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tv   The Reid Out  MSNBC  September 20, 2022 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT

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thought was nuts. i said are you out of your f'ing mind? now i'm going to give you the best free legal advice you're ever getting in your life. get a great f'ing criminal defense lawyer. you're going to need it. >> remember former white house attorney eric hirschmann from the january 6th hearings? here's a guy who seemed to speak his mind in no uncertain terms. well, now there's new reporting that he warned trump that he could be in big trouble if he kept those classified documents. >> after today's special master hearing, why the trump team is almost certainly regretting the choice of judge raymond dearie. also tonight, how is this playing back home, ron desantis? spending florida taxpayer dollars to fly texas migrants to places like massachusetts? by the way, the world as we know it was built by migration. in the united states was built by migration. ambassador linda thomas greenfield joins me on that and the president's big speech to the u.n. general assembly tomorrow. >> but we begin tonight in a
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brooklyn courtroom where newly appointed special master judge raymond dearie is showing what it means when one actually applies the law while wearing the robe. in the first hearing with the doj and the trump legal team over the review of those classified documents that the fbi seized from mar-a-lago, the trump nominated special master's message to trump's lawyers was clear. and i quote, you can't have your cake and eat it too. that came following sharp questions from judge dearie over what role they expected him to play in verifying the classification of the documents given this is controlled by the executive branch, not the judicial branch. perhaps it's why dearie directly asked trump's team to declare what if any of the classified documents trump declassified before leaving the white house. trump has repeatedly said he declassified all of them, but that has not shown up in any of the filings from his legal team. today his lawyers reiterated what they wrote in their filing
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last night, that trump should not be forced to fully and specifically disclose a defense to the merits of any subsequent indictment without such a requirement being evident in the district court's order. as "the washington post" reports, that is a remarkable statement that acknowledges at least the possibility that the former president his aides could be criminally charged. dearie not only also indicated he would not be releasing them to trump's lawyers to review as they requested, but that he may even be able to resolve this without seeing the classified documents himself. now, let's not forget donald trump is reaping what he sowed because it was trump who requested a special master to review these documents in the first place. he even went shopping for a sympathetic judge that he nominated to make it happen. presumably all of it was to delay the fbi investigation into his gross mishandling of classified documents which he repeatedly failed to hand back to the government. the very same government that
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has indicated he might still have even more classified documents. for trump, the one fact that probably is eating away at him right now more than anything else is that judge cannon ruled that trump is the one who has to pay the bill for the special master. joining me now is paul butler, msnbc legal analyst and former federal prosecutor and hugo lowell, congressional reporter for the guardian. paul, i'm going to start with you. give me your read on this judge, judge dearie, who seems to be saying to the trump lawyers, look, the government said these things are classified. you haven't presented me any evidence they're not. i'm going with the government. >> you know, it was always weird that trump had selected judge dearie to be the special master because judge dearie has a reputation for integrity and playing by the book. and those aren't things trump seems to typically look for in his lawyers. judge dearie does have a reputation also as being kind of
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slow to decide cases, and maybe that's what was attractive to trump's team. but today, he said there's a new sheriff in town. compared to judge cannon, and he is being very strict with regard to deadlines. it's well known that trump's procedure, his strategy in legal cases when he may lose on the merits is try to delay things for as long as possible. and the judge isn't having that. today he said october 7th is the date where the lawyers should let me know what documents they believe are privileged. make those arguments, and i'll decide the case after that. >> and i wondered, hugo, just from your reporting, what's going on in trump world. you have eric hirschmann coming forward and, you know, it's now public per this "new york times" reporting that he told trump, you can't keep these documents.
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and tried to impress upon him the seriousness of the issue and the potential for investigations and legal exposure if he did not return the documents, particularly any classified material. that is proof at least in terms of this reporting that trump knew he shouldn't have them, that at least he was being told by a lawyer he shouldn't have them. i wonder how much they're freaking out between that and the fact this judge that they wanted, that they nominated seems to be playing it down the middle. >> yeah, look, i think the fact that eric hirschmann told trump in no uncertain terms that he couldn't have these documents is really significant. we come back to the same questions that we had with the january 6th committee. willful blindness, can trump really claim he didn't know he couldn't take these documents down with him to mar-a-lago? of course not. and especially not when your own white house lawyers are telling you that that is not okay and that you might be subject to a potential indictment if you do that. internally, they're not that concerned about that because they think hirschmann is a bit of a two-bit lawyer, that's what
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they think, whether that's true, that's uncertain, but the one thing that they did get pressed on with the special master today, which did upend them is the fact that judge dearie asked them to make a decision either way on whether trump actually declassified these documents. they were not expecting judge dearie to ask for this. they thought it would be like judge cannon, really straightforward, we can just roll our way through this, and the fact that they were put on the spot, i think, came as a bit of a shock. >> and let's go back to hirschmann for a second, paul butler. is it, you know, they can say whatever they want about him. he defended trump in his first impeachment. they thought he was a good lawyer when he was on their side. this is a guy who was admitting that trump knew that there could be legal liability if he took these documents home. is that potentially a legal problem for him? >> it's totally a legal issue for donald trump because the issue with him is always his intent. did he have criminal intent? did he know that what he was
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doing was wrong? and with regard to these documents, there's so much evidence including the fact that he was requested to turn over these documents very politely first by the national archives and then there was the grand jury subpoena, which he still didn't hand over all of the documents. so finally, they had touse the search warrant. all of that, plus this new evidence from hirschmann, suggests that trump willfully disobeyed the law, and of course, he still hasn't answered the central questions about what in the world he did with these classified documents and what in the world was he planning to do with these classified documents. and importantly, judge dearie seems to understand the national security implications in a different way than judge cannon did. >> and hugo, let me really quickly play, these are some of the excuses they have used over the course of time about what
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they had and what they claimed they had. >> if you look at nara and the things going on with the leaking and the document probably planting. you look at planting and look at getting rid of. >> remember this, remember this. everything was declassified, number one. >> my father always kept clippings, press clippings. he would have newspaper articles, pictures, notes from us. >> hugo, in court today, did his lawyers make any of those arguments that, you know, these are just clippings, newspaper articles, everything was declassified? was any of that -- were any of those paints made by trump's actual lawyers in court? >> no, and they don't do that in court filings. that's indicative. you don't want to say something wrong in court, something that turns out not to be true because there are penalties for doing that in federal court. i will say one really interesting point i noticed while i was watching today's
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proceedings in brooklyn, was one of the president's top lawyers in this case asked judge dearie about potentially giving his co-counsel security clearances. why would you need a security clearance if all of these documents are already declassified. any member of the public can see them, so the fact he raised that to me suggested at least some of these documents clearly are not declassified. >> and so paul, what do you expect, just reading the tea leaves and listening to what at least appears the special master judge dearie, where he seems to be going with this, that he wants to work quickly, wants to get it done by october, that he's not going to drag it out the way the trump lawyers wanted. they also have this appeal at the 11th circuit. how do you see this going? because it definitely doesn't feel like it's going trump's way. >> yeah, so there's no evidence that trump ever declassified these documents. that's only disputed by donald trump and people on fox news. and of course, judge cannon, who still is overseeing the special
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master. the special master dearie just makes a recommendation to judge cannon, but it's still her call. and joy, on social media, trump has claimed that he declassified the documents. but as hugh said, he's never made that representation in court where lawyers get in trouble for saying things that aren't true. so instead, trump's lawyers are making this cutesy move where they say trump had the authority to declassify the documents but they're not saying in court whether he actually did, and judge dearie, he just antehaving it. he told trump's lawyers unless you show me the proof that trump declassified the materials, i'm going to proceed on the assumption that documents marked top secret are actually classified. and that should mean that at some point sooner rather than later, doj will get these 100 documents which they say are vital to the government and to the people's national security.
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>> and let me just have you clarify one more time, paul. i know we made this point on the show before. even the unclassified documents, after a president leaves office, who owns the contents, the documents produced by the president of the united states? can a president simply legally take them home? even the unclassified things. >> joy, you and i have as much claim to those documents that were found at mar-a-lago as donald trump. and we have that claim because we are citizens of the united states. under the presidential records act, whether documents are classified or not, if they are part of the president's work, they belong to the national archives. he doesn't get to take those home when he leaves office. >> and last question to you, hugo. what is the confidence level now? they definitely had confidence in judge cannon. there was that really sort of intriguing nugget in the
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reporting that said don't worry, they told hirschmann, just go ahead and represent that these things had -- these things were subject to privilege. we have a judge that's going to rule in our favor. is there any reporting that kind of indicates who they meant by that? or is that just an intriguing nugget that we're going to have to just enjoy and live with until somebody comes forward? >> i think we're going to have to see where it goes. i will say tonight at least, trump's legal team and kind of advisers around the former president, people i have spoken to at least, are pretty confident about where this all ends up. i'll tell you why. after this whole special master process is done and judge dearie makes a determination either way about the 11,000 documents, it all goes back to judge cannon, who has the final say on all this. if trump's lawyers disagree with judge cannon, or judge dearie's recommendations, they have scope to appeal. they have envisioned dragging this out all the way down to the end of the year if they can.
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and i think that's one point that we should just mention because like all of the special master stuff with trump is a side show. it's just a vehicle they want to use to delay this further. >> we'll see what happens whether the doj decides to escalate things further. paul and hugo, thank you both very much. >> up next, the florida governor's traveling cruelty show continues. flying migrant men, women, and children who have nothing to do with his state to points unknown. "the reidout" continues after this. [acoustic soul music throughout] [acoustic soul music throughout] [acoustic soul music throughout] [acoustic soul music throughout] [acoustic soul music throughout]
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the florida governor's inhumane political theater continues with ron desantis playing politics with human lives and threatening to lure more vulnerable people to various cities under false pretenses. this comes amid initial reports that another flight of migrants was being sent to president biden's home state of delaware. president biden was asked about the alleged plan earlier today. >> what's on my watch now is venezuela, cuba, and nicaragua. and the ability to send them back to those states is not rational. you can send them back and have them working with mexico and other countries to see if we can stop the flow, but that's the difference. thank you. >> do you have any comment or response? >> we have a beautiful
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shoreline. >> in the past hour, a plane believes to be carrying migrants landed in new jersey but only contained crew members. public records, however, still show florida is up to something, paying $950,000 to the same company that flew migrants to martha's vineyard last week. this of course is played with florida taxpayer dollars. something desantis' democratic opponent condemned in a tweet saying ron desantis thinks using millions in taxpayer dollars to use a state sponsored human trafficking scheme is a good way to use floridians' money. today, migrants flown to martha's vineyard filed a lawsuit against desantis and other florida officials in court. the lawsuit alleged they carried out a premeditated fraudulent scheme for the sole purchase of advancing their political interests. this comes one day after a texas sheriff opened a criminal
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investigation into desantis' scheme. meaning both republican front runners for 2024 are now under investigation. junior maga wants you do know he's exactly, exactly like trump. joining me now is democratic pollster and strategist fur naund amaundy and judd. i want to start with you. you had a lot of really good reporting on this, including you were the first person to get ahold of this brochure. talk about what was in this brochure, because it is what seems to be the smoking gun in the idea that we have heard from reporters who have been on this show and reporters who have talked to the miami herald and other papers, that these migrants were made pretty extravagant promises when they got on the plane. >> something that is important to keep in mind is these migrants were not in the united states illegally. they came over the border without documentation, but they surrendered. and they're seeking asylum and are now able to remain legally
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in the united states. so the question is, did they board these planes voluntarily? and what a lot of the migrants were saying is we were made all sorts of promises by the people who were hired by desantis of what we would get when we land on this plane. we would get money, housing, assistance with job training. and then desantis was denying it. and what this brochure shows is that they were promised a whole laundry list of benefits, if they were to board this flight. these were the promises made to try to get people onto the flight. and this is a brochure that's listing benefits that are available to an entirely different category of refugees. they do not qualify for any of these benefits or it really is documentary proof, not just desantis says one thing, the folks who are on the plane say
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another thing. we may never know the truth. we know the truth because it's written down here on paper, and here's what these migrants were told falsely that they would receive upon landing. >> and just to stay with you for a moment. do you have any idea why the plane that took off again today and this company that's getting a lot of florida taxpayer dollars to do this, that's going to texas and taking people, was empty today when it landed in new jersey? >> we don't know. we know that it was scheduled to land at a small airport very close to biden's vacation home in rehoboth beach, delaware. one reason might be the criminal investigation that you referenced in your introduction. now that we know the planes, we know the tail numbers, and now that authorities do, it's possible that law enforcement is tracking this activity and may have disrupted this latest plot.
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that's just speculation. we don't know, but we do know that there were definitely plans to do it and another 900,000 plus dollars paid to the same company that initially got $600,000 that did the initial round of flights. we knew there were plans to continue this, to do more. desantis himself said there were going to be more. it looked like it was going to happen in delaware today, but that didn't end up occurring. >> let me bring you in here. i'm fascinated to know what the chatter is inside florida. state senator chevron jones tweeted you can't go any lower than this. ron desantis didn't see those individuals as people. he sees them as things in his political point. florida is the laughingstock of the nation once again for the wrong reasons. this is unusual given what i know florida politics. a south florida radio host on spanish language radio said this, truly this is criminal. they're using human beings to advance political points of view. condemned him and compared
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desantis to fidel castro. what are people saying inside the state about this scheme? >> well, joy, i think the same that are paying attention to what's going on are aghast at this. this is beyond an act of cruelty and certainly not a political stunt. anyone who calls this a political stunt doesn't understand what's happening. this is an act of evil. when you pull apart this sociopathic elements, the moral repug nns judd makes the point, is this a criminal act? because if it is a criminal act, joy, the voters of florida need to know if the current sitting governor who is seeking re-election in less than a month and a half committed crimes in the name of the state of florida using taxpayer money. so if there are any prosecutors watching that are as repulsed by
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this and the trafficking of children with this desantis as coyote engagement, they need to stand up. it shouldn't just be the sheriff of san antonio. it's those watching and understand the law, and by all accounts this was done under false pretenses. by all accounts, a crime was committed. they don't have to commit any more crimes. enough has been done. if he did commit a crime, the voters need to know that before they cast their ballots in a month's time. >> you know, and let me play a former prosecutor, glen kirshner was on the show the other day, and he made that point. here is glen kirshner and a new word we learned, inveiglement. >> i would call it kidnapping by inveiglement. now, inveiglement is a word we don't often hear, but it is a federal crime, fancy word. what does it mean? it means to lure, to lead astray, or to entice by false pretenses or deceitful means.
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>> between the civil suit and the potential for criminal liability as you just mentioned, how do you envision that impacting the governor's race if at all? as you said, voters need to know, and they seem to know some of this. >> that's the question. look, i'm not a lawyer. i don't think judd is a lawyer. you're not a lawyer, but we know bad stuff when we see it. and kidnapping of human beings and the utilizing of human beings for evil purposes, as political props, i think is in violation not just of our american spirit but of american laws. as judd said, these migrants did not come here illegally. they're following a legal process. the same legal process, by the way, joy, that my parents and grandparents and countless number of cubans and nicaraguans and venezuelans who came to this country under the promise of seeking sanctuary on these shores through the legal process of seeking asylum salt, which is also the republican policy for the last 60 years until now. >> yep.
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absolutely. and that's the challenge. there are a lot of venezuelans and cubans and folks who came and did that who are going to recognize themselves in these people who did as you said break no laws. don't take furnand off the screen for a moment because i have to do this. we hate to do this to folks and embarrass them on tv, but is my friend's birthday. so i am going to wish you a very happy birthday, and encourage everyone to go and continue to embarrass fer hp nand. got you. that's why i didn't text you about your birthday, because i wanted to do it on tv. thank you very much. happy birthday. >> thank you. >> and thanks, judd. >> coming up next, president biden will address the u.n. general assembly tomorrow at a time of unprecedented global concerns. so what should we expect? u.s. ambassador to the united nations linda thomas greenfield joins me to discuss that, the migration situation, and more. stay right there.
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prop 27 sends 90% of profits to out-of-state corporations in places like new york and boston. no wonder it's so popular... out there. yeah! i can't believe those idiots are going to fall for this. 90%! hey mark, did you know california is sending us all their money? suckers. -those idiots! [ laughter ] imagine that, a whole state made up of suckers. vote no on 27. it's a terrible deal for california. we win. you lose. global history is replete with stories of people fleeing persecution and seeking a better life. the israelites fleeing egypt. protestants fleeing europe. the irish fleeing british neglect and famine. the great migration of black
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americans from the south. cubans fleeing castro. immigrants have built the world and made it a better place. and that history continues to this day with immigrants fleeing violence, famine, and political instability in central and south america. and ukrainians fleeing targeted terror and ethnic cleansing. some of those heavy topics are top of mind for hundreds of world leaders who are gathering this week for the united nations general assembly. the secretary-general opened the umsembly with a dire warning those leaders may not be ready or willing to tackle big changes. >> divergence between developing country, between north and south, between the rest is becoming more dangerous by the day. it is at the root of your political tensions and lack of trust that poison every area of global cooperation from vaccines to sanctions to trade. international relations seem to be moving towards a g-2 world. now we risk ending up with a
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g-nothing. no cooperation, no dialogue, no collective problem solving. >> also today, former president bill clinton spoke with ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy about one of those key geopolitical conflicts, russian's invasion of a sovereign country. >> some people to like to remain on the sidelines but in this war you cannot remain on the sidelines because we have reoccupation, that russia has waged against us. and you definitely have to take sides. >> joining me now is linda thomas greenfield, u.s. ambassador to the united nations. the culmination of a 34-year foreign service career, her previous posts include u.s. ambassador to liberia and deputy assistant secretary in the bureau of population refugees and migration. ambassador thomas greenfield, thank you for being here. i want to start there. >> delighted.
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>> thank you. i want to start with the situation in ukraine. so russia is threatening to hold these what can only be called sham elections and begin to annex parts of the territory that they have invaded in ukraine. the u.s. has said there will be consequences if they attempt to annex, take chunks of ukraine and annex them. what might those consequences be, do you think? >> look, the russians know what those consequences will be. this is part of their playbook. they have done this before. they did it in 2014, and it was not accepted, and they know it will not be accepted again. they have been isolated in the international community, and this is a desperate action by a country that does not have confidence in itself. we have imposed some very strong sanctions on the russians in the past. i won't preview what future sanctions or future actions might be. but they can be assured that we
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will take action should they move in this direction. >> you know, russia has done everything from attempt to starve ukraine, stealing their grain, disrupting the global food supply, threatening to turn off the gas in europe which probably should be getting off russian natural gas and oil anyway, but they're using these tactics that attempt to terrorize all of europe, not just ukraine, to say nothing of the clear war crimes they have committed throughout ukraine. the united nations as a body still allows them and admits them. they're still in the security council. does it somehow diminish that body for russia to remain and is there a way for them to no longer be a part of the security council? >> you know, russia's actions, their aggression against ukraine has raised concerns, and it has raised issues in confidence about whether the u.n. is fit for purpose today. but we have used the security council.
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we have used the general assembly to isolate russia, to condemn russia, to kick russia off of the human rights council. they are a permanent member of the security council. that is something that we cannot change, but we will not continue to allow them to use that perch to terrorize the world with their actions. so what they can expect will happen this week in the security council is that they will continue to be isolated. it will not be business as usual for them. they will hear from the world. they will hear from the president of the united states at the podium of the general assembly tomorrow. a rebuke of their unprovoked actions against ukraine. >> i want to talk a little bit about russia has accused the u.s. of imperialism and saying our criticisms of their attack on ukraine is an example of that. we're seeing the world kind of move in a direction to quit
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empire. we haveen the barrel of the queen of england and a lot of nations in the commonwealth saying it's time to release ourselves, to free ourselves. are we moving toward a world where these old empires will be defunct and we'll see more liberation and more independence for these smaller countries, these caribbean countries, these african countries that want out? >> certainly, we're seeing that. but what we're seeing russia do is go back to the days of empire. the soviet union, they're trying to reestablish their empire, which is dead. it's gone. and ukraine is not theirs to take. it's not theirs to have elections in. they have attacked a sovereign independent country. and what they are trying to do is re-create their historical empire, and that is not acceptable. and the world has said that to
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them. >> i want to ask you about something happening in our country. you did administer issues of refugees and resettlement in your previous role, and we're now seeing states, governors of states inside the united states using legal asylum seekers as political pawns and shipping them around the country. i wonder, you know, what the world makes of us when we're gathering in new york for the general assembly and sees inside our country, governors doing things like that. >> you know, it's sad and it's unfortunate and it's embarrassing. these are people, as you noted, who have fled persecution in their countries. they have come to the united states with hope and desires, and we're a country of immigrants. we have always welcomed immigrants into this country, and to have them used as political pawns like this is totally unacceptable, and it is something that is not
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representative of what -- of the values that we believe in in this country. >> should we expect president biden to make a statement about that when he addresses the assembly tomorrow? >> i don't know that he will address that in the assembly tomorrow, but he certainly has addressed it to the american people. we saw a press conference that he gave earlier this week in which he expressed his concerns and his horror at what is happening to these people. >> u.n. ambassador linda thomas greenfield, thank you very much. really appreciate you being here. >> thanks. >> coming up next, the new book, lady justice, celebrates women lawyers, judges, and activists who took a stand against some of the trump administration's worst abuses including the ongoing assault on reproductive rights, and she joins me next. , janice will win a speedboat. bingo! i'm moving to the lake... gotta sell the house... ooh! that's a lot of work. ooh! don't worry. skip the hassels and sell directly to opendoor.
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in three seconds, pam will decide... i'm moving closer to the grandkids! wait. i got to sell the house! don't wait, just sell directly to opendoor. easy as pie. piece of cake. whichever. when life's doors open, we'll handle the house. nothing if not completely inconsistent. the same senator graham who said just last month that states should decide abortion rights went on fox news to defend his proposal banning abortion nationwide after 15 weeks of pregnancy. >> this is not a state's rights issue. i don't care what california does on most things. i care here. i am not going to sit on the sidelines in washington, d.c. and tell the pro mf life community washington is closed for business. >> of course, that is completely in line with his habit of
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ignoring previous statements or values when it's politically convenient since he once told republicans in 2016 they would get destroyed and deserve it if they nominated trump, went on to become one of his biggest supplicants, but when it came back to fighting against trumpism, it was women who took center stage, women like sally yates who warned the former president about his compromised national security adviser michael flynn. and stacey abrams who has relentlessly mobilized to register voters in the face of republicans to undermine our democracy. those are two of the extraordinary women featured in dahlia lithwick's new book, lady justice. she writes in a constitutional democracy, enduring power lies in the people who step into the fight and by that yardstick, the women who stood up to defend the constulation in the trump era and who remain in the fight for democracy and equality today held the line. dahlia lithwick joins me now.
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it's great to talk with you. and i'm excited about your new book. i cannot wait to read it. that quote that i just did, you know, it speaks of the heroism of people who fought back against trumpism. but you also tell a story of sort of heartbreak in this era, and some of the things we lost. i want to read another quote. it says this. you talk about the last truly great day for women in 2016. i sometimes think of a supreme court's oral arguments and whole women's health on march 2nd, 2016, as the last truly great day for women and the legal system in america. it has become at least for me a marker of the end of history, the completely in the wrong direction. you're telling a story of female heroism here, but have women -- how much ground have women lost because of trump? >> it's a great question, joy. it's kind of the question. and for me, part of the reason i started at that oral argument is because i was in the room, and i remember thinking, we are so
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close. you know, we have three women on the court. at some point, you know, the women were talking all over each other. chief justice roberts tried to get them under control. ruth bader ginsburg gave him the hand and kept going. it was such a moment of women finally reaching something close to parity. the result in that case was everything that the reproductive rights and justice movement could have wanted. a piercing opinion by justice breyer saying no more pretextual reasons to close clinics. courts get to scrutinize why they're doing what they're doing. then on a dime, everything changes, right? within a few months, donald trump is the nominee. he's naming people to the court that are explicitly promising to overturn roe. and so i think for me, that seam of the law being the thing that frees us and empowers us and gives us dignity and rights and
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equality and within a second being on the other side of the seam where the law is being weaponized against women where the book starts with hellerstedt and ends with dobbs, with women going to jail in alabama, going to jail in oklahoma. for miscarrying, for endangering their pregnancies. so i think that tension for women is so real, joy, of the law as the thing that can both save us and the thing that can really harm us, and i think you're right. it's kind of an elegiac story and a story of great heroism. >> you think about the fact that the notorious rbg passing opens the door for trump to take over the court. you have two of this member of the now basically the minority in all of these decisions on women's liberty and on progress criticizing the court itself. elena kagan saying the court needs to act like a court to keep the americans' faith. warning that the supreme court is damaging its legitimacy. you have this question of
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legitimacy now with women in the position of being the ones arguing for progress. meanwhile, there is one woman on the other side arguing on the other side of that. and there's another woman who is not on the court, she's the wife of a supreme court justice, literally trying to overturn an -- battle among women for what progress means for us. >> i think that is right. i think that you can't fail to miss on one side, amy coney barrett represents, i think it's fair to say, a very theology inflected view of the long constitution, and we certainly saw that in the dobbs case, when her argument was, why not force women to bear children? they can just dump them off at a fire station, no harm, no foul. that's not the women first view or even a medically sound view. i think the other part of what you are saying, the part that
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breaks my heart, here we are, if you days on the first monday of october -- for the first time in history, we'll have c3 women consistently on the descending side of the supermajority, two of them, women of color. what does this say that you have two women of color who are going to spend, as best as i can tell, years and years and years writing the kind of plaintiffs the sense we've heard from justice mayor, the kind of plant is the sense we heard from justice kagan, not just crying out for the legitimacy of the institution or regard for institution, but simply begging that a majority, the supermajority in this case, see women as autonomous, as viable, as worthy of dignity. the optics of death could not be more troubling in a time when the courts approval ratings are in the 30s. >> you write up women like sally eighths, who fought a valiant battle to keep the trump administration for breaking the law, to be honest.
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people like stacey abrams, who literally is running again against the person who was secretary of state, who made it his business to delete as many voters as possible to make it possible for any democrat to defeat him as governor. it definitely feels like a uphill climb. in your book, in writing and reading about this woman, do you come out as hopeful that we could survive as independent beings in a country that is, as you said, so theologically driven? >> i think it's fair to say, joy, that every single woman in this book, at some point, whether a hill or becca heller, who fought the travel ban, goes through this process of saying why am i enthralled to the system that is largely harmed women and people of color throughout history. exist in some sense to do that, and i think at some point, each land at a place that i land as well, which is that the rule of
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law is all we have. the law is imperfect, it's profoundly flawed. it was fluid from the beginning, but in the end, it is the thing that gives us ground, does give us sober fell, does give us roe v. wade. if you believe the argument that the universe pence towards justice, then the system of justice is the only game in town, and we have to work to repair it. >> and to quote someone in ancient american history, if we can keep it. delia left look, we appreciate it. we cannot wait to read the book, it's called lady justice, out today. check it out, get a copy. thank you very much. up next, it's national voter registration day. come on, them, are you registered to vote? you should be. get all your friends of family to register to vote. we will help you after this. er this. live in darkness and sha me. they're shunned, outcast, living in pain. you can reach out and change the life
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♪♪ here goes nothing. hey greg. um...hello? it's me, your heart! really? yes! recording an ekg in 30 seconds. tada! wow that was fast! good news, pal. i'm not detecting any of the six most common arrhythmias. what next? let's get some fresh air. been cooped up for too long. in our democracy, your vote is yeah... ♪♪ get kardia mobile card at kardia.com or amazon.
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one of your most powerful tools driving change, so given that today is national voter registration day, please make sure that you each are registered to vote. there's a website, vote.gov, because there is an important election happening in 49 days. your vote is your voice, and we need your voice. >> yes, says the vice president, today is national registration voter day. ahead of an extremely important midterm election, when that could decide our future of democracy.
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as we saw in an overwhelming vote in favor of abortion rights in kansas, your vote does make a difference. today, activists across the country are pushing the importance of voter registration, including these organizers in milwaukee. >> we really need to stand up, take notice, make sure that we are heard and make sure that our voices are heard. >> make sure everyone you know votes. >> please register to vote and then november 8th is an important day. please play on the counter. have a plan, please vote. >> just as important as their registration isha up to vote and making sure that you vote the entire ballot, governor, secretary of state, school bird, everything. your secretary of state vote to decide whether the next election is run fairly or if election fraud it's become the norm. your vote for school board could make the difference between what they're your children are taught real history with diverse perspectives or harmful
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whitewashed version predicated on fear and lies. and if you're not exactly sure where to start, nbc has a website for you, called plan your vote, with a state by state guide to voter registration deadlines, voting rules, mail-in and in-person voting. it set nbcnews.com/planyourvote statue plan your vote. very importantly, it's available both in english and spanish, so you had no excuse. do it. that's tonight's read out. all in with chris hayes that's right now. right no w. tonight on all in -- >> we may be able to decide all this without seeing declassified documents. >> the first special master hearing not looking good for the disgraced ex president. tonight, trump's absurd argument for keeping classified documents and just where he was getting his legal advice. >> as far as i am concerned, trump should get every single record i took back, not just his passports. >> and the lawsuit and criminal

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