if it holds. it's a good reminder that, there are tons of people out there senate staffers, ordinary
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folks, working day and night, mobilizing to protect pryor's. for me, stories of people doing, not doing the work are inspiring and hopeful. there's a new podcast dedicated to tell a no story, is the cause for my good friend, new york times best you selling author heather mcghee, her new book the sum of us, it is how to build a effective democracy. that is fighter to interview people for a podcast with the same name, which is now available and spotify. heather mcghee joins me now. i love the book, and a very much looking for this podcast, because it's about building hope at the ground level. what did you learn as you went out and reported these stories? >> you know, i ended the book, the sum of us, with this audacious idea that we could be a lot closer to progress if we come together across lines of race in order to understand that we have a lot of
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collective power. it was sort of like a theory, and i think the people ask me the most about, like how do you do it? how do you still have hope? i decided to hit the road again. over the last nine months, i've crisscrossed the country again, finding all new stories, that are cross racial coalitions. largely the past majority in red in purple states, have come together cross cultural, and political, and religious lines to fight for something important to them, taking on a powerful interest and they are women. >> you've got a story in new mexico on abortion, which is really gripping and relevant, because right now there is this vote coming up in kansas on august 3rd. there's encouraging news on mobilization now -- to have times as many people have cast early ballots as of tuesday compared to the same point in the 2018 midterm primary. what does it look like when
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people mobilize around something like this? what happens? >> one of the most critical understandings that we really could be, is these ordinary people. the people who are featured is real heroes in democracy in the sum of us podcast, are a assistant, nonprofit estate oh, mom a refugee. these are all people who just say enough is enough, and they do something huge, and they take a risk, a small risk, and they encourage someone else to do that. that person's courage encourages them to take a bigger risk. it's really all about how messy it is to have cross racial coalitions, but how powerful it is. and you know, chris, we are a much more diverse nation than we've been racially. there's a lot of people who say that are growing diversity earth something to fear, and there's others who say something to cheer. this podcast really goes on the
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ground, and tells the stories of people who are living in the america that is becoming, and showing us how to make it work for all of us. >> the messiness, it's there, it's real! . >> it's and stories of misunderstandings, of biopsies, really a white republican any black civil rights leader trying to get together and form common cause to protect our democracy in florida. you know, the widest state in the nation, afghan muslim refugees coming into star small frogs. what could go wrong? >> there's all these stories in the podcast, that we recognize from the news, stories of potential division and misunderstanding. but so exciting is that we got people to talk about how they pushed through, it made something really amazing happened in their community. >> i like the term heroes of
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democracy, heather mcghee, but thank so much for joining us tonight, the sum of us, podcast on spotify, get in your ear is a soon as you can, thank you. that is all in on this wednesday night, and msnbc crime starts right now with many hudson, good evening buddy. good evening, chris. and thank you. thanks to you at home for joining us tonight. we have breaking news tonight involving democratic senator, joe manchin. but is not the type of joe manchin news you might be used to. by now you probably know joe manchin of the guy who blocks everything in congress. from president biden's build back better agenda to efforts to fight climate change, to attempt that filibuster reform, to taxing billionaires. joe manchin is made himself the man standing -- the democratic agenda yelling, stop. tonight -- may have just had a major breakthrough. the top democrat in the senate, chuck schumer released a joint statement with senator manchin saying the west virginia democrat will now support, not oppose, but yes,


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