they wrote it for themselves. thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these truly extraordinary times. we are so grateful. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. hi, ari, happy tuesday. >> happy tuesday. thanks, nick cole. welcome to "the beat." i'm ari melber. we are tracking more than one story and a big interview.

there's new reporting about the story that broke late yesterday, 40 subpoenas going all the way up to line to top people in trump's orbit. it's all about coup and insurrection. we have more on that. also something i told you about yesterday, bill gates is on "the beat" tonight in depth. climate change, inflation, public health, a.i., the metaverse. what he says we the west owe africa, not a conversation we have every night on the news. as well as a discussion about how mr. gates got somewhat involves in talking to joe manchin about what he says are good ideas by joe biden. so we're going to get into all of that. but we begin with republicans and the push to roll back women's rights at a time when democrats say it's wrong on policy and human rights and that they have a political answer that they think could help win the midterms. here's lindsey graham introducing a bill today. this is news right now, not a drill, that he says would ban abortion nationwide.

>> i think we should have a law at the federal level that would say after 15 weeks, no abortion on demand, and that should be where america's at. states have the ability to do it at the state level, and we have to ability in washington to speak on this issue if we choose. i have chosen to speak. >> senator graham says he's chosen to speak. many people say he is trying to speak for them. big government in their doctor's office, in their body, whatever language you want to use. a couple quick points here -- one, you'll notice that senator graham, this leading republican is directly contradicting what was the promise all along -- leave it up to the states. send it back to the states. lee it up to the states. that's what republicans promised all along to minimize what the abortion ruling would do. that's what justice alito

claimed his ruling do. now all of a sudden cat's out of the bag. it's all a lie. if you live in one of the states where officials said they will defend these rights. lindsey graham is putting you on notice if they get power back they'll override that. they'll try to ban abortion in new york and california and literally everywhere inside. power boundaries of the u.s. congress, the whole nation. this is a departure from what not only as i mentioned mr. republicans claimed and what the supreme court claimed but also -- and this is more predictable given that lindsey graham has been on every which side of every why including donald trump. here's what he said. >> the point i'm trying to make is this -- i think states should decide the issue of marriage and states should decide the issue of abortion. >> reporter: >> he's been consistent. okay. now, what is also striking here -- i mentioned policy and human rights first. we tried to cover the facts and law for you, but this is also fused with politics. and what is law if not just the

function of old politics? so many democrats say they will use this. they have the passion. 59% of democrats say choice and women's rights is a top issue compared to just 33% of republicans. we turn now to someone you often see with a painting behind him operating from his headquarters in california. but he's with me in person today, che komanduri, a veteran of several presidential campaigns, including obama's. welcome, sir. >> great to be here, ari. >> it's not a big surprise or news that lindsey graham contradicted his own recent claims. it is more striking to see a leading republican push this right now, not inflation or other issues, when it would seem the polling is against them. what do you see happening here? >> yeah, the senate republicans see -- and lindsey graham sees everything we're seeing. they're seeing women's voter registration surging. "the new york times" said across ten states it has gone up about 35%. what lindsey graham is saying is let's get turnout going an our

side. let's get turnout going on the anti-choice side, so he's put forward a national abortion ban, which is what this bill is, to try to get conservative turnout, because basically he is saying, forget about swing voters, forget about independent voters. we've lost them already. this is now a turnout battle. their side is turning out. we must get our side to turn out. >> so, your view is the contradiction is itself a kind of a tell that they feel they're already owning the narrative of women turning out more and this is a way to try to buck up a base that otherwise might say, well, they got their rule, their maybe not as energized. >> exactly, and one of the most interesting things was you immediately saw people like john cornyn distance themselves from lindsey graham's effort. this a know this is a bad strategic move. however, what is occurring here is that lindsey graham can't see past his own arrogance. he believes this is a good strategy, and part of the reason he believes it's a good strategy

is that the anti-choice side has been enormously successful in this country over 48 years. success breeds arrogance, and that's exactly what we're seeing right now. you know, what ralph reed, one of the founders of the christian -- was was the left's strategy was to paint their face and travel by night. you won't know they're dead until you're in the body bag. what they didn't count on is now the pro-choice side is out of the body bag and ready to vote. this is something they have no preparation for. >> you're definitely seeing enthusiasm. lindsey graham talking about other pocketbook issues in social security. take a listen. >> i am 66, soon will be 67. i have a good salary. i have a military retirement. i have a congressional pension plan. if you asked me to take a little less to save social security for people who need it more than i do, count me in. it's going to take that kind of

commitment from all of us. the wealthier people are going to have to take a little less in benefits. younger people are living longer, so we're going to have to adjust the age once again. >> it has a kind of a whiff of asserted populism. is it actually populist? >> no, it's an attempt to raise money from rich donors who do not want to contribute tax money to pay for social security. that is what lindsey graham is doing, rick scott is doing when they talk about cuts to social security. the republicans in addition to seeing polls go down have seen major problems with their fundraising. there's a whole discussion to what has happened to republican fundraising in this cycle while democrats have seen enormous surges in grassroots donations. so lindsey graham is guising in populism, but that's actually a plea to rich donors, you know, give us money, we're going to protect your tax dollars from going to social security. that's always been a popular position among rich people in this country, and that's why they're appealing to that.

>> you're pointing to a couple things that could work for democrats. i told viewers you worked for the obama/biden campaign. we find you -- this is a faint praise, we find you slightly less partisan than the typical beltway pundit. how's that? >> that is a very nice thing the say. >> i'm looking for your honesty in a situation that's tough for any encumbent, yes, gas is stabilizing but the prices are out of control, and that hits people week to week. you could black out the news, stop paying attention to whatever. you can't ignore that everything costs more than it did last year. here's the headline -- inflation stubbornly high. wages not keeping price with the fast rising prices. which they know is also an uncomfortable truth for a president who promised to make wage gains a centerpiece of his economic program. i ask you, what can democrats do about this other than change the

subject? you can't claim that's a great environment for the incumbent white house. >> we passed tin flags reduction act. that's something joe biden talked about today. he made it clear that battling inflation is a long-term prospect. however, we, the democratic party, has done things to lower health-care costs, lower energy costs, lower prescription drug prices, things that will help in the long-term to reduce inflation. the thing you also have to ask is, what are republicans going to do about inflation? i mean they have not had -- there's no plan on their part. >> i'll tell you what they're going to do -- they're willing to talk about it. >> are they? >> they'll talk about it on sunday shows. yeah, blaming biden for it, yeah. >> well, i hear them talk about defending trump in the mar-a-lago raid. i hear them talking as lindsey graham about abortion, i hear them talking about cuts to social security. i hear a lot of things other than discussion of inflation, the economy, and the gop plan.

>> you don't think they've found any way to connect on what their alternative would be. usually if you have a big enough incumbent problem, you don't have to have an alternative. you say, look how bad this person's messing up. >> right, but usually the way voters think about midterms is they are angry at the party in power, the party that is making changes to american life that they disapprove of. what has happened with the dobbs decision is the party in power for many voters is the republican supreme court. they are the ones who have done the most radical, far-reaching change in american life that we've seen in a very long time was the dobbs decision, and that is exactly why you're seeing this energy among democrats. you're seeing grassroots fundraising take off. you're seeing voter registrations among women takeoff. >> it's interesting when you tie it all together that way, makes one wonder whether you might be good at this. i'm going to fit in our shortest

break. as i mention you're on remote with that painting. who's it by? >> surrat. >> not an original i'm told. >> new york i can not afford that. >> but the bonus is we'll be together. we'll see you leaving. we got bill gates on "the beat" tonight. a.i., climate change, and why he says the west owes africa more than we're doing right now. there's also breaking news on the trump probes on jan 6th and the classified docs, as i mentioned when we're back in 60 seconds. 60 seconds. despite treatment it disrupts my skin with itch. it disrupts my skin with rash. but now, i can disrupt eczema with rinvoq. rinvoq is not a steroid, topical, or injection. it's one pill, once a day, that's effective without topical steroids. many taking rinvoq saw clear or almost-clear skin while some saw up to 100% clear skin. plus, they felt fast itch relief some as early as 2 days. that's rinvoq relief.

rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal, cancers including lymphoma and skin cancer, death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq, as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. disrupt the itch and rash of eczema. talk to your doctor about rinvoq. learn how abbvie can help you save. we are tracking this news story, including new information now. redactions removed. you can see some, but there's new information we have from those mar-a-lago search warrant materials. the judge allowed the justice department to basically release more information, and it shows something that's bad for trump, that the justice department repeated requests to recovered

the classified documents. subpoena also asked for surveillance video from january 10th through about august and that counsel for trump at one point told the fbi he was advised all records that came from the white house were store in the one location room within mar-a-lago called the storage room. now, it doesn't say according to the new material who advised that lawyer that apparently false information. also it's revealed that trump's lawyer further stated he was not advised there were any records in any private office space or their locations. that is known to be false. classified docs were found in did the account's office. you've seen the photos. the case appears to be moving forward with some agreement here between both parties. the justice department says it will accept one of trump's candidates to do this extra review, the special master review of the seized documents. that's one probe. then you have january 6th, doj issuing 40 subpoenas in a week, what "the new york times" has called the most significant

escalation to date, also seizing the phones of top trump advisers. today trump's legal team is on the attack saying that biden is somehow secretly pulling the strings. they don't have evidence but they're saying he weaponized doj. you'll note that is exactly what donald trump faced credible accusations of, including by his own fbi director, people at the doj, and most recently, his former hand-picked u.s. attorney for the southern district. many people say that looks like projection without evidence. cameras caught up with the committee chairman bennie thompson about when we're going to see this famed report that's supposed to come out of the committee. we'll have more about that on "the beat" this week. right now there's just a lot of different clues that suggest the committee is gearing back up. we have a very special guest here. he'll be on set with me. i bet you know who he is -- famed watergate prosecutor nick akerman is here with me on "the beat" right after this break.

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we are back on this breaking news with nick akerman, former watergate prosecutor, and this is one of those days where some of the documents tell the story. obviously some of this space redacted, but a few new clues here. one headline we've seen, i'm curious your reaction, is there was lying. you could use more fancy words, but there appears to be lying, and they're currently at the donl not locating it at trump's

level, it's his lawyer. >> i think that's right. we know that with the affidavit that was submitted in response to the grand jury subpoena. the lawyer basically represented that a very thorough search had been made of the entire premises and that this is all there was, which is false. >> right. and just pause there. if that were true, mr. trump would have never had his home searched, right? >> that's right, if that were true. >> if that were true, there would have been months he probably had things they shouldn't have, but they went out of their way to accommodate him, and they wouldn't have had the search. >> that would have been the end of it. >> what do we learn now? >> what we learn now is the lawyers were doing all kinds of things representing that he was -- there was nothing else there, and so either the lawyers were lied to by donald trump or the lawyers are in cahoots are donald trump. it's one or the other.

and you've got another lawyer who is also present there in may of this past year doing a search of his office with respect to the order that came from the new york state court on trump's taxes. and she claimed in her declaration that she had gone through all of his desks, all of his office and didn't find anything in the tax case. but there's no way she wouldn't have seen things marked classified with all those colors. she would have had to be color blind. it means trump would have moved it after or kept it there for reasons we don't know. >> you have that against bill barr saying -- there's a technical case where you could technically indict trump, but in fairness unlike, say, the coup, where there's a lot of stuff

tied directly to him, we've still got -- it's a lot of space. it's a lot of lawyer conversations layers between doj before you get to trump. do you see this as, at this juncture, not as strong of a case as compared to georgia or the federal coup case? >> that is correct, at least as far as we know at this point. but certainly the government has witnesses. there was material found in donald trump's office, and we just don't know what else is in there. lookit, the espionage act can go anywhere from possessing the records to selling the records to a foreign government. or somewhere in between. >> yeah, and that -- no one's going there yet with evidence. >> exactly, no one's going there. the fact of the matter is we just don't know what they're saying, and even if you had the affidavit that was submitted here, that wouldn't necessarily tell you everything the government knows, because they

would have gone in with their strongest piece. that is that he possessed the classified information. >> right, and we still to your point, there's other stuff we don't know, and in my experience, when they go round and round and you get a couple revelations and then this stuff's still redacted, that's the really good stuff. >> of course. that's what the witnesses are saying, right? >> people know -- our loyal viewers know you as watergate. you also were sdny, right? >> that's correct. >> i think we have jeff berman. he is speaking out more now. let's take a listen to jeff berman. >> it was an extraordinary revelation from the department of justice that donald trump and those around donald trump are being investigated not merely for the mishandling of classified information but for obstruction of the subpoena that required the production of that classified information.

that is a very, very serious charge. >> now, he's one of trump's hand-picked prosecutors, although he didn't go maybe the way trump wanted. his view is what we were just discussing -- the lawyers lie organize probably lying if you want to be as charitable as possible, could become criminal obstruction. not good for a lawyer to do. and two, he has been speaking out about a book of what were donald trump's demands to do political prosecutions out of sdny. give us your views on that. >> first of all, what he was asked to do is outrageous. asked to create a case on this fellow greg craig who was in the obama administration. investigated and concluded the guy was innocent. what did donald trump do and his justice department do? took it down to the district of columbia u.s. attorney's office and indicted on it, and of course what happened was just as jeff berman had decided, this guy was acquitted, you know, in a few hours.

i mean, there was no case there. i mean, all of it, if you had to compare it to anything in watergate, it was like how the nixon administration tried to use the internal revenue service to go after his enemies after larry o'brien, a bunch of democrats, and kind of like jeffrey berman, what was interesting was it was the people there, the civil servants, the people who had the ability to say, no, i'm not going to do it or somehow avoided doing it, just like jeff berman describes how he did it, that they were able to basically put it off. >> right, and so there's -- it's bittersweet. it's a lot of problems how much trump pushed, and it tells you the plan if they got back in office as far as lawyers are concerned and doj, but it shows you some people who stood up to it. thank you. >> thank you. coming up tonight, bill gates, our special guest on "the beat." stay with us. we also have an update on chief

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turning to a dissent of a different kind. justice elena kagan is dissenting but it's not in an opinion. this is her apparent rebut toll chief justice roberts as the legitimacy of the supreme court has been called into question for all the reasons you know we've covered on work roe being overturned after so many of this

court pledged that's exactly what they wouldn't do. the court has the lowest ever approval ratings that have been registered. it has that decision i mentioned and chief justice roberted made his statement about the court, and in a way he seemed to fuzz or conflate the issues and blame others. >> lately the criticism is phrased in terms of, because of these opinions it calls into question the legitimacy of the court. we don't want to political branches telling you what the law is, and you don't want public opinion to be the guide of what the appropriate decision is. but simply because people disagree with an opinion is not a basis for questioning the legitimacy of the court. >> chief justice roberts suggesting that people are only going off their personal opinions, and it is true personal disagreement with a ruling is not a great way to judge the court, but that's not accurate. people are holding the court to its own standards of precedent,

which it broke, and that brings us to kagan who now says, quote, i think judges create legitimacy problems for themselves, undermine their legitimacy when they don't act so much like courts and when they don't do things that are recognizaby law or lawful. she said, if one judge dies and another judge comes in and all of a sudden the law changes on you, what does that say? ever the diplomat, justice kagan -- and in fairness, justice roberts as well -- are both sort of putting it up here. they could walk away from it. they're not saying it to each other, but we do think, and we keep it real with you, they're talking about the most controversial decision in a generation. meanwhile, only 27% of americans have high confidence in fact court, down 12 points. and in other legal news this evening, federal prosecutor ken starr has died at 76 years old.

the reason was citing complications of surgery. he proved to be a widely known lawyer and a controversial one when he delved into investigations. he led the whitewater probe against clinton, switching sides. we have had him right here at this desk on "the beat." so tonight we mark the passing of ken starr. i wanted to share that with you. i also want to tell you what we have coming up. a very special guest and in-depth interview -- bill gates on global poverty, climate change, what he's doing with the biden administration agenda from time to time, why he thinks the best tech out there would actually help farmers in africa and what we owe africa. that's next. next. helps reduce your background noise. bring that sense of calm, really... so you come through, loud and clear. meta portal.

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i'd like to thank our sponsor liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. contestants ready? go! only pay for what you need. jingle: liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. inflation is a big issue in many parts of the world. americans are hopeful it may have reached its peak after skyrocketing. it's one of several issues where we see the post pandemic realities' many aftershocks from covid. businesses hit with unemployment covid dead. the global economy continues to slow, and the heat waves this summer also some of the worst ever recorded, which makes you buy more a.c. and spend more money as cost goes up. these are intertwined problems and, they actually are facing an

attempted effort to combat many of the ways that they connect. by an expert on business, technology, health, and philanthropy, bill gates. >> if anything kills over 10 million people in the next few decades, it's most likely to be a highly infectious virus rather than a war. we've actually invested very little in a system to stop an epidemic. >> fact check, true. that was 2015, and whenever you think of all the different things mr. gates has done, he has clearly distinguished himself as someone who sees around corners. in this billionaire era he's someone who's emerged at the forefront of several fields, wanting us not just as taxpayer bus global citizens to be prepared for what we're likely to pace, and he's put his credibility and money on focusing on certain issues that he says are the most important for global well being, including

public health and tackling these issues through a nonprofit that works with leaders around the globe and tries to convince governments to do what he says is not only the right thing but often the most cost effective way to save lives. >> joining me now is bill gates, cofounder of microsoft, which he started in 1975 when he was 19. cofounder of the gates foundation, now the largest fill on tlo byic -- the annual goal keepers report is out, now tracking progress towards the foundation's sustainable development goals around the world. mr. gates, thank you for being here. >> great to talk to you. >> absolutely. the goal keepers' report tracks progress towards inequality, poverty, climate change. in the poverty department, world hunger was decreasing again.

your report out now says what's better than donating food aid is making deeper changes to fix food access. how? >> well, the productivity of african agriculture is only a quarter of american agriculture, so by working with those farmers to get them seeds that are better adapted to the weather where they live and improving the crops that are typical there that are often very different from rich world crops, getting them advice, we can raise that productivity. and so africa's not a gigantic food importer and they're able to deal with the challenges of population growth and climate change. >> yeah, that was an interesting part of your report. you write about the hybrid corn or magic seeds.

how does that work? >> well, the seeds that we have can be improved dramatically, and in fact in the u.s., the corn seeds are constantly being improved. there's a gigantic market there. in the 1970s, what was called the green revolution more than doubled the productivity of rice, wheat, and corn, and yet we never did the right work on the seeds to make that increase available in africa. and so it clearly can be done. they're having a drought now. you know, the pandemic disrupted their food systems. and so they end up with mall nourishment and even starvation, and so we need to care both about the accuse crisis there but also about a long-term plan

to make them an exporter, you know, which if we are generous over the next 15 years, that's an achievable goal. >> and you're working here on climate change with your money, the business with the fill on an tlo by that is an investment in the future, and then of course there's governments. i want to show you senator manchin explaining why he once opposed a package related to the climate reform. >> this is a mammoth piece of legislation. i had my reserves since five months ago. the inflation i worry about is not transstory, it's real. it's making it difficult for them to continue. i cannot vote to continue with this piece of legislation. i just can't. >> you hear him there, mr. gates? >> i heard that, yeah. >> and then for a range of reasons, there was this progress. they got the climate bill

passed. for folks who don't know, you were personally lobbying some of these legislators. and so i'm curious if you could tell us more about that. why of all the things in the world you were engaged on this and how did you or others move senator manchin? >> well, senator's manchin's concern about inflation is very well placed. and, you know, the size of this bill in its beginning was absolutely gigantic in terms of the deficit spending involved and not funding programs for the full ten years. what eventually emerged is a much more targeted bill, a lot smaller, and the reason i was involved is that i see the opportunity here for american innovation to do climate related products. and you know, that can create

jobs, both new jobs and jobs to replace the ones that as hydrocarbon production is going down, that you want to shift into these new industries and you want america to lead the way. and so it's got tax credits for innovative work in the areas of climate change where we don't currently have economic solutions. and so, you know, i put a lot of money into that, and so i'm always glad to talk with politicians or other people. you know, i'm not taking any credit for the bill. you know, people like senator schumer, senator manchin work hard, and i do think the bill is a great achievement to solve climate change and build new american industries. >> you're in kind of a different position than some, i think you would agree, and you've proven yourself to be good at both tech innovation as well as business.

in reading that,ives just curious, mr. gates, if we're going to get the kind of leaps that you need in agriculture rnd, do you think that fundamentally has to come out of something other than global capitalism business model, and that's part of what you're working on? or can it be both? is it philanthropy and businesses finding ways to do this is this. >> the basic understanding is very market driven. so, the seed markets in the rich countries, you know, work very well. we do need, you know, some government money and philanthroic money to make the advances and make sure the poorest in the world have access to them. the market systems work great, but then when it comes to making sure that the africans, who are suffering massively because of climate change, which they did

nothing to cause -- all of that comes from the emissions from rich countries -- and at the very least, try to make sure they're not going backwards and make sure they can feed their children and avoid malnutrition, upping to the goal of $2 million a year public domain seed innovation, we owe that to them, you know, so they can thrive, be stable, eventually be completely self-sufficient. >> it's interesting when you put it that way. you're using a long-term time line to figure out what could work. you know, in politics they talk about that kind of stuff as a debt or reparations. you're talking about people in places that are live under the problems created by the richer parts of the world. so very interesting to hear you put it that way. related, you write that the largest problem in food access since the invention of agriculture, which goes back a way, is this climate change, this climate crisis.

one, do people understand that, that our climate crisis, according to the research and the people you're working with, is a good crisis? and two, how do you fix that in a way that's equitable, as you say in a way that doesn't lean on the countries that didn't cause the problem? >> the amount of resources to make these better seeds is not gigantic. it can fit inside the few percent of the government budget that is the aid budget. and you know, we've committed to help what's called climate adaptation, helping these countries avoid the big negative effects. the closer you are to the equator, of course, as it gets warmer, you get to temperatures where the crops aren't going as well, and sometimes farmers can't even work outside. and so getting seeds to deal

with that temperature, we have the signs. we know that it can be done, but it's a need of these poor countries that couldn't afford that themselves. >> on the climate side you've also become one of the largest landowners in the united states. over 18 states -- soybeans, potatoes. a lot of different things going on there. do you apply the goal keepers' climate policies and requirements to all of that land that you and sort of your companies own? >> my investment group is investing in those farms, raising their productivity, but, you know, you wouldn't -- it's not similar to a farm in africa. a farm in africa has no tractor. you know, they have a tough time getting credit. so pretty different set of problems. >> i guess, yeah, i'm just curious, for example, one

environmentalist john quarterman says you have all that land, true, different geographically, but you could try different techniques to reduce damage from big farming. so because you have more than one role, is there a place to o environmentalism to change the status quo on those properties or you see that as business and as you say, they're running the way they run? >> well, there are, you know, all these areas, they evolve. they understand how to say, use less fertilizer, which is both good economically and good environmentally. but if you looked at what the state of the art is on a u.s. farm versus an african farm, the issues would be utterly different. they don't have any mechanization whatsoever and their typical farm would be about 1,000th the size of an

american farm. and they're basically growing food for themselves, so it may have a bad year, they face malnutrition. fortunately, that's not the case in the united states. >> while we have you, i was curious about one of the other innovations. this new toilet. some of the headlines call it sort of a special environmental poop toilet. i don't know the best thing to call it. but it seems to be a potentially positive breakthrough. can you explain? >> yeah, so the way that sewage is handled in rich countries is you have the sewer system and a central processing facility. there's a lot of places, either because that's too expensive or for environmental reasons, where you can't do that. and so the sewage today is not being prossed in poor countries.

so what we're trying to do is make it inexpensive to literally build into the toilet that processing so you burn up the waste and you make sure that it's not causing disease. it's not -- there's not bad smells escaping. so it's a reinvention of the toilet. you know, the key is to make it inexpensive. it clearly works, but we're doing a lot to drive the price down and make that available even in urban africa. >> really interesting. i also wanted to tap your mind a little bit about the metaverse. i presume you would say, mr. gates, you can't see the future, right? would you say? >> we all try, but none of us are reliable soothsayers. >> we try. i think it is a demonstrated fact you have been able to see

around corners or make projections about the future that have proved more accurate than many. it certainly happened in tech. then it happened again in pandemic and covid preparation. we spoke about that the last time you wr on "the beat." you made the point you were working off data about the past and present. to be prepared. so we dug up something we think is a little interesting. you facing skepticism at the time from david letterman about this new internet thing. take a look. >> what about this internet thing? do you know anything about that? >> sure. >> what the hell is that exactly? >> well, it's become a place where people are publishing information. so everybody can have their own home page, companies are there. the latest information. it's wild what's going on. you can send electronic mail to people. it is the big new thing. >> i can remember a couple months ago, there was like a big breakthrough announcement that on the internet or on some computer deal, they were going to broadcast a baseball game.

you could listen to a baseball game on your computer. and i just thought to myself, does radio ring a bell? >> i think you had it maybe a little more accurate than him. it's proven larger than radio. kind of as we wrap up our conversation about the world and the future, mr. gates, this metaverse so called web 3.0, do you see it as being a place where more life society and commerce will function? will it be a big part of the economy? how do you advice people to look at that? >> i think that immersive experience where you're in a 3d world, that's being used in gaming. it's used in some simulation. that is a fine thing. the thing that's really dramatic, though, is that the intelligence behind the software for things like drug discovery

or optimizing manufacturing processes, i would say the a.i. is where i'm excited about software getting a lot better. we'll have some immersive interface, but compared to the web 3 things, i think a.i. is far, far more important. and there are great advances taking place there. >> final question then. you're sort of advising us to think of metaverse as a little more like a cyber place, a video game, but the a.i. backbone and a.i. applications in the real world could be far more profound? >> absolutely. >> yeah. mr. bill gates, thank you for making time. >> thank you. great to talk to you. >> appreciate it. >> and to see this entire interview with bill gates, you can go online right now. you can go to my twitter at ari melber, you can go to youtube

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tonight on "the reidout." >> the person said hey, you have just indicted two major allies of the president. chris collins, a republican congressman from upstate new york. and michael cohen, the president's lawyer and fixer. and it's time to even things out by indicting a democrat before the midterms. >> the bombshell new allegations from former u.s. attorney geoffrey berman that trump and willier barr wanted him to put his thumb on the