tv The Mehdi Hasan Show MSNBC September 25, 2022 8:00pm-9:00pm PDT
bipartisan panel is set to return for a blockbuster presentation this wednesday at 1 pm eastern. >> we've been telling the big story, which is this was a unorganized, premeditated, deliberated against the vice president and the congress to overthrow the 2020 presidential election and i think the public understands the basic elements of the story what we're going to do on wednesday spill in those details that have come to the attention of the committee over the last five or six weeks. >> earlier this week, chairman bennie thompson said, quote, unless something else develops, at this point, this hearing is the final hearing. just last, night committee vice chair liz cheney told a crowd at the texas tribune festival that she doesn't think this week's hearing will in fact be the last. she shared new information about what the committee obtained from the secret service around the time of the insurrection. >> we have received very significant production of information, material from the secret service. >> not just texts.
>> the text messages themselves, in many cases, are gone. >> interesting. >> but there are other forms of investigation, like teams messages and emails, other forms of communications. we have received probably about 800,000 pages, at least, of material. >> now, the hearing comes just after the committee secured one of its most high-profile interviews yet, ginni thomas, wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas is expected to sit down with the panel in the coming weeks. thomas left a prolific paper trail connecting her to trump's fake elector scheme. she was also in close contact with trump lawyer and blue prank architect john eastman. but wait, there's a lot more. also this week, a federal judge ruled that the committee can subpoena the phone records of kelly ward, the head of arizona's republican party. of course, ward and her husband were among the 14 fake electors subpoenaed by the committee earlier this year.
so, even if this week's hearing is the committees last, it is clear that we will still be learning a lot more about the plot to overturn the election for a long time to come. let's bring in democratic congressman jim himes of connecticut. he sits on the house intelligence committee. congressman, thank you so much for joining us this evening. this hearing, as we just heard there, maybe the last time the public at least hears from the select committee before the midterm elections. what outstanding questions do you have? and what case do you think they should be making to the american people on wednesday? >> well, thanks for having me, ayman. and a couple things needs to happen now. first, the historical record needs to be painted with a great deal of specificity, right? remember that a year ago there were people making the case
this was just a riot that got out of hand, and gosh, nobody knew nothing. we now know because of the remarkable work of the committee that this was actually a plan that had been thought about in advance and as ludicrous as it was, had a legal theory behind it. it had an awful lot of people working on it. and i should point out that, you know, apparently we will hear from ginni thomas. and perhaps others who are looking to salvage some semblance of a reputation out of this. so, you know, a lot depends on what more comes down the pipe. the next thing i would say and that is really critical here is that a lot of the hope of the coup attempt lay on crazy ideas like the notion that the vice president could just stop the count. that is why the passage of the electoral count act and the house and in the senate and turning that into law is really essential because we really need to clear up some of the ambiguity that allow these crazy theories to bubble up. >> it was an act that only got nine republican votes in the house, so it tells you where the gop's head space is on trying to shore up our democracy. let me if i can, sir, play for you what congressman jamie raskin had to say just this morning on meet the press in
regard to an allegation that was made by denver riggelman, who is a former republican lawmaker who served on the committees staff. he claimed that the white house switchboard connected to a riders phone during the capitol riot. watch this. >> that is one of thousands of details that obviously the committee is aware of. to me, it's interesting, but much less interesting on the fact that donald trump told the crowd and the public, you need to fight like heck. >> just to be clear here. while raskin does acknowledge the committee is aware of that call, there's still a lot we don't know, including you placed the call, even if they were in a position of authority or where it fits into the broader investigation. but what is your reaction, just to that revelation as we know about it? >> it's really hard to say. denver is a good friend of mine. we traveled a lot together when he was in congress. i like him a lot. he's also selling a book right
now. there is a tendency to try to tease concepts that might help in that process. so, it's really hard to know that. what we do know and what is really important here maybe that means something. mark meadows, chief of staff, somehow we sort of let him get away without telling us everything that he knows. if there's one guy the white house who almost certainly kind of knows what all the pieces are, it's mark meadows. as you'll recall, he testified a little bit and they didn't want to testify. so, the other big piece here that needs to happen of course, if the republicans take control, heaven forbid, of the house in the next election, this committee will certainly be disbanded by early january of next year. the other critical thing here is that they need to take this as far as they can. and then make sure that every last fact, every shred of evidence, everything is available to the department of justice. because as you know the department of justice is undertaking their own investigation right now. >> speaking of mark meadows and also the revelation that ginni thomas has reached an agreement with the committee to speak to
them, what do you think the committee should find out from her regarding her alleged involvement in this election subversion effort? what would you want the committee to pursue in that interview with ginni thomas, which would most likely happen after wednesday? >> the key question here is who, and from donald trump on down to rudy giuliani, to city powell, to the hold clown car of characters, who knew that they were committing fraud? right? that they're fraudulently making the case that the election should be overturned. i do think that ginni thomas can probably qasem light on that. because apparently she was calling all sorts of people. for somebody to say, gosh, i thought the election was corrupt and therefore i said that. that is a big huge or legal problem, right? if ginni thomas can shed light on people or groups, you know, whoever it might be, who knew that this was fraudulent, but pursued it anyway.
that is when you start getting into the realm of criminal charges. >> let me if i can switch gears to the department of justice's investigation into the ex presidents improper storage of classified documents at mar-a-lago. you sit on the intelligence committee, which in the wake of that search was informed that there would be a damage assessment by the director of national intelligence. that review recently resumed after the appeals court reversed this bizarre judge, judge's ruling, out of florida. wind does your committee expect to receive a classified briefing on that damage assessment? can you shed any light on where this stands? >> it should be very soon. obviously, we are multi week delay because of this outrageous decision on the part of the judge, which as you pointed out, the appeals court overruled. but there has been a multi week delay now in the ability of the director of national intelligence to do the damage assessment. but that as you might imagine, is a very high priority right now. why? not just because congress needs to know, but because we are --
any of those materials to have put in danger a source, this could be anything from a person and a place islamabad or kabul or what have you, or given away technical information, that is life and death stuff. so, you can bet that the dni, the director of national intelligence, is putting all resources behind this and will have answer soon. >> very quickly, congressman, just because you brought it up earlier, the electoral reform act, do you believe it will pass both the senate and the house and have some kind of compromise between the two versions? >> i do think so. i heard they made good progress and the senate. i have less visibility into that. but as you pointed out, a tiny number of republicans voted for it. i just don't get that. this is something that is symmetrical. it wouldn't happen, but democrats could use this ambiguity against republicans. and so, my hope is that the senate moves and when that
happens, it will become law because we will pass it in the house with or without the support of republicans. >> congressman jim himes of connecticut, thank you so much for spending some of your evening with us tonight. >> thank you. >> next, the gop friendly company getting paid millions of dollars for ron desantis migrants as political props. make your home totally you. i did with wayfair. sometimes i'm a homebody. can never have too many pillows. sometimes i'm all business. wooo!
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has spent hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars to cruelly ship immigrants from texas to martha's vineyard and now we know those funds went to an air charter company that is owned by a major gop donor. nbc news reports that the president of vertol systems, inc. has contributed to republican causes, both individually and through his company in florida. vertol systems, inc. currently has a 12 million dollar contract with the state to ship migrants out of florida and it is already collected nearly one point $6 million, both for the flight to martha's vineyard, and a canceled flight to
delaware. is this the gop playbook nowadays, giving pick back too kickbacks to donors for treating donors badly? joining me now is the pulitzer prize-winning journalist and political analyst and the founder and director of projects -- maria, i would like to start with you. we're seeing republicans and the companies they are involved in, profit off of this exploitation of human lives. what does this say about our power structures within the republican establishment? to continue this notion of the othering of migrants and asylum seekers -- >> right. ayman, it is great to see you. look, this is in fact the most horrible kind of political stunt. i'm assuming that at some point in the future, this will be written about as one of the more disgusting moments in american political history, vis-à-vis the treatment of refugees. there have been many horrible moments in the last several
years, as you know. i am not surprised that there is any kickback, that there is money being made. you are exactly right. the centering of the conversation is that they are other. you know, they use a term that i never use, they call these people illegal. and therefore, that gives root to everything that is happening right now. and so, your question of like, well, how does it further the othering? we are seeing right now. here is what i think. there is a point at which things began to backfire. and i think that this is going to begin to happen for ron desantis. because people are just seeing it and the horror of it is just, this is what we have become? so, there is a thing in mexican spanish.
[speaking spanish] that means it completely backfires on him. and those same conservative latinos and latinos that voted for him in florida, could turn away from him. >> i guess, do you share that sense of it? he is facing two lawsuits and a criminal investigation out of texas. do you think we will actually see the governor and folks who participated in this political stunt, including vertol systems, inc., actually held accountable? >> you know, we have that same saying in minnesota. [speaking spanish] not only to the governor of the state, but to all of the republicans in office right now, who are talking very loudly to my community right here in south florida. but not when it comes to moments to actually show their support to the refugees that are trying to come here, that are fleeing political turmoil, economic turmoil, the largest humanitarian crisis in the western hemisphere. and also the least well-funded. they are of course going to be consequences. in the face of the lack of
action to support these folks, we are seeing that our local democratic leaders are stepping up to the plate. one of the lawsuits that you mentioned ayman is actually senator jason pizarro. the famous budget that he is talking about justifying this cruel and inhumane act towards these refugees, there's actually a lot of clauses in there that give way to showing why this was not appropriate. maria was talking about those terms, alienating and othering. that actually says unauthorized aliens. we know that these are -- that term should never be used. but still, these are refugee seekers who came here legally. and i think that loophole is not only going to help build a case against why this is not only immoral, but illegal. but it will have consequences for republicans up and down the take it. >> maria, this week, the sheriff's office said that it would investigate rhonda sentences stunt. and immediately afterwards, it started receiving numerous threatening calls and emails.
obviously, it is alarming to see this pattern happen because it comes just a month after we saw this rising threats against the fbi for their investigation into donald trump. what does that tell you about what we are seeing come out of parts of the republican party? >> you know what ayman, sometimes people say to me, oh my god, maria, you are for fixated on this story because your mexican and you are an immigrant, and you are just so immigrant-y and so mexican-y. what i am actually horrifies by is the capacity of inhumanity in this country to be exacted on people, who's only difference between me and you is that i wasn't born in this country. so, this is going to be, again, a moment when people look back and just say, how is it possible that this was allowed to happen?
there is something else, though. i want to reframe the narrative for one quick moment. because having spoken with so many migrants and refugees, seeing them in their worst moments, when they are tired and dirty. they haven't been able to shower. they're in a caravan or there in the jungle, et cetera. these are the gradients, hungriest, most determined, most independent, most americans spirited, most feminist people of all. and frankly, martha's vineyard won. they are the winners of the conversation. like new york city. that is how we need to re-frame it. we are welcoming these people into our communities because we know that they are the winners of the conversation. yes, we need to help them, absolutely. but we need to re-frame. they are not victims. they are not just political pawns to be thrown around. they have agency and we need to see them as such.
we need to welcome them with love. >> liz, we also know that florida officials and agencies used fake brochures to lure migrants to martha's vineyard. obviously, disinformation is rampant among communities of color, especially underserved, not english speaking communities, whether it's social media or elsewhere online. we are approaching the midterms. how do democrats rebuild trust among these communities when this is what state officials are doing to them? >> framing the narrative, like maria was saying, and beginning to show that on the right side of history, we have legislators at the local state and federal level, who are not just talking about my community and pandering to them. but are actually showing results by proposing legislation, by highlighting inhumane policies that already exist, and by showing the contribution of our community. that is what we do here. we talk about the history and culture and contributions of
latinos, since before the united states was even a country, our communities have been here. we need to continue to do that. and i'm sitting here in miami dade county, home to the largest venezuelan community in the country. and we need to continue to show these stories of our contributions. you can't go anywhere in this city are really anywhere in south florida without seeing -- without seeing plays and the arts and all types of services led by minnesota in migrants. and by -- really any community that is fleeing political, economic, health care, and other turmoil that we know miami has always been a haven for. those are the stories that we need to keep telling. we need to continue to show that our communities enrich this country. and that is how, not only democrats, but any politician who wants to do right by our community, is going to win the hearts and minds of the latino vote, which we know is so often talked about, anytime there are elections.
but that is what we want to hear from those representing us. >> we will see if ron desantis pays politically for this despicable stunt that he tried to pull off at the expense of migrants. thank you both so much. maria, please stick around. i do want to discuss your book, once i was you, after a short break. don't go anywhere. ♪ and power... ...is a very good thing. ♪ welcome to allstate where the safer you drive, ... the more you saveng. like rachel here how am i looking? the most cautious driver we got am i there? looking good (phone chimes) safe driving and drivewise saves you 40% with allstate peaceful state. full plate. wait, are you my blind date? dancing crew. trip for two. nail the final interview.
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you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. ♪ you can never have too much of a good thing. ♪ and power... ...is a very good thing. ♪ all right, so pulitzer prize -winning journalist maria hinojosa has adopted her memoir into a book for young readers called once i was you, finding my voice and passing the mic. the book follows her immigration journey from mexico to chicago, and eventually to new york city, where she pursued her ambitions and found herself in the process. and luckily for us, we get to hear her voice regularly on this show. maria is back with me. maria, i wanted to talk with you about this because you said you wanted young latinos to feel empowered by reading your book. talk to me about the importance
of youth, particularly children of immigrants, seeing themselves represented in your story. >> so, ayman look, you and i are very serious journalists. we take on very serious topics. when my agent said, i think you should write a book for kids, i was like, what? but then, you and i also work a lot with data, and we need to understand that from 2000 to 2010, the median age of latinos and latinas was about 18. so i thought, i'll write a book for 17, 16-year-olds. in fact, i ended up writing the book for ten year olds, the median age for latinos and latinas is 11. that means, in order for us to understand the future of democracy, we need to be talking to and about and with latinos and latinas. so, for me, i call myself a democracy junkie. i feel that way because i
wasn't born in this country and i became a citizen. that is why i take this so seriously and that is what i hope other kids will learn to do by reading the book. >> can i ask you really quickly broadly speaking, do you feel the media is making progress with the issue of representation that you want young children to read this book to feel that they still have the space and place in the american media landscape? >> yes. i mean, there's progress. i am on with you. i'm talking about this book. i wrote the book. it's been out there. it is making its way into the world. the problem is that overwhelmingly, when i talk to young people, and i'm still a professor, so i'm in with them all the time, surprisingly, they will still say, as a latinos and latinas, they still feel overwhelmingly invisible. and that is very dangerous. one, invisibility is actually bad for your mental health. and two, again, if we want our democracy to be strong, we need to have latinos and latinas
engaged in our democracy. why? because we are the second largest voting group in the united states. it's about owning our group and our power. that is what we try to do this every single day and i don't get tired. you know what? i think my next book is actually going to be, get this, a picture book for little ones! >> i love it. i can't wait to see it. i have two little kids, so i'll be happy to share that story with them. maria, always good to see you. thank you so much for coming on. best of luck. can't wait to see this book. the book, once i was you. up next, indiana state representative maureen bauer, an outspoken critic of her states abortion restrictions, joins me live to talk about a new judicial ruling that is blocking those restrictions from taking effect. you can never have too much of a good thing. ♪ and power... ...is a very good thing. ♪ before we begin,
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includinga broad pledge to restricting abortion access. they promised, quote, to protect the lives of unborn children and their mothers. meanwhile, access to abortion on the state level is changing constantly. just this week, a judge ruled that arizona can and force a near total ban on abortions. that was the first day to pass new sweeping abortion restrictions after the supreme court returned roe v. wade. a judge has now temporarily halted those new restrictions. joining me now is what indiana state representative maureen bauer. state representative bauer, thank you so much for joining us this evening. i wanted to play a clip of your passionate floor speech from last month about your state's abortion ban. >> from every corner of this state, people are demanding that their voices be heard by this legislature. to demand equal rights under the law, to have the same control over their body that is guaranteed to any man in
indiana. >> talk to us a little bit about your reaction to your state's abortion ban. it obviously moved you. it touched you, and i just want you to expand on that for us. >> we were the first state, as you mentioned, to enact a ban on abortion, through the state legislature. this was overwhelmingly unpopular in the state of indiana. medical doctors first spoke up during the pandemic to defend public health measures, when the republican controlled general assembly attempted to remove those protections that were in place, attempted to overstep, interfere with the medical communities ability to do their job. and so, this year again, we saw medical professionals return to the state house to defend their profession and reproductive health care access in the state of indiana. >> how concerned are you that indiana's abortion access will continue to be restricted?
>> well, because of the injunction that was granted by a republican judge, we are temporarily preventing the enforcement of that. that judge stated that the indiana constitution does protect your right to liberty, privacy, bodily autonomy. including protecting decisions about family planning and whether you carry a pregnancy to term. we will continue to wait for the final results of this ruling. the same reasons that were presented by medical professionals in the indiana general assembly, which cost taxpayers $240, 000, rolling back 50 years of women's rights, we still have an attorney general in the state of indiana, who states he will challenge
this ruling all the way up to the supreme court if necessary and with the taxpayer dollar. >> last month, political reported that ob/gyn's and other health care workers in your state actually came together to remove some of the harshest provisions from new york state abortion ban. it's an indication that they were becoming more politically involved in some way. were you surprised that these officials spoke up and were able to organize and spoke up the way that they did? >> i feel many of them felt like they had no choice. many of them are already considering moving out of state to continue to practice law. and senate and roll act one is specifically designed to punish doctors. it not only takes away the decision-making power from the patient, but also from the doctor. and that is from the state with the third highest maternal maher
mortality rate, where 33 of our counties are considered maternity care deserts. and we have further that divide between those who have access to reproductive health care and those who do not. and that is harsher and impacts of rural indiana and women of color, who continue to face those barriers to care and further prevent our ability to attract and retain medical professionals in indiana. >> all right, maureen bauer, state representative from the great state of indiana, thank you so much for your time this evening. it seems more and more russians have finally had enough of the war in ukraine. the message they are sending to vladimir putin, next. age-related macular degeneration may lead to severe vision loss. and if you're taking a multivitamin alone, you may be missing a critical piece. preservision. preservision areds 2 contains the only clinically proven nutrient formula recommended by the national eye institute to help reduce the risk of moderate to advanced amd progression. "preservision is backed by 20 years of clinical studies" "and its from the eye experts at bausch and lomb" so, ask your doctor about adding preservision. and fill in a missing piece of your plan. like i did with preservision" ♪♪
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war to end on just terms. on terms we all signed up for. but you cannot seize a nation's territory by force. the only country standing in the way of that is russia. so, we, each of us in this body, must be clear, firm, and unwavering in our resolve. >> that was president biden at the un general assembly this week after ukrainian forces recaptured nearly all of the kharkiv region, forcing russian troops to retreat. vladimir putin has moved to mobilize as many as 300,000 military reservists, a move john kirby described as a definite sign that russia is struggling. and the people of russia, in large numbers, do not seem to be on board with the changing nature of this war.
in fact, flights out of russia are skyrocketing and prices, after putin's call to mobilize troops. direct flights from countries from moscow to countries that don't require visas to enter, including turkey, azerbaijan, and armenia, have reportedly been sold out for the last few days. let's bring in our panel this evening. former obama white house senior director and advisers -- former u.s. ambassador to russia and a international affairs analyst -- and richard stengel former public diplomacy and public affairs and and and bc -- there are no three better people to talk to about all that is happening right now on the world stage. i will start with you. do you think putin's threats and actions indicate that he knows he is struggling? >> it is hard to argue otherwise that he is struggling, given what we have seen, was supposed to be a shock and awe
campaign in ukraine has now extended through several months. the challenge is that putin does not have an easy way out, other than giving up, and his ego will not allow him to do that. so, he is now instituting a draft that is hopefully, from a western perspective, going to bring some of the russian popular position to bear to try to curb putin's enthusiasm for taking over ukraine. >> ambassador, you know russia better than anyone. talk about the significance of these russian protest right now, the number of people we are seeing trying to get out of the country. and what does that tell you about the growing dissent within russia towards this war? >> first, remember, putin promised that this would not happen. he said that there would be no partial mobilization, national mobilization. this was just a special military operation. because of the way the war has gone against him, he has been compelled to do this. he never wanted to do it. he knew there would be resistance.
and now we are seeing that resistance. the greatest set of protests we have seen since the beginning of the war. and this time, however, it is not just the liberal opposition and the big capitals are protesting, it is much more widespread. because the mobilization is much more widespread. and i think it is just the beginning of more and more dissent to come. >> rick, you have 740 people that have been detained since these protests began. this is a country that has been ruled, you know, by an iron fist, lack of freedoms. here, we are seeing these people risk their lives, so to speak, and take a stand to leave the country and take a stand and it is significant. >> yes. russian mothers love their sons just like mothers here do. and i think we also have to note that it is inspiring to see russians protesting. it's not like here, where we are protected by free speech and free demonstrations. russia has effectively criminalized protests. so, people are risking their
lives, risking their livelihoods, because it's an existential issue for them. it's their sons. as mike said, the trend line is bad. this is the largest mobilization in russia since world war ii, and by the way, in world war ii, they sacrificed millions and millions of young men for the same idea of nationalism that putin is citing now. >> ambassador, putin is reportedly giving orders from moscow to battlefield generals. it is reportedly causing some confusion and dysfunction. and it seems that he is trying to literally take control of military strategy. as you mentioned, this was not the way this war was supposed to play out. but again, it must be extremely alarming that he is now being this involved, so to speak, in the actual military operations, if the generals can get the job done. >> again, go back to february. putin promise that this would be a cakewalk. it would be easy. they will be greeted as liberators.
they were going to take kyiv, the capital, in a matter of days. seven months in, it is the exact opposite of that. there is a lot of finger pointing going on inside moscow. i suspect there's a lot more than we even know about. and so, this is putin's response, fire a general in charge of logistics and become more hands on. >> where do you think vladimir putin goes from here? what does the west do as it reads the battlefield? and the dynamics that are right now at least, appear to be in ukraine's favor? >> let's be honest. the united states did not provide billions of dollars of aid and military equipment and training to take the war to russia. ultimately, the united states and nato allies are making it so that the ukrainians can hold their own and have a solid defence and insurgency. the challenge and slipping, there is no real determinant for how this war gets one. the united states and other allies have been focusing on a containment policy to make sure this doesn't spread throughout
the rest of europe. it does not become a nuclear war. that is something that putin is threatening. it is leverage that he has. whether or not he can spook allies into getting the ukrainians to fold or to give up. we don't see any signs of that. putin is certainly hurting at home. with the economy, now with the draft -- it remains to be seemed really if vladimir putin will ultimately blink and figure out a way to retreat. he can say that. he can say this war is over, i have one. that is what dictators can do. they can sell any narrative they want. ultimately, it is up to putin. >> rick, there is a school of thought that says a lot of knits trying to get to the winter, perhaps, with the cold temperatures and europe, there is an increased pressure that can be applied to europe. certainly countries like germany, which have dragged their feet by some accounts, in terms of how much they're actually helping ukrainians. what is your thinking about that? do you think vladimir putin is trying to buy time here with this call up of reservists? what do you think his strategy
is right now, if he has one? >> [laughs] there's a whole cottage industry of people trying to understand vladimir putin's motives and his decision-making. i am not sure he knows what's next. you know, the argument about germany feeling pressure from the cut off of russian oil, was more compelling a few weeks ago before ukraine began its comeback. now, the nato countries and the european countries are looking at a resurgent ukraine and a retreating putin. now, the cliché is that he is a cornered animal now and will be more dangerous. again, i don't even think he knows what he's going to do. he is in my estimation, a checkers player, not a chess player. and he is just reacting to events. >> he has not proven to be the master strategist that he had claimed to be early on. panel, play stick around. we have a lot more to discuss. i want to get your thoughts on one breakout speech from the un general assembly this year. (vo) with verizon, you can now get a private 5g network.
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just wrapped up a high-profile speech week. i would be the first to admit are often dull and diplomatically predictable. but each, or there is usually one or two speeches that speak truth to power and that challenge us to think critically about our world at our policies. perhaps to even helplessly our own blind spots. in 2019, it wasn't a world leader, but it was climate
activist greta thunberg who made headlines excoriating heads of state for their stance on climate change. this year, the newly elected president of columbia, gustavo petro, broke through all the stillness at the un and called out the west addiction to irrational power that he says is adding to the destruction of the amazon. >> [speaking spanish] distinguished delegates -- while you may play with it, the jungle, the climate, the pillar of the world is disappearing, along with all of its life. and enormous sponge absorbing planetary carbon it's evaporating. the savior jungle is seen in my country as the enemy to be defeated, as the weeds that must be pulled out.
the space of -- you let the jungle burn while hypocrites obliterate plants with poison to hide -- we are calling for more and more carbon. more and more oil. to console the other addiction, the addiction of consumption, power, money. climate disaster will kill hundreds of millions of people. and listen to this. it is not produced by the planet. it is produced by capital. the cause of climate disaster is capital. the logic of relating ourselves to consume more and more to produce more and more, and for some to earn more and more money, produces a climate disaster. >> let's bring back our panel. ric, let me get your reaction
to the president petros'speech there. put aside the differences. one, they have ideologically -- but the specific points that he was talking about, how the climate change problem has to do, not with just what is happening on the ground in places like the amazon, but how the west consumes and demands more and more oil and coal and production. >> well ayman, i think it is undeniable, as you said, he was speaking truth to power. the west consumption, and china's consumption, of fossil fuels and carbons, is increasing and you know, uses every tiny bit -- the other thing that i thought was powerful about his speech was a basically said, the war on drugs is a failure. it's harad to disagree with that as well. the definition of insanity if you keep doing the same thing over and over and expect a different result. we haven't had a different result. so, his policies of decriminalization and legalization are something that are worth trying.
>> ambassador, your thoughts on the presidents speech? >> i think it is important for him to talk about the diagnostics. i don't think many people would disagree about the diagnostics. i wish there was more of the solutions. it is not a north-south issue anymore, as rich has talked about. it is a global issue that requires cooperation from all countries, china included, india included, brazil included. we should talk about the prescriptions, not just the diagnostics. >> the global citizen festival, hosted house speaker nancy pelosi to speak about climate change. she was booed when she appeared on stage and look, mind you, this is a younger audience, perhaps an audience, that is much more into new with the climate crisis than older generations. but do you attribute this
younger generations -- >> absolutely. we still have elected members of government, who deny, actively deny, that climate change is a man-made problem or that climate change even exists. we've candidates running for senate now that says it is bad air coming from china. the challenge that we see with the united nations is there is no enforcing mechanism, so they can all agree that climate change is real. they can have a unified conference of parties and a convention that says, this is what our commitment individually as countries is going to be. but there is nothing to force. it's not legally binding. so, one president can sign on and then trump comes along and says, we just don't agree with this anymore, and the united states is no longer on track to be reducing its carbon footprints. with the president of columbia was also saying, was pointing to the rue causes not only of the drug war, but of the united states intervention throughout latin america, and ultimately, those are the root causes of why we are dealing with migration challenges.
it brings in full circle that the united states needs to pay attention to its actions and its own hemisphere, not just what is going on in ukraine. >> ambassador, let me play for you a comment from president biden and first lady jill biden that was actually delivered at the global citizens, touting the climate bill that he just signed last month. >> i apologize, ambassador, we don't seem to have that tape. but essentially, he touted the significance of that piece of legislation, which obviously we've been hearing a lot about, one of the most historic pieces of legislation to come out of the u.s., actually, globally in its fight against climate change. the question is, does it go far enough? >> it is not one of the most historic, it is the most historic bill ever passed in the united states of america, to try to deal with climate change. we should congratulate president biden and congratulate his team and the congress. and it doesn't go far enough. every climate change expert i
know, i teach at stanford, we've an army of people working on this. they say it is not enough. congratulations on the midterm. and now we need to get on to doing more to save the planet. >> rick, how do you address both of these? what the ambassador was saying and what -- which is, you need to get the world to buy into this and it doesn't seem that some parts of the world are not listening. america can do whatever it wants in terms of fighting climate change. but if you are not getting other countries to buy in, climate change is still going to be a problem that will destroy our planet. >> yes. even the paris climate accord from a few years ago, where we secretary kerry my old boss got everyone to sign on. it is a voluntary thing. there is no enforcement mechanism, so look, the battle is an existential one. we need to keep fighting. it i wouldn't view some command and control but we still need to keep trying. >> we certainly do.