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tv   Alex Wagner Tonight  MSNBC  September 20, 2022 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT

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>> the general election is right around the corner. >> if you have voting questions, we have voting answers. head to nbc news that comes last plan your vote -- >> early voting dates, vote by mail information and so much more. >> because some of the rules have changed in 2020. >> now is the time to start planning for you november vote. >> what is the state of the united states? >> that is up to you. >> on your mark -- >> get set -- >> plan your vote. >> -- >> that is nbc news that comes lash plan your vote. and on that vote note, i wish you all a very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late with us. i will see you at the end of tomorrow. tomorrow >> as we all know, very well,
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one of trump's loudest defenses following the -- has been a chest pounding declaration that he -- it doesn't matter that they wound up there. he said that, quote, everything was declassified. but so far, that argument has been noticeably absent from any declaration by trump's lawyers in court. this morning, in a legal filing, trump's attorneys once again failed to say that trump declassified any documents. furthermore, they are insisting that actually these documents might not in fact be classified to begin with. essentially, trump's team is saying, don't trust the doj, because who knows if these papers are really classified. over and over again in their 40 page filing the 100 classified documents identified by the doj, the justice department, or referred to by trump's legal team as, quote, purportedly classified. yes, that's classified in quotes. a little over two hours after that sharply worded filing, trump's attorneys in the justice
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department appeared in federal court in brooklyn this afternoon for their first conference with the newly appointed trump picked special master, and judge raymond dearie. he is a senior judge in the eastern district of new york. so, brooklyn is his turf. two hours after trump's team cast doubt on the government's assertion that these documents are classified, again, purportedly classified, with air quotes. yes, like this very clearly marked documents you see right now on your screen. purportedly classified. the special master, again, and handpicked by trump, essentially said, i'm inclined to think that they are indeed classified. before i read this quote, quick law school lesson here. you should know that prima facie evidence means on the face of it. here is judge dearie on these documents, speaking to trump attorneys. the government, of course, once wants the classified documents off the table for the moment at least. and i understand that. we're dealing with presumably highly sensitive information. if i'm going to verify the
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classification, what am i looking at? is there a claim that the document is classified that should not of how been classified? is that in play before me as a special master? is there a claim that something was labeled purposefully classified that isn't? what exactly is the nature of it? the reason i ask is if the government essentially gives me prima fascist evidence that these are classified documents, and you, team trump, decide for whatever reason not to advance any claims of classification, which i understand is your prerogative, i'm left with the prima fascie case of -- and as far as i'm concerned, that's the end of it. to be clear, judge dearie, the special master, who trump side advocated for basically told -- the government is said that these documents are classified and unless you somehow prove otherwise, quote, that is it. or in other words, layman's terms put up or shut up.
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even through this singer, at team trump later, during the roughly 45 minutes conference, quote, i guess my view of it is, you can't have your cake and eat it? trump's attorney jim trusty wrote, sure, understood. obviously, the court is going to want evidence, not just pure argument. yeah, you could say that again. trump's attorney then pressed the judge on obtaining the proper security clearance, so team trump can view these -- let us say that that did not go so well. who is trump attorney jim trusty again. we would just appreciate some help from the court pushing that along, what we might be able to get people cleared in a way we're doesn't slow anything down and doesn't necessarily hamstring us if we review these documents. special master dearie responded, quote, let's not belittled the fact that we are dealing with, at least potentially, legitimately classified information. theory continued. the government has a very strong obligation, as all of us, to see to it that i had information doesn't get in the
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wrong hands. it is not just a matter, it seems to me, of being clear. it is a matter of need to know. and if you need to know, he will know. that is the way i see it. . if you need to know, you will know. the subtext there seems to be, i'm not really sure team trump needs to know right now. special master dearie also made an interesting announcement towards the end of the conference concerned of those cost by documents. he said, quote, if i can make my judgments without, i don't want to see the material. it's presumably sensitive material. if i can make my recommendation to judge cannon, right or wrong, without exposing myself or you to that material, i will do it. special master diary today went out of his way here to say that he does not want to see the classified material and will do his best to make his recommendations without viewing it. at another point in the hearing, jury asked the justice department lawyers what they would do -- in the 11th circuit court of
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appeal fails. the doj returnee replied that the department would consider its appellate options or, in other words, take it to the supreme court. joining us now is josh goldstein, senior if -- thanks for being here. >> hey, alex, -- >> what was it like to be in that courtroom. over the reporting, some -limited -- did it feel like judge dearie was issuing brush back to the trump legal team? it sounds like that in the sort of written version of this. but what was the move like in the courtroom. >> it was very cordial. he's not a judge who raises his voice a great deal. but from the very outset, like the first few minutes of this 40-minute hearing, it was pretty clear that -- a message, as you say, a real heater, or brush back message, by saying, if you guys want to pursue some litigation, strategy here, that is fine, but i'm not going to allow it
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to delay this proceeding. it was that kind of tone that we heard from him, again and again, he let the trump lawyers have their say. and then he would come back with some kind of rejoinder, most of those episodes that you have just covered. there was no question that there was a bit of tension and dancing around their. it seemed like the trump lawyers and the judge -- i wouldn't say it was oil and water -- but they were not fully in sync. they were not on the same wave length. >> clearly not. because he keeps offering them this opportunity to say, always declassified, and they keep saying, we can't put that cart before the horse. we're going to deal with that later, after we've had a chance to review all these documents. >> well, that's in keeping with the sort of standard defense attorney strategy. you look for opportunities to delay because you don't want your client to face the music right away. and you look for opportunities to keep your options open. that's the issue. trump's already gone on twitter and said, this was all declassified. and he can do that as much as he wants. but the moment he signs a declaration under oath saying it was declassified, if
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somebody steps forward and says something that isn't true, he is just handed doj yet none of the charges could file against. him so, the judge was saying here, to trump's lawyers, look, if that's your strategy, that is fine, but we are not going to allow that to derail this proceeding. they are not going to be able to get -- it sounds like -- even access to the classified information. unless trump come forward, or someone else, maybe one of trump's aides, like cash patel, or something like that, once the sinus one declaration saying, -- trump said that these documents were declassified. how he would know that they're the same as the hundred documents in mar-a-lago, i don't know how anyone outside the doj could know that. >> well, it sounds like trump's team does not know the classified documents are. they said repeatedly in the courtroom today, we don't have an index of what was in those boxes. we're not sure. which is why we need to review them. but that's also telling, because in order to have declassified anything, you would need to know what the
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documents were. >> you would think so, although trump is putting for this very, very broad argument that there are some implicit declassification, that he was, if you will, so cavalier and careless in the way that he handled documents, in the white house, and perhaps even down in mar-a-lago, that he took things up to the lincoln bedroom, he left them strewn around the east wing of the white house, he took them down to mar-a-lago and left them strewn around there. and those are somehow implicitly declassified. >> the classified -- >> i think that's broadest trump argument. and maybe they can let someone get some traction for. but the judge said, in this proceeding, it's not a criminal case, with the government has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. the burden is on trump's lawyers to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that this stuff wasn't classified, if that was indeed a critical issue that is in contention in this case. >> and until and unless they do that, he's going to presume they are classified. i thought it was really interesting, a, he's not going to let them have access to the documents, as they desperately
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want. and be, he himself doesn't want to look at the documents. that is how seriously he is treating the governments wind classification. >> he seems to be leaving open the possibility that -- something concrete beyond some tweets in the course of the next few weeks, that he may say, i'm gonna take the government's word for it, and i'm gonna soon whatever they say about these classified documents is true. i think there's other arguments still the trump team can put forward, and they started to put forward today that maybe some of the documents are classified, but personal bizarre arguments like that, and they started talking about those things in court. that they could do without contesting the classification issue right now. the question is, do they want to close down trump's options if he is charged eventually, like he said, by having him signed something, or even having his defense team commit to a strategy of saying, these number of documents were declassified. >> well, the strategy seems muddled at best right now. one thing that you highlight is the
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fact that delay seems to be a foundational principle here. what i noticed in the reporting on what happened in the courtroom is that every turn, whether it's the timeframe in which the documents can be scanned by a third party vendor, or choosing a third party vendor, every stage of this, trump's team is asking for more time. they say they want to take baby steps and all this. >> right. right. even the request to get clearance to look at the classified documents, that is well consumes time. they have to get permission from different agencies. sounds like only one member of trump's team has a top secret clearance right now. they would need additional clearances. so the more this gets jumbled together, that is well extends the time. the judge down in florida has already said that she wants this process completed by the end of november. but realistically then, issues will be raised with her. anything dearie decides can be feel to the judge down in florida. we already have issues pending at the 11th circuit. the notion this is gonna be resolved anytime and the next couple months, i think, is kind of a fantasy. and it does seem like
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the trump team, even though they're saying they're not seeking delay, as you say, and each instance they're requesting a somewhat longer timeframe than the government. for the exact same stuff. >> it's piecemeal bargaining. we're talking about days, weeks. but it all adds up. >> to be fair, they won one of the arguments with the judge today, about picking the vendor -- they said, you can have to end of the week, he initially wanted the them to do it by end of tomorrow. he gave them a few bones, if you will. it wasn't all conflict and i don't think he wanted to draw bright line in front of them and say, this is where i'm coming down. >> so, does this investigation. there multiple levels taught us. to all of this. we also have breaking news tonight that letitia james, the new york attorney general, is announcing she will have -- she is pronouncing a major announcement tomorrow at 10:30. we know that this is the civil investigation into the trump organization, and whether or not they inflated or deflated their assets basically to hoodwink loan assessors and the
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like. do you have a sense of what might be coming down the pipe? hi? i know this is all supposition and prognostication. >> it does sound like what she's been promising in that apartment now for a year or two, which is some kind of massive civil case on behalf of the state of new york. perhaps on behalf of the city, or other entities in new york that may have been shorted in her view. we'll estate taxes, perhaps subject to some kind of insurance fraud. she's going to file some kind of case, it sounds like. we know trump was deposed, you remember, after his ex-wife passed away. it was delayed, and back in august, he was finally deposed in this case. i think he invoked the fifth amendment more than 400 times. he fought tooth and nail to not give that deposition where he didn't end up saying anything anyways. obviously, he didn't want the optics of having to invoke the fifth amendment as many times as he did. it sounds like this is where letitia james has had it. is headed.
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she doesn't have a lot of criminal jurisdiction. so it sounds most likely like this is the long advertised massive civil suit over tax fraud, insurance fraud, and similar issues that she's been advertising for sometime. >> sounds like being the operative face. we do not know this is going to be an announcement about trump, but certainly the fact that her office rejected a settlement deal in the recent weeks, the wheels of justice i've have been spending with greater ferocity in recent months. perhaps it is this, the much awaited conclusion to a high profile investigation. or lawsuit. as it were, josh gustine, senior legal affairs reporter at politico, great to see. >> great to see. you. -- we have much more ahead tonight. president biden is in new york city tonight and the white house press secretary, karine jean-pierre, is gonna join me right here on set in just a few minutes. but next, trump's legal team cited the 2012 federal court ruling to argue that document seized in the fbi search of mar-a-lago should be deemed personal items. that 2012 case involved audio recordings kept in former
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president clinton sock drawer. no, really, former president clinton's sock drawer. that is coming up next. stay with us. stay with us some days, it felt like asthma was holding me back. but asthma has taken enough. so i go triple... with trelegy. with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler,... it's the only once-daily treatment for adults that takes triple action against asthma symptoms. trelegy helps make breathing easier,... improves lung function,... and lasts for 24 hours.
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donald trump's legal team, the one in which they continue to try to block the justice department from even looking at the classified documents they seized from trump's beach club, even though those records are the u. s. governments on documents, and now that filing today, trump's team keeps referencing a case from year 2012. the kind of premise their entire defense on it. they keep saying that this case, from 2012, proves that all those documents the fbi seized at mar-a-lago where we're totally trump's personal property and they never should have been taken from him in the first place. that 2012 cases called
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judicial watch versus the national archives and records administration. nowra. and if you are thinking, judicial watch, have i heard of them? oh boy, have you. judicial watch as a right-wing legal organization best known for flooding democratic administrations with ridiculous lawsuits. they filed 20 lawsuits over hillary clinton's emails, they filed lawsuits against government climate scientists accusing them of fraud, they've pushed every pro trump voter fraud conspiracy you can imagine. their founder just had his law license suspended in washington d.c.. but according to reporting from cnn, it was judicial watch as president, tom fitton, who convinced trump he should keep these classified documents, that they were trump's personal property, all based on this court case that judicial watch fought. -- that case concerned, i'm not kidding here, bill clinton's sock drawer. when bill clinton was president, he periodically invited his old
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friend, historian taylor branch of the white house, where they made recordings of clinton reflecting on his presidency. the idea was after clinton left office, he would use the tapes for an autobiography. here's taylor branch talking about it in 2009, when he published his own book based on those tapes. >> he consulted me, an old friend, who had worked a lot in presidential libraries, out of the blue he asked me. what can i do to make sure the records 50 years from now will we reflect what's going on in the administration? we light upon this idea of doing a secret diary. from the very beginning, it was secret, and only in the second administration did you trust me enough to say, you put them away. he had hit them in his sock drawer, in the closet, in the bedroom. >> well, when you just watch found out about these tapes, they filed a lawsuit to get them. they said, these are official presidential records and we should have access to them like any other presidential record. the national archives and records administration, nara --
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they were a personal record he made for himself, and apparently kept in a sock drawer, and the archives were not going to demand that he hand them over. judicial watch lost that case. the court ruled that bill clinton within his right to decide that his sock drawer tapes were personal records. based on that ruling, donald trump is claiming that he has the right to declare that all these classified documents he has squirrels away at his beach club, or his personal records, because he says so. i am not a lawyer. but i would say there are a number of filings here -- chief among them, it would seem to be some obvious differences between some tape recordings you made of yourself, for your own personal use, kept in your sock drawer? and, say, ossify details on another country's nuclear program, as well as top secret human intelligence sources. you simply cannot just decide that another country's nuclear secrets are your own personal property. that is not how any of this
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works. and even if trump wants to claim he has decided that all that stuff is personal records, rather than presidential records, let us not lose sight of the fact that lots of these documents might never have even been presidential records. to the extent that those classified documents are really federal agencies records, they are explicitly excluded by law from the definition of presidential records. these documents did not belong to trump when he was president and they certainly do not, now that he is a private citizen. joining us now is nbc news presidential historian michael beschloss. michael, thank you for being here. >> my pleasure, it's great to see you, alex. >> you as well. >> michael, take us in that time machine back to the 1990s. bill clinton and his buddy, taylor branch, or sitting in the west wing, making tapes to be used in some forthcoming autobiography of some sort. can you contrast that with what trump is alleging, we are getting these classified documents he had squirrel away at mar-a-lago?
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>> sure. i have even talked to bill clinton and taylor branch about those tapes. and they specifically, bill clinton, said these are private records, and said -- if you've got a president, for instance, who sends love letters to his wife, aren't those protected? or can judicial watch subpoena those and publish them in the newspapers while a president is serving? of course not. and in the same way, donald trump has absolutely no right to say that highly classified documents with, let's say, nuclear secrets if that's, what these are. or lists of friends of cia agents and foreign countries, or other things that can be used to harm americans, and make them vulnerable to terrorists, if he just says, those are my private documents, i can do what i feel like with them. it is ridiculous, this will not survive the test in court -- >> it is amazing, how many times, if you read these filings -- how many trump's attorneys
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sight this october case. but we talk about the presidential records as if it is scrapbook keeping or, at least in this scenario, trump's team has wanted us to believe that this is -- these are just souvenirs. but the presidential records in the presidential records act came about after a very specific chapter in american history. can you talk about why the pr right, the presidential records act, is important? and what it signified in a post nixon era? >> okay. i will take my time -- the 90s back to the 90s -- >> please do. >> when richard nixon was driven out of office, he held a lot of embarrassing documents. people who visited the west wing at the time he was leaving, i've noticed that there are a lot of fireplaces working overtime. and the -- of documents being burned, plus nixon had arranged to have military planes illicitly take some of these documents out to san clemente, where he was going to his retirement.
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finally, he made a deal with jerry -- gerald ford -- the new president, than ever should've may, generals for, which said -- sounds like something the hitchcock film. a vault in california, nixon tapes and papers will go into the vault and there will be two keys. one key to be held by the national archives, the other key to be held by richard nixon, with the suggestion that if nixon decided to use his key and destroy every document that might be embarrassing to him, he could do it. congress and the american people find out and this act was passed in 1970. 1978. it said that most everything that president produces in terms of documents during his presidency is the property of the american people. and it has to remain within their hands. it can't be sold by a president. even more so, as you are saying, alex, classified documents, especially from another agency, there's a not just souvenirs.
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that trump could sell to a hostile government or terrorist or -- mar-a-lago. those are secrets that can be used by people who hate america, to kill our children. under the law, they are supposed to be in a national archives vault, under heavy guard, and not sitting around mar-a-lago with people -- >> it really feels like the parallels between what happened with nixon, a president intent on destroying records, and keeping things in a vault with only a single or two keys, the parallels between that and mar-a-lago are stunning and erie. michael beschloss, nbc news presidential historian, thank you, as always, for your time and wisdom, michael. >> pleasure, love it, thank, you alex. >> still ahead on this hour, as soldiers in ukraine continued the fight to take back their country, i will talk to one of their own, ukrainian combat medic who is live here on set. that next, i will be joined by -- kareen jean pierre as president biden prepares to address the first in-person un general assembly in three years. i have a lot to ask.
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kevin: i've fought wildfires for twenty years. here's the reality we face every day. this is a crisis. we need more firefighters, more equipment, better forest management to prevent wildfires and reduce toxic smoke. and we need to reduce the tailpipe emissions that are driving changes to our climate. that's why cal fire firefighters, the american lung association, and the california democratic party support prop 30. prevent fires. cut emissions. and cleaner air. president biden's right to new yes on 30. york city a few hours ago from the united nations general assembly. he's expected to speak to the 193 member body tomorrow. rallies port for ukraine as that country continues to fight
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back russian forces. the white house says biden will lay out his plan for american foreign policy at the when as he juggles a number of other issues on the home front. an ongoing immigration -- looming midterms and the end, but the middle, of a pandemic. joining us now on is karine jean-pierre the white house press secretary sarah new york. president biden's u.s. delegation to the un general. karine, welcome to the, new york -- congratulations on the show. >> thank you congratulations to you. but >> i want to talk about the broken public and governors, first, because today governor ron desantis in florida reported there was some suggestion they might be flying applied of violence to present and subside of delaware. that plane landed moments ago, an hour ago, i'm not as sack the share of the timeframe, and it was empty. it would seem to suggest that desantis was aware that president biden had his number. i know you commented on
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this political ploy earlier. but the face-off between republican governors and this administration is pretty posh. i wonder, internally, or not internally, as the president reached out to these governors? >> here's the thing. i was asked this question earlier today. i don't know why we would reach out to a governor or governors who are clearly playing a political game. it is something they're doing not to find a solution, but to literally put peoples lives at risk. we're talking about people who are fleeing communism, we're talking about folks who are leaving venezuela, leaving cuba, because there are regimes there that are incredibly dangerous. and they're using these children, these families, as political pawns after dealing with the political stress that they're dealing from another country. so that's not the solution. that's a political game that they're playing. and so what we're doing is we're calling that out because it's
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dangerous. when you leave kids on the side of the road of a busy busy street, that's dangerous. we've heard from these families saying that they were worried, they were scared, that they didn't know it was happening, what was going on, and it is incredibly shameful. the question around the, governor desantis, as what he talking to the people in florida? folks who are from those countries, that you are using these folks as a political pawn, as a political game. look, we've always been ready on day one. the president said he put forward his immigration legislation, and comprehensive piece of legislation, and he said let's figure out how we fix this broken system. but instead, that's not what they want to do. they don't want to vote for historic amount of funds that would go to dhs to deal with this issue. they don't want to work on real solutions. so we're gonna call that out, alex.
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>> i understand that. this is clearly political gamesmanship, if you will. and it's not incumbent on the person who's not playing that game to call them. it shows that joe biden is the kind of president you think -- i mean, this is a kind of president he proposed himself to be as a candidate. who would say, cut it out. whether that would make any difference to governor abbott and ron desantis is an open question. it might not. but in terms of the crisis on the border, something that directly needs to be addressed, i want to talk about where the white house is that in terms of solutions. we have some reporting from nbc. dhs officials have presented the white house with some auctions including flying migrants to the northern border, canada, to alleviate crowding on the u. s. mexican border. migrants will be sent to such cities as los angeles, where shelters would get an advanced warning to have time to prepare for the influx.
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i know some people are gonna say, sending migrants on planes -- weight, allow ballots. tell me how that's meaningfully different from what desantis and abbott are doing. >> let me just say a couple things about what's happening at the border. dhs put out a report playing out what kind of migration situation we're dealing with, which is very new. i mentioned venezuela and nicaragua, cuba, we've seen an increase of about 100 and 21% tom since last year of what's going on with these countries that are fleeing communism. that's gone up. if you look at not central america in the last three months, we've seen a decrease of about 43%. so we're in a different kind of migration -- we have to deal with where we are. the way we work this thing is there's title 42, which is a tight -- cdc health authority. it's not
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an immigration authority. what we've been able to do and the past 19 months, and the past year, as we've seen a very much increase, a historic increase, of people we've been able to expel out of the country. so that is something that we've been able to do. look, the system is broken. we know that. it was decimated by the last administration. and what we're trying to do is fix something that has had decades and decades of deterioration. when you look at the system. so what we're asking is where axing to really fix it in a way that is trans formative. we're asking republicans, instead of playing political games, why don't you join us in trying to fix the real problem that's happening at the border? >> so these measures title 42, a trump era holdover, flying migrants to other cities, you see this as a skunk dot gap
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measure. >> because we have to fix what's actually broken. >> yeah. >> right? if we don't do that, we're not truly addressing an issue that is affecting all of us. and so, look, the border is not open, we're doing everything that we can to make sure that we're dealing with this issue. it's a crisis that has been decimated. the system has been decimated by the last administration, and so we have to do everything that we can. but again, these political games, we're gonna call them out. they're really inhumane and inappropriate. >> maybe joe biden should fly down to florida and visit ron desantis. i'm gonna stop with the joe biden run desantis thing. but one good turn deserves another. i wanna ask you about covid. >> okay. >> and how you think of this pandemic in the white house. right? on 60 minutes, president biden says, we still have a
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problem with covid. we're still doing a lot of work on it. but the pandemic is over. now, does he think the pandemic is over? >> so let me just put this into context a little bit. when he was asked this question, he was walking through the detroit auto show which had not been open, or had not been held, i should say, and three years. even as we're talking about unga, he's going to unga, and it hasn't been held in person and three years. so, we're in a different place because of the work that this administration has done. because we're prepared, because this treatment, because there are vaccines, because there are tests. and you look at where we are today, 90% -- when we walked in, the deaths were about 3000 a day. which is really awful. that's what we are seeing. now, that number has gone down by 90%. if you think about schools are now open, businesses are now open, because of the work of what this administration is done. so he's saying, it is not
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disruptive as it was before. we are in a different place, and he's been consistent and saying that. but, there's still more work to do. in order to be able to continue to get this vaccine, for this next generation, if you will, of vaccines and treatments, we have to keep doing the work. that's why are asking congress, hey, we need that funding to continue what we've been doing. 220 million people are fully vaccinated. why is that? it's because of the work that this administration has done. it's 77% of the population. again, it's not as disruptive as it was before. we're managing this now. we know it works. we have the tests. we have the vaccines. we have the treatment. but again, we have to think about the future. >> yeah. i believe it's only 34. 7% of the country got their second booster. we still have
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400 people dying a day, and by the way, 21% of americans who caught covid have long covid, which is a whole another wave of this. so i'm trying to glean the essence of this. it's not over, we are seeing some kind of light at the end of the tunnel, but we're still in the tunnel. >> we are -- >> is that what you feel? >> yes. and here's the thing, americans are feeling about themselves. that's why when he was walking through the halls of the detroit auto show, he pointed out how people were not wearing masks, and now the auto show is open again, and that matters for folks. right? this is a different time than we were when we walked in, january of 2021. that is because of what we've been able to do. a comprehensive vaccination program that we have been able to put forth. because it was so important to manage this the
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right way in order to turn our economy back on, in order to get our schools open, in order to get him -- save some of these small businesses, get back going again. and that's when he's talking about. and is not disrupting our lives. not the way it has been. it's not controlling our lives the way that it has been. do we have more work to do? yes. and he actually said that, as you just laid out in his comments. >> we are onset, unmasked, things have changed. there's no doubt about that. karine jean-pierre, thanks so much. --
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may be about dramatically escalate its war in ukraine. in the past few days, officials in -- and its plans hold referendums on whether or not become officially a part of russia. the voting starts on friday will last for four days. holding a quote unquote referendum in a territory that is essentially held at gunpoint will have no real international effect. the white house is already called these referenda a sham and said the u.s. will never recognize russia's claims to ukrainian territories. this is part of russia's territory playbook. so you can claim a territories russian, it makes it easier to justify the need to defended two audiences inside russia. it makes it easier to drum up
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national support for the war. russia did that in 2014, when putin annexed crimea from ukraine, and it seems he's doing it again now, perhaps out of desperation. the war after all is not going well. russia has lost tens of thousands of troops and ukraine's latest offensive has russian troops surrendering or retreating in droves. today russia lawmakers approved a bill toughens penalties for either cities or from the military. he also makes it a crime to volunteer surrender to ukrainian forces, a crime punishable by up to ten years behind buyers. president putin also ordered russian arms manufacturers to produce more weapons and faster. joyce had to make a primetime address to the nation today before abruptly pushing it to tomorrow. we don't know exactly that what he's plan on telling the nation but with these new referenda, with these new laws against surrendering, and a new major push to increase arms manufacturing, although signs appear to be pointing toward
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military escalation. and as much as ukraine has made incredible advances in the past month, this war is far from over -- very much a story of david versus goliath. ukraine is not they independently have the kind of manufacturing ability that russia does to supply its military. this is the arena. she is a senior corporal, a combat medic and a -- and this car, the civilian model suv, and mitsubishi wagon this is -- literally a mitsubishi wagon, this is what she says an ambulance on the front lines of the war. this is the drone that she uses to look for russian troop positions. it is a civilian model as well. you can literally get one of those at best buy. you arena has been a member of the cranium military -- since before the latest war began. the beginning of the war she -- mario ball. more recently, yurina and her unit have been on the frontlines in the donetsk region and now she is in the
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u.s. on a military mission to help americans understand just how much ukraine needs their support. joining us now is yurina, senior combat medic and the ukrainian military. yurina, thank you so much for being with us. >> it's good to be here. >> i, tell me -- i know you are here for a very specific purpose. what are you and the ukrainian military open to get from the u.s.. first of all, i want to thank americans for all the help that we get. i can say that the american himars and howitzers, they have changed the character of this war. as i was on the north of the mariupol, the beginning of march, we got granite launchers, javelins, and they attacked us with great, long tank columns,
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like 40 or 5000 columns and it was really hard to stop right now with these weapons -- they don't attack us with such big forces and artillery works immediately on the small groups of tanks. they're russian, they're watching for week plays. they stopped them really effectively. and we shouldn't -- so high casualty rate. >> thanks to some of the weaponry, whether it is javelins or homers -- >> yeah, of course, we need also armored vehicles because it is eight months of the war. and we have run out of armor, so we need heavy armor, because we have tank spot, their post soviet. and in order to back our territories, to liberate our territories, we need tanks. because --
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you cream -- basically occupied with thanks. and the best response to russian tank is a tank. >> -- we need parts. that's what we need. we also need aircraft to control close our airspace because the russians, they hit our cities, our civilian infrastructure with rockets, and we don't have anything to respond to them with that. and our civilian people are dying every day. >> that is worth mentioning again and again. we saw that picture of your car. it's a mitsubishi, it's a passenger vehicle. you are driving that literally out the front lines of battle, to save lives. can you tell me about what you as a medic are seeing and what you need out on the front line of battle? >> alex, thank you for this question. it's a good question. as a combat medic, perhaps my hardest experience was at the beginning of the march in the
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village which were three teams times attacked with such big ten column of russians. we had hard battles, lots of wounded soldiers, every day. for me, it's not difficult to help soldiers. because i was learned -- >> its war. >> yes. but one day, i had a situation, it was very cold. i remember this thin layer of snow, everywhere in the -- great coldness, in this village. and i was called by my commander, and he told me that he was -- wounded civilians -- . and he showed me.
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first of all, i saw wounded civilian -- i started to -- and then i hear screaming from the basement. and i had finish my tampa night -- i went to the basement and i saw a boy, aged ten, screamed because of pain. and started watching. he told that he has a pain and his just, and i saw small shrapnel. we just after bombing this forbidden cluster, the >> -- where ukrainian civilians lift. >> a child, a ten year old? >> yes. i put a chest seal. and we -- as well as his house mother with ten months, maybe, on our
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hands. i have this picture from my eyes one day, they sit together, in our the école. she's crying and the boys just and black it with his chest sealed, this great pain. and that was my perhaps hardest experience because, as i said, to help military, it's what we chose. but kids -- >> the mother. >> it's a hard experience for me -- >> a mother with the ten months the -- the horrors of war are just so staggering, in this particular conflict, where civilians are both fighting and victim in all of this. yaryna chornohuz, senior corporal combat medic and drone pilot in the greater military. thank you for everything you are doing to fight for the cause of democracy. we hope we can support your efforts as you are here in -- >> thank you, to all americans. >> we will be right back. ll be right back the scent made quite an impression.
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