tv The 11th Hour With Stephanie Ruhle MSNBC September 16, 2022 8:00pm-9:00pm PDT
resistance. the war goes on. but the people of ukraine are determined to survive. whatever happens next. ♪ ♪ ♪ tonight, the justice department's appeal of a trump appointed judges ruling in mar-a-lago documents case. why they want part of the decision overturned, and what it could mean for the investigation. plus the atrocities of war. a mass grave discovered as ukraine retakes achy territory once held by russia. president zelenskyy's former press secretary is here. then, viral videos of joy. young black girls reacting to the new casting of the little mermaid. why this representation is so important, but not without
backlash, as the 11th hour gets underway on a friday night. good evening once again, i'm stephanie ruhle and we have breaking news and a legal showdown over those classified documents seized from donald trump's florida club. the fight over those highly sensitive records now held to a federal appeals court. just hours, ago the justice department hired filed its appeal for part of aileen -- ruling. the doj is asking the appeals court to block cannons order preventing the justice department from using -- on thursday, cannon named another judge, judge raymond dearie i special master in the case. she wants him to the finish going through all 11,000 documents -- and he is already getting started. today he told both the doj --
we know the washington post reports that donald trump's team misrepresented the documents. writing this. 100 classified documents, in 15 boxes for the former president's mar-a-lago club, they were told that none of the material was sensitive or classified, and trump only had 12 boxes of, quote, news clippings. according to people familiar with the conversations between trump's team and the archives. earlier this evening, congressman eric swalwell spoke to my colleague chris hayes about the possibility of trump still having classified documents in his possession. --
when foreign nationals has you been in contact with? >> i want to know all of the above, and with that let's get smarter with the help of a superstar, camilla cattle joins us, and former acting solicitor general during the obama administration. he's argued dozens of cases before the supreme court. harry lippman joins me right here -- and charlie savage is here, washington correspondent for the new york times. offer of power wars, the relentless rise of secrecy. within the last few, hours you wrote the breaking article covering all this ruling, we need to know? >> so, the bottom line is that the justice department had gone yesterday to the federal judge, who imposed a special master. and said look we could acquiesced to there being a master, we can acquiesce --
but we can't live with not been able to have immediate unfettered access to the hundred or so documents marked as classified. please stay that portion of the order, just so we can keep investigating those documents, and she said no. so tonight, they went to the 11th circuit, the federal appeals court that is based in atlanta, and they asked them to stay that portion of the ruling, that would allow them to resume unfettered access, just of the hundred documents with classification markings, which they say is important for a variety of national security reasons. >> when you think is the most important thing you learn tonight? >> well i think the most important thing is that the justice department is fighting this. they gave this judge a chance, a lifeline. because, her two decisions are literally the two most atrocious decisions i've ever raised by a trial judge.
but they're really really pathetically bad. and the government said look these hundred documents are highly sensitive national security documents, and there's three reasons why, judge, you should at least let these documents, allow us to look back at them. one, is because we need them for a criminal investigation, because where the subject of the investigation. to, the really important to our national security -- sources and methods are compromised. and three, they've told her there is no chance in the world and donald trump owns these government documents. these are classified, highly sensitive documents. and donald trump, you're watching a little too much british tv about prince charles, trying to think your king or something like that, no chance. that you own these documents. those of the three documents, the judges blew them off yesterday, and so the justice
department today filed essentially the same brief, as what they fall before her say no chance these are trumps documents, whatever you think about the special master, and even bill barr called that trump's response there a crock of the s-word. and, here this is double crocs, this really. that this moose heads into part of that. or the justice department hussein is whatever you think of a special master in general for attorney-client information, where this or that for these hundred documents, there's no chance in the world in need a special master. and that is a very strong appeal, steph. >> but neil, here's what i don't get, it doesn't actually matter what bill barr says, he's just a tv pundit, an author, a private citizen. you can call the judge cray cray all day, you can call her ruling atrocious, but she's the judge. she makes a decision. and like king charles she's on the bench for life.
>> yeah, i mean, i'm not gonna characterize or motivations i don't know what they are. she's just wrote really a terrible ruling, and the one good thing about the american legal system, is that there is a court of appeals, and this court of appeals will take a look at this, and it is incredibly hard, steph, to think, but this legal reasoning can survive. i think of top more than 2000 students in georgetown law school, i can't think of one student who would write a worse opinion than this thing. oh >> wow, harriet what do you think? >> i think it doesn't like it. >> harry's assessment, neil cat yelled doesn't like it. >> but it's more than that. and -- look at not a matter of sort of liberal versus versus
conservative judicial philosophy, it's not a matter of a slapped on fact it really is a completely incoherent opinion. so i know, it's been trash right and left. but really with trusted justification. it's a conservative court, but is the same kind of argument. they say look, let's go back to first, principles he sued under a special statute that says i have a right to have these and the department is just come in as they did before her and said, no way, no how, forget about, it eight ways to sunday. and it's just right there. the one thing that she said to sort of go his way is a shoe david's argument, and this, is it i'm not giving it. maybe they're not classified, even though the government says they are, imagine if we ran our classification system that way, with the government in the executive branch made a decision, but it is sort of a
recommendation for a district judge in palm beach florida, it really is a matter of, he's got no way out of the gate, and therefore -- for these hundred, they're been very supportive strategic and temporary and modest for these hundred. there's no way, even, try to give legal reasoning for him, and it was time arabesque. >> neil, andrew weizmann wrote this down and basically said, imagine you are fired from her job, and before you left that job, you stole the most precious, valuable things from her company, you took those items to your house, months later the company says you have to get the stuff back. you say no, i don't have, it you don't give a, back then gets pulled back, and then you then sue the company saying, i'm gonna do that stuff back, belongs to me. is that what trump is doing here? >> yes, and even worse, this
concept of irreparable harm. -- they wanted the relief from the ridiculous rolling. in order to get that you do need to show some irreparable harm. it's a strong a case is a summation-able. what they are saying is that right now, we have spies in the fields, and then some of the maybe work for foreign governments or who knows what their day jobs, they're risking their lives to give the united states information. now, if you're one of those spies, and you now know that donald trump brought home these highly classified sensitive documents about human source information, and lord knows who got to see those documents, if you are that's by, you're not gonna want to be providing information to the united states government right now. you will shut up. and, you'll be worried that you
make it killed. so the government was sir as ot national security implications what donald trump was doing, and they have to let yank those winds in the field to save their lives of their families lives, they need to do that. and what this judge that is oh, i don't really buy that sworn affidavit from the fbi and alike and it's done irreparable harm to donald trump. what was the harm to him? his reputation. because unlike you and we have steph she said he's a former president and they get special rights this is an american it's soviet it's bad as it gets andrew weizmann is exactly correct. >> do former presidents get special rights,, especially when as neil points out, this content could be putting peoples lives at risk? >> only in the southern district of florida. it's such an abrogation of basic principles, i just want to underscore one thing he said
she had an affidavit in front of her the leaves it all out in chapter and verse. you are a public enemy, there is current danger to the national security, she just said i don't quite by it. and there is nothing on the other side, this is not, again, the sort of sober is a little liberal versus conservative, this is right versus wrong. >> how long can this take? there is one thing that donald trump likes to do, so the game, draw this out as long as possible. yes >> now their fellow disappear all, was a time? >> the process that she has laid out, not in the appeal, could be a recipe for real delay with the special master going through executive privilege talks. as neil, said they will file for an emergency state, that's a few days. and i expect they're gonna get it, so we're -- then you freeze the linebackers and you do for their arguments but thing she has done, but the number one thing they want --
>> let sock about the -- what's not all about? >> that's just step. when he's got ten days to come up with the schedule, based on our order and maybe add another five days to object. it's a process that is going to unfold for months as you mentioned she gives him a deadline of november 30 to wrap this up, it austrian with the trump team looking at each and every one of those 11,000 plus documents and making it initial's assessment about what they think he should categorize it as it is a case though that she gave him an instruction and it's something of a concession to the government she gave them an instruction to start with those hundred documents. she suggested to issue an
interim report saying this is what should happen to the hundred documents, and then she might let them have access to that, it's possible they can get what they want even if it's not through this emergency state process, now all the way the back end of november 30th, these documents. and really for their obstruction case, for their criminal case of defying a subpoena and saying they complied with, it they only need one document that is codified to do that. >> that's separate from the national security review we've been talking about, we need all of them to analyze the pattern is, trying to realize if there's any more than that are missing, they might have taken in those empty folders the vince talked about so much. -- to something that could be much earlier than november 30th,
stephanie? >> yes just both of my colleagues, here are so fabulous, i don't think they're quite thinking like trump so if you're trump, the whole game name of your game's delay. and yes, for charlie, there's a special master deadline of november 30th. that's just a deadline by which this special master is supposed to report to judge cannon, and then he goes to her, and she gives event if realize she wants, and decide whether or not she agrees with the special master. from there, donald trump can appeal to the extra circuit, and from the loser kinetic peel that the u.s.. it's also true about hillary lane's point about the stay. so the state could be decided on these hundred documents and could be decided by the course of the week. but i expect the loser of that litigation shelters are going to the united states supreme court.
it's on an emergency basis,, so it can be done pretty quickly, i do you think within two weeks we will have resolution of the hundred documents. as as a special master as a whole, though, we are talking about a car -- has ever gone in this. but he somehow has managed to get it from judge cannon, it's a recipe for delay, that's why would the government's done here is so smart, by surgically taking out these hundred documents and saying let's decide that on an emergency basis, as not-so-as rest of the ruling, as we can talk about that later time. what do you think about that? >> sort of. i it's true that an emergency state can go very quickly. of course the loser can. >> can but doesn't necessarily have to go. >> yes, but i really think the state. there's nothing meritorious about it. it's straightforward. i don't see the court taking it. but the point meal was just
raising, which is the process of executive privilege review? let's review under completely unsettled law. and you can see that working its way up amorphous lee, finally to the supreme court. now the court really ought to not review it because of things said before it and you put them together at, it's not meritorious. but a couple of justices including kavanaugh. has indicated some interest in the issue so yes, there is a state of affairs where that issue goes up, and then we are talking a year. but the state itself, and the ability to get to work and to assess the damage and to go forward on a criminal investigation. that really ought to be done if the 11th circuit is responsible, within a few weeks. >> gentlemen, this is really important and complicated stuff. i really appreciate all of you joining us tonight. especially the jacket and tie
on a friday night. and let me be clear, you turned it out tonight! bravo to you! >> student i. it will get me in trouble. so i dressed up in an hindu version. >> he used to wear a taco down to his knees. >> well, on this friday night, i absolutely appreciate it. neil kathy all, harry lippman, neil savidge. thank you all very much. when we come back, democrats are running hard after a big week when republicans introduced a national abortion ban and have yet to come up with a plan on inflation. they're here with a rare view from the center of american product takes. and later, zelenskyy's armed forces scored a big victory in ukraine. and then he went to the frontline! the message that sent to russia's ahead with zelenskyy's former press secretary. the 11th hour just getting underway, on big news friday night! friday night!
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>> it has been a very busy week of important headlines, so let's take a look. on tuesday, we got a hotter than expected inflation report. just hours before president biden held a celebration of that inflation reduction act that very same day, lindsey graham introduced a bill for a 15-week abortion ban. next day, florida governor ron desantis sends nearly 15 migrants to martha's vineyard. and then gas companies and unions are reaching a tentative deal to avoid a strike. and then president biden was pushing a white house summit to combat hate based violence. two centuries when theories represent the conch section of voters in the middle. -- she also ran for said it in kentucky and then with the leader mitch mcconnell and the former republican and former member of congress. he is now chairman of the circuit merrick and movement and is an msnbc political contributor.
a lot happen this week but out of everything we went through. what do you think the people on the ground in kentucky, a very red straight, care most about? >> i think long term, what the people care in the most about is that we have joe biden in office and the democrats in office who are actually trying to get things done for everyday people. these are the things, stephanie, that happened here, that we just passed in the inflation reduction act. these are the things that i ran on that were very popular here in kentucky for example, having medicare finally negotiate, or be able to negotiate the drug crisis. extending the formidable care act. to keep key prices down for seniors. drug prices, that sort of thing. and, you know, look. clean energy? these are the types of things that people care about.
jobs and these are going to be good jobs. so i think in the long run, look, a lot of people don't like both parties. they don't like either party. but when they do the vote, they are going to see those swing voters. and say hey, democrats are actually getting things done in office. i think that is really important. >> lindsey graham who served with you, he proposed a nationwide 15-week abortion ban. but by a 2 to 1 margin, americans, not just democrats, americans disapprove on the overturning of roe. what do you think is going on here? >> well, i think that lindsey graham is throwing spaghetti at the while trying to be relevant in a post trump world. to be honest. politically. but his suggestion is that republicans are flailing in a post dobbs world. so he is trying to set a marker out there to get a messaging point. the problem is it's a bad messaging point.
going into november. look at where we were just three months ago, democrats were facing a lot of headwinds. republicans were feeling very good about november. but now you have the dobbs decision that changes roe v. wade. and reproductive rights in america. you have donald trump back on the scene. and you have terrible senate candidates. and what lindsey graham did was throw a spotlight on that to be honest. and so, i think lindsey graham is a very erratic politician. always seeking the lawn light. that's what we saw from this. you saw this from mitch mcconnell. he said we don't really want to talk about this, because this does not help republicans right now. >> and that's what i want a need to understand, you ran against mitch mcconnell. he is not an erratic republican. in theory, overturning roe versus wade should have been a crowning achievement for republicans. that grant comes out with his proposal, and mitch mcconnell says i'm not down with that? help us understand that calculation? >> here is the thing. and a lot of people are talking
about the fact that oh, republicans are divided on the issues. look, republicans aren't really divided on the issue. what they're divided about is whether they talk about the issue or not. and so, the republicans in power. they all really want what lindsey graham is proposing. they want this extreme right wing ban on abortion nationwide. they're just basically trying not to talk about it because they know that it is wildly unpopular. and that is what you see in mitch mcconnell. i mean, this business of the republicans are all about the ideology, that we should leave it to the states. or keep it to the federal government. that ideology is gone in the age of trump. they don't really care about that stuff. they care about the right-wing agenda and how to push it through. and that's what this is all about. >> but, do they really care about any ideology? or do they care about getting
elected? and why would you double, triple, quadruple down on something that is so unpopular? >> it is the axiom of the dog that caught the car. republicans have marshaled their alliance with the pro-life community for political circumstances. and then they won on the issue. and realize that it's not in support the american majority. so that is one of the key regions. honestly, stephanie, we're seeing a vote for democrats for three, four, five, even six points in a lot of key races. and i think this november is ultimately the wind behind democrats back right now. is on the post jobs roe versus wade abortion issue. and again, what lindsey graham did, the step right in the middle of it. and bring all competitive republican candidates in the middle of an issue that does not help them going into november. >> i mean, what i want to understand is where mitch mcconnell stands. because mitch mcconnell is no friend of donald trump. is this republican party
becoming the maga party versus mcconnell party? and how well people in kentucky field about him? because there are a lot of trump supporters in the state. >> well i think it's absolutely raucous about that. but i think mitch mcconnell cares about mitch mcconnell. he cares about power. and he will do anything that he can to remember in power and get back the majority in the senate. so he's trying to basically tow the line herebetweethe make america great again extremists, and the way that he probably wishes the republican party would go. the problem is that when you don't stand up to these extrem that puts our country in peril. and that is what mitch mcconnell has done from the very beginning. and in my opinion, it's really been to the detriment of not only the country, but certainly
of kentucky. >> mitch mcconnell knows exactly where he wants the republican party to be, in line right behind him. amy mcgrath, -- , thinks for joining us tonight. i really appreciate it. when we come back. we will speak to the ukrainian president's former press secretary about the brave move for president zelenskyy going to the front lines and what they need now from the united states. is there any hope for an end to the war? when the 11th hour continues! 11th hour continues ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ "shake your thang" by salt n pepa
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ukrainian forces recaptured key areas, and as they do the cities reveal the horrors of russia's war a mass grave with more than 400 bodies was discovered near the city of izium, ukraine says some of those bodies show sign of torture. nbc's erin mclaughlin has more. >> in the newly-liberated town of izium ukraine the dead are hoisted out of shallow hastily dug graves. more than 400 bodies most of them civilians including children. this officials saying there are many children. adding they are bodies with hands tied behind their backs and there's fear that might have been hundreds more killed during the russian occupation of this town, of almost 50,000. much of his zoom is now in ruins from the fighting. the local church that double
dose a shelter that russian troops ransacked. but now at least liberated. after the ukrainians mounted a surprise counteroffensive. >> describe for me the moment when you realized that the russians were gone. >> when we saw the ukrainian armed forces it was a very emotional, touching moment he said. >> i could see it still moving you to tears. >> he said it had the smell of freedom. >> with us tonight, mandel -- the former press secretary to president zelenskyy the author of the new book the fight of our lives ukraine's path battle for democracy and what it means for the world. thank so much for joining, us in your book you write about the atrocities and pay places like bucha mario pole and others another city to add to the list. what was your reaction when you learned about this. 400 bodies, maybe more?
>> stephanie you know my heart is bleeding as a free ukrainian, and i i am sure that all ukrainians now are in a big sorrow. the world has been repeating for 80 years number you can but what we see right now is actually the horror from the -- of holocaust of artificial famines. i'm explaining in my book how the war started, how we did not expect it but how we were prepared. of course we want to regain our pet territories back. but this experience that we're passing, even more scary to know what happened when we occupy the territories. >> ukraine is taking back territory from russia. is this a sign of the war shifting? >> we heard from president
zelenskyy that this is a very important step. the ukrainian army around to the whole world that we can regain a territories back and this is very important. on the other hand we understand that the war is not finished and that russia continues -- destroyed if a, structure killing people and we cannot stop and that's why we are asking our partners to be unified and to stand with ukraine, until we finish this terrible war, and hold russia accountable. >> what does not look like? holding russia accountable? >> you know first of all russia needs to pay for all this destruction and for atrocities that russia has been doing. but also what ukraine wants as a civilized country --
about all those people that were ordering the troops russian troops to come to ukraine and to do all these atrocities and killings and murders. all these terrible things to ukrainians and all those things that we're doing this to be on the tribunal and actually to be held accountable for the war crimes because everything that is happening right now is nothing less than war crimes to ukraine. >> when we are showing the images of izzy m. and said the man who said it smells like a liberation they feel a sense of hope how do you rebuild from there where to go? that's a very difficult question, and we know that many cities have been destroyed from 90%, and many people who fled the country and lost their homes, they don't have anywhere to return so of course it will take enormous energy effort and resources to rebuild again but what i know is that there is
1.2 million ukrainians who still stay in occupied territories. and i myself am a from a region in southern ukraine that is under occupation right now. in my book the fight of our lives, i'm telling how russians were occupying it. and there is a small village which is caught alexandra and my grandparents used to live there. so during my first three years of life i made my first steps and said my first words there. and there's no more of that village anymore, and my granny with wounded like she was spending weeks in the basement, just hearing russian mid selves and shelling destroying her home her garden, and actually all her life. she is in kyiv right now in recovery but i know the people in occupation there in pain every day the ukrainian army comes, and returns the territories. back because freedom for ukrainians is the fundamental value, and i'm sure every
american will understand what it is. >> and we are praying for, them thank you for joining, us thanks for this book, thank you for insight into what is happening. eva mandel, we appreciate you joining us. >> thank you for having me. >> thank you. the fight of our lives it is out now. when we come back, poor unfortunate souls, of the internet, are bashing disney's pick for the little mermaid because of the color of her skin. but it is not dimming the excitement and joy for young black girls all over the world. and at the end of the sole, show we will tell you the secret to happiness. better stand for that i'm not kidding you it's science, when the 11th hour continues. hour continues. who's on it with jardiance? we're managing type 2 diabetes and heart risk. we're hittin' the trails between meetings. and putting the brakes on fried foods. jardiance is a once-daily pill that...not only lowers a1c,
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wanted to see was me and the media. somebody sat like me, black like me, beautiful like me. [applause] [applause] if i could go back and tell little lizzo, it's gonna have to be you! >> bravo to the brilliant, lizzo. and there was another important win for representation. this saturday, as they dropped the first trailer for the live action little mermaid remake. with actress hollyberry
appearing as aerial. thousands of little black holes across the country reacted to disney princess who looked like them. >> i think she's black! >> she's black! >> she's black! >> she's black! >> she's black! yes, yes, yes. >> are you kidding me? aerial's black? >> [inaudible] she is brown like me! >> she's brown like you! >> it's like me!
she's like me! >> that right there is the kind of euphoria and joy that every child deserves. puppet despite all of that excitement, still some internet trolls are furious about this new movie. forbes characterize that backlash as transparently racist. it obviously is. joining us now to discuss, new york times bestselling author. tracey battiste. she wrote a children's book called mermaid and pirate. tracey, the response we're seeing from black girls across the world is amazing. and it's not just about joy, how important is this representation? >> representation is important because people are important. and we want to see all kinds of people in all kinds of roles. doing all kinds of stunts. and i think this is why people are so upset. they are not used to it. we have not had it. and they're surprised? well surprise!
where here. we exist. we exist in the sea, we exist on land. we exist everywhere. and it is, all of the kids, you see their faces. they're so excited. because they did not realize that this was missing. and it's not just missing for them. it's missing for everybody. and it's so important because then we all get to see what we have been missing all this time. >> but many people look at this and do not realize actually the history. with a specific movie, mermaids. they think disney did a good thing. they chose one of their movies, they're doing a remake. they're going to have a black one. it wasn't just random, was it? there's history here. >> there is. and what disney is doing is actually, they're not really digging into the history of black mermaids that much. they really have taken the story and giving it to this
black actress, but, it would be really interesting for them to go into the existing black mermaid stories. >> you've written about this. he wrote in 2019, a whole piece. mermaids have always been black. tell us about that. >> so, i was born in trinidad and tobago. and growing up in the caribbean, we always had these creatures called jumpy's. and one of them is called mama of the water. and she comes directly from west africa, which also means moderate of the water. and she was caribbean, and enslaved people were brought into the caribbean and to the americans. but west africa, in south africa, all over the african continent has had mermaid stories for millennia. there are cave drawings of mermaids in south africa. the dove on people of molly, as
far as the fair is concerned. the very first creatures on earth were mermaids. >> then why are people, why is all of this back rush? why are people so upset? >> because they do not know, they don't know that this exists and that this has existed for such a long time. because of the stories that we have. the stories that are in the media have been whitewashed. we have had access really only to a very small percentage of the world's stories. and now that is starting to open up. and people are shocked. because they are not used to it. but it's okay, they'll get used to it. >> but what's amazing, a movie like this. or other movies and films that you are seeing backlash. these aren't even real historical figures, we're saying oh this isn't an accurate representation, but these are fantasies! these are fictional characters,
can't they be anything? >> they can, they can be anything but i also think that for a very long time, the media has really only portrayed one type of person and that has been a really difficult thing for people. >> a white house amal. a damsel in distress. with long blond flowing hair? >> but also, even just male and female representation and stories. women are the majority of the earth's population. but there are a lot more men in media. so we're not getting an accurate representation. and what it is doing is, it is stunting everybody's imaginations. so they can even imagine that this could exist when it is a straight-up fantasy. >> well guess what? tonight, you know what they're getting. at 11:00 at night? a black woman, and a white woman, telling you the news! tracey, good to me, it's good
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lives as they unfold through time? what if we could study people from the time that they were teenagers, all the way into old age? to see what really could keep people happy and healthy? we did that. >> the last thing we before we go tonight for the week! the happiness study. that right there was psychiatrist, robert, he wants the longest scientific study of happiness that is ever been conducted. it began in 1938. the harvard study of the adult development.
it has followed people from their teenage years into the old old age. they recently sat down with wilding her to see what he sees as the four secrets to happiness. number one, happy people nurture good relationships. we all know that people who are the smartest people on the planet, but can't find their way out of a paper bag when it comes to human relationships. those people might be outwardly successful, but not particularly fulfilled. number two, happy people are not self absorbed. especially at the end of their lives. people didn't mention their awards they won, or the money they made. they said i raised healthy kids, i had a good marriage, i mentor people at work. number three, happy people avoid toxic tribalism. he says it is easier to see social life as a supersize them. bad versus good. cool kids versus the nerds. instead, he suggests that we make an effort to see other people and ourselves as
individuals. number four, happy people don't worry about what other people think. i hope my teenagers are watching. according to wall there, many people's biggest regret was carrying too much about what other people think. so what's his advice? love what you love. you can be quiet about it if it's not the flavor of the month right now, but don't let things you love go. so you heard it there. this weekend, get out there. invest times with your friends, your family. be yourself, and love whatever you love! and who knows? it just might be the key to a happy life. and on that note, i wish you all a very very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news. thanks for staying up late with us. i will see you on monday night! see you on monday night negative seven degrees celsius.