tv Alex Wagner Tonight MSNBC September 22, 2022 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT
is all too familiar. >> our thoughts are with the people of puerto rico, and everyone affected by this devastating storm tonight. and on that note, i wish you all a good and safe night. from all of our colleagues across the networks that nbc news, thank you for staying up late. i will see you at the end of tomorrow. >> do you remember when donald trump and his allies were very very concerned about the mishandling of classified information? it was the thing they cared about almost more than anything else. much of trump's presidential campaign was promised on the idea that his appointment could not be trusted, because she mishandled classified information. in fact, trump's campaign was so concerned about the proper handling of government documents, they believed hillary clinton should go to jail. >> if i win, i am going to instruct my attorney general to get a special prosecutor to
look into your situation. >> it's just awfully good that someone with the temperament of donald trump is not in charge of the law in our country. >> because he would be in jail. >> should hillary clinton be in jail? yes or no, mayor giuliani? you know her. you are a prosecutor. >> if i did what she did, i would be in jail. >> if i did a tent -- a tenth -- of what she did, i would be in jail today. >> remember the crowds at the republican national convention just thundering over and over again, lock her up? what they were actually saying was lock her up for mishandling classified information. once donald trump did become president, he set about trying to actually do it, to put hillary clinton in jail because of her supposed mishandling of classified documents.
on multiple occasions, he told top justice department officials to prosecute clinton. he ordered his white house counsel, don mcgahn, to get the justice department to prosecute her. according to the new book from journalist peter baker and susan glasser, trump not only repeatedly pressured his attorneys general to prosecute clinton, but told don mcgahn that if they win, he would prosecute her himself as president. and until the white house counsel that had to explain to trump that presidents, no, they cannot prosecute people. that's not how any of this works. donald trump campaigned on it. he tried to do it as president. and here we are, more than a year and a half after he left office and don't trump is still at it. after he's no good, very bad
today of legal developments yesterday, trump went on sean hannity show to vent about all the ways in which he has been mistreated. and hear trump tell it last night -- with hillary clinton was accused of, having classified documents in her possession, was so bad, it might have been her emails the fbi was looking for when they swooped down on florida beach club last month. seriously, that is what he said. >> i pointed out hillary clinton, which is, i guess, the closest case in modern history, that this mirrors your case -- and it shouldn't, for example, 33,000 deleted emails -- we talked about hunter biden's laptop. >> so, do we have equal justice in this country? >> it's very unfair. it's a very unfair situation. there's also a lot of speculation because of what they did, the severity of, the fbi coming in and rating mar-a-lago -- where they're looking for the hillary clinton emails that were deleted? but they are around someplace. were they looking for the -- >> had it -- >> no, no, they may be saying, they may have thought that it was in their. and a lot of people said the only thing that would give the kind of severity that they showed by actually coming in and rating with many, many people, is the hillary clinton
failed -- >> that's the only thing that would've justify the fbi searching donald trump's home. it's not anything that trump did. but something that hillary clinton did. that is how bad what she did was. and no, i am not going to try to explain why donald trump thinks the fbi wheeze looking for hillary clinton's emails at his house. now despite years of trying biden trump, hillary clinton was never prosecuted for having classified documents for a very simple reason. she didn't actually have any documents marked classified in her possession. but boy, it is clear that donald trump thinks that anyone who did to do something that brazen and all full, like, say, if someone had stashed 100 highly classified documents in the basement of his beach club -- well, that person should definitely get the book thrown at him. lock him up. wait a second. and by the way, in addition to his head spinning discussion of hillary clinton's emails last, night trump once again, throughout the idea that the fbi planted evidence when they searched his club. this is something he has said
repeatedly over the last few weeks. while today, a special master in the case, has essentially called trump's bluff. today, judge raymond dearie today gave trump's legal team eight days to state officially, in a court filing, whether the fbi planted any evidence. basically, it's put up or shut up time for your client's claims. this comes after last night's ruling from the 11th circuit court of appeals, allowing the justice department access to the hundred or so classified documents seized from mar-a-lago, documents trump had been trying to keep the justice department from using its investigation. i think we have all been expecting trump's team to appeal that ruling to the supreme court any minute now. but here is something else to consider on that front. the 11th circuit roulette ruling was a pretty stinging reputed to the trump avoided district judge, eileen cannon, who had rule in trump's favor, who had ruled that the justice department could not even
looking at any of the documents seized from trump's house. and today, that to district judge amended her order to comply with the 11th circuit reversal. so, now her order no longer says the doj can not look at those 100 classified documents. when questioned legal ask sports are now questioning asking is, does that mean there's no reason for trump to appeal to the supreme court even if he wants to? is this done? and if so, what does the justice department do now? going forward, will they have unfettered access to these classified documents they found at mar-a-lago? what will their investigation look like? after all, don't trump him self has spent years telling us, mishandling classified documents is a very, very, very serious crime. joining us now is david bill, executive editor of the new yorker. com. david, great to see, you thanks for joining me. >> so, what is the justice department doing right now? now that they have these hundred documents that they can use, i think law enforcement officials will investigate the hell out of this. they want to now finally go
question tons of people and law enforcement -- that they had some sort of leads that they want to pursue. one of them, and this is not confirmed, not confirmed -- that they have a lead that trump was possibly showing some of these classified documents the people at mar-a-lago, very reckless handling of -- >> and they probably dovetails with a criminal investigation here to, right? that is not something a former president or any person can do, show classified documents to random mar-a-lago staff. >> yes, exactly. so, this was not confirmed. it is a lead they want to pursue. and judge cannon's orders block them from wanting to do that. because they -- based on those 100 classified documents, to question a witness, while, well, you are shown a classified documents document, what do they say specifically? what country was it about? because they want to corroborate whether or not this was exactly the truth. -- investigate, investigate, investigate. my sense is that there is no
decision yet on indicting trump, in terms of classified information, it would definitely not be until after the midterm elections. >> do you sense that -- i mean, there is this will he or won't he appeal question, as far as the prim court. do you think that -- i don't know if it is legal limbo. i am not a legal analyst. but do you think that that at all circumscribes the justice department's actions in this hour? >> i don't think. so i think that once they got this big win, that was a very surprising win from the 11th circuit. i think they have already started investigating the case. and again, a positive note here -- this is opinion by three judges, two of them appointed by president trump. they're young tourists. they are very conservative --
judge granted judge brasher. they joined an obama appointed judge to basically just demolish, dismiss these claims from trump that he can wave his hand or think and declassify things. these are clearly classified documents, they are marked classified, they belong to the u.s. government, and of discussion. so, he could do it. i don't know. it's a strange thing that judge aileen cannon did, removing that. she was supposed to wait and see if they were going to take it to the supreme court and she just immediately amended her order to say, you can use the 100. >> possibly because it was such a judicial thrashing from the 11th circuit. the other thing that the 11th circuit did was say, in no uncertain terms, that the fbi's investigation was inextricably intertwined with the intelligence community's assessment. that is the office of the director of national intelligence. that is doing this sort of separate in tandem review to see how much this compromises our national security. what you expect is going on on that front, as the doj now has access to these 100 classified documents? >> they are doing a review, i think, the intelligence committee -- again, that part was stopped as well. judge cannon's order was sort of vague but there was a decision in the intelligence community to stop the review. where the human sources compromised during this period? that donald documents went on
trump's basement? where they're sort of special hacking that had been used to get information or listening devices? they want to see if there was damage as a result of the way he handled these documents. and this is all very important. was he showing them to random people? was there actual damage? a human source may have been killed. again, none of this is confirmed. but all of that strengthens a prosecution.
you want to tell a jury a story. you want to say, it was not just that these documents were sitting in a basement. it was that they caused real harm. >> right. >> and so these are critical things. i want to praise these two trump judges, a term that some legal experts have used is that the judiciary, the judges, are the last wall. many trump judges stood up and rejected his false claims in 2020, a voter fraud. and judge cannon did the wrong thing and i think issued a series of partisan, pro trump rulings -- >> i think we were worried that this was something that we discussed last week, the trump -ification of the judiciary. we have a policing rebuttal to that concept in the ruling from the 11th circuit. i got to ask you, in that vein, raymond dearie, special master, he is a judge appointed by
ronald reagan, a republican from long ago -- but a conservative. he has been checking trump in his claims in realtime. right? he began this whole special master process by asking questions about the classification, which trump lawyers basically punted on. but now he is asking -- he is pressing trump's lawyers to say, is there anything in this trench of documents that might have been planted by the fbi? is there anything in this 11,000 document hall that wasn't at mar-a-lago that could have been from someone else? how meaningful is it that someone like kyrie is able to effectively check the veracity of these claims that trump is putting all of a right-wing media and on the internet? >> it is terrific. because a trial -- and it is a really serious thing, you and i kind of being prosecutors prosecuted, it would mean we go to jail.
a trial is a fact finding exercise. can you prove that this occurred beyond a reasonable doubt? and so judge dearie is simply saying to trump's lawyers, you are making these wild claims publicly that these were planted. prove it. send me a list of which documents were planted. present that in a motion and we will go through this piece by piece and see if you are actually telling the truth or not. so, it is great. and yes, he is -- a reigning an appointed -- i just want to be hopeful that there are good consulting judges and two on 11 circuits he only judge who is has really judge done ju > yes. we will see. >> we shall see. a federal courthou wa one big thing in common.they ars representing donald j trump. but next, mark caputo joins us with new evolutions about republican connections to a florida-based air charter company that flew migrants from texas to martha's vineyard. stay with us. florida-based air charte company that flew migrants fro texas to martha's vineyard stay with us some days, it felt like asthma was holding me back. but asthma has taken enough. so i go triple... with trelegy. with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler,... it's the only once-daily treatment for adults that takes triple action against asthma symptoms. trelegy helps make breathing easier,... improves lung function,... and lasts for 24 hours.
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private chartered flight company called vertol systems, or at least it used to be the website. the web design is a little dated and it's got a lot of pictures have big fancy looking helicopters. under a section titled unique qualifications, there is exactly one unique qualification. quote, the vsc is the only civil company currently operating russian helicopters in the united states. good for. i say that this is what the website used to look like, because if you go to that same website today, you get this. it looks like this domain isn't connected to a website yet. thanks to the good folks over at the internet archive, we know that the website for that aviation company, vertol systems appears to have gone dark sometime last friday, which is important. because that was right around the time it first became public that vertol systems was the company that got paid by the state of florida to run the governor ron desantis's stunt of flying venezuelan migrants
from texas to massachusetts using human beings to stick it to the libs. governor desantis's administration is currently refusing to release the details of a 12 million dollar contract has entered into with vertol systems. but the daily beast reports that florida paid vertol systems over double the market price to fly migrants from san antonio to martha's vineyard last week. why is this mysterious little flight company getting so much money from florida tax payers? -- it probably had something to do with the fact that vertol since has numerous times the republican politician in the state of florida. according to msnbc's marc caputo, -- a guy named larry keith, is now in charge of immigration policy for the desantis administration. and keefe's former law partner, who also represented the company, is florida republican
congressman matt gates. the company, again, vertol systems, also contributed to richard corcoran, another desantis ally and former secretary of education, who played a major role in overall in florida civics education standards to make them more palatable to the christian right. vertol systems also gave money to the campaign of florida trump -- appropriations committee, a committee that helped secure money for desantis's migrant stunt. governor desantis wanted this political play to keep him in the national spotlight. but he might not have anticipated how much that spotlight would also shine a light on his republican friends and donors and cronies. joining us now is marc caputo, national reporter for nbc news
digital, who has been covering a lot of the story for us. marc, it's always good to see you. thanks for this reporting. let me first just start, as our man in florida, how is all of this playing for ron desantis? he's up for reelection as a governor. there is a large immigrant population in florida. venezuelans, cubans, many of whom are migrants who at one point might have sought asylum for political reasons -- is this working for him? >> i don't know the answer to that question. we are in a polarized society, we are in a polarized state. i would like to see more polling about. it might surprise you, but when you talk to republicans, they think ron desantis is doing a great job. when we talk to democrats, they think he's doing a terrible job,
and a lot of independents are focusing on other things. i think a lot of this depends on how this is messaged and handled going forward, and also what the facts are when they go out, or when they come out. as you pointed out, we have asked for the contract everybody has asked for the contract. we have a very good, generous, public records law in florida. it has not been honored by the desantis administration. many counties meaning counties would probably have to sue -- there's been a problem of stonewalling by desantis's administration. but if you also look at at it from the perspective, the more this is talked about in desantis world, the more they think they are winning on it. and maybe they are, right maybe they're wrong. but it is sitting on a huge
problem. and if you look at the polling, immigration generally favors republicans when it comes to public opinion. so, as i said, it's too early now to really tell. we are in a polarized state, and a polarized society. so, i would wait to see on prognosticating of the exact effects. >> i will say, desantis is crowing about this on fox news, and as you said, republicans everywhere are saying that this is a great move by him. but the fact is, let's start with the facts -- vertol systems took its website down. do we think that's indicative of anything? they've been forthcoming with information as reporters have been asking for it? >> oh, gosh, no. as you pointed out, and as i wrote today, vertol systems got one point $6 million for two flights, one of which did not happen. we have no idea, really, what
happened to that money, outside of the fact that roughly 50 migrants were flown over from san antonio, texas, to martha's vineyard. the state program that this was authorized under said it was for unauthorized aliens -- that is a quote -- from this state. but they did not get them from this state. they got him from texas. that's not with the losses, that's not with the budget says, that authorize this. in addition, these migrants were not unauthorized aliens when you talk to the lawyers. they said these were asylum seeking migrants, mostly, if not all, venezuelan. and therefore, they were authorized to be in the united states. so, a program for unauthorized aliens to be removed from florida wound up enriching some company based out in the panhandle, an air charter
company, to remove authorized aliens from texas, and take them to martha's vineyard. so, we are trying to figure out the logic in that a little more. but so far, we are not getting a holistic of answers in the way of understanding what happens. >> not only are they flying migrants in the wrong sort of immigration category out of the wrong state. they are also doing it at, i believe, double the market rate. that is another point -- the daily beast is reporting that the flight to massachusetts was at literally double the rate for charter flights. and then, of course, there is the flight to delaware, which gets scheduled, for which vertol systems was paid 1 million dollars, that was empty. >> we don't know. the problem is, we don't exactly know what they are doing with the money. understand to, the best of our ability, in having read other media accounts, listened to what migrants have told all the reporters, and what the lawyers have told m some agents of the state kind different vendors, different agents of the state, so to speak. they were given food -- now these were fast food night, th, at who knows what other money was use. there was transportation provided to the airport and then ultimately there was air travel that was provided from san antonio, ultimately, to martha's vineyard. airfare from the company chartered know. should know and one way to find that out would be to look at the contract, have someone answers to basic questions, and that is just not happening yet. and when you step back and you looked like, okay, well, who are the different people affiliated with his program? larry keith was dubbed by the tallahassee democrat as the public safety czar for governor desantis and his portfolio as you mentioned is over immigration and he was the lawyer for this company. so, we would certainly like to know, did he recommend this company? and what was his relationship
with his company when it was under discussion. again, no answers. >> they are certainly a number of republican ties to this plot that make you think, maybe it is just lightly political. marc caputo, national porter for nbc news digital, thanks as always for you time and reporting, marc. >> think you. >> coming up, three high powered attorneys. you can see them right here. they emerge from the d. c. federal courthouse today. and they all represent former president donald trump. so, why were they there? that is next. -- u.s. ambassador to the un, linda thomas-greenfield, joins me to discuss historic protests for women's rights. and much more. we will be right back.
>> these are scenes from inside iran over the past few days. people out on the streets of the capital city, clapping and shouting in farsi, from kurdistan to iran, oppression against women. in the northern city of sari, women throwing his cards into a bonfire outside city hall. hundreds of miles to the south, a woman in the city square of kerman, her head uncovered and a crowd cheering her on, as someone helps her cut off her ponytail, while demonstrations and demonstrators clashed with police in the street. protests like these are spreading throughout iran for a seventh day, despite a crackdown by security forces that have killed at least nine people and injured dozens more.
iranians are experiencing a near total internet blackout and apps like instagram and whatsapp, when the demonstrators used to organize protests, have widespread outages. the protests were sparked by the death of a 22-year-old woman. she died last week while she was in the custody of iran's morality police, who enforce iran's ultraconservative dresscoat that has been in place since the 1979 revolution. she was detained allegedly for having some hair visible under her head scarf. police say mahsa amini was taken to a station for justification and education. a few hours later, her family was told that he was hospitalized and in a coma
after suffering a heart attack or stroke. three days later, she died. eyewitnesses claim that masa amin was beaten by police on her way to the station. the police deny any abused and iran's revolutionary guard court once a judiciary to prosecute people for spreading fake news. iranian state tv released this edited video that appears to show mahsa amini in the police station talking to an officer, who points to her clothing, before she collapses. iran's president, ebrahim raisi, who -- as ordinary vest against an into her death, and into the country's judiciary. but there is significant distrust in the govern civility to figure out what happened to mahsa amini. meanwhile, the un's acting human rights chief is calling for an impartial investigation. and today, the u.s. treasury sanctioned iran's morality police and -- condemning them for abuse and -- and the violation of the rights of peaceful protesters. joining me now to talk about the situation in iran and much more is linda thomas-greenfield, u.s. ambassador to the united nations. madam ambassador, thank you for joining us on this busy, busy week. >> thank you for having me. >> let start with the sanctions that we're now today. there are so many sanctions on
iran are present. what is the goal here in terms of really moving the needle? and in supporting these protesters? >> first and foremost, it is to hold accountable those individuals in iran responsible for committing human rights violations. and this is truly a horrific violation. the killing of mahsa amini, the blocking of individuals from their ability to process protest in the streets -- every iranian should have the right to protest and every woman in iran should have the right to where what she wants to wear without having to themselves to these morality police. >> for people who don't follow iran closely, i think it bears mentioning that protests like this do not happen in this country. the last time we saw something like this, widespread protests, was in 2009, 13 years ago. does the u.s. see these protests as meaningful or indicative of a restive population and maybe something more greater down the line? >> absolutely. people are frustrated. they are angry.
their ability to be themselves, that has been suppressed by this government and by the morality police. so, this is significant, that this is happening at this time. >> it is a time of protests around the world. and there are large-scale protests also unfolding in russia due to president putin's recent announcements. you were in town for the un general assembly. i know that sergei lavrov is there, your russian counterpart. you announced, i think, before the general assembly even started -- you said there are no plans at this time to have meetings with the russians. they have not indicated that they have interest in diplomacy. can you explain the strategy there a little bit? >> first and foremost, the russians need to understand that this is not going to be business as usual for them.
they have attacked their neighbor. they have attacked the core -- the soul -- of the un charter. they have attacked all of our values. so, we don't want to treat them, even though they are a permanent member of the security council, they are not behaving with the responsibility that we would expect of a permanent member of the security council. so we, until they can show, until they withdraw their troops from ukraine, they don't deserve to have any recognition that things are normal. >> is there talk on the security council of taking any punitive measures against the russians? >> we certainly have already. they have been roundly condemned. that condemnation continues. we are stronger than we ever were before in terms of the european union, nato. all of this was not part of putin's plan. i think he thought that we
would start to fray around the edges very, very quickly. and we are much stronger as an alliance now than we ever were. and that alliance has really imposed strong sanctions on the russians and they're feeling the sanctions. >> i just wonder, because you are all in this conclave this week, have you talked to your indian or chinese counterparts about this? because in recent weeks, prime minister modi and president jinping have come out and been critical of russia. are you following up on any of those criticisms with your chinese and indian counterparts at the united nations? it >> it just happened -- week that both china and india, their presidents express their strong concerns to the russians. we are in the council for the first time today. and i thought that their statements today were very measured. they were not in any way pro russia. so, again -- >> that is as good as being anti russia?
the fact that they are not pro russia? >> they certainly did not condemn russia in the same way that other members of the counseled it. but they certainly expressed their concerns about the consequences of this unprovoked war, on ukrainian people. >> when you talk about that unprovoked war, how do you think of what putin is doing? we talk about needless, senseless death, both russian and ukrainian. there are people who are comparing -- i think it is the international criminal court prosecutor, karim khan, he spoke to the security council prosecutor today and said that echoes of nuremberg should be heard today. should we be thinking of vladimir putin in the way that we should be thinking about adolf hitler? >> -- the beginnings of what hitler was doing. he has built a strategy around destroying a country,
destroying a people. human rights violations have been committed. sexual violence against women. people have been tortured. we have seen signs that war crimes are being committed. and we are working with ukrainians, with the international court of justice, the icc, to collect evidence, so that when the time comes, those who committed these crimes are accountable, and we have the evidence. we are ready. >> so you are hearing the echoes of nuremberg to, it sounds like? >> we are hearing the echoes of gross human rights violations, torture, the same kinds of things that we heard previously. >> linda thomas-greenfield, u. s. ambassador to the united nations. what a time to be convening the body. thank you so much for your time. >> thank you. >> much more ahead this hour, including possible reasons by three lawyers who all represented donald trump walked out of the federal courthouse in washington d. c. earlier today. stay with us.
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conservative activists ginni thomas, wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas, has agreed to meet voluntarily with the committee for a closed-door interview. and i'm sure the committee will have a lot to ask her about. ginni thomas reportedly exchanged text messages with trump chief of staff mark meadows shortly after the election, urging him to help overturn its results. according to cnn, after the election was called for biden, thomas rode the former staff chief of staff, quote, help this great president stand firm, mark! the majority knows biden and the left is attempting the greatest heist of our history. thomas also reportedly emailed an aide to republican congressman jim banks of indiana, saying she would not support his republican study committee group until she saw its members, quote, out in the streets. thomas also emailed 29 hours on a state lawmakers, urging them to overturn the election results, emailing to say that they had the, quote, power to fight back against fraud and
ensure that a clean slate of electors is chosen. for the record, those clean slates of elections electors were, of course, fraudulent impersonators. if that was all not enough, thomas try the very same ploy with wisconsin state lawmakers. or outreach even extended, according to the washington post, the trump lawyer john eastman, who supported the pressure campaign on vice president mike pence. and after all the behind the scenes maneuvering and cajoling, ginni thomas, the wife of us sitting supreme court justice, attended the january 6th rally where, of course, donald trump urged the crowd to march to the capital and stop the democratic process. like i, said it will be a lot to talk to ginni thomas about. meanwhile, in a separate investigation into january 6th, this one courtesy of the department of justice, something curious happened today outside the federal d. c. courthouse. eagle hyde nbc reporter saw
three trump lawyers leaving the courthouse, around the same time as the justice department 's lee january 6th prosecutor. we do not know why trump's lawyers were there. but jacqui alameda of the washington post reports tonight, for a person familiar with the matter, they were there, president in their capacity, -- we are presenting the january 6th investigation. joining us now is ryan goodman, former special counsel at the permit events, kawhi didn't even have just security, and law professor at nyu. great to see you, professor. first of, all of ginni thomas willingly going to meet with the january 6th committee -- are you surprised? are you are shocked as i am? >> i am terribly shocked. >> you are totally shocked is different than my totally shocked. but tell me why. >> she signed a letter that said that to republican members of the committee should actually be thrown out of the republican caucus because she thought that the committee was so corrupt, in her view. so, so combative, so allergic to this committee, saying some really testy words about the committee. one would think that she would not come forward voluntarily. but she seems to have made that choice.
>> do you think there is a legal incentive at the root of all this? that he would rather go willingly than be subpoenaed? >> i think so. on the other hand, she could maybe fight a subpoena, because time is on her side, with respect to after the midterms, the committee does its final report and then has 30 days to set up business. >> right. >> so, it doesn't exactly explain, it that she would have that legal jeopardy hanging over her. but maybe it's also the embarrassment of a subpoena for congress, that could be in force with a contempt resolution from congress. and so that's a stain. >> it's almost a bit on the midterms as well, right? if the democrats keep the house, the january 6th interest continues. a contempt of congress citation could basically -- steve bannon, that could be ginni thomas's fate. if republicans take the house, then, of course, it's a different story entirely. but she has got to figure out who she thinks is gonna have the upper hand after the auction. >> that's right. >> let me just ask you, in terms of the trump lawyers at the courthouse -- and i know, this is all a guessing game to some degree. but do you believe --
what do you think this could be related to? is it trump? is it executive privilege? we or do we see the meeting of this mines? >> so, if you think of everybody who is kind of in the crosshairs of the justice department, in this we summons reporting from new york times, is that herschmann, the white house lawyer who gave fantastic testimony, to the january six committee in terms of credible testimony, very compelling -- the new york times says that trump's lawyers were trying to block him asserting executive privilege because he has been handed a gradually subpoena from the d. c. court. there they are, to have the people that are mentioned in the new york times report, walking out of that courtroom, are the ones that were the interlocutors of herschmann, trying to block him, and the new york times report says that he said to them,, well if why did you get a court order to block me. then maybe i wouldn't testify. there's this kind of tantalizing into the new york times story, which is that his testimony has been delayed. so, i think that's the most likely, that we are in the realm of speculation. >> and how do you like the privilege claims on this? >> i think it is pretty clear that they would be dead in the water in the d. c. circuit. there is the d. c. circuit court of appeals decision that is so squarely on point. and it says, you cannot best assert executive privilege when you have a grand jury testimony calling for you -- in that case, it was an
incumbent deputy white house counsel. so, even more so, there would have been interests on the side of the executive privilege for the incumbent deputy white house counsel. here we have a former white house lawyer, an incumbent president, we're -- waved executive privilege for the january 6th inquiry. so, it is really remarkable. it's almost like they are setting themselves up for another embarrassing loss, that this is what they are trying to do. >> is it delay? we know from the january 6th committee hearing that eric herschmann has a lot of insider information regarding the potting around january 6th, the attempt to overturn the results of the 2020 election. >> yeah. so, i think it's delay, delay. he also seems to get that. so, the times reporting is that he says to them, you are not going to put me between yourselves and the justice department. and he obviously cooperated with the january six committee. and he has bombshell testimony that, i think, he would be a star witness -- let's put it that way -- if there is an indictment coming out of the justice department. >> okay. if we are talking about star witnesses, the big question is, i think, vice president pence. i think we all understand how farfetched at one point that
seemed. by the fact that ginni thomas is now willingly testifying in front of the committee, do you think there is a chance that vice president pence cooperates with the committee? i believe that pete aguilar, one of the committee members, said today, there is no information that we have received since our hearings that is helpful to our investigation. it would make the most sense for the former vice president to come speak with us. and we are still hopeful that that can happen. >> in a certain sense, i never thought i would love to see the day we're ginni thomas would live to -- >> yeah, exactly -- >> so, i shouldn't discount the idea of pants. pence, we think, may have given a greenlight to these people around him, his most senior aides, to cooperate with the committee -- >> marc short? >> marc short, greg jacob. so, at a certain point you could imagine that he could also see his duty as coming before this committee, that has its establishes reputation and credibility in a way that, i think, would be appealing to him.
and it is a space, in a certain sense, for the people that have come forward, to tell their truths. >> i will say, there was, in unrelated testimony, a secret service special agent elizabeth glee the, she's one of the top secret agents on the vice presidents detail. she was asked today about whether, in her 13 years of service, she had ever had to protect, in this case, the vice president, comes close to danger as mike pence did on january 6th, and her response was no. that seems meaningful. if you are mike pence and you hear your service detail saying that about the hazard, the danger, that you were in, i just wonder if that moves the needle in terms of his decision-making. but also, legally, what does that do to the case that is being built by the doj, as far as the actions of certain individuals on january 6th? >> it dovetails with his chief of staff's testimony that also said that he had anticipated there might be serious threats events the vice president's life, because trump would turn against him on january 6th.
so, if that is the case, at least in terms of the criminal case that could be mounted against trump, one of the clearest cases is, the pressure campaign on pence. because if he knew that the pressure campaign on pence was included in that, a use of violence, or the implicit threat of violence, as well as that it wasn't within pence's authority to do anything but count the votes, then i think that is one of the lowest hanging fruit's, let's put it that way, for the justice department, in that you have people like this coming forward -- i think that must have put something in the mind of mike pence. where you honestly think, look, these are the people around me who protected me, who served me, they have come forward. they have told the truth. public. and this is also a ve me coun events and co-editor in chief of just you is a myth that's a night. >> thank you. >> up next, and i got lined republican running for a house seat appears to have lied. and now he is paying a political price. well, really? that is actually happening. stay with us.
-- yesterday, the ap got ahold of majeski's military records, which indicated that, majeski, quote, never deployed to afghanistan. it's actual military service appears to just be a six month stint helping to load planes at an airbase in qatar, a longtime u.s. ally, very far from what most people would call a tough combat tour. both the cook political report and politico rated this race as a toss-up. republicans thought they could win it and we're putting their full weight behind majewski until today. axios reports that the national republican congressional committee has canceled all of its ad buys for jerry majeski. i'm not sure if lying about your military service is a red line for the republican party or they just decided it was a hurdle that majewski would be overcome. but this is very good news for democrats marcy captor and democrats in house overall. that does it for us tonight. we will see you again tomorrow.
now it's time for the last word with ayman mohyeldin, in for lawrence. good evening, my friend. >> alex, it's good to see. here i was gonna say quickly, i don't think republicans have any more red lines when they talk about how the field candidates. anything goes when you talk about these republicans. >> nonetheless, jarred majeski doesn't have access to -- i'm sure democrats in ohio celebrating. >> we'll see how that turns. out alex, it's good to see my. friend thank you so. much we're gonna talk about democracy tonight because the r of history is long, but it bends towards justice, and it's good to remember that quote tonight because there have been many days in recent memory that it has not felt like we are bending towards justice. joe biden wins an election, donald trump and republicans just can't claim he didn't. trump incites an insurrection at the capitol, five weeks later, he's acquitted by republican senator
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