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tv   Chris Jansing Reports  MSNBC  September 22, 2022 10:00am-11:00am PDT

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judge's ruling that had blocked it from going forward. the three-judge panel, two of whom appointed pit donald trump,s found that the judge was wrong on multiple counts. including the idea that trump could have any personal claim over classified documents, or that he would be harmed if the investigation went forward. in their decision, the court said, quote, the united states argues that the district court, in other words judge cannon, likely ered to join the united states use of classified records in its criminal investigation and to require the united states to submit the marked classified documents to a special master for review. we agree. with its ruling, the appellate court removed an obstacle that could have delayed it for weeks or longer. the court agreed with the doj's original argument that the delay, quote, risks imposing real and significant harm on the
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united states and the public. whether trump broke the law by having classified documents at mar-a-lago, the heart of that investigation had the former president suggesting yet another new argument about presidential powers and declassifying documents. >> you're the president of of the united states. you can declassify by thinking about it. >> the doj ruling came hours after that other legal blow for trump. the 222-page lawsuit by the new york attorney general that charges him, don j, eric and ivanka with widespread fraud and ul legal practices that could threatenen the exist tense of the family business. i want to bring in devlin barrett from "the washington post." he wrote about this story today. paul butler is a former prosecutor, professor at georgetown school of law. and olivia troy served as former koubt terrorism adviser to mike pence. so paul, the appellate court said the judge wasn't wrong on
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some of the points. they went point by point by point and said she was basically wrong on all of them. what's your take on this ruling? >> sometimes even when a judge's decision gets reversed, the i pelt lat court is sympathetic and says this was a hard case and the judge's mistake was understandable. that's not the message the circuit wanted to send to judge cannon. the court was emphatic that the judge abused her discretion in a way that puts our national security at risk. and the appellate court said trump's lawyers don't get to look at the classified materials that the fbi seized at mar-a-lago. so this has been a horrendous week, legally speaking, for donald trump and a really good week for the rule of law. >> let's talk about ha that means for the investigation specifically. what happens to those classified documents at the center of it now?
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>> so those documents have been in a secure facility since they were taken from mar-a-lago. what this means is that there's not going to be shuttled around to new york or other places while the government tries to fit into the old rules of the judge cannon's order. so basically, it's full steam ahead for this investigation. that's important because investigators have said they still need to figure out are there other classified documents out there they haven't found or are there people who weren't supposed to see these classified documents who did see them because they were in mar-a-lago. those are two big questions that haven't been absenteed yet. now the fbi can hunt hard on those questions. >> one of trump's main arguments is that these documents weren't classified because he declassified them. he's been saying that from the beginning. when he was on fox, he was asked exactly how he declassified them. and he told kind of another story. let's listen.
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>> it did you want have to be a process, as i understand it. there's different people say different thing, but there doesn't have to be. if you're the president of the united states, you can declassify by saying it's declassified, even by thinking about it. because you're sending it to mar-a-lago or to wherever you're sending it, and it doesn't have to be a process but it doesn't have to be. you're the president. you make that decision. so when you send it, it's declassified. i declassified everything. >> i can see paul is laughing, but olivia, let's just take the notion that there is no process for declassifying documents. so if he thinks about it, it just is declassified. is there a process? >> it's magical. it's poof and then everything is declassified. that's not how to works.
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that's ludicrous. and there have been many of nus national security who have been very vocal about this. those who served in the trump administration with john bolton, myself who was an adviser to mike pence, none of us were aware of the declassification, and all of us agree that there is, indeed, a process. it's not just a random thing we're seeing out there. there would be a paperer trail. there would be lawyers involved. the director of national intelligence and the classifying authority of an agent us is, especially for some of the very sensitive documents that are labeled, there would be an entire paper trail and also a stamp on the documents. so if this is the case, it's completely ludicrous to say in my mind i can just wave a magical wand and this process happens.
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>> so as somebody who knows how the system actually works, the court actually talked about this idea that somehow former president trump had a personal claim. i want to read what they said about that. for our part, we cannot discern why plaintiffs would have an individual interest in or need for any of the so 100 documents with classification markings. plaintiff has not attempted to show he has a need to know the information contained in the classified documents. can you think of a reason or, i guess, some part of the way that your able to say personally this is important to me or i want this. >> donald trump is a private citizen. he has no right to possess these documents.
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also these documents were improperly stored as well. that's also part of this. the fact that they were just sitting in a basement at mar-a-lago outside of a secure facility and especially the classification of these documents, they are stored in a state inside a secured facility, inside a secure office. that's the level of security that is taken when handling these types of things. so this whole scenario is just focused and bizarre. what this investigation needs to move forward. yesterday was a great day for the rule of law because this investigation is serious. it's a matter of national security. all politics aside. >> so what does this decision mean for the special master now? >> it actually simplifies the special master's job quite a bit. we saw the special master in brooklyn sort of signal at a hearing on tuesday that he was going to try to avoid the classified material, if he could. whether the trump lawyers liked that or not. what the 11th circuit said you
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don't need to worry about that. the special master will now review all of the other material, the nonclassified material, and go through it for whatever trump may have an attorney-client privilege issue in or a much more vaguely defined of executive privilege, which the administration argues doesn't even exist for a former president. so the special master can now go forward, but the important thing about this ruling is that it basically means the fbi is no longer waiting on the special master's work to do the most important part of this investigation. >> so i also want to ask you about this horrible day for trump and his legal team yesterday. specifically about the attorney general's massive lawsuit. those 222 pages, tons of examples that show the scope of of the alleged fraud. for example, the suit says his mar-a-lago property should have been valued at $75 million. he claimed it was worth almost $750, so 10 times the amount. the lawsuit says in 2010 a bank
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awe praised a dozen rent-stabilized apartments at trump park avenue at $750,000. but then in 2011 and 2012, he valued them at $50 million, more than 50 times the aphrase sal. and then last night on fox news, he blamed the banks. listen. >> what happened is we have a disclaimer right on the front. it basically says, get your own people, you're at your own risk. what we do is here's the financial statement, but be careful because it may not be acurate. it maybe way off. think it's dloez a page and a half of all of these things, get your own people. use your own appraisers. use your own lawyers. don't rely on us. >> what do you make of that in terms of a possible legal defense? >> so maybe it's an argument about why these banks should also be investigated for their credit practices, but it's not a
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defense for trump for a couple reasons. first, when he submitted the documents, he attested to their truth, just like ordinary citizen dots when we file our taxes. and the banks also have a disclaimer on the statements. hey, our information is only as good as what our client tells us. and that's why trump's accounting firm said earlier this year that people shouldn't leave our filings about trump for the last ten years. >> so if you're going to make an argument that the bank should be possibly or some banks should also be looked at because obviously it's not that hard to figure out if an apartment is worth $ 75 million or $750 million. but does that remove any possible culpability by donald
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trump, even if the banks didn't do their due diligence. >> not at all. you were talking about numbers earlier. prosecutors love cases like that. documents don't lie. it's true that this investigation was launched based on claims by michael cohen. they seem credible, but he would be a lousy witness. but in a civil case, they don't need help him. the attorney general doesn't need him. they have all of these papers, and again, that's what makes the case. >> what are you looking for next as we look at this con influence of so many different kinds of legal jeopardy potentially for donald trump. what are you watching for? >> i think one of of the things you see in the mar-a-lago case is there's a lot of concern about obstruction and possible destruction of evidence. and that concern seems to center around things his lawyers did
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and said to the government in the may and june time period. i think that is the most pressing issue on their plate right now to understand why those things were said and why they were not true. and i think in the investigation, i think that's the next really important thing to be looking for. the degree to which his own lawyers maybe in trouble. >> what a great conversation. thanks to all of you. i'm sure we'll be talking again. a showdown an the u.n. between russia and the u.s. we have the latest from the security council meeting. and the administration's plan, ned price is here next. plus stunning developments in the january 6th investigation. as ginni thomas agrees to meet with the committee. what will she tell them? and later, do children dpo hungry because of fraudsters behind what federal investigators say was the largest covid relief fraud
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scheme to date. what the real world impact was when covid money didn't feed kids but paid for luxury car, property and jewelry. you're watching "chris jansing reports," only on msnbc. finding the perfect developer isn't easy. but, at upwork, we found her. she's in prague, between the perfect cup of coffee and her museum of personal computers. and you can find her, and millions of other talented pros, right now on upwork.com when moderate to severe ulcerative colitis persists... put it in check with rinvoq, a once-daily pill. when uc got unpredictable,... i got rapid symptom relief with rinvoq. check. when uc held me back... i got lasting, steroid-free remission with rinvoq. check. and when uc got the upper hand... rinvoq helped visibly repair the colon lining. check.
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russian foreign minister facing off against ukraine and the west at the u.n. security council meeting today. after poout's threat of a nuclear response to his battlefield loss ps. above their heads this painting, meant to symbolize peace and the world rebuilding ilgts itself after war. ab intense juxtaposition as putin calls up 300,000 reservists to join the fight, which has sparked not just the largest wave in demonstrations since the war began across russia, but one-way flights out of russia have sold out since the announcement. amid this mobilization, secretary blinken taking the opportunity today to remind the world that only one person has
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the power to end this brutal war. >> one man chose this war. one man can end it. because if russia stops fighting, the war ends. if ukraine stops fighting, ukraine ends. >> i want to bring in state department spokesman ned price. how seriously is the administration taking putin's nuclear threats? and beyond what we heard from the president responding to him yesterday, what can and is the u.s. and its allies doing as a potential deterrent? >> reporter: good to see you. we're concerned. this is a concern that we don't take lightly. it's something we're discussing with allies and partners, including here this week at the united nations. we have seen any number of signs of failure and weakness on the part of the russian federation in ukraine. you mentioned a couple of them. president poout called for a partial mobilization of 300,000
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russian citizens to fight and die inside ukraine, as so many of their come patriots have. the sham referendum slated for the next couple days. and then today you heard those powerful words from secretary blinken inside the counsel. the foreign minister sent a very powerful signal. i'm sure not in the way he intended. he couldn't bear to be there as other foreign ministers condemned russia's aggression. he showed up right before he took the mic and he left right after his remarks ended. it's quite remarkable that president putin has the temerity to call up hundreds of thousands of more russians to serve as potential photoer inside of ukraine, and yet the russian foreign minister can't even bear to listen to criticism from foreign ministers from around the world. it that isn't a sign of weakness, i don't know what is. >> a lot of people look at this
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as putin being backed into a corner. in "the new york times" this morning, roger cohen, one of many people who argue this, argues that a cornered vladimir putin is a dangerous vladimir putin. let me read what he wrote. seven months into the war, its resolution appears more distant than ever. perhaps not since the cuban missile crisis have american and russian leaders confronted each other so sharply on the danger of nuclear war. does the u.s. see putin as being backed into a corner, feeling backed into a corner? does that make him more dangerous? >> this isn't a corner for one simple reason. there's an off ramp for vladimir putin. we have to remember that vladimir putin is the secretary said today chose this war. vladimir putin can choose to end this war. he do a that today. he can do that tomorrow. today in the chamber, the ukrainian foreign minister
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reiterated what we have heard from president so so lent skit, that the united states is prepared to support that diplomacy. a number of allies and partners have been doing what they can to encourage that diplomacy. putin and the russian federation has not yet shown any indication or willingness to engage in good faith diplomacy. so our task in the meantime is to do what has demonstrably worked. that is to continue to provide ukraine partners with defensive security assistance, billions of dollars. we provided $15.1 billion since the start of the invasion alone. we'll continue to do that because it has worked. it's allowed our ukrainian partners to get back territory that was taken from them. dozens of counties are doing the same. on the other side, we're going to continue to mount sanctions and other economic costs on the russian federation.
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we're doing that so that if and when that negotiating table develops, ukraine will be in the strongest possible position to end this war and to end this war on the terms that it sees fit. >> so nobody thinks that vladimir putin is just going to wave a white flag. so to your point of sitting down at a negotiating table, what's the likelihood of that. what might that look like? do you think these protests we're seeing in russia, the people seeming to flee the country, the domestic pressure has any impact on putin? >> it's really remarkable to see what's going on inside russia. we have seen this in recent months. ed we're seeing it again now. thousands of people across dozens of cities are exercising their universal right to peaceful freedom of assembly, freedom of expression, and even though they are not allowed to genuinely express their will at the ballot box, they are voting with their feet quite literally.
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air fare is sold out from russia. russian citizens are trying to flee rather than be conscripted and put into this war inside ukraine. that's a very powerful symbol. we have to be clear. the prospects for diplomacy in the near term don't appear to be good. again, ukraine is prepared to sit down, to engage in dialogue. russia is not. so until and unless russia changes that oientation, we're going to continue doing what has worked, what has allowed and put our ukraine partners in a position to take back their sovereign territory that the russians have had conquered in recent weeks and months. >> does the escalation push us further ask further from reaching a deal for the return of paul whelan and brittney griner? >> i think you have to remember that trevor reed, who had been
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held in russia for months and months, a u.s. marine was freed during the course of russia's invasion against ukraine. so we are not going to let this stand in the way of our efforts to see the release of paul whelan, brittney griner. as you know, we put forward a substantial proposal to the russian federation a number of weeks ago now. we have engaged in direct discussions with the russians about this proposal. we continue to urge them to take up this proposal so that we can bring paul and brittney griner home and reunite them with their families. >> let me ask you finally president treasury department is imposing sanctions on iran's morality pleas. what's the u.s. message to the women of iran right now? >> our message to the women of iran is the same message i delivered to the people of russia. the women of iran, the people of russia, people around the world
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have universal rights. among those universal rights are the rights to peaceful assembly, the right to freedom of expression. we have seen those rights extinguished, in some cases violently, both in russia and including recently in iran with what is going on there. seven people have been killed. at least in the recent uprising you're right that we continue to stand with them. but we also continue to take action. today not only did we sanction the so-called morality police, but seven other individuals who have been compicit in some of the repression that we have seen on the part of the iranian government. unfortunately, this is par for the course in many ways from this regime. to violently try to attempt to extinguish the exercise of those universal rights on the part of its citizens. what we have seen from the people of iran is what we have seen from the people of russia. that spirit, that determination to peacefully exercise those
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rights can't be extinguished and won't be. >> incredibly intense time. we thank you for taking the time to talk to us. ned price, appreciate it. the tentacles of the january 6th investigation now reaching the wife of a supreme court justice. what can we expect from her testimony? you're watching "chris jansing reports," only on msnbc. g "chrig reports," only on msnbc. now ports can know where every piece of cargo is. and where it's going. (dock worker) right on time. (vo) robots can predict breakdowns and order their own replacement parts. (foreman) nice work. (vo) and retailers can get ahead of the fashion trend of the day with a new line tomorrow. with a verizon private 5g network, you can get more agility and security. giving you more control of your business. we call this enterprise intelligence. from the network america relies on.
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♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ yet another fascinating twist in the investigation, the woif of a supreme court justice is set to appear before the january 6th committee. what will ginni thomas have to say about her alleged role in a plot to overturn the 2020 presidential election? for awhile it looked like the members weren't interested in compelling her testimony, even though there's evidence of e-mails with trump lawyers regarding his fake electors scheme and we know she's changed messages with trump white house chief of staff mark meadows prior to january 6th about overturning the election. let's bring in after ali vitali and jacki, investigator for "the
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washington post." it's easy in the avalanche of broken norms to think this is regular, but this is very far from supreme court norms for sure. not only is ginni thomas the wife of a justice, she's been publically critical of the committee. it called for republicans to basically get kicked out of the party. and yet she's coming in voluntarily. what do we know about how woe got to this point and what does the committee hope they can get from her? >> you're right to point out how far from the norm we are here. isn't that really the story of the entire january 6th committee? the day a that spurred them into having anything to investigate in the fist place. the fact that ginni thomas is coming in voluntarily does mean that the committee wanted to speak to her but did not want to have to subpoena her. this is the result of of months of conversations between her legal team and the committee themselves. and you pointed out the conversations that she was
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having with people like the architect of the fake electors scheme and the person who had the plan of how to overturn the election results, the fact that she was in conversation with him that there are e-mails about her trying to help push the fake elector scheme, that speaks to the things that the committee presented but she could present new light. even as the committee is about to come back into session, we're going to see and hear things they have not yet presented. so there will be new information here. they are also still actively fact gathering. that speaks to where they will go, which is what the chairman mentions to those in the halls of congress is that final report. we still expect that we're going to see from this committee an interim report sometime in october. then a final report sometime towards the end of the year. even as they still are grappling with fake questions not just
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about ginni thomas, but about the republican members of congress defying their subpoenas and whether or not this committee is going to try to speak to trump or mike pence themselves. big questions looming as they come back to the public spotlight next week. >> it's one thing to come in. it's another to cooperate. do we have any information about whether or not she's going to answer questions actually, and if there are key questions that they would want her to answer, what are they? >> her lawyer has said from the get go that mrs. thomas has been willing to cooperate with the committee and sit down. they have hedged and said there's not that much to share that hasn't already been published my colleague emma brown has done a fantastic job on reporting on the involvement in the efforts to overturn the results of the election. and she found she pressed law make ers in wisconsin and
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arizona to overturn the results of the election and go along with the fake elector scheme that ali mentioned. whether or not she is the wife of a supreme court justice, she's someone investigators would want to show the extent of the sprawl of this scheme and the efforts and whether or not there was anymore coordination, as you noted we know she was in touch with not only mark meadow, but john eastman. we reported several months ago the two were e-mailing with each other. and i think at this point, the committee probably has materials they are going to want to ask ginni more about that potentially will be chalking for her to try to dodge that question since they have so much hard evidence at this point. >> a lawyer for ginni thomas has said that she was concerned
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about the future of our country under president biden's leadership, but nothing she did was illegal. they deny she had any role or information about the january 6th attack. and again, it's important to note john eastman once clerked for clarence thomas and he was the only justice to dissent when the supreme court ruled that former president trump could not withhold presidential records from the january 6th committee. but at least privately from the folks you talked to, are there republicans who believe those texts and e-mails were a mistake. do they see this testimony as problematic? >> i do think that ginni thomas is interesting in that she is a highly influential conservative who has a more quiet power than her very famous and influential husband, who sits on the supreme court. and she is someone that you see people to not want to cross the rub con on. even liz cheney was very
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reticent to ramp up measures to get her to come in. and we were told it was sort of wanted to straddle this fine line between protecting the republican party and someone who is flubs shl in conservative circles, while also getting what is described as the rot of the party and some of what has emanated from former president trump. but i think at the end of the day, it's hard to differentiate those two things. what ginni thols was advocating for in those e-mails to local and state lawmakers is constitutional theory that most legal scholars disagree with and believe is unconstitutional. and speaks to this broader battle at play over the independent state legislature theory, which is this legal doctrine that has sort of divided the republican party. it depends on what comes out of these hearings and what comes out of her closed-door interview
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and whether or not we see any of that next week during public hearing or ultimately in the final report issued by the january 6th committee. >> thank you. appreciate it. we want to do a deeper dive on the hundreds of millions of dollars that were meant to feed children during the pandemic. but allegedly were stolen. the impact on the communities affected by what authorities say is the largest covid relief fraud scheme to date. that's ahead on "chris jansing reports," only on msnbc. siness do for your business? unlock new insights and efficiency-right now. allow monitoring of productivity at remote job sites, with next-generation bandwidth. enable ai cameras that spot factory issues in real time, using next-generation speed. and deliver ultra-capacity 5g coverage that's years ahead of the competition. t-mobile for business has 5g that's ready right now.
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needy children in minnesota during the pandemic, but what it actually bought, according to the charges, were luxury vehicles, housing, jewelry, even a coastal resort property. in a state where 61,000 kids live below the poverty line and were unemployment spiked as much as 85% above the baseline during the pandemic, that's according to figures from minnesota officials. and the average family of four spends more than $9,000 on food every year. so the $125 million worth of fake meals at the center of this case could have been a real game changer for families trying to feed their kids in minnesota. i want to bring in steven who helped break this story. congratulations on your great reporting. i understand you got even some new reporting out on this dispute tweep feeding our future, which is the nonprofit at the heart of this, and a cafe
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that will help paint a picture of what this fraud looked like. >> thank you for having me. today we had additional reporting that was at the center of these charges. the nonprofit feeding our future was accused of sponsoring up 200 sites across the state of minnesota for federal food a aid programming that prosecutors say either was grossly inflated or didn't happen at all. and in this case, we have had allegations that there were kickbacks up to tens of hundreds of thousands of dollars, and some say they were accused of that. >> one employee pocketed $5 million is the accusation? >> according to the indictments, yes. >> so i did those statistics. obviously, minnesota isn't
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unlike a lot of other places where people lost their jobs during the pandemic because places closed there was nowhere for them to work. there were more and more children needing help. they weren't in school. many children depend on school meal programs in order to eat. how far could this money have gone for families in the community? what are you hearing from families and legitimate nonprofits that feed hungry children? >> i would say in this case, according to the charges that i have reported on, a lot of the victimization that's being described so far is taxpayer money. the $250 million that came from the federal government to minnesota was intended for children in need, which in many cases were not even exist.
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so certainly that would be money that could have gone to more legitimate programs. either in minnesota or else y wr in the country. but because of the alleged fabrications that were made, that money came here and went to luxury cars and beachside properties and other personal items. >> this is the largest that we have seen so far. not that others couldn't be out there, but i'm wopdering what the attorney general, other officials are saying about other ongoing possible civil and criminal investigations. >> in this case, it was certainly even though it involved 48 defendants and very staggering scale of alleged money that was fraudulent, it was described on tuesday morning as just the first wave of charges here. indeed, later that afternoon, there was a criminal complaint unsealed against another defendant, a 48th person, who
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was accused of booking a one-way flight out of the country for this week. so the case continues. there's the expectation that three people will plead guilty in the near future and there could be additional charges just in this one investigation alone. >> steven, thank you for being on the program congratulations again on your reporting. we appreciate it. new action by the federal reserve in hopes of easing consumers pain, but how long will it be until we see real impact? you're watching "chris jansing reports," only on msnbc. hris jag reports," only on msnbc.
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change your scenery. and make it shine. so no matter what project your tackling, from refresh to remodel, wayfair's got everything you need to give your home a fresh spin. ♪ wayfair you've got just what i need ♪ new warnings from the federal reserve that things may get worse for your wallet before they get better. even after the fed's latest aggressive move, an interest rate hike of three quarters of a percentage point, the fifth rate increase just this year. and it is expected to make it more expensive to borrow money, impacting car payments, business loans, credit card debt, mortgage rates. so when will the fed's aggressive actions to tamp down inflation start making a difference? for more on this, i want to bring in "politico" chief economic correspondent and
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economic contributor ben white. i think it is a question for a lot of americans dealing with higher prices to say okay, the fed says they need to do this to get the situation under control. when is it going to be under control? >> thanks for having me. it's going to take a little bit of time. obviously, the fed hiked several times so far. it hasn't done much to bring down inflation, still at 8.3%, which is still way too high on an annual basis and jay powell the fed chair said yesterday said we will do whatever it takes, as long as it takes, to get inflation to a reasonable level. and that means, you know, at least a year, maybe more than that of rate hikes before they're finished. and we haven't seen much relief for consumers other than gas prices, which we know are down, but mortgage rates, shooting up, we're going to get other credit card rates going up, so people will feel the pain of higher rates probably before they get relief on prices, unfortunately. >> now, a lot of small business owners are feeling the effects for sure, and i want to play a little bit of an interview with the ceo of a boutique in
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washington, d.c. >> yes, i mean some of the cutbacks that i've been thinking about is hours, payroll is always one of those things that you can imagine and that is a huge pinch on me. >> a lot of companies are talking that way. is there anything that the federal government can do to soften the blow in the meantime? >> there's not a ton. and it makes sense what your small business owner said there, people are talking about laying off staff, or stopping hiring, and a lot more work for the owners, and people around them, but if you fear a recession, that's what you do. and we've done a lot of stimulus already, as you know, chris, throughout the pandemic, we spent billions and billions of dollars, and there's not a lot of appetite now for further federal assistance, and i mean there's small business loan programs that might be helpful, but in terms of big stimulus to help struggling business owners like that, i wouldn't expect much, particularly not in an election season, and certainly not if republicans win the house in november.
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>> quote, the moves are designed to kill the worst inflation in 40 years. they're also likely to kill u.s. economic growth. how much of a concern is that for the fed? how much of a concern is that for the biden administration politically? >> both big concerns for both. obviously the biden administration will stay away from publicly criticizing the fed, as is the proper stance to take. privately would like to see them go a little bit slower and not derail us into a recession quickly. but as you saw, as those who watched yesterday, he reaffirmed very strongly that their number one job is to bring down inflation and prices and do whatever it takes to get there and the sub text it will knock the country into a little bit of a recession even if it means getting back to 2 to 3% inflation. biden is worried about. the fed is worried about it. but we will risk recession rather than let prices stay this high over the love term.
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>> is another interest rate coming? and if so, how soon? >> the next meeting in november, which i think happens to be on election day, as it happens, i will have to double check but i think that's right, another rate hike, even a half point or three quarters of a point and unless somehow the inflation miraculously comes down between now and then which is not likely to do. so yes in november another hike and probably several more after that. >> i mean we used to talk about quarter point here, a quarter point there, when did it get to be three quarters? >> it's been 30 years since we did three quarters, back in the volker days in the '80s, and all of your viewers may be too young to live through that, but the last time we have had inflation is 79-80 and the last time we had the three quarter point hikes and multiple, with paul volker trying to kill inflation and that is the boat that powell is in right now, doing outsized rate cuts to try to get traction on inflation before it is totally out of control. >> ben white, thank you. >> good to be here.
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with less than 50 days left before the midterm elections, a new poll is shows enthusiasm among voters is an all time high, higher in fact than any other midterm at the ceremony paint. 64% of voters reporting higher interest in the midterms and higher than the enthusiasm than the 2018 elections which broke turnout records. it is also not much less than where nbc's poll has been two months before presidentialle elections and keeping our eye on that. and from politics down here ps, to duty up there. new images from the james webb telescope capturing the distant planet of neptune and rings in a whole new light. nasa's voyager two sent pictures in 1989 but this is the first time using infrared technology, and it's producing what nasa calls extremely stable and precise image quality from the remote dark region of the outer solar system. by the way, it took just a couple of minutes for the
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high-powered telescope to capture the planet up close. another 20 minutes to take a wide view, revealing the galaxies that lie behind it. yes, a galaxy, far, far away. that's going to do it for this hour. make sure to join us for chris jan sing reports every weekday 1:00 even time right here on msnbc. yasmin vossoughian is in the chair for katy tur next. chair for katy tur next. make it. now ports can know where every piece of cargo is. and where it's going. (dock worker) right on time. (vo) robots can predict breakdowns and order their own replacement parts. (foreman) nice work. (vo) and retailers can get ahead of the fashion trend of the day with a new line tomorrow. with a verizon private 5g network, you can get more agility and security. giving you more control of your business. we call this enterprise intelligence. from the network america relies on.
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hey, everybody. good to be with you. i'm yasmin vossoughian in for katy tur. former president trump dealing with back-to-back legal troubles and we're going to get into the latest. u.s. district judge aileen cannon has amended her order appointing a special master to comply with a ruling from a federal appeals court. a three-judge panel of the u.s. court of appeals for the 11th circuit ruled in favor of the d.o.j., granting them access to classified documents that were seized at the former president's mar-a-lago residence. they issued a harsh rejection of both trump's legal argument and judge cannon's ruling. remember, federal prosecutors argued that quote the district court likely erred in exercising its jurisdiction, when judge cannon ruled the classified documents were offlimits. while awaiting a special master review. it is simple. a two word response. the court of appeals saying we agree. the appeals court forcefully rejected the

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